Hillsboro Aviation

[Gatt]

Any experience with Hillsboro Aviation in Oregon?

They're hiring instructors. Not sure if it would be worth the 50% pay cut
and the additional 45 minute commute each way...

....but it just might be. I'm having one of those "Don't talk about what
I'd like to do to management on public aviation-related forums" days.

-c

[Ol Shy & Bashful]

On Jul 16, 2:16 pm, "Gatt" > wrote:
> Any experience with Hillsboro Aviation in Oregon?
>
> They're hiring instructors. Not sure if it would be worth the 50% pay cut
> and the additional 45 minute commute each way...
>
> ...but it just might be. I'm having one of those "Don't talk about what
> I'd like to do to management on public aviation-related forums" days.
>
> -c

And your point is....?

[Gatt]

"Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jul 16, 2:16 pm, "Gatt" > wrote:
>> Any experience with Hillsboro Aviation in Oregon?
>>
>> They're hiring instructors. Not sure if it would be worth the 50% pay
>> cut
>> and the additional 45 minute commute each way...
>>
>> ...but it just might be. I'm having one of those "Don't talk about what
>> I'd like to do to management on public aviation-related forums" days.
>>

> And your point is....?

Hmm. How about: "They're hiring instructors..."

-c

[Robert M. Gary]

On Jul 16, 2:45 pm, "Gatt" > wrote:
> "Ol Shy & Bashful" > wrote in oglegroups.com...
>
> > On Jul 16, 2:16 pm, "Gatt" > wrote:
> >> Any experience with Hillsboro Aviation in Oregon?
>
> >> They're hiring instructors. Not sure if it would be worth the 50% pay
> >> cut
> >> and the additional 45 minute commute each way...
>
> >> ...but it just might be. I'm having one of those "Don't talk about what
> >> I'd like to do to management on public aviation-related forums" days.
>
> > And your point is....?
>
> Hmm. How about: "They're hiring instructors..."

Who isn't?

-Robert

[Gatt]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...

>> >> ...but it just might be. I'm having one of those "Don't talk about
>> >> what
>> >> I'd like to do to management on public aviation-related forums" days.
>>
>> > And your point is....?
>>
>> Hmm. How about: "They're hiring instructors..."
>
> Who isn't?

Since it doesn't look like anybody's actually going to provide any useful
information about Hillsboro Aviation, I'll let anybody in the area who's
looking for a CFI job know what I found out:

They're ideally looking for a CFII because they don't want students to have
to transition from one instructor to another. (?!) Also, they want people
willing to work up to 12 hours a day 5-6 days a week. A student there told
me that it seems to be a CFI mill; they pay them low wages knowing that the
CFIs will bail as soon as they get their hours.

That reminds me a little too much of Radio Shack or Circuit City.
(Gutter-level salesdroids hoping to be able to add "retail sales" to their
resume.)

I'll hand the discussion back to the peanut gallery...

-c

[Chris G.]

Well, they do seem to have one of the highest rates in the area!!! I
work in Portland and don't even consider renting from them. Their rates
for a 172 are around $135-140/hr (wet). Yea, it's a glass panel, but I
don't need a glass panel for my flying--not for that much money!

Chris G., PP-ASEL
Salem, Oregon

Gatt wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>
>>>>> ...but it just might be. I'm having one of those "Don't talk about
>>>>> what
>>>>> I'd like to do to management on public aviation-related forums" days.
>>>> And your point is....?
>>> Hmm. How about: "They're hiring instructors..."
>> Who isn't?
>
> Since it doesn't look like anybody's actually going to provide any useful
> information about Hillsboro Aviation, I'll let anybody in the area who's
> looking for a CFI job know what I found out:
>
> They're ideally looking for a CFII because they don't want students to have
> to transition from one instructor to another. (?!) Also, they want people
> willing to work up to 12 hours a day 5-6 days a week. A student there told
> me that it seems to be a CFI mill; they pay them low wages knowing that the
> CFIs will bail as soon as they get their hours.
>
> That reminds me a little too much of Radio Shack or Circuit City.
> (Gutter-level salesdroids hoping to be able to add "retail sales" to their
> resume.)
>
> I'll hand the discussion back to the peanut gallery...
>
> -c
>
>

[Don Tuite]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:14:19 -0700, "Chris G." >
wrote:

>Well, they do seem to have one of the highest rates in the area!!! I
>work in Portland and don't even consider renting from them. Their rates
>for a 172 are around $135-140/hr (wet). Yea, it's a glass panel, but I
>don't need a glass panel for my flying--not for that much money!
>
Definitely not Wally Olson at Evergreen offering primary training in
Taylorcraft under the GI Bill. Sounds like a certificate mill, and
how one feels about flight training is an indicator of how well one
may get on there. Different strokes.

I doubt if they're hiring, but I flew to McMinnville the weekend
before last and got old-fashioned treatment from Cirrus Aviation
there. (Including the courtesy car).

For anyone flying Interstate 5 in CA, 100LL at Willows (Glen County)
was $3.99, self-serve. It was also 102 degrees F, but I recommend the
on-field restaurant unreservedly.

Don

[Chris G.]

Don Tuite wrote:
<snip>
> I doubt if they're hiring, but I flew to McMinnville the weekend
> before last and got old-fashioned treatment from Cirrus Aviation
> there. (Including the courtesy car).


And it's not self-serve! Actually, they're (reportedly) one of the
cheapest spots for fuel in the Valley.

Chris G.

[Gatt]

"Chris G." > wrote in message
reenews.net...
> Well, they do seem to have one of the highest rates in the area!!! I
> work in Portland and don't even consider renting from them. Their rates
> for a 172 are around $135-140/hr (wet). Yea, it's a glass panel, but I
> don't need a glass panel for my flying--not for that much money!

That's pretty stiff. (OTOH, I wonder what their instructors make. Heh.
Probably peanuts.)

One of the things that concerned me was the chief instructor's comment that
he wants CFIIs because it's too much trouble to reassign the student after
he completes his PPL, and also it's a hassle for the student to "bond" with
a new instructor.

Personally, I liked switching up instructors between Pvt and Instrument.

-c

[karl gruber[_1_]]

Wally Olson died about 8 years ago and Evergreen Airport closed last July.

Karl
Taylorcraft.....$7.00 per hr.
Wally...............$3.00 per hr.


"Don Tuite" > wrote in message
...
> On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 12:14:19 -0700, "Chris G." >
> wrote:
>
>>Well, they do seem to have one of the highest rates in the area!!! I
>>work in Portland and don't even consider renting from them. Their rates
>>for a 172 are around $135-140/hr (wet). Yea, it's a glass panel, but I
>>don't need a glass panel for my flying--not for that much money!
>>
> Definitely not Wally Olson at Evergreen offering primary training in
> Taylorcraft under the GI Bill. Sounds like a certificate mill, and
> how one feels about flight training is an indicator of how well one
> may get on there. Different strokes.
>
> I doubt if they're hiring, but I flew to McMinnville the weekend
> before last and got old-fashioned treatment from Cirrus Aviation
> there. (Including the courtesy car).
>
> For anyone flying Interstate 5 in CA, 100LL at Willows (Glen County)
> was $3.99, self-serve. It was also 102 degrees F, but I recommend the
> on-field restaurant unreservedly.
>
> Don

[Don Tuite]

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:09:57 -0700, "karl gruber"
> wrote:

>Wally Olson died about 8 years ago and Evergreen Airport closed last July.
>
>Karl
>Taylorcraft.....$7.00 per hr.
>Wally...............$3.00 per hr.
>
Yep. There'll be condos and a Starbucks at Trout Lake next.

Don

[Michael Ash]

In rec.aviation.student Gatt > wrote:
> That's pretty stiff. (OTOH, I wonder what their instructors make. Heh.
> Probably peanuts.)
>
> One of the things that concerned me was the chief instructor's comment that
> he wants CFIIs because it's too much trouble to reassign the student after
> he completes his PPL, and also it's a hassle for the student to "bond" with
> a new instructor.
>
> Personally, I liked switching up instructors between Pvt and Instrument.

I can only speak for myself but it seems to me that switching instructors
is a good thing.

Due to the club environment, I flew with half a dozen different
instructors while obtaining my PPL-G. While I had one who I considered to
be my primary instructor, I flew with the others a significant amount, and
the one who signed me off for my first solo was not my "primary".

Each new instructor brought something new and useful and I think having a
lot of them helped cover gaps which otherwise may have been missed by
sticking with just one guy. Certainly there are downsides, such as when
you get conflicting information or you end up with an instructor who is
completely clueless as to your current skills and knowledge, although my
club has a pretty good system set up to coordinate all of that. But
overall I think the good substantially outweighs the bad. The idea of
going all the way to an instrument rating while only ever flying with a
single instructor seems very strange to me.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

[Al G[_2_]]

"Chris G." > wrote in message
reenews.net...
> Well, they do seem to have one of the highest rates in the area!!! I
> work in Portland and don't even consider renting from them. Their rates
> for a 172 are around $135-140/hr (wet). Yea, it's a glass panel, but I
> don't need a glass panel for my flying--not for that much money!
>
> Chris G., PP-ASEL
> Salem, Oregon
>
> Gatt wrote:
>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
>> oups.com...
>>
>>>>>> ...but it just might be. I'm having one of those "Don't talk about
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> I'd like to do to management on public aviation-related forums" days.
>>>>> And your point is....?
>>>> Hmm. How about: "They're hiring instructors..."
>>> Who isn't?
>>
>> Since it doesn't look like anybody's actually going to provide any useful
>> information about Hillsboro Aviation, I'll let anybody in the area who's
>> looking for a CFI job know what I found out:
>>
>> They're ideally looking for a CFII because they don't want students to
>> have
>> to transition from one instructor to another. (?!) Also, they want
>> people
>> willing to work up to 12 hours a day 5-6 days a week. A student there
>> told
>> me that it seems to be a CFI mill; they pay them low wages knowing that
>> the
>> CFIs will bail as soon as they get their hours.
>>
>> That reminds me a little too much of Radio Shack or Circuit City.
>> (Gutter-level salesdroids hoping to be able to add "retail sales" to
>> their
>> resume.)
>>
>> I'll hand the discussion back to the peanut gallery...
>>
>> -c
>>
>>

I see their students come through Roseburg(KRBG) on occasion. Mostly
Chinese.

Al G

[Stella Starr]

Gatt wrote:

> Personally, I liked switching up instructors between Pvt and Instrument.
>
> -c

Me too...there's a lot to be said (and it's all been said here) for
different points of view and teaching styles, as well as the variety of
experience offered by multiple instructors.

Gatt, where you at? You're near us, now my sweetie's relocated me to
his PNW homeland. Shoot me an email, by removing one final "R" from the
posting name, at America OnLine, and yes I know I'm a weenie for still
having an AOL account.

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-16 12:16:13 -0700, "Gatt" > said:

>
> Any experience with Hillsboro Aviation in Oregon?
>
> They're hiring instructors. Not sure if it would be worth the 50% pay cut
> and the additional 45 minute commute each way...
>
> ...but it just might be. I'm having one of those "Don't talk about what
> I'd like to do to management on public aviation-related forums" days.
>
> -c

So, you hate where you are so much that you are willing to take a 50%
pay cut and an additional 45 minute commute.

Everybody is hiring instructors. We are hiring instructors. In fact, we
are very short on instructors right now, four of them having gone to
the airlines in the last month.

Eventually, somebody is going to have to start giving a few pay raises.
--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Jim Logajan]

C J Campbell > wrote:
> Everybody is hiring instructors. We are hiring instructors. In fact,
> we are very short on instructors right now, four of them having gone
> to the airlines in the last month.
>
> Eventually, somebody is going to have to start giving a few pay
> raises.

That would be from us students - but we can be pretty cheap bosses! ;-)

[Morgans[_2_]]

"C J Campbell" > wrote

> Eventually, somebody is going to have to start giving a few pay raises.

Don't count on it.

One could make the same argument, concerning public school teachers and
raises, but I don't see that happening, either.
--
Jim in NC

[C Gattman]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:2007071917440450073-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...

> So, you hate where you are so much that you are willing to take a 50% pay
> cut and an additional 45 minute commute.

Not quite willing, but considering it. It's a long story, but the short
version is that I great and forwardly-mobile team got bought out, subdivided
and turned into something from Office Space. For example I overheard a
manager telling his team to try answering calls on the second ring instead
of the third. Seriously.

> Everybody is hiring instructors.

Heh! That's the impression I'm getting. It sounds like I'd be better off
working part time at a local airport and chasing spammers around on the
side. If I'm lucky I'll be able to swing this into a half-time job.

> Eventually, somebody is going to have to start giving a few pay raises.

That's kinda what I think, too. It's a shame that a working CFI can't earn
enough to support a family just about anywhere in the Pacific Northwest.

-c

[Morgans[_2_]]

"C Gattman" > wrote
>
> That's kinda what I think, too. It's a shame that a working CFI can't
> earn enough to support a family just about anywhere in the Pacific
> Northwest.

Yep, but as long as teaching flying continues to be a time building step for
flying the big stuff, it is destined to stay that way.

Added to that, is the fact that GA flying is about dieing out, and one
reason is cost. If instructors were to be paid what they are worth (at
LEAST double) there would be a lot of people not able to start flying,
because of the higher instructor cost.

So what do you do?

Nothing, because there is not much one person can do to change the accepted
pay scales, anyway.
--
Jim in NC

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-19 18:34:56 -0700, "Morgans" > said:

>
> "C Gattman" > wrote
>>
>> That's kinda what I think, too. It's a shame that a working CFI can't
>> earn enough to support a family just about anywhere in the Pacific
>> Northwest.
>
> Yep, but as long as teaching flying continues to be a time building step for
> flying the big stuff, it is destined to stay that way.
>
> Added to that, is the fact that GA flying is about dieing out, and one
> reason is cost. If instructors were to be paid what they are worth (at
> LEAST double) there would be a lot of people not able to start flying,
> because of the higher instructor cost.

Frankly, learning to fly is cheap. People talk about the cost, but
learning to fly is a lot cheaper than golf or boating.

The financial cost is not the big deal. It is the time commitment. Most
people are put off immediately when they learn that it will take them a
year or more, flying once a week, rain or shine, in order to get a
pilot certificate. Now, that is a big cost.

Then they look at an airplane. You can get something that looks like
the old beater you drove in college for a mere $90,000 or so. Or, for
the price of a nice home, you can buy a new plane. Or you can rent --
and the plane will never seem to be available when you need it for as
long as you need it. Renting? Forget about that weekend trip to the
Catskills. You will never be able to block out a plane for that long.

People want to learn to fly because they think they might be able to do
something practical with it. They are sick of TSA, tired of being
slaves to airline schedules, and tired of the two year old who kicks
the back of your seat while his colicky little brother screams for four
solid hours.

But people quickly learn also that general aviation is not a simple
solution to those problems. And they don't derive great pleasure from
just going up and boring holes in the sky for an hour or two.

That is why general aviation is dying. You get very little benefit for
the cost in time and money. That comes out as 'expensive,' and they are
right.

If pilots, especially instructors, were paid more, however, it might
actually attract *more* students -- people might see flying as
something that might actually give a worthwhile return on the
investment.



--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[C Gattman]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:2007072009474843658-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...

> Frankly, learning to fly is cheap. People talk about the cost, but
> learning to fly is a lot cheaper than golf or boating.

Well...it didn't cost me much to learn to boat. Instruction was free with
the purchase of the (used) boat and the online licensing test was open-book.
On the other hand, there is an interplanetary gap between the average
skillset at the airport versus the dock just down the road.

> The financial cost is not the big deal. It is the time commitment.

That's debatable. It's the cost that's prohibiting me, for example, from
running out and adding multi- and taildragger and was -definately- a factor
for the IFR.

> Then they look at an airplane. You can get something that looks like the
old beater you drove in college for a mere $90,000 or so. Or, for
> the price of a nice home, you can buy a new plane. Or you can rent -- and
> the plane will never seem to be available when you need it for as long as
> you need it. Renting? Forget about that weekend trip to the Catskills. You
> will never be able to block out a plane for that long.

As a lowly renter, I'd say that's a huge factor.

> But people quickly learn also that general aviation is not a simple
> solution to those problems. And they don't derive great pleasure from just
> going up and boring holes in the sky for an hour or two.

Certainly not at $100/hr anyway. I can spent all day on my boat for less
than that, and I can drink (a) beer with lunch and four or five of my
friends on some island on the Columbia River. When I bought my boat in
2000, I quit flying for two or three years because I was simply having just
as much fun exploring rivers and lakes.

> If pilots, especially instructors, were paid more, however, it might
> actually attract *more* students -- people might see flying as something
> that might actually give a worthwhile return on the investment.

Well, I'm not a flight instructor (studying for the exams, though) but when
I'm out at the airport and I see somebody playing around in a brand new
Cirrus or Lancair, or Morgan Freeman's jet parked out front, I kinda wonder
how it is that the people who taught these guys how to fly and to keep
themselves and their passengers alive can barely afford medical insurance,
let alone support a child or afford a house payment and retirement.

My wife notes that it's simply the way America treats the service industry.

-c

[S Green]

"Al G" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Chris G." > wrote in message
> reenews.net...
>> Well, they do seem to have one of the highest rates in the area!!! I
>> work in Portland and don't even consider renting from them. Their rates
>> for a 172 are around $135-140/hr (wet). Yea, it's a glass panel, but I
>> don't need a glass panel for my flying--not for that much money!
>>
>> Chris G., PP-ASEL
>> Salem, Oregon
>>
>> Gatt wrote:
>>> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
>>> oups.com...
>>>
>>>>>>> ...but it just might be. I'm having one of those "Don't talk about
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> I'd like to do to management on public aviation-related forums"
>>>>>>> days.
>>>>>> And your point is....?
>>>>> Hmm. How about: "They're hiring instructors..."
>>>> Who isn't?
>>>
>>> Since it doesn't look like anybody's actually going to provide any
>>> useful
>>> information about Hillsboro Aviation, I'll let anybody in the area who's
>>> looking for a CFI job know what I found out:
>>>
>>> They're ideally looking for a CFII because they don't want students to
>>> have
>>> to transition from one instructor to another. (?!) Also, they want
>>> people
>>> willing to work up to 12 hours a day 5-6 days a week. A student there
>>> told
>>> me that it seems to be a CFI mill; they pay them low wages knowing that
>>> the
>>> CFIs will bail as soon as they get their hours.
>>>
>>> That reminds me a little too much of Radio Shack or Circuit City.
>>> (Gutter-level salesdroids hoping to be able to add "retail sales" to
>>> their
>>> resume.)
>>>
>>> I'll hand the discussion back to the peanut gallery...
>>>
>>> -c
>>>
>>>
>
> I see their students come through Roseburg(KRBG) on occasion. Mostly
> Chinese.

Foreign certainly and quite a few Europeans in that mix.

Compared to the Florida flight schools they are much cheaper and there is no
sales tax.

so for a foreigner, Hillsboro is about 20% cheaper than Florida and with the
exchange rate as it is, from Europe its a bargain. Not many schools with
Immigration status in Oregon either.

[C Gattman]

"S Green" > wrote in message
...

> Compared to the Florida flight schools they are much cheaper and there is
> no sales tax.
>
> so for a foreigner, Hillsboro is about 20% cheaper than Florida and with
> the exchange rate as it is, from Europe its a bargain. Not many schools
> with Immigration status in Oregon either.

They used to come over and do helicopter training in Corvallis when I was
flying out of there. Untowered airport with multiple runways...dang that
was frustrating because you had to remember to look straight up before
entering the runway. "Krowlis trarwic hero (unintelligible)
(unintelligible) Krowlis..."

-c

[S Green]

"C Gattman" > wrote in message
...
>
> "S Green" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Compared to the Florida flight schools they are much cheaper and there is
>> no sales tax.
>>
>> so for a foreigner, Hillsboro is about 20% cheaper than Florida and with
>> the exchange rate as it is, from Europe its a bargain. Not many schools
>> with Immigration status in Oregon either.
>
> They used to come over and do helicopter training in Corvallis when I was
> flying out of there. Untowered airport with multiple runways...dang that
> was frustrating because you had to remember to look straight up before
> entering the runway. "Krowlis trarwic hero (unintelligible)
> (unintelligible) Krowlis..."

Getting back to another thread and the Chinese and the English Language. If
you think it bad when they murder American English, its even work when they
murder English English.