On hold for 8+ plus minutes - your call is very important

[Bob Noel]

Is anyone NOT ticked off at lockmart for failing to deliver contracted services?

I just love hearing how important my call is, all 15 times... :-(

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Dan Luke]

"Bob Noel" wrote:

> Is anyone NOT ticked off at lockmart for failing to deliver contracted
> services?
>
> I just love hearing how important my call is, all 15 times... :-(

Part of my planning for any trip nowadays is making sure I won't have to call
FeebleSlowService for *anything*.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
>
> Is anyone NOT ticked off at lockmart for failing to deliver contracted
> services?
>

I'm not.

[Bob Noel]

In article t>,
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote:

> > Is anyone NOT ticked off at lockmart for failing to deliver contracted
> > services?
>
> I'm not.

You don't mind the government pis^H^H^Hthrowing money away?

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
>
> You don't mind the government pis^H^H^Hthrowing money away?
>

That's what the government does.

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "SM" == Steven P McNicoll > writes:

SM> "Bob Noel" > wrote in
SM> message
SM> ...
>> You don't mind the government pis^H^H^Hthrowing money away?

SM> That's what the government does.

That's funny. When the government was running the FSS, things
worked. Now that private is running it, things suck.

--
Ambition is like a frog sitting on a Venus Flytrap. The flytrap
can bite and bite, but it won't bother the frog because it only
has little tiny plant teeth. But some other stuff could happen
and it could be like ambition.
- Jack Handey

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 02:40:17 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> wrote in
t>:

>
>I'm not.

Is that because your medical isn't current?

[Jay Honeck]

> That's funny. When the government was running the FSS, things
> worked. Now that private is running it, things suck.

We haven't experienced any trouble yet, here in Iowa.

However, they're closing our Fort Dodge Flight Service Station
tomorrow. THEN we'll be on "hold" with the rest of you guys.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>
> Is that because your medical isn't current?
>

It's because I don't use FSS. I don't know why anyone does.

[Bob Noel]

In article et>,
"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote:


> > Is that because your medical isn't current?
>
> It's because I don't use FSS.

That's a terrible not to be ticked off about lack of performance.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

On Jul 1, 6:26 am, Bob Noel >
wrote:
>
> That's a terrible not to be ticked off about lack of performance.
>

I do not understand that sentence.

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-01 06:55:00 -0700, "Steven P. McNicoll"
> said:

> On Jul 1, 6:26 am, Bob Noel >
> wrote:
>>
>> That's a terrible not to be ticked off about lack of performance.
>>
>
> I do not understand that sentence.

Bad Engrish. :-)
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Denny]

Go to DUATS, brief, file, fly...

denny

[Gene Seibel]

On Jul 1, 6:26 am, Bob Noel >
wrote:
> In article et>,
> "Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote:
>
> > > Is that because your medical isn't current?
>
> > It's because I don't use FSS.
>
> That's a terrible not to be ticked off about lack of performance.
>
> --
> Bob Noel
> (goodness, please trim replies!!!)

That one got trimmed a bit too much. ;)
--
Gene Seibel
Hangar 131 - http://pad39a.com/gene/plane.html
Because I fly, I envy no one.

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Denny" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> Go to DUATS, brief, file, fly...
>
Quite!

I wonder how many of these folks still use an operator for long distance
calls.


--
Matt Barrow
Performance Homes, LLC.
Cheyenne, WY

[BT]

and online DUATS was screwed up Saturday morning.

BT

"Bob Noel" > wrote in message
...
> Is anyone NOT ticked off at lockmart for failing to deliver contracted
> services?
>
> I just love hearing how important my call is, all 15 times... :-(
>
> --
> Bob Noel
> (goodness, please trim replies!!!)
>

[Ron Natalie]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Is that because your medical isn't current?
>>
>
> It's because I don't use FSS. I don't know why anyone does.
>
>
As soon as they pull the plug on DUAT, you won't have any
choice other than to go grovelling to LockMart if you want
to submit flightplans (unless you're going to do them from
your ATC facility).

[Ron Natalie]

Denny wrote:
> Go to DUATS, brief, file, fly...
>
> denny
>
If the government stays the course, DUAT's days are numbered
in favor of LockMart's web service.

[Ron Natalie]

Saturday we're flying home. Forecasts and current weather and
looking out the window looks like reasonable VFR at KSUT shifting
to typical 5 miles in haze but otherwise clear further north torwards
home, so Margy flies. Within 30 minutes we're under a 1200' overcast
and we decide to land, swap seats, and go IFR (I'm instrument rated,
she isn't). Popped into the FBO and dialed FSS. What do you want
"BRIEFER" what state "NORTH CAROLINA" ... please wait.

Get my computer out and power it up (it's got a cell phone wireless
card) to see if I could get DUAT faster. It was about a tie.
It only took another 10 minutes to get the guy to figure out why
the computer refused to take the route I wanted (using the wrong
ID for Flat Rock, something that I would have avoided on DUAT as
the flight planner does that for me).

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>
> As soon as they pull the plug on DUAT, you won't have any
> choice other than to go grovelling to LockMart if you want
> to submit flightplans (unless you're going to do them from
> your ATC facility).
>

Why would they pull the plug on DUAT?

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>
> If the government stays the course, DUAT's days are numbered
> in favor of LockMart's web service.
>

What course would that be?

[skym]

How long do you all think it will be before we have to give Lockmart
our credit card number before receiving any service?

[Ron Natalie]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
> m...
>> If the government stays the course, DUAT's days are numbered
>> in favor of LockMart's web service.
>>
>
> What course would that be?
>

To not modify the contract with LM that includes the
Internet FSS portal and not renew the DUAT contracts.

>

[Ron Natalie]

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
> "Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
> m...
>> As soon as they pull the plug on DUAT, you won't have any
>> choice other than to go grovelling to LockMart if you want
>> to submit flightplans (unless you're going to do them from
>> your ATC facility).
>>
>
> Why would they pull the plug on DUAT?
>
>
Because they've contracted with LockMart for web-based
services that are redundant to that.

http://www.generalaviationnews.com/editorial/articledetail.lasso?-token.key=14497&-token.src=index&-nothing

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>
> To not modify the contract with LM that includes the
> Internet FSS portal and not renew the DUAT contracts.
>

Not renewing the contracts with the present providers of DUAT does not mean
there won't be DUAT.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
>
> Because they've contracted with LockMart for web-based
> services that are redundant to that.
>

Which means DUAT will go on.

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "SM" == Steven P McNicoll > writes:
>> If the government stays the course, DUAT's days are numbered
>> in favor of LockMart's web service.

SM> What course would that be?

To turn everything over to private, because private is so much more
efficient and delivers much better service. I just wish they'd
outsource the presidency. Oh wait, they did, to the VP and the
right-wing religious ayatollahs.

--
I have always found that plans are useless, but planning is
indispensable.
Dwight Eisenhower

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bob Fry" > wrote in message
...
>
> To turn everything over to private, because private is so much more
> efficient and delivers much better service.
>

Excellent. The private sector has been providing better service than FSS
for years.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bob Fry" > wrote in message
...
>
> That's funny. When the government was running the FSS, things
> worked. Now that private is running it, things suck.
>

When the government was running FSS it worked, but it didn't work as well as
DUAT and it cost considerably more. A better alternative to contracting FSS
would have been eliminating FSS.

[Andrew Gideon]

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:25:54 -0700, Matt Barrow wrote:

>> Go to DUATS, brief, file, fly...
>>
> Quite!

If every little airport had a decent Internet connection, I'd agree.

Well...not entirely. Pre-changeover I'd some very educational
conversations with FSS about weather in this area or that. DUATS doesn't
do that.

- Andrew

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "SM" == Steven P McNicoll > writes:

SM> A better
SM> alternative to contracting FSS would have been eliminating
SM> FSS.

Who ya gonna call when you're airborne? Gotta get weather 'n stuff
with your trusty com radio...

--
Alas, to wear the mantle of Galileo it is not enough that you be
persecuted by an unkind establishment, you must also be right.
Bob Park

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
>> "Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Is that because your medical isn't current?
>>>
>>
>> It's because I don't use FSS. I don't know why anyone does.
> As soon as they pull the plug on DUAT, you won't have any
> choice other than to go grovelling to LockMart if you want
> to submit flightplans (unless you're going to do them from
> your ATC facility).

Ever heard of WSI, WxWorx, Jeppesen, (and a few others)?

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:25:54 -0700, Matt Barrow wrote:
>
>>> Go to DUATS, brief, file, fly...
>>>
>> Quite!
>
> If every little airport had a decent Internet connection, I'd agree.
>
> Well...not entirely. Pre-changeover I'd some very educational
> conversations with FSS about weather in this area or that. DUATS doesn't
> do that.
>

There's always one more excuse not to cut the umbilical.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Bob Fry" > wrote in message
...
>
> Who ya gonna call when you're airborne? Gotta get weather 'n stuff
> with your trusty com radio...
>

XM weather

[Blanche]

And remember, the DUATS contracts are up next year. Guess who
is looking like the front runner to get the new contract?

[Blanche]

Bob Fry > wrote:
>>>>>> "SM" == Steven P McNicoll > writes:
> >> If the government stays the course, DUAT's days are numbered
> >> in favor of LockMart's web service.
>
> SM> What course would that be?
>
>To turn everything over to private, because private is so much more
>efficient and delivers much better service. I just wish they'd
>outsource the presidency. Oh wait, they did, to the VP and the
>right-wing religious ayatollahs.

(*spit take*)

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Blanche" wrote:

> And remember, the DUATS contracts are up next year. Guess who
> is looking like the front runner to get the new contract?

Aw, jeez; don't tell me...


--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Blanche wrote:
> And remember, the DUATS contracts are up next year. Guess who
> is looking like the front runner to get the new contract?


Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

I LIKE DUATS! Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Not Lockmart!

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jun 30, 9:36 pm, Bob Fry > wrote:
> >>>>> "SM" == Steven P McNicoll > writes:
>
> SM> "Bob Noel" > wrote in
> SM> message
> ...
> >> You don't mind the government pis^H^H^Hthrowing money away?
>
> SM> That's what the government does.
>
> That's funny. When the government was running the FSS, things
> worked. Now that private is running it, things suck.

Not sure how you define "worked", but a FSS briefing by a gov't
employee probably cost more than $50/briefing if you add the entire
cost of running the FSS system for briefings. If that "works" then I
guess you can say it "worked".

-Robert

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jun 30, 9:36 pm, Bob Fry > wrote:
>> >>>>> "SM" == Steven P McNicoll > writes:
>>
>> SM> "Bob Noel" > wrote in
>> SM> message
>> ...
>> >> You don't mind the government pis^H^H^Hthrowing money away?
>>
>> SM> That's what the government does.
>>
>> That's funny. When the government was running the FSS, things
>> worked. Now that private is running it, things suck.
>
> Not sure how you define "worked", but a FSS briefing by a gov't
> employee probably cost more than $50/briefing if you add the entire
> cost of running the FSS system for briefings. If that "works" then I
> guess you can say it "worked".

Someone here (Newps?) pointed out that gas taxes by GA pays about one-fourth
of the costs of FSS.

FSS gets updated information how often? WSI, Jepp, etc. use info updated
continuously.

Given all that, there's something fishy going on at LockMart if they can't
perform better than they have been. Who is providing oversight? How many of
us would tolerate that kind of performance from other industries?

[Ron Natalie]

Matt Barrow wrote:

> FSS gets updated information how often? WSI, Jepp, etc. use info updated
> continuously.
>
The government got pretty much the same data sources as everybody else.
The NOAA generated stuff comes directly. A lot of the processed
maps are actually procured from the same commercial providers.

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Matt Barrow wrote:
>
>> FSS gets updated information how often? WSI, Jepp, etc. use info updated
>> continuously.
>>
> The government got pretty much the same data sources as everybody else.

Nope. WSI, for one, updates with direct feeds, and FSS updates their main
data only at the default time frames. That's why airlines and corporate
operators don't use them. The extended reason they don't is that a
miscalculation can cost them big $$$.

> The NOAA generated stuff comes directly. A lot of the processed maps
> are actually procured from the same commercial providers.

Generally yes, but not exclusively. (See above abour airlines and corporate
operators).

IIRC, WX has invested a lot in processing more frequently updated data.

[Andrew Gideon]

On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 09:38:29 -0700, Matt Barrow wrote:


>> The government got pretty much the same data sources as everybody else.
>
> Nope. WSI, for one, updates with direct feeds, and FSS updates their main
> data only at the default time frames. That's why airlines and corporate
> operators don't use them. The extended reason they don't is that a
> miscalculation can cost them big $$$.

I was talking to someone at the [I think] Bridgeport FSS (I was on Cape
Cod) a couple of days ago. He was using WSI (or so he said).

- Andrew

[Andrew Gideon]

On Mon, 02 Jul 2007 20:12:10 -0700, Matt Barrow wrote:

> There's always one more excuse not to cut the umbilical.

There's always one more excuse to avoid making a mistake. Sadly, too many
get made anyway. Don't you think it a little worrisome when you have to
start ignoring reasons why something is a bad idea?

BTW, I did forget about talking to people from the air (ie. for making
PIREPs). Unless DUATS is made a *lot* smarter...

- Andrew