dream time

[bagmaker]

OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to fire up the dreams machine.

What ship, down to 3 options-

ASH26E
304S with Jet sustainer
Antares 20E

Which is your choice and why?

bagger

[neil@avon=tech=solutions.co.nz]

> Antares 20E

Because I'm a power electronics engineer and am very impressed with
the application of the electronics and software technology.

--
Cheers
Neil

[Mal[_4_]]

"bagmaker" > wrote in message
...
>
> OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to
> fire up the dreams machine.
>
> What ship, down to 3 options-
>
> ASH26E
> 304S with Jet sustainer
> Antares 20E
>
> Which is your choice and why?
>
> bagger
>
>
>
>
> --
> bagmaker
Do I get to fly it ! or is it for you.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 8, 4:14 am, bagmaker >
wrote:
> OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to
> fire up the dreams machine.
>
> What ship, down to 3 options-
>
> ASH26E
> 304S with Jet sustainer
> Antares 20E
>
> Which is your choice and why?
>
> bagger
>
> --
> bagmaker

Antares 20E. I flew it once, had to have it.
Got mine a few months ago and it is spectacular.
Handling (faster roll than some 15-meter ships).
Performance (haven't yet been out-climbed, and
run is fantastic). Assemble, tape, preflight, close
up trailer in 35 minutes, solo. Taxi easily, run the
motor until first turn in a thermal, shut down and
climb-out without fright. Easy in-air restart if
I shut the motor down too soon, or need to avoid
meeting farmers. No gas fumes, plug it in
overnight to recharge (though I've never had
mine below about 65% full).

Most recent flight here (yes, I shut down a
bit too soon and ran the motor a second time
before heading out). Its slow, but a windy day
with a narrow height-band in New England:
http://www3.onlinecontest.org/olc-2.0/gliding/flightinfo.html?flightId=1612710313

Wish I had more time to fly it !
See ya, Dave "YO"

[Gary Emerson]

bagmaker wrote:
> OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to
> fire up the dreams machine.
>
> What ship, down to 3 options-
>
> ASH26E
> 304S with Jet sustainer
> Antares 20E
>
> Which is your choice and why?
>
> bagger
>
>
>
>
Why not include a Ventus 2CxM?

[Tony Verhulst]

> No gas fumes, plug it in
> overnight to recharge...

Just curious Dave, just what are the input voltage/current requirements?
Would U.S. owners have to run 240 out to their garage?

Tony V.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 8, 9:02 am, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
> > No gas fumes, plug it in overnight to recharge...
>
> Just curious Dave, just what are the input voltage/current requirements?
> Would U.S. owners have to run 240 out to their garage?
>
> Tony V.

I recharge on 110v (though 220v also works).
Are you impressed watching the take-off performance Tony ?

[Tony Verhulst]

> I recharge on 110v (though 220v also works).
> Are you impressed watching the take-off performance Tony ?

I was impressed with your altitude when you passed the "trailer park" at
the other end of the field. Much higher than the Pawnees pulling
unballasted ships. And, yes, it was quiet. I also liked the engineering,
like having the tail wheel *on* the rudder - elegance in simplicity and
it makes it easy to taxi. I assume that the rudder and hinges are a bit
more heavy duty that on your typical 15 meter ship.

Tony V. LS6-b "6N"
(no commercial affiliation)

[[email protected]]

On Jul 8, 9:43 am, Tony Verhulst > wrote:
> > I recharge on 110v (though 220v also works).
> > Are you impressed watching the take-off performance Tony ?
>
> I was impressed with your altitude when you passed the "trailer park" at
> the other end of the field. Much higher than the Pawnees pulling
> unballasted ships. And, yes, it was quiet. I also liked the engineering,
> like having the tail wheel *on* the rudder - elegance in simplicity and
> it makes it easy to taxi. I assume that the rudder and hinges are a bit
> more heavy duty that on your typical 15 meter ship.
>
> Tony V. LS6-b "6N"
> (no commercial affiliation)

Steering with this rudder-integrated tailwheel is easy and precise.
Quite a bit of structure inside to support it. IIRC the LS-9 had this
feature; I don't know if there are earlier designs with this.

[Eric Greenwell]

bagmaker wrote:
> OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to
> fire up the dreams machine.
>
> What ship, down to 3 options-
>
> ASH26E
> 304S with Jet sustainer
> Antares 20E
>
> Which is your choice and why?

What kind of flying do you hope to do?

If it's safaris, that might favor the ASH26E, because the 304S sustainer
needs a tow and the Antares needs electricity and has much more limited
motoring range.

If most of your flying is where and when a tow is readily available,
that would favor the lighter, simpler, cheaper sustainer.

If it's mostly from an airport with access to electricity and long
powered retrieves aren't important, that would favor the Antares.

Contest flying? The classes you can fly in will be determined by the
glider you choose; e.g., no 18 M if you get the Antares.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
* Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
* "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
* "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Markus Graeber]

I'd add the new 18m Jonkers JS-1 Revelation to that list. It'll come
as a jet sustainer and conventional self launcher as well, it would
definitely be on my short list. The Antares now comes in a dedicated
18m version as well, but only with a conventional Solo sustainer
engine as option. If I understand it correctly the 304S Shark comes
with a jet self launch option (not jet sustainer) and a conventional
Solo based sustainer option.

Markus

[Tim Mara]

304S also has the typical power plants for self launch if anyone wants
them....same as S-H, AS or DG.....
Jet is far more interesting, likely more reliable than any of the other
options.....and has plenty of power for self launching but needs a boost to
get initial movement.(short auto tow)...will not be certified therefore as a
self launcher
tim

"Eric Greenwell" > wrote in message
news:Yiaki.6226$t05.3592@trndny09...
> bagmaker wrote:
>> OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to
>> fire up the dreams machine.
>>
>> What ship, down to 3 options-
>>
>> ASH26E
>> 304S with Jet sustainer
>> Antares 20E
>>
>> Which is your choice and why?
>
> What kind of flying do you hope to do?
>
> If it's safaris, that might favor the ASH26E, because the 304S sustainer
> needs a tow and the Antares needs electricity and has much more limited
> motoring range.
>
> If most of your flying is where and when a tow is readily available, that
> would favor the lighter, simpler, cheaper sustainer.
>
> If it's mostly from an airport with access to electricity and long powered
> retrieves aren't important, that would favor the Antares.
>
> Contest flying? The classes you can fly in will be determined by the
> glider you choose; e.g., no 18 M if you get the Antares.
>
> --
> Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA
> * Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly
> * "Transponders in Sailplanes" http://tinyurl.com/y739x4
> * "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation" at www.motorglider.org

[Bill Daniels]

"Tim Mara" > wrote in message
...
> 304S also has the typical power plants for self launch if anyone wants
> them....same as S-H, AS or DG.....
> Jet is far more interesting, likely more reliable than any of the other
> options.....and has plenty of power for self launching but needs a boost
> to get initial movement.(short auto tow)...will not be certified therefore
> as a self launcher
> tim

A return to bungee launch?

[bagmaker]

wow! Hit a sweet spot here!

Ok, I dont know why the Ventus isnt on the list, its a dream list and not a dream ship (reaching for flame suit)
Cost is an issue with the Antares, but hey ,we are dreaming.
Safari style touring is the aim, I cant imagine too much trouble in finding a AC socket every couple of days would be a struggle on any safari, even if it means U Hiring a genset on the field. 20m is restrictive for competition, having to compete with open class, although if it handles as well as told, should be good. How is it in light conditions with the "permanent" higher wing loading?
I would admit the JS1 Revelation to be near the hit list, although it looks a tad tight cockpit wise and both it and the company remain unproven.
Both the JS1 and the shark 304 would be a great thing jet assisted, I cant wait for that!

What other options do we come up with for assisting the assist for self launch?
Electric wheel motor?
Clockspring wheel? (maybe it can be wound up!!!)


thanks in advance

bagger

Yes Mal, you can fly it

[[email protected]]

On Jul 8, 3:14 am, bagmaker >
wrote:
> OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to
> fire up the dreams machine.
>
> What ship, down to 3 options-
>
> ASH26E
> 304S with Jet sustainer
> Antares 20E
>
> Which is your choice and why?
>
> bagger
>
> --
> bagmaker

i need some turbine time so its the 304S for me

[bumper]

"bagmaker" > wrote in message
...
>
> OK all, its cold (with an F), wet and dreary here in Oz, and time to
> fire up the dreams machine.
>
> What ship, down to 3 options-
>
> ASH26E
> 304S with Jet sustainer
> Antares 20E
>
> Which is your choice and why?
>
> bagger
> --
> bagmaker

Second Eric Greenwell's response and add:

Of the 3 ships you list, I'd pick either the 20E or ASH26E depending on the
mission.

I was very impressed with the engineering and thought that went into the
Antares when I saw Dave's ship at the SSA convention. I've owned an ASH26E
for almost 5 years and am delighted with it. The Wankel power plant is
turbine smooth and has been 100% reliable, no breakdowns, failure to start,
or overheating. I made the decision to buy the 26E after discussing build
quality with Larry Mansberger and others who maintain and work on gliders.

bumper

--
bumper ZZ (reverse all after @)>
"Dare to be different . . . circle in sink."
Quiet Vent and MKII Yaw String

[bagmaker]

The reason the Ventus, ASG variants and similar craft are not on a dream list (of mine) is the engine.
2 strokes should be restricted to lawn mowers, simple as that.
The simplicity, weight and size of a turbine is the main drawcard, noise and low-speed (self-launch) power are the downers.
The Antares will improve both in pricing and electrical complexity/longevity if the company is supported - sales would indicate it will be- and we can all see that self-launch will be the way to fly eventually.


still dreaming..............


bagger

[Bruce]

bagmaker wrote:
> wow! Hit a sweet spot here!
>
> Ok, I dont know why the Ventus isnt on the list, its a dream list and
> not a dream ship (reaching for flame suit)
> Cost is an issue with the Antares, but hey ,we are dreaming.
> Safari style touring is the aim, I cant imagine too much trouble in
> finding a AC socket every couple of days would be a struggle on any
> safari, even if it means U Hiring a genset on the field. 20m is
> restrictive for competition, having to compete with open class,
> although if it handles as well as told, should be good. How is it in
> light conditions with the "permanent" higher wing loading?
> I would admit the JS1 Revelation to be near the hit list, although it
> looks a tad tight cockpit wise and both it and the company remain
> unproven.
Jonker Company has been around for years, and is very slick. Uys and Attie run a
tight ship, as well as building a not so tight ship. I fit, at 1.86m and 110kg.
So -as for a tight cockpit - that would be "negative mate" if you saw the guys
with built in ballast who have flown and ordered the JS1...
Performance wise it is also up with the rest. The self launcher is not available
yet though all hulls are being built with the necessary structure to allow retrofit.

There will apparently be at least one, probably two JS1s at the GP in Omarama -
hop over and take a personal look.

> Both the JS1 and the shark 304 would be a great thing jet assisted, I
> cant wait for that!
>
> What other options do we come up with for assisting the assist for self
> launch?
> Electric wheel motor?
> Clockspring wheel? (maybe it can be wound up!!!)
>
>
> thanks in advance
>
> bagger
>
> Yes Mal, you can fly it
>
>
>
>

[Bruce]

Talking dreams -

Assuming that we are talking a SLMG.

I wonder whether it is not a better idea to go for a two seat self-launcher. Any
experiences?

Pro -
you can take more stuff as baggage if you are alone.
You can take company with if you want to.
The performance should be similar to similar wingspan single seaters.

Con -
Heavier, and more expensive.
More instruments, parachutes etc to maintain.
Harder to sell?
People will pester you about the "wasted" seat when you want to fly alone.

Thoughts?

bagmaker wrote:
> wow! Hit a sweet spot here!
>
> Ok, I dont know why the Ventus isnt on the list, its a dream list and
> not a dream ship (reaching for flame suit)
> Cost is an issue with the Antares, but hey ,we are dreaming.
> Safari style touring is the aim, I cant imagine too much trouble in
> finding a AC socket every couple of days would be a struggle on any
> safari, even if it means U Hiring a genset on the field. 20m is
> restrictive for competition, having to compete with open class,
> although if it handles as well as told, should be good. How is it in
> light conditions with the "permanent" higher wing loading?
> I would admit the JS1 Revelation to be near the hit list, although it
> looks a tad tight cockpit wise and both it and the company remain
> unproven.
> Both the JS1 and the shark 304 would be a great thing jet assisted, I
> cant wait for that!
>
> What other options do we come up with for assisting the assist for self
> launch?
> Electric wheel motor?
> Clockspring wheel? (maybe it can be wound up!!!)
>
>
> thanks in advance
>
> bagger
>
> Yes Mal, you can fly it
>
>
>
>

[bagmaker]

I dont know why a 2 seater doesnt appeal to me, it just doesnt! The new AS ship sounds like an updated ASH25 which may make it to a dream list although I believe only a single seater does it for me.

The JS1 at Jonkers needs more information out there, listing is deferred until later.

Now a question between the two front runners-
Is the Antares more than twice the aircraft than a 304 shark?
For $100k you could throw a lot of beer towards a lot of wing runners to get you moving, less than 5 points of glide slope between them AND a metre less wingspan to annoy you.

I suppose it is like comparing a daewoo to a BMW, some may point out they both have an engine, 4 wheels and a stereo, why pay the huge price difference? We glider pilots are notoriosly tight with our dollars,

Got to be good sales people over at Lange....



bagger

[[email protected]]

On Jul 22, 11:22 pm, bagmaker >
wrote:
> I dont know why a 2 seater doesnt appeal to me, it just doesnt! The new
> AS ship sounds like an updated ASH25 which may make it to a dream list
> although I believe only a single seater does it for me.
>
> The JS1 at Jonkers needs more information out there, listing is
> deferred until later.
>
> Now a question between the two front runners-
> Is the Antares more than twice the aircraft than a 304 shark?
> For $100k you could throw a lot of beer towards a lot of wing runners
> to get you moving, less than 5 points of glide slope between them AND a
> metre less wingspan to annoy you.
>
> I suppose it is like comparing a daewoo to a BMW, some may point out
> they both have an engine, 4 wheels and a stereo, why pay the huge price
> difference? We glider pilots are notoriosly tight with our dollars,
>
> Got to be good sales people over at Lange....
>
> bagger
>
> --
> bagmaker

The Antares 20E doesn't have to be just a dream -
Get a partner or two !

Most gliders sit unused a good chunk of the
time anyway, what with people's busy lives.
Sure its more expensive, but you don't need a tug,
won't annoy the neighbors, and won't require crew.

Of course, I'm biased !
Best Regards, Dave "YO"