Raise your useful load without an STC...

[Hilton]

1. Go on a diet
2. Define a gallon of 100LL as weighing 5.82 lbs instead of the usual 6
lbs - Mooney did it.

Is this legal/valid? If so, why don't all manufacturers do it?

Hilton

[Tom L.]

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 07:34:53 GMT, "Hilton" > wrote:

>1. Go on a diet
>2. Define a gallon of 100LL as weighing 5.82 lbs instead of the usual 6
>lbs - Mooney did it.
>
>Is this legal/valid? If so, why don't all manufacturers do it?
>
>Hilton
>
>
It's valid, or at least more accurate that the traditional 6 lbs/gal.

Fuel specific density probably varies between manufacturers, but is
usually specified as 0.7 or 0.71, which is about 5.84 lbs/gal.

You need to carry a lot of fuel for this difference to amount to
anything useful.
I'll keep using the more conservative "6", ... and start dieting

- Tom

[Matt Whiting]

Hilton wrote:
> 1. Go on a diet
> 2. Define a gallon of 100LL as weighing 5.82 lbs instead of the usual 6
> lbs - Mooney did it.
>
> Is this legal/valid? If so, why don't all manufacturers do it?

Yes, diets are completely legal and valid and most of us should do so.

Mooney didn't "define" a gallon of 100LL to weight 5.82 lbs, that is
what it DOES weigh. Someone else "defined" it as 6 lbs many moons ago
to simplify calculations. If Mooney is doing as you say (I didn't take
time to verify), then they are just being more precisely correct, if
more impractical for their pilots.


Matt

[John Theune]

Matt Whiting wrote:
> Hilton wrote:
>> 1. Go on a diet
>> 2. Define a gallon of 100LL as weighing 5.82 lbs instead of the usual
>> 6 lbs - Mooney did it.
>>
>> Is this legal/valid? If so, why don't all manufacturers do it?
>
> Yes, diets are completely legal and valid and most of us should do so.
>
> Mooney didn't "define" a gallon of 100LL to weight 5.82 lbs, that is
> what it DOES weigh. Someone else "defined" it as 6 lbs many moons ago
> to simplify calculations. If Mooney is doing as you say (I didn't take
> time to verify), then they are just being more precisely correct, if
> more impractical for their pilots.
>
>
> Matt
For 50 gallons of fuel the difference is 9 pounds. Not much of a
difference as most peoples weight can change 4 pounds in a day based on
time of day and water in/out

[Hilton]

Matt,

According to Wikipedia: "Avgas has a density of 6.02 lb/US gallon at 15 °C".
Not sure how 'correct' this is.

Hilton


"Matt Whiting" > wrote in message
...
> Hilton wrote:
>> 1. Go on a diet
>> 2. Define a gallon of 100LL as weighing 5.82 lbs instead of the usual 6
>> lbs - Mooney did it.
>>
>> Is this legal/valid? If so, why don't all manufacturers do it?
>
> Yes, diets are completely legal and valid and most of us should do so.
>
> Mooney didn't "define" a gallon of 100LL to weight 5.82 lbs, that is what
> it DOES weigh. Someone else "defined" it as 6 lbs many moons ago to
> simplify calculations. If Mooney is doing as you say (I didn't take time
> to verify), then they are just being more precisely correct, if more
> impractical for their pilots.
>
>
> Matt

[Doug Semler]

On Aug 2, 8:54 am, "Hilton" > wrote:
> Matt,
>
> According to Wikipedia: "Avgas has a density of 6.02 lb/US gallon at 15 °C".
> Not sure how 'correct' this is.
>

One of the material data sheets at Shell's website says their 100LL is
0.718 kg/L at 15 C.
http://www.shell.com/static/au-en/downloads/aviation/avgas_100ll_pds.pdf

0.72 kg/L is 6.02 lb/US gallon.

I guess it depends on how "exact" you want your calcs to be. I mean,
come on, do you actually weigh yourself before you do each and every
w&b calc?

[Cubdriver]

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 09:23:23 GMT, Tom L. >
wrote:

>You need to carry a lot of fuel for this difference to amount to
>anything useful.

In the Cub, it would allow me to gain 2 pounds, or not to lose 2
pounds, as the case might be.

Every little bit helps!

Blue skies! -- Dan Ford

Claire Chennault and His American Volunteers, 1941-1942
from HarperCollins on August 21 www.flyingtigersbook.com

[Matt Whiting]

John Theune wrote:
> Matt Whiting wrote:
>> Hilton wrote:
>>> 1. Go on a diet
>>> 2. Define a gallon of 100LL as weighing 5.82 lbs instead of the
>>> usual 6 lbs - Mooney did it.
>>>
>>> Is this legal/valid? If so, why don't all manufacturers do it?
>>
>> Yes, diets are completely legal and valid and most of us should do so.
>>
>> Mooney didn't "define" a gallon of 100LL to weight 5.82 lbs, that is
>> what it DOES weigh. Someone else "defined" it as 6 lbs many moons ago
>> to simplify calculations. If Mooney is doing as you say (I didn't
>> take time to verify), then they are just being more precisely correct,
>> if more impractical for their pilots.
>>
>>
>> Matt
> For 50 gallons of fuel the difference is 9 pounds. Not much of a
> difference as most peoples weight can change 4 pounds in a day based on
> time of day and water in/out

I didn't say it made much of a difference, just that it is valid.

Matt

[Matt Whiting]

Hilton wrote:
> Matt,
>
> According to Wikipedia: "Avgas has a density of 6.02 lb/US gallon at 15 °C".
> Not sure how 'correct' this is.

I've seen several different values, but most are less than 6.00 lbs/gal.

According to this site, the specific gravity of ConocoPhillips 100LL is 0.7.

http://www.conocophillips.co.uk/NR/rdonlyres/8BF99A0D-A711-4DE6-9D4A-FE02D716B1D7/0/msds6.pdf



According to this site, the density of water at 15.5C is 8.33727 lbs/gal.

http://antoine.frostburg.edu/chem/senese/javascript/water-density.html



Multiplying that by 0.7 yields: 5.836 lb/gal for the 100LL.

I can't vouch for the calculator site, but I trust the ConocoPhillips
MSDS much more than anything on Wikipedia, which is about the least
reliable source on the internet in my experience.

Matt

[B A R R Y]

On Thu, 02 Aug 2007 17:08:46 -0400, Cubdriver <usenet AT danford DOT
net> wrote:

>
>Every little bit helps!

That's why most FBOs have public bathrooms.

"All passengers must "evacuate" before boarding." <G>

[[email protected]]

On Aug 2, 1:34 am, "Hilton" > wrote:
> 1. Go on a diet
> 2. Define a gallon of 100LL as weighing 5.82 lbs instead of the usual 6
> lbs - Mooney did it.
>
> Is this legal/valid? If so, why don't all manufacturers do it?
>
> Hilton

At Oshkosh a few pilots complained that our LED landing light was too
heavy at 0.9 lbs, which I thought was a bit silly considering that
halogen lights of the same function weigh that much and don't put out
as much light and take more power. At the same time I was thinking to
myself "and if you were to lose a few pounds it wouldn't really matter
anyway" but found myself biting my tongue instead... :-p

Your message is so true, and I for one could dramatically increase the
useful load by losing 10, 20, or even 30 pounds! That's a lot more
significant than any fuel weight rounding.

Dean
AeroLEDs LLC
www.aeroleds.com

[Aluckyguess]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Aug 2, 1:34 am, "Hilton" > wrote:
>> 1. Go on a diet
>> 2. Define a gallon of 100LL as weighing 5.82 lbs instead of the usual 6
>> lbs - Mooney did it.
>>
>> Is this legal/valid? If so, why don't all manufacturers do it?
>>
>> Hilton
>
> At Oshkosh a few pilots complained that our LED landing light was too
> heavy at 0.9 lbs, which I thought was a bit silly considering that
> halogen lights of the same function weigh that much and don't put out
> as much light and take more power. At the same time I was thinking to
> myself "and if you were to lose a few pounds it wouldn't really matter
> anyway" but found myself biting my tongue instead... :-p
>
> Your message is so true, and I for one could dramatically increase the
> useful load by losing 10, 20, or even 30 pounds! That's a lot more
> significant than any fuel weight rounding.

I could loose 30 myself.
>
> Dean
> AeroLEDs LLC
> www.aeroleds.com
>

[Hilton]

Dean,

> Your message is so true, and I for one could dramatically increase the
> useful load by losing 10, 20, or even 30 pounds! That's a lot more
> significant than any fuel weight rounding.

A year or two ago, I challenged a friend of mine (my 'flying buddy') to a
diet. Within a few months, we had increased our useful 'useful load' by 50
pounds! That's almost like changing the 160hp to a 180hp plus the added
health benefits for free.

Hilton

[Montblack]

("Aluckyguess" wrote)
> I could loose 30 myself.


Black went on a diet and shed 300 lbs!


Mont :-)