Heart trouble

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It
came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
all. But apparently I have developed something called an atrial
fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall
see.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Tina]

Re a-fib, very very common. May not screw up your medical, There are
meds that work to control it, but ablation seems like a sure cure for
many. If it's serious you MUST get onto an aggressive anticoagulant,
check with your MD. Coumadin is most often used.


You'll be told a-fib is not life threatening, that no one dies of it.
That's true, BUT that turbulant blood flow can cause clots, and those
can cause strokes, that's why an anti coagulant is needed.

Treat this a a layman's advice, but check with your doctor. There are
good heart places, and then most others. Be sure you're seeing one of
the best.



lantOn Jul 13, 10:36 am, C J Campbell
> wrote:
> It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It
> came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
> all. But apparently I have developed something called an atrial
> fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall
> see.
> --
> Waddling Eagle
> World Famous Flight Instructor

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-13 07:46:03 -0700, Tina > said:

> Re a-fib, very very common. May not screw up your medical, There are
> meds that work to control it, but ablation seems like a sure cure for
> many. If it's serious you MUST get onto an aggressive anticoagulant,
> check with your MD. Coumadin is most often used.
>
>
> You'll be told a-fib is not life threatening, that no one dies of it.
> That's true, BUT that turbulant blood flow can cause clots, and those
> can cause strokes, that's why an anti coagulant is needed.

Hah! Not exactly comforting. I got extremely small veins, you know. It
takes 'em four or five tries to get a blood test. :-)

They gave me Warfarin, which is a coumadin derivative.

I think that is the main thing -- making sure that:
a) Whatever caused it is not life threatening, it coming on so suddenly and
b) Whatever medication they give me doesn't ground me.


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Dale[_3_]]

In article <2007071307362816807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom>,
C J Campbell > wrote:

> It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It
> came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
> all. But apparently I have developed something called an atrial
> fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall
> see.

BT,DT with the A-fib. A-fib is the most common arythmia...not a big
deal in most cases.

I had a bought of A-fib back in '03. I had to have several tests done.
One is the wearing of a 24 hour heart monitor (they'll want to know if
it happens a lot or if it was a one time deal). I had to have an
echocardiagram done (sonogram of the heart) to make sure the hearts
structure was good. In my case (I have very good insurance) we also did
a heart catherization. I did a stress EKG also.

In my case it was determined to be "lone a-fib" and the local head AME
signed me off to get back in the cockpit. A-fib is very common and even
guys with Class 1 medicals have it and are still flying.

My suggestions:

Find a GOOD cardiologist that specializes in electro physciology. A fib
is a wiring problem, it is not a plumbing problem.

Find an AME that specializes in working with the FAA on "problem"
medicals. These folks are worth their weight in gold.

For me things went south 18 months ago. I was diagnosed with Brugada
Syndrome and have been grounded. Supposedly my file is in DC being
reviewed but I don't have any hope of it being reinstated....I've
started looking at sailboats for sail. <G>

Re: your condition and Brugada. If you haven't already, Google A-fib
and Brugada. A-fib is very common in Brugada folks. Brugada usually
kills you so make sure that isn't an issue.

[Stubby[_2_]]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:2007071307362816807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It
> came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
> all. But apparently I have developed something called an atrial
> fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall
> see.

The exact same thing happened to me. Other responders discuss the
treatments, etc.
But, when I saw my AME, I told him the I had developed A-fib. He said, "You
didn't put it on your application for your Medical Certificate, did you?"
Well, I did. He explained that he wanted to work with me on the exact
wording as to not put up a red flag for the FAA.

The FAA has not asked me for any additional documentation, so I suppose I
passed. Also, because I don't notice any symptoms, I have not asked for a
"conversion" to get the rhythm back to normal -- too scary!

[Larry Dighera]

Sorry to hear it.

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:36:28 -0700, C J Campbell
> wrote in
<2007071307362816807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom>:

>It came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
>all.

What prompted the EKG last December?

[Tina]

Warfarin is the genetic version of Coumadin. The anti coag clinics
around Duke University Hospital like to Rx Coumadin since they say its
results are a little more predictable -- fewer batch to batch
variations.

The INR test, which is used to measure the effectiveness of the
warfarin, can be be done with a finger stick drop of blood. If your
facility is doing a venipuncture, they are a bit outdated. Find
another anti coag clinic if your place has trouble finding a reliable
vein.

Warfarin is very good, BUT! You have to eat a fairly steady diet of
greens, you can't have a lot one week and none the next, the INR will
go all over the place.

Also, if you get a cold or start throwing up, or do some heavy
workouts that are uncommon, your INRs can really go from the useful
range (2 to 3, more or less) to 10 or more, and that's getting to
where you can have internal bleeding. Just be aware, if you suddenly
start bruising easily or bleeding a lot when you floss, or have black
stools, to go have your INR checked. Don't wait. Be really aware if
you suddenly change your diet. These things happen very rarely, the
chances are small that they will happen to you, but you want to be
aware and alert anyhow.

The data goes something like this: if you don't take an anti coagulant
like warfarin, your chances of stroking can be about 10 or 12% a year.
If you do take it, your chances are less than the average person of
your age and condition (which might be 3 or 5% a year). Oh, and
aspirin is only about a third as effective as warfarin.

The meds that are often suggested to control a-fib have some evidence
of working, at least for a while. Tikosyn, for example, seems to work
for many people for a couple of years.

A-fib becomes increasingly common as we age, it may not go away on
its own. Only in really bad cases will someone become light headed or
pass out. I don't know anything about FAA physicals but if you're
asymptomatic I'd guess the outlook would be good. You didn't even know
you had it until you took a routine EKG, right?.

One last thing. RF ablation (which may in the next decade become the
standard of care for a-fib) is done on an out patient basis at Duke.

Remember, I'm a non professional source of information, validate what
I say with your electrocardiologist. And by all means you should be
talking with one of those, and not a cardiologist. Although a
cardiologist can be helpful, it would be much better to deal with
someone who is more in tune with the electrophysology of your heart.


Tina

[Hilton]

How do you know if you have a-fib? i.e. how did you know to go to the doc?
Do you feel faint, or a vibration in your chest?

Just curious.

Hilton


"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:2007071307362816807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It came
> on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at all. But
> apparently I have developed something called an atrial fibrillation. It
> doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall see.
> --
> Waddling Eagle
> World Famous Flight Instructor
>

[Allen[_1_]]

"Tina" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Warfarin is the genetic version of Coumadin. The anti coag clinics
> around Duke University Hospital like to Rx Coumadin since they say its
> results are a little more predictable -- fewer batch to batch
> variations.
>
When I was a kid on the farm Warfarin was in the bait we set out for the
rats (not that I am implying anything here). Sorry to hear this CJ.

Allen

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-13 12:33:16 -0700, "Allen" > said:

>
> "Tina" > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>> Warfarin is the genetic version of Coumadin. The anti coag clinics
>> around Duke University Hospital like to Rx Coumadin since they say its
>> results are a little more predictable -- fewer batch to batch
>> variations.
>>
> When I was a kid on the farm Warfarin was in the bait we set out for the
> rats (not that I am implying anything here). Sorry to hear this CJ.
>
> Allen

Oh good. Rat poison. Maybe I could save a ton of money by a trip out to
the garage...
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-13 10:32:29 -0700, Larry Dighera > said:

>
> Sorry to hear it.
>
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:36:28 -0700, C J Campbell
> > wrote in
> <2007071307362816807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom>:
>
>> It came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
>> all.
>
> What prompted the EKG last December?

I had pneumonia and, because I had been in the Philippines for an
extended period, the doctor wanted to make sure I had not picked up
some strange tropical illness and that the coughing was not caused by a
heart problem.

So I guess lawyers prompted the EKG last December. :-)
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-13 12:25:22 -0700, "Hilton" > said:

> How do you know if you have a-fib? i.e. how did you know to go to the doc?
> Do you feel faint, or a vibration in your chest?
>
> Just curious.
>
> Hilton

I had, of all things, an earache. So I went in to see if my ear was
infected. It was not -- just impacted ear wax, but the nurse took my
pulse and the next thing I knew I was getting an EKG.



--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Ken Finney]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:2007071313014550073-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> On 2007-07-13 12:25:22 -0700, "Hilton" > said:
>
>> How do you know if you have a-fib? i.e. how did you know to go to the
>> doc?
>> Do you feel faint, or a vibration in your chest?
>>
>> Just curious.
>>
>> Hilton
>
> I had, of all things, an earache. So I went in to see if my ear was
> infected. It was not -- just impacted ear wax, but the nurse took my pulse
> and the next thing I knew I was getting an EKG.
>

Of course. If they didn't, they couldn't charge you, and it takes a lot of
income to cover the lease payment on the machine that goes "Ping!".

;^)

[Hilton]

That's pretty funny. After reading your first line, my head went into
overdrive thinking how a-fib's side effects could cause earache. :)

Hope it all works out CJ.

Hilton


"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:2007071313014550073-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> On 2007-07-13 12:25:22 -0700, "Hilton" > said:
>
>> How do you know if you have a-fib? i.e. how did you know to go to the
>> doc?
>> Do you feel faint, or a vibration in your chest?
>>
>> Just curious.
>>
>> Hilton
>
> I had, of all things, an earache. So I went in to see if my ear was
> infected. It was not -- just impacted ear wax, but the nurse took my pulse
> and the next thing I knew I was getting an EKG.
>
>
>
> --
> Waddling Eagle
> World Famous Flight Instructor
>

[RomeoMike]

Tina wrote:

>
> etc...The INR test, which is used to measure the effectiveness of the
> warfarin, can be be done with a finger stick drop of blood. If your
> facility is doing a venipuncture, they are a bit outdated. Find
> another anti coag clinic if your place has trouble finding a reliable
> vein...etc


Whoa! Where's all this medical advice coming from? :) Also, it's quite
possible that tests other than an INR were ordered, requiring a
venipuncture as opposed to a finger stick. No point in making the guy
lose confidence in his facility without more reason.

[Montblack]

("Tina" wrote)
> Re a-fib, very very common. May not screw up your medical, There are meds
> that work to control it, but ablation seems like a sure cure for many. If
> it's serious you MUST get onto an aggressive anticoagulant, check with
> your MD. Coumadin is most often used.


Ablation?

ab·la·tion (a-bla'sh?n) n.

1. Surgical excision or amputation of a body part or tissue.

2. The erosive processes by which a glacier is reduced.

(NAC) Necessary Aviation Content

3. Aerospace:
a.) The dissipation of heat generated by atmospheric friction, especially
in the atmospheric reentry of a spacecraft or missile, by means of a melting
heat shield.
b.) The reduction or removal of heat-protective surface material by
aerodynamic friction, as from a heat shield.

Whatever is wrong with you, good luck Mormie! <g>


Paul-Mont

[Tina]

On Jul 13, 7:00 pm, RomeoMike > wrote:
> Tina wrote:
>
> > etc...The INR test, which is used to measure the effectiveness of the
> > warfarin, can be be done with a finger stick drop of blood. If your
> > facility is doing a venipuncture, they are a bit outdated. Find
> > another anti coag clinic if your place has trouble finding a reliable
> > vein...etc
>
> Whoa! Where's all this medical advice coming from? :) Also, it's quite
> possible that tests other than an INR were ordered, requiring a
> venipuncture as opposed to a finger stick. No point in making the guy
> lose confidence in his facility without more reason.

[Tina]

1: INRs would most likely be done every couple of weeks until the
correct dosages are found, and it's a moving target. Most clinics, I
think, will not be following other values, but I could be wrong about
that. Finger sticks are a lot better than getting stuck in a vein.

2. Warfarin is in fact a rat poison, it causes internal bleeding.
That's why the dosages must be carefully controlled. One would not
like to trade a block induced stroke for a bleeding one, would one?
Having said that, it is commonly used and very effective.,

3: Regarding ablation -- look up radio frequency ablation, you'll
discover it's a way of scarring those parts of the heart, or more
often the large vein leading into it, where the electrical impulses
that are triggering the a-fib are starting. Scars don't conduct the
impulses.

Finally, as I said several times, I am not an expert, he can, as can
you, treat this information as he or you chooses. It may lead to some
questions Chris would like to ask his MD.

Or not.

It's up to him.

[Montblack]

("C J Campbell" wrote)
> Oh good. Rat poison. Maybe I could save a ton of money by a trip out to
> the garage...


"Don't forget the rat poison on the way home dear, and remember - you have
another botulinum toxin appointment at 10:00 tomorrow morning."


Paul-Mont

[RomeoMike]

Tina wrote:
> 1: INRs would most likely be done every couple of weeks until the
> correct dosages are found, and it's a moving target. Most clinics, I
> think, will not be following other values, but I could be wrong about
> that. Finger sticks are a lot better than getting stuck in a vein.


Did you read what I said about the possibility of other tests being
ordered necessitating a larger blood sample?
>
> 2. Warfarin is in fact a rat poison, it causes internal bleeding.
> That's why the dosages must be carefully controlled. One would not
> like to trade a block induced stroke for a bleeding one, would one?
> Having said that, it is commonly used and very effective.,

Coumadin and any other blood thinner can cause internal bleeding as well
and need to be monitored.
>
> 3: Regarding ablation -- look up radio frequency ablation, you'll
> discover it's a way of scarring those parts of the heart, or more
> often the large vein leading into it, where the electrical impulses
> that are triggering the a-fib are starting. Scars don't conduct the
> impulses.

I don't need to look it up.
>
> Finally, as I said several times, I am not an expert, he can, as can
> you, treat this information as he or you chooses. It may lead to some
> questions Chris would like to ask his MD.
>
> Or not.
>
> It's up to him.
>

And I'm sure he is smart enough to know that. But you're sounding a
little like MX when he Googles something he's totally ignorant of, then
comes on here
expounding like a real expert. This isn't amateur night on a medical
newsgroup.

Cheers

[Montblack]

("RomeoMike" wrote)
> This isn't amateur night on a medical newsgroup.


How do you to get to Carnegie Hall?

From the Carnegie Hall website:
"While it takes some [Doctors] a lifetime of practice to get to Carnegie
Hall (as the saying goes), others just have to follow these simple
directions."


Paul-Mont :-)

[Dave S]

RomeoMike wrote:

>
>
> Whoa! Where's all this medical advice coming from? :) Also, it's quite
> possible that tests other than an INR were ordered, requiring a
> venipuncture as opposed to a finger stick. No point in making the guy
> lose confidence in his facility without more reason.
>
>
>

Its highly unlikely that any other lab testing is being done on an
outpatient basis AT THIS POINT other than an INR. Thats my opinion based
on 18 years in the emergency and critical care fields of healthcare.

Also, for what its worth, I have not heard of any of the hospitals or
outpatient labs in the greater Houston area doing fingerstick INR's, nor
have I had a patient indicate or ask why we arent "pricking their
finger, like at the lab". 4th largest population center in the US, and
I've worked all over it.

Up to this point, I've agreed with everything Tina has said. Its pretty
much on the mark. Afib, when properly anticoagulated, has minimal risk
of sudden incapacitation. This may not be as big of a hindrance as CJ is
worried about.

Dave, RN

[Dave S]

RomeoMike wrote:
.. This isn't amateur night on a medical
> newsgroup.
>
> Cheers

Im not an amatuer. Shes correct.

[Dave S]

Hilton wrote:
> That's pretty funny. After reading your first line, my head went into
> overdrive thinking how a-fib's side effects could cause earache. :)
>
> Hope it all works out CJ.
>
> Hilton
>

This.. is a good example of whats caused an "incidental finding"

Dave

[Viperdoc[_3_]]

Have to agree with Tina- as a matter of my daily practice, I put hundreds of
people on coumadin every year. It does require careful monitoring,
particularly when first started.

Chemical (via drugs) and electrical (cardioversion) are still used to
convert new onset a-fib. There is probably a bigger risk from the chronic
coumadin usage than the underlying a-fib.

[Doug Vetter]

Allen wrote:.
> When I was a kid on the farm Warfarin was in the bait we set out for the
> rats (not that I am implying anything here). Sorry to hear this CJ.

Check out Aviatrix's blog (particularly the archives from 3-6 months
ago) for similar comments and one pilot's experience with Warfarin.
Take her account with a grain of salt, however, as she's Canadian, and
their medical standards are apparently far more strict than in the US.

http://airplanepilot.blogspot.com/

-Doug

--
--------------------
Doug Vetter, ATP/CFI

http://www.dvatp.com
--------------------

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-13 18:22:45 -0700, Dave S > said:

> Hilton wrote:
>> That's pretty funny. After reading your first line, my head went into
>> overdrive thinking how a-fib's side effects could cause earache. :)
>>
>> Hope it all works out CJ.
>>
>> Hilton
>>
>
> This.. is a good example of whats caused an "incidental finding"
>
> Dave

Well, you know -- it was not just the earache. I had been having this
earache off and on for a few weeks. And I was dizzy, like with an ear
infection. But I was too busy to do much about it and figured it would
go away.

So, I suppose the earache was from the wax buildup. The dizziness might
have been caused by the a-fib.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Dave S]

C J Campbell wrote:

> So, I suppose the earache was from the wax buildup. The dizziness might
> have been caused by the a-fib.

More than likely was - the dizziness, that is.

From a pumping standpoint, your ventricles do the majority of the
pumping work. After a heartbeat, they relax and passively refill while
waiting for the next beat.(remember this occurs 60-80 times a minute in
a healthy person at rest). In healthy people, this passive refilling
accounts for about 70% of the amount of blood that will be pumped on the
next beat/contraction.

The atria contribute an additional 30% or so by actively contracting,
and filling the ventricles fully just immediately before the ventricles
contract.

This atrial kick therefore accounts for about 30% of your cardiac
output. In individuals without a large "reserve" in cardiac ability,
this 30% can make the difference between something like a-fib being an
annoyance or a true problem. As a general rule, the unhealthier someone
is from a cardiovascular standpoint, the less able they are to tolerate
this problem.

Your dizziness does not mean you tolerated it poorly, per se, but it was
likely a symptom, and it could be fair to say you were "symptomatic"

Some examples of very poorly tolerating it would be passing out,
having chest pain, poor exercise tolerance to the point you cant even
walk from the bed to the bathroom without stopping to get your breath.

[Big John]

CJ

Welcome to the crowd.

I have A-FIB. Had abulation (burning) and also cutting the nerves in
upper chamber with a knife. Both were done through an arterie and not
open heart surgery.

Bad news is that neither procedure fixed my A-fib and have been living
with it for 7-8 years.

Have gone through 3 pacemakers and latest 2 months ago is like
Cheney's with a defib in it. Current one also three leads from it to
upper and lower chambers of heart.

I asked my surgeon how long I would live and he said until I die :o(
Didn't think that was a very good answer for what he got to put the
pacemaker in.

Prior pacemaker only had two leads and it fired the upper chamber and
then the lower chamber which was supposed to give normal blood flow. I
didn't feel any problems with it but they said I had a lazy heart and
needed a new one with defib????????

I'm not restricted from driving but am sure would not pass the
physical for my commercial/instructor ticket.

I am on coumadin (blood thinner) and just touch something and bleed.
Have scars from this on both arms. If I'm doing any work I wear rubber
gloves to prevent fingers and hands from bleeding.

If I can answer any questions let me know. You can go off line to my
e-mail address at top of this post.

Good luck.

Big John
************************************************** *****

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:36:28 -0700, C J Campbell
> wrote:

>It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It
>came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
>all. But apparently I have developed something called an atrial
>fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall
>see.

[Big John]

CJ

Warfarin is the name brand and more expensive. Coumadin is the generic
and much cheaper if you are paying out of pocket. Also most HMO's only
pay for the generic. Both seem to work OK.

Big John
************************************

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:11:39 -0700, C J Campbell
> wrote:

>On 2007-07-13 07:46:03 -0700, Tina > said:
>
>> Re a-fib, very very common. May not screw up your medical, There are
>> meds that work to control it, but ablation seems like a sure cure for
>> many. If it's serious you MUST get onto an aggressive anticoagulant,
>> check with your MD. Coumadin is most often used.
>>
>>
>> You'll be told a-fib is not life threatening, that no one dies of it.
>> That's true, BUT that turbulant blood flow can cause clots, and those
>> can cause strokes, that's why an anti coagulant is needed.
>
>Hah! Not exactly comforting. I got extremely small veins, you know. It
>takes 'em four or five tries to get a blood test. :-)
>
>They gave me Warfarin, which is a coumadin derivative.
>
>I think that is the main thing -- making sure that:
>a) Whatever caused it is not life threatening, it coming on so suddenly and
>b) Whatever medication they give me doesn't ground me.

[RomeoMike]

Dave S wrote:
> RomeoMike wrote:
> . This isn't amateur night on a medical
>> newsgroup.
>>
>> Cheers
>
> Im not an amatuer. Shes correct.

I'm not an amateur either. I'm basically asking why someone who is not
qualified goes to such lengths to give a dissertation on something this
complicated that has an affect on another person's health. While it was
not necessarily incorrect in a general sense, it may not have been
totally correct when applied to CJ's case.

[RomeoMike]

Viperdoc wrote:
> Have to agree with Tina- as a matter of my daily practice, I put hundreds of
> people on coumadin every year. It does require careful monitoring,
> particularly when first started.
>
> Chemical (via drugs) and electrical (cardioversion) are still used to
> convert new onset a-fib. There is probably a bigger risk from the chronic
> coumadin usage than the underlying a-fib.
>

I didn't say otherwise. In fact I said it required monitoring.

[RomeoMike]

Dave S wrote:
> RomeoMike wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Whoa! Where's all this medical advice coming from? :) Also, it's quite
>> possible that tests other than an INR were ordered, requiring a
>> venipuncture as opposed to a finger stick. No point in making the guy
>> lose confidence in his facility without more reason.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Its highly unlikely that any other lab testing is being done on an
> outpatient basis AT THIS POINT other than an INR. Thats my opinion based
> on 18 years in the emergency and critical care fields of healthcare.

Well, you may be right, but your experience has little to say about
whether that's the case here. Your experience should have taught you not
to generalize to specific cases that you are not familiar with.


>
> Up to this point, I've agreed with everything Tina has said. Its pretty
> much on the mark. Afib, when properly anticoagulated, has minimal risk
> of sudden incapacitation. This may not be as big of a hindrance as CJ is
> worried about.

I would rather that a cardiologist familiar with the case at hand give
that assurance. But that's just me.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"RomeoMike" > wrote

> I'm not an amateur either. I'm basically asking why someone who is not
> qualified goes to such lengths to give a dissertation on something this
> complicated that has an affect on another person's health. While it was not
> necessarily incorrect in a general sense, it may not have been totally correct
> when applied to CJ's case.

Whoa, everyone!

You are all getting ahead of yourself.

He said that he had small veins, based on how hard it is to get a good stick.
He NEVER, repeat NEVER said he was getting a veinipuncture for checking his
levels at this current time.

Quoted from his previous post:

Hah! Not exactly comforting. I got extremely small veins, you know. It
takes 'em four or five tries to get a blood test. :-)

They gave me Warfarin, which is a coumadin derivative.

End Quote
--
Jim in NC

[RomeoMike]

Morgans wrote:
>
> "RomeoMike" > wrote
>
>> I'm not an amateur either. I'm basically asking why someone who is not
>> qualified goes to such lengths to give a dissertation on something
>> this complicated that has an affect on another person's health. While
>> it was not necessarily incorrect in a general sense, it may not have
>> been totally correct when applied to CJ's case.
>
> Whoa, everyone!
>
> You are all getting ahead of yourself.
>
> He said that he had small veins, based on how hard it is to get a good
> stick. He NEVER, repeat NEVER said he was getting a veinipuncture for
> checking his levels at this current time.
>
> Quoted from his previous post:
>
> Hah! Not exactly comforting. I got extremely small veins, you know. It
> takes 'em four or five tries to get a blood test. :-)
>
> They gave me Warfarin, which is a coumadin derivative.
>
> End Quote

You are correct, but my post that you responded to was referring to the
two dissertations of Tina in general. In >another< post I gave a
>possible< reason why a larger blood sample than a finger stick might
be needed, again in response to Tina, who appeared to me to be putting
down a lab that would do a venipuncture for an INR.

[Mxsmanic]

C J Campbell writes:

> It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It
> came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
> all. But apparently I have developed something called an atrial
> fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall
> see.

That's where flight simulation comes in handy.

[Mxsmanic]

Allen writes:

> When I was a kid on the farm Warfarin was in the bait we set out for the
> rats (not that I am implying anything here).

It was used because it causes massive and fatal bleeding in the rats.

[James Sleeman]

C J Campbell wrote:
> fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status,

P'shaw, plenty of other ways to get high, Sport Pilot, Ultralight,
Lawn Chair...

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Big John wrote:
> CJ
>
> Warfarin is the name brand and more expensive. Coumadin is the generic
> and much cheaper if you are paying out of pocket. Also most HMO's only
> pay for the generic. Both seem to work OK.
> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 09:11:39 -0700, C J Campbell
> > wrote:
>> They gave me Warfarin, which is a coumadin derivative.


Uh... I think you that backwards. Coumadin is the name brand for generic
Warfarin. It is NOT a derivitive... it is exactly the same thing. Some people
have noted the active ingedient is rat poison. <G>



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Big John wrote:
> I am on coumadin (blood thinner) and just touch something and bleed.
> Have scars from this on both arms. If I'm doing any work I wear rubber
> gloves to prevent fingers and hands from bleeding.


Has your doc considered adjusting your dosage? Are you getting regular lab
draws to see what your INR is?



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

In addition to expert pilot, FAA representative, and breast feeding
instructor he's now a pharmacologist?

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

Coumadin is the chemical name, while Warfarin was the trade name. It derived
from Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation, where the drug was first
investigated.

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-13 20:21:49 -0700, RomeoMike > said:

>
>
> Dave S wrote:
>> RomeoMike wrote:
>> . This isn't amateur night on a medical
>>> newsgroup.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>
>> Im not an amatuer. Shes correct.
>
> I'm not an amateur either. I'm basically asking why someone who is not
> qualified goes to such lengths to give a dissertation on something this
> complicated that has an affect on another person's health. While it was
> not necessarily incorrect in a general sense, it may not have been
> totally correct when applied to CJ's case.

Ah, guys. Really. No need to argue about whether people want to be
helpful or not. I will end up following my doctor's advice anyway.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Tina]

Chris, I came across this website that you may find comforting.


http://afanswers.com/treatment.html

[Jules]

RomeoMike wrote:
But you're sounding a
> little like MX

Not in the least.
You sound like something.....

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"RomeoMike" wrote:
> But you're sounding a little like MX when he Googles something
> he's totally ignorant of, then comes on here expounding like
> a real expert.

Baloney. Tina has very carefully qualified everything she's said to Chris
about his condition.


> This isn't amateur night on a medical newsgroup.
>
> Cheers

Cheers? Jeez...how do you sign off when you *really* insult someone?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[karl gruber[_1_]]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:2007071406000816807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> On 2007-07-13 20:21:49 -0700, RomeoMike >
> said:
>
Good luck CJ, you'll fly again.

Just in the past month I've talked with two pilots who have their medical
back after heart surgery. One has a pacemaker and the other had a triple
bypass.

The triple bypass gentleman rebuilds Cubs. He had a Super Cub completed and
was running the engine up when he had his heart attack. He passed out but
the airplane took off, climbed to about 400 feet and then veered over and
crashed. Roger broke most of his bones in the crash...............but called
me about 2 months ago with the good news about his medical. He is selling
his Skywagon. It's a good one. Never been wrecked. I bought it brand new in
1969. After your episode is over, I know you are looking for a plane!

Karl

[Tina]

Dan, this is the internet: anything goes, and buyer beware. Romeo Mike
is intitled to his opinions (wrong as they are -- smile).

Tina


On Jul 14, 9:45 am, "Dan Luke" > wrote:
> "RomeoMike" wrote:
> > But you're sounding a little like MX when he Googles something
> > he's totally ignorant of, then comes on here expounding like
> > a real expert.
>
> Baloney. Tina has very carefully qualified everything she's said to Chris
> about his condition.
>
> > This isn't amateur night on a medical newsgroup.
>
> > Cheers
>
> Cheers? Jeez...how do you sign off when you *really* insult someone?
>
> --
> Dan
> T-182T at BFM

[RomeoMike]

Tina wrote:
> Dan, this is the internet: anything goes, and buyer beware. Romeo Mike
> is intitled to his opinions (wrong as they are -- smile).
>
> Tina

OK, I'm curious. By wrong I assume you mean incorrect. Specifically what
did I say that was "wrong"? Please use quotes.

[Big John]

MS

I had a series of blood drawn from arm (not finger)to test. I'm taking
the lest level I can (4 mg) to prevent blood clots in heart from
pacemaker leads.

Also after last two surgeries, they shocked my heart (with the big
paddles they use to restart heart if it stops) and it went back in
rhythm for a day and a half each time and then fell back into A-Fib
:o(

Each case is different so (CJ) get all the options before you go with
any.

Big John
************************************************

On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 05:14:08 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
<mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote:

>Big John wrote:
>> I am on coumadin (blood thinner) and just touch something and bleed.
>> Have scars from this on both arms. If I'm doing any work I wear rubber
>> gloves to prevent fingers and hands from bleeding.
>
>
>Has your doc considered adjusting your dosage? Are you getting regular lab
>draws to see what your INR is?

[Allen[_1_]]

"James Sleeman" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> C J Campbell wrote:
> > fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status,
>
> P'shaw, plenty of other ways to get high, Sport Pilot, Ultralight,
> Lawn Chair...

And he can still instruct without a medical, just not where he is required
to be pilot-in-command.

Allen

[Tina]

On Jul 14, 11:34 am, RomeoMike > wrote:
> Tina wrote:
> > Dan, this is the internet: anything goes, and buyer beware. Romeo Mike
> > is intitled to his opinions (wrong as they are -- smile).
>
> > Tina
>
> OK, I'm curious. By wrong I assume you mean incorrect. Specifically what
> did I say that was "wrong"? Please use quotes.

Well, how about this?

"But you're sounding a
little like MX when he Googles something he's totally ignorant of,
then
comes on here".

It may have appeared so to you, but not to others. You, by the way,
have no idea of my credentials in this area, but I did indicate early
and often I was not expert, and suggested early and often the points I
had been making would be worth considering when discussing the case
with his MD.

Is this going to be some form of a 'he said' 'she said' contest? I
choose not to play.

Tina

[Milen E. Lazarov]

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.aviation.piloting.]
On 2007-07-14, Doug Vetter > wrote:
> Check out Aviatrix's blog (particularly the archives from 3-6 months
> ago) for similar comments and one pilot's experience with Warfarin.
> Take her account with a grain of salt, however, as she's Canadian, and
> their medical standards are apparently far more strict than in the US.
>
> http://airplanepilot.blogspot.com/
>
> -Doug
>

I had the same problem as her this winter but in the USA. Things are much
better hre, from pilot's pint of view. You can get a special issuance
medical even while on coumadin - it requires 4 INR test withing the target
range out 5 in the last month before getting the medical. Once you're off
it, you still need a special issuance but you need different blood work -
pretty much anything related to blood coagulation, which may be a bit
expensive. Since I was on the coumadin only for 3 months, I just waited to
get off it and went for my medical after that - currently I have a non-
restricted class 1. So it's certainly better and easier for pilots here
than in Canada. And good luck your heart problems!

--

SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

[RomeoMike]

Tina wrote:

>
> Well, how about this
>
> "But you're sounding a
> little like MX when he Googles something he's totally ignorant of,
> then
> comes on here".


OK, I apologize. I should have inserted "to me" so that it read, "But
you're sounding to me like..." Then it would have been more obvious that
it was my opinion.
>
> It may have appeared so to you, but not to others. You, by the way,
> have no idea of my credentials in this area, but I did indicate early
> and often I was not expert, and suggested early and often the points I
> had been making would be worth considering when discussing the case
> with his MD.

My point was that when someone posts on something important (like air
safety or medical issues, for example) it's legitimate, even on Usenet,
to inquire as to the source of that info or wonder about the credentials
of the poster. That's why I initially asked, "Where is all this medical
advice coming from?" I got no direct answer to that specific question
which increased my suspicions that the info was coming from the internet
or indirectly from a third party. And knowing that gives me a better
idea where to file the info.

I'd say "cheers," but that might offend someone. :)

[Jules]

RomeoMike wrote:
That's why I initially asked, "Where is all this medical
> advice coming from?" I got no direct answer


Direct answer???? Ha you waited 5 hours then wrote...

>>"I'm basically asking why someone who is not qualified"


Tina, has a life.
It's obvious what you were basically trying to do.
And if the truth were known here, she's pretty qualified.

If you want out of a hole, stop using the shovel, try a ladder?

"Class" and credibility points, awarded to Tina.

[RomeoMike]

Jules wrote:

>
>
> Direct answer???? Ha you waited 5 hours then wrote...
>
> >>"I'm basically asking why someone who is not qualified"

Go back and re-read the flow of posts. She answered my post with three
numbered statements, none of which answered the question of where the
info she gave was coming from.


> And if the truth were known here, she's pretty qualified.

Please elaborate.

[Jules]

RomeoMike wrote:

>> And if the truth were known here, she's pretty qualified.
>
>
> Please elborate.
>

It means; if you knew who she was, you would stop digging and use the
ladder. (A polite way of saying you would shut up.) She has obvious
reasons for not saying, but you wouldn't understand such reasons and I
won't waste any more of your valuable internet time. Well, mine actually.

Heeeeay, aren't you really this "MX" fellow?

No, don't tell me, I don't care.

You've baited me enough.

[RomeoMike]

Jules wrote:

>>
>
> It means; if you knew who she was, you would stop digging and use the
> ladder. (A polite way of saying you would shut up.) She has obvious
> reasons for not saying, but you wouldn't understand such reasons and I
> won't waste any more of your valuable internet time. Well, mine actually.
>
> Heeeeay, aren't you really this "MX" fellow?
>
> No, don't tell me, I don't care.
>
> You've baited me enough.

Actually, you baited me, and I've been more polite about it. No matter,
Google is my friend also, and I figured it out. Appears my instincts
were correct. Thanks, but don't need the ladder. Should all be flying
anyway.

[Mxsmanic]

Viperdoc writes:

> In addition to expert pilot, FAA representative, and breast feeding
> instructor he's now a pharmacologist?

No, simply well informed.

[Mxsmanic]

Jules writes:

> It means; if you knew who she was, you would stop digging and use the
> ladder. (A polite way of saying you would shut up.) She has obvious
> reasons for not saying, but you wouldn't understand such reasons and I
> won't waste any more of your valuable internet time. Well, mine actually.

In other words, you're making things up.

[Viperdoc[_3_]]

No, you're an idiot who thinks he knows a lot more than he does, and has an
overinflated ego.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Viperdoc wrote:
> Coumadin is the chemical name, while Warfarin was the trade name. It derived
> from Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation, where the drug was first
> investigated.


Have I lost my mind? Here's something from the prescribing information page of:

http://www.bms.com/cgi-bin/anybin.pl?sql=select%20PPI%20from%20TB_PRODUCT_PPI %20where%20PPI_SEQ=91&key=PPI


DESCRIPTION

COUMADIN (crystalline warfarin sodium) is an anticoagulant which acts by
inhibiting vitamin K-dependent

coagulation factors. Chemically, it is 3-(-acetonylbenzyl)-4-hydroxycoumarin and
is a racemic mixture of the

R- and S-enantiomers. Crystalline warfarin sodium is an isopropanol clathrate.
The crystallization of warfarin

sodium virtually eliminates trace impurities present in amorphous warfarin. Its
empirical formula is C19 H15 NaO4,

and its structural formula may be represented by the following:



Looking at this, it sure looks like warfarin is the generic name and Coumadin is
the brand name. At least to me....




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Ron Rosenfeld]

On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:36:28 -0700, C J Campbell
> wrote:

>It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It
>came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
>all. But apparently I have developed something called an atrial
>fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall
>see.

If you're otherwise healthy, odds are that it will be controllable (drug
therapy) or correctable (some reversible cause; conversion; or a procedure
called ablation) and that you'll be able to fly.

How long you won't be able to fly depends on too much information to glean
here.

But, when I was in practice, I had a number of patients who had atrial
fibrillation who qualified for 2nd and 3rd class Medicals. I don't know
about 1st class Medicals -- but that's only because I did not see anyone
for whom that was an issue.

You will be best off having this treated by a Cardiologist and, if you can
find one who is also a pilot, that would be ideal.
--ron

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-14 07:02:39 -0700, "karl gruber" > said:

>
> "C J Campbell" > wrote in message
> news:2007071406000816807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
>> On 2007-07-13 20:21:49 -0700, RomeoMike >
>> said:
>>
> Good luck CJ, you'll fly again.
>
> Just in the past month I've talked with two pilots who have their medical
> back after heart surgery. One has a pacemaker and the other had a triple
> bypass.
>
> The triple bypass gentleman rebuilds Cubs. He had a Super Cub completed and
> was running the engine up when he had his heart attack. He passed out but
> the airplane took off, climbed to about 400 feet and then veered over and
> crashed. Roger broke most of his bones in the crash...............but called
> me about 2 months ago with the good news about his medical. He is selling
> his Skywagon. It's a good one. Never been wrecked. I bought it brand new in
> 1969. After your episode is over, I know you are looking for a plane!
>
> Karl

I am looking for a plane anyway!

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-14 09:21:12 -0700, "Allen" > said:

>
> "James Sleeman" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> C J Campbell wrote:
>>> fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status,
>>
>> P'shaw, plenty of other ways to get high, Sport Pilot, Ultralight,
>> Lawn Chair...
>
> And he can still instruct without a medical, just not where he is required
> to be pilot-in-command.
>
> Allen

True. Most of my 'students' are advanced ratings like commercial and
flight instructor anyway. And I can still do BFRs. I would miss the
private pilots, though.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-14 18:09:32 -0700, Ron Rosenfeld > said:

> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:36:28 -0700, C J Campbell
> > wrote:
>
>> It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It
>> came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
>> all. But apparently I have developed something called an atrial
>> fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall
>> see.
>
> If you're otherwise healthy, odds are that it will be controllable (drug
> therapy) or correctable (some reversible cause; conversion; or a procedure
> called ablation) and that you'll be able to fly.
>
> How long you won't be able to fly depends on too much information to glean
> here.

I guess I find out more Monday. I suppose some of it depends on what
caused the problem in the first place.



--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[El Maximo]

"Mxsmanic" > wrote in message
...

> In other words, you're making things up.

Pot...Kettle...Black....

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"C J Campbell" wrote:

> I am looking for a plane anyway!


Attaboy!


--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Jay Honeck]

> Ah, guys. Really. No need to argue about whether people want to be
> helpful or not. I will end up following my doctor's advice anyway.

Sorry to hear about all this, CJ. It's funny, we all feel so
invulnerable, yet in reality we're just a heartbeat away from being
grounded.

Just last week a friend of mine -- an A&P mechanic and pilot -- was
driving down I-380 with his family when his headache became much
worse, and he lost control of the left side of his body.

He was able to pull over, and his wife called 911. He was conscious
the whole time, but sounded drunk because he couldn't make his mouth
work right.

The first responders were a police unit, who (being July 4th)
immediately suspected drunk driving. Only the paramedics were able to
determine that he was having a stroke, and whisked him to the
hospital.

With immediate treatment he recovered (he was back at work three days
later, against doctors orders) amazingly quickly, but he won't be
flying again any time soon. (Last year he had a mild heart attack --
he's only 42, and isn't over-weight.)

Hang in there, CJ.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Big John]

MS

My HMO only pays for generic (if there is one) and they give me
Coumadin??????????????

Big John
************************************************** *


On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 20:53:28 -0400, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN"
<mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote:

>Viperdoc wrote:
>> Coumadin is the chemical name, while Warfarin was the trade name. It derived
>> from Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation, where the drug was first
>> investigated.
>
>
>Have I lost my mind? Here's something from the prescribing information page of:
>
>http://www.bms.com/cgi-bin/anybin.pl?sql=select%20PPI%20from%20TB_PRODUCT_PPI %20where%20PPI_SEQ=91&key=PPI
>
>
>DESCRIPTION
>
>COUMADIN (crystalline warfarin sodium) is an anticoagulant which acts by
>inhibiting vitamin K-dependent
>
>coagulation factors. Chemically, it is 3-(-acetonylbenzyl)-4-hydroxycoumarin and
>is a racemic mixture of the
>
>R- and S-enantiomers. Crystalline warfarin sodium is an isopropanol clathrate.
>The crystallization of warfarin
>
>sodium virtually eliminates trace impurities present in amorphous warfarin. Its
>empirical formula is C19 H15 NaO4,
>
>and its structural formula may be represented by the following:
>
>
>
>Looking at this, it sure looks like warfarin is the generic name and Coumadin is
>the brand name. At least to me....

[Tina]

Warfarin is the generic form. If you're getting Coumadin it may be
your MD's Rx said 'no substitutions'. I know of several anti-coag
clinics that do that, their staff claims there is greater batch to
batch variation in the warfarin than in the Coumadin. I have never
seen the charts they claim demonstrates this, so that's hear-say only.

[RomeoMike]

Big John wrote:
> MS
>
> My HMO only pays for generic (if there is one) and they give me
> Coumadin??????????????
>
> Big John

Coumadin is the brand name for warfarin sodium. Same thing. For any
doubters a source is the Physicians Desk Reference, 61st Ed., page 898.

[Tina]

If ordered as Coumadin you'll pay one price, if ordered in the generic
(unbranded) form, you'll pay a lower price. Some of the staff at the
anti coag clinic at Duke's Private Diagnostic Clinic ask their
patients to order Coumadin since they find it's easier to control
their INR. Others may have found otherwise, but the price difference
is real.

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

RomeoMike wrote:
> Big John wrote:
>> MS
>>
>> My HMO only pays for generic (if there is one) and they give me
>> Coumadin??????????????
>>
>> Big John
>
> Coumadin is the brand name for warfarin sodium. Same thing. For any
> doubters a source is the Physicians Desk Reference, 61st Ed., page 898.


Thank you. I was beginning to think I'd lost it. Though, as I think about it,
the day is still young....



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[RomeoMike]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:

>
>
> Thank you. I was beginning to think I'd lost it. Though, as I think about it,
> the day is still young....
>

From past posts, I think I remember that you really are an RN; so you
might be
interested that Coumadin is a crystallized form of warfarin sodium.
Crystallizing
the warfarin (to make Coumadin) is supposed to get rid of some
impurities that have been in some
generic warfarin preparations. But aside from that, they are chemically
the same.

[pgbnh]

There are a series of heart symptoms listed in the FAR's that constitute
cause for 'self-grounding' (see 67.). AF is not listed as a condition that
requires you to ground yourself. You can choose to, but if a cardiologist
says you are OK, then I believe you can continue to fly.
The problem comes with the next medical where you must declare the condition
and your treatment. You should expect to have to do the following:
1. Go through a maximal stress test
2. Get a letter from cardiologist indicating his/her judgement of the state
of your cardiac health as well as any and all medications.
3. Possibly produce the results of a Holter Monitor (24 hour EKG).
4. You MAY have to go the 'Special Issuance' route, which means you can plan
on doing 1,2,3 every year.

Not for AF, but I have been doing this process for the last 7 years. PITA,
but I have my medical

If you are a member, call AOPA


"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:2007071419345350073-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> On 2007-07-14 18:09:32 -0700, Ron Rosenfeld >
> said:
>
>> On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:36:28 -0700, C J Campbell
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It
>>> came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
>>> all. But apparently I have developed something called an atrial
>>> fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall
>>> see.
>>
>> If you're otherwise healthy, odds are that it will be controllable (drug
>> therapy) or correctable (some reversible cause; conversion; or a
>> procedure
>> called ablation) and that you'll be able to fly.
>>
>> How long you won't be able to fly depends on too much information to
>> glean
>> here.
>
> I guess I find out more Monday. I suppose some of it depends on what
> caused the problem in the first place.
>
>
>
> --
> Waddling Eagle
> World Famous Flight Instructor
>

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-16 14:34:46 -0700, "pgbnh" > said:

> There are a series of heart symptoms listed in the FAR's that constitute
> cause for 'self-grounding' (see 67.). AF is not listed as a condition that
> requires you to ground yourself. You can choose to, but if a cardiologist
> says you are OK, then I believe you can continue to fly.
> The problem comes with the next medical where you must declare the condition
> and your treatment. You should expect to have to do the following:
> 1. Go through a maximal stress test
> 2. Get a letter from cardiologist indicating his/her judgement of the state
> of your cardiac health as well as any and all medications.
> 3. Possibly produce the results of a Holter Monitor (24 hour EKG).
> 4. You MAY have to go the 'Special Issuance' route, which means you can plan
> on doing 1,2,3 every year.
>
> Not for AF, but I have been doing this process for the last 7 years. PITA,
> but I have my medical
>
> If you are a member, call AOPA

Thanks, everyone. You guys really are a great bunch. Now we shall see
what the cardiologist says.

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> C J Campbell writes:
>
>> It appears that I am having a little bit of trouble with my heart. It
>> came on rather suddenly, as an EKG last December showed no problem at
>> all. But apparently I have developed something called an atrial
>> fibrillation. It doesn't look good for my flying status, but we shall
>> see.
>
> That's where flight simulation comes in handy.
>



No, it doesn't

Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Jules writes:
>
>> It means; if you knew who she was, you would stop digging and use the
>> ladder. (A polite way of saying you would shut up.) She has obvious
>> reasons for not saying, but you wouldn't understand such reasons and
>> I won't waste any more of your valuable internet time. Well, mine
>> actually.
>
> In other words, you're making things up.
>


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hhawhawhawhhawhawhawhhawhawhawhhawhawhawhhawhawhaw hhawhawhawhhawhawhawh



Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Jules writes:
>
>> It means; if you knew who she was, you would stop digging and use the
>> ladder. (A polite way of saying you would shut up.) She has obvious
>> reasons for not saying, but you wouldn't understand such reasons and
>> I won't waste any more of your valuable internet time. Well, mine
>> actually.
>
> In other words, you're making things up.

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Bertie