blue foam, pink foam, yellow foam?

[Corrie]

What's the difference? I see references to blue foam all the time - why?

[Robert Bonomi]

In article >,
Corrie > wrote:
>What's the difference? I see references to blue foam all the time - why?

because you can shoot it with a blue foam gun.

with pink foam, you have to hold it's nose till it turns blue, *then* shoot
it with the blue foam gun.

(*shamelessly* stolen from an _old_ 'elephant joke')

[Jeff]

Here is the quick down and dirty on foam....

When you are talking about building airplanes there are 2 basic types of
foam, polystyrene (blue, pink) and polyurethane (tan, white, yellow). What
you really need to know is that polystyrene foam can be hot wire cut and is
very susceptible to fuel. Polyurethane should not be hot wire cut since it
emits cyanide gas when burned, but it is impervious to fuel. Generally
speaking, polystyrene foam comes in big blocks for hot wire cutting wings
and the like. Polyurethane foam normally comes in sheets or varying
thicknesses (1/4" to about 1"). The foams will also come in various
densities in weight per cubic feet.

When you talk about blue foam or polystyrene foam there is the construction
insulation stuff and flotation billets. The construction insulation has a
very small cell structure and I do not think it would bond very well to the
fiberglass. The flotation billet on the other hand has a more open cell
that will bond well with the fiberglass cloth.

Hope this helps.

Jeff

"Corrie" > wrote in message
om...
> What's the difference? I see references to blue foam all the time - why?

[clare @ snyder.on .ca]

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:57:00 -0500, "Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com>
wrote:

>Here is the quick down and dirty on foam....
>
>When you are talking about building airplanes there are 2 basic types of
>foam, polystyrene (blue, pink) and polyurethane (tan, white, yellow). What
>you really need to know is that polystyrene foam can be hot wire cut and is
>very susceptible to fuel. Polyurethane should not be hot wire cut since it
>emits cyanide gas when burned, but it is impervious to fuel. Generally
>speaking, polystyrene foam comes in big blocks for hot wire cutting wings
>and the like. Polyurethane foam normally comes in sheets or varying
>thicknesses (1/4" to about 1"). The foams will also come in various
>densities in weight per cubic feet.
>
>When you talk about blue foam or polystyrene foam there is the construction
>insulation stuff and flotation billets. The construction insulation has a
>very small cell structure and I do not think it would bond very well to the
>fiberglass. The flotation billet on the other hand has a more open cell
>that will bond well with the fiberglass cloth.
>
There are several kinds of polystyrene insulation board. Usually
referred to as Styrofoam and Styrofoam SM in the construction trades
up here in Canada. Styrofoam is almost always white, and has a beady
texture. It is low density and rough. It is also available in big
blocks. Cheap foam coolers are made of this stuff.
Pink and Blue Styrofoam SM is often used as sheathing. It is higher
density and smooth. Usually comes in 2 foot widths, and with lap
edges. Occaisionally found in large blocks. This stuff has some
strength to it, where the white bead board is relatively low strength.

>Hope this helps.
>
>Jeff
>
>"Corrie" > wrote in message
om...
>> What's the difference? I see references to blue foam all the time - why?
>

[Ron Natalie]

"Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com> wrote in message ...
> Here is the quick down and dirty on foam....
>
> When you are talking about building airplanes there are 2 basic types of
> foam, polystyrene (blue, pink) and polyurethane (tan, white, yellow). What
> you really need to know is that polystyrene foam can be hot wire cut and is
> very susceptible to fuel.

I wasn't going to mention this, but since you started talking about construction
materials later, I'll go ahead anyhow. Polystyrene also comes in white.

[Corrie]

Thanks - exactly the info I was looking for!

clare @ snyder.on .ca wrote in message >...
> On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 21:57:00 -0500, "Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Here is the quick down and dirty on foam....
....

> >Hope this helps.
> >
> >Jeff

[clare @ snyder.on .ca]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:27:10 -0400, "Ron Natalie" >
wrote:

>
>
>> >
>> There are several kinds of polystyrene insulation board. Usually
>> referred to as Styrofoam and Styrofoam SM in the construction trades
>> up here in Canada.
>
>Dow's trademark Styrofoam applies strictly to extruded polystyrene (and
>in Dow's case it's blue, also a trademark of Dow). The pebbly white stuff
>used for coffee cups and coolers is expanded polystyrene and is a misuse
>of the trademark.
>
Check your facts. Dow made and sold white expanded "beadboard"
insulation under the Styrofoam label for years in Canada, and then
introduced Styrofoam SM rigid foamboard to the market. The SM was to
differentiate between 2 products.I believe Morval Durofoam used Dow
supplied styrene to produce the blown foam coolers and other "expanded
styrene"" products . They now also have an SP.

Dow Styrofoam is also used in crafts, where it is white. See:
http://www.dow.com/craft/index.htm

Also see: http://www.glacierbay.com/dowtest.htm where it states: "Dow
Chemical's "Styrofoam" brand name encompasses a wide range of
polystyrene-based insulation products. Included in our testing were
two versions, the common white "expanded" product and the "extruded"
Styrofoam Square Edge (see photo).

Styrofoam (expanded)- This is the product most people think of when
they hear "Styrofoam". It is white in color and comprised of
thousands of individual "beads" which are pressed together. The most
common use is as a cushioning material in shipping and packaging.
Although it is not intended for use as an insulation, it frequently
is. Most people have seen cheap coolers and ice chests made from it.
As an insulation, expanded Styrofoam has many qualities which count
against it. At R 3.84 per inch, the product is simply not a very good
insulator. Secondly, it is very hygroscopicity (absorbs and holds
moisture). This tendency to get, and stay wet, makes it something
to definitely avoid when looking at ice box insulation.

Styrofoam Square Edge (extruded) - This product is often called
"blueboard" due to its light blue color. In spite of its relatively
modest "R" value (4.92 per inch), Styrofoam SM is our overwhelming
recommendation for foam ice box insulation in marine applications.
Unlike its expanded cousin (above)and virtually all other foam
insulation, Styrofoam "Square Edge" is completely impervious to
moisture. This is a huge plus. While many other foams start out as
better insulators, they inevitably suffer significant decline as they
absorb moisture from the surrounding air. This is not the case with
Styrofoam SP. Another benefit of its hydrophobic nature is that no
"air gap" is required when installing it. This means that more
insulation can be packed into a smaller space. If is available in many
thicknesses and two sheet sizes."

[clare @ snyder.on .ca]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 17:19:53 -0400, "Ron Natalie" >
wrote:

>
><clare @ snyder.on .ca> wrote in message ...
>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:27:10 -0400, "Ron Natalie" >
>> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> >
>> >> There are several kinds of polystyrene insulation board. Usually
>> >> referred to as Styrofoam and Styrofoam SM in the construction trades
>> >> up here in Canada.
>> >
>> >Dow's trademark Styrofoam applies strictly to extruded polystyrene (and
>> >in Dow's case it's blue, also a trademark of Dow). The pebbly white stuff
>> >used for coffee cups and coolers is expanded polystyrene and is a misuse
>> >of the trademark.
>> >
>> Check your facts. Dow made and sold white expanded "beadboard"
>> insulation under the Styrofoam label for years in Canada, and then
>> introduced Styrofoam SM rigid foamboard to the market. The SM was to
>> differentiate between 2 products.I believe Morval Durofoam used Dow
>> supplied styrene to produce the blown foam coolers and other "expanded
>> styrene"" products . They now also have an SP.
>>
>http://www.dow.com/styrofoam/na/about/regtm.htm
>
Dow does not make the disposable foam products. That I agree with.
They DID and possibly still do make white beadboard insulation panels,
and white craft foam under the styrofoam name. They were sold here in
Canada, whether they were made in the USA or not I don't know, or
particularly care.

I have documented it well enough. I have used enough of it over the
years, back in the sixties already, when all you could get was the
beadboard type Styrofoam up here in the cold white north.
It had "Styrofoam" and "DOW" printed on it in blue ink.

[Kevin Horton]

On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 18:19:53 -0400, Ron Natalie wrote:

>
> <clare @ snyder.on .ca> wrote in message
> ...
>> On Tue, 26 Aug 2003 10:27:10 -0400, "Ron Natalie" >
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> >> There are several kinds of polystyrene insulation board. Usually
>> >> referred to as Styrofoam and Styrofoam SM in the construction trades
>> >> up here in Canada.
>> >
>> >Dow's trademark Styrofoam applies strictly to extruded polystyrene (and
>> >in Dow's case it's blue, also a trademark of Dow). The pebbly white
>> >stuff used for coffee cups and coolers is expanded polystyrene and is a
>> >misuse of the trademark.
>> >
>> Check your facts. Dow made and sold white expanded "beadboard"
>> insulation under the Styrofoam label for years in Canada, and then
>> introduced Styrofoam SM rigid foamboard to the market. The SM was to
>> differentiate between 2 products.I believe Morval Durofoam used Dow
>> supplied styrene to produce the blown foam coolers and other "expanded
>> styrene"" products . They now also have an SP.
>>
> http://www.dow.com/styrofoam/na/about/regtm.htm

The different parts of the Dow site put a slightly different twist on
this. A similar page on the craft part of Dow's site acknowledges that
they sold Styrofoam insulation that was in colours other than blue.

http://www.dow.com/craft/about/cup.htm
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/

[RobertR237]

In article >, clare @ snyder.on .ca
writes:

>
>I think this is more evidence of the dumbing of American and Canadian
>industry. Most large companies have "dumbsized" to the point they have
>no-one left on staff who knows anything of the company's history, or
>about any products they made more than 10 years ago. ( get rid of all
>the old guys - they cost too much in benefits - we can get young
>blood, fresh out of college, with fresh ideas, for half as much) One
>division has ;little or no knowlege what the other division does.
>
>

Which ultimately results in mistakes that were made and corrected years ago
will now be repeated.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Roger Halstead]

On 24 Aug 2003 22:33:05 -0700, wrote:

>In article >, Corrie says...
>>
>>What's the difference? I see references to blue foam all the time - why?
>
>When people reference blue foam they're probably talking about Dow Styrofoam PI
>(Pipe Insulation) or BB (Buency Billet) foam that can be hot-wired. It's about
>2 lb/sq ft, pretty cheap, comes in big blocks and can be laminated over with
>epoxy but not polyester or vinyl-ester.

I have the G-III fuselage "propped" up on the supports using
Styrofoam(TM) pieces. When I was working on the reinforcement rib
laminations I had to lay the stippling brush down...some where....and
I laid it on a piece of Styrofoam. It went right through the board in
less than a minute.

You're right. Vinyl ester resin and Styrofoam do not work well
together. <:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

[[email protected]]

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 17:53:30 GMT, Roger Halstead
> wrote:

:On 24 Aug 2003 22:33:05 -0700, wrote:
:
:>In article >, Corrie says...
:>>
:>>What's the difference? I see references to blue foam all the time - why?
:>
:>When people reference blue foam they're probably talking about Dow Styrofoam PI
:>(Pipe Insulation) or BB (Buency Billet) foam that can be hot-wired. It's about
:>2 lb/sq ft, pretty cheap, comes in big blocks and can be laminated over with
:>epoxy but not polyester or vinyl-ester.
:
:I have the G-III fuselage "propped" up on the supports using
:Styrofoam(TM) pieces. When I was working on the reinforcement rib
:laminations I had to lay the stippling brush down...some where....and
:I laid it on a piece of Styrofoam. It went right through the board in
:less than a minute.

Wow. I didn't know the Gulfstream III had composite ribs. :^

[Roger Halstead]

On 27 Aug 2003 15:07:03 GMT, (RobertR237)
wrote:

>In article >, clare @ snyder.on .ca
>writes:
>
>>
>>I think this is more evidence of the dumbing of American and Canadian
>>industry. Most large companies have "dumbsized" to the point they have
>>no-one left on staff who knows anything of the company's history, or
>>about any products they made more than 10 years ago. ( get rid of all
>>the old guys - they cost too much in benefits - we can get young
>>blood, fresh out of college, with fresh ideas, for half as much) One
>>division has ;little or no knowlege what the other division does.
>>
>>
>
>Which ultimately results in mistakes that were made and corrected years ago
>will now be repeated.

Not when they no longer have the people left who know how to repair
their own propriatary systems. They may not last long enough to make
them again.

One big company developed some very large propritary systems. Then one
day they discovered that they had let go everyone who knew how to fix
and maintain them. It was to the point where oursourcing wouldn't
work as it'd take many months for the outside help to even learn those
systems.

I know the players<:-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

>
>
>Bob Reed
>www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
>KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
>
>"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
>pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
>(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[RobertR237]

In article >, Roger Halstead
> writes:

>
>Not when they no longer have the people left who know how to repair
>their own propriatary systems. They may not last long enough to make
>them again.
>
>One big company developed some very large propritary systems. Then one
>day they discovered that they had let go everyone who knew how to fix
>and maintain them. It was to the point where oursourcing wouldn't
>work as it'd take many months for the outside help to even learn those
>systems.
>
>I know the players<:-))
>
>Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
>www.rogerhalstead.com
>N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>

I was let go the first of January along with all other contractors at the
company I was working with. The primary system used for company operations was
being entirely maintained by contractors. The only people who knew anything
about the internals of the system are now gone and they don't have anybody left
who knows any of it. Especially the base software (Entera) that was used as
the framework for the 3-tier system. It is going to cost them 20 million to
replace it and they be forced to do so since they can't maintain it any longer.


REAL SMART decision to save a few bucks.

Sounds like the same story but different company.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[clare @ snyder.on .ca]

On 28 Aug 2003 14:10:04 GMT, (RobertR237)
wrote:


>REAL SMART decision to save a few bucks.
>
>Sounds like the same story but different company.
>
>
A little bit like that old TV show -" X# of people in the city of New
York, and each has a story"

Devide the number of publicly traded companies with more than 20
employees by half, and you're getting close to the number of stories
that will be told over the next 5 years or so.
You now the old expression "same S---, different pile?"

The main cause of the demise of American companies (particularly
manufacturing) is NOT offshore competition, it is gross mismanagement.
The mismanagement makes them vulnerable to the competition.

>Bob Reed
>www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
>KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
>
>"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
>pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
>(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Roger Halstead]

On Thu, 28 Aug 2003 17:54:46 GMT, clare @ snyder.on .ca wrote:

>On 28 Aug 2003 14:10:04 GMT, (RobertR237)
>wrote:
>
>
>>REAL SMART decision to save a few bucks.
>>
>>Sounds like the same story but different company.
>>
>>
>A little bit like that old TV show -" X# of people in the city of New
>York, and each has a story"
>
>Devide the number of publicly traded companies with more than 20
>employees by half, and you're getting close to the number of stories
>that will be told over the next 5 years or so.
>You now the old expression "same S---, different pile?"
>
>The main cause of the demise of American companies (particularly
>manufacturing) is NOT offshore competition, it is gross mismanagement.
>The mismanagement makes them vulnerable to the competition.

And much higher efficiency from the ones with management.

Production is up about 10% since 1997 while jobs are down by 15%.
according to the stats released by the federal reserve.

However as we've seen in some instances the payback is on the way for
those who took the short term gains from down sizing a bit too
seriously at the expense of long term gains.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

>
>>Bob Reed
>>www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
>>KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....
>>
>>"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
>>pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
>>(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Eric Miller]

> Now come on, you are failing to show proper respect for all those Harvard
> Business School Grads.
>
> Bob Reed

The question is... Did Harvard graduate them or let them go because it was
more cost effective than teaching them?

[RobertR237]

In article >, "Eric Miller"
> writes:

>
>> It is going to cost them 20 million to replace it and they be forced to do
>so since they can't maintain it any longer.
>>
>> Bob Reed
>
>But for a mere $20 million they were able to save THOUSANDS of dollars!
>
>Eric
>
>

Yep but even the $20 million might end up being a lowball figure. I forgot
that the company has eliminated all of the older experienced people in
operations and accounting who had any understanding of how things work. Now
all they have are pencil pushers who know how to input to the current system
but don't understand the structure of either the system or the business. It
may not matter too much though, they are selling off most of their assets as
fast as possible anyway. At the rate they are going, they won't need a system
of any kind in another couple of years.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Corrie]

> However as we've seen in some instances the payback is on the way for
> those who took the short term gains from down sizing a bit too
> seriously at the expense of long term gains.

Unfortunately, the chickens have not yet come home to roost. There
was a study released this week on CEO pay at the layoff kings.
Searched news.google for "CEO pay layoff" and found this from
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/136574_ceopay26.html


=======quoted news article==========
....new report from the Institute for Policy Studies and United for a
Fair Economy. Their 10th annual Labor Day report finds that:

Average CEO pay rose 44 percent in 2002 at the 50 firms with the most
layoffs during the 2001 recession, even though CEO pay overall was up
just 6 percent in Business Week's 53rd annual executive-pay survey.

The typical CEO made $3.7 million last year compared with $5.1 million
for layoff leaders.

Boeing Co. Chairman and Chief Executive Phil Condit was paid $3.9
million in 2002, even as the airline industry suffered through the
second year of the worst downturn in commercial aviation history with
Boeing announcing cuts of more than 35,000 jobs since the downturn
began.

PC maker Hewlett-Packard had 25,700 announced layoffs in 2001 at the
tech contraction's height and a 2002 pay package totaling $4.1 million
for chief executive officer Carly Fiorina.

They weren't the highest-paid, however.

Topping the layoff list was Dennis Kozlowski, who pocketed $71 million
from Tyco International in 2002 before being forced out midyear.

Before his indictment on charges he evaded $1 million in sales tax on
fine art purchases, Tyco and Kozlowski announced layoffs in 2001 for
11,300.

Top executives pocketed an average $5.9 million compensation package
in 2002 at the 30 companies with the largest deficits in pension plans
-- collectively totaling $131 billion at the end of 2002, based on UBS
Securities pension-underfunding tallies.

Those paychecks were 59 percent higher than the average $3.7 million
paid to CEOs at Business Week's 365 largest companies.

General Motors, which led the problem pension list, paid $6.2 million
compensation to CEO G. Richard Wagoner Jr. in 2002, based on
Securities and Exchange Commission filings. GM has since covered its
pension shortfall by floating $17 billion in corporate bonds, which
eventually must be redeemed.

==========end quoted article============

[Eric Miller]

"Corrie" wrote
> Topping the layoff list was Dennis Kozlowski, who pocketed $71 million
> from Tyco International in 2002 before being forced out midyear.
>
> Before his indictment on charges he evaded $1 million in sales tax on
> fine art purchases, Tyco and Kozlowski announced layoffs in 2001 for
> 11,300.

So he made close to $6,300 for each person he laid off? Amazing. Sickening,
but amazing.

I'd like to say that corporation that take a bottom line approach will get
what they deserve.
Unfortunately, corporations aren't people, and the people who are hurt are
the workers, their families, and the entire economy due to cascade effects.

It used to be that the pay ratio of the lowest paid worker to the highest
paid member of the board was 20 to 1.
Frankly, I think anything above that is criminal. Even if I were offered the
20+ level, I couldn't rationalize it or accept it with a clear conscience. I
guess scruples will keep me from heading a major corporation in the
forseeable future.

Eric

[Roger Halstead]

On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 13:43:07 GMT, "Eric Miller" >
wrote:

>> It is going to cost them 20 million to replace it and they be forced to do
>so since they can't maintain it any longer.
>>
>> Bob Reed
>
>But for a mere $20 million they were able to save THOUSANDS of dollars!

I know a family who shop like that.

They will drive 40 miles round trip to save $5 on a $10 item.
To top it off they are very well educated people who you would think
would know better.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

>
>Eric
>

[RobertR237]

In article >, Barnyard BOb --
> writes:

>>
>>They will drive 40 miles round trip to save $5 on a $10 item.
>>To top it off they are very well educated people who you would think
>>would know better.
>>
>>Roger Halstead
>>N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>That's nothing, Roger.
>
>I know of a pilot that likely spends more than $100
>to purchase a $5 hamburger flying his old Debonair.
>
>How educated does this appear to be? <g>
>
>

What the hell is wrong with that?


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Roger Halstead]

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 05:00:22 -0500, Barnyard BOb -- >
wrote:

>
>
>>>But for a mere $20 million they were able to save THOUSANDS of dollars!
>>
>>I know a family who shop like that.
>>
>>They will drive 40 miles round trip to save $5 on a $10 item.
>>To top it off they are very well educated people who you would think
>>would know better.
>>
>>Roger Halstead
>>N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>That's nothing, Roger.
>
>I know of a pilot that likely spends more than $100
>to purchase a $5 hamburger flying his old Debonair.

Welll.. the big difference is one does it for enjoyment (avocation)
The other does it to save money. <:-))
>
>How educated does this appear to be? <g>
>
Pretty well up the ladder. They say your the expense of your tastes
goes up with education.... the way mine have gone I should have about
4 PHDs....OTOH when I started on the Masters, I found those people and
I speak a different language. Their definition of not much math
required and mine are quite different....and I at least have a minor
in math. I have one in art (photography) too, and I'm one whale of a
lot better artist than I am mathematician.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

>
>Barnyard BOb - $50 hamburgers our specialty

[Barnyard BOb --]

>>>They will drive 40 miles round trip to save $5 on a $10 item.
>>>To top it off they are very well educated people who you would think
>>>would know better.
>>>
>>>Roger Halstead
>>>N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)
>>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>
>>That's nothing, Roger.
>>
>>I know of a pilot that likely spends more than $100
>>to purchase a $5 hamburger flying his old Debonair.
>
>Welll.. the big difference is one does it for enjoyment (avocation)
>The other does it to save money. <:-))
>
>Roger Halstead
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Roger, I'd have to guess that anyone that is educated that
drives 40 miles round trip to save $5 on a $10 item is
doing it for as much enjoyment and entertainment as you
get from spending $100 flying for a $5 hamburger.

Even if you ask these folks WHY and they say... MONEY,
they are not telling you the whole unadultered truth.

How do I know?
Don't axe. <g>


Barnyard BOb --

[RobertR237]

In article >, Barnyard BOb --
> writes:

>
>Roger, I'd have to guess that anyone that is educated that
>drives 40 miles round trip to save $5 on a $10 item is
>doing it for as much enjoyment and entertainment as you
>get from spending $100 flying for a $5 hamburger.
>
>Even if you ask these folks WHY and they say... MONEY,
>they are not telling you the whole unadultered truth.
>
>How do I know?
>Don't axe. <g>
>
>
>Barnyard BOb --
>
>

I know for certain that is the case with my wife and even more so with my
daughter. They live to shop. My daughers first full sentence was "Just
charge it".


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Corrie]

"Eric Miller" > wrote in message >...
> "Corrie" wrote
> > Topping the layoff list was Dennis Kozlowski, who pocketed $71 million
> > from Tyco International in 2002 before being forced out midyear.
> >
> > Before his indictment on charges he evaded $1 million in sales tax on
> > fine art purchases, Tyco and Kozlowski announced layoffs in 2001 for
> > 11,300.
>
> So he made close to $6,300 for each person he laid off? Amazing. Sickening,
> but amazing.
>
> I'd like to say that corporation that take a bottom line approach will get
> what they deserve.

Makes you want to belive in karma, or something like it, eh? ;-)

> Unfortunately, corporations aren't people, and the people who are hurt are
> the workers, their families, and the entire economy due to cascade effects.

All too true.

> It used to be that the pay ratio of the lowest paid worker to the highest
> paid member of the board was 20 to 1.
> Frankly, I think anything above that is criminal. Even if I were offered the
> 20+ level, I couldn't rationalize it or accept it with a clear conscience. I
> guess scruples will keep me from heading a major corporation in the
> forseeable future.

I was about to say, "yer a better man that I am, Gunga Din!" because
being human, I can rationalize damn near anything. Then I stopped to
wonder - is this another one of those "my house is a blue duck"
statements that's safe to make because it's highly unlikely? <WGDR>

Corrie ;-^

[Eric Miller]

"Corrie" > wrote in message
om...
> "Eric Miller" > wrote in message
>...
> > "Corrie" wrote
> > > Topping the layoff list was Dennis Kozlowski, who pocketed $71 million
> > > from Tyco International in 2002 before being forced out midyear.
> > >
> > > Before his indictment on charges he evaded $1 million in sales tax on
> > > fine art purchases, Tyco and Kozlowski announced layoffs in 2001 for
> > > 11,300.
> >
> > So he made close to $6,300 for each person he laid off? Amazing.
Sickening,
> > but amazing.
> >
> > I'd like to say that corporation that take a bottom line approach will
get
> > what they deserve.
>
> Makes you want to belive in karma, or something like it, eh? ;-)
>
> > Unfortunately, corporations aren't people, and the people who are hurt
are
> > the workers, their families, and the entire economy due to cascade
effects.
>
> All too true.
>
> > It used to be that the pay ratio of the lowest paid worker to the
highest
> > paid member of the board was 20 to 1.
> > Frankly, I think anything above that is criminal. Even if I were offered
the
> > 20+ level, I couldn't rationalize it or accept it with a clear
conscience. I
> > guess scruples will keep me from heading a major corporation in the
> > forseeable future.
>
> I was about to say, "yer a better man that I am, Gunga Din!" because
> being human, I can rationalize damn near anything. Then I stopped to
> wonder - is this another one of those "my house is a blue duck"
> statements that's safe to make because it's highly unlikely? <WGDR>
>
> Corrie ;-^