Why there will be no resolution to the yEnc war.

[Just Plane Noise[_2_]]

I'm going to try to sum up what I've learned in the discussions (?) of
yEnc and in my reading.

Against yEnc:

After reading Jeremy Nixon's anti-yEnc arguments, I can see that the
real problem is not that yEnc isn't an improvement, but rather that it
was not enough of an improvement over UU and didn't even attempt to
solve some of its problems. Nixon was worried that it had already
become the new standard 5 years ago. I can see his point--sometimes
people settle for what is at best a partial fix to a given problem,
and then effort is diverted away from seeking a more thorough fix
(this is actually a common problem in the big organizations where I've
spent my career--people "settle")..

yEnc's improvement is big or small, depending on what you're posting.
For the relatively small jpegs posted here, a 30% reduction in size by
using yEnc doesn't amount to much in absolute terms. For an MP3 such
as I posted in multimedia aviation, 30% amounts to much more, and for
a big AVI, 30% would be quite a lot. That's why yEnc is dominant in
the multimedia and audio groups. But in a still photo group, the
pro-yEnc folks can't claim that yEnc has much practical superiority.

Of course, as some have noted, even a little means something to
somebody with dial-up, or download restrictions, and I don't want to
be the classicallyy arrogant American who ignores the fact that access
isn't the same everywhere. (As an aside, that makes me wonder how we
look to other countries such as Japan, that have MUCH faster
broadband--in terms of broadband, we stand about the same as we do in
rail passenger transportation--far, far from the leading nations.)

For yEnc:

Even though it is only a little improvement, yEnc is unquestionably an
improvement in terms of encoded file size. It costs little or nothing
to get yEnc decoding ability, it requires no technical expertise, and
it does not require a hardware upgrade of any kind. Consequently,
the price paid for a little improvement is a little price.

(By the way, if Nixon's arguments were taken seriously, what would
replace UU is something that would REALLY make the anti-yEnc crowd
shriek, although it would also represent much more of an improvement
over UU--her agrues for an upgraded version of MIME encoding.)

Finally, arguments that reference "the standard" or "guidelines" in an
unmoderated group lacking any charter will never gain any traction.
I've been on both sides of those kinds of arguments, and I can tell
you what happened in every last instance.

______________

So it comes down to this: one side says "why post in yEnc, the
improvement is not so great' while the other says "you're free to add
yEnc encoding, and the cost is little or nothing." Neither side has
anything even approaching a slam-dunk argument. yEnc is NOT so
clearly superior that everyone should get yEnc decoding ability.
Adding yEnc decoding ability is NOT so costly or difficult that it
unreasonably blocks people from viewing files.

That's why there will be no resolution--the arguments are weak on both
sides. That's why it can only remain a choice. Live and let live--
the lesson they have yet to learn in the Middle East.

That's my position. Don acknowledged that I never told anyone to
leave. In fact, I never told anyone to do anything (although a few
were pleased to tell me what to do). I'll tell you what you COULD do
if you CHOSE, but that's about it. In turn, if somebody chose a new
method of encoding, and I knew their pictures were worthwhile, I'd
expect to do a little work to get their pictures--it isn't up to them
to change to suit me. They already did the work of taking, editing,
and posting the pictures, so I'm not going to moan about having to do
something new to get them. I've had to learn lots of things in the
microcomputer age, but it is just the price of getting the goodies the
age has to offer so I am not complaining one bit. As a
very-near-geezer I'm still awestruck by such things as the fact that
I've seen thousands of cool aircraft photos FOR FREE, IN MY OWN HOME!
Wowee! Is that cool or what? How I wish all this stuff had been
available when I was a kid! Then maybe I wouldn't have painted my
Corsair model pink with yellow stripes! (Kidding!!!)

[Dave LaCourse]

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:24:45 -0500, Just Plane Noise
> wrote:

>In turn, if somebody chose a new
>method of encoding, and I knew their pictures were worthwhile, I'd
>expect to do a little work to get their pictures--it isn't up to them
>to change to suit me.

Bravo. Well said. What people are missing by refusing to down-load
yenc software or getting a better newsreader are some wonderful
pictures taken by you. I for one do not care what format you post in,
but if you change to a different format, I will ensure that I *can*
down-load your pics, whatever it takes. Your work is very, very good.
Thanks.

Dave

[JRW]

Dave LaCourse wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:24:45 -0500, Just Plane Noise
> > wrote:
>
>> In turn, if somebody chose a new
>> method of encoding, and I knew their pictures were worthwhile, I'd
>> expect to do a little work to get their pictures--it isn't up to them
>> to change to suit me.
>
> Bravo. Well said. What people are missing by refusing to down-load
> yenc software or getting a better newsreader are some wonderful
> pictures taken by you. I for one do not care what format you post in,
> but if you change to a different format, I will ensure that I *can*
> down-load your pics, whatever it takes. Your work is very, very good.
> Thanks.
>
> Dave
>
>
I use xnews to download multiple files. It automatically decodes Yenc
with out doing a thing. I also use it to download other multiple files.
So there is no argument as far as I see it.

Don't want to download a Yenc file...simple don't

I don't post in Yenc, so no room for anyone to say I'm supporting it either.

But if you really want the files, then the writing is on the wall.

Simple.

[Just Plane Noise[_2_]]

On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 17:35:11 -0400, Dave LaCourse
> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:24:45 -0500, Just Plane Noise
> wrote:
>
>>In turn, if somebody chose a new
>>method of encoding, and I knew their pictures were worthwhile, I'd
>>expect to do a little work to get their pictures--it isn't up to them
>>to change to suit me.
>
>Bravo. Well said. What people are missing by refusing to down-load
>yenc software or getting a better newsreader are some wonderful
>pictures taken by you. I for one do not care what format you post in,
>but if you change to a different format, I will ensure that I *can*
>down-load your pics, whatever it takes. Your work is very, very good.
>Thanks.
>


Thanks! Someone (maybe you) said I was either a good pro or an
outstanding amateur. I'm sort of neither. I was the
paid photo editor of the school newspaper of a major (30,000 students)
university. I used a Nikon F, a Weston Ranger 9 meter, and developed
and printed all of my own work, so it was a different era, but I did
learn plenty about light and shadow as well as other basics of
photography. At about the same time I also worked for a wedding
photographer (back then it was very boring--much more creative these
days), shooting weddings without any assistance. I learned to be
resourceful, but above all I learned to react fast and to be ready to
react fast (candid photography teaches you that real quick!). I got
out of photography for awhile because of my heavy involvement in pro
audio, but what brought be back in was the fact that I married a woman
whose brother is a fairly noted fashion photographer. He always finds
fault with my pictures, but as a result I've learned one helluva lot,
especially about light. And since photography only involves two
things--light and pointing (oops--forgot luck!)-learning more about
light was very important.

[Hub Plott III]

Actually it is very simple. When this NG was established one of the "rules"
was no yenc,plain and simple. Either you choose to follow the rules or not,
no skin off my nose either way. I have downloaded two free yEnc decoders and
neither have worked worth a damn but at least I tried. As I have broadband,
downloading useless posts does not create a problem; for those for whom it
does they can just block your posts and problem solved.It is not that hard
to work it out either way.
FWIW
"Just Plane Noise" > wrote in message
...
> I'm going to try to sum up what I've learned in the discussions (?) of
> yEnc and in my reading.
>
> Against yEnc:
>
> After reading Jeremy Nixon's anti-yEnc arguments, I can see that the
> real problem is not that yEnc isn't an improvement, but rather that it
> was not enough of an improvement over UU and didn't even attempt to
> solve some of its problems. Nixon was worried that it had already
> become the new standard 5 years ago. I can see his point--sometimes
> people settle for what is at best a partial fix to a given problem,
> and then effort is diverted away from seeking a more thorough fix
> (this is actually a common problem in the big organizations where I've
> spent my career--people "settle")..
>
> yEnc's improvement is big or small, depending on what you're posting.
> For the relatively small jpegs posted here, a 30% reduction in size by
> using yEnc doesn't amount to much in absolute terms. For an MP3 such
> as I posted in multimedia aviation, 30% amounts to much more, and for
> a big AVI, 30% would be quite a lot. That's why yEnc is dominant in
> the multimedia and audio groups. But in a still photo group, the
> pro-yEnc folks can't claim that yEnc has much practical superiority.
>
> Of course, as some have noted, even a little means something to
> somebody with dial-up, or download restrictions, and I don't want to
> be the classicallyy arrogant American who ignores the fact that access
> isn't the same everywhere. (As an aside, that makes me wonder how we
> look to other countries such as Japan, that have MUCH faster
> broadband--in terms of broadband, we stand about the same as we do in
> rail passenger transportation--far, far from the leading nations.)
>
> For yEnc:
>
> Even though it is only a little improvement, yEnc is unquestionably an
> improvement in terms of encoded file size. It costs little or nothing
> to get yEnc decoding ability, it requires no technical expertise, and
> it does not require a hardware upgrade of any kind. Consequently,
> the price paid for a little improvement is a little price.
>
> (By the way, if Nixon's arguments were taken seriously, what would
> replace UU is something that would REALLY make the anti-yEnc crowd
> shriek, although it would also represent much more of an improvement
> over UU--her agrues for an upgraded version of MIME encoding.)
>
> Finally, arguments that reference "the standard" or "guidelines" in an
> unmoderated group lacking any charter will never gain any traction.
> I've been on both sides of those kinds of arguments, and I can tell
> you what happened in every last instance.
>
> ______________
>
> So it comes down to this: one side says "why post in yEnc, the
> improvement is not so great' while the other says "you're free to add
> yEnc encoding, and the cost is little or nothing." Neither side has
> anything even approaching a slam-dunk argument. yEnc is NOT so
> clearly superior that everyone should get yEnc decoding ability.
> Adding yEnc decoding ability is NOT so costly or difficult that it
> unreasonably blocks people from viewing files.
>
> That's why there will be no resolution--the arguments are weak on both
> sides. That's why it can only remain a choice. Live and let live--
> the lesson they have yet to learn in the Middle East.
>
> That's my position. Don acknowledged that I never told anyone to
> leave. In fact, I never told anyone to do anything (although a few
> were pleased to tell me what to do). I'll tell you what you COULD do
> if you CHOSE, but that's about it. In turn, if somebody chose a new
> method of encoding, and I knew their pictures were worthwhile, I'd
> expect to do a little work to get their pictures--it isn't up to them
> to change to suit me. They already did the work of taking, editing,
> and posting the pictures, so I'm not going to moan about having to do
> something new to get them. I've had to learn lots of things in the
> microcomputer age, but it is just the price of getting the goodies the
> age has to offer so I am not complaining one bit. As a
> very-near-geezer I'm still awestruck by such things as the fact that
> I've seen thousands of cool aircraft photos FOR FREE, IN MY OWN HOME!
> Wowee! Is that cool or what? How I wish all this stuff had been
> available when I was a kid! Then maybe I wouldn't have painted my
> Corsair model pink with yellow stripes! (Kidding!!!)

[Bert-Jan[_5_]]

>
Major snippage
>

Very well said!

--
Cheers,

Bert-Jan

[Dave LaCourse]

On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 18:34:46 -0400, "Hub Plott III"
> wrote:

>When this NG was established one of the "rules"
>was no yenc,plain and simple.

This is a non-moderated newsgroup. You can make "suggestions", but
not rules. It's usenet, not YOURnet.

Dave

[Don Pyeatt]

"Just Plane Noise" > wrote in message
...
> I'm going to try to sum up what I've learned in the discussions (?) of
> yEnc and in my reading.
>
> Against yEnc:
>
> After reading Jeremy Nixon's anti-yEnc arguments, I can see that the
> real problem is not that yEnc isn't an improvement, but rather that it
> was not enough of an improvement over UU and didn't even attempt to
> solve some of its problems. Nixon was worried that it had already
> become the new standard 5 years ago. I can see his point--sometimes
> people settle for what is at best a partial fix to a given problem,
> and then effort is diverted away from seeking a more thorough fix
> (this is actually a common problem in the big organizations where I've
> spent my career--people "settle")..
>
> yEnc's improvement is big or small, depending on what you're posting.
> For the relatively small jpegs posted here, a 30% reduction in size by
> using yEnc doesn't amount to much in absolute terms. For an MP3 such
> as I posted in multimedia aviation, 30% amounts to much more, and for
> a big AVI, 30% would be quite a lot. That's why yEnc is dominant in
> the multimedia and audio groups. But in a still photo group, the
> pro-yEnc folks can't claim that yEnc has much practical superiority.
>
> Of course, as some have noted, even a little means something to
> somebody with dial-up, or download restrictions, and I don't want to
> be the classicallyy arrogant American who ignores the fact that access
> isn't the same everywhere. (As an aside, that makes me wonder how we
> look to other countries such as Japan, that have MUCH faster
> broadband--in terms of broadband, we stand about the same as we do in
> rail passenger transportation--far, far from the leading nations.)
>
> For yEnc:
>
> Even though it is only a little improvement, yEnc is unquestionably an
> improvement in terms of encoded file size. It costs little or nothing
> to get yEnc decoding ability, it requires no technical expertise, and
> it does not require a hardware upgrade of any kind. Consequently,
> the price paid for a little improvement is a little price.
>
> (By the way, if Nixon's arguments were taken seriously, what would
> replace UU is something that would REALLY make the anti-yEnc crowd
> shriek, although it would also represent much more of an improvement
> over UU--her agrues for an upgraded version of MIME encoding.)
>
> Finally, arguments that reference "the standard" or "guidelines" in an
> unmoderated group lacking any charter will never gain any traction.
> I've been on both sides of those kinds of arguments, and I can tell
> you what happened in every last instance.
>
> ______________
>
> So it comes down to this: one side says "why post in yEnc, the
> improvement is not so great' while the other says "you're free to add
> yEnc encoding, and the cost is little or nothing." Neither side has
> anything even approaching a slam-dunk argument. yEnc is NOT so
> clearly superior that everyone should get yEnc decoding ability.
> Adding yEnc decoding ability is NOT so costly or difficult that it
> unreasonably blocks people from viewing files.
>
> That's why there will be no resolution--the arguments are weak on both
> sides. That's why it can only remain a choice. Live and let live--
> the lesson they have yet to learn in the Middle East.
>
> That's my position. Don acknowledged that I never told anyone to
> leave. In fact, I never told anyone to do anything (although a few
> were pleased to tell me what to do). I'll tell you what you COULD do
> if you CHOSE, but that's about it. In turn, if somebody chose a new
> method of encoding, and I knew their pictures were worthwhile, I'd
> expect to do a little work to get their pictures--it isn't up to them
> to change to suit me. They already did the work of taking, editing,
> and posting the pictures, so I'm not going to moan about having to do
> something new to get them. I've had to learn lots of things in the
> microcomputer age, but it is just the price of getting the goodies the
> age has to offer so I am not complaining one bit. As a
> very-near-geezer I'm still awestruck by such things as the fact that
> I've seen thousands of cool aircraft photos FOR FREE, IN MY OWN HOME!
> Wowee! Is that cool or what? How I wish all this stuff had been
> available when I was a kid! Then maybe I wouldn't have painted my
> Corsair model pink with yellow stripes! (Kidding!!!)


Noise, it really is refreshing to see an objective discourse from you - keep
it up!

But I've said before this is not a technical issue, it's a social issue.
All the harangue is what happens when a bunch of old geezers start behaving
a bunch of old coots.

gdp

[Hub Plott III]

Hence the "" around the word rules! Read the post,understand the post, don't
knee jerk to the post! no complaints just info! No one said it was YOURnet
or my net! And any assumptions by you ,me or anyone else to that point are
crap. JPN said it well, it does suck for those with limited download
allowances and such but it is just as easy to get a decoder( one that works
with outlook express would be nice) or simply block those senders who post
in yEnc if you don't want those posts downloaded rather than launce into a
huge name calling bitch fight on both sides of the issue. JPN posted a well
thought and written discussion but it really over complicates the matter. I
was attempting to cut it down to the simple
"Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 18:34:46 -0400, "Hub Plott III"
> > wrote:
>
>>When this NG was established one of the "rules"
>>was no yenc,plain and simple.
>
> This is a non-moderated newsgroup. You can make "suggestions", but
> not rules. It's usenet, not YOURnet.
>
> Dave
>
>

[Hub Plott III]

No, just a way to cut out the bitchin'! If you don't like yEnc posts then
just block those guys that post in that format aand your problem is solved.
It is much simpler and better that everyone taking sides and rantng the pros
and cons! Like I said the format does not bother me if it opens; great! If
not I move on to the next post.One day I will find some freeware that works
well with Outlook express then I can enjoy JPN and others postings!
"Clark" > wrote in message
...
> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Actually it is very simple. When this NG was established one of the
>> "rules" was no yenc,plain and simple. Either you choose to follow the
>> rules or not, no skin off my nose either way. I have downloaded two free
>> yEnc decoders and neither have worked worth a damn but at least I tried.
>> As I have broadband, downloading useless posts does not create a
>> problem; for those for whom it does they can just block your posts and
>> problem solved.It is not that hard to work it out either way.
>> FWIW
>
>
> Progress should be avoided at all costs...
>
> --
> ---
> there should be a "sig" here

[P50[_2_]]

If someone posts in a format I can't view I decide from there what I want to
do.
Make some changes so I can or don't so I can not. Not that hard really.

In the end I just want to see pictures.

[russell[_2_]]

Same with me...


"Hub Plott III" > wrote in message
...
> Actually it is very simple. When this NG was established one of the
> "rules" was no yenc,plain and simple. Either you choose to follow the
> rules or not, no skin off my nose either way. I have downloaded two free
> yEnc decoders and neither have worked worth a damn but at least I tried.
> As I have broadband, downloading useless posts does not create a problem;
> for those for whom it does they can just block your posts and problem
> solved.It is not that hard to work it out either way.
> FWIW
> "

[Glenn[_2_]]

"Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:24:45 -0500, Just Plane Noise
> > wrote:
>
>>In turn, if somebody chose a new
>>method of encoding, and I knew their pictures were worthwhile, I'd
>>expect to do a little work to get their pictures--it isn't up to them
>>to change to suit me.
>
> Bravo. Well said. What people are missing by refusing to down-load
> yenc software or getting a better newsreader are some wonderful
> pictures taken by you. I for one do not care what format you post in,
> but if you change to a different format, I will ensure that I *can*
> down-load your pics, whatever it takes. Your work is very, very good.
> Thanks.
>
can't say I would. But then I already have at my disposal some multiple
websites that one can view
images at without jumping through hoops.
I must be missing something as the images I have seen from plane Noise are
OK, but not worth jumping through hoops for.
And I don;t expect that mine would be either, I shoot for a particular
market only, I don't see why I would force people to
try and view them.
And this yenc crap. I can't view all the bloody images all the time anyway
;-)

[Glenn[_2_]]

"P50" > wrote in message
...
> If someone posts in a format I can't view I decide from there what I want
> to do.
> Make some changes so I can or don't so I can not. Not that hard really.
>
> In the end I just want to see pictures.
The only issue that I have with Yenc is that it is generally flooded into
the newsgroup.
Which sort of then nullifies the bandwidth issue that they use :-)

I generally view one or two of the posts at random but generally find myself
moving onto the non yenc photos.
I don't know why but tehy all sort of seem to be the same images only the
time is different ;-)

[Hub Plott III]

Then you misinterpreted it! No problem. I am neither for or against and
really don't care. But on the FAQ it does plainly state "Please refrain from
posting in formats such as yEnc"There not so much rules as merely
guidelines......( obvious Pirates of the Caribbean ref.) But it is obvious
most folks here do care one way or the other with most not in favor of
yEnc.Just trying to get some of the rancor down . Remids me of the whole
VHS/Beta or BlueRay/HDDVD thing....
"Clark" > wrote in message
...
> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in
> :
>
>> No, just a way to cut out the bitchin'! If you don't like yEnc posts
>> then just block those guys that post in that format aand your problem is
>> solved. It is much simpler and better that everyone taking sides and
>> rantng the pros and cons! Like I said the format does not bother me if
>> it opens; great! If not I move on to the next post.One day I will find
>> some freeware that works well with Outlook express then I can enjoy JPN
>> and others postings! "Clark" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Actually it is very simple. When this NG was established one of the
>>>> "rules" was no yenc,plain and simple. Either you choose to follow the
>>>> rules or not, no skin off my nose either way. I have downloaded two
>>>> free yEnc decoders and neither have worked worth a damn but at least I
>>>> tried. As I have broadband, downloading useless posts does not create
>>>> a problem; for those for whom it does they can just block your posts
>>>> and problem solved.It is not that hard to work it out either way.
>>>> FWIW
>>>
>>>
>>> Progress should be avoided at all costs...
>>>
>>> --
> Then why preach about non-existant "rules"? It sure sounded like an anti-
> post to me.
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> there should be a "sig" here

[Hub Plott III]

Clark:
What I care about is the constant bitching(yes I know we are adding to
that), it detracts from the pics and to suggest, suggest mind you that if we
all followed the guidelines there would be less bitching here(until the next
crisis arose).And it is not anti to post what is set up as guidelines for
all.Both sides can be selfish " don't you dare post in that format I can't
read it" or "I'll post in whatever I damn well please" No-one HAS to follow
the guidelines as no one can make them or do anything to them . So rather
than repeat this bitchfest every couple of months I am suggesting that for
everyone's blood pressure either get a yEnc decoder or killfile those who
post in yEnc rather than bitch about it. Either way it alleviates the
individuals problem one way or the other. I don't find yEnc better or easier
when it comes to pics but as JPN pointed out with multimedia posts it comes
in very handy. Your top posting comments were exactly in line with what I
was saying with VHS/Beta and such.
Now check out my posting on airshow shots and enjoy some nice aircraft pics.
Hub
"Clark" > wrote in message
...
> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Then you misinterpreted it! No problem. I am neither for or against and
>> really don't care. But on the FAQ it does plainly state "Please refrain
>> from posting in formats such as yEnc"There not so much rules as merely
>> guidelines......( obvious Pirates of the Caribbean ref.) But it is
>> obvious most folks here do care one way or the other with most not in
>> favor of yEnc.Just trying to get some of the rancor down . Remids me of
>> the whole VHS/Beta or BlueRay/HDDVD thing....
>
> Hmmm, it still sounds anti. Perhaps I misinterpret it, perhaps not. If you
> really don't care then why post? How can the rancor possibly bother you?
>
> Pro- and anti-yEnc arguments are just like top- and bottom-posting
> arguments:
> pointless because people are going to do whatever they want. If you post
> about then it is obvious that you care. It's pointless to claim otherwise.
>
> --
> ---
> there should be a "sig" here

[Hub Plott III]

No, you just don't get it and there is no explaining it to you at least to
your ability to comprehend.There is no contradiction at all as it would be
more harmonious if all followed the guidelines but since it won't happen
just get a decoder or killfile the ones that post in formats that cause you
displeasure There it can't be any more clearer but I won't be surprised if
you still don't interpret it correctly.There is most certainly no "do as I
say not as I do". But further discussion is pointless.Good luck and good day
sir!
"Clark" > wrote in message
...
> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in
> :
>
>> Clark:
>> What I care about is the constant bitching(yes I know we are adding to
>> that), it detracts from the pics and to suggest, suggest mind you that
>> if we all followed the guidelines there would be less bitching
>> here(until the next crisis arose).And it is not anti to post what is set
>> up as guidelines for all.Both sides can be selfish " don't you dare post
>> in that format I can't read it" or "I'll post in whatever I damn well
>> please" No-one HAS to follow the guidelines as no one can make them or
>> do anything to them . So rather than repeat this bitchfest every couple
>> of months I am suggesting that for everyone's blood pressure either get
>> a yEnc decoder or killfile those who post in yEnc rather than bitch
>> about it. Either way it alleviates the individuals problem one way or
>> the other. I don't find yEnc better or easier when it comes to pics but
>> as JPN pointed out with multimedia posts it comes in very handy. Your
>> top posting comments were exactly in line with what I was saying with
>> VHS/Beta and such. Now check out my posting on airshow shots and enjoy
>> some nice aircraft pics. Hub
>
> You are a posting contradiction. You claim to not be anti yet you
> "suggest" that folks don't post in yEnc. That is anti, no if's and's or
> but's. The canard about bitching is transparent since it is easier to
> ignore bitching than it is to view it.
>
> At the same time you are suggesting that people follow guidelines you are
> ignoring other guidelines. Incredible. The old "do as I say and not as I
> do" will get you nowhere.
>
>> "Clark" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Then you misinterpreted it! No problem. I am neither for or against
>>>> and really don't care. But on the FAQ it does plainly state "Please
>>>> refrain from posting in formats such as yEnc"There not so much rules
>>>> as merely guidelines......( obvious Pirates of the Caribbean ref.) But
>>>> it is obvious most folks here do care one way or the other with most
>>>> not in favor of yEnc.Just trying to get some of the rancor down .
>>>> Remids me of the whole VHS/Beta or BlueRay/HDDVD thing....
>>>
>>> Hmmm, it still sounds anti. Perhaps I misinterpret it, perhaps not. If
>>> you really don't care then why post? How can the rancor possibly bother
>>> you?
>>>
>>> Pro- and anti-yEnc arguments are just like top- and bottom-posting
>>> arguments:
>>> pointless because people are going to do whatever they want. If you
>>> post about then it is obvious that you care. It's pointless to claim
>>> otherwise.
>>>
>>> --
>>> ---
>>> there should be a "sig" here
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ---
> there should be a "sig" here

[Hub Plott III]

As I posted those comments I KNOW what they mean you only THINK you know
what I meant and it is the height of arrogance to assume you know better
than I do what I meant by what I said. Your passion,love or zealotry for
yEnc has rendered you incapable of seeing through your own rhetoric or you
just love a good argument(nothing wrong with that) So here it is so even
you might be able to grasp it
yEnc is fine. Use it if you like. If you don't like yEnc then block those
who post in it or if you are willing to try it get a decoder( directions to
one that actually works well with Outlook Express would be most useful) but
quit bitchin about yEnc's pros and cons here.Problem solved! I merely said
IF everyone followed the guidelines this place would run smoother but as
both you AND I said no one is going to. Now kindly go have a beer and relax,
I plan to do the same! Enjoy the pic!
"Clark" > wrote in message
...
> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in
> :
>
>> No, you just don't get it and there is no explaining it to you at least
>> to your ability to comprehend.There is no contradiction at all as it
>> would be more harmonious if all followed the guidelines but since it
>> won't happen just get a decoder or killfile the ones that post in
>> formats that cause you displeasure There it can't be any more clearer
>> but I won't be surprised if you still don't interpret it correctly.There
>> is most certainly no "do as I say not as I do". But further discussion
>> is pointless.Good luck and good day sir!
>
> Oh I comprehend things just find. It just so happens that my
> interpretation
> doesn't agree with your opinion and I clearly stated why.
>
> Oh by the way, every time you top post you are ignoring guidelines
> established long before ABPA was started so you are clearly not following
> your own suggestion that guidelines be followed, i.e. smack in the middle
> of
> "do as I say not as I do".
>
> --
> ---
> there should be a "sig" here

[Dave LaCourse]

On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 23:28:31 -0400, "Hub Plott III"
> wrote:

>No one said it was YOURnet
>or my net!

Ahhh, but your are wrong, Mr. Top Poster. <kack>

The term "our group" has been used several times by different people,
perhaps not in this thread but in the overall yenc conversations.

Again, it is usenet. It belongs to no one. It belongs to everyone.
And, unless a newsgroup is moderated (binaries are never moderated as
faik), then any "rules" you make are simply suggestions. You can not
tell *anyone* what format they *must* post in.

If you can not download anything in yenc, then you are missing some
wonderful photos AND videos.

hth, Mr. Top Poster.

Dave

[Hub Plott III]

Mr Name caller:
I fully agree with your usenet statments and what you said on yEnc in that
we are missing a lot of great stuff so. now if you want to be helpful point
the way to a decoder that works well with Outlook Express. I have tried two
and they suck! I am willing to try a third! So put up; I look forward to
seeing what I have been missing, Mr. Name Caller!

"Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 23:28:31 -0400, "Hub Plott III"
> > wrote:
>
>>No one said it was YOURnet
>>or my net!
>
> Ahhh, but your are wrong, Mr. Top Poster. <kack>
>
> The term "our group" has been used several times by different people,
> perhaps not in this thread but in the overall yenc conversations.
>
> Again, it is usenet. It belongs to no one. It belongs to everyone.
> And, unless a newsgroup is moderated (binaries are never moderated as
> faik), then any "rules" you make are simply suggestions. You can not
> tell *anyone* what format they *must* post in.
>
> If you can not download anything in yenc, then you are missing some
> wonderful photos AND videos.
>
> hth, Mr. Top Poster.
>
> Dave
>
>
>

[Indrek Aavisto]

HPI> Mr Name caller:
HPI> I fully agree with your usenet statments and what you said on yEnc
HPI> in that
HPI> we are missing a lot of great stuff so. now if you want to be
HPI> helpful point
HPI> the way to a decoder that works well with Outlook Express. I have
HPI> tried two
HPI> and they suck! I am willing to try a third! So put up; I look
HPI> forward to
HPI> seeing what I have been missing, Mr. Name Caller!

I use Fidolook which works seamlessly with Outlook Express.

Cheers,

Indrek Aavisto


--
Criticism is easy; achievement is difficult. W.S. Churchill

[Hub Plott III]

" I use Fidolook which works seamlessly with Outlook Express.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Indrek Aavisto
Thank you Indrek! I will give it a try!
Hub

[Dave LaCourse]

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 19:35:53 -0400, "Hub Plott III"
> wrote:

>Mr. Name Caller!
Touche.

I don't know what will work for you. My ability to download yenc and
other encoded files came about when I got rid of a newsreader that
would no longer carry newsgroups. It was necessary to get a new one
and I (my wife, actually - she's the one with the PhD and all the
brains in the family) selected Forte/Giganews.

The first picture I came across worked fine. The first time I saw
yenc I clicked on it like I would a normal jpg, and it came back with
a wonderful picture. The same with mpg yenc videos and avi yenc
videos in the alt.binaries.multimedia.aviation.

Sorry I can't help you, but I'm betting that Noise can.

Be well.

Dave

[Glenn[_2_]]

"Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 23:28:31 -0400, "Hub Plott III"
> > wrote:
>
>>No one said it was YOURnet
>>or my net!
>
> Ahhh, but your are wrong, Mr. Top Poster. <kack>
>
> The term "our group" has been used several times by different people,
> perhaps not in this thread but in the overall yenc conversations.
>
> Again, it is usenet. It belongs to no one. It belongs to everyone.
> And, unless a newsgroup is moderated (binaries are never moderated as
> faik), then any "rules" you make are simply suggestions. You can not
> tell *anyone* what format they *must* post in.
>
> If you can not download anything in yenc, then you are missing some
> wonderful photos AND videos.
>
And a lot of crap ;-)
>

[Bernd Rosemeier]

"Hub Plott III" > schrieb im Newsbeitrag
...
> As I posted those comments I KNOW what they mean you only THINK you know
> what I meant and it is the height of arrogance to assume you know better
> than I do what I meant by what I said.

And more blabla

The height of arrogancy is to ignore the wishes of the majority here! And
that means no yenc.

You seem to have some difficulties in reading and underszanding the FAQ.
Thats sad.

Bernd

[Dave LaCourse]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:23:56 GMT, "Glenn" >
wrote:

>And a lot of crap ;-)

Well, afterall, it *is* the usenet. d;o)

If you can not use yenc, your really are missing alot at
alt.bin.multimedia.aviation.

[Just Plane Noise[_2_]]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:14:51 +0200, "Bernd Rosemeier"
> wrote:


>
>The height of arrogancy is to ignore the wishes of the majority here! And
>that means no yenc.
>

I'm really REALLY tired of all this, but judging by the posts on both
sides, opinion is about evenly split, and with a few more discovering
easy, free decoders, the "no yEnc" position may now be a minority.
True enough, those who post aren't a random sample (and it would be
impossible to get one since the relevant population cannot be
satisfactorily defined). Then again, those who voiced an opinion when
the guidelines were created could not have been a random sample
either, for the same reason.

I just don't see why the argument continues. Everybody posts the way
they want, keeping any potential consequences in mind, and everybody
does whatever they want or need to do to see the pictures--none of
which requires great effort or expense by any stretch of the
imagination. Sheeessshhhh!

The gain would be huge--not better pictures, or quicker download
times, or anything like that; just no more yEnc discussion!

[Just Plane Noise[_2_]]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 08:10:10 -0400, Dave LaCourse
> wrote:

>On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 06:23:56 GMT, "Glenn" >
>wrote:
>
>>And a lot of crap ;-)
>
>Well, afterall, it *is* the usenet. d;o)
>
>If you can not use yenc, your really are missing alot at
>alt.bin.multimedia.aviation.
>
>

Ain't THAT the truth! If you didn't post most of the bigger files in
yEnc in groups like that, the bandwidth polizei would be on yer ass
but quick! I'm aware of that since I'm preparing my own home videos
of EAA from the early and mid '90s, when I was UNDER the line of
flight (your bladder control has not been fully tested until a Tomcat
is screaming right at you only about a thousand feet off the deck). I
just need to learn a teeny bit more about video editiing first.

[Paul Elliot]

russell wrote:
> Same with me...
>
>
> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Actually it is very simple. When this NG was established one of the
>> "rules" was no yenc,plain and simple. Either you choose to follow the
>> rules or not, no skin off my nose either way. I have downloaded two free
>> yEnc decoders and neither have worked worth a damn but at least I tried.
>> As I have broadband, downloading useless posts does not create a problem;
>> for those for whom it does they can just block your posts and problem
>> solved.It is not that hard to work it out either way.
>> FWIW
>> "
>
>

My big gripe with Yenc is that so many of the files are corrupted in the
process.

--
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

[Paul Elliot]

Glenn wrote:
>
> "Dave LaCourse" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 8 Aug 2007 23:28:31 -0400, "Hub Plott III"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> No one said it was YOURnet
>>> or my net!
>>
>> Ahhh, but your are wrong, Mr. Top Poster. <kack>
>>
>> The term "our group" has been used several times by different people,
>> perhaps not in this thread but in the overall yenc conversations.
>>
>> Again, it is usenet. It belongs to no one. It belongs to everyone.
>> And, unless a newsgroup is moderated (binaries are never moderated as
>> faik), then any "rules" you make are simply suggestions. You can not
>> tell *anyone* what format they *must* post in.
>>
>> If you can not download anything in yenc, then you are missing some
>> wonderful photos AND videos.
>>
> And a lot of crap ;-)
>>
>

In New Jersey it is "Youse-net".
:-)

--
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

[Clairbear]

Paul Elliot > wrote in
:

> russell wrote:
>> Same with me...
>>
>>
>> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Actually it is very simple. When this NG was established one of the
>>> "rules" was no yenc,plain and simple. Either you choose to follow
>>> the rules or not, no skin off my nose either way. I have downloaded
>>> two free yEnc decoders and neither have worked worth a damn but at
>>> least I tried. As I have broadband, downloading useless posts does
>>> not create a problem; for those for whom it does they can just block
>>> your posts and problem solved.It is not that hard to work it out
>>> either way. FWIW
>>> "
>>
>>
>
> My big gripe with Yenc is that so many of the files are corrupted in
> the process.
>

maybe you are doing it wrong I have never had a problem with yEnc as I use
xnews

[Just Plane Noise[_2_]]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:38:54 GMT, Clairbear > wrote:

>Paul Elliot > wrote in
:
>
>> russell wrote:
>>> Same with me...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Actually it is very simple. When this NG was established one of the
>>>> "rules" was no yenc,plain and simple. Either you choose to follow
>>>> the rules or not, no skin off my nose either way. I have downloaded
>>>> two free yEnc decoders and neither have worked worth a damn but at
>>>> least I tried. As I have broadband, downloading useless posts does
>>>> not create a problem; for those for whom it does they can just block
>>>> your posts and problem solved.It is not that hard to work it out
>>>> either way. FWIW
>>>> "
>>>
>>>
>>
>> My big gripe with Yenc is that so many of the files are corrupted in
>> the process.
>>
>
>maybe you are doing it wrong I have never had a problem with yEnc as I use
>xnews


Never a problem with Agent either, Paul. But I don't know if that
suggests a reader problem, an ISP problem, or what--wish I could be of
more help.

[Paul Elliot]

Just Plane Noise wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 15:38:54 GMT, Clairbear > wrote:
>
>> Paul Elliot > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> russell wrote:
>>>> Same with me...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Hub Plott III" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> Actually it is very simple. When this NG was established one of the
>>>>> "rules" was no yenc,plain and simple. Either you choose to follow
>>>>> the rules or not, no skin off my nose either way. I have downloaded
>>>>> two free yEnc decoders and neither have worked worth a damn but at
>>>>> least I tried. As I have broadband, downloading useless posts does
>>>>> not create a problem; for those for whom it does they can just block
>>>>> your posts and problem solved.It is not that hard to work it out
>>>>> either way. FWIW
>>>>> "
>>>>
>>> My big gripe with Yenc is that so many of the files are corrupted in
>>> the process.
>>>
>> maybe you are doing it wrong I have never had a problem with yEnc as I use
>> xnews
>
>
> Never a problem with Agent either, Paul. But I don't know if that
> suggests a reader problem, an ISP problem, or what--wish I could be of
> more help.

Perhaps it is because I'm using "Picture Agent" which is a pretty
ancient program. I like it because it automatically downloads just the
pictures without all the text blather. I only get that when I use T-Bird
or OE.

--
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

[Dave LaCourse]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 07:52:57 -0700, Paul Elliot
> wrote:

>My big gripe with Yenc is that so many of the files are corrupted in the
>process.

Really? I don't think I have ever run across a corrupted yenc file.

Dave

[Dave LaCourse]

On Fri, 10 Aug 2007 10:05:36 -0700, Paul Elliot
> wrote:

>Perhaps it is because I'm using "Picture Agent" which is a pretty
>ancient program. I like it because it automatically downloads just the
>pictures without all the text blather. I only get that when I use T-Bird
>or OE.

Mmmmm. I use Agent and I get just the picture if I "launch" with the
rocket icon at the tool window. If I double click it, I get text (if
there is any) and a window to lauch the picture. I have never seen a
corrupt yenc file using agent. I *have* seen some corrupt yenc videor
files, but that is the fault of the sender, not the down-loading.

Dave

[Hub Plott III]

"Maybe you should find another hobby?
You like wise!