what went wrong

[Dick[_1_]]

Having spent 4-1/2 hours removing and 1 hour replacing a leaking split seal
on the front of my flanged crankshaft C-85 , my first flight today still
shows leakage....

Never really doing those old Chevy two part split seals well, I guess I'm
still inept <G>.

I think I'll be able to better the aforementioned time durations but would
appreciate any hints at doing a better job this time.

Thanks, Dick

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Dick" > wrote in message
news:c26ui.7629$dD3.905@trnddc07...
> Having spent 4-1/2 hours removing and 1 hour replacing a leaking split
> seal on the front of my flanged crankshaft C-85 , my first flight today
> still shows leakage....
>
> Never really doing those old Chevy two part split seals well, I guess I'm
> still inept <G>.
>
> I think I'll be able to better the aforementioned time durations but would
> appreciate any hints at doing a better job this time.
>
> Thanks, Dick

OK, I aint no A&P...

but, what kind of shape is the crankshaft surface in?

Is the crankcase vent flowing without obstruction?

What did you use to re-install the new seal?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Dick[_1_]]

no visible scratches or marks on crank; vent is flowing; slightly oiled
perimeter and pushed into engine case with wood handle of screwdriver...seal
split is at about 1pm position.

placing spring ends together and getting up into the seal insides was
difficult.. Can I assume once up there the spring stays??? Anybody know ??


"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in message
news:OvWdnS8oJJ_7aSXbnZ2dnUVZ_rmjnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
> "Dick" > wrote in message
> news:c26ui.7629$dD3.905@trnddc07...
>> Having spent 4-1/2 hours removing and 1 hour replacing a leaking split
>> seal on the front of my flanged crankshaft C-85 , my first flight today
>> still shows leakage....
>>
>> Never really doing those old Chevy two part split seals well, I guess I'm
>> still inept <G>.
>>
>> I think I'll be able to better the aforementioned time durations but
>> would appreciate any hints at doing a better job this time.
>>
>> Thanks, Dick
>
> OK, I aint no A&P...
>
> but, what kind of shape is the crankshaft surface in?
>
> Is the crankcase vent flowing without obstruction?
>
> What did you use to re-install the new seal?
>
> --
> Geoff
> The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
> remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
> When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.
>

[[email protected]]

On Aug 7, 5:56 pm, "Dick" > wrote:
> no visible scratches or marks on crank; vent is flowing; slightly oiled
> perimeter and pushed into engine case with wood handle of screwdriver...seal
> split is at about 1pm position.
>
> placing spring ends together and getting up into the seal insides was
> difficult.. Can I assume once up there the spring stays??? Anybody know ??
>

Should have used rubber cement (3M's 847) on the outer
perimeter and in the engine case bore. The spring might have popped
off if you didn't keep the split ends lined up as you pushed the seal
in.

Dan

[Dick[_1_]]

how would I get this new unglued seal out for another try? I destroyed the
old one getting it out. New one had the tightest split I had ever
experienced but finally was able to push enough to get the entire seal into
the bore.

do you think I should go ahead and order another seal?
> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Aug 7, 5:56 pm, "Dick" > wrote:
>> no visible scratches or marks on crank; vent is flowing; slightly oiled
>> perimeter and pushed into engine case with wood handle of
>> screwdriver...seal
>> split is at about 1pm position.
>>
>> placing spring ends together and getting up into the seal insides was
>> difficult.. Can I assume once up there the spring stays??? Anybody know
>> ??
>>
>
> Should have used rubber cement (3M's 847) on the outer
> perimeter and in the engine case bore. The spring might have popped
> off if you didn't keep the split ends lined up as you pushed the seal
> in.
>
> Dan
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Aug 8, 1:28 pm, "Dick" > wrote:
> how would I get this new unglued seal out for another try? I destroyed the
> old one getting it out. New one had the tightest split I had ever
> experienced but finally was able to push enough to get the entire seal into
> the bore.
>
> do you think I should go ahead and order another seal?

I wonder if a little air pressure up the breather might help
that seal come out again? And then check the bore to see that there
isn't some dried adhesive in there that may be interfering with the
sealing of the seal against the case.
But just a little pressure: you don't want to start blowing
gaskets or tachometer drive seals.

Dan

[Dick[_1_]]

I'm hesitant on the air pressure but will think on it.

Tomorrow I will look at the old chewed up seal to see if I can possibly pry
at seal/case edge on 4-8-12 oclock positions and conceivably get it out in
one piece. My gut says I'll destroy it and need to order another <G>.


> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Aug 8, 1:28 pm, "Dick" > wrote:
>> how would I get this new unglued seal out for another try? I destroyed
>> the
>> old one getting it out. New one had the tightest split I had ever
>> experienced but finally was able to push enough to get the entire seal
>> into
>> the bore.
>>
>> do you think I should go ahead and order another seal?
>
> I wonder if a little air pressure up the breather might help
> that seal come out again? And then check the bore to see that there
> isn't some dried adhesive in there that may be interfering with the
> sealing of the seal against the case.
> But just a little pressure: you don't want to start blowing
> gaskets or tachometer drive seals.
>
> Dan
>

[Tri-Pacer]

Some months back I put a new seal on a C-85 and had it continue to leak.
After a LOT of head scratching it turned out that the breather, which exited
through the cowl, had been repositioned and was pressurizing the crankcase.

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
KPLU

[Dick[_1_]]

I'm 99% sure it is not pressurizing but wonder if you used a sealant tween
the seal and case?
"Tri-Pacer" > wrote in message
...
> Some months back I put a new seal on a C-85 and had it continue to leak.
> After a LOT of head scratching it turned out that the breather, which
> exited through the cowl, had been repositioned and was pressurizing the
> crankcase.
>
> Cheers:
>
> Paul
> N1431A
> KPLU
>

[Cy Galley]

Continental which used the same type seal as the Lycoming and Franklin
recommends the split be at 11 or 1 o'clock.(case spilt is at 12. My
recommendation is to use "super glue" on the ends. Make sure the recess is
clean and dry. Use a sealer on the outside. I like Loctite 515 and remember
to replace the garter spring and grease the lip. Look at Continental M76-4
for the complete Continental instructions.


Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A 46 Year Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
"Dick" > wrote in message
news:c26ui.7629$dD3.905@trnddc07...
> Having spent 4-1/2 hours removing and 1 hour replacing a leaking split
> seal on the front of my flanged crankshaft C-85 , my first flight today
> still shows leakage....
>
> Never really doing those old Chevy two part split seals well, I guess I'm
> still inept <G>.
>
> I think I'll be able to better the aforementioned time durations but would
> appreciate any hints at doing a better job this time.
>
> Thanks, Dick
>

[Dick[_1_]]

thanks for M76-4 copy and everyone's advice. am going to order another seal
and do better.
"Cy Galley" > wrote in message
news:FVzui.55189$Fc.32497@attbi_s21...
> Continental which used the same type seal as the Lycoming and Franklin
> recommends the split be at 11 or 1 o'clock.(case spilt is at 12. My
> recommendation is to use "super glue" on the ends. Make sure the recess
> is clean and dry. Use a sealer on the outside. I like Loctite 515 and
> remember to replace the garter spring and grease the lip. Look at
> Continental M76-4 for the complete Continental instructions.
>
>
> Cy Galley - Chair,
> AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
> A 46 Year Service Project of Chapter 75
> EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
> EAA Sport Pilot
> "Dick" > wrote in message
> news:c26ui.7629$dD3.905@trnddc07...
>> Having spent 4-1/2 hours removing and 1 hour replacing a leaking split
>> seal on the front of my flanged crankshaft C-85 , my first flight today
>> still shows leakage....
>>
>> Never really doing those old Chevy two part split seals well, I guess I'm
>> still inept <G>.
>>
>> I think I'll be able to better the aforementioned time durations but
>> would appreciate any hints at doing a better job this time.
>>
>> Thanks, Dick
>>
>
>

[Dave[_16_]]

Dick wrote:
> thanks for M76-4 copy and everyone's advice. am going to order another seal
> and do better.
> "Cy Galley" > wrote in message
> news:FVzui.55189$Fc.32497@attbi_s21...
>> Continental which used the same type seal as the Lycoming and Franklin
>> recommends the split be at 11 or 1 o'clock.(case spilt is at 12. My
>> recommendation is to use "super glue" on the ends. Make sure the recess
>> is clean and dry. Use a sealer on the outside. I like Loctite 515 and
>> remember to replace the garter spring and grease the lip. Look at
>> Continental M76-4 for the complete Continental instructions.
>>
>>
>> Cy Galley - Chair,
>> AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
>> A 46 Year Service Project of Chapter 75
>> EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
>> EAA Sport Pilot
>> "Dick" > wrote in message
>> news:c26ui.7629$dD3.905@trnddc07...
>>> Having spent 4-1/2 hours removing and 1 hour replacing a leaking split
>>> seal on the front of my flanged crankshaft C-85 , my first flight today
>>> still shows leakage....
>>>
>>> Never really doing those old Chevy two part split seals well, I guess I'm
>>> still inept <G>.
>>>
>>> I think I'll be able to better the aforementioned time durations but
>>> would appreciate any hints at doing a better job this time.
>>>
>>> Thanks, Dick
>>>
>>
>
>
Does Continental have a solid seal for the engine? The type you force
over the prop flange?
I've used those before and have seemed to do a good job.
Just a thought.

Dave

[[email protected]]

On Aug 9, 8:08 am, Dave > wrote:
> Dick wrote:
> > thanks for M76-4 copy and everyone's advice. am going to order another seal
> > and do better.
> > "Cy Galley" > wrote in message
> >news:FVzui.55189$Fc.32497@attbi_s21...
> >> Continental which used the same type seal as the Lycoming and Franklin
> >> recommends the split be at 11 or 1 o'clock.(case spilt is at 12. My
> >> recommendation is to use "super glue" on the ends. Make sure the recess
> >> is clean and dry. Use a sealer on the outside. I like Loctite 515 and
> >> remember to replace the garter spring and grease the lip. Look at
> >> Continental M76-4 for the complete Continental instructions.
>
> >> Cy Galley - Chair,
> >> AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
> >> A 46 Year Service Project of Chapter 75
> >> EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
> >> EAA Sport Pilot
> >> "Dick" > wrote in message
> >>news:c26ui.7629$dD3.905@trnddc07...
> >>> Having spent 4-1/2 hours removing and 1 hour replacing a leaking split
> >>> seal on the front of my flanged crankshaft C-85 , my first flight today
> >>> still shows leakage....
>
> >>> Never really doing those old Chevy two part split seals well, I guess I'm
> >>> still inept <G>.
>
> >>> I think I'll be able to better the aforementioned time durations but
> >>> would appreciate any hints at doing a better job this time.
>
> >>> Thanks, Dick
>
> Does Continental have a solid seal for the engine? The type you force
> over the prop flange?
> I've used those before and have seemed to do a good job.
> Just a thought.

Never seen one, at least for the small engines. That's Lycoming's
method.

Dan

[[email protected]]

On Aug 9, 8:08 am, Dave > wrote:
> Dick wrote:
> > thanks for M76-4 copy and everyone's advice. am going to order another seal
> > and do better.
> > "Cy Galley" > wrote in message
> >news:FVzui.55189$Fc.32497@attbi_s21...
> >> Continental which used the same type seal as the Lycoming and Franklin
> >> recommends the split be at 11 or 1 o'clock.(case spilt is at 12. My
> >> recommendation is to use "super glue" on the ends. Make sure the recess
> >> is clean and dry. Use a sealer on the outside. I like Loctite 515 and
> >> remember to replace the garter spring and grease the lip. Look at
> >> Continental M76-4 for the complete Continental instructions.
>
> >> Cy Galley - Chair,
> >> AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
> >> A 46 Year Service Project of Chapter 75
> >> EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
> >> EAA Sport Pilot
> >> "Dick" > wrote in message
> >>news:c26ui.7629$dD3.905@trnddc07...
> >>> Having spent 4-1/2 hours removing and 1 hour replacing a leaking split
> >>> seal on the front of my flanged crankshaft C-85 , my first flight today
> >>> still shows leakage....
>
> >>> Never really doing those old Chevy two part split seals well, I guess I'm
> >>> still inept <G>.
>
> >>> I think I'll be able to better the aforementioned time durations but
> >>> would appreciate any hints at doing a better job this time.
>
> >>> Thanks, Dick
>
> Does Continental have a solid seal for the engine? The type you force
> over the prop flange?
> I've used those before and have seemed to do a good job.
> Just a thought.

Seems to me I vaguely remember that there were a couple of
different types of crankcases: one had a big cavity behind the seal so
that there was no problem draining the oil away from it, and the other
had a small drain hole that guck would plug up so that the oil was
eventually forced past the seal. Pressure from the front main would do
it.
But this is really vague and might be applicable to some
other engine. My memory isn't what it was.

Dan

[Peter Dohm]

>
> Seems to me I vaguely remember that there were a couple of
> different types of crankcases: one had a big cavity behind the seal so
> that there was no problem draining the oil away from it, and the other
> had a small drain hole that guck would plug up so that the oil was
> eventually forced past the seal. Pressure from the front main would do
> it.
> But this is really vague and might be applicable to some
> other engine. My memory isn't what it was.
>
> Dan
>
My hypothesis is that too much new data forces a lot of old memory out the
drian hole, or past the seal.

That's my story an' I'm stikin' to it.

Peter