GPS Cellphone Tracking - Track Anyone Anytime Anywhere [Archive]

July 25th 07, 07:45 PM

Peter R. > wrote:
> On 7/25/2007 1:48:51 PM, "GpsSpying.Com" wrote:

> > Track anyone, anyutime, anywhere using their
> > cellphone number.

> I doubt it works. More likely a cell phone harvest of some type.

Maybe it works someplace, but not in the US in general.

Current rules (for the nitpickers: simplified, add detail as you desire)
say the GPS tracking stuff in the cell phone is only enabled in an
emergency, e.g. a 911 call, or if you have signed up with the carrier
for such service for personal reasons such as tracking your kids.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Gig 601XL Builder

July 25th 07, 08:20 PM

El Maximo wrote:
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
> ...
>
>> I used one 3 digits off of my own.
>>
>
> And what was the result?

Try it. It was harmless. I don't want to give away the punchline.

Robert M. Gary

July 25th 07, 09:27 PM

On Jul 25, 11:45 am, wrote:
> Peter R. > wrote:
> > On 7/25/2007 1:48:51 PM, "GpsSpying.Com" wrote:
> > > Track anyone, anyutime, anywhere using their
> > > cellphone number.
> > I doubt it works. More likely a cell phone harvest of some type.
>
> Maybe it works someplace, but not in the US in general.
>
> Current rules (for the nitpickers: simplified, add detail as you desire)
> say the GPS tracking stuff in the cell phone is only enabled in an
> emergency, e.g. a 911 call, or if you have signed up with the carrier
> for such service for personal reasons such as tracking your kids.
>
> --
> Jim Pennino
>
> Remove .spam.sux to reply.

We've used cell phone tracking for SAR in CAP. However, you have to
work directly with the cell phone provider, it doesn't appear that
there is any software that simply says "you are here", its an engineer
looking over stuff giving you his opinion. Even at that, the possible
range was pretty large as I recall.

-Robert

[email protected]

July 25th 07, 09:55 PM

Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> On Jul 25, 11:45 am, wrote:
> > Peter R. > wrote:
> > > On 7/25/2007 1:48:51 PM, "GpsSpying.Com" wrote:
> > > > Track anyone, anyutime, anywhere using their
> > > > cellphone number.
> > > I doubt it works. More likely a cell phone harvest of some type.
> >
> > Maybe it works someplace, but not in the US in general.
> >
> > Current rules (for the nitpickers: simplified, add detail as you desire)
> > say the GPS tracking stuff in the cell phone is only enabled in an
> > emergency, e.g. a 911 call, or if you have signed up with the carrier
> > for such service for personal reasons such as tracking your kids.
> >
> > --
> > Jim Pennino
> >
> > Remove .spam.sux to reply.

> We've used cell phone tracking for SAR in CAP. However, you have to
> work directly with the cell phone provider, it doesn't appear that
> there is any software that simply says "you are here", its an engineer
> looking over stuff giving you his opinion. Even at that, the possible
> range was pretty large as I recall.

> -Robert

That was probably by cell site triangulation, which gives you a big
area and one of the reasons why the Feds are pushing E911.

With the new phones with built in GPS (which eventually are supposed
to replace all existing cell phones) the accuracy is, well, GPS
accuracy.

If anyone wants all the gory details about GPS in cell phones, you
can go to http://www.fcc.gov and search for E911.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Peter Dohm

July 26th 07, 04:31 AM

"Doug Semler" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Jul 25, 2:13 pm, "Peter R." > wrote:
> > On 7/25/2007 1:48:51 PM, "GpsSpying.Com" wrote:
> >
> > > Track anyone, anyutime, anywhere using their
> > > cellphone number.
> >
> > I doubt it works. More likely a cell phone harvest of some type.
> >
>
> Not even a good joke at that (sheesh, my girlfriend is a blond
> Hahahah).
>
Yeah, and it isn't even daytime here...

Peter ;-)

[email protected]

July 26th 07, 08:56 AM

On 25 Jul, 21:55, wrote:
> Robert M. Gary > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 25, 11:45 am, wrote:
> > > Peter R. > wrote:
> > > > On 7/25/2007 1:48:51 PM, "GpsSpying.Com" wrote:
> > > > > Track anyone, anyutime, anywhere using their
> > > > > cellphone number.
> > > > I doubt it works. More likely a cell phone harvest of some type.
>
> > > Maybe it works someplace, but not in the US in general.
>
> > > Current rules (for the nitpickers: simplified, add detail as you desire)
> > > say the GPS tracking stuff in the cell phone is only enabled in an
> > > emergency, e.g. a 911 call, or if you have signed up with the carrier
> > > for such service for personal reasons such as tracking your kids.
>
> > > --
> > > Jim Pennino
>
> > > Remove .spam.sux to reply.
> > We've used cell phone tracking for SAR in CAP. However, you have to
> > work directly with the cell phone provider, it doesn't appear that
> > there is any software that simply says "you are here", its an engineer
> > looking over stuff giving you his opinion. Even at that, the possible
> > range was pretty large as I recall.
> > -Robert
>
> That was probably by cell site triangulation, which gives you a big
> area and one of the reasons why the Feds are pushing E911.
>
> With the new phones with built in GPS (which eventually are supposed
> to replace all existing cell phones) the accuracy is, well, GPS
> accuracy.
>
> If anyone wants all the gory details about GPS in cell phones, you
> can go tohttp://www.fcc.govand search for E911.

Mobile phone tracking is available as a commercial service
in the UK using the 'triangulation' method.

http://www.followus.co.uk/how_accurate_is_it.html

"We have seen mobile phone accuracy as precise as 100m in central
London (where there are many cell masts) and as inaccurate as 10km in
the Scottish Highlands(where there are few cell masts)."

Thomas Borchert

July 26th 07, 12:00 PM

> With the new phones with built in GPS
>

There are but a very few.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Morgans[_2_]

July 26th 07, 01:02 PM

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
...
>> With the new phones with built in GPS
>>
>
> There are but a very few.

What? 100% of the phones sold here have GPS. It's law.
--
Jim in NC

Kev

July 26th 07, 02:11 PM

On Jul 26, 8:02 am, "Morgans" > wrote:
> "Thomas Borchert" > wrote in message
> ...
>
> >> With the new phones with built in GPS
>
> > There are but a very few.
>
> What? 100% of the phones sold here have GPS. It's law.

U.S. carriers have a choice of either using a builtin GPS, or cell
tower triangulation. Most use the triangulation, but that's slowly
changing. Either method is soon required to be accurate within 100
yards or so. Great if you're in the country, but less useful in a
big city full of apartments.

Kev

Thomas Borchert

July 26th 07, 02:53 PM

Morgans,

> What? 100% of the phones sold here have GPS. It's law.
>

BS.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[email protected]

July 26th 07, 03:45 PM

Thomas Borchert > wrote:
> > With the new phones with built in GPS
> >

> There are but a very few.

> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Well, yes and no.

First, E911 is a US program, so obviously it doesn't apply anywhere else.

--Simplified Explaination--

The E911 program mandates cell carriers increase the accuracy of
cell phone location.

The program is implemented in phases.

In the intial phases, carriers have the option of either increasing
their triangulation accuracy or going to GPS phones.

Some carriers have chosen one method, some the other.

The majority of the major cell carriers chose the GPS method.

Here's some timetable stuff from the FCC:

Nextel: by Dec 31, 2005, 95% of all handsets must be GPS.
Sprint: by Dec 31, 2005, 95% of all handsets must be GPS.
Verizon: by Dec 31, 2005, 95% of all handsets must be GPS.

ALLTEL is also going GPS, but I can't find their schedule.

It is now 2007.

It is getting difficult to get a cell phone without GPS in the US.

All the details are at http://www.fcc.gov

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Doug[_1_]

July 26th 07, 04:47 PM

The police in the US can do it. And you don't have to be talking on
your cellphone, it just has to be on. They need the cooperation of the
cellphone company, and that is SUPPOSED to requre a warrant (I
believe). All cellphones sold in US have a GPS chip. This does not
mean your cell phone has GPS navigation. They have sold all of this
because of the 911 desire to locate a 911 caller. But it's another Big
Brother item as well.

If you are concerned about this sort of thing, you really should
contribute to the ACLU. They fight abuse of this sort of stuff better
than anyone.

Gig 601XL Builder

July 26th 07, 05:06 PM

Doug wrote:
> The police in the US can do it. And you don't have to be talking on
> your cellphone, it just has to be on. They need the cooperation of the
> cellphone company, and that is SUPPOSED to requre a warrant (I
> believe). All cellphones sold in US have a GPS chip. This does not
> mean your cell phone has GPS navigation. They have sold all of this
> because of the 911 desire to locate a 911 caller. But it's another Big
> Brother item as well.
>
> If you are concerned about this sort of thing, you really should
> contribute to the ACLU. They fight abuse of this sort of stuff better
> than anyone.

ALL CELL PHONES IN THE US DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A GPS CHIP.

All cell phones will have to conform to a E911 standard. Of the big boys
Verizon, Sprint and Alltel are using a version that uses GPS. AT&T is using
one that uses triangulation.

As more people use cell phones as their only phone line having E911
available is important.

While the ability to use your cell phone to find you will be enhanced with
E911. Don't think for a second that the government could not have done it
and did do it before E911.

Everyone knows that the only way to protect yourself from Big Brother is to
wear a tin foil hat.

[email protected]

July 26th 07, 05:55 PM

Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> Doug wrote:
> > The police in the US can do it. And you don't have to be talking on
> > your cellphone, it just has to be on. They need the cooperation of the
> > cellphone company, and that is SUPPOSED to requre a warrant (I
> > believe). All cellphones sold in US have a GPS chip. This does not
> > mean your cell phone has GPS navigation. They have sold all of this
> > because of the 911 desire to locate a 911 caller. But it's another Big
> > Brother item as well.
> >
> > If you are concerned about this sort of thing, you really should
> > contribute to the ACLU. They fight abuse of this sort of stuff better
> > than anyone.

> ALL CELL PHONES IN THE US DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A GPS CHIP.

> All cell phones will have to conform to a E911 standard. Of the big boys
> Verizon, Sprint and Alltel are using a version that uses GPS. AT&T is using
> one that uses triangulation.

> As more people use cell phones as their only phone line having E911
> available is important.

> While the ability to use your cell phone to find you will be enhanced with
> E911. Don't think for a second that the government could not have done it
> and did do it before E911.

> Everyone knows that the only way to protect yourself from Big Brother is to
> wear a tin foil hat.

Yes, but to get onto a carrier's service that chose GPS, you must have
a GPS enabled phone.

The practical result of that will be that eventually it will be difficult
if not impossible to buy a phone in the US without GPS.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Gig 601XL Builder

July 26th 07, 07:11 PM

wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>> The police in the US can do it. And you don't have to be talking on
>>> your cellphone, it just has to be on. They need the cooperation of
>>> the cellphone company, and that is SUPPOSED to requre a warrant (I
>>> believe). All cellphones sold in US have a GPS chip. This does not
>>> mean your cell phone has GPS navigation. They have sold all of this
>>> because of the 911 desire to locate a 911 caller. But it's another
>>> Big Brother item as well.
>>>
>>> If you are concerned about this sort of thing, you really should
>>> contribute to the ACLU. They fight abuse of this sort of stuff
>>> better than anyone.
>
>
>> ALL CELL PHONES IN THE US DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A GPS CHIP.
>
>> All cell phones will have to conform to a E911 standard. Of the big
>> boys Verizon, Sprint and Alltel are using a version that uses GPS.
>> AT&T is using one that uses triangulation.
>
>> As more people use cell phones as their only phone line having E911
>> available is important.
>
>> While the ability to use your cell phone to find you will be
>> enhanced with E911. Don't think for a second that the government
>> could not have done it and did do it before E911.
>
>> Everyone knows that the only way to protect yourself from Big
>> Brother is to wear a tin foil hat.
>
> Yes, but to get onto a carrier's service that chose GPS, you must have
> a GPS enabled phone.
>
> The practical result of that will be that eventually it will be
> difficult if not impossible to buy a phone in the US without GPS.
>

No, you will be able to buy one from one of the largest companies in the US.
AT&T.

[email protected]

July 26th 07, 08:24 PM

Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> wrote:
> > Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> >> Doug wrote:
> >>> The police in the US can do it. And you don't have to be talking on
> >>> your cellphone, it just has to be on. They need the cooperation of
> >>> the cellphone company, and that is SUPPOSED to requre a warrant (I
> >>> believe). All cellphones sold in US have a GPS chip. This does not
> >>> mean your cell phone has GPS navigation. They have sold all of this
> >>> because of the 911 desire to locate a 911 caller. But it's another
> >>> Big Brother item as well.
> >>>
> >>> If you are concerned about this sort of thing, you really should
> >>> contribute to the ACLU. They fight abuse of this sort of stuff
> >>> better than anyone.
> >
> >
> >> ALL CELL PHONES IN THE US DO NOT HAVE TO HAVE A GPS CHIP.
> >
> >> All cell phones will have to conform to a E911 standard. Of the big
> >> boys Verizon, Sprint and Alltel are using a version that uses GPS.
> >> AT&T is using one that uses triangulation.
> >
> >> As more people use cell phones as their only phone line having E911
> >> available is important.
> >
> >> While the ability to use your cell phone to find you will be
> >> enhanced with E911. Don't think for a second that the government
> >> could not have done it and did do it before E911.
> >
> >> Everyone knows that the only way to protect yourself from Big
> >> Brother is to wear a tin foil hat.
> >
> > Yes, but to get onto a carrier's service that chose GPS, you must have
> > a GPS enabled phone.
> >
> > The practical result of that will be that eventually it will be
> > difficult if not impossible to buy a phone in the US without GPS.
> >

> No, you will be able to buy one from one of the largest companies in the US.
> AT&T.

Assuming AT&T doesn't sell off its wireless division AGAIN and AT&T
doesn't jump fully into its announced parterships with carriers going
the GPS route and someone is willing to make phones that only work
with non-GPS carriers which are a fraction of the US market now.

I wouldn't put money on that bet.

None GPS phones will go away because of market forces, not regulation,
just like BetaMax, floppy drives (8, 5, or 3 inch, take your pick),
record players, 8 track and eventually ordinary photographic film
as the GPS phones will be more generally usefull.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Kev

July 26th 07, 08:52 PM

Here's a graphic where you can find out if Phase II (phone location
vs. just cell tower location) is available where you live. It's got
the worst choice of colors I've ever seen, btw:

http://nena.ddti.net/nationalmap.aspx

[email protected]

July 26th 07, 09:15 PM

Kev > wrote:
> Here's a graphic where you can find out if Phase II (phone location
> vs. just cell tower location) is available where you live. It's got
> the worst choice of colors I've ever seen, btw:

> http://nena.ddti.net/nationalmap.aspx

Nope, Phase II sets location accuracy standards that have to be met
as well as deployment percentages.

The carriers are still free under Phase II to use either triangulation
or GPS.

The handsets for Phase II triangulation require extra stuff (it is
kinda, sorta like DME to get the aviation tie-in) but not GPS chips.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Gig 601XL Builder

July 26th 07, 10:37 PM

wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
>
> Assuming AT&T doesn't sell off its wireless division AGAIN and AT&T
> doesn't jump fully into its announced parterships with carriers going
> the GPS route and someone is willing to make phones that only work
> with non-GPS carriers which are a fraction of the US market now.
>
> I wouldn't put money on that bet.
>
> None GPS phones will go away because of market forces, not regulation,
> just like BetaMax, floppy drives (8, 5, or 3 inch, take your pick),
> record players, 8 track and eventually ordinary photographic film
> as the GPS phones will be more generally usefull.
>
> Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Why would market forces drive out the Non-GPS phones? Most people don't use
the GPS chip in the phone. The requirement for location is there because the
feds said it needed to be there and most people who do care just want 911 to
know where they are. They could care less how 911 knows where they are.

Now, if AT&T cells the wireless division all bets are off because the people
they sell it to are using the GPS system. But, I don't see that happening.
AT&T is just about back where they were in the 70s with just enough
competition to forestall another federal break-up. For more info please this
video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2004785759717366066

[email protected]

July 26th 07, 11:05 PM

Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> wrote:
> > Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> >
> > Assuming AT&T doesn't sell off its wireless division AGAIN and AT&T
> > doesn't jump fully into its announced parterships with carriers going
> > the GPS route and someone is willing to make phones that only work
> > with non-GPS carriers which are a fraction of the US market now.
> >
> > I wouldn't put money on that bet.
> >
> > None GPS phones will go away because of market forces, not regulation,
> > just like BetaMax, floppy drives (8, 5, or 3 inch, take your pick),
> > record players, 8 track and eventually ordinary photographic film
> > as the GPS phones will be more generally usefull.
> >
> > Remove .spam.sux to reply.

> Why would market forces drive out the Non-GPS phones? Most people don't use
> the GPS chip in the phone. The requirement for location is there because the
> feds said it needed to be there and most people who do care just want 911 to
> know where they are. They could care less how 911 knows where they are.

You totally missed the point.

Almost no one, as in regular people, is going to use the GPS chip in
the phone for anything. If phones start getting a GPS display, that will
change. I wouldn't think it will take long for that to happen.

The point is a big portion of the major carriers are going with GPS
technology.

To get on their network you will need a GPS phone. When your current
none-GPS phone dies, you will need to replace it with a GPS phone.

Even if you go with AT&T, if you want the ability to roam on other
carriers, you will need a GPS phone.

As time passes, the MAKERS of phones are more likely to make one
type of phone that contains both the GPS chip and the triangulation
stuff simply because it will be easier to support one manufacturing
line rather than two.

> Now, if AT&T cells the wireless division all bets are off because the people
> they sell it to are using the GPS system. But, I don't see that happening.
> AT&T is just about back where they were in the 70s with just enough
> competition to forestall another federal break-up. For more info please this
> video.

> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2004785759717366066

It would be strange for AT&T to sell off the wireless operation AGAIN.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Thomas Borchert

July 27th 07, 08:47 AM

I sit corrected. Thanks for explaining.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert

July 27th 07, 08:47 AM

Morgans,

I was wrong. Sorry!

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Robert M. Gary

July 27th 07, 05:39 PM

On Jul 26, 7:45 am, wrote:
> Thomas Borchert > wrote:
> > > With the new phones with built in GPS
>
> > There are but a very few.
> > --
> > Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
>
> Well, yes and no.
>
> First, E911 is a US program, so obviously it doesn't apply anywhere else.
>
> --Simplified Explaination--
>
> The E911 program mandates cell carriers increase the accuracy of
> cell phone location.
>
> The program is implemented in phases.
>
> In the intial phases, carriers have the option of either increasing
> their triangulation accuracy or going to GPS phones.
>
> Some carriers have chosen one method, some the other.
>
> The majority of the major cell carriers chose the GPS method.

So now the gov't is setting the minimum cost for a cell phone by
essentially requiring me to pay for a phone with GPS. Damn, you let
those liberals get anywhere near power and prices start going up.

-Robert

[email protected]

July 27th 07, 06:15 PM

Robert M. Gary > wrote:
> On Jul 26, 7:45 am, wrote:
> > Thomas Borchert > wrote:
> > > > With the new phones with built in GPS
> >
> > > There are but a very few.
> > > --
> > > Thomas Borchert (EDDH)
> >
> > Well, yes and no.
> >
> > First, E911 is a US program, so obviously it doesn't apply anywhere else.
> >
> > --Simplified Explaination--
> >
> > The E911 program mandates cell carriers increase the accuracy of
> > cell phone location.
> >
> > The program is implemented in phases.
> >
> > In the intial phases, carriers have the option of either increasing
> > their triangulation accuracy or going to GPS phones.
> >
> > Some carriers have chosen one method, some the other.
> >
> > The majority of the major cell carriers chose the GPS method.

> So now the gov't is setting the minimum cost for a cell phone by
> essentially requiring me to pay for a phone with GPS. Damn, you let
> those liberals get anywhere near power and prices start going up.

AFAIK, it isn't a mandate that phones ever go 100% GPS, but as
discussed elsewhere, since the majority of carriers have choosen
that route, it will eventually probably be hard to find a phone
without a GPS chip.

And since the trend these days is to cram piles of none-telephone
features (take pictures with your telephone, who'd a thunk it?)
into cell phones, I doubt it will be long before phones will let
the users actually use the GPS data.

So, not too far in the future, you will be able to listen to
the Grand Canyon Suite on your phone MP3 player while taking
pictures of the Grand Canyon on your phone, e-mailing the pictures
to Aunt Agatha from your phone, while noting your precise location
on the GPS display on your phone for future reference (Aunt Agatha,
this is the spot to go to) all while getting the ball game scores.

The mind boggles.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Gig 601XL Builder

July 27th 07, 08:14 PM

wrote:
>
>> Why would market forces drive out the Non-GPS phones? Most people
>> don't use the GPS chip in the phone. The requirement for location is
>> there because the feds said it needed to be there and most people
>> who do care just want 911 to know where they are. They could care
>> less how 911 knows where they are.
>
> You totally missed the point.
>
> Almost no one, as in regular people, is going to use the GPS chip in
> the phone for anything. If phones start getting a GPS display, that
> will change. I wouldn't think it will take long for that to happen.
>
> The point is a big portion of the major carriers are going with GPS
> technology.
>
> To get on their network you will need a GPS phone. When your current
> none-GPS phone dies, you will need to replace it with a GPS phone.
>
> Even if you go with AT&T, if you want the ability to roam on other
> carriers, you will need a GPS phone.
>

Do you have a cite for your assertion that AT&T non-gps phones won't be able
to roam on gps enabled systems?

> As time passes, the MAKERS of phones are more likely to make one
> type of phone that contains both the GPS chip and the triangulation
> stuff simply because it will be easier to support one manufacturing
> line rather than two.
>

You might be right there but AT&T is a pretty big client and if they, for
whatever reason, don't want the chip I'd be willing to bet that they have
the pull to get the phones without the chip.

[email protected]

July 27th 07, 08:35 PM

Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> wrote:
> >
> >> Why would market forces drive out the Non-GPS phones? Most people
> >> don't use the GPS chip in the phone. The requirement for location is
> >> there because the feds said it needed to be there and most people
> >> who do care just want 911 to know where they are. They could care
> >> less how 911 knows where they are.
> >
> > You totally missed the point.
> >
> > Almost no one, as in regular people, is going to use the GPS chip in
> > the phone for anything. If phones start getting a GPS display, that
> > will change. I wouldn't think it will take long for that to happen.
> >
> > The point is a big portion of the major carriers are going with GPS
> > technology.
> >
> > To get on their network you will need a GPS phone. When your current
> > none-GPS phone dies, you will need to replace it with a GPS phone.
> >
> > Even if you go with AT&T, if you want the ability to roam on other
> > carriers, you will need a GPS phone.

> Do you have a cite for your assertion that AT&T non-gps phones won't be able
> to roam on gps enabled systems?

Not offhand, but it is my understanding that after some cutoff date,
you won't be able to use a none-GPS phone on a GPS network at all.

You are free to research this at http://www.fcc.gov and show me that
I am wrong about this.

> > As time passes, the MAKERS of phones are more likely to make one
> > type of phone that contains both the GPS chip and the triangulation
> > stuff simply because it will be easier to support one manufacturing
> > line rather than two.

> You might be right there but AT&T is a pretty big client and if they, for
> whatever reason, don't want the chip I'd be willing to bet that they have
> the pull to get the phones without the chip.

My bet is they'll use whatever is available at a reasonable price and
will care less if the phone has features unused on their network.

--
Jim Pennino

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Gig 601XL Builder

July 27th 07, 09:56 PM

wrote:
>
> Not offhand, but it is my understanding that after some cutoff date,
> you won't be able to use a none-GPS phone on a GPS network at all.
>
> You are free to research this at http://www.fcc.gov and show me that
> I am wrong about this.
>

Come on Jim you know the rules. If you make a statement it's up to you to
provide the cite. :)

[email protected]

July 27th 07, 10:14 PM

Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> wrote:
> >
> > Not offhand, but it is my understanding that after some cutoff date,
> > you won't be able to use a none-GPS phone on a GPS network at all.
> >
> > You are free to research this at http://www.fcc.gov and show me that
> > I am wrong about this.
> >

> Come on Jim you know the rules. If you make a statement it's up to you to
> provide the cite. :)

In the words of Bud Abbott, I'm a bad boy.

Third base.

--
Jim Pennino

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Don Tuite

July 27th 07, 10:45 PM

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 17:15:00 GMT, wrote:

>So, not too far in the future, you will be able to listen to
>the Grand Canyon Suite on your phone MP3 player while taking
>pictures of the Grand Canyon on your phone, e-mailing the pictures
>to Aunt Agatha from your phone, while noting your precise location
>on the GPS display on your phone for future reference (Aunt Agatha,
>this is the spot to go to) all while getting the ball game scores.
>
From what guys at the chip makers are telling me, you can already buy
phones that do all that and more in storefront shops in Seoul and
Shanghai. But the North American market is too small, the churn too
slow, and the infrastructure too anitquated compared to Asia to be of
much concern to cellphone makers. Still, the new phones will have all
that stuff in firmware -- it costs too muchto make different chips for
different markets -- but the carriers here won't implement it.

Don

Jules

July 27th 07, 11:57 PM

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
they have
> the pull to get the phones without the chip.

Do you have a cite for your assertion?

[email protected]

July 28th 07, 12:35 AM

Jules > wrote:

> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> they have
> > the pull to get the phones without the chip.

> Do you have a cite for your assertion?

Low blow.

--
Jim Pennino

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Marty Shapiro

July 28th 07, 12:39 AM

wrote in :

> Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Not offhand, but it is my understanding that after some cutoff
>> > date, you won't be able to use a none-GPS phone on a GPS network at
>> > all.
>> >
>> > You are free to research this at http://www.fcc.gov and show me
>> > that I am wrong about this.
>> >
>
>
>> Come on Jim you know the rules. If you make a statement it's up to
>> you to provide the cite. :)
>
> In the words of Bud Abbott, I'm a bad boy.
>
> Third base.
>

That was Lou Costello!.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

[email protected]

July 28th 07, 01:05 AM

Marty Shapiro > wrote:
> wrote in :

> > Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Not offhand, but it is my understanding that after some cutoff
> >> > date, you won't be able to use a none-GPS phone on a GPS network at
> >> > all.
> >> >
> >> > You are free to research this at http://www.fcc.gov and show me
> >> > that I am wrong about this.
> >> >
> >
> >
> >> Come on Jim you know the rules. If you make a statement it's up to
> >> you to provide the cite. :)
> >
> > In the words of Bud Abbott, I'm a bad boy.
> >
> > Third base.
> >

> That was Lou Costello!.

Doh!

--
Jim Pennino

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Morgans[_2_]

July 28th 07, 03:48 AM

"Thomas Borchert" > wrote

> Morgans,
>
> I was wrong. Sorry!

No problem.

I thought I was wrong one time, but I was mistaken! <g>

I appreciate the honesty and apology, although it was not really necessary.

So things are different over there, as far as phones and GPS go?

What is the European, or national systems for emergency calls? Anything
like 911 over there?
--
Jim in NC

Thomas Borchert

July 28th 07, 02:17 PM

Morgans,

> What is the European, or national systems for emergency calls? Anything
> like 911 over there?

Sure. But every country has its own number/system. The cell phone systems
used here allow triangulation. However, it is not routinely used for
emergencies. While people buy cell phones with GPS in them for navigation
purposes, I don't think having GPS in all of them would go through with the
public here.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Gig 601XL Builder

July 30th 07, 03:26 PM

Jules wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> they have
>> the pull to get the phones without the chip.
>
>
> Do you have a cite for your assertion?

Of course I do.

http://www.tnstelecoms.com/press-3-13-06.html

[email protected]

July 30th 07, 04:04 PM

Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> Jules wrote:
> > Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> > they have
> >> the pull to get the phones without the chip.
> >
> >
> > Do you have a cite for your assertion?

> Of course I do.

> http://www.tnstelecoms.com/press-3-13-06.html

Which shows AT&T has 30% of the wireless market in the US.

The US wireless market is a small and declining part of the world
wireless market as countries without the wired infrastructure are
finding it is a lot cheaper to go wireless then it is to string
and maintain wires throughout every town and village.

I suppose Cho's dim-sum and cell phone factory might be persuaded
to run off a small lot of AT&T special phones once in a while.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Gig 601XL Builder

July 30th 07, 05:01 PM

wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
>> Jules wrote:
>>> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>>> they have
>>>> the pull to get the phones without the chip.
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you have a cite for your assertion?
>
>> Of course I do.
>
>> http://www.tnstelecoms.com/press-3-13-06.html
>
> Which shows AT&T has 30% of the wireless market in the US.
>
> The US wireless market is a small and declining part of the world
> wireless market as countries without the wired infrastructure are
> finding it is a lot cheaper to go wireless then it is to string
> and maintain wires throughout every town and village.
>
> I suppose Cho's dim-sum and cell phone factory might be persuaded
> to run off a small lot of AT&T special phones once in a while.
>
> Remove .spam.sux to reply.

30% of the phones sold in the market that requires the location feature is
not a small thing. Especially if that market is the US while declining as a
percentage of the worldwide cell phone market it's not like the US is Lower
Slubonia.

[email protected]

July 30th 07, 06:55 PM

Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> wrote:
> > Gig 601XL Builder <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote:
> >> Jules wrote:
> >>> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> >>> they have
> >>>> the pull to get the phones without the chip.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Do you have a cite for your assertion?
> >
> >> Of course I do.
> >
> >> http://www.tnstelecoms.com/press-3-13-06.html
> >
> > Which shows AT&T has 30% of the wireless market in the US.
> >
> > The US wireless market is a small and declining part of the world
> > wireless market as countries without the wired infrastructure are
> > finding it is a lot cheaper to go wireless then it is to string
> > and maintain wires throughout every town and village.
> >
> > I suppose Cho's dim-sum and cell phone factory might be persuaded
> > to run off a small lot of AT&T special phones once in a while.
> >
> > Remove .spam.sux to reply.

> 30% of the phones sold in the market that requires the location feature is
> not a small thing. Especially if that market is the US while declining as a
> percentage of the worldwide cell phone market it's not like the US is Lower
> Slubonia.

A location feature not used by approximetely 70% of the US market.

The US market is Lower Slubonia when it comes to cell phones and cell
phone features.

The world market was about 2.7 billion at the end of 2006.

India alone adds 6 million per month.

Africa is just getting started and the fastest growing region in the
world.

--
Jim Pennino

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Bear

August 1st 07, 12:27 PM

Morgans wrote:
>
> What is the European, or national systems for emergency calls? Anything
> like 911 over there?

Europe
The most common European emergency number 112 (following Directive
2002/22/EC - Universal Service Directive) and also standard on GSM
mobile phones. 112 is used in Austria, Belgium, Croatia, Cyprus, Czech
Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Hungary,
Iceland, Ireland, Italy, Latvia, Liechtenstein, Lithuania, Luxembourg,
Republic of Macedonia, Malta, Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal,
Romania, Serbia, Slovakia, Slovenia, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the
United Kingdom in adition to their other emergency numbers.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergency_telephone_number

Bear