4130 frame?

[Steve Thomas]

Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG welder?

What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?

Thanks,

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com

[[email protected]]

On Sat, 23 Aug 2003 01:44:47 GMT, "Steve Thomas"
> wrote:

:Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG welder?

Most aircraft welding is done TIG

:
:What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?

Dillsberg Aero. They don't have a website, but you'll get their
address if you google them.

[Ernest Christley]

Steve Thomas wrote:
> Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG welder?
>
> What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?
>
> Thanks,
>

I use a Lincoln Weldpak 100 to tack everything together, but the MIG has
a tendency to either not penetrate or blow holes. Very hard to
balance on the line. I just tried TIG, after putting nearly the whole
frame together with oxy/acetylene. I'll stick with the oxy/acetylene,
because the TIG gave me the same results that I got with MIG. Either
not penetrating or blowing holes.

--
----Because I can----
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
------------------------

[Jim]

MIG is not normally recomended for airframe construction but many people do
it. I have TIG and O&A welded and prefer TIG but hard to get into clusters
with the TIG torch. See news:sci.engr.joining.welding for lots of good
(factual) helpfull information.

Jim


"Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG
welder?
>
> What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Have a good one!
>
> Steve
> www.americanspiritppc.com
>
>

[James Lloyd]

Dillsburg in Pa. is the best source that I know of for steel and al..You
can use mig with a lot of practice but you might like o/act.a lot
better.Go to tinman . com for further advise.

[Flightdeck]

A few years back, a manufacturer of 4130 tube frames for a popular high-wing
kit used TIG because of production and training considerations over
oxy/acetylene. They had to call back fuselages because of cracking in the
4130. They modified their approach and used oxy/acetylene to pre-heat and
post-heat the weld. They ended up with nice welds, but why not just train
enough welders to the a real good job with oxy/acetylene?

4130 is very touchy about cracking from too little pre-heat and from too
fast cooling of the weld AND the metal around the joint. It should be
welded in absolutely calm air and the torch flame must be adjusted correctly
to avoid a brittle failure from random hydrogen in the air.

Some of the race car guys who were using 4130 found that they could get very
strong joints (with less high-heat problems)by using a brazing technique
rather than true welding. In fact, the technique seemed to provide better
joints due to difficult clusters and different levels of expertise. There
are some very good brazing alloys out there now with very high PSI ratings.
As with a good 4130 "weld" the joints must be a very good fit (NO gap
filling with the rod) and clean, clean, clean. You can shape various
grinding wheels, or you can use something like the "joint jigger" with high
quality hole saws to form the various "fish mouth" shapes. The best jigs
permit adjustment of the vise angle and the drill angle. The best quality
of the hole saws will do an entire frame before sharpening or replacement is
required.

Finding a full selection of tubing wall/id/od combinations is difficult
today. We ran into a source problem a couple of years ago when we needed to
find some sections that would telescope over an existing tube during some
airframe repair. This was a case where replacing the entire length of the
structural member would have required a re-cover of the fuselage. If you
are working on a definate project and have too much trouble finding the size
you need from one of the three aircraft suppliers that still stock a decent
selection of 4130 tube, send me an email and I will pass along a couple of
sources that don't generally advertise.

J

"Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG
welder?
>
> What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Have a good one!
>
> Steve
> www.americanspiritppc.com
>
>

[Sandy]

Where can you get these "high quality" hole saws? Even with cutting fluid
and cool air from a compressor I'm luckey to get 20 or so cuts from your
standard Milwakee hole saw.


">You can shape various
> grinding wheels, or you can use something like the "joint jigger" with
high
> quality hole saws to form the various "fish mouth" shapes. The best jigs
> permit adjustment of the vise angle and the drill angle. The best quality
> of the hole saws will do an entire frame before sharpening or replacement
is
> required.
>
>

[Richard Lamb]

Find a copy of Winmiter.zip.
THis little program allows you to print out cutting templates
on your computer. Then just grind to shape.

I use a modified 4" angle grinder to cut the tubes.

It's spooky how accurate this works.

Richard


Sandy wrote:
>
> Where can you get these "high quality" hole saws? Even with cutting fluid
> and cool air from a compressor I'm luckey to get 20 or so cuts from your
> standard Milwakee hole saw.
>
> ">You can shape various
> > grinding wheels, or you can use something like the "joint jigger" with
> high
> > quality hole saws to form the various "fish mouth" shapes. The best jigs
> > permit adjustment of the vise angle and the drill angle. The best quality
> > of the hole saws will do an entire frame before sharpening or replacement
> is
> > required.
> >
> >

[Barnyard BOb --]

Richard Lamb > wrote:

>Find a copy of Winmiter.zip.
>THis little program allows you to print out cutting templates
>on your computer. Then just grind to shape.
>
>I use a modified 4" angle grinder to cut the tubes.
>
>It's spooky how accurate this works.
>
>Richard
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Sheesh!
Whatz really spooky is --
how you leave a poor soul dangling with...

FIND A COPY OF WINMITER.ZIP


Barnyard BOb to the rescue....
[I think]

ftp://ftp.ihpva.org/pub/software/winmiter/
ftp://ftp.ihpva.org/pub/software/index.html

[Steve Thomas]

J,

Thanks for that helpful insight. I will keep it all in mind. Sice I do not
have a TIG machine or experience using one, and I do not have much
experience using a torch to weld with, would it be kosher to tack the pieces
together with a MIG and then have a professional welder finish the process
by using a torch? The local pro that I have used in the past for various
projects gave me the impression that he would rather weld with his a/o torch
than his TIG machine.

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"Flightdeck" > wrote in message
ink.net...
> A few years back, a manufacturer of 4130 tube frames for a popular
high-wing
> kit used TIG because of production and training considerations over
> oxy/acetylene. They had to call back fuselages because of cracking in the
> 4130. They modified their approach and used oxy/acetylene to pre-heat and
> post-heat the weld. They ended up with nice welds, but why not just train
> enough welders to the a real good job with oxy/acetylene?
>
> 4130 is very touchy about cracking from too little pre-heat and from too
> fast cooling of the weld AND the metal around the joint. It should be
> welded in absolutely calm air and the torch flame must be adjusted
correctly
> to avoid a brittle failure from random hydrogen in the air.
>
> Some of the race car guys who were using 4130 found that they could get
very
> strong joints (with less high-heat problems)by using a brazing technique
> rather than true welding. In fact, the technique seemed to provide better
> joints due to difficult clusters and different levels of expertise. There
> are some very good brazing alloys out there now with very high PSI
ratings.
> As with a good 4130 "weld" the joints must be a very good fit (NO gap
> filling with the rod) and clean, clean, clean. You can shape various
> grinding wheels, or you can use something like the "joint jigger" with
high
> quality hole saws to form the various "fish mouth" shapes. The best jigs
> permit adjustment of the vise angle and the drill angle. The best quality
> of the hole saws will do an entire frame before sharpening or replacement
is
> required.
>
> Finding a full selection of tubing wall/id/od combinations is difficult
> today. We ran into a source problem a couple of years ago when we needed
to
> find some sections that would telescope over an existing tube during some
> airframe repair. This was a case where replacing the entire length of the
> structural member would have required a re-cover of the fuselage. If you
> are working on a definate project and have too much trouble finding the
size
> you need from one of the three aircraft suppliers that still stock a
decent
> selection of 4130 tube, send me an email and I will pass along a couple of
> sources that don't generally advertise.
>
> J
>
> "Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG
> welder?
> >
> > What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Have a good one!
> >
> > Steve
> > www.americanspiritppc.com
> >
> >
>
>

[Richard Lamb]

Steve Thomas wrote:
>
> J,
>
> Thanks for that helpful insight. I will keep it all in mind. Sice I do not
> have a TIG machine or experience using one, and I do not have much
> experience using a torch to weld with, would it be kosher to tack the pieces
> together with a MIG and then have a professional welder finish the process
> by using a torch? The local pro that I have used in the past for various
> projects gave me the impression that he would rather weld with his a/o torch
> than his TIG machine.
>
> --
> Have a good one!
>
> Steve

A/O rig will cost as much as a good MIG set, but is a better choice
for welding thin wall 4130.

On the other hand, it's a lot easier to tack with the MIG since it
only takes one hand.

But if you are building a steel tube airframe, you are going to need
a good torch to weld on a thousand little tabs and such.

Either technique will require practice.

Richard

PS: Thank Barnyard for the link to WinMitre.
Very handy little tool there.

[spektr]

Richard.

The basic problem with Mig welders is the inability of the operators to set
them up.
As delivered, most home style 110 mig boxes are set up to use .035 wire.
The idea is to have a box for mild steel, cars trailers shovels etc......
Smaller wire
sizes are available and needed for thin wall applications. Use .023 instead
of .035.
Excuse me slaughtering exactly correct terms here, but the arc intensity is
a
function of the area of the wire. So heat control in BTU/Min is easier with
smaller diameters.
That means that the current carrying capacity of the smaller wire is 66% of
the .035 and
that go's a very long way towards making the job work.

For good fusion, the larger wire needs a btu/sec heat rate that in many
cases exceeds
the base metals "pour point" or the point where id is completely liquid and
flows away
from the weld. Using smaller wire gets the heat rate more in line with the
tubes fusion heat rate.

Scott Correa

"Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
...
> A/O rig will cost as much as a good MIG set, but is a better choice
> for welding thin wall 4130.
>
> On the other hand, it's a lot easier to tack with the MIG since it
> only takes one hand.
>
> But if you are building a steel tube airframe, you are going to need
> a good torch to weld on a thousand little tabs and such.
>
> Either technique will require practice.
>
> Richard
>
> PS: Thank Barnyard for the link to WinMitre.
> Very handy little tool there.

[Richard Lamb]

spektr wrote:
>
> Richard.
>
> The basic problem with Mig welders is the inability of the operators to set
> them up.
> As delivered, most home style 110 mig boxes are set up to use .035 wire.
> The idea is to have a box for mild steel, cars trailers shovels etc......
> Smaller wire
> sizes are available and needed for thin wall applications. Use .023 instead
> of .035.
> Excuse me slaughtering exactly correct terms here, but the arc intensity is
> a
> function of the area of the wire. So heat control in BTU/Min is easier with
> smaller diameters.
> That means that the current carrying capacity of the smaller wire is 66% of
> the .035 and
> that go's a very long way towards making the job work.
>
> For good fusion, the larger wire needs a btu/sec heat rate that in many
> cases exceeds
> the base metals "pour point" or the point where id is completely liquid and
> flows away
> from the weld. Using smaller wire gets the heat rate more in line with the
> tubes fusion heat rate.
>
> Scott Correa
>

Yep.
And there in lies the rub, at least according to the old timers.
That tiny intensly heated bead can lock in strong stresses.
Which suggests post weldeding stress relief (old argument).

With a neutral flame...

I bought a Hobart 135 to build my shop.
Later sold it for more than I paid for it (because it had a
new roll of wire on it at the time :) and bought my O/A rig
for working on the Tailwind.

Each has merits.
Could probably justify both if you have the pockets.

But I prefer the torch for welding thin wall stuff.

Richard

[Steve Thomas]

Richard,

Do you know of a good source for the .023 wire for 4130? Do you use the
normal 75/25 mix for the shielding gas?

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"spektr" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Richard.
>
> The basic problem with Mig welders is the inability of the operators to
set
> them up.
> As delivered, most home style 110 mig boxes are set up to use .035 wire.
> The idea is to have a box for mild steel, cars trailers shovels etc......
> Smaller wire
> sizes are available and needed for thin wall applications. Use .023
instead
> of .035.
> Excuse me slaughtering exactly correct terms here, but the arc intensity
is
> a
> function of the area of the wire. So heat control in BTU/Min is easier
with
> smaller diameters.
> That means that the current carrying capacity of the smaller wire is 66%
of
> the .035 and
> that go's a very long way towards making the job work.
>
> For good fusion, the larger wire needs a btu/sec heat rate that in many
> cases exceeds
> the base metals "pour point" or the point where id is completely liquid
and
> flows away
> from the weld. Using smaller wire gets the heat rate more in line with
the
> tubes fusion heat rate.
>
> Scott Correa
>
> "Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
> ...
> > A/O rig will cost as much as a good MIG set, but is a better choice
> > for welding thin wall 4130.
> >
> > On the other hand, it's a lot easier to tack with the MIG since it
> > only takes one hand.
> >
> > But if you are building a steel tube airframe, you are going to need
> > a good torch to weld on a thousand little tabs and such.
> >
> > Either technique will require practice.
> >
> > Richard
> >
> > PS: Thank Barnyard for the link to WinMitre.
> > Very handy little tool there.
>
>

[spektr]

Hi Steve.

Go to any decent welding supplier.
They will have any wire you need as
well as the tips for the mig gun. They
need to be changed to the correct size.
Most guns use standard TWECO
parts. Make sure you blow out the liner
when you change wire and it might be a
good time to consider a lube pad between
the rollers and liner. Makes for much
smoother feeding of the filler wire.

Scott


"Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Richard,
>
> Do you know of a good source for the .023 wire for 4130? Do you use the
> normal 75/25 mix for the shielding gas?
>
> --
> Have a good one!
>
> Steve
> www.americanspiritppc.com
> "spektr" > wrote in message
> ...
> >
> >
> > Richard.
> >
> > The basic problem with Mig welders is the inability of the operators to
> set
> > them up.
> > As delivered, most home style 110 mig boxes are set up to use .035 wire.
> > The idea is to have a box for mild steel, cars trailers shovels
etc......
> > Smaller wire
> > sizes are available and needed for thin wall applications. Use .023
> instead
> > of .035.
> > Excuse me slaughtering exactly correct terms here, but the arc intensity
> is
> > a
> > function of the area of the wire. So heat control in BTU/Min is easier
> with
> > smaller diameters.
> > That means that the current carrying capacity of the smaller wire is 66%
> of
> > the .035 and
> > that go's a very long way towards making the job work.
> >
> > For good fusion, the larger wire needs a btu/sec heat rate that in many
> > cases exceeds
> > the base metals "pour point" or the point where id is completely liquid
> and
> > flows away
> > from the weld. Using smaller wire gets the heat rate more in line with
> the
> > tubes fusion heat rate.
> >
> > Scott Correa
> >
> > "Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > A/O rig will cost as much as a good MIG set, but is a better choice
> > > for welding thin wall 4130.
> > >
> > > On the other hand, it's a lot easier to tack with the MIG since it
> > > only takes one hand.
> > >
> > > But if you are building a steel tube airframe, you are going to need
> > > a good torch to weld on a thousand little tabs and such.
> > >
> > > Either technique will require practice.
> > >
> > > Richard
> > >
> > > PS: Thank Barnyard for the link to WinMitre.
> > > Very handy little tool there.
> >
> >
>
>

[Steve Thomas]

Scott,

Great tips! Thanks. These are the little things that make jobs go smoother
and make them more enjoyable. :)

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"spektr" > wrote in message
...
> Hi Steve.
>
> Go to any decent welding supplier.
> They will have any wire you need as
> well as the tips for the mig gun. They
> need to be changed to the correct size.
> Most guns use standard TWECO
> parts. Make sure you blow out the liner
> when you change wire and it might be a
> good time to consider a lube pad between
> the rollers and liner. Makes for much
> smoother feeding of the filler wire.
>
> Scott
>
>
> "Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > Richard,
> >
> > Do you know of a good source for the .023 wire for 4130? Do you use the
> > normal 75/25 mix for the shielding gas?
> >
> > --
> > Have a good one!
> >
> > Steve
> > www.americanspiritppc.com
> > "spektr" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > >
> > >
> > > Richard.
> > >
> > > The basic problem with Mig welders is the inability of the operators
to
> > set
> > > them up.
> > > As delivered, most home style 110 mig boxes are set up to use .035
wire.
> > > The idea is to have a box for mild steel, cars trailers shovels
> etc......
> > > Smaller wire
> > > sizes are available and needed for thin wall applications. Use .023
> > instead
> > > of .035.
> > > Excuse me slaughtering exactly correct terms here, but the arc
intensity
> > is
> > > a
> > > function of the area of the wire. So heat control in BTU/Min is easier
> > with
> > > smaller diameters.
> > > That means that the current carrying capacity of the smaller wire is
66%
> > of
> > > the .035 and
> > > that go's a very long way towards making the job work.
> > >
> > > For good fusion, the larger wire needs a btu/sec heat rate that in
many
> > > cases exceeds
> > > the base metals "pour point" or the point where id is completely
liquid
> > and
> > > flows away
> > > from the weld. Using smaller wire gets the heat rate more in line
with
> > the
> > > tubes fusion heat rate.
> > >
> > > Scott Correa
> > >
> > > "Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > A/O rig will cost as much as a good MIG set, but is a better choice
> > > > for welding thin wall 4130.
> > > >
> > > > On the other hand, it's a lot easier to tack with the MIG since it
> > > > only takes one hand.
> > > >
> > > > But if you are building a steel tube airframe, you are going to need
> > > > a good torch to weld on a thousand little tabs and such.
> > > >
> > > > Either technique will require practice.
> > > >
> > > > Richard
> > > >
> > > > PS: Thank Barnyard for the link to WinMitre.
> > > > Very handy little tool there.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[log]

Yes, Maule does it every day.


"Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG
welder?
>
> What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --
> Have a good one!
>
> Steve
> www.americanspiritppc.com
>
>

[Steve Thomas]

I am just about ready to take the plunge and order in the materials
necessary to duplicate my current airframe out of 4130. Thanks to all of you
guys for the tips and sources. I have one more question. What other metals
are compatable with 4130 when welding? My problem is in locating any angle
in 4130. So far all I have found is seamless tubing and flat stock. My frame
currently uses some angle 1"x1" angle. I would like to stay with using angle
in these locations if possible. So, now this may sound dumb, but can you
weld mild steel or another alloy to 4130 tubing that I can get in angle? Or
better yet, do you know of a source for 4130 angle?

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"log" > wrote in message
...
> Yes, Maule does it every day.
>
>
> "Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG
> welder?
> >
> > What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --
> > Have a good one!
> >
> > Steve
> > www.americanspiritppc.com
> >
> >
>
>

[spektr]

Steve.

If you want to use 4130 angls, they are available from lots of
different places. If you don't like the prices, use plates and
weld them up yourself. You can have plate brake bent and
slice out what you need. Lots of ways to get it done,
don't get locked into mixing stuff like 1018 to 4130 because you
are having a tough time thinking it out. Think it out CLEARLY.
Go find yourself an EAA chapter and get a hold of one of
their Tech Counsellors. They are really nice to work with
and usually respond quite favorably to steak and beer.
Proper planning of the task ensures trouble free completion.

Scott Correa


"Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
nk.net...
> I am just about ready to take the plunge and order in the materials
> necessary to duplicate my current airframe out of 4130. Thanks to all of
you
> guys for the tips and sources. I have one more question. What other metals
> are compatable with 4130 when welding? My problem is in locating any angle
> in 4130. So far all I have found is seamless tubing and flat stock. My
frame
> currently uses some angle 1"x1" angle. I would like to stay with using
angle
> in these locations if possible. So, now this may sound dumb, but can you
> weld mild steel or another alloy to 4130 tubing that I can get in angle?
Or
> better yet, do you know of a source for 4130 angle?
>
> --
> Have a good one!
>
> Steve
> www.americanspiritppc.com
> "log" > wrote in message
> ...
> > Yes, Maule does it every day.
> >
> >
> > "Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
> > nk.net...
> > > Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG
> > welder?
> > >
> > > What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > --
> > > Have a good one!
> > >
> > > Steve
> > > www.americanspiritppc.com
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[clare @ snyder.on .ca]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 01:02:50 GMT, "Steve Thomas"
> wrote:

>I am just about ready to take the plunge and order in the materials
>necessary to duplicate my current airframe out of 4130. Thanks to all of you
>guys for the tips and sources. I have one more question. What other metals
>are compatable with 4130 when welding? My problem is in locating any angle
>in 4130. So far all I have found is seamless tubing and flat stock. My frame
>currently uses some angle 1"x1" angle. I would like to stay with using angle
>in these locations if possible. So, now this may sound dumb, but can you
>weld mild steel or another alloy to 4130 tubing that I can get in angle? Or
>better yet, do you know of a source for 4130 angle?

You can weld 4130 to mild steel. You can weld many other weldable
alloys to 4130.

[Steve Thomas]

How about sharing the name or contact info for some of those places that
have 4130 angle? What about welded seam tubing for non critical areas, is
there a source for it that you know of also? Thanks a million!

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"spektr" > wrote in message
...
> Steve.
>
> If you want to use 4130 angls, they are available from lots of
> different places. If you don't like the prices, use plates and
> weld them up yourself. You can have plate brake bent and
> slice out what you need. Lots of ways to get it done,
> don't get locked into mixing stuff like 1018 to 4130 because you
> are having a tough time thinking it out. Think it out CLEARLY.
> Go find yourself an EAA chapter and get a hold of one of
> their Tech Counsellors. They are really nice to work with
> and usually respond quite favorably to steak and beer.
> Proper planning of the task ensures trouble free completion.
>
> Scott Correa
>
>
> "Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
> nk.net...
> > I am just about ready to take the plunge and order in the materials
> > necessary to duplicate my current airframe out of 4130. Thanks to all of
> you
> > guys for the tips and sources. I have one more question. What other
metals
> > are compatable with 4130 when welding? My problem is in locating any
angle
> > in 4130. So far all I have found is seamless tubing and flat stock. My
> frame
> > currently uses some angle 1"x1" angle. I would like to stay with using
> angle
> > in these locations if possible. So, now this may sound dumb, but can you
> > weld mild steel or another alloy to 4130 tubing that I can get in angle?
> Or
> > better yet, do you know of a source for 4130 angle?
> >
> > --
> > Have a good one!
> >
> > Steve
> > www.americanspiritppc.com
> > "log" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > Yes, Maule does it every day.
> > >
> > >
> > > "Steve Thomas" > wrote in message
> > > nk.net...
> > > > Has anyone on this list ever welded a thinwall 4130 frame with a MIG
> > > welder?
> > > >
> > > > What is a good source of 4130 seamless and welded seam tubing?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Have a good one!
> > > >
> > > > Steve
> > > > www.americanspiritppc.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

[Steve Thomas]

They are short pieces and I guess that I could do that. I may even be able
to substitute a square tube in place of them, but I would prefer to have
regular angle steel. Thanks!

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"Del Rawlins" > wrote in message
...
> On 25 Aug 2003 05:02 PM, Steve Thomas posted the following:
> > I am just about ready to take the plunge and order in the materials
> > necessary to duplicate my current airframe out of 4130. Thanks to all
> > of you guys for the tips and sources. I have one more question. What
> > other metals are compatable with 4130 when welding? My problem is in
> > locating any angle in 4130. So far all I have found is seamless tubing
> > and flat stock. My frame currently uses some angle 1"x1" angle. I
> > would like to stay with using angle in these locations if possible. So,
> > now this may sound dumb, but can you weld mild steel or another alloy
> > to 4130 tubing that I can get in angle? Or better yet, do you know of
> > a source for 4130 angle?
>
> What is the required thickness and length of the 4130 angle? You may be
> able to bend (or have it bent) in a brake.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------
> Del Rawlins-
> Remove _kills_spammers_ to reply via email.
> Unofficial Bearhawk FAQ website:
> http://www.rawlinsbrothers.org/bhfaq/

[Corky Scott]

On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:57:36 GMT, "Steve Thomas"
> wrote:

>J,
>
>Thanks for that helpful insight. I will keep it all in mind. Sice I do not
>have a TIG machine or experience using one, and I do not have much
>experience using a torch to weld with, would it be kosher to tack the pieces
>together with a MIG and then have a professional welder finish the process
>by using a torch? The local pro that I have used in the past for various
>projects gave me the impression that he would rather weld with his a/o torch
>than his TIG machine.

Steve, you don't need a joint jigger to cut and fit tubes for the
fuselage, and gas welding is something you can learn to do, and do
well. You'll be glad you learned as you can use the knowledge for
many projects.

I tried using the joint jigger and ended up sticking it in a corner
where it's sat for years now. Why? Because it was a pain in the ass
to use and you literally don't need a precision fit when you are
welding. Remember, you aren't gluing the joints, you are melting the
base metal and adding more with a filler rod. You bridge a LOT this
way.

In addition, the welded tube fuselage is an inherently strong
fuselage. Even if you totally botch the welding, because you weld all
the way around the tube, it probably won't matter in your lifetime.

All the tubes are interlocked and welded in this manner. There's just
no where for any slippage to occur, everything is triangulated.

Think about it, aluminum tube fuselages aren't welded, they're fitted
together and held in place with riveted gusset plates. Steel tube
fuselages are just about the strongest fuselage there is.

You can do it yourself, and I think you'll agree that a simple
grinding wheel with a round shaped rough wheel is all you need to fit
the tubes.

Corky Scott

PS, you can dress the grinding wheel to the shape you need yourself
too.

[Steve Thomas]

Corky,

I made all of my joints like you mentioned for my mild steel frame and it
worked great. I can het them pretty darn close fitting just using a hole saw
on a drill press and then finishing them off with a 4" grinder. Thanks for
the encouragement. :)

--
Have a good one!

Steve
www.americanspiritppc.com
"Corky Scott" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 24 Aug 2003 14:57:36 GMT, "Steve Thomas"
> > wrote:
>
> >J,
> >
> >Thanks for that helpful insight. I will keep it all in mind. Sice I do
not
> >have a TIG machine or experience using one, and I do not have much
> >experience using a torch to weld with, would it be kosher to tack the
pieces
> >together with a MIG and then have a professional welder finish the
process
> >by using a torch? The local pro that I have used in the past for various
> >projects gave me the impression that he would rather weld with his a/o
torch
> >than his TIG machine.
>
> Steve, you don't need a joint jigger to cut and fit tubes for the
> fuselage, and gas welding is something you can learn to do, and do
> well. You'll be glad you learned as you can use the knowledge for
> many projects.
>
> I tried using the joint jigger and ended up sticking it in a corner
> where it's sat for years now. Why? Because it was a pain in the ass
> to use and you literally don't need a precision fit when you are
> welding. Remember, you aren't gluing the joints, you are melting the
> base metal and adding more with a filler rod. You bridge a LOT this
> way.
>
> In addition, the welded tube fuselage is an inherently strong
> fuselage. Even if you totally botch the welding, because you weld all
> the way around the tube, it probably won't matter in your lifetime.
>
> All the tubes are interlocked and welded in this manner. There's just
> no where for any slippage to occur, everything is triangulated.
>
> Think about it, aluminum tube fuselages aren't welded, they're fitted
> together and held in place with riveted gusset plates. Steel tube
> fuselages are just about the strongest fuselage there is.
>
> You can do it yourself, and I think you'll agree that a simple
> grinding wheel with a round shaped rough wheel is all you need to fit
> the tubes.
>
> Corky Scott
>
> PS, you can dress the grinding wheel to the shape you need yourself
> too.