Plating 4130 parts

[Fortunat1[_9_]]

I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My understanding is
that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and nothing else, but this shop
does it's cad plating by a coating of nickel first and then cad plating..
I'm reluctant to do this for the obvious reasons until I find out what the
story is...
Anyone know?

[Fortunat1[_10_]]

Fortunat1 > wrote in
:

> I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
> rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
> understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
> nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
> nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
> obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
> Anyone know?
>

Actually, I was mistaken about the nickel. This is the actual process;

http://www.sermatech.com/documents/sts40_sermetel1207.pdf

[Fred the Red Shirt]

On Aug 7, 12:32 pm, Fortunat1 > wrote:
> Fortunat1 > wrote :
>
> > I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
> > rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
> > understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
> > nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
> > nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
> > obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
> > Anyone know?
>
> Actually, I was mistaken about the nickel. This is the actual process;
>
> http://www.sermatech.com/documents/sts40_sermetel1207.pdf

The described process is not plating. It is coating with an organic
polymer, vaguely similar to epoxy paint or powder/melt coating,
the modern replacements for baked enamels.

In general plating reduces the fatigue limit for parts by leaving the
surface in a state of residual tensile stress and if electroplated,
possibly also due to hydrogen embrittlement.

The described process would not appear to present either of those
problems, though it is always best to inquire with the manufacturer
for a specific application.

--

FF

[cavelamb himself[_2_]]

Fortunat1 wrote:

> I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
> rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My understanding is
> that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and nothing else, but this shop
> does it's cad plating by a coating of nickel first and then cad plating..
> I'm reluctant to do this for the obvious reasons until I find out what the
> story is...
> Anyone know?

You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".

[Fortunat1[_11_]]

cavelamb himself > wrote in
nk.net:

> Fortunat1 wrote:
>
>> I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
>> rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
>> understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
>> nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
>> nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
>> obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
>> Anyone know?
>
> You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>
>

Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked, but a lot
of people seem to be doing this to things like wing attachment brackets all
the same. Seems strange that AN hardware and such can be plated when such
small pieces are taking such high loads..

[cavelamb himself[_3_]]

Fortunat1 wrote:
> cavelamb himself > wrote in
> nk.net:
>
>
>>Fortunat1 wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
>>>rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
>>>understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
>>>nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
>>>nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
>>>obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
>>>Anyone know?
>>
>>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>>
>>
>
>
> Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked, but a lot
> of people seem to be doing this to things like wing attachment brackets all
> the same. Seems strange that AN hardware and such can be plated when such
> small pieces are taking such high loads..

I repeat,

You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement"

to counteract it...

[Maxwell]

"cavelamb himself" > wrote in message
news:cRcui.2237$zg3.1657@trnddc04...

> You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement"
>
> to counteract it...

The higher strength steels are often baked at 375 F, for 23 hours after cad
and electroless nickel.

[[email protected]]

On Aug 7, 11:33 pm, Fortunat1 > wrote:
> cavelamb himself > wrote link.net:
>
> > Fortunat1 wrote:
>
> >> I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
> >> rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
> >> understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
> >> nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
> >> nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
> >> obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
> >> Anyone know?
>
> > You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>
> Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked, but a lot
> of people seem to be doing this to things like wing attachment brackets all
> the same. Seems strange that AN hardware and such can be plated when such
> small pieces are taking such high loads..

Standard AN bolts are cadmium plated, and the bolts are usually made
from 8740 alloy (although they can be made from 4130) that is heat
treated to a minimum strength of 125 Ksi. So I would think that you
can have them cad plated if you use the proper process.


Bud

[[email protected]]

On Aug 8, 12:35 am, wrote:
> On Aug 7, 11:33 pm, Fortunat1 > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > cavelamb himself > wrote link.net:
>
> > > Fortunat1 wrote:
>
> > >> I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
> > >> rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
> > >> understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
> > >> nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
> > >> nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
> > >> obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
> > >> Anyone know?
>
> > > You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>
> > Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked, but a lot
> > of people seem to be doing this to things like wing attachment brackets all
> > the same. Seems strange that AN hardware and such can be plated when such
> > small pieces are taking such high loads..
>
> Standard AN bolts are cadmium plated, and the bolts are usually made
> from 8740 alloy (although they can be made from 4130) that is heat
> treated to a minimum strength of 125 Ksi. So I would think that you
> can have them cad plated if you use the proper process.

I thought AN bolts were 2330 nickel steel. That's what the
textbooks say. Maybe NAS bolts are 8740?

Dan

[Fred the Red Shirt]

On Aug 8, 5:51 am, cavelamb himself > wrote:
> Fortunat1 wrote:
> > cavelamb himself > wrote in
> nk.net:
>
> >>Fortunat1 wrote:
>
> >>>I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
> >>>rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
> >>>understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
> >>>nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
> >>>nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
> >>>obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
> >>>Anyone know?
>
> >>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>
> > Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked...
>
> I repeat,
>
> You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement"
>
> to counteract it...

And I repeat that the link he provided is to a process that is
not plating.

--

FF

[cavelamb himself[_3_]]

Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
> On Aug 8, 5:51 am, cavelamb himself > wrote:
>
>>Fortunat1 wrote:
>>
>>>cavelamb himself > wrote in
nk.net:
>>
>>>>Fortunat1 wrote:
>>
>>>>>I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
>>>>>rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
>>>>>understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
>>>>>nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
>>>>>nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
>>>>>obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
>>>>>Anyone know?
>>
>>>>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>>
>>>Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked...
>>
>>I repeat,
>>
>>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement"
>>
>>to counteract it...
>
>
> And I repeat that the link he provided is to a process that is
> not plating.
>
> --
>
> FF
>
All right now.

I'm not trying to be huffy, but clicking on a link is not exactly
my idea of proper research of a critical detail.

Nor is accepting any wisdom posted here without further checking...

First off, ask the plating guys about embrittlement.
If they know what's what, then what's the problem?
And it thy don't, then don't go there!!!

Secondly, Google is, and always will be, your friend.


Ok?

Richard

[Fred the Red Shirt]

On Aug 8, 7:07 pm, cavelamb himself > wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>
> > On Aug 8, 5:51 am, cavelamb himself > wrote:
>
> >>Fortunat1 wrote:
>
> >>>cavelamb himself > wrote in
> nk.net:
>
> >>>>Fortunat1 wrote:
>
> >>>>>I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
> >>>>>rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
> >>>>>understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
> >>>>>nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
> >>>>>nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
> >>>>>obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
> >>>>>Anyone know?
>
> >>>>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>
> >>>Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked...
>
> >>I repeat,
>
> >>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement"
>
> >>to counteract it...
>
> > And I repeat that the link he provided is to a process that is
> > not plating.
>
....
>
> All right now.
>
> I'm not trying to be huffy, but clicking on a link is not exactly
> my idea of proper research of a critical detail.

Indeed. However OP wrote:

" Actually, I was mistaken about the nickel. This is the actual
process;
http://www.sermatech.com/documents/sts40_sermetel1207.pdf"

Now, if that IS the actual process, then he was mistaken about
the cadmium as well as the nickel. If that is the process the
shop has suggested for his parts, then no information about
cadmium plating will be relevant because they aren't going
to cad plate his parts.

That would be like researching butyrate dope to prepare to paint
your plane with latex house paint.

>
> Nor is accepting any wisdom posted here without further checking...
>
> First off, ask the plating guys about embrittlement.

I disagree. First of all, he needs to understand what the
shop will to do to his parts. Asking the guys about
hydrogen embrittlement makes no sense if they use
sermetel coating. And if they do, they no doubt can
say that hydrogen embrittlement is not a problem, which
could leave OP dangerously confused if he still thinks
that semetel coating is cadmium plating.

> If they know what's what, then what's the problem?

The problem would appear to be that _OP_ doesn't
know what the shop does. Quite frankly, it
sounds like a paint shop, not a plating shop.
It may be that they don't do ANY plating at all.

> And it thy don't, then don't go there!!!

But maybe they are a very good paint shop, eh?

>
> Secondly, Google is, and always will be, your friend.
>
> Ok?
>

Yes. Google OP's original articles.

--

FF

[J.Kahn]

cavelamb himself wrote:
> Fortunat1 wrote:
>> cavelamb himself > wrote in
>> nk.net:
>>
>>> Fortunat1 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
>>>> rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
>>>> understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
>>>> nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
>>>> nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
>>>> obvious reasons until I find out what the story is... Anyone know?
>>>
>>> You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked, but a
>> lot of people seem to be doing this to things like wing attachment
>> brackets all the same. Seems strange that AN hardware and such can be
>> plated when such small pieces are taking such high loads..
>
> I repeat,
>
> You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement"
>
> to counteract it...

Chrome plating is ok as long as the proper post plating baking process
for hydrogen removal is done. I would not have it done by a commercial
plater.

John

[Fortunat1[_12_]]

Fred the Red Shirt > wrote in
oups.com:

> On Aug 8, 7:07 pm, cavelamb himself > wrote:
>> Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>>
>> > On Aug 8, 5:51 am, cavelamb himself > wrote:
>>
>> >>Fortunat1 wrote:
>>
>> >>>cavelamb himself > wrote in
>> nk.net:
>>
>> >>>>Fortunat1 wrote:
>>
>> >>>>>I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet
>> >>>>>engine rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
>> >>>>>understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
>> >>>>>nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating
>> >>>>>of nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this
>> >>>>>for the obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
>> >>>>>Anyone know?
>>
>> >>>>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>>
>> >>>Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked...
>>
>> >>I repeat,
>>
>> >>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement"
>>
>> >>to counteract it...
>>
>> > And I repeat that the link he provided is to a process that is
>> > not plating.
>>
> ...
>>
>> All right now.
>>
>> I'm not trying to be huffy, but clicking on a link is not exactly
>> my idea of proper research of a critical detail.
>
> Indeed. However OP wrote:
>
> " Actually, I was mistaken about the nickel. This is the actual
> process;
> http://www.sermatech.com/documents/sts40_sermetel1207.pdf"
>
> Now, if that IS the actual process, then he was mistaken about
> the cadmium as well as the nickel. If that is the process the
> shop has suggested for his parts, then no information about
> cadmium plating will be relevant because they aren't going
> to cad plate his parts.
>
> That would be like researching butyrate dope to prepare to paint
> your plane with latex house paint.
>
>>
>> Nor is accepting any wisdom posted here without further checking...
>>
>> First off, ask the plating guys about embrittlement.
>
> I disagree. First of all, he needs to understand what the
> shop will to do to his parts. Asking the guys about
> hydrogen embrittlement makes no sense if they use
> sermetel coating. And if they do, they no doubt can
> say that hydrogen embrittlement is not a problem, which
> could leave OP dangerously confused if he still thinks
> that semetel coating is cadmium plating.
>
>> If they know what's what, then what's the problem?
>
> The problem would appear to be that _OP_ doesn't
> know what the shop does. Quite frankly, it
> sounds like a paint shop, not a plating shop.
> It may be that they don't do ANY plating at all.
>
>> And it thy don't, then don't go there!!!
>
> But maybe they are a very good paint shop, eh?

Right, Sorry for the confusion guys. Here's the whole story with this
question.

Plan A was to paint the parts. We're talking 4130 parts in a wood wing.
Brackets, compression tubes, etc. I had planned to paint them, but my
partner in the project has someone working in a jet engine rebuild shop
that did Cad plating. Just as I posted the first part of the question
about Cad plating, I got a note from my friend telling me that due to
environmental reasons, they've dropped the cad process and are now doing
this sermetal coating instead. I only got this info and the link as I
was ready to walk out the door for a week away from home and only
glanced at it, but I thought I'd throw it in here anyway.
Back to the cad question for a just a minute, then.
I had seen a good few wood wing airplanes with cad plated parts over the
years, but the original info I got was that this shop did it a bit
different, and I suspected the methods used might be OK for the bits
they were plating for engines but maybe not so good for an old
biplane...
In any case, they've dropped the plating in favor of this coating and
i'm thinking since it's similar to powder coating in a lot of ways and
therefore may have the same drawbacks, I'm going to give it a miss and
just use standard epoxy paint instead..

>

[[email protected]]

On Aug 8, 9:44 am, wrote:
> On Aug 8, 12:35 am, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 7, 11:33 pm, Fortunat1 > wrote:
>
> > > cavelamb himself > wrote link.net:
>
> > > > Fortunat1 wrote:
>
> > > >> I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet engine
> > > >> rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
> > > >> understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
> > > >> nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating of
> > > >> nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this for the
> > > >> obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
> > > >> Anyone know?
>
> > > > You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>
> > > Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked, but a lot
> > > of people seem to be doing this to things like wing attachment brackets all
> > > the same. Seems strange that AN hardware and such can be plated when such
> > > small pieces are taking such high loads..
>
> > Standard AN bolts are cadmium plated, and the bolts are usually made
> > from 8740 alloy (although they can be made from 4130) that is heat
> > treated to a minimum strength of 125 Ksi. So I would think that you
> > can have them cad plated if you use the proper process.
>
> I thought AN bolts were 2330 nickel steel. That's what the
> textbooks say. Maybe NAS bolts are 8740?
>
> Dan- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Going from memory of the last time I read the procurement spec, AN
bolts presently can be made from either 8740, 4130, or 4140 alloy. The
Aircraft Spruce catalogue states this as well where it shows AN bolts.
4037 alloy is an old one and has been superceeded, however I'm sure
you would find many of them on old aircraft. 8740 is usually used
because it heat treats easier than 4140 or especially 4130 alloy and
is therefore cheaper to manufacture, although all are suitable as long
as they meet spec.
There are much better alloys of course, but for relatively low
strength 125 ksi bolts, they are fine. Most large aircraft
manufacturers use 160 ksi minimum bolts for all structural
applications except where absolutely necessary, because 160 ksi bolts
are about as cheap as AN bolts.

Regards,
Bud

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 06:56:29 +0000 (UTC), Fortunat1 > wrote:



>i'm thinking since it's similar to powder coating in a lot of ways and
>therefore may have the same drawbacks, I'm going to give it a miss and
>just use standard epoxy paint instead..
>
>>

whatever process you use get a tube of Duralac and smear the face of
the metal abutting the wood with duralac, then push them into position
and bolt. this is a jointing compound designed to prevent corrosion
between dissimilar materials.
it is used in aviation and it works.

the rest of what you are doing is quite ok.

Stealth Pilot

[Fortunat1[_9_]]

Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:

> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 06:56:29 +0000 (UTC), Fortunat1 > wrote:
>
>
>
>>i'm thinking since it's similar to powder coating in a lot of ways and
>>therefore may have the same drawbacks, I'm going to give it a miss and
>>just use standard epoxy paint instead..
>>
>>>
>
> whatever process you use get a tube of Duralac and smear the face of
> the metal abutting the wood with duralac, then push them into position
> and bolt. this is a jointing compound designed to prevent corrosion
> between dissimilar materials.
> it is used in aviation and it works.
>
> the rest of what you are doing is quite ok.


Thanks. I'll do that! Would you put a bit on the bolts as well?

[cavelamb himself[_3_]]

Fortunat1 wrote:
> Fred the Red Shirt > wrote in
> oups.com:
>
>
>>On Aug 8, 7:07 pm, cavelamb himself > wrote:
>>
>>>Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Aug 8, 5:51 am, cavelamb himself > wrote:
>>>
>>>>>Fortunat1 wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>cavelamb himself > wrote in
nk.net:
>>>
>>>>>>>Fortunat1 wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>>I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet
>>>>>>>>engine rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated. My
>>>>>>>>understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium and
>>>>>>>>nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a coating
>>>>>>>>of nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to do this
>>>>>>>>for the obvious reasons until I find out what the story is...
>>>>>>>>Anyone know?
>>>
>>>>>>>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>>>
>>>>>>Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I asked...
>>>
>>>>>I repeat,
>>>
>>>>>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement"
>>>
>>>>>to counteract it...
>>>
>>>>And I repeat that the link he provided is to a process that is
>>>>not plating.
>>>
>>...
>>
>>>All right now.
>>>
>>>I'm not trying to be huffy, but clicking on a link is not exactly
>>>my idea of proper research of a critical detail.
>>
>>Indeed. However OP wrote:
>>
>>" Actually, I was mistaken about the nickel. This is the actual
>>process;
>>http://www.sermatech.com/documents/sts40_sermetel1207.pdf"
>>
>>Now, if that IS the actual process, then he was mistaken about
>>the cadmium as well as the nickel. If that is the process the
>>shop has suggested for his parts, then no information about
>>cadmium plating will be relevant because they aren't going
>>to cad plate his parts.
>>
>>That would be like researching butyrate dope to prepare to paint
>>your plane with latex house paint.
>>
>>
>>>Nor is accepting any wisdom posted here without further checking...
>>>
>>>First off, ask the plating guys about embrittlement.
>>
>>I disagree. First of all, he needs to understand what the
>>shop will to do to his parts. Asking the guys about
>>hydrogen embrittlement makes no sense if they use
>>sermetel coating. And if they do, they no doubt can
>>say that hydrogen embrittlement is not a problem, which
>>could leave OP dangerously confused if he still thinks
>>that semetel coating is cadmium plating.
>>
>>
>>>If they know what's what, then what's the problem?
>>
>>The problem would appear to be that _OP_ doesn't
>>know what the shop does. Quite frankly, it
>>sounds like a paint shop, not a plating shop.
>>It may be that they don't do ANY plating at all.
>>
>>
>>>And it thy don't, then don't go there!!!
>>
>>But maybe they are a very good paint shop, eh?
>
>
> Right, Sorry for the confusion guys. Here's the whole story with this
> question.
>
> Plan A was to paint the parts. We're talking 4130 parts in a wood wing.
> Brackets, compression tubes, etc. I had planned to paint them, but my
> partner in the project has someone working in a jet engine rebuild shop
> that did Cad plating. Just as I posted the first part of the question
> about Cad plating, I got a note from my friend telling me that due to
> environmental reasons, they've dropped the cad process and are now doing
> this sermetal coating instead. I only got this info and the link as I
> was ready to walk out the door for a week away from home and only
> glanced at it, but I thought I'd throw it in here anyway.
> Back to the cad question for a just a minute, then.
> I had seen a good few wood wing airplanes with cad plated parts over the
> years, but the original info I got was that this shop did it a bit
> different, and I suspected the methods used might be OK for the bits
> they were plating for engines but maybe not so good for an old
> biplane...
> In any case, they've dropped the plating in favor of this coating and
> i'm thinking since it's similar to powder coating in a lot of ways and
> therefore may have the same drawbacks, I'm going to give it a miss and
> just use standard epoxy paint instead..
>
>
>

If I may make a suggestion...

I've used, and strongly recommend, Epi-Bond or Randoplate for priming
metal parts.

Epoxy paint, by itself, will not be reliable over the years.

Richard

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:08:33 +0000 (UTC), Fortunat1 > wrote:

>Stealth Pilot > wrote in
:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 06:56:29 +0000 (UTC), Fortunat1 > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>i'm thinking since it's similar to powder coating in a lot of ways and
>>>therefore may have the same drawbacks, I'm going to give it a miss and
>>>just use standard epoxy paint instead..
>>>
>>>>
>>
>> whatever process you use get a tube of Duralac and smear the face of
>> the metal abutting the wood with duralac, then push them into position
>> and bolt. this is a jointing compound designed to prevent corrosion
>> between dissimilar materials.
>> it is used in aviation and it works.
>>
>> the rest of what you are doing is quite ok.
>
>
>Thanks. I'll do that! Would you put a bit on the bolts as well?
>
>
certainly. dip any rivets you use in it as well. smear it in a
continuous coating between dissimilar materials and let it squish out
as you nut up the fasteners. wipe off the excess. it dries/cures to
something like a rubbery coating.

works metal(steel etc) to aluminium as well.

Stealth Pilot

[Fortunat1[_2_]]

cavelamb himself > wrote in
news:5LIui.10913$dD3.3089@trnddc07:

> Fortunat1 wrote:
>> Fred the Red Shirt > wrote in
>> oups.com:
>>
>>
>>>On Aug 8, 7:07 pm, cavelamb himself > wrote:
>>>
>>>>Fred the Red Shirt wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Aug 8, 5:51 am, cavelamb himself > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>Fortunat1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>cavelamb himself > wrote in
nk.net:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>Fortunat1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I have access to a plating facility (aviation, but it's a jet
>>>>>>>>>engine rebuild shop) where I can get my wing fittings plated.
>>>>>>>>>My understanding is that 4130 cad plating is just that, cadmium
>>>>>>>>>and nothing else, but this shop does it's cad plating by a
>>>>>>>>>coating of nickel first and then cad plating.. I'm reluctant to
>>>>>>>>>do this for the obvious reasons until I find out what the story
>>>>>>>>>is... Anyone know?
>>>>
>>>>>>>>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement".
>>>>
>>>>>>>Yeah, I was aware of hydrogen embritlement which is why I
>>>>>>>asked...
>>>>
>>>>>>I repeat,
>>>>
>>>>>>You might want to research "Hydrogen embrittlement"
>>>>
>>>>>>to counteract it...
>>>>
>>>>>And I repeat that the link he provided is to a process that is
>>>>>not plating.
>>>>
>>>...
>>>
>>>>All right now.
>>>>
>>>>I'm not trying to be huffy, but clicking on a link is not exactly
>>>>my idea of proper research of a critical detail.
>>>
>>>Indeed. However OP wrote:
>>>
>>>" Actually, I was mistaken about the nickel. This is the actual
>>>process;
>>>http://www.sermatech.com/documents/sts40_sermetel1207.pdf"
>>>
>>>Now, if that IS the actual process, then he was mistaken about
>>>the cadmium as well as the nickel. If that is the process the
>>>shop has suggested for his parts, then no information about
>>>cadmium plating will be relevant because they aren't going
>>>to cad plate his parts.
>>>
>>>That would be like researching butyrate dope to prepare to paint
>>>your plane with latex house paint.
>>>
>>>
>>>>Nor is accepting any wisdom posted here without further checking...
>>>>
>>>>First off, ask the plating guys about embrittlement.
>>>
>>>I disagree. First of all, he needs to understand what the
>>>shop will to do to his parts. Asking the guys about
>>>hydrogen embrittlement makes no sense if they use
>>>sermetel coating. And if they do, they no doubt can
>>>say that hydrogen embrittlement is not a problem, which
>>>could leave OP dangerously confused if he still thinks
>>>that semetel coating is cadmium plating.
>>>
>>>
>>>>If they know what's what, then what's the problem?
>>>
>>>The problem would appear to be that _OP_ doesn't
>>>know what the shop does. Quite frankly, it
>>>sounds like a paint shop, not a plating shop.
>>>It may be that they don't do ANY plating at all.
>>>
>>>
>>>>And it thy don't, then don't go there!!!
>>>
>>>But maybe they are a very good paint shop, eh?
>>
>>
>> Right, Sorry for the confusion guys. Here's the whole story with this
>> question.
>>
>> Plan A was to paint the parts. We're talking 4130 parts in a wood
>> wing. Brackets, compression tubes, etc. I had planned to paint them,
>> but my partner in the project has someone working in a jet engine
>> rebuild shop that did Cad plating. Just as I posted the first part of
>> the question about Cad plating, I got a note from my friend telling
>> me that due to environmental reasons, they've dropped the cad process
>> and are now doing this sermetal coating instead. I only got this info
>> and the link as I was ready to walk out the door for a week away from
>> home and only glanced at it, but I thought I'd throw it in here
>> anyway. Back to the cad question for a just a minute, then.
>> I had seen a good few wood wing airplanes with cad plated parts over
>> the years, but the original info I got was that this shop did it a
>> bit different, and I suspected the methods used might be OK for the
>> bits they were plating for engines but maybe not so good for an old
>> biplane...
>> In any case, they've dropped the plating in favor of this coating and
>> i'm thinking since it's similar to powder coating in a lot of ways
>> and therefore may have the same drawbacks, I'm going to give it a
>> miss and just use standard epoxy paint instead..
>>
>>
>>
>
> If I may make a suggestion...
>
> I've used, and strongly recommend, Epi-Bond or Randoplate for priming
> metal parts.
>
> Epoxy paint, by itself, will not be reliable over the years.


OK. well, the plan was for an etch primer, epoxy primer then gloss
epoxy. It's all internal wing parts, the fuse tubing and such...

[Blueskies]

"Stealth Pilot" > wrote in message ...

>>> whatever process you use get a tube of Duralac and smear the face of
>>> the metal abutting the wood with duralac, then push them into position
>>> and bolt. this is a jointing compound designed to prevent corrosion
>>> between dissimilar materials.
>>> it is used in aviation and it works.
>>>
>>> the rest of what you are doing is quite ok.
>>
>>
>>Thanks. I'll do that! Would you put a bit on the bolts as well?
>>
>>
> certainly. dip any rivets you use in it as well. smear it in a
> continuous coating between dissimilar materials and let it squish out
> as you nut up the fasteners. wipe off the excess. it dries/cures to
> something like a rubbery coating.
>
> works metal(steel etc) to aluminium as well.
>
> Stealth Pilot

Does anyone see a similar product sold in USA?