Glider add on.....

[Scruiser]

.....from the Sport Pilot certificate? I'm currently working on my
Sport Pilot certificate and when that's done I want to add glider
"approval". I've heard rumors about a "light-sport" category of
glider, but I'm interested in the full monty. Question: Can I "add
on" gliders to a Sport Pilot ticket in the same way I would to a ASEL
certificate?

[Michael Ash]

Scruiser > wrote:
> ....from the Sport Pilot certificate? I'm currently working on my
> Sport Pilot certificate and when that's done I want to add glider
> "approval". I've heard rumors about a "light-sport" category of
> glider, but I'm interested in the full monty. Question: Can I "add
> on" gliders to a Sport Pilot ticket in the same way I would to a ASEL
> certificate?

First, a warning: I don't know jack about squat when it comes to these
things.

Now, the relevant CFR just refers to "at least 40 hours of flight time as
a pilot in a heavier-than-air aircraft". Perhaps this is more specific
than it sounds or I'm missing another applicable CFR, but this certainly
sounds like not only would Sport Pilot apply, but so would Student Pilot.
This seems odd to me, but I see no mention of a particular rating, just
time logged.

The regs in question are CFR 61.109 accessible from
http://www.access.gpo.gov/nara/cfr/waisidx_07/14cfr61_07.html

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

[BT]

I believe the answer to that is no.. I remember reading it someone either on
the EAA LSA web pages or on the AOPA Web.
I will preface this with.. AFAIK (As Far As I Know)

There is no Light Sport Pilot - Glider designation, there is no "approval"
endorsement available from a CFIG.
There are questions on the Private Glider Written Test that are not covered
under the Light Sport Pilot written test. Remember that LS Pilots are
limited to 10,000MSL and below, gliders are not.. so enter airspace
questions, and Oxygen requirements etc.

An "add-on" rating usually means no written required, you will need to
complete the Glider Private Written Test and complete the full FAA Check
Ride for the Private Pilot Glider. I believe your Pilot Certificate would
then read "Private Pilot - Glider", Light Sport Aircraft Privileges with the
LSA endorsements you currently hold. Completing the Private Pilot Glider is
actually a step above Light Sport Pilot.

The number of training hours required per FAR as mentioned by M. Ash are
relevant.. but easily surpassed with proper training.

BT
CFI-G

"Scruiser" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> ....from the Sport Pilot certificate? I'm currently working on my
> Sport Pilot certificate and when that's done I want to add glider
> "approval". I've heard rumors about a "light-sport" category of
> glider, but I'm interested in the full monty. Question: Can I "add
> on" gliders to a Sport Pilot ticket in the same way I would to a ASEL
> certificate?
>

[Scruiser]

On Aug 13, 7:50 pm, "BT" > wrote:
> I believe the answer to that is no.. I remember reading it someone either on
> the EAA LSA web pages or on the AOPA Web.
> I will preface this with.. AFAIK (As Far As I Know)
>
> There is no Light Sport Pilot - Glider designation, there is no "approval"
> endorsement available from a CFIG.
> There are questions on the Private Glider Written Test that are not covered
> under the Light Sport Pilot written test. Remember that LS Pilots are
> limited to 10,000MSL and below, gliders are not.. so enter airspace
> questions, and Oxygen requirements etc.
>
> An "add-on" rating usually means no written required, you will need to
> complete the Glider Private Written Test and complete the full FAA Check
> Ride for the Private Pilot Glider. I believe your Pilot Certificate would
> then read "Private Pilot - Glider", Light Sport Aircraft Privileges with the
> LSA endorsements you currently hold. Completing the Private Pilot Glider is
> actually a step above Light Sport Pilot.
>
> The number of training hours required per FAR as mentioned by M. Ash are
> relevant.. but easily surpassed with proper training.
>
> BT
> CFI-G
>
> "Scruiser" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > ....from the Sport Pilot certificate? I'm currently working on my
> > Sport Pilot certificate and when that's done I want to add glider
> > "approval". I've heard rumors about a "light-sport" category of
> > glider, but I'm interested in the full monty. Question: Can I "add
> > on" gliders to a Sport Pilot ticket in the same way I would to a ASEL
> > certificate?

Good information. Thanks!

[[email protected]]

> Question: Can I "add on" gliders to a Sport Pilot ticket in the
> same way I would to a ASEL certificate?

The short answer is yes.

In order to obtain the privileges to operate an additional category or
class of light-sport aircraft (and quite a few glider models do meet
the definition of "light-sport aircraft," as defined in FAR 1.1), a
sport pilot must receive appropriate training, a proficiency check,
and related logbook endorsements from authorized instructors, as well
as complete some paperwork. The FAR to reference is 61.321.
Privileges to operate each additional make and model within the glider
category are obtained with training and endorsements specific to that
make and model, per FAR 61.323.

The primary difference between the sport pilot "transition" from the
airplane to glider category and transitioning from PPL-ASEL to PPL-G,
for example, is that with the PPL a check ride with a FAA examiner is
required whereas the sport-pilot requires a "proficiency check" (and
endorsement) from an instructor other than the one who provides the
training endorsement. (Of course training requirements, experience
minimums, and operating restrictions differ as well.)

Anecdotally, I have heard of a holder of a sport pilot certificate
(light-sport airplane) who went through exactly this process to "add
on" a glider endorsement. The endorsements were received, paperwork
prepared, and everything was in order, but in the end the pilot
decided to just go ahead and complete the few remaining additional
requirements for a PPL-G rating.

The page at the following URL contains a good synopsis of the Light
Sport Aircraft / Sport Pilot Rule. http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/final_rule_synopsis.html
See the condensed rule: http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/sp_rule.pdf
See complete rule: http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/final_rule.pdf

Also note that part of what BT mentioned is certainly true. The sport
pilot with an endorsement for the glider category will have more
operating restrictions than a pilot with a PPL-G rating.

> I've heard rumors about a "light-sport" category of glider, but I'm
> interested in the full monty.

It seems that as long as a glider meets the definition of light-sport
aircraft (see FAR 1.1), then it may be flown by a sport pilot who has
received training and a logbook endorsement from an authorized
instructor for the category, class, and make and model of aircraft.
Note that for the sport pilot, training and an endorsement for each
specific make and model of aircraft may be required, as summarized in
FAR 61.323.

Many "older" gliders meet the definition of "light-sport aircraft,"
but it appears that most of the more modern (glass) ships do not,
primarily due to the Vne restriction.

> I'm currently working on my Sport Pilot certificate and when
> that's done I want to add glider "approval".

Fly safe, have fun, and finally, IANAL.

[Wayne Paul]

It should be noted that a person with a Sport Pilot (Glider) ticket may not
fly above 10,000 ft MSL. This makes the ticket useless in the Western US
where the valley floors are commonly above 5,000 ft MSL and the mountain
ranges are above 12,000 feet.

Wayne
http://www.soaridaho.com/

> wrote in message
s.com...
>> Question: Can I "add on" gliders to a Sport Pilot ticket in the
>> same way I would to a ASEL certificate?
>
> The short answer is yes.
>
> In order to obtain the privileges to operate an additional category or
> class of light-sport aircraft (and quite a few glider models do meet
> the definition of "light-sport aircraft," as defined in FAR 1.1), a
> sport pilot must receive appropriate training, a proficiency check,
> and related logbook endorsements from authorized instructors, as well
> as complete some paperwork. The FAR to reference is 61.321.
> Privileges to operate each additional make and model within the glider
> category are obtained with training and endorsements specific to that
> make and model, per FAR 61.323.
>
> The primary difference between the sport pilot "transition" from the
> airplane to glider category and transitioning from PPL-ASEL to PPL-G,
> for example, is that with the PPL a check ride with a FAA examiner is
> required whereas the sport-pilot requires a "proficiency check" (and
> endorsement) from an instructor other than the one who provides the
> training endorsement. (Of course training requirements, experience
> minimums, and operating restrictions differ as well.)
>
> Anecdotally, I have heard of a holder of a sport pilot certificate
> (light-sport airplane) who went through exactly this process to "add
> on" a glider endorsement. The endorsements were received, paperwork
> prepared, and everything was in order, but in the end the pilot
> decided to just go ahead and complete the few remaining additional
> requirements for a PPL-G rating.
>
> The page at the following URL contains a good synopsis of the Light
> Sport Aircraft / Sport Pilot Rule.
> http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/final_rule_synopsis.html
> See the condensed rule: http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/sp_rule.pdf
> See complete rule: http://www.sportpilot.org/learn/final_rule.pdf
>
> Also note that part of what BT mentioned is certainly true. The sport
> pilot with an endorsement for the glider category will have more
> operating restrictions than a pilot with a PPL-G rating.
>
>> I've heard rumors about a "light-sport" category of glider, but I'm
>> interested in the full monty.
>
> It seems that as long as a glider meets the definition of light-sport
> aircraft (see FAR 1.1), then it may be flown by a sport pilot who has
> received training and a logbook endorsement from an authorized
> instructor for the category, class, and make and model of aircraft.
> Note that for the sport pilot, training and an endorsement for each
> specific make and model of aircraft may be required, as summarized in
> FAR 61.323.
>
> Many "older" gliders meet the definition of "light-sport aircraft,"
> but it appears that most of the more modern (glass) ships do not,
> primarily due to the Vne restriction.
>
>> I'm currently working on my Sport Pilot certificate and when
>> that's done I want to add glider "approval".
>
> Fly safe, have fun, and finally, IANAL.
>

[Tony Verhulst]

wrote:
>> Question: Can I "add on" gliders to a Sport Pilot ticket in the
>> same way I would to a ASEL certificate?
>
> The short answer is yes.

Agreed, but..... But if you want to fly a Blanik (common training
glider) or an LS4, you're out of luck as the Sport Pilot rating limits
you to ships have a Vne (top speed) of 120 knots. You are also
restricted to the maximum altitude of 10,000 feet so no wave soaring for
you. See my web page on the topic, written for the students of the
Greater Boston Soaring Club at
http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/GBSC/student/sportpilot.htm


Tony V. CFI-G

[BT]

thanx Tony..
BT

"Tony Verhulst" > wrote in message
. ..
> wrote:
>>> Question: Can I "add on" gliders to a Sport Pilot ticket in the
>>> same way I would to a ASEL certificate?
>>
>> The short answer is yes.
>
> Agreed, but..... But if you want to fly a Blanik (common training glider)
> or an LS4, you're out of luck as the Sport Pilot rating limits you to
> ships have a Vne (top speed) of 120 knots. You are also restricted to the
> maximum altitude of 10,000 feet so no wave soaring for you. See my web
> page on the topic, written for the students of the Greater Boston Soaring
> Club at http://home.comcast.net/~verhulst/GBSC/student/sportpilot.htm
>
>
> Tony V. CFI-G