Top Ten Things that Suck About Oshkosh

[Jay Honeck]

In the past I've been accused of being hopelessly starry-eyed about
Oshkosh, to the point of waxing poetically sappy.

Just to prove that I'm not all sniffly about leaving OSH, I thought
I'd list my Top Ten List of things that suck about Oshkosh. Feel free
to add yours.

10. Seaplane Base Boredom. This year we inexplicably headed to the
Seaplane Base in the morning, rather than the afternoon. This would
have been okay, but the wind came up, whipped up whitecaps on Lake
Winnebago, and stopped all operations. There is, quite literally,
NOTHING to do there when the planes can't fly. This is okay for a
couple of hours, but not for more than three. Since we had tickets to
the fish fry, we didn't want to leave and come back (it's 20 minutes
from Wittman Field), so we were stuck. Mistake noted, not to be
repeated.

9. Dirt. It's everywhere at OSH, except when it's raining, and then
it's mud. It's the kind of dirt that, when you itch your arm, your
fingernails are instantly black. Sweat turns it to goo, and it's
usually hot.

8. Showering one-handed. Using a sink sprayer to wash is an exercise
in frustration, at best. Learning to shampoo with one hand whilst
spraying with the other is a skill no one should have to learn.

7. Idiots In Golf Carts. There is simply no excuse for them being
everywhere. You can't walk ANYWHERE without being forced to move
aside for them.

6. Idiots on Scooters. This is expanding exponentially, at roughly
the same rate at American's waist lines. The Korean War vet with no
legs deserves a scooter. The guy who hasn't seen his knees in 20
years should either walk or stay home.

5. Eating Late at Night. Because everyone wants to make every day
last, we often ended up eating late in the evening, followed by
collapsing in bed. For my system -- especially when eating like we
eat at OSH -- that means essentially living on Rolaids and Tums all
week, or suffering terrible acid reflux.

4. Being Bald. In the intense sun at OSH, being bald can be a very
painful liability. Your only hope is to wear a hat all the time,
which is a pain. (I suppose one could simply shave your head and wear
sun screen, too.)

3. Wearing Sunscreen. Each day, after showering off the topsoil, the
next step was to reapply sunscreen. Mix with Oshkosh Dirt (See #9,
above), and you've now got creamy mud. Worse, it must be reapplied
every few hours, so you're putting fresh cream on top of mud.

2. Distance. Everything is far, far away, no matter where you are.
We thought we were "close" to the restaurants, being camped on the
fenceline, when in fact in "real life" breakfast at the Hilton was
still over 5 blocks away, each way. Bike help in the North 40, but
can't be used on the show grounds. (But scooters can?!) We probably
walked over five miles each day -- some days much more.

1. NOT flying. This may sound counter-intuitive, but we fly less
during the week of Oshkosh than any other week during the year, simply
because it's SUCH a pain in the butt to fly in that area and return to
your campsite. (Just ask the guys who went flying Friday, and then
couldn't get back to their site when the airport was closed due to the
Mustang collision.) By the end of the week I find myself looking
forward to the flight home, just cuz it's FLYING.

So there you have it -- there really ARE bad things about Oshkosh.

God help me, I miss it so already...

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bob Noel]

In article m>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:

[snip]
> 8. Showering one-handed. Using a sink sprayer to wash is an exercise
> in frustration, at best. Learning to shampoo with one hand whilst
> spraying with the other is a skill no one should have to learn.

relax... a few years from now it won't be a problem,

> 4. Being Bald. In the intense sun at OSH, being bald can be a very
> painful liability. Your only hope is to wear a hat all the time,
> which is a pain. (I suppose one could simply shave your head and wear
> sun screen, too.)

there you go... :-)

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

Here's another one: long lines for food and water. It seemed like there were
a lot fewer food vendors present this year (not including McDonalds), and
that it was a 30+ minute wait to get anything.

[Jay Honeck]

> Here's another one: long lines for food and water. It seemed like there were
> a lot fewer food vendors present this year (not including McDonalds), and
> that it was a 30+ minute wait to get anything.

Yet another reason to eat off-field. We only ate one "meal" on the
field the whole week. (Lots of ice cream on those hot days, though!)

What day(s) were you there, Doc? I expected to run into you at some
point, but never did.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[george]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> In the past I've been accused of being hopelessly starry-eyed about
> Oshkosh, to the point of waxing poetically sappy.
>
> Just to prove that I'm not all sniffly about leaving OSH, I thought
> I'd list my Top Ten List of things that suck about Oshkosh. Feel free
> to add yours.


The worse thing about Oshkosh is that its not near enough for me to go
to :-(

[Jay Honeck]

> The worse thing about Oshkosh is that its not near enough for me to go
> to :-(

My kids were making mental lists of the various languages they heard
on the grounds at OSH, and it was soon clear that there were people
from all over the world at AirVenture. Clearly you have to live very
far away, indeed, to NOT be able to attend OSH.

I personally heard Russian, Portuguese, German, French, and Spanish.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

Went up for one day, with a specific list of booths to see, as well as to
hang out with the guys from our units (F-16 and KC-135). We came with our 11
year old son, and two of his buddies. They liked the pyro during the
airshow, while I enjoyed seeing the people at the Extra booth, Paraphernalia
(parachute guy), etc. I

I'm not too much of a gear head- I'd rather be flying than looking at
vintage or exotic stuff. As an example, I'd rather have a talk with Sean
Tucker than watch him fly, although he is obviously great. Had a brief talk
with one of the pilots of the navy MH-53, who was at the airshow and camping
with her parents- what a great accomplishment.

To me, it's more about the people in aviation rather than the hardware.
Plus, I went up in the flight suit- it's great PR for our units in the
state, but they are very hot in the sun.

I saw the expandable flag pole exhibit as well, and looked at the new
Lightspeed Zulu, which seemed pretty interesting. Also paid my Jeppesen
subscription and got an update for flightstar (which promptly locked up).
What do Ford and Honda have to do with aviation, although they obviously
paid big bucks for their exhibits?

Plus, we live so close that it hardly seems worth the time and effort to
camp, but this rules out having a few beers and then driving home
afterwards.

However, it was still a great day and a great experience, and one that I
certainly would do for a day each year.

[Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)]

I can't help with most things on your list, but I did see some concept
drawings for improvements to the grounds, and one major change is to put
in real shower buildings plus some camp areas with water & electricity.

Time frame you ask? I got no idea.
The changes to the site though are going to require a major expansion of
the transportation. Also the central area would be an area that would be
free of cars and carts.

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> 8. Showering one-handed. Using a sink sprayer to wash is an exercise
> in frustration, at best. Learning to shampoo with one hand whilst
> spraying with the other is a skill no one should have to learn.
>

[Jay Honeck]

> I can't help with most things on your list, but I did see some concept
> drawings for improvements to the grounds, and one major change is to put
> in real shower buildings plus some camp areas with water & electricity.

Just to be clear -- my "Thing that Suck" list is largely tongue-in-
cheek. Although there are definitely things that suck about the OSH
experience, I am hopelessly, endlessly devoted to the spirit and fun
of Airventure. I never want it to end.

That said, real shower buildings would be a nice upgrade. Sun N Fun
has 'em, and they're terrific.

I don't have a problem with the tram system, although the lines were
designed back when the "depth" of the grounds were half of what they
are today.

When we started attending OSH back in '83, the grounds started at Rwy
18/36, just like today, but ended at what is now the site of the four
big exhibition hangars, Hangars A through D.

That spot is now only about half way to the main entrance! The show
has really grown in that quarter of a century...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Viperdoc" > said:
>What do Ford and Honda have to do with aviation, although they obviously
>paid big bucks for their exhibits?

Ford Trimotor? HondaJet?

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Progress (n.): The process through which Usenet has evolved from
smart people in front of dumb terminals to dumb people in front
of smart terminals. --

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, george > said:
>The worse thing about Oshkosh is that its not near enough for me to go
>to :-(

The worst thing about Oshkosh is that my wife spent $30,000 remodeling our
kitchen so I have no money for taking a week off work this year.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
There is alleged to be an airport whose designator is ARP but I've
never got any response to my attempts to locate it.
-- Tanuki

[Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)]

Jay Honeck wrote:
> Just to be clear -- my "Thing that Suck" list is largely
tongue-in-cheek.
That was understood. I just wanted to post some info on what I heard
that may make things better.

Also, sorry I couldn't make it to your party. My solemn duties as a
chapter officer required me to go to the Ford tent that night and
schmooze with Jack Rausch, Edsel Ford II, and Bobby Unser. Well,
actually I never got closer than 25 feet from any of them.

[Blueskies]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message oups.com...
>
> That said, real shower buildings would be a nice upgrade. Sun N Fun
> has 'em, and they're terrific.
>


I heard quite a few folks say they had more fun at Sun & Fun. Less saturated experience they said...

[Larry Dighera]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:13:21 -0500, "Viperdoc"
> wrote in
>:

>Ford and Honda have to do with aviation


Umm... Willow Run, and the HondaJet? :-)

[Viperdoc[_4_]]

Is this why there was a huge tent full of Ford cars and another full of
Honda generators? It's just a larger scale version of the expandable flag
pole booth.

[Jim Burns]

Spent over 45minutes two days in a row standing in sweltering heat in line
for Zogg food... consolation? Matt Younkin and Kyle Franklin were just
ahead of us, in line, each of those two days. It was nice listening to them
as well as the fans that recognized them... sad part was the second day it
was just 40 minutes before Jim LeRoy died.

Tami and I missed you as well Viperdoc, I actually looked for you on
Wednesday near the KC135, to no avail.

Jim Burns

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
> Here's another one: long lines for food and water. It seemed like there
> were a lot fewer food vendors present this year (not including McDonalds),
> and that it was a 30+ minute wait to get anything.
>
>
>

[Jim Burns]

I think I saw and heard more foreigners than ever at OSH... cheap US $ =
lots of opportunity to spread aviation.
Jim

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> The worse thing about Oshkosh is that its not near enough for me to go
>> to :-(
>
> My kids were making mental lists of the various languages they heard
> on the grounds at OSH, and it was soon clear that there were people
> from all over the world at AirVenture. Clearly you have to live very
> far away, indeed, to NOT be able to attend OSH.
>
> I personally heard Russian, Portuguese, German, French, and Spanish.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

[Hawkeye[_2_]]

Good news is that according to an interview with Tom P. many upgrades
are in the works. EAA understands that if they want to continue to
attract attendees, they cannot be complacent and keep things as is.
Camping area expansion and upgrade was mentioned as was the new
control tower. Transportation on and off the field was another issue
mentioned.

If the continued popularity of satellite fields such as Appleton
continue to attract visitors who want to be close enough to Oshkosh
yet have the ability to come and go on their own schedules. More
facilities will probably be in the works there as well. The greater
number of folks commuting from Appleton to Oshkosh was noticeable this
year. Hotels were happy and more homes further away from the field
were available for rent and many are already contracted again for next
year.

Hopefully, things will continue to adapt and improve rapidly enough to
keep this event as popular as ever.

[Jay Honeck]

> The worst thing about Oshkosh is that my wife spent $30,000 remodeling our
> kitchen so I have no money for taking a week off work this year.

$30K for a KITCHEN?

Shoot, we remodeled the entire first floor lobby of the hotel for
$12K. (Of course, we did all the work ourselves. Cheapest
contractor-built quote: $50K)

I hope you get to eat at home every night and really get to enjoy it.
Sadly, if you're like our family, it's rare that the stove ever gets
turned on...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I heard quite a few folks say they had more fun at Sun & Fun. Less saturated experience they said...

More fun? Nah -- just different.

I enjoy both events immensely, but if I had to choose, it would be
OSH, hand's down.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> If the continued popularity of satellite fields such as Appleton
> continue to attract visitors who want to be close enough to Oshkosh
> yet have the ability to come and go on their own schedules.

This is a phenomenon that I truly don't understand. I have met many
people who have flown their aircraft all the way across the country,
only to stop 20 miles short of the main event and land off-field.

Dunno if it's fear of the Fisk Approach, or what, but take it from me,
a guy who spent his first 16 OSH fly-ins staying off-field -- there is
simply NO comparison between the two experiences.

When you're staying at Wittman Field, you are immersed in the
experience, as opposed to watching it. In many ways, if you haven't
stayed on the field, with your airplane, you haven't been to
AirVenture.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[george]

On Jul 30, 12:04 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > The worse thing about Oshkosh is that its not near enough for me to go
> > to :-(
>
> My kids were making mental lists of the various languages they heard
> on the grounds at OSH, and it was soon clear that there were people
> from all over the world at AirVenture. Clearly you have to live very
> far away, indeed, to NOT be able to attend OSH.
>
> I personally heard Russian, Portuguese, German, French, and Spanish.

They're almost next door :-)
It's about 16 hours from here to LA

[Hilton]

11. No kettle korn

[john smith[_2_]]

In article >,
"Viperdoc" > wrote:

> Is this why there was a huge tent full of Ford cars and another full of
> Honda generators? It's just a larger scale version of the expandable flag
> pole booth.

Ask the folks who camped around me what they think about Honda
generators in the airplane camping area.

[Jay Honeck]

> > Is this why there was a huge tent full of Ford cars and another full of
> > Honda generators? It's just a larger scale version of the expandable flag
> > pole booth.
>
> Ask the folks who camped around me what they think about Honda
> generators in the airplane camping area.

Although your new generator is very cool (EVERYONE used it to charge
cell phones, cameras, and laptops) I get Viperdoc's point.

At least Honda is sort of getting into aviation. No one knows what
Ford is doing there. (Although watching them test the Ford GT on a
track across the street from our campsite was pretty darned cool, I
must admit.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Jay Honeck > said:
>> The worst thing about Oshkosh is that my wife spent $30,000 remodeling our
>> kitchen so I have no money for taking a week off work this year.
>
>$30K for a KITCHEN?
>
>Shoot, we remodeled the entire first floor lobby of the hotel for
>$12K. (Of course, we did all the work ourselves. Cheapest
>contractor-built quote: $50K)

Yeah, but I bet you didn't get custom soapstone counter tops (but at least
I got to fly down to New Jersey so we could pick out the slabs) or Mission
style cupboards.

>I hope you get to eat at home every night and really get to enjoy it.
>Sadly, if you're like our family, it's rare that the stove ever gets
>turned on...

It was her mother who died and left us the money, so I don't get much say
in how it gets spent. I kept telling her that I could get a Cessna 180 on
straight floats for not much more than that, but she didn't listen.


--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
The only way to convince some people that HTML is about content, not
style is with a 2x4 <PLANK>.
-- Geoff. Lane

[Hawkeye[_2_]]

I agree that immersing yourself is the best part of the experience.
But some people prefer not to fly into such congestion or prefer to
park at a spot where their aircraft isn't fondled by everyone who
walks by. A good portion of the aircraft parking at ATW are heavy
twins and jets, these need hard surface parking which is not exactly
at a premium at OSH. I've camped in the RV campgrounds as well as
slept in a tent under a wing, both were fantastic. The nights at OSH
are something special in their own right. But then again some folks
just like hotels and need to get away from the hustle and bustle of
the show to unwind each evening. Staying in ATW gives them that
chance, plus there is a larger selection of eateries that you can
actually get a seat to eat dinner.

Tom P stated in the news interview that EAA was going to spend as much
money as they have during the past 25 years in the next five to
upgrade the infrastructure of the event. Better transportation around
the field so people don't have to walk as much. It was evident this
year the number of elderly and handicap people who love attending this
show will benefit most.

For those of you who complain about the rain turning the soil into
mud, don't remember the years when it was nearly a hundred degrees all
week with high humidity and no rain. The grass was brown and each step
you took resulted in a mini dust storm. Or if someone started up their
aircraft it was a major dust storm. It was always funny to see the
pictures taken from the air a couple days after the show, revealing
the green silhouettes of the aircraft from the untrampled grass under
each plane.

A little landscaping around some of the troubled areas prone to
flooding need to be addressed, those are simple fixes if someone just
takes the time to do it.

[Jay Honeck]

> Yeah, but I bet you didn't get custom soapstone counter tops (but at least
> I got to fly down to New Jersey so we could pick out the slabs) or Mission
> style cupboards.

Ah, good. At least aviation was in there somewhere...

:-)

> It was her mother who died and left us the money, so I don't get much say
> in how it gets spent. I kept telling her that I could get a Cessna 180 on
> straight floats for not much more than that, but she didn't listen.

ROTFL! Funny how that sort of thing doesn't translate sometimes...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N

[john smith[_2_]]

In article . com>,
Hawkeye > wrote:

> A little landscaping around some of the troubled areas prone to
> flooding need to be addressed, those are simple fixes if someone just
> takes the time to do it.

But then they wouldn't be able to park airplanes there!
Each of those airplanes represents $19/day.
They would lose money, and as we know, it is all about money.

[Gattman[_2_]]

> [snip]
>> 8. Showering one-handed.

Having not been to OSH myself, I'm not sure I want to know why you guys have
to shower one-handed, but I figure it's got something to do with the
beautiful nose-art, the abundance of sexy aircraft or maybe those retro
flight attendants costumes I saw in a C-47 photo.

;P

Which reminds me: I'm surprised Viagra doesn't sponsor an aerobatic team.
An infinite supply of pun fodder there...

-c

[john smith[_2_]]

> >> 8. Showering one-handed.

"Gattman" > wrote:
> Having not been to OSH myself, I'm not sure I want to know why you guys have
> to shower one-handed, but I figure it's got something to do with the
> beautiful nose-art, the abundance of sexy aircraft or maybe those retro
> flight attendants costumes I saw in a C-47 photo.

You get to stand in a 2ft x 2ft x 7ft stall and use a kitchen sink spray
handle attached to a 3ft hose to rinse your body.

[C J Campbell[_1_]]

On 2007-07-29 15:55:23 -0700, Jay Honeck > said:

>
> 6. Idiots on Scooters. This is expanding exponentially, at roughly
> the same rate at American's waist lines. The Korean War vet with no
> legs deserves a scooter. The guy who hasn't seen his knees in 20
> years should either walk or stay home.

Seems a tad harsh, if not downright insensitive. There are people with
serious heart conditions or other problems that keep them from walking
long distances. Who appointed you to decide who is worthy of a scooter
or not?


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:55:44 -0700, Jay Honeck >
wrote:

> $30K for a KITCHEN?

If you went with high end appliances and such, I can see that
happening rather easily...

$8999 -- Viking 48" Self-Clean Sealed Burner Gas Range with 4 Burners
& 24-Inch Wok/Cooker - Stainless Steel
http://www.us-appliance.com/vgvi48sesebu5.html

$1679 -- Viking Classic Chimney Ledgeless 48" Wide Wall Hood Designer
Series - Stainless Steel
http://www.us-appliance.com/dcviclchlewa.html

$189 -- Viking Backsplash for 48 Inch hood

$5199 -- Viking 36" All Freezer Professional Series - Stainless Steel
http://www.us-appliance.com/vcvi36allfrp.html

$4999 -- Viking 36" Wide All Refrigerator Professional Series -
Stainless Steel
http://www.us-appliance.com/vcvi36wiallr.html

$979 -- Viking Convection Microwave/Hood Oven Professional Series -
Stainless Steel
http://www.us-appliance.com/vmvicomiovpr1.html

$2579 -- Viking 15" Wide Ice Machine Pro Series - Right Hinged -
Stainless Steel
http://www.us-appliance.com/vuvi15wiunic.html

$1549 -- Viking Undercounter Ultra-Premium Dishwasher - Custom Panel
Ready
http://www.us-appliance.com/dfviunuldipr.html

$6199 -- Viking 30" Designer Full-Height Wine Cellar - Fluted Glass
Door - Right Hinge - Stainless Steel
http://www.us-appliance.com/ddvi30defuwi1.html

$1899 -- Viking 18" Wide Trash Compactor Professional Series -
Stainless Steel
http://www.us-appliance.com/vuvi18witrco.html

$359 -- Viking 1 HP Continuous Feed Food Waste Disposer
http://www.us-appliance.com/vcvi1hpcofef.html

$1699 -- Viking 36" Warming Drawer Professional Series - Stainless
Steel
http://www.us-appliance.com/vevi36wadrpr.html

$650 -- John Boos Gourmet Pot Rack
http://www.us-appliance.com/cujobogopotr.html


So far, that's $36,978 just for appliances not including any granite
countertops which could easily run $100 per sq-ft for very high end
full thickness edge type slabs... Assuming 20 linear feet of
countertop and it being 2 ft deep, that's an extra $4000 for a total
of $40,978... Add on top of that some high end cabinets with dovetail
joints, solid wood construction, and possibly exotic woods you could
definitely be getting up there in price...

If you've got the money, they've got something for you to spend it
on...

[Jim Burns[_2_]]

Wow... you need to join that Buy-Direct Club like the guy who was going to
spend $63,000 on cabinets! LOL
Jim

"Grumman-581" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:55:44 -0700, Jay Honeck >
> wrote:
>
> > $30K for a KITCHEN?
>
> If you went with high end appliances and such, I can see that
> happening rather easily...
>
> $8999 -- Viking 48" Self-Clean Sealed Burner Gas Range with 4 Burners
> & 24-Inch Wok/Cooker - Stainless Steel
> http://www.us-appliance.com/vgvi48sesebu5.html
>
> $1679 -- Viking Classic Chimney Ledgeless 48" Wide Wall Hood Designer
> Series - Stainless Steel
> http://www.us-appliance.com/dcviclchlewa.html
>
> $189 -- Viking Backsplash for 48 Inch hood
>
> $5199 -- Viking 36" All Freezer Professional Series - Stainless Steel
> http://www.us-appliance.com/vcvi36allfrp.html
>
> $4999 -- Viking 36" Wide All Refrigerator Professional Series -
> Stainless Steel
> http://www.us-appliance.com/vcvi36wiallr.html
>
> $979 -- Viking Convection Microwave/Hood Oven Professional Series -
> Stainless Steel
> http://www.us-appliance.com/vmvicomiovpr1.html
>
> $2579 -- Viking 15" Wide Ice Machine Pro Series - Right Hinged -
> Stainless Steel
> http://www.us-appliance.com/vuvi15wiunic.html
>
> $1549 -- Viking Undercounter Ultra-Premium Dishwasher - Custom Panel
> Ready
> http://www.us-appliance.com/dfviunuldipr.html
>
> $6199 -- Viking 30" Designer Full-Height Wine Cellar - Fluted Glass
> Door - Right Hinge - Stainless Steel
> http://www.us-appliance.com/ddvi30defuwi1.html
>
> $1899 -- Viking 18" Wide Trash Compactor Professional Series -
> Stainless Steel
> http://www.us-appliance.com/vuvi18witrco.html
>
> $359 -- Viking 1 HP Continuous Feed Food Waste Disposer
> http://www.us-appliance.com/vcvi1hpcofef.html
>
> $1699 -- Viking 36" Warming Drawer Professional Series - Stainless
> Steel
> http://www.us-appliance.com/vevi36wadrpr.html
>
> $650 -- John Boos Gourmet Pot Rack
> http://www.us-appliance.com/cujobogopotr.html
>
>
> So far, that's $36,978 just for appliances not including any granite
> countertops which could easily run $100 per sq-ft for very high end
> full thickness edge type slabs... Assuming 20 linear feet of
> countertop and it being 2 ft deep, that's an extra $4000 for a total
> of $40,978... Add on top of that some high end cabinets with dovetail
> joints, solid wood construction, and possibly exotic woods you could
> definitely be getting up there in price...
>
> If you've got the money, they've got something for you to spend it
> on...

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, Grumman-581 > said:
>On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 19:55:44 -0700, Jay Honeck >
>wrote:
>
>> $30K for a KITCHEN?
>
>If you went with high end appliances and such, I can see that
>happening rather easily...

http://gallery.xcski.com/v/Our+House/renovations/kitchen/




--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
As it should be - snipe at *.mil and expect to drop any plans for
the rest of that day.
-- Alex

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, john smith > said:
>> >> 8. Showering one-handed.
>
>"Gattman" > wrote:
>> Having not been to OSH myself, I'm not sure I want to know why you guys have
>> to shower one-handed, but I figure it's got something to do with the
>> beautiful nose-art, the abundance of sexy aircraft or maybe those retro
>> flight attendants costumes I saw in a C-47 photo.
>
>You get to stand in a 2ft x 2ft x 7ft stall and use a kitchen sink spray
>handle attached to a 3ft hose to rinse your body.

And lest you think these are real stalls, all it is are 3 slimy mouldy
shower curtains.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
I think I'd like to see a Simpsons episode starting up with Bart Simpson
writing 'I will not attempt to undermine the Usenet Cabal'.
-- J. D. Falk

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> > Is this why there was a huge tent full of Ford cars and another full of
>> > Honda generators? It's just a larger scale version of the expandable
>> > flag
>> > pole booth.
>>
>> Ask the folks who camped around me what they think about Honda
>> generators in the airplane camping area.
>
> Although your new generator is very cool (EVERYONE used it to charge
> cell phones, cameras, and laptops) I get Viperdoc's point.
>
> At least Honda is sort of getting into aviation. No one knows what
> Ford is doing there. <...>

They were spending a pile of money - Duuh....

:-)

The company was hyping this up on the internal web pages - number of people,
"exclusive automotive sponsor since 199something" - had some pictures too,
but I didn't see you in them - so how do I know that you were really there?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Grumman-581[_1_]]

On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:29:40 +0000 (UTC),
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> >You get to stand in a 2ft x 2ft x 7ft stall and use a kitchen sink spray
> >handle attached to a 3ft hose to rinse your body.
>
> And lest you think these are real stalls, all it is are 3 slimy mouldy
> shower curtains.

I think they're a bit larger than 2ft x 2ft... I suspect that the
reason for the kitchen sink spray handle is to conserve water (and as
such reduce costs)... They wouldn't want to use a higher end type
spray handle like we had aboard ship in the Navy since it would cost
more and someone might be tempted to steal it... It's probably a safe
bet that no one is going to steal the low end Wal-Mart kitchen sink
sprays that they were using... Temperature control would be nice also
since sometimes you want a cool shower and sometimes you want a warm
shower...

[flynrider via AviationKB.com]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>At least Honda is sort of getting into aviation. No one knows what
>Ford is doing there.

They're bringing back the Tri-Motor.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200707/1

[flynrider via AviationKB.com]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>1. NOT flying. This may sound counter-intuitive, but we fly less
>during the week of Oshkosh than any other week during the year, simply
>because it's SUCH a pain in the butt to fly in that area and return to
>your campsite. (Just ask the guys who went flying Friday, and then
>couldn't get back to their site when the airport was closed due to the
>Mustang collision.) By the end of the week I find myself looking
>forward to the flight home, just cuz it's FLYING.
>

This is one of the main reasons I don't do Oshkosh. I have limited time
off, and I like to spend it flying.

Last week, whilst flying and camping around Montana, I was asked (for
probably the 1000th time) why I wasn't at OSH. After all these years, I
finally came up with a response that brings the OSH conversation to an
immediate close. My reply :

"I'm not really into that NASCAR stuff."

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200707/1

[Morgans[_2_]]

>> A little landscaping around some of the troubled areas prone to
>> flooding need to be addressed, those are simple fixes if someone just
>> takes the time to do it.
>
> But then they wouldn't be able to park airplanes there!
> Each of those airplanes represents $19/day.
> They would lose money, and as we know, it is all about money.

I believe that he is talking about landscaping in terms of providing the
correct slope and proper drainage, so that water does not stand in your
parking and camping area, not the kind of landscaping that plants pretty
flower beds and trees and such.

As a contractor, I agree that it would not take that much to provide some
storm drains and french drains, and build a few permanent shower building
with real hot and cold water and private dressing areas.

I was always told that part of the reason that there are shower trailers and
holding tanks was that the airport powers that be would not let anyone build
permanent buildings and real sanitary sewer systems on the airport property.

Perhaps some of the city elders are starting to see which side their bread
is buttered on.

There are more events held on the airport property than airventure every
year. More permanent infrastructure could only be a good thing for these
events to grow, and attract more events to the grounds.
--
Jim in NC

[Tater]

On Jul 29, 5:55 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
> 10. Seaplane Base Boredom.

did it one year, but realized we was wasting time riding a bus that we
could be using looking at planes, have decided not to return.

>
> 9. Dirt. It's everywhere at OSH, except when it's raining, and then

wasnt that much in scholler. you must have had bad luck.

> 8. Showering one-handed. Using a sink sprayer to wash is an exercise

get wet, let go of sprayer, apply soap/shampoo, lather, rinse, etc.
It's what i did. amazing that water stayed so nice and warm tho

> 5. Eating Late at Night. Because everyone wants to make every day
> ......
> eat at OSH -- that means essentially living on Rolaids and Tums all
> week, or suffering terrible acid reflux.

yep, forgot mine, had to get some at the camp store

> 4. Being Bald. In the intense sun at OSH, being bald can be a very
> painful liability. Your only hope is to wear a hat all the time,

have hair and wear a hat to protect your neck from excessive burnning.
head feels like it is soaking in soup

> 3. Wearing Sunscreen. Each day, after showering off the topsoil, the

I didn't. burned the first day, got a great tan afterwards

> God help me, I miss it so already...

me too, got my student SLA this year(free to EAA members attending)
and paid for a set of double eagle plans, the cheapest LSA at Osh, and
possibly anywhere

[Tater]

On Jul 29, 9:13 pm, "Jim Burns" > wrote:
> Spent over 45minutes two days in a row standing in sweltering heat in line
> for Zogg food..

woke up when i felt like it in scholler(about 6ish) showered, went to
either vickis or the church place to eat breakfast, both offcially
offsite, both fairly cheap. lunch in aces cafe. ate zogg food once to
use up the $1 coupon in my EAA book.

yeah, all were madhouses after 11 am. didnt bother with dinner. ate
tons of popcorn at the fly-in theater instead.

[Tater]

On Jul 29, 10:03 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> When you're staying at Wittman Field, you are immersed in the
> experience, as opposed to watching it. In many ways, if you haven't
> stayed on the field, with your airplane, you haven't been to
> AirVenture.

or in scholler if you dont have a plane/liscence. I think it might be
better than plane camping even!

[Tater]

On Jul 30, 3:29 pm, (Paul Tomblin) wrote:
> In a previous article, john smith > said:
>
> And lest you think these are real stalls, all it is are 3 slimy mouldy
> shower curtains.
>
oh! camped in one fo the more remote areas? like the west scholler
stalls?

the ones by the barn camp store are real stalls, not a rats nest of
curtains like other shower areas

[Jay Honeck]

> > And lest you think these are real stalls, all it is are 3 slimy mouldy
> > shower curtains.
>
> oh! camped in one fo the more remote areas? like the west scholler
> stalls? the ones by the barn camp store are real stalls, not a rats nest of
> curtains like other shower areas

The showers in the North 40 are REAL shower stalls, with no curtains
at all. Dunno where Paul saw shower curtains, but it wasn't in the
North 40.

The rest of the description is accurate, although they are actually
kept quite clean. I met and spoke with the guys who clean them thrice
daily during the convention, and they took a great deal of pride in
keeping them spotless.

Well, okay, by week's end the trough/sink was getting mouldy, but
whaddya expect in a high-humidity environment?

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> > 6. Idiots on Scooters. This is expanding exponentially, at roughly
> > the same rate at American's waist lines. The Korean War vet with no
> > legs deserves a scooter. The guy who hasn't seen his knees in 20
> > years should either walk or stay home.
>
> Seems a tad harsh, if not downright insensitive. There are people with
> serious heart conditions or other problems that keep them from walking
> long distances. Who appointed you to decide who is worthy of a scooter
> or not?

Airventure is an outdoor event, with a flight line that is 3 miles
long by 1 mile deep. Unless and until EAA comes up with dedicated
scooter/cart paths, the spread of these abominations will be a threat
to every able-bodied participant at Oshkosh.

My family spent the better part of every day dodging idiots learning
to drive these things, and it got old real fast. It was especially
fun when they would try to ram their way through crowded exhibition
halls. Nothing like having someone stuff their face in your armpit,
as they try to ride through the steaming masses.

(Just to be clear, I'm bitching about those stupid rental electric
tricycles, not the Honda scooters that many volunteers were riding.
The volunteers at least had the common sense to stay outdoors with
them.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> "I'm not really into that NASCAR stuff."

The NASCAR crowd (which is our code for the airshow attendees who
leave a pile of empty beer cans and the ground covered with butts when
they leave) is largely absent from OSH, at least until the weekend.

During the week, the crowds are fantastically clean, well-behaved, and
knowledgable. Most are pilots, of course.

Only on Saturday and Sunday are the grounds flooded with the unwashed
masses -- but this was how many of us were first exposed to OSH, so I
won't complain too much. I once walked among them.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> Well, okay, by week's end the trough/sink was getting mouldy, but
> whaddya expect in a high-humidity environment?

Uh ... bleach?

I've been to OSH only once, in 1995 to see the warbird gathering. That
was truly spectacular and mad the trip worthwhile, but little else about
Osh Kosh was appealing to me. I camped right near Basler (had my tail
against their fence), which was a nice location, but a lot bus ride/hike
to the real action.

It was fun to look at the wide array of airplanes, but I have to admit
that I'm not a crowd person and the heat, humidity and crowds took away
most of the fun for me. After two nights of camping, we moved into the
dorms as a room opened up and the showers in the north 40 were terrible
(they were trailers back then) and the lines were long. If you didn't
get up before 6 AM, you had a 60 minute wait in line ... at least. I
usually either got up at 5 or waiting and showered in the early afternoon.

I haven't been back since as I much more enjoy going to a local fly-in
breakfast or smaller airshow. I thought Osh Kosh, even back then, was
too oriented towards the flea market masses and already was emphasizing
commercialism over aviation. I doubt it has gotten better since then
and back then the problems with scooters and carts was fairly minor.
Adding that into the mix would really turn me off.

So, I'm glad it appeals to many folks, but give me a local fly-in
breakfast any day! You get to fly, you don't have huge crowds, the food
is always great and you can actually talk to the people about their
airplanes as they aren't distracted trying to keep 15 people from
walking on their wings or breaking off antennas and pitot tubes.


Matt

[Matt Whiting]

flynrider via AviationKB.com wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>> 1. NOT flying. This may sound counter-intuitive, but we fly less
>> during the week of Oshkosh than any other week during the year, simply
>> because it's SUCH a pain in the butt to fly in that area and return to
>> your campsite. (Just ask the guys who went flying Friday, and then
>> couldn't get back to their site when the airport was closed due to the
>> Mustang collision.) By the end of the week I find myself looking
>> forward to the flight home, just cuz it's FLYING.
>>
>
> This is one of the main reasons I don't do Oshkosh. I have limited time
> off, and I like to spend it flying.
>
> Last week, whilst flying and camping around Montana, I was asked (for
> probably the 1000th time) why I wasn't at OSH. After all these years, I
> finally came up with a response that brings the OSH conversation to an
> immediate close. My reply :
>
> "I'm not really into that NASCAR stuff."

John, that is the best description I've heard. My sentiments exactly, I
just didn't know how to express them so succinctly!

Matt

[john smith[_2_]]

In article >,
"Morgans" > wrote:

> There are more events held on the airport property than airventure every
> year. More permanent infrastructure could only be a good thing for these
> events to grow, and attract more events to the grounds.

Homeland Security is having more say in who and where groups can play on
airports.

[Jay Honeck]

> It was fun to look at the wide array of airplanes, but I have to admit
> that I'm not a crowd person and the heat, humidity and crowds took away
> most of the fun for me.

There have been years when it was so hot and humid that it was hard to
have fun. I don't remember '95 specifically, but I know there was a
run of brutal summers in the '90s that made OSH tough to take. (Back
then we were camping in Mary's aunt's driveway, in our pop-up camper,
in nearby Neenah, so I could step into air conditioning in the
evening... ;-)

> So, I'm glad it appeals to many folks, but give me a local fly-in
> breakfast any day! You get to fly, you don't have huge crowds, the food
> is always great

You had me up till that last line. I've eaten more rubber eggs at fly-
in breakfasts than I care to remember, and the food is rarely
"great". Luckily, it's not the food that attracts me to these
wonderful little aviation icons...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt Whiting]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> It was fun to look at the wide array of airplanes, but I have to admit
>> that I'm not a crowd person and the heat, humidity and crowds took away
>> most of the fun for me.
>
> There have been years when it was so hot and humid that it was hard to
> have fun. I don't remember '95 specifically, but I know there was a
> run of brutal summers in the '90s that made OSH tough to take. (Back
> then we were camping in Mary's aunt's driveway, in our pop-up camper,
> in nearby Neenah, so I could step into air conditioning in the
> evening... ;-)
>
>> So, I'm glad it appeals to many folks, but give me a local fly-in
>> breakfast any day! You get to fly, you don't have huge crowds, the food
>> is always great
>
> You had me up till that last line. I've eaten more rubber eggs at fly-
> in breakfasts than I care to remember, and the food is rarely
> "great". Luckily, it's not the food that attracts me to these
> wonderful little aviation icons...

You just haven't been to right places! Stop by N38 on either Memorial
Day weekend or Labor Day weekend (Sunday morning on both weekends).
There are several other airports around here that have very nice fly-in
breakfasts and the price is right ($4-5 typically).

Matt

[Morgans[_2_]]

"john smith" > wrote
>
> Homeland Security is having more say in who and where groups can play on
> airports.

Unless you know that what you are saying applies directly to Oshkosh, I have
to say that you don't know what you are talking about, in this case.

There are LARGE national conventions taking place at Oshkosh.

All there needs to be is a fence in-between where the people are staying and
having the convention, and where the runway access is, and the security
issue is moot.
--
Jim in NC

[Ken Finney]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> It was fun to look at the wide array of airplanes, but I have to admit
>> that I'm not a crowd person and the heat, humidity and crowds took away
>> most of the fun for me.
>
> There have been years when it was so hot and humid that it was hard to
> have fun. I don't remember '95 specifically, but I know there was a
> run of brutal summers in the '90s that made OSH tough to take. (Back
> then we were camping in Mary's aunt's driveway, in our pop-up camper,
> in nearby Neenah, so I could step into air conditioning in the
> evening... ;-)
>
>> So, I'm glad it appeals to many folks, but give me a local fly-in
>> breakfast any day! You get to fly, you don't have huge crowds, the food
>> is always great
>
> You had me up till that last line. I've eaten more rubber eggs at fly-
> in breakfasts than I care to remember, and the food is rarely
> "great". Luckily, it's not the food that attracts me to these
> wonderful little aviation icons...

Scrambled eggs are supposed to be rubbery, and the hash browns are supposed
to be soaked in pancake syrup. It's the other places besides fly-ins that
don't know how to make them!

[Jim Logajan]

"Morgans" > wrote:
> "john smith" > wrote
>>
>> Homeland Security is having more say in who and where groups can play
>> on airports.
>
> Unless you know that what you are saying applies directly to Oshkosh,
> I have to say that you don't know what you are talking about, in this
> case.
>
> There are LARGE national conventions taking place at Oshkosh.
>
> All there needs to be is a fence in-between where the people are
> staying and having the convention, and where the runway access is, and
> the security issue is moot.

You know - I'm surprised that the TSA didn't order a TFR over Oshkosh
since there would be so many people there. ;-)

(Rats - I made the mistake of Googling to see if that joke had been
done, and sure enough it is several years old:

http://www.aero-news.net/SpecialContent.cfm?ContentBlockID=f1fa53fd-4f0e-4108-be4e-34516401e67e&cat=6
)

[B A R R Y]

On Wed, 1 Aug 2007 00:14:06 GMT, "Ken Finney"
> wrote:

>
>Scrambled eggs are supposed to be rubbery, and the hash browns are supposed
>to be soaked in pancake syrup. It's the other places besides fly-ins that
>don't know how to make them!
>

At least one person understands...

I can't cook, but when I looked out at the 15 Beech 19/23/24 type
aircraft parked nearby, I knew the fly-in I hosted was a success!

[john smith[_2_]]

> "john smith" > wrote
> > Homeland Security is having more say in who and where groups can play on
> > airports.

> "Morgans" > wrote:
> Unless you know that what you are saying applies directly to Oshkosh, I have
> to say that you don't know what you are talking about, in this case.
> There are LARGE national conventions taking place at Oshkosh.
> All there needs to be is a fence in-between where the people are staying and
> having the convention, and where the runway access is, and the security
> issue is moot.

That is exactly my point, Jim.
Fences are going up at every airport at each airport's expense.
Post 9/11 our airport manage was told they had to put up a fence and
control all access to the airport movement areas.
Time was anyone could walk out the door of the FBO and stroll around
looking at airplanes. Not anymore.

[Tater]

On Jul 31, 9:16 pm, john smith > wrote:
> > "john smith" > wrote
> > > Homeland Security is having more say in who and where groups can play on
> > > airports.
> > "Morgans" > wrote:
> > Unless you know that what you are saying applies directly to Oshkosh, I have
> > to say that you don't know what you are talking about, in this case.
> > There are LARGE national conventions taking place at Oshkosh.
> > All there needs to be is a fence in-between where the people are staying and
> > having the convention, and where the runway access is, and the security
> > issue is moot.
>
> That is exactly my point, Jim.
> Fences are going up at every airport at each airport's expense.
> Post 9/11 our airport manage was told they had to put up a fence and
> control all access to the airport movement areas.
> Time was anyone could walk out the door of the FBO and stroll around
> looking at airplanes. Not anymore.

you can at MDZ

[Tater]

On Jul 31, 6:09 am, Matt Whiting > wrote:
> So, I'm glad it appeals to many folks, but give me a local fly-in
> breakfast any day!

agreed, but when i go to those i get really frustrated. I'll see a
plane and try to find the pilot to ask a technical question about it
and he'll be busy mixing up another batch of pancakes or will be an
owner-only type who doesnt know how his airplane works.

at oshkosh i tend to go to the really esoteric seminars. in fact i was
there nearly 4 days before i went to look at planes. talked to a
couple of the NASA folks, a composites expert, Leonard Millholland
about his deouble eagle design, and shell oil about the benefits of
ashless oil.

nope, i didnt see yeager, as he just repeats what was in his bio, and
his speaking is getting harder and harder to understand, along with
the massive crowd that flocks to him.

did'nt go to any of the virgin galactic presentations after i saw the
one in theater/woods. a whole pile of BS with marketing gloss applied
liberally(scaled just announced who whas supplying their honeycomb,
and they expect us to believe they'll roll out SS2 early next year
when they still dont have a finalized design on the seats or flight
suits?)

also, going to the building seminars beats having pilot joe show you
how *he* builds an airplane(and wether it is the right way or not!)

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

11. A spider the size of a stone crab that crawls into your one-man tent.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

john smith wrote:
>> "john smith" > wrote
>>> Homeland Security is having more say in who and where groups can
>>> play on airports.
>
>> "Morgans" > wrote:
>> Unless you know that what you are saying applies directly to
>> Oshkosh, I have to say that you don't know what you are talking
>> about, in this case. There are LARGE national conventions taking
>> place at Oshkosh. All there needs to be is a fence in-between where
>> the people are staying and having the convention, and where the
>> runway access is, and the security issue is moot.
>
> That is exactly my point, Jim.
> Fences are going up at every airport at each airport's expense.
> Post 9/11 our airport manage was told they had to put up a fence and
> control all access to the airport movement areas.
> Time was anyone could walk out the door of the FBO and stroll around
> looking at airplanes. Not anymore.

ELD got our nice new multi-million dollar fence and we have to punch in a
code to enter. But the main terminal ramp area is only "secured" by TSA when
a scheduled flight is there.

As far as people wondering out to look at planes I'm gind of glad there is
another boundry to protect my not insignificant investment (and my planes
cheap). How many people keep there multi-hundred thousand dollar cars out on
the street?

[Jay Honeck]

> > 4. Being Bald. In the intense sun at OSH, being bald can be a very
> > painful liability. Your only hope is to wear a hat all the time,
>
> have hair and wear a hat to protect your neck from excessive burnning.
> head feels like it is soaking in soup

Actually, WRT OSH, being bald(er) is sometimes an advantage.

I remember my first OSH's, when I would have to actually blow-dry my
hair after showering. Now, I just comb the remnants into line, walk
outside, and it's instantly dry!

Until you put that hat back on, of course.

*sigh* At least I don't get "Hat Hair" anymore!

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[S Green]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> > 4. Being Bald. In the intense sun at OSH, being bald can be a very
>> > painful liability. Your only hope is to wear a hat all the time,
>>
>> have hair and wear a hat to protect your neck from excessive burnning.
>> head feels like it is soaking in soup
>
> Actually, WRT OSH, being bald(er) is sometimes an advantage.
>
> I remember my first OSH's, when I would have to actually blow-dry my
> hair after showering. Now, I just comb the remnants into line, walk
> outside, and it's instantly dry!

Ah the comb-over Thought they had gone years ago.

[Matt Whiting]

Dan Luke wrote:
> 11. A spider the size of a stone crab that crawls into your one-man tent.
>
>

Did you fry it or roast it? :-)

Matt

[Bob Noel]

In article om>,
Jay Honeck > wrote:


> Actually, WRT OSH, being bald(er) is sometimes an advantage.
>
> I remember my first OSH's, when I would have to actually blow-dry my
> hair after showering. Now, I just comb the remnants into line, walk
> outside, and it's instantly dry!

for some reason, I think I'd rather have my hair back... :-(

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

[Kyle Boatright]

"C J Campbell" > wrote in message
news:2007073010193616807-christophercampbell@hotmailcom...
> On 2007-07-29 15:55:23 -0700, Jay Honeck > said:
>
>>
>> 6. Idiots on Scooters. This is expanding exponentially, at roughly
>> the same rate at American's waist lines. The Korean War vet with no
>> legs deserves a scooter. The guy who hasn't seen his knees in 20
>> years should either walk or stay home.
>
> Seems a tad harsh, if not downright insensitive. There are people with
> serious heart conditions or other problems that keep them from walking
> long distances. Who appointed you to decide who is worthy of a scooter or
> not?
>

Being obese and lazy doesn't count as a medical condition in my book. I
believe those are the people Jay is addressing, and I agree - lose the
scooters. It would be good for everyone involved.

The porking up of America is one of my pet peeves, and I don't have much
tolerance for grossly obese people who pound down gobs of fast food, then
drive themselves from one end of the strip mall to the other to avoid
walking 1/4 mile. These are the same people who make up much of the scooter
crowd at Oshkosh, SnF, and at the mall.

These people need to do more walking and less eating.

I was disgusted at lunch the other day when I stopped by Wendy's for a quick
bite. A woman who went at least 350 lbs was at a table, with a crumpled
burger wrapper and empty fry sleeve (large) scattered across the tabletop.
She was pounding down a Grande sized Frostie - the next one down from a 5
gallon bucket.

And she probably claims that a thyroid condition is responsible for her
extra 200+ pounds.

Aargh.

KB

>
> --
> Waddling Eagle
> World Famous Flight Instructor
>

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Matt Whiting" wrote:

>> 11. A spider the size of a stone crab that crawls into your one-man tent.
>
> Did you fry it or roast it? :-)


There was considerable doubt for a while as to who was above whom on the food
chain. Fortunately, several blows from my all-in-one copy of the Bourne
Trilogy convinced the beast to retreat.

Later that night, I thought I heard screams from another campsite. Did anyone
hear about any missing persons from the North 40?

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Kyle Boatright" > wrote

> Being obese and lazy doesn't count as a medical condition in my book. I
> believe those are the people Jay is addressing, and I agree - lose the
> scooters. It would be good for everyone involved.
>
> The porking up of America is one of my pet peeves, and I don't have much
> tolerance for grossly obese people who pound down gobs of fast food, then
> drive themselves from one end of the strip mall to the other to avoid
> walking 1/4 mile. These are the same people who make up much of the
> scooter crowd at Oshkosh, SnF, and at the mall.
>
> These people need to do more walking and less eating.

So, how about me?

If you were to look at me, you would think I was a perfectly healthy person.
At 5' 11" and 168 pounds, I am not thin, but not overweight, either. If I
were to ride up on a scooter, get off and look around at a plane, would you
be looking down at me?

I have had two back surgeries that did not help my condition, and live in
near constant pain. OSH is a problem for me. The last time I went, I would
have to come back to my tent and rest my back in mid afternoon. I just
could not go any further. Walking any great distance does me in.

If I return to Airventure, the only way I can fully experience it, is likely
going to involve a scooter. It is the only way cover the miles, and still
have anything left to keep going.

So, do I qualify? How do we draw the line?

In my opinion, it is not the presence of the scooters that is the problem.
It is how they are driven. People need to be patient, and not use a vehicle
as a way to get people to move out of the way. Some way to keep this in line
is the solution.
--
Jim in NC

[Kyle Boatright]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Kyle Boatright" > wrote
>
>> Being obese and lazy doesn't count as a medical condition in my book. I
>> believe those are the people Jay is addressing, and I agree - lose the
>> scooters. It would be good for everyone involved.
>>
>> The porking up of America is one of my pet peeves, and I don't have much
>> tolerance for grossly obese people who pound down gobs of fast food, then
>> drive themselves from one end of the strip mall to the other to avoid
>> walking 1/4 mile. These are the same people who make up much of the
>> scooter crowd at Oshkosh, SnF, and at the mall.
>>
>> These people need to do more walking and less eating.
>
> So, how about me?

Unless you are grossly obese because of poor lifestyle choices AND are
driving a scooter at Oshkosh (or Snf, whatever) due to your self-inflicted
condition, you're outside the scope of this conversation...

>
> If you were to look at me, you would think I was a perfectly healthy
> person. At 5' 11" and 168 pounds, I am not thin, but not overweight,
> either. If I were to ride up on a scooter, get off and look around at a
> plane, would you be looking down at me?
>
> I have had two back surgeries that did not help my condition, and live in
> near constant pain. OSH is a problem for me. The last time I went, I
> would have to come back to my tent and rest my back in mid afternoon. I
> just could not go any further. Walking any great distance does me in.
>
> If I return to Airventure, the only way I can fully experience it, is
> likely going to involve a scooter. It is the only way cover the miles,
> and still have anything left to keep going.
>
> So, do I qualify? How do we draw the line?
>
> In my opinion, it is not the presence of the scooters that is the problem.
> It is how they are driven. People need to be patient, and not use a
> vehicle as a way to get people to move out of the way. Some way to keep
> this in line is the solution.
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Ron Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> 7. Idiots In Golf Carts. There is simply no excuse for them being
> everywhere. You can't walk ANYWHERE without being forced to move
> aside for them.

Idiots in cars. This is especially a problem in the North 40 where
one of the entrances to the show is that gate at the Hilton Garden
Inn and they drive around that perimeter road/taxiway at high speed
with reckless abandon. I almost got collided with one taxiing the
Navion over there Sunday afternoon.

Last time I camped there (and too close to the road) it seemed to
progress unabated all night long.

Usually, we run into a few rude pilots/attendees. The only one
was the idiot Bonanza pilot parked pretty much abeam the P-51
wreckage scene who insisted he couldn't push his plane downhill
to the "burn line" before starting (we offered as many people
as he needed to help) as we weren't letting people fire up as
the crowds were still heavy oggling the cleanup. Oddly, a Baron
in the next row had no problem moving himself to the line.

[Ron Natalie]

Viperdoc wrote:
> Here's another one: long lines for food and water. It seemed like there were
> a lot fewer food vendors present this year (not including McDonalds), and
> that it was a 30+ minute wait to get anything.
>
>
>
They seem to have deep-sixed the competition to Zaugs. (DJ and
MacD's). Actually the number of sites seemed to be as much as
before. Forutnately, 12-12:30 is the worst time however but even
then it wasn't that bad.

[Ron Natalie]

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> In a previous article, "Viperdoc" > said:
>> What do Ford and Honda have to do with aviation, although they obviously
>> paid big bucks for their exhibits?
>
> Ford Trimotor? HondaJet?
>
Same as John Deere and Harley-Davidson. They are all major sponsors of
the EAA (even before the Honda Jet). Ford was also a *MAJOR* sponsor of
the Wright Flyer reenactment (lots of cross-link between that effort and
the EAA). Deere, Ford, and Honda all provide $$$ and resources to the
show.

[Ron Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:
\
> The showers in the North 40 are REAL shower stalls, with no curtains
> at all. Dunno where Paul saw shower curtains, but it wasn't in the
> North 40.

The scholler shower doesn't have interior walls, all the stalls are
separated only by curtains (can't remember if they actually shut or
not). The WM trailer behind the Hangar Cafe has real stalls and doors
and a slightly upscale sink sprayer. This year the kids who they
hired to clean did a fairly good job, except for the day midshow
that the boy quit. The girl did her best to clean it when it was
empty. My friend and a guy he recruited mopped the floor once.
The kid they had the next day actually went way beyond the call keeping
the place clean for the rest of the show.

[Ron Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> The worst thing about Oshkosh is that my wife spent $30,000 remodeling our
>> kitchen so I have no money for taking a week off work this year.
>
> $30K for a KITCHEN?
>
> Shoot, we remodeled the entire first floor lobby of the hotel for
> $12K. (Of course, we did all the work ourselves. Cheapest
> contractor-built quote: $50K)
>
Our Kitchen cost darned near $90K. Of course, you've seen it Jay.

[Ron Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:

> That said, real shower buildings would be a nice upgrade. Sun N Fun
> has 'em, and they're terrific.

The real problem is that the grounds have limitted water (wells)
and no Sewer. Every drop of water that runs through that shower goes
into a holding tank and is pumped out by large trucks throughout the
show (you probably saw them, large tanker tractor-trailers that say
Lakeland Cartage or something like that).

>
> I don't have a problem with the tram system, although the lines were
> designed back when the "depth" of the grounds were half of what they
> are today.

Actually, not. The trams for general transport are a relatively recent
thing. The lines have been reworked twice since I've been going.
The BUS service this year was a MAJOR improvement. The new contractor
was really trying hard.
>
> When we started attending OSH back in '83, the grounds started at Rwy
> 18/36, just like today, but ended at what is now the site of the four
> big exhibition hangars, Hangars A through D.
>
> That spot is now only about half way to the main entrance! The show
> has really grown in that quarter of a century...
> --
After next years show they break ground on two more buildings. It's
getting larger.

[Ron Natalie]

john smith wrote:

>
> But then they wouldn't be able to park airplanes there!
> Each of those airplanes represents $19/day.
> They would lose money, and as we know, it is all about money.

Parking for homebuilts and classics (1970 or older) is FREE!

The $19 /day is for CAMPING and cheaper than you can stay anywhere
else in town.

[Ron Natalie]

Morgans wrote:

>
> As a contractor, I agree that it would not take that much to provide some
> storm drains and french drains, and build a few permanent shower building
> with real hot and cold water and private dressing areas.

It would take a real water supply and septic system which the field does
not have in most locations.

[Ron Natalie]

Hilton wrote:
> 11. No kettle korn
>
>
Actually what is disappointing (and there ought to be a law in
the dairy state) is that there is hardly any cheese or other dairy
products on the field. Could find a cheese curd to save my life.

[Ron Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> "I'm not really into that NASCAR stuff."
>
> The NASCAR crowd (which is our code for the airshow attendees who
> leave a pile of empty beer cans and the ground covered with butts when
> they leave) is largely absent from OSH, at least until the weekend.

I call them the lawn chair crowd. They almost always show up toting
lawn chairs. Of late they haven't been too bad (since they did away
with the #*&@!$%$ Jet truck was dropped and most of the Mastubators of
Destruction have died). Most nicely stayed behind the lines although
a few clueless still couldn't figure out why nobody was sitting in
the large cleared off firelane and set up their chairs there.

I still have no freaking clue why people insist on touching propellers.
Of all things on the airplane to touch this has to be the worst yet
the unwashed masses feel compelled to stroke them as they go by.

[Ron Natalie]

Dan Luke wrote:
> 11. A spider the size of a stone crab that crawls into your one-man tent.
>
>
Spiders? We have been overrun by earwigs every year. Shook a dozen of
them out of our luggage. Went to put air in the tires one year and
found a pile of them inside the hubcap (how the hell did they get in there).

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Morgans wrote:
>
>>
>> As a contractor, I agree that it would not take that much to provide some
>> storm drains and french drains, and build a few permanent shower building
>> with real hot and cold water and private dressing areas.
>
> It would take a real water supply and septic system which the field does
> not have in most locations.

You are correct, there.

That is the biggest thing the city (and the county) needs to get behind;
sewer and water for the grounds.

Even then, if they put holding tanks in the ground for the gray water, at
twice the size as is used now, they could use low flow real shower heads,
and not use much more water than they use now.

Electricity for all of the sites at Camp Schuler (sp?) would be nice too,
but that is probably asking a bit too much! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Ken Finney]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>>> "I'm not really into that NASCAR stuff."
>>
>> The NASCAR crowd (which is our code for the airshow attendees who
>> leave a pile of empty beer cans and the ground covered with butts when
>> they leave) is largely absent from OSH, at least until the weekend.
>
> I call them the lawn chair crowd. They almost always show up toting
> lawn chairs. Of late they haven't been too bad (since they did away
> with the #*&@!$%$ Jet truck was dropped and most of the Mastubators of
> Destruction have died). Most nicely stayed behind the lines although
> a few clueless still couldn't figure out why nobody was sitting in
> the large cleared off firelane and set up their chairs there.
>
> I still have no freaking clue why people insist on touching propellers.
> Of all things on the airplane to touch this has to be the worst yet
> the unwashed masses feel compelled to stroke them as they go by.

Ron- I really appreciate what you add to the newsgroup, but I think that
comment was in bad taste. . I really didn't care for the jet truck, but the
rest of the Masters of Disaster show was the best airshow I ever saw. And
all three are gone now. But your comment will have some positive results.
After going to http://www.xteamairshows.com/ I'm going to be making a
contribution. I can't imagine he could have gotten life insurance.

[Jay Honeck]

> Our Kitchen cost darned near $90K. Of course, you've seen it Jay.

Yes, but you and Margy are the only people I've ever met that would
spend 10 AMUs on a pop dispenser...

Certifiable, for sure...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> The $19 /day is for CAMPING and cheaper than you can stay anywhere
> else in town.

While true, our admission this year (for the first time) topped $400
for the family. $409, to be exact.

That's not chicken feed, when you consider the accomodations...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> So, do I qualify? How do we draw the line?

Of course you do, Jim. You're physically handicapped, not lazy.
(Besides, we need SOMEONE to carry the beer, and some of those
scooters have baskets big enough for a 12-pack...)

Maybe EAA needs to make it so that those things are only rented to
folks with a valid medical reason? I'm sure some doctor would love
to make a buck writing out "scooter prescriptions"...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> Ah the comb-over Thought they had gone years ago.

Oh, no. It's not THAT bad, yet.

Mary would shoot me before letting me wear a comb-over, like her dad
used to...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans[_2_]]

>> Ah the comb-over Thought they had gone years ago.
>
> Oh, no. It's not THAT bad, yet.
>
> Mary would shoot me before letting me wear a comb-over, like her dad
> used to...

I have vowed to shave my head smooth, if it ever comes to the point that a
comb over is the only option. (humm, how close am I coming? <g> )

That is a scary thought, if you have ever seen how many bumps *my* head has
on it!
--
Jim in NC

[Ron Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>> Our Kitchen cost darned near $90K. Of course, you've seen it Jay.
>
> Yes, but you and Margy are the only people I've ever met that would
> spend 10 AMUs on a pop dispenser...
>
It wasn't that expensive (more like 2 amu's) but the coffee machine
and the ez-bake oven ran the price up a bit.

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Ron Natalie" wrote:

>>
> Spiders? We have been overrun by earwigs every year.

Next year, I'll send Godzilla the Spider over to your tent.

You just better hope you have enough earwigs to fill him up.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Morgans" wrote:

> I have vowed to shave my head smooth, if it ever comes to the point that a
> comb over is the only option. (humm, how close am I coming? <g> )
>
> That is a scary thought, if you have ever seen how many bumps *my* head has
> on it!

I don't EVEN want to know about mine!

When it gets to combover-thin, it gets cut short, not shaved.

--
Dan
T-182T at BFM

[Morgans[_2_]]

>> That is a scary thought, if you have ever seen how many bumps *my* head
>> has on it!
>
> I don't EVEN want to know about mine!

My mom jokes and says my sister dropped me on my head _a lot_, since she was
not quite 3 years older than me, and liked to hold (and drop) the baby.

'Splains a lot, doesn't it? <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Montblack]

("Paul Dow (Remove CAPS in address)" wrote)
> Also, sorry I couldn't make it to your party. My solemn duties as a
> chapter officer required me to go to the Ford tent that night and schmooze
> with Jack Rausch, Edsel Ford II, and Bobby Unser. Well, actually I never
> got closer than 25 feet from any of them.


I got to talk with Jack Roush for a while during the Beach Boys concert. He
gave me his card - wanting me to send him info about the (3) Tri-Motors
Golden Wings Museum brought to OSH this year.

During the concert I was allowing folks to go up into "The Ford", one or two
at a time. We were chatting and I had no idea who he was, until I saw his
card. Nicest guy in the world, IMHO.


Paul-Mont

[Margy Natalie]

Viperdoc wrote:
> Here's another one: long lines for food and water. It seemed like there were
> a lot fewer food vendors present this year (not including McDonalds), and
> that it was a 30+ minute wait to get anything.
>
>
>
I asked all the Wisconsin ANG folks I could find if they knew you and
they had NO idea who I was talking about. :-(.

Margy

[Margy Natalie]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>>If the continued popularity of satellite fields such as Appleton
>>continue to attract visitors who want to be close enough to Oshkosh
>>yet have the ability to come and go on their own schedules.
>
>
> This is a phenomenon that I truly don't understand. I have met many
> people who have flown their aircraft all the way across the country,
> only to stop 20 miles short of the main event and land off-field.
>
> Dunno if it's fear of the Fisk Approach, or what, but take it from me,
> a guy who spent his first 16 OSH fly-ins staying off-field -- there is
> simply NO comparison between the two experiences.
>
> When you're staying at Wittman Field, you are immersed in the
> experience, as opposed to watching it. In many ways, if you haven't
> stayed on the field, with your airplane, you haven't been to
> AirVenture.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>
Some folks don't want their aircraft near the unwashed masses.

Margy (who one year spent almost every airshow protecting her trim tabs)

[Margy Natalie]

Ron Natalie wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
>>> Our Kitchen cost darned near $90K. Of course, you've seen it Jay.
>>
>>
>> Yes, but you and Margy are the only people I've ever met that would
>> spend 10 AMUs on a pop dispenser...
>>
> It wasn't that expensive (more like 2 amu's) but the coffee machine
> and the ez-bake oven ran the price up a bit.
It cost WHAT!?!?!?!

Margy

[RST Engineering]

If you didn't take your shirt off in public, Margy, you wouldn't have to
worry about protecting your trim tabs.

};-)

Jim


>
> Margy (who one year spent almost every airshow protecting her trim tabs)

[Jay Honeck]

> It cost WHAT!?!?!?!
>
> Margy

Uh-oh, Ron. I've heard that tone before...and it's never pretty...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Montblack]

("RST Engineering" wrote)
> If you didn't take your shirt off in public, Margy, you wouldn't have to
> worry about protecting your trim tabs.


So many replies come to mind...

Much --- self --- discipline --- needed --- !!

(That's code for self preservation mode <on>)

I met the head of "Vintage" today at my local airport. He was in his Aeronca
Sedan(?). Beautiful 145hp, 4 place, all metal wings, airplane! We tucked his
plane next to, and under, the Stinson (high wing) Tri-Motor for the night.

He said, "Yes, I know Margy!"


Paul-Mont

[Viperdoc]

I would hope they knew me by my real name, not Viperdoc. If not, they can
come in and line up for another set of rectal exams.

[Jay Honeck]

> I would hope they knew me by my real name, not Viperdoc. If not, they can
> come in and line up for another set of rectal exams.

No wonder they didn't remember your face!

;-O
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
>> I would hope they knew me by my real name, not Viperdoc. If not, they can
>> come in and line up for another set of rectal exams.
>
> No wonder they didn't remember your face!

Go to your room, Jay. Any of them! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Margy Natalie]

RST Engineering wrote:
> If you didn't take your shirt off in public, Margy, you wouldn't have to
> worry about protecting your trim tabs.
>
> };-)
>
> Jim
>
>
>
>>Margy (who one year spent almost every airshow protecting her trim tabs)
>
>
>
Hey, I was walking by some booth at OSH and some woman said "Hey, I know
you, you took your shirt off at the forum", boy, did I get some looks.

Margy

[Jay Honeck]

> >>Margy (who one year spent almost every airshow protecting her trim tabs)

Hmmm. Where does one go with such a statement? How does one
proceed?

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[JSBOUGHER]

On Jul 31, 9:16 pm, john smith > wrote:
> > "john smith" > wrote
> > > Homeland Security is having more say in who and where groups can play on
> > > airports.
> > "Morgans" > wrote:
> > Unless you know that what you are saying applies directly to Oshkosh, I have
> > to say that you don't know what you are talking about, in this case.
> > There are LARGE national conventions taking place at Oshkosh.
> > All there needs to be is a fence in-between where the people are staying and
> > having the convention, and where the runway access is, and the security
> > issue is moot.
>
> That is exactly my point, Jim.
> Fences are going up at every airport at each airport's expense.
> Post 9/11 our airport manage was told they had to put up a fence and
> control all access to the airport movement areas.
> Time was anyone could walk out the door of the FBO and stroll around
> looking at airplanes. Not anymore.

Flew out of Canton Akron Friday (CAK - Ohio). CAK has quite a bit of
regional airline traffic. My plane had been tied down for a week, and
I showed up at 11:15 pm to head home. FBO was closed. Drove to the
gate (could see my plane) and called the security number listed. Got
the Sheriff. He said he have someone call me. About 10 minutes
later, a Deputy called me. He didn't know gate code or procedure to
open it. I then called airport operations number I found on a
different sign attached to the fence. I explained my situation. They
said they'd send someone over. After 15 minutes of waiting, I called
back. They said they'd send someone over soon. After about another
20 minutes, an operation guy shows up with a Sheriff in tow. They
open gate, take my license number and escort me to my plane to make
sure key works. They sat on tarmac while I pre-flighted the plane,
started up and taxi'd out. I arrived at FBO at 11:15 and left the
ground at 12:45 due to delay. Hard to fault them, but life in the
post-9/11 world can really be a PITA sometimes.

Jeff