View Full Version : VW engines by metric AP
Has anybody here heard of VW aeroconversions by a company
called metric A/P? Any experiences good or bad?
I haven't been able to find them on the Web.
--
FF
cavelamb himself[_2_]
July 26th 07, 06:05 AM
wrote:
> Has anybody here heard of VW aeroconversions by a company
> called metric A/P? Any experiences good or bad?
>
> I haven't been able to find them on the Web.
>
> --
>
> FF
>
Never heard of him...
How big is this company?
On Jul 26, 5:05 am, cavelamb himself >
wrote:
> wrote:
> > Has anybody here heard of VW aeroconversions by a company
> > called metric A/P? Any experiences good or bad?
>
> > I haven't been able to find them on the Web.
>
> ...
>
> Never heard of him...
>
> How big is this company?
I have yet to find evidence that they exist. Consequently,
speculation as to their size would be unwarranted.
According to Bradley Aerospace the engine included with the kit
they have up for auction on eBay is a 1600 cc VW aeroconversion
made by metric A/P.
--
FF
cavelamb himself[_2_]
July 27th 07, 02:30 AM
wrote:
> On Jul 26, 5:05 am, cavelamb himself >
> wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>>Has anybody here heard of VW aeroconversions by a company
>>>called metric A/P? Any experiences good or bad?
>>
>>>I haven't been able to find them on the Web.
>>
>>...
>>
>>Never heard of him...
>>
>>How big is this company?
>
>
> I have yet to find evidence that they exist. Consequently,
> speculation as to their size would be unwarranted.
>
> According to Bradley Aerospace the engine included with the kit
> they have up for auction on eBay is a 1600 cc VW aeroconversion
> made by metric A/P.
>
> --
>
> FF
>
>
>
I dunno, Fred.
After some of the engines I've seen built by so called "experts"
I'd really suggest contacting Great Plains and build your own.
It's not hard to do if you follow the instructions and keep everything
clean.
And you KNOW what's in it.
As hard as these little guys have to run in order to fly, don't
take any chances with unknown (or used) stuff.
My $2 (worth 2 cents?)
Richard
On Jul 26, 8:30 pm, cavelamb himself >
wrote:
> wrote:
> > ...
>
> > I have yet to find evidence that they exist. Consequently,
> > speculation as to their size would be unwarranted.
>
> > According to Bradley Aerospace the engine included with the kit
> > they have up for auction on eBay is a 1600 cc VW aeroconversion
> > made by metric A/P.
>
....
>
> I dunno, Fred.
>
> After some of the engines I've seen built by so called "experts"
> I'd really suggest contacting Great Plains and build your own.
No worries.
I'm simply making a good-faith effort to check out what few tidbits
of information they can be persuaded to release.
--
FF
On Jul 27, 1:30 am, cavelamb himself >
wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Jul 26, 5:05 am, cavelamb himself >
> > wrote:
>
> wrote:
>
> >>>Has anybody here heard of VW aeroconversions by a company
> >>>called metric A/P? Any experiences good or bad?
>
> >>>I haven't been able to find them on the Web.
>
> >>...
>
> >>Never heard of him...
>
> >>How big is this company?
>
> > I have yet to find evidence that they exist. Consequently,
> > speculation as to their size would be unwarranted.
>
> > According to Bradley Aerospace the engine included with the kit
> > they have up for auction on eBay is a 1600 cc VW aeroconversion
> > made by metric A/P.
>
....
>
> I dunno, Fred.
>
I wrote to Bradley Aerospace saying that I could not find any
information on metric A/P, and aksed if they could refer me to
a website or at least give me their location, as in city, state, or
country.
Here is BA's reply:
"Metric A/p They have been building my engines for 12 years.
Thank you"
That's it. Why would anyone bother to reply to a request for
information, without providing any information?
It boggles the mind.
--
FF
flybynightkarmarepair
July 30th 07, 07:33 PM
> > >>>Has anybody here heard of VW aeroconversions by a company
> > >>>called metric A/P? Any experiences good or bad?
>
> > >>>I haven't been able to find them on the Web.
>
> > >>...
>
> > >>Never heard of him...
>
> > >>How big is this company?
>
> > > I have yet to find evidence that they exist. Consequently,
> > > speculation as to their size would be unwarranted.
>
> > > According to Bradley Aerospace the engine included with the kit
> > > they have up for auction on eBay is a 1600 cc VW aeroconversion
> > > made by metric A/P.
>
> ...
>
> > I dunno, Fred.
>
> I wrote to Bradley Aerospace saying that I could not find any
> information on metric A/P, and aksed if they could refer me to
> a website or at least give me their location, as in city, state, or
> country.
>
> Here is BA's reply:
>
> "Metric A/p They have been building my engines for 12 years.
> Thank you"
>
> That's it. Why would anyone bother to reply to a request for
> information, without providing any information?
>
> It boggles the mind.
Metric Auto Parts & Services
1023 W 8th St, Chico, CA
(530) 345-0074
On Jul 30, 6:33 pm, flybynightkarmarepair > wrote:
....
> > > >>>Has anybody here heard of VW aeroconversions by a company
> > > >>>called metric A/P? Any experiences good or bad?
> ...
>
> Metric Auto Parts & Services
> 1023 W 8th St, Chico, CA
> (530) 345-0074
I'll bet that's who he means.
I wonder if I should call them and ask if they do aero-conversions.
Thanks.
--
FF
Fred[_3_]
August 2nd 07, 09:36 PM
On Jul 30, 6:33 pm, flybynightkarmarepair > wrote:
> > > >>>Has anybody here heard of VW aeroconversions by a company
> > > >>>called metric A/P? Any experiences good or bad?
>
> > > >>>I haven't been able to find them on the Web.
>
> > > >>...
>
> > > >>Never heard of him...
>
> > > >>How big is this company?
>
> > > > I have yet to find evidence that they exist. Consequently,
> > > > speculation as to their size would be unwarranted.
>
> > > > According to Bradley Aerospace the engine included with the kit
> > > > they have up for auction on eBay is a 1600 cc VW aeroconversion
> > > > made by metric A/P.
>
> > ...
>
> > > I dunno, Fred.
>
> > I wrote to Bradley Aerospace saying that I could not find any
> > information on metric A/P, and aksed if they could refer me to
> > a website or at least give me their location, as in city, state, or
> > country.
>
> > Here is BA's reply:
>
> > "Metric A/p They have been building my engines for 12 years.
> > Thank you"
>
> > That's it. Why would anyone bother to reply to a request for
> > information, without providing any information?
>
> > It boggles the mind.
>
> Metric Auto Parts & Services
> 1023 W 8th St, Chico, CA
> (530) 345-0074
Well I wrote to BA again through ebay and received a reply
suggested I use their business address (a yahoo address).
So I sent this:
>
> You indicate that a 1600 cc VW aeroconversion
> will be included with the kit in the auction.
>
> I have asked, repeatedly, for information about
> the manufacturer of the kit. You say they are
> metric A/P. I was unable to find any company
> by that same and asked some other folks familiar
> with homebuilt aircraft and they don't know who
> they are either.
>
> I have asked you for more information, but so
> far have received nothing.
>
> Obviously I would like to find out more
> about them and their engines. At this
> point, you haven't even told me what
> COUNTRY they are in!
>
> Do you understand?
And received a prompt, one-word reply:
"no"
--
FF
Fred the Red Shirt
August 6th 07, 10:11 PM
On Jul 27, 1:30 am, cavelamb himself >
wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Jul 26, 5:05 am, cavelamb himself >
> > wrote:
>
> wrote:
>
> >>>Has anybody here heard of VW aeroconversions by a company
> >>>called metric A/P? Any experiences good or bad?
>
> >>>I haven't been able to find them on the Web.
>
> >>...
>
> >>Never heard of him...
>
> >>How big is this company?
>
> > I have yet to find evidence that they exist. Consequently,
> > speculation as to their size would be unwarranted.
>
> > According to Bradley Aerospace the engine included with the kit
> > they have up for auction on eBay is a 1600 cc VW aeroconversion
> > made by metric A/P.
>
> > --
>
> > FF
>
> I dunno, Fred.
>
> After some of the engines I've seen built by so called "experts"
> I'd really suggest contacting Great Plains and build your own.
>
> It's not hard to do if you follow the instructions and keep everything
> clean.
>
> And you KNOW what's in it.
I've also been thinking that one could design a radial engine
that uses off-the-shelf VW cylinders, pistons and maybe
even scat heads. As with most such ideas, someone else
has already tried it:
http://www.hciaviation.com/pricing.shtml#standard
$ 5200
A set of pistons, wrist pins and cylinders runs anywhere from
a little over $100.00 to maybe $500 unless you get really
wild. Add that to the ignition components, bearings,
belts etc and I would guess you'd maybe have another $1000
in parts -- $6200 total?
Do you folks think their horsepower estimate (75 HP) is reasonable?
Do you think they would have better cooling inside of a NACAR
cowl than does a typical flat-four installation?
Compare that to a Great Plains 1600 cc VW long block -- $1800
Plus an accessory package, at least -- $1300
Plus their dual ignition accessoriy kit --
$700
Plus filters, bolts, (belts?) etc maybe ~
$100
_________
Total
$3900
Or for a 2800 cc '80 HP' Total ~
$5800
So it looks like maybe they can be cost competitive with
the bigger displacement VWs.
Meanwhile, does the term "aircraft A/P" mean anything to
anyone here? As in a person who makes airplane engines?
--
FF
cavelamb himself[_3_]
August 6th 07, 11:20 PM
Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> On Jul 27, 1:30 am, cavelamb himself >
> wrote:
>
wrote:
>>
>>>On Jul 26, 5:05 am, cavelamb himself >
>>>wrote:
>>
wrote:
>>
>>>>>Has anybody here heard of VW aeroconversions by a company
>>>>>called metric A/P? Any experiences good or bad?
>>
>>>>>I haven't been able to find them on the Web.
>>
>>>>...
>>
>>>>Never heard of him...
>>
>>>>How big is this company?
>>
>>>I have yet to find evidence that they exist. Consequently,
>>>speculation as to their size would be unwarranted.
>>
>>>According to Bradley Aerospace the engine included with the kit
>>>they have up for auction on eBay is a 1600 cc VW aeroconversion
>>>made by metric A/P.
>>
>>>--
>>
>>>FF
>>
>>I dunno, Fred.
>>
>>After some of the engines I've seen built by so called "experts"
>>I'd really suggest contacting Great Plains and build your own.
>>
>>It's not hard to do if you follow the instructions and keep everything
>>clean.
>>
>>And you KNOW what's in it.
>
>
> I've also been thinking that one could design a radial engine
> that uses off-the-shelf VW cylinders, pistons and maybe
> even scat heads. As with most such ideas, someone else
> has already tried it:
>
> http://www.hciaviation.com/pricing.shtml#standard
>
> $ 5200
>
> A set of pistons, wrist pins and cylinders runs anywhere from
> a little over $100.00 to maybe $500 unless you get really
> wild. Add that to the ignition components, bearings,
> belts etc and I would guess you'd maybe have another $1000
> in parts -- $6200 total?
>
> Do you folks think their horsepower estimate (75 HP) is reasonable?
> Do you think they would have better cooling inside of a NACAR
> cowl than does a typical flat-four installation?
>
>
> Compare that to a Great Plains 1600 cc VW long block -- $1800
> Plus an accessory package, at least -- $1300
> Plus their dual ignition accessoriy kit --
> $700
> Plus filters, bolts, (belts?) etc maybe ~
> $100
>
> _________
>
> Total
> $3900
>
>
> Or for a 2800 cc '80 HP' Total ~
> $5800
>
> So it looks like maybe they can be cost competitive with
> the bigger displacement VWs.
>
> Meanwhile, does the term "aircraft A/P" mean anything to
> anyone here? As in a person who makes airplane engines?
>
> --
>
> FF
>
Hi Again, Fred,
Yeah, their horsepower estimates might be for real.
Depends on how much fin area is aaliable to remove the heat of combistion.
BTW, that one minor detail is the reason ALL VW engines are really
only 40 ho engies. Sure, they may make more power tha that, but
with stock heads, once the head is heat saturated anything over
about 40 HP will lead to a serious overheating condition.
YMMV, but not much...
Richard
Montblack
August 7th 07, 04:27 AM
("Fred the Red Shirt" wrote)
> I've also been thinking that one could design a radial engine that uses
> off-the-shelf VW cylinders, pistons and maybe even scat heads. As with
> most such ideas, someone else has already tried it:
>
> http://www.hciaviation.com/pricing.shtml#standard
http://www.hciaviation.com/images/r220_big.jpg
I'm seeing the birth of Borg technology
Paul-Mont
5 of 7 & 7 of 9 sittin' in a tree...
K-i-s-s-i-n-g!
First comes (well me <g>) I mean, love...
Then comes, regeneration...
Bill Daniels
August 7th 07, 05:06 AM
"Montblack" > wrote in message
...
> ("Fred the Red Shirt" wrote)
>> I've also been thinking that one could design a radial engine that uses
>> off-the-shelf VW cylinders, pistons and maybe even scat heads. As with
>> most such ideas, someone else has already tried it:
>>
>> http://www.hciaviation.com/pricing.shtml#standard
>
>
> http://www.hciaviation.com/images/r220_big.jpg
> I'm seeing the birth of Borg technology
>
>
> Paul-Mont
> 5 of 7 & 7 of 9 sittin' in a tree...
> K-i-s-s-i-n-g!
> First comes (well me <g>) I mean, love...
> Then comes, regeneration...
>
How about using inline 4 Cyl, one liter, liquid cooled motorcycle cylinder
blocks - say, from a Kawasaki GL1000. Mount 9 of them around a radial
crankcase that contains a planetary PSRU in the nose case. You would have a
36 cylinder, 9 liter replica of the Lycoming XR7755.
Bill Daniels
Fred the Red Shirt
August 7th 07, 03:31 PM
On Aug 6, 10:20 pm, cavelamb himself > wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Jul 27, 1:30 am, cavelamb himself >
> > wrote:
>
> wrote:
>
> >>>On Jul 26, 5:05 am, cavelamb himself >
> >>>wrote:
>
> wrote
....
>
> >>>According to Bradley Aerospace the engine included with the kit
> >>>they have up for auction on eBay is a 1600 cc VW aeroconversion
> >>>made by metric A/P.
> ...
> >>After some of the engines I've seen built by so called "experts"
> >>I'd really suggest contacting Great Plains and build your own.
>
> >>It's not hard to do if you follow the instructions and keep everything
> >>clean.
>
> >>And you KNOW what's in it.
>
> ...
> >http://www.hciaviation.com/pricing.shtml#standard
>
> > ...-- $6200 total?
>
> > Do you folks think their horsepower estimate (75 HP) is reasonable?
> > Do you think they would have better cooling inside of a NACAR
> > cowl than does a typical flat-four installation?
>
> > Compare that to a Great Plains 1600 cc V...
>
> > Total
> > $3900
>
> > Or for a 2800 cc '80 HP' Total ~
> > $5800
>
> > So it looks like maybe they can be cost competitive with
> > the bigger displacement VWs.
>
> > Meanwhile, does the term "aircraft A/P" mean anything to
> > anyone here? As in a person who makes airplane engines?
>
> ...
>
> Hi Again, Fred,
>
> Yeah, their horsepower estimates might be for real.
> Depends on how much fin area is aaliable to remove the heat of combistion.
>
> ... Sure, they may make more power tha that, but
> with stock heads, once the head is heat saturated anything over
> about 40 HP will lead to a serious overheating condition.
>
Yes, I've read veedubber's essays on VW aeroconversions.
The HCI radial has five cylinders, so it has more cooling
area and the radial spacing would also improve cooling I
think.
However, a more careful examination of the HCI website
and an email from the proprietor confirms that the kits
only include those parts that require close tolerances or
are machined from specialized castings. The builder
would need to make many more (albeit simpler) parts
from billet. Given the cost of custom work, I don't
doubt that one gets good parts for a fair price, but
you'll need more than a socket set to build one
of their engines from their kits--rats!
Meanwhile, Mr Huggins has sent me a longish (at least
compared to the previous correspondence) email explaining
among other things, that the 1600 cc aeroconversions he
is including with the kits advertised on eBay are made
for him by "an aircraft A/P that's in the VW business"
who does not sell to the public.
A phone call to Metric Auto Parts in Chico, CA confirms
that they are this mysterious supplier. I guess "A/P" means
"Auto Parts". Of course no one would confuse that with
"A&P" (airframe and power plant) so there was no need
for Mr Huggins to spell it out...
Scuttlebutt has it that he has sold a few kits and may
even have shipped or be near to shipping some at this
time. He is also rumored to be moving his operation from
his old location to a building near the airport.
--
FF
Fred the Red Shirt
August 7th 07, 03:35 PM
On Aug 7, 4:06 am, "Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:
> "Montblack" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > ("Fred the Red Shirt" wrote)
> >> I've also been thinking that one could design a radial engine that uses
> >> off-the-shelf VW cylinders, pistons and maybe even scat heads. As with
> >> most such ideas, someone else has already tried it:
>
> >>http://www.hciaviation.com/pricing.shtml#standard
>
> >http://www.hciaviation.com/images/r220_big.jpg
> > I'm seeing the birth of Borg technology
>
> ...
>
> How about using inline 4 Cyl, one liter, liquid cooled motorcycle cylinder
> blocks - say, from a Kawasaki GL1000. Mount 9 of them around a radial
> crankcase that contains a planetary PSRU in the nose case. You would have a
> 36 cylinder, 9 liter replica of the Lycoming XR7755.
>
I think one or two companies have made modular engines wherein
each module is a two cylinder boxer and you bolt them together
to make a flat four or six. If you bolted the second module on
at a right angle you'd have a pseudo-radial.
--
FF
Fred the Red Shirt
August 7th 07, 03:48 PM
Oh, his most recent eBay ad does not include an engine with
the kit. His buy it now price on eBay has been going up and
his price on his webpages has been coming down so it appears
they are converging right around ten grand, sans engine and
instruments.
--
FF
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