Come see us at Oshkosh

[[email protected]]

I posted earlier in response to a message from Jay Honeck telling him
to come by our booth at Oshkosh and say high, not meaning to make a
public announcement about a new product we are introducing at Oshkosh,
but it was quickly noticed by others and I was told I was being coy.
I just didn't want to be accused of spamming the group. Well, I
guess I'll take those coy comments as an invitation to post an
announcement:

AeroLEDs is introducing a new high intensity LED wing-tip landing/
recognition light at Oshkosh 2007. If you are interested in seeing
it, come by space 413 in the north aircraft area. We will have them
mounted on a Red/White/Blue Kitfox series 7 that has an eagle graphic
on the tail. Our website is http://www.aeroleds.com

We are just getting our first batch of production units done this week
(without the last minute, would anything ever get done?) and will have
product at the show.

I believe that this is the first product of this type available on the
market. HID landing lights have been the only competition with
Halogen up to this point.

Dean

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:20:49 -0700, wrote in
om>:

>
>AeroLEDs is introducing a new high intensity LED wing-tip landing/
>recognition light at Oshkosh 2007.


http://www.aeroleds.com/products.html
The AeroSun is a wing-mounted LED (Light Emitting Diode) landing
light with a built-in wig wag mode in addition to its standard
operation as a landing/taxi light. The AeroSun is a very intense
light source that uses 8 high power LEDs to produce over 1200
lumens of light using 24 Watts of power.

Each AeroSun light uses less than half the power of an equivalent
halogen light while producing more usable light. The LED light
sources last up to 50,000 hours of constant operation, so you will
never have to replace this light once it has been installed. It
will outlast both Halogen and HID lamps.

Each individual light sells for $500.00, or a pair can be
purchased for $850.00.


The standard early Cherokee landing light is a #4509 (13 volts). It
is a PAR36 sealed beam lamp with a tungsten filament (C6) rated at 100
watts with an average rated "lab life" of 25 hours, and initial
maximum beam candlepower of ~110,000. About $10/each from the source
below.

There is also a Quartz equivalent lamp #Q4509 with the same
specifications except a 100 hour life and 140,000 candlepower.

Wholesale pricing:

SUNRAY LIGHTING INC.
1 Whatney
Irvine, CA 92618
(949) 452-0900
(USA) 800-8-LIGHTS
FAX "TOLL FREE" (800) 255-3141

http://sunraylighting.com/

Now:

CANDELA CORPORATION
14420 Myford Rd. Suite 100
Irvine, CA 92606
800-722-6068 West
800-922-9226 East
FAX 800-443-1460 West
FAX 800-822-8226 East




The competition:

http://www.speedmods.com/Boom_Beam/boom_beam_systems.htm
HID Landing / Taxi / Recognition / Ice Lighting for Aircraft

These systems are available in 14 and 28 volt versions with
pricing from $948.

Tested to DO-160D
FAA/PMA Approved Parts
Five-Year Warranty
Up to 5X the candlepower of standard lights
No filament to break

Over 500,000 candle power.
5 times brighter than a 100 watt sealed beam light.
PAR 46 (5 3/4" reflector) or PAR 36 (4 1/2" reflector)
PAR 56, PAR 64 (with adapter plate)
Now Available in both Landing and Taxi versions!
New Rectangular wing lights.
Metal Halide - Xenon - High Intensity Discharge Light System.
Very white light (like the new Lexus, Porsche, Mercury
Headlights).
The light is close to daylight color.
Warranty includes Lamp burnout
Can be left on continuously, 5,000 Hour Bulb Life
Reduces load on alternator, system uses less than 3 amps at 14
volts and less than 1.4 amps at 28 volts.

[[email protected]]

On Jul 12, 10:26 am, Larry Dighera > wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:20:49 -0700, wrote in
> om>:
>
>
>
> >AeroLEDs is introducing a new high intensity LED wing-tip landing/
> >recognition light at Oshkosh 2007.
>
> http://www.aeroleds.com/products.html
> The AeroSun is a wing-mounted LED (Light Emitting Diode) landing
> light with a built-in wig wag mode in addition to its standard
> operation as a landing/taxi light. The AeroSun is a very intense
> light source that uses 8 high power LEDs to produce over 1200
> lumens of light using 24 Watts of power.
>
> Each AeroSun light uses less than half the power of an equivalent
> halogen light while producing more usable light. The LED light
> sources last up to 50,000 hours of constant operation, so you will
> never have to replace this light once it has been installed. It
> will outlast both Halogen and HID lamps.
>
> Each individual light sells for $500.00, or a pair can be
> purchased for $850.00.
>
> The standard early Cherokee landing light is a #4509 (13 volts). It
> is a PAR36 sealed beam lamp with a tungsten filament (C6) rated at 100
> watts with an average rated "lab life" of 25 hours, and initial
> maximum beam candlepower of ~110,000. About $10/each from the source
> below.
>
> There is also a Quartz equivalent lamp #Q4509 with the same
> specifications except a 100 hour life and 140,000 candlepower.
>
> Wholesale pricing:
>
> SUNRAY LIGHTING INC.
> 1 Whatney
> Irvine, CA 92618
> (949) 452-0900
> (USA) 800-8-LIGHTS
> FAX "TOLL FREE" (800) 255-3141
>
> http://sunraylighting.com/
>
> Now:
>
> CANDELA CORPORATION
> 14420 Myford Rd. Suite 100
> Irvine, CA 92606
> 800-722-6068 West
> 800-922-9226 East
> FAX 800-443-1460 West
> FAX 800-822-8226 East
>
>
> The competition:
>
> http://www.speedmods.com/Boom_Beam/boom_beam_systems.htm
> HID Landing / Taxi / Recognition / Ice Lighting for Aircraft
>
> These systems are available in 14 and 28 volt versions with
> pricing from $948.
>
> Tested to DO-160D
> FAA/PMA Approved Parts
> Five-Year Warranty
> Up to 5X the candlepower of standard lights
> No filament to break
>
> Over 500,000 candle power.
> 5 times brighter than a 100 watt sealed beam light.
> PAR 46 (5 3/4" reflector) or PAR 36 (4 1/2" reflector)
> PAR 56, PAR 64 (with adapter plate)
> Now Available in both Landing and Taxi versions!
> New Rectangular wing lights.
> Metal Halide - Xenon - High Intensity Discharge Light System.
> Very white light (like the new Lexus, Porsche, Mercury
> Headlights).
> The light is close to daylight color.
> Warranty includes Lamp burnout
> Can be left on continuously, 5,000 Hour Bulb Life
> Reduces load on alternator, system uses less than 3 amps at 14
> volts and less than 1.4 amps at 28 volts.

Candle power is lumens/steradian (solid angle). High candle power is
good for spotlighting something at a great distance, but at close
range it means you only light up a small area in the middle of the
runway. Candlepower is used for specsmanship, but doesn't really
convey how useful the light is. Our beam angle is a 10 degree cone.

For apples to apples comparison, Halogen lamps typically put out about
1000 lumens at 100W. HID lamps are about 3000 lumens at 35W. Our LED
light is over 1400 lumens at 24 Watts.

Dean

[Jay Honeck]

> AeroLEDs is introducing a new high intensity LED wing-tip landing/
> recognition light at Oshkosh 2007.

Dang it, Dean, you had me going for a while, but for two things:

- Non-certified. Can't use it in my plane.
- Price. $850 (for 2) buys a whole bunch of Q4509s.

Good luck with it, but methinks at that price you're not going to sell
too many to the (notoriously thrifty) experimental crowd -- but I hope
I'm wrong.

Get 'em down to $250 apiece, and you won't be able to build 'em fast
enough...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

On Jul 12, 11:38 am, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > AeroLEDs is introducing a new high intensity LED wing-tip landing/
> > recognition light at Oshkosh 2007.
>
> Dang it, Dean, you had me going for a while, but for two things:
>
> - Non-certified. Can't use it in my plane.
> - Price. $850 (for 2) buys a whole bunch of Q4509s.
>
> Good luck with it, but methinks at that price you're not going to sell
> too many to the (notoriously thrifty) experimental crowd -- but I hope
> I'm wrong.
>
> Get 'em down to $250 apiece, and you won't be able to build 'em fast
> enough...
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

$250 is pretty tough to accomplish. Maybe we will get there once we
have some volume, but its hard to get costs that low initially.

Landing lights don't have very tough certification requirements. With
DO-160E compliance, they can be pretty much installed with a field
approval. We are going to work with the FAA on this. We also will
have a round PAR36 compatible round light very soon (drop in
replacement).

With these lights, you can run your landing lights 100% of the time
day or night in wig-wag mode for recognition/visiblity to help reduce
your mid-air risk... You can't do that with conventional lights
unless you want to keep replacing them all the time.

[Jay Honeck]

> > Get 'em down to $250 apiece, and you won't be able to build 'em fast
> > enough...

> $250 is pretty tough to accomplish. Maybe we will get there once we
> have some volume, but its hard to get costs that low initially.

I know I'm hopelessly clueless about such things, but why would your
bank-of-LEDs-in-a-box cost so much more than (for example) the high-
intensity hand-held LED lantern I got for Xmas last year? It's got
an equal number of high-intensity LEDs, runs on batteries, and cost (I
think) about $25... (And it's bright as daylight...)

Educate me, please, because I don't get the differences between these
things.

Thanks,
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

On Jul 12, 12:20 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > > Get 'em down to $250 apiece, and you won't be able to build 'em fast
> > > enough...
> > $250 is pretty tough to accomplish. Maybe we will get there once we
> > have some volume, but its hard to get costs that low initially.
>
> I know I'm hopelessly clueless about such things, but why would your
> bank-of-LEDs-in-a-box cost so much more than (for example) the high-
> intensity hand-held LED lantern I got for Xmas last year? It's got
> an equal number of high-intensity LEDs, runs on batteries, and cost (I
> think) about $25... (And it's bright as daylight...)
>
> Educate me, please, because I don't get the differences between these
> things.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Jay,

The LEDs in that lantern are not as high output as the ones we are
using. We are using LEDs that cost over $3.00 each and can burn up to
3 Watts per LED. I seriously doubt the ones in your lantern come even
close to that. Even though it looks bright to you at night, I
guarantee it isn't putting out anywhere near what ours is doing. Come
look at our lights running in full sunlight and bring your lantern for
comparison...

Add to that the custom machined housing/heat sink, anodization,
circuitry, mounting bracket, adhesives, wire, marketing, lower market
size, etc. etc. etc. and that explains why it is more expensive than a
commercially massed produced camping lantern.

Also, our light is specifically designed for an airplane. It will
handle vibration, shock, thermal extremes, total immersion in water,
won't interfere with your radios, etc. etc. You can drop it 10 feet
onto concrete and it will still work. You can throw it in your
swimming pool and it will still work. It is designed to last as long
or longer than your airframe.

Dean

[El Maximo]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Come
> look at our lights running in full sunlight and bring your lantern for
> comparison...

I suspect he will... He should have it Oshkosh anyway.

> You can drop it 10 feet onto concrete and it will still work.

My airplane won't

> You can throw it in your swimming pool and it will still work.

Again, something my airplane won't do.

>
> Dean
>

You really need a better sig than that. Look at Jay's. He puts is URL in
every post.

In any event, I hope you do well with your product.

[[email protected]]

>
> > You can drop it 10 feet onto concrete and it will still work.
>
> My airplane won't

True, but after 10 years of airframe vibration and turbulence, it
won't break. That is why it has to be that tough.

>
> > You can throw it in your swimming pool and it will still work.
>
> Again, something my airplane won't do.
>
True, but if rain gets on it it won't leak and fail, same if you
pressure-wash it. It will also survive long term exposure to high
humidity environments.

Thanks for the goodwill, and I'll put a sig line as suggested.

By the way, we have an Oshkosh special price which is less than the
price on our website.

Dean
AeroLEDs LLC
http://www.aeroleds.com

[Morgans[_2_]]

> wrote

> Dean
> AeroLEDs LLC
> http://www.aeroleds.com
>

Try clicking on your page in the sig. It only brings up a page with no links,
at least in mine
--
Jim in NC.

[Dave S]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>AeroLEDs is introducing a new high intensity LED wing-tip landing/
>>recognition light at Oshkosh 2007.
>
>
> Dang it, Dean, you had me going for a while, but for two things:
>
> - Non-certified. Can't use it in my plane.
> - Price. $850 (for 2) buys a whole bunch of Q4509s.

Jay..

I feel compelled to chime in here. While my flying hours have slacked
off significantly in the past 3-4 years as I've spent most of my money
and time doing an experimental build, I've got about 500 hours, and well
over 1/4 of that was at night.

I bought a high intensity discharge landing light for our project and
installed it in the nose of the velocity. Scratch that.. i bought a TAXI
light.. not the landing beam.

The Taxi beam with HID was still able to illuminate further forward
than the halogen or quartz incandescent landing lights, and in addition
gave me wider coverage than the "spot" landing beams.

From 100 yards away, the beam is still bright enough in daylight to
leave spots in your vision when you look at it.

And I paid around $400 for it. But its power draw is less than the
regular incandescent bulbs, and its got a bulb life that is supposed to
be over a thousand hours.

I intend to leave it on for the duration of most of our flights -
day, night, only switch it off if/when flying ifr causes reflection in
the cockpit. I expect a big increase in the ability of other folks to
see me, especially in the congested Houston area terminal airspace.

The benefits? a LONG time between having to change out bulbs, not
having to execute a night landing with the relatively frequent risk of a
burnt out bulb, then landing and taxiing in the dark. If I chose not to
use the bulb 100% of the time, and only for takeoff, landing and ground
ops, it likely would be a lifetime bulb, good for the life of the
airframe. Even in the past two years, when i've flown less than 40 hours
combined, I've had two burnt out bulbs on the rentals I was flying. Try
buying a bulb on sunday when you have to get home sunday night. Not
required for non commercial ops, but how often does the average pilot
PRACTICE landing with no landing light, particularly at a field with
minimal lighting?

So yes. These new fangled bulbs - both LED and HID - cost a bunch
more. But you are very likely buying a device that will last for years
on your airframe, and outperforms the $10 "disposable" landing lights
hands down.

To me, its worth it. To you, if you fly VFR Day, nice weather only,
it may never be an issue. Had we been at a different point in our build
(we are doing engine testing now, and shopping for DAR's) I would have
been VERY interested in putting high intensity LED position lights in
our wingtips for ground visibilty and in-flight anticollision purposes.

Also, the noncertified issue can be addressed through field
approvals. I've heard they've gotten much more difficult lately,
depending on where you are. But once one person has it, its easier for
the next to get it based on their data.

Dave

[[email protected]]

On Jul 12, 1:29 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
> > wrote
>
> > Dean
> > AeroLEDs LLC
> >http://www.aeroleds.com
> >
>
> Try clicking on your page in the sig. It only brings up a page with no links,
> at least in mine
> --
> Jim in NC.

The links are in the upper right hand corner of the page...

[Morgans[_2_]]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jul 12, 1:29 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
>> > wrote
>>
>> > Dean
>> > AeroLEDs LLC
>> >http://www.aeroleds.com
>> >
>>
>> Try clicking on your page in the sig. It only brings up a page with no
>> links,
>> at least in mine
>> --
>> Jim in NC.
>
> The links are in the upper right hand corner of the page...
>
That is interesting. When the page open minimized, that portion of the page is
totally obscured, but at the same time, the page looks complete.

While I take responsibility for not realizing that, I can't help but wonder how
many others have missed them, too. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Blueskies]

> wrote in message ups.com...
>I posted earlier in response to a message from Jay Honeck telling him
> to come by our booth at Oshkosh and say high, not meaning to make a
> public announcement about a new product we are introducing at Oshkosh,
> but it was quickly noticed by others and I was told I was being coy.
> I just didn't want to be accused of spamming the group. Well, I
> guess I'll take those coy comments as an invitation to post an
> announcement:
>
> AeroLEDs is introducing a new high intensity LED wing-tip landing/
> recognition light at Oshkosh 2007. If you are interested in seeing
> it, come by space 413 in the north aircraft area. We will have them
> mounted on a Red/White/Blue Kitfox series 7 that has an eagle graphic
> on the tail. Our website is http://www.aeroleds.com
>
> We are just getting our first batch of production units done this week
> (without the last minute, would anything ever get done?) and will have
> product at the show.
>
> I believe that this is the first product of this type available on the
> market. HID landing lights have been the only competition with
> Halogen up to this point.
>
> Dean
>

Thanks for breaking ground with this product. I wish you well, and will look you up at 'the show'...

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote
>
>> Dean
>> AeroLEDs LLC
>> http://www.aeroleds.com
>>
>
> Try clicking on your page in the sig. It only brings up a page with no
> links, at least in mine
> --
> Jim in NC.

Worked 4 me

Internet Explorer 7.0
--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Jay Honeck]

> The LEDs in that lantern are not as high output as the ones we are
> using. We are using LEDs that cost over $3.00 each and can burn up to
> 3 Watts per LED. I seriously doubt the ones in your lantern come even
> close to that.

<snip of good stuff>

Thanks, Dean -- all of that makes good sense. I doubt my Chinese-made
hand-held lantern would last long in the environment you described.

I'm looking forward to seeing them...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting wrote:
> On Jul 12, 1:29 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
>> > wrote
>>
>> Try clicking on your page in the sig. It only brings up a page
>> with no links, at least in mine
>
> The links are in the upper right hand corner of the page...

IMHO it would be better to have a big notice about the product on the
very first page. It can be a link to the detail page, but it needs to
be on the first page your potential customers see.

If you go down to the Chevy dealer, most of the new cars are parked out
front and the ones that are inside are behind big glass windows. They
don't ask you to come inside the front door into a room with just a
sign on the wall saying "Welcome to Acme Chevrolet", and _then_ go
through another door into a windowless room where the new cars are
sitting. :)

The press release should be on the Web page (in HTML) as well as in PDF.
Again, don't make people do extra work to find out about your product.

The photo of the light by itself is natively 587x373, but is being
scaled in the HTML to 587x464, which makes the light appear "stretched"
vertically. It also makes the photo a little more blocky or pixellated
than it otherwise might be. Things with reflectors are somewhat
difficult to take pictures of, but if you reshoot, consider putting the
light on a piece of white paper (to remove all distractions from the
background), lighting it from multiple angles to reduce shadows, and
turning off the camera flash.

The photo of the light as installed on the Kitfox is set in the HTML at
its native resolution, so that photo isn't distorted.

I think the installation instructions for the light would benefit from a
typical wiring diagram for both one and two light installations, and a
view of the connector with pin numbers. You should also give directions
on what to do with the master and slave wires that are unused (tape
off/insulate, most likely). This gets into the specifics of how it
installs on a particular plane, but you may also consider installing the
light half of the Molex connector at the factory, and possibly even
providing the harness half of the connector installed on a 12" or so
pigtail. Otherwise, the purchaser has to deal with crimping Molex pins,
which nobody has the right crimper for. If you are going to supply the
pins loose piece, give 'em six or seven of each, so they can screw up
once or twice. :)

The installation instructions also suffer from typical Microsoft Turd
paragraph indent problems in the ten installation steps and in part
1.0 of the Specifications. Also, part 1.0 should say "LEDs" (plural)
instead of "LED's" (possessive). Should part 3.4 say "Lightning"
instead of "Lighting"?

I don't quite understand section 3.5 of the specifications. I know what
the difference between positive and negative ground is, but it's not
clear whether the red and yellow wires always have to be more positive
than the black wire, or if it doesn't matter. Put another way, if you
have something like

resistor LED
red wire ---/\/\/------|>|--- black wire

then the red wire always has to be more positive than the black wire,
whereas if you have something like

bridge resistor LED
red wire ---+---|>|---+------/\/\/------|>|---,
| | |
'---|<|-----, |
| | |
,---|>|---' | |
| | |
black wire ---+---|<|-----+---------------------'

then it doesn't matter how the red and black wires are hooked up. (Yes,
I do realize that what's inside your light is a more complicated than a
resistor and an LED!)

I realize the big show is over, but an interesting demo might be to
mount one of your lights and a plain old incandescent lamp on a paint
shaker, or an electric motor with an offset weight on the shaft, or a
lawnmower engine - something that vibrates. Hook both lights to a
battery with very simple and visible wiring, to show that there's
nothing funny going on. Then turn on the shaker and see which one burns
out first. :) It's not as impressive as seeing it in person, but a
video of such a demo might be useful. Again, this is hard to
photograph, and it's not as good as seeing it in person, but you could
also put one of your lights on one wing, a regular lamp on the other
wing, turn them both on, and take a photo (no flash) from the cockpit
to illustrate the difference. Depending on how the lights are aimed,
it might help to have the plane pointing at the wall of a hangar, or
a known distance from a stripe on the pavement, to illustrate the
difference.

Matt Roberds

[El Maximo]

> wrote in message
...

<very long, yet extremely informative post snipped>

I find the contrast between the reception of this product, and Wayne's
wingspam.com interesting. Both are trying to make a living selling to
pilots, however one has chosen to simply spam and run, while the other is
properly using this forum to both inform and generate interest in his
product.

Dean, I wish you the best with your product.

Wayne, I wish you would stop spamming us.

[Denny]

Just some general comments - not aimed at Dean's product...

LED has been touted as the end all and be all of lighting, replacing
the incandescent bulb... However, the emperor's new clothes may be a
bit revealing...

First, is that LED lights require substantial heat sinks and adequate
ventilation in order to function... (Dean's product looks competently
designed for this)... Failure to adequately cool the LED will result
in short service life... An adequate heat sink often erases any size
advantage the LED started out with...
Initial installation cost of LED light assembly is markedly higher
than an incandescent... Colreg approved LED running lights for boats
are downright expensive...
Replacement cost of LED lighting that fails in service is vastly
higher than simply replacing a $20 bulb...
By the time the LED assembly is properly cooled with a heatsink the
weight advantage of LED is markedly lessened...
Voltage control is more stringent for proper functioning of LED light
assemblies, as opposed to incandescent filament bulbs..
Dimmers for LED lights are expensive for technical reasons...

In boats/yachts where extended operation from a battery set is a way
of life there has been a rush to replace incandescent with LED due to
it's more efficient use of watt hours... The experience with that has
shown that LED has its place, but it is not a blanket replacement...
For task lighting, such as spot lighting over a galley counter, the
LED is excellent... It is also excellent for lighting of stair steps,
in the head, inside of cabinets, drawers and closets, and night
lights...For general cabin lighting (even lighting of large areas) the
cold cathode and fluorescent lights are still preferred... For high
intensity tasks, such as deck lights, anchor raising lights, and spot
lights, the halogen bulb still reigns supreme... For a reading light,
the jury is still out - and I personally have not found a light my
eyes like better than the incandescent for extended periods of
reading... For mast lights and running lights the LED is making
progress, but initial cost and light output is still an issue...

Things are never as simple as they seem... Now, this is not intended
to begin a debate over Dean's product, it is simply remarks on what I
have found in the 2 years of research for outfitting my boat... What
that means in an aircraft is up to you...

denny

[[email protected]]

On Jul 25, 7:14 am, Denny > wrote:
> Just some general comments - not aimed at Dean's product...
>
> LED has been touted as the end all and be all of lighting, replacing
> the incandescent bulb... However, the emperor's new clothes may be a
> bit revealing...
>
> First, is that LED lights require substantial heat sinks and adequate
> ventilation in order to function... (Dean's product looks competently
> designed for this)... Failure to adequately cool the LED will result
> in short service life... An adequate heat sink often erases any size
> advantage the LED started out with...
> Initial installation cost of LED light assembly is markedly higher
> than an incandescent... Colreg approved LED running lights for boats
> are downright expensive...
> Replacement cost of LED lighting that fails in service is vastly
> higher than simply replacing a $20 bulb...
> By the time the LED assembly is properly cooled with a heatsink the
> weight advantage of LED is markedly lessened...
> Voltage control is more stringent for proper functioning of LED light
> assemblies, as opposed to incandescent filament bulbs..
> Dimmers for LED lights are expensive for technical reasons...
>
> In boats/yachts where extended operation from a battery set is a way
> of life there has been a rush to replace incandescent with LED due to
> it's more efficient use of watt hours... The experience with that has
> shown that LED has its place, but it is not a blanket replacement...
> For task lighting, such as spot lighting over a galley counter, the
> LED is excellent... It is also excellent for lighting of stair steps,
> in the head, inside of cabinets, drawers and closets, and night
> lights...For general cabin lighting (even lighting of large areas) the
> cold cathode and fluorescent lights are still preferred... For high
> intensity tasks, such as deck lights, anchor raising lights, and spot
> lights, the halogen bulb still reigns supreme... For a reading light,
> the jury is still out - and I personally have not found a light my
> eyes like better than the incandescent for extended periods of
> reading... For mast lights and running lights the LED is making
> progress, but initial cost and light output is still an issue...
>
> Things are never as simple as they seem... Now, this is not intended
> to begin a debate over Dean's product, it is simply remarks on what I
> have found in the 2 years of research for outfitting my boat... What
> that means in an aircraft is up to you...
>
> denny

Denny,

You are correct that proper heat sinking is essential to preserving an
LED. Exceeding the rated junction temperature of an LED will result
in it failing long before its rated life. Our design guarantees that
the LEDs will remain at least 40C below their maximum junction
temperature of 150C even on the hottest day at full power. We have
had many people come by our exhibit in the North Aircraft area wanting
to know why the device has such a large heat sink and weighs 0.9
pounds (just under 1 pound).

Most people who experiment with LEDs just hook them up to a current
limiting resistor and call it good. That is really not a good
practice for an airplane. Our product has a switching supply that
regulates the LED current for an input voltage range of 9V to 36V
which guarantees reliable operation. It is also protected against
voltage spikes, ESD, and lightning transients. We have also conducted
DO-160E RFI and conducted emissions tests to ensure that it does not
interfere with radios or anything on the electrical system.

To really appreciate how well our landing light works, you have to see
it at night. We have demoed it to a few people after 9pm. We
generate a lot more light than a 55W halogen at less that 1/2 the
power.

We arrived at Oshkosh at 12:15 on Saturday when the sun was very
bright, and the controller at Fisk called us out as the high wing with
blue stripes on the wings and flashing lights (wig wag mode was on).
We were happy to hear that!

Dean
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[Hilton]

Dean,

Congrats on the new product. Make sure Julie at AOPA and the various mags
get the press release.

My knowledge of LEDs is: pick an LED, add a 1K resistor and a 9V and you're
good to go - back from my hobby electronic days :). I had a quick question
about the temperatures. Death Valley gets to 120-130F (I believe). If you
run the LED as an anti-collision system during take/off and landing,
couldn't you get about (or at least close to) the 150F?

Thanks,

Hilton



> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Jul 25, 7:14 am, Denny > wrote:
>> Just some general comments - not aimed at Dean's product...
>>
>> LED has been touted as the end all and be all of lighting, replacing
>> the incandescent bulb... However, the emperor's new clothes may be a
>> bit revealing...
>>
>> First, is that LED lights require substantial heat sinks and adequate
>> ventilation in order to function... (Dean's product looks competently
>> designed for this)... Failure to adequately cool the LED will result
>> in short service life... An adequate heat sink often erases any size
>> advantage the LED started out with...
>> Initial installation cost of LED light assembly is markedly higher
>> than an incandescent... Colreg approved LED running lights for boats
>> are downright expensive...
>> Replacement cost of LED lighting that fails in service is vastly
>> higher than simply replacing a $20 bulb...
>> By the time the LED assembly is properly cooled with a heatsink the
>> weight advantage of LED is markedly lessened...
>> Voltage control is more stringent for proper functioning of LED light
>> assemblies, as opposed to incandescent filament bulbs..
>> Dimmers for LED lights are expensive for technical reasons...
>>
>> In boats/yachts where extended operation from a battery set is a way
>> of life there has been a rush to replace incandescent with LED due to
>> it's more efficient use of watt hours... The experience with that has
>> shown that LED has its place, but it is not a blanket replacement...
>> For task lighting, such as spot lighting over a galley counter, the
>> LED is excellent... It is also excellent for lighting of stair steps,
>> in the head, inside of cabinets, drawers and closets, and night
>> lights...For general cabin lighting (even lighting of large areas) the
>> cold cathode and fluorescent lights are still preferred... For high
>> intensity tasks, such as deck lights, anchor raising lights, and spot
>> lights, the halogen bulb still reigns supreme... For a reading light,
>> the jury is still out - and I personally have not found a light my
>> eyes like better than the incandescent for extended periods of
>> reading... For mast lights and running lights the LED is making
>> progress, but initial cost and light output is still an issue...
>>
>> Things are never as simple as they seem... Now, this is not intended
>> to begin a debate over Dean's product, it is simply remarks on what I
>> have found in the 2 years of research for outfitting my boat... What
>> that means in an aircraft is up to you...
>>
>> denny
>
> Denny,
>
> You are correct that proper heat sinking is essential to preserving an
> LED. Exceeding the rated junction temperature of an LED will result
> in it failing long before its rated life. Our design guarantees that
> the LEDs will remain at least 40C below their maximum junction
> temperature of 150C even on the hottest day at full power. We have
> had many people come by our exhibit in the North Aircraft area wanting
> to know why the device has such a large heat sink and weighs 0.9
> pounds (just under 1 pound).
>
> Most people who experiment with LEDs just hook them up to a current
> limiting resistor and call it good. That is really not a good
> practice for an airplane. Our product has a switching supply that
> regulates the LED current for an input voltage range of 9V to 36V
> which guarantees reliable operation. It is also protected against
> voltage spikes, ESD, and lightning transients. We have also conducted
> DO-160E RFI and conducted emissions tests to ensure that it does not
> interfere with radios or anything on the electrical system.
>
> To really appreciate how well our landing light works, you have to see
> it at night. We have demoed it to a few people after 9pm. We
> generate a lot more light than a 55W halogen at less that 1/2 the
> power.
>
> We arrived at Oshkosh at 12:15 on Saturday when the sun was very
> bright, and the controller at Fisk called us out as the high wing with
> blue stripes on the wings and flashing lights (wig wag mode was on).
> We were happy to hear that!
>
> Dean
> AeroLEDs LLC
> www.aeroleds.com
>

[Andrew Sarangan]

On Aug 1, 3:27 pm, "Hilton" > wrote:
> Dean,
>
> Congrats on the new product. Make sure Julie at AOPA and the various mags
> get the press release.
>
> My knowledge of LEDs is: pick an LED, add a 1K resistor and a 9V and you're
> good to go - back from my hobby electronic days :). I had a quick question
> about the temperatures. Death Valley gets to 120-130F (I believe). If you
> run the LED as an anti-collision system during take/off and landing,
> couldn't you get about (or at least close to) the 150F?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton
>
> > wrote in message
>
> oups.com...
>
>
>
> > On Jul 25, 7:14 am, Denny > wrote:
> >> Just some general comments - not aimed at Dean's product...
>
> >> LED has been touted as the end all and be all of lighting, replacing
> >> the incandescent bulb... However, the emperor's new clothes may be a
> >> bit revealing...
>
> >> First, is that LED lights require substantial heat sinks and adequate
> >> ventilation in order to function... (Dean's product looks competently
> >> designed for this)... Failure to adequately cool the LED will result
> >> in short service life... An adequate heat sink often erases any size
> >> advantage the LED started out with...
> >> Initial installation cost of LED light assembly is markedly higher
> >> than an incandescent... Colreg approved LED running lights for boats
> >> are downright expensive...
> >> Replacement cost of LED lighting that fails in service is vastly
> >> higher than simply replacing a $20 bulb...
> >> By the time the LED assembly is properly cooled with a heatsink the
> >> weight advantage of LED is markedly lessened...
> >> Voltage control is more stringent for proper functioning of LED light
> >> assemblies, as opposed to incandescent filament bulbs..
> >> Dimmers for LED lights are expensive for technical reasons...
>
> >> In boats/yachts where extended operation from a battery set is a way
> >> of life there has been a rush to replace incandescent with LED due to
> >> it's more efficient use of watt hours... The experience with that has
> >> shown that LED has its place, but it is not a blanket replacement...
> >> For task lighting, such as spot lighting over a galley counter, the
> >> LED is excellent... It is also excellent for lighting of stair steps,
> >> in the head, inside of cabinets, drawers and closets, and night
> >> lights...For general cabin lighting (even lighting of large areas) the
> >> cold cathode and fluorescent lights are still preferred... For high
> >> intensity tasks, such as deck lights, anchor raising lights, and spot
> >> lights, the halogen bulb still reigns supreme... For a reading light,
> >> the jury is still out - and I personally have not found a light my
> >> eyes like better than the incandescent for extended periods of
> >> reading... For mast lights and running lights the LED is making
> >> progress, but initial cost and light output is still an issue...
>
> >> Things are never as simple as they seem... Now, this is not intended
> >> to begin a debate over Dean's product, it is simply remarks on what I
> >> have found in the 2 years of research for outfitting my boat... What
> >> that means in an aircraft is up to you...
>
> >> denny
>
> > Denny,
>
> > You are correct that proper heat sinking is essential to preserving an
> > LED. Exceeding the rated junction temperature of an LED will result
> > in it failing long before its rated life. Our design guarantees that
> > the LEDs will remain at least 40C below their maximum junction
> > temperature of 150C even on the hottest day at full power. We have
> > had many people come by our exhibit in the North Aircraft area wanting
> > to know why the device has such a large heat sink and weighs 0.9
> > pounds (just under 1 pound).
>
> > Most people who experiment with LEDs just hook them up to a current
> > limiting resistor and call it good. That is really not a good
> > practice for an airplane. Our product has a switching supply that
> > regulates the LED current for an input voltage range of 9V to 36V
> > which guarantees reliable operation. It is also protected against
> > voltage spikes, ESD, and lightning transients. We have also conducted
> > DO-160E RFI and conducted emissions tests to ensure that it does not
> > interfere with radios or anything on the electrical system.
>
> > To really appreciate how well our landing light works, you have to see
> > it at night. We have demoed it to a few people after 9pm. We
> > generate a lot more light than a 55W halogen at less that 1/2 the
> > power.
>
> > We arrived at Oshkosh at 12:15 on Saturday when the sun was very
> > bright, and the controller at Fisk called us out as the high wing with
> > blue stripes on the wings and flashing lights (wig wag mode was on).
> > We were happy to hear that!
>
> > Dean
> > AeroLEDs LLC
> >www.aeroleds.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I have tinkered with high brightness LEDs for some time. My conclusion
was LEDs significantly outperform other sources only in situations
where you need single color, such as nav lights, red cockpit lights,
traffic lights etc... For white light applications their performance
is less impressive. That is reasonable because LEDs inherently produce
single color photons, while incandescent sources produce a broadband
of photons. You lose efficiency converting a broad band to a single
color, and you also lose efficiency converting a single color to a
broad band.

Also, it is not fair to just compare the brightness. You should also
consider the weight of the heat sink and extra circuitry. In addition,
LED lamps are typically thermally bonded to their heat sinks so
individually replacing burnt out LED may be difficult or impossible.
You might have to replace the whole array. They are insensitive to
vibration, but are more sensitive to temperature fluctuations.

[[email protected]]

On Aug 1, 1:27 pm, "Hilton" > wrote:
> Dean,
>
> Congrats on the new product. Make sure Julie at AOPA and the various mags
> get the press release.
>
> My knowledge of LEDs is: pick an LED, add a 1K resistor and a 9V and you're
> good to go - back from my hobby electronic days :). I had a quick question
> about the temperatures. Death Valley gets to 120-130F (I believe). If you
> run the LED as an anti-collision system during take/off and landing,
> couldn't you get about (or at least close to) the 150F?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Hilton


Hi Hilton,

At 130F (55C) the heatsink on our unit will be at 90C (194F) which
will not damage the components. If the heat sink gets to about 95C,
the unit will self-protect by automatically entering the flash mode
which cuts the power in half, preventing any further temperature
rise...

Dean

[[email protected]]

On Aug 1, 2:03 pm, Andrew Sarangan > wrote:
> On Aug 1, 3:27 pm, "Hilton" > wrote:
>
> I have tinkered with high brightness LEDs for some time. My conclusion
> was LEDs significantly outperform other sources only in situations
> where you need single color, such as nav lights, red cockpit lights,
> traffic lights etc... For white light applications their performance
> is less impressive. That is reasonable because LEDs inherently produce
> single color photons, while incandescent sources produce a broadband
> of photons. You lose efficiency converting a broad band to a single
> color, and you also lose efficiency converting a single color to a
> broad band.
>

This is not true anymore... the LEDs we are using are now available in
efficiencies as high as 100lumens/Watt. That is better than a compact
fluorescent light bulb. You can not look directly at the LEDs we are
using when they are on. If you do, you will see spots for quite a
while afterwards.

> Also, it is not fair to just compare the brightness. You should also
> consider the weight of the heat sink and extra circuitry. In addition,
> LED lamps are typically thermally bonded to their heat sinks so
> individually replacing burnt out LED may be difficult or impossible.
> You might have to replace the whole array. They are insensitive to
> vibration, but are more sensitive to temperature fluctuations.- Hide quoted text -
>

Equivalent halogen wing-mounted landing lights are no lighter than our
product, and we are much brighter. Duckworks touts their light-weight
halogen light as being only 15.5 Oz (0.97 lbs) which is about the same
weight as our unit...

Dean
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[[email protected]]

Matt,

> IMHO it would be better to have a big notice about the product on the
> very first page. It can be a link to the detail page, but it needs to
> be on the first page your potential customers see.
>

Good point, I did that...

> The press release should be on the Web page (in HTML) as well as in PDF.
> Again, don't make people do extra work to find out about your product.
>

I will do this...

> The photo of the light by itself is natively 587x373, but is being
> scaled in the HTML to 587x464, which makes the light appear "stretched"
> vertically. It also makes the photo a little more blocky or pixellated
> than it otherwise might be. Things with reflectors are somewhat
> difficult to take pictures of, but if you reshoot, consider putting the
> light on a piece of white paper (to remove all distractions from the
> background), lighting it from multiple angles to reduce shadows, and
> turning off the camera flash.
>

We didn't have a lot of time to get professional photos of the product
leading up to Oshkosh. We have more time now to do that, so we will
be putting much better photos on the site soon...

> I think the installation instructions for the light would benefit from a
> typical wiring diagram for both one and two light installations, and a
> view of the connector with pin numbers. You should also give directions
> on what to do with the master and slave wires that are unused (tape
> off/insulate, most likely). This gets into the specifics of how it
> installs on a particular plane, but you may also consider installing the
> light half of the Molex connector at the factory, and possibly even
> providing the harness half of the connector installed on a 12" or so
> pigtail. Otherwise, the purchaser has to deal with crimping Molex pins,
> which nobody has the right crimper for. If you are going to supply the
> pins loose piece, give 'em six or seven of each, so they can screw up
> once or twice. :)
>

Good points, and we do provide an extra pin for each connector...

> The installation instructions also suffer from typical Microsoft Turd
> paragraph indent problems in the ten installation steps and in part
> 1.0 of the Specifications. Also, part 1.0 should say "LEDs" (plural)
> instead of "LED's" (possessive). Should part 3.4 say "Lightning"
> instead of "Lighting"?
>

Thanks, I'll fix that.

> I don't quite understand section 3.5 of the specifications. I know what
> the difference between positive and negative ground is, but it's not
> clear whether the red and yellow wires always have to be more positive
> than the black wire, or if it doesn't matter. Put another way, if you
> have something like
>
> resistor LED
> red wire ---/\/\/------|>|--- black wire
>
> then the red wire always has to be more positive than the black wire,
> whereas if you have something like
>
> bridge resistor LED
> red wire ---+---|>|---+------/\/\/------|>|---,
> | | |
> '---|<|-----, |
> | | |
> ,---|>|---' | |
> | | |
> black wire ---+---|<|-----+---------------------'
>
> then it doesn't matter how the red and black wires are hooked up. (Yes,
> I do realize that what's inside your light is a more complicated than a
> resistor and an LED!)
>

The design is reverse polarity protected, but we do require that
ground and power be hooked up correctly to function. A full-wave
bridge adds another diode drop and cost, both of which are not
desireable.

Power to the red wire gives full-on operation. Power to the yellow
wire gives flashing operation, regardless of the state of the red
wire.

> I realize the big show is over, but an interesting demo might be to
> mount one of your lights and a plain old incandescent lamp on a paint
> shaker, or an electric motor with an offset weight on the shaft, or a
> lawnmower engine - something that vibrates. Hook both lights to a
> battery with very simple and visible wiring, to show that there's
> nothing funny going on. Then turn on the shaker and see which one burns
> out first. :) It's not as impressive as seeing it in person, but a
> video of such a demo might be useful. Again, this is hard to
> photograph, and it's not as good as seeing it in person, but you could
> also put one of your lights on one wing, a regular lamp on the other
> wing, turn them both on, and take a photo (no flash) from the cockpit
> to illustrate the difference. Depending on how the lights are aimed,
> it might help to have the plane pointing at the wall of a hangar, or
> a known distance from a stripe on the pavement, to illustrate the
> difference.
>

We did have a show-down on Saturday night with an RV-7 that had
Duckworks leading edge halogens with a wig-wag controller. Our
lights were much brighter, lit a much larger area, and we could leave
them on for much much longer than the RV dared.

I like your idea about the paint shaker.

Dean Wilkinson
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

> wrote:

> If the heat sink gets to about 95C,
> the unit will self-protect by automatically entering the flash mode


THAT would be fun on short final to a dark runway!

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[[email protected]]

On Aug 2, 12:38 pm, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> > If the heat sink gets to about 95C,
> > the unit will self-protect by automatically entering the flash mode
>
> THAT would be fun on short final to a dark runway!
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

Dan,

The air temperature inside a wing at night in flight will never get
anywhere close to 140F, so it won't happen on short final at night...
plus, it would take at least 45 minutes to an hour even in a 140F
ambient for the unit to get hot enough to self-protect.

Dean
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[john smith[_2_]]

> > > wrote:
> > > If the heat sink gets to about 95C,
> > > the unit will self-protect by automatically entering the flash mode

> > THAT would be fun on short final to a dark runway!
> > Dan
> > T-182T at BFM

> wrote:
> Dan,
> The air temperature inside a wing at night in flight will never get
> anywhere close to 140F, so it won't happen on short final at night...
> plus, it would take at least 45 minutes to an hour even in a 140F
> ambient for the unit to get hot enough to self-protect.

I can fore-see a mini-draft tube as an optional addition. :-)

[[email protected]]

On Aug 2, 1:31 pm, john smith > wrote:
> > > > wrote:
> > > > If the heat sink gets to about 95C,
> > > > the unit will self-protect by automatically entering the flash mode
> > > THAT would be fun on short final to a dark runway!
> > > Dan
> > > T-182T at BFM
> > wrote:
> > Dan,
> > The air temperature inside a wing at night in flight will never get
> > anywhere close to 140F, so it won't happen on short final at night...
> > plus, it would take at least 45 minutes to an hour even in a 140F
> > ambient for the unit to get hot enough to self-protect.
>
> I can fore-see a mini-draft tube as an optional addition. :-)

John,

Actually that isn't necessary. Wings leak quite a bit of air in
flight, so there is always some airflow inside them. Even if there is
no airflow, our unit will passively cool in stagnant air. The volume
of air inside most wings is perfectly adequate to allow it to remain
at a reasonable temperature even if you are parked on the ground.
Once in flight, there is plenty of cooling so the unit will run even
cooler...

Dean
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[Morgans[_2_]]

> wrote in message
>
> We didn't have a lot of time to get professional photos of the product
> leading up to Oshkosh. We have more time now to do that, so we will
> be putting much better photos on the site soon...

I would love for you to have a "show down" on your web page, with
comparisons of your light vs. a couple other lights.

It would be good to see it from two views; from looking into the different
lights, and looking at the light shining onto a wall, or a taxiway.

If I were in the market for such a product, I would be convinced about them
increasing your visibility from other planes looking for you. I would be
skeptical about how well it would throw the light on the ground, for use as
a landing or taxi light. That is the thing I would need to be convinced
about.

You would need to have a picture with both types in the same frame, to make
it less likely to the observer that "tricks" have been used to skew the
results.

Neat product. Keep up the product development!
--
Jim in NC

[Hilton]

Dean,

> At 130F (55C) the heatsink on our unit will be at 90C (194F) which
> will not damage the components.

Doh, I read your "150C" as "150F". Thanks for clarifying.

Hilton

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

> wrote:

>> > If the heat sink gets to about 95C,
>> > the unit will self-protect by automatically entering the flash mode
>>
>> THAT would be fun on short final to a dark runway!
>>
>> --
>> Dan
>> T-182T at BFM
>
> Dan,
>
> The air temperature inside a wing at night in flight will never get
> anywhere close to 140F, so it won't happen on short final at night...
> plus, it would take at least 45 minutes to an hour even in a 140F
> ambient for the unit to get hot enough to self-protect.

Just kidding you, Dean. You have an interesting product; sorry I missed
seeing it at OSH.

Good luck with it.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Dan Luke" < wrote

>>> THAT would be fun on short final to a dark runway!

> Just kidding you, Dean. You have an interesting product; sorry I missed
> seeing it at OSH.

Nah, it wouldn't be all that bad. It would be, "now you see it - now you
don't! "

<g>
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

On Aug 3, 8:22 am, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> > If the heat sink gets to about 95C,
> >> > the unit will self-protect by automatically entering the flash mode
>
> >> THAT would be fun on short final to a dark runway!
>
> >> --
> >> Dan
> >> T-182T at BFM
>
> > Dan,
>
> > The air temperature inside a wing at night in flight will never get
> > anywhere close to 140F, so it won't happen on short final at night...
> > plus, it would take at least 45 minutes to an hour even in a 140F
> > ambient for the unit to get hot enough to self-protect.
>
> Just kidding you, Dean. You have an interesting product; sorry I missed
> seeing it at OSH.
>
> Good luck with it.
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi Dan,

Thanks, I wasn't sure... posts don't carry tone of voice so subtle
humor is often lost in translation! Hence the many flame wars that go
on in usenet space!

Dean

[[email protected]]

On Aug 3, 8:58 am, "Morgans" > wrote:
> "Dan Luke" < wrote
>
> >>> THAT would be fun on short final to a dark runway!
> > Just kidding you, Dean. You have an interesting product; sorry I missed
> > seeing it at OSH.
>
> Nah, it wouldn't be all that bad. It would be, "now you see it - now you
> don't! "
>
> <g>
> --
> Jim in NC

And don't forget the old joke... if landing at night with an engine
failure, wait until you get close to the ground before turning on your
landing light. If you don't like what you see, turn it back off...

Dean

[Morgans[_2_]]

<deanwil> wrote

> And don't forget the old joke... if landing at night with an engine
> failure, wait until you get close to the ground before turning on your
> landing light. If you don't like what you see, turn it back off...

Yep! An oldie but a goodie!

I'm a big fan of LED's. I have a MagLight 3D cell 3 watt, and a MiniMag 2AA
3 watt, and various other hat bill lights, strap on forehead lights, glasses
lights, ....

I guess I have to confess that I'm a flashlight addict! <g>

One thing that I have really noticed, is that the color and intensity of
(especially the 3 watt) LED's make it easy to see details of items at
distances that would be impossible with other flashlights, and that includes
the krypton (sp?) bulbs.

I would imagine that holds true with your lights, also.

At what distance are you able to pick out the numbers on a dark night, and
how does that compare to a quartz-halogen landing light of a average
wattage, like say on a C-172? Is it a noticeable difference?
--
Jim in NC

[Andrew Sarangan]

On Aug 2, 1:41 pm, wrote:
> On Aug 1, 2:03 pm, Andrew Sarangan > wrote:
>
> > On Aug 1, 3:27 pm, "Hilton" > wrote:
>
> > I have tinkered with high brightness LEDs for some time. My conclusion
> > was LEDs significantly outperform other sources only in situations
> > where you need single color, such as nav lights, red cockpit lights,
> > traffic lights etc... For white light applications their performance
> > is less impressive. That is reasonable because LEDs inherently produce
> > single color photons, while incandescent sources produce a broadband
> > of photons. You lose efficiency converting a broad band to a single
> > color, and you also lose efficiency converting a single color to a
> > broad band.
>
> This is not true anymore... the LEDs we are using are now available in
> efficiencies as high as 100lumens/Watt. That is better than a compact
> fluorescent light bulb. You can not look directly at the LEDs we are
> using when they are on. If you do, you will see spots for quite a
> while afterwards.

Which LED's are they? I worked with the Luxeon stars to design by
wing tip lights, but that was over a year ago.

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 10:41:17 -0700, wrote in
om>:

> the LEDs we are using are now available in
>efficiencies as high as 100lumens/Watt.

Would that be these?:

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8202
Luxeon V LED - White 5 Watt

[[email protected]]

>
> Would that be these?:
>
> http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8202
> Luxeon V LED - White 5 Watt

Sorry guys, but we aren't willing to share our bill of materials with
anyone not under NDA. I do understand and appreciate your desire to
know which ones they are.

Dean W.
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[[email protected]]

Due to the positive response that our product has received, we were
able to improve our manufacturing costs (spread out our NRE over more
units) and lower our selling price.

We are now offering our AeroSUN LED landing/recognition lights for
$350 each or $650 for a pair. Customers who paid the previous price
are being credited the difference.

The warranty is 10 years from date of purchase.

Dean W.
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[[email protected]]

Currently we are offering two versions of our AeroSUN LED lights.

The AeroSUN 800 produces 800 lumens on 24 watts of power. This light
is good for taxi and recognition (with built-in wig-wag function) and
can provide supplemental light for a cowl mounted landing light, as
well providing a good forward facing anti-collision light system.

The AeroSUN 800 sells for $175 for one light, or $325 for a pair of
them.

The AeroSUN 1600 produces 1600 lumens on 24 watts of power. This light
is good for landing, taxi, and recognition (with built-in wig-wag
function).

The AeroSUN 1600 sells for $350 for one light, or $650 for a pair of
them.

For more information please visit our website.

Dean Wilkinson
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[RST Engineering]

Dean...

Sorry, buddy, but you've crossed that thin line between answering a question
(and I didn't see one posed) and pimping your product in this newsgroup.
The former is accepted practice; the latter is not.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford


> wrote in message
ups.com...

> Currently we are offering two versions of our AeroSUN LED lights.
>
> The AeroSUN 800 produces 800 lumens on 24 watts of power. This light

[Hilton]

RST Engineering wrote:
> Dean...
>
> Sorry, buddy, but you've crossed that thin line between answering a
> question (and I didn't see one posed) and pimping your product in this
> newsgroup. The former is accepted practice; the latter is not.

In your opinion, is it acceptable to put your company's name and/or URL in
your sig? That's not answering any question and is pimping the product -
right?'

Just curious...

Hilton


> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>> Currently we are offering two versions of our AeroSUN LED lights.
>>
>> The AeroSUN 800 produces 800 lumens on 24 watts of power. This light
>
>

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Hilton" > wrote

> In your opinion, is it acceptable to put your company's name and/or URL in
> your sig? That's not answering any question and is pimping the product -
> right?'

I think that is the thin line, that Jim is talking about.

Sig lines, OK; much more than that, not OK.

I'm a big supporter of the Aero LED's, and if a conversation about thin
comes up, then pimp away. To make a product announcement is one step over
the line tho', IMHO.
--
Jim in NC

[RST Engineering]

In my opinion, signing who you work for is one hell of a long stretch from
quoting product and price in the article for a question that wasn't asked.

Jim


> In your opinion, is it acceptable to put your company's name and/or URL in
> your sig? That's not answering any question and is pimping the product -
> right?'
>
> Just curious...
>
> Hilton

[[email protected]]

On Aug 29, 11:08 am, "RST Engineering" >
wrote:
> Dean...
>
> Sorry, buddy, but you've crossed that thin line between answering a question
> (and I didn't see one posed) and pimping your product in this newsgroup.
> The former is accepted practice; the latter is not.
>
> Jim

I'm sorry, I thought posting a reply to an existing thread would be
acceptable. Guess not...

Dean
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[Bob Noel]

In article . com>,
wrote:

> I'm sorry, I thought posting a reply to an existing thread would be
> acceptable. Guess not...

A thread you started with an annoucement, a followup from YOU,
and then your "reply". break the code.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Jon Woellhaf]

Apology accepted. However, as penitence, you now have to sell each of us who
asks a set of lights for ten percent of list. <g>

Dean wrote:
> I'm sorry, I thought posting a reply to an existing thread would be
> acceptable. Guess not...
>
> Dean
> AeroLEDs LLC
> www.aeroleds.com
>

[[email protected]]

On Aug 29, 7:12 pm, "Jon Woellhaf" > wrote:
> Apology accepted. However, as penitence, you now have to sell each of us who
> asks a set of lights for ten percent of list. <g>
>
>
>
> Dean wrote:
> > I'm sorry, I thought posting a reply to an existing thread would be
> > acceptable. Guess not...
>
> > Dean
> > AeroLEDs LLC
> >www.aeroleds.com- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

OK 10% discount... but you have to mention this thread.

Dean W
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[Darrel Toepfer]

wrote:

> OK 10% discount... but you have to mention this thread.
>
> Dean W
> AeroLEDs LLC
> www.aeroleds.com

Glad to see y'all gotten a price reduction. At Oshkosh Whelen was quoting a
better price on an as yet undelivered product (much the same as y'all
were). Course their's had 2 less LED's in it...

Nice meeting y'all there, sorry my dad and I got y'all up so early!!!

Will definitely take y'all up on this, how longs this offer last? Still
working on my project Pacer...

[[email protected]]

On Aug 29, 9:40 pm, Darrel Toepfer > wrote:
> wrote:
> > OK 10% discount... but you have to mention this thread.
>
> > Dean W
> > AeroLEDs LLC
> >www.aeroleds.com
>
> Glad to see y'all gotten a price reduction. At Oshkosh Whelen was quoting a
> better price on an as yet undelivered product (much the same as y'all
> were). Course their's had 2 less LED's in it...
>
> Nice meeting y'all there, sorry my dad and I got y'all up so early!!!
>
> Will definitely take y'all up on this, how longs this offer last? Still
> working on my project Pacer...

Hi Darryl,

It was nice meeting you as well. We'll honor the 10% discount offered
here through the end of this year. Just mention the name of this
thread. For the discount you have to purchase it from our website.

Dean
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[Hilton]

Morgans wrote:>
> Hilton wrote
>
>> In your opinion, is it acceptable to put your company's name and/or URL
>> in your sig? That's not answering any question and is pimping the
>> product - right?'
>
> I think that is the thin line, that Jim is talking about.
>
> Sig lines, OK; much more than that, not OK.
>
> I'm a big supporter of the Aero LED's, and if a conversation about thin
> comes up, then pimp away. To make a product announcement is one step over
> the line tho', IMHO.

Well, I'm seeing these ad hoc 'rules' being applied inconsistently. I don't
want to mention names and I'm not looking to 'stir', but what Dean did was
to post a few lines about his product, his efforts, and in a way his
contribution to aviation and aviation safety; yet people jump all over him.
All the while, there are some very very long posts about a 'product' that is
continually praised and somehow not regarded as spam. We get so much crap
in these NGs, for people to react this way to Dean's post was quite silly
IMHO. Shouldn't we be supporting each other on this NG if "pilots are
really different from the general population"? Every Oshkosh there are a
lot of posts about the smallest things, then there are those who quote a 10
page post with a one line reply and post the whole lot. Guys, a two line
post of "My product X sells for $99" really ain't that bad.

If I owned a plane, I'd be glad Dean mentioned his product here and I'd
seriously look into buying it. A lot more pilots read these NGs than the
announcements NG, so for Dean, or me, or anyone else to post the occasional
'product annoucement' should be encouraged.

OK, so normally I don't sig my posts for fear of these type of threads, but
what the heck... :)

Hilton Goldstein, CEO
Hilton Software LLC
Maker of Aviation Software
http://www.hiltonsoftware.com
WingX for the Pocket PC
WingX for the Smartphone - new!
-SmartTaxi Runway Incursion Prevention Technology
-METARs, TAFs, Winds Aloft, Temperature Aloft
-DUATS - briefings
-DUATS - file/close/cancel Flight Plans
-Comprehensive A/FD

OK, there, got that out of my system, back to regular programming...

[Larry Dighera]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 06:04:17 GMT, "Hilton" > wrote
in >:

>We get so much crap in these NGs, for people to react this way to
>Dean's post was quite silly IMHO.

What you fail to appreciate is, that the individual who admonished
Dean is a potential competitor who doesn't hawk his aviation wares in
this newsgroup.

Personally, I believe Dean's article announcing his new product was
within the newsgroup's charter as being aviation related information.

[Bob Noel]

In article >,
Larry Dighera > wrote:

> Personally, I believe Dean's article announcing his new product was
> within the newsgroup's charter as being aviation related information.

I guess rec.aviation.piloting is a more appropriate place to ANNOUNCE
a PRODUCT than, say, rec.aviation.marketplace or rec.aviation.products

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[El Maximo]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Dean...
>
> Sorry, buddy, but you've crossed that thin line between answering a
> question (and I didn't see one posed) and pimping your product in this
> newsgroup. The former is accepted practice; the latter is not.
>
> Jim


Things that make you go hmmmmm......

On Jun 23, 9:27 am, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
> If it is publicized and if I don't have another forum at that time and if
> there is sufficient grabber in the press release and if it isn't at 8 am
> or
> 5 pm and if we don't have another appointment, then perhaps.
>
> Why all the posing and coyness? Just tell us what you've got and if it is
> that cool then we'll make it our business to sort you out at The Show.
> Yeah, I know. You're just an engineer. Me too. But I never miss an
> opportunity to tell people about "my new baby".
>
> Jim
>

[[email protected]]

On Aug 30, 8:00 pm, "El Maximo" > wrote:
> "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > Dean...
>
> > Sorry, buddy, but you've crossed that thin line between answering a
> > question (and I didn't see one posed) and pimping your product in this
> > newsgroup. The former is accepted practice; the latter is not.
>
> > Jim
>
> Things that make you go hmmmmm......
>
> On Jun 23, 9:27 am, "RST Engineering" > wrote:
>
>
>
> > If it is publicized and if I don't have another forum at that time and if
> > there is sufficient grabber in the press release and if it isn't at 8 am
> > or
> > 5 pm and if we don't have another appointment, then perhaps.
>
> > Why all the posing and coyness? Just tell us what you've got and if it is
> > that cool then we'll make it our business to sort you out at The Show.
> > Yeah, I know. You're just an engineer. Me too. But I never miss an
> > opportunity to tell people about "my new baby".
>
> > Jim- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

You noticed that too, eh? I'm not sure what Jim's beef is with me,
but I don't seem to be getting consistent messages from him on R.A.P.

Oh well...

Dean