P-51's, Aces: A Special Gathering

[J a c k]

------------ fwd ------------

Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.


This coming weekend, there will be a very special gathering in
Columbus, Ohio. They expect 120 P-51s to attend along with many
of the 80 or so remaining WWII Aces.

See this link for details: http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp


=========== end fwd ===========

[Tex Houston]

"J a c k" > wrote in message
et...
> ------------ fwd ------------
>
> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>
>
> This coming weekend, there will be a very special gathering in
> Columbus, Ohio. They expect 120 P-51s to attend along with many
> of the 80 or so remaining WWII Aces.
>
> See this link for details: http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp

The problem with your message is that next weekend is NOT September 27-30,
2007.

Regards,

Tex Houston

[J a c k]

Tex Houston wrote:

>> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
>> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>>
>>
>> ...there will be a very special gathering in
>> Columbus, Ohio. They expect 120 P-51s to attend along with many
>> of the 80 or so remaining WWII Aces.
>>
>> See this link for details: http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp
>
> The problem with your message is that next weekend is NOT September
> 27-30, 2007.



Bad cutting & pasting, and worse reading comprehension on my part--sorry.

But, you got the message?



Jack

[Tex Houston]

"J a c k" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> Bad cutting & pasting, and worse reading comprehension on my part--sorry.
>
> But, you got the message?
>
>
>
> Jack

I've known about it since 2005 (or before). Two Colorado airports were in
the final three locations considered. I just can't go, much to my regret.

Regards,

Tex Houston

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
> ------------ fwd ------------
>
> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.

"Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
preceded it?

BTW, your legendary is only the D-model.
>
> This coming weekend, there will be a very special gathering in
> Columbus, Ohio. They expect 120 P-51s to attend along with many
> of the 80 or so remaining WWII Aces.
>
> See this link for details:http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp
>
> =========== end fwd ===========

Gee, will they have models of Luftwaffe airfields with Me-262s taking
off or landing with Mustangs pouncing on them? If not, you will waste
your money :)

Rob

[Dan[_2_]]

Rob Arndt wrote:
> On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
>> ------------ fwd ------------
>>
>> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
>> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>
> "Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
> preceded it?
>
He said "few" not "no," didn't he? Stop being so sensitive.

> BTW, your legendary is only the D-model.
>> This coming weekend, there will be a very special gathering in
>> Columbus, Ohio. They expect 120 P-51s to attend along with many
>> of the 80 or so remaining WWII Aces.
>>
>> See this link for details:http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp
>>
>> =========== end fwd ===========
>
> Gee, will they have models of Luftwaffe airfields with Me-262s taking
> off or landing with Mustangs pouncing on them? If not, you will waste
> your money :)
>
> Rob
>
I bet they won't have models of Nazi planes bombing Guernica either
or a P-51 shooting down an Me262, so what?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 21, 11:58?am, Dan > wrote:
> Rob Arndt wrote:
> > On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
> >> ------------ fwd ------------
>
> >> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
> >> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>
> > "Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
> > preceded it?
>
> He said "few" not "no," didn't he? Stop being so sensitive.
>
> > BTW, your legendary is only the D-model.
> >> This coming weekend, there will be a very special gathering in
> >> Columbus, Ohio. They expect 120 P-51s to attend along with many
> >> of the 80 or so remaining WWII Aces.
>
> >> See this link for details:http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp
>
> >> =========== end fwd ===========
>
> > Gee, will they have models of Luftwaffe airfields with Me-262s taking
> > off or landing with Mustangs pouncing on them? If not, you will waste
> > your money :)
>
> > Rob
>
> I bet they won't have models of Nazi planes bombing Guernica either
> or a P-51 shooting down an Me262, so what?
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

I wonder if they will have a tribute to the Tuskeegee airmen, or will
wartime racism still survive?

Rob

[[email protected]]

On Aug 21, 4:24?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 11:58?am, Dan > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Rob Arndt wrote:
> > > On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
> > >> ------------ fwd ------------
>
> > >> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
> > >> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>
> > > "Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
> > > preceded it?
>
> > He said "few" not "no," didn't he? Stop being so sensitive.
>
> > > BTW, your legendary is only the D-model.
> > >> This coming weekend, there will be a very special gathering in
> > >> Columbus, Ohio. They expect 120 P-51s to attend along with many
> > >> of the 80 or so remaining WWII Aces.
>
> > >> See this link for details:http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp
>
> > >> =========== end fwd ===========
>
> > > Gee, will they have models of Luftwaffe airfields with Me-262s taking
> > > off or landing with Mustangs pouncing on them? If not, you will waste
> > > your money :)
>
> > > Rob
>
> > I bet they won't have models of Nazi planes bombing Guernica either
> > or a P-51 shooting down an Me262, so what?
>
> > Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> I wonder if they will have a tribute to the Tuskeegee airmen, or will
> wartime racism still survive?
>
> Rob- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Good heavens, Rob..lighten up. All it was was an announcement on REC
soaring to announce something of interest to alot of us. Not worth
fighting the war again or nitpicking one "legendary" plane over
another. The TA152-H1 could out perform them all so what's your real
point? Kurt Tank's last wartime creation at least looked like a
sailplane, which is what we speak here.

Gary Adams

[Dan[_2_]]

Rob Arndt wrote:
> On Aug 21, 11:58?am, Dan > wrote:
>> Rob Arndt wrote:
>>> On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
>>>> ------------ fwd ------------
>>>> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
>>>> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>>> "Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
>>> preceded it?
>> He said "few" not "no," didn't he? Stop being so sensitive.
>>
>>> BTW, your legendary is only the D-model.
>>>> This coming weekend, there will be a very special gathering in
>>>> Columbus, Ohio. They expect 120 P-51s to attend along with many
>>>> of the 80 or so remaining WWII Aces.
>>>> See this link for details:http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp
>>>> =========== end fwd ===========
>>> Gee, will they have models of Luftwaffe airfields with Me-262s taking
>>> off or landing with Mustangs pouncing on them? If not, you will waste
>>> your money :)
>>> Rob
>> I bet they won't have models of Nazi planes bombing Guernica either
>> or a P-51 shooting down an Me262, so what?
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> I wonder if they will have a tribute to the Tuskeegee airmen, or will
> wartime racism still survive?
>
> Rob
>
Post wartime racism is alive and well, look in the mirror.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Rob Arndt wrote:
> On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
>> ------------ fwd ------------
>>
>> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
>> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>
> "Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
> preceded it?



No.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Dan wrote:
> Rob Arndt wrote:
>> On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
>>> ------------ fwd ------------
>>>
>>> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
>>> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>>
>> "Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
>> preceded it?
>>
> He said "few" not "no," didn't he? Stop being so sensitive.


Well, aside from the Spitfire, those others are for losers. Dems de facks.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 21, 5:21?pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com>
wrote:
> Dan wrote:
> > Rob Arndt wrote:
> >> On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
> >>> ------------ fwd ------------
>
> >>> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
> >>> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>
> >> "Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
> >> preceded it?
>
> > He said "few" not "no," didn't he? Stop being so sensitive.
>
> Well, aside from the Spitfire, those others are for losers. Dems de facks.
>
> --
> Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
with the most kills and aces made. It lived on beyond its Third Reich
1935-45 timeframe too.

Mort, you are a loser.

Rob

[tomcervo]

On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
> with the most kills and aces made.

However did they lose the war?

> It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.

Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
eh?

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 21, 5:48?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
> > with the most kills and aces made.
>
> However did they lose the war?
>
> > It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.
>
> Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
> eh?

So what Tom? Is that all you got? What excuse does the unbombed
continental US Arsenal of Democracy have for not producing all better
a/c that should have surpassed the Me Bf 109, the German jets, and all
their advanced designs that the Allies used postwar in windtunnel
data, prototypes, and some operational a/c?

The US best ace, Richard Bong, flew a Lightning in the PTO and was
killed by a XP-80. Where are all your P-51 Mustang aces to compare
with the German Experten on lethal 109s? They weren't ****- they only
held air superiority in numbers. Hell, even the primitive Russians
kicked the US aces asses with more kills in inferior a/c.

**** the P-51... it wasn't even **** until the redesigned D-Model
anyway and the Me Bf 109Gs and Ks were not obsolete in 1945... just
outnumbered 11-to-1 in the air.

Hartmann, the ace of aces, said that the Mustang was nothing special.
I concur wholeheartedly.

Even Italians and Romanians shot down Mustangs...

Ponder that Tommy-boy.

Rob

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 21, 5:48?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
> > with the most kills and aces made.
>
> However did they lose the war?
>
> > It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.
>
> Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
> eh?

Get your history right Tom... the S-199s that Israel got did their job
well from May-Oct 1948 despite lack of numbers and poor Israeli
maintenance.

http://www.geocities.com/capecanaveral/hangar/2848/fighter1.htm

So, they were replaced with better Spits and Mustangs in the long run.
The Avia S-199 Czech surplus manufactures along with the inexperienced
Israeli pilots are definately not the same as German 109G and Ks
operated by Luftwaffe Experten... or are you that stupid???

Yet they performed well enough to halt many Arab attacks and were
Israels first fighters. So they have their place in history.

Nothing you can say can detract from that.

Rob

Rob

[tomcervo]

On Aug 21, 9:12?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 5:48?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>
> > On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > > The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
> > > with the most kills and aces made.
>
> > However did they lose the war?
>
> > > It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.
>
> > Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
> > eh?
>
> So what Tom? Is that all you got? What excuse does the unbombed
> continental US Arsenal of Democracy have for not producing all better
> a/c that should have surpassed the Me Bf 109, the German jets, and all
> their advanced designs that the Allies used postwar in windtunnel
> data, prototypes, and some operational a/c?
>
> The US best ace, Richard Bong, flew a Lightning in the PTO and was
> killed by a XP-80. Where are all your P-51 Mustang aces to compare
> with the German Experten on lethal 109s? They weren't ****- they only
> held air superiority in numbers. Hell, even the primitive Russians
> kicked the US aces asses with more kills in inferior a/c.
>
> **** the P-51... it wasn't even **** until the redesigned D-Model
> anyway and the Me Bf 109Gs and Ks were not obsolete in 1945... just
> outnumbered 11-to-1 in the air.
>
> Hartmann, the ace of aces, said that the Mustang was nothing special.
> I concur wholeheartedly.
>
> Even Italians and Romanians shot down Mustangs...
>
> Ponder that Tommy-boy.
>
> Rob

And yet they lost the war. Ponder that.

[tomcervo]

On Aug 21, 9:24?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> So, they were replaced with better Spits and Mustangs in the long run.
> The Avia S-199 Czech surplus manufactures along with the inexperienced
> Israeli pilots are definately not the same as German 109G and Ks
> operated by Luftwaffe Experten... or are you that stupid???
>
> Yet they performed well enough to halt many Arab attacks and were
> Israels first fighters. So they have their place in history.
>
> Nothing you can say can detract from that.
>
> Rob

I don't need to: the Czechs said it all when they gave the S-199 the
nickname "Mule". Real ringing endorsement of its flying qualities.
Fortunately, the Israelis hired a squadron of ex-RAF and USAAF
volunteers who could fly anything.

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 21, 9:24?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 9:24?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > So, they were replaced with better Spits and Mustangs in the long run.
> > The Avia S-199 Czech surplus manufactures along with the inexperienced
> > Israeli pilots are definately not the same as German 109G and Ks
> > operated by Luftwaffe Experten... or are you that stupid???
>
> > Yet they performed well enough to halt many Arab attacks and were
> > Israels first fighters. So they have their place in history.
>
> > Nothing you can say can detract from that.
>
> > Rob
>
> I don't need to: the Czechs said it all when they gave the S-199 the
> nickname "Mule". Real ringing endorsement of its flying qualities.
> Fortunately, the Israelis hired a squadron of ex-RAF and USAAF
> volunteers who could fly anything.

Well, Israel tells a different story and the Czech history is not
Israeli history- especially when talking about the rebirth of Israel
in 1948.

Sorry Tom, but you are proven wrong... or do I have to list all the
succesful engagements that saved Israel?

Rob

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 21, 9:20?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 9:12?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 21, 5:48?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > > > The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
> > > > with the most kills and aces made.
>
> > > However did they lose the war?
>
> > > > It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.
>
> > > Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
> > > eh?
>
> > So what Tom? Is that all you got? What excuse does the unbombed
> > continental US Arsenal of Democracy have for not producing all better
> > a/c that should have surpassed the Me Bf 109, the German jets, and all
> > their advanced designs that the Allies used postwar in windtunnel
> > data, prototypes, and some operational a/c?
>
> > The US best ace, Richard Bong, flew a Lightning in the PTO and was
> > killed by a XP-80. Where are all your P-51 Mustang aces to compare
> > with the German Experten on lethal 109s? They weren't ****- they only
> > held air superiority in numbers. Hell, even the primitive Russians
> > kicked the US aces asses with more kills in inferior a/c.
>
> > **** the P-51... it wasn't even **** until the redesigned D-Model
> > anyway and the Me Bf 109Gs and Ks were not obsolete in 1945... just
> > outnumbered 11-to-1 in the air.
>
> > Hartmann, the ace of aces, said that the Mustang was nothing special.
> > I concur wholeheartedly.
>
> > Even Italians and Romanians shot down Mustangs...
>
> > Ponder that Tommy-boy.
>
> > Rob
>
> And yet they lost the war. Ponder that.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ponder this Tom- NO USAF OR ANY OTHER NATIONAL AF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT
HARTMANN'S SCORE OR THE SCORES OF MANY GERMAN ACES FROM THE 100 MARK
UP. I DOUBT ANY USAF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT THE RED KNIGHT'S SCORE OF 80
FROM WW 1. THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT IN WW2 OR ANY WAR THEREAFTER!

40 is a pathetic number in terms of German ace scores.

Rob :)

[Bill Shatzer]

tomcervo wrote:

-snip-

> And yet they lost the war. Ponder that.

Details, details!

:-)

Cheers

[Gordon[_2_]]

Unfortunately, the score of individual pilots matters very little when
your enemies build and field hundreds of thousands of aircraft. If
they scored a thousand victories and still failed to protect their
country, its still a loss. I certainly don't blame the German pilots
for the loss of the wars but the only "score" that matters is who has
their flag planted on the other guy's territory at the end of
hostilities.

The scores of airmen that serve for years in combat are going to be
higher than those that are rotated out of combat after set tours, so
that they can educate hundreds of thousands of replacement pilots that
will then go into combat with the benefit of their experiences. I
don't think that matters which country is involved - Germany simply
proves that you can have successful pilots and still lose wars. I
think its better to win wars and have less successful, per capita,
combat pilots. YMMV.

It boils down to this equation: Who has better served his country - A
pilot who destroys 200 enemy aircraft, or a man that personally
destroyed 15, then taught 200 new fighter pilots his successful
tactics? The answer to that question doesn't diminish the
contribution of the 200 (or 352) victory aces, but I believe its
better to have my country win and dictate terms to the vanquished,
than to hold a title and waste the next ten years of my life in a
Soviet POW work camp while my family and countrymen are brutalized,
starved, and my entire way of life is exterminated. Bubi was a GREAT
pilot, but his skills didn't help his country win.

v/r Gordon

[Dan[_2_]]

Gordon wrote:
> Unfortunately, the score of individual pilots matters very little when
> your enemies build and field hundreds of thousands of aircraft. If
> they scored a thousand victories and still failed to protect their
> country, its still a loss. I certainly don't blame the German pilots
> for the loss of the wars but the only "score" that matters is who has
> their flag planted on the other guy's territory at the end of
> hostilities.
>
> The scores of airmen that serve for years in combat are going to be
> higher than those that are rotated out of combat after set tours, so
> that they can educate hundreds of thousands of replacement pilots that
> will then go into combat with the benefit of their experiences. I
> don't think that matters which country is involved - Germany simply
> proves that you can have successful pilots and still lose wars. I
> think its better to win wars and have less successful, per capita,
> combat pilots. YMMV.
>
> It boils down to this equation: Who has better served his country - A
> pilot who destroys 200 enemy aircraft, or a man that personally
> destroyed 15, then taught 200 new fighter pilots his successful
> tactics? The answer to that question doesn't diminish the
> contribution of the 200 (or 352) victory aces, but I believe its
> better to have my country win and dictate terms to the vanquished,
> than to hold a title and waste the next ten years of my life in a
> Soviet POW work camp while my family and countrymen are brutalized,
> starved, and my entire way of life is exterminated. Bubi was a GREAT
> pilot, but his skills didn't help his country win.
>
> v/r Gordon
>
The fact remains aren't will never concede you are correct. Think of
all the times this discussion has occurred as well as his "the Nazis
killed more Soviets" and "look at how many people died defeating Nazi
Germany" rants. It seems he's more impressed with body counts than who
wins, tactics or strategy.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 21, 10:20?pm, Bill Shatzer > wrote:
> tomcervo wrote:
>
> -snip-
>
> > And yet they lost the war. Ponder that.
>
> Details, details!
>
> :-)
>
> Cheers

OK, there are plenty:

German side:

1) All the bad decisions by Hitler year-by-year which include: the ban
on advanced weapon systems for 2 yrs, the failure to deploy the tanks
at Dunkirk, the failure to invade Britain and take Iceland or the
Azores for strategic attack on the US, the attack on Russia, the
splitting of German forces into three Army Groups instead of one
direct line to Moscow, the failure to either reinforce Stalingrad or
let them withdraw, the failure to support Rommel in N Africa, the
failure to put the German economy on full war footing until 1943, the
failure to invest in the German atomic bomb program until it was 1945,
the waste of the V weapons programs, the failure to fully utilize
German women in war production, the failure to provide Doenitz with
300 U-boats in the N Atlantic, the declaration of war against America
on Dec 10, 1941, the duplication of effort by rival branches of the
German armed forces, the Nazi ideology of offensive tactics only,
Hitler's insistance on messing with the Me-262, the failure to deploy
the tanks at Normandy, bailing out Mussolini on several occasions,
ect...
2) Failure to produce single war-winning weapons- instead,
diversifying production to hundreds of models of the same systems and
even wasting invaluable resources and manpower on ridiculous extreme
weapon systems that would not have been on that scale even in peace
time! Great for scientific advancement but bad against masses of enemy
material. Developing "future technology" that would only benefit the
postwar enemies of the Reich but do little to win the war for Germany.
3) Nazi ideology that guaranteed defeat from within and no acceptance
in any of the occupied nations. At least the Romans gave citizenship
and a chance to work your way out of slavery.
4) The Holocaust and all of its reprecussions.
5) Hitler's absolute refusal to listen to his generals and not start a
war until 1944/45- by which time they would have had overwhelming
superiority in numbers and better prepared for all-out war; perhaps
even logical thinking would have occurred regarding strategy.
6) Somehow shipping uranium and red mercury to Japan in 1945 in vain
hopes that a Japanese bomb would force Allied troops from Europe to
PTO or provide atomic weapons to Germany from Japan!
7) Hitler's insistance on Miracle Weapons at a minute to midnight to
win the war!
8) Abandonment since 1934 of a strategic bomber

Allies:

1) Numerical superiority in manpower and war production in all major
categories
2) British breaking of Enigma codes to win naval war in N Atlantic
3) Russians moving heavy industries back behind the Urals
4) US committment to developing Atomic Bomb and using it
5) US deception with false D-Day location of Pas de Calais
6) US and RAF combined round-the-clock bombing campaign (1.5MT dropped
on Germany)
7) Mass production of simple war-winning designs, central-planning on
war production
8) US Lend-Lease policies and supply of weapons to resistance and
guerilla warfare fighters against Germans
9) Italy switching sides during the war
10) Full development of proximity fuses, radar, strategic bombers,
etc...

* Lists are NOT all-inclusive, but sufficient enough...

I'm sure there are a lot more on both sides, but those listed are
enough to cause Germany to lose the war.

Rob

[Bruce]

Well the "mule" was not really a 109. The factory lost their entire stock of
DB601 engines in a fire, so were forced to use an underpower, overweight
alternative. Hence the name mule... (Cross between a horse and a donkey - you
figure out which part is the horse.)

Similar but more successful hybrid was the Spanish Bouchon - which used a Merlin
engine in a 109 airframe.

Now that I think of it - that's quite similar to the Mustang. Designed to a RAF
specification it was transformed into a top performer by exchanging the Allison
engine for a Merlin.

Personally I have a great fascination with the aircraft that represented the
pinnacle of piston power, and transformed the aviation world. There are products
of genius and beautiful engineering in the arsenals of all of the participants.
I can't express the same admiration for any of the uses they were put to.

Sadly we are still in the habit of war mongering.

tomcervo wrote:
> On Aug 21, 9:24?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>> So, they were replaced with better Spits and Mustangs in the long run.
>> The Avia S-199 Czech surplus manufactures along with the inexperienced
>> Israeli pilots are definately not the same as German 109G and Ks
>> operated by Luftwaffe Experten... or are you that stupid???
>>
>> Yet they performed well enough to halt many Arab attacks and were
>> Israels first fighters. So they have their place in history.
>>
>> Nothing you can say can detract from that.
>>
>> Rob
>
> I don't need to: the Czechs said it all when they gave the S-199 the
> nickname "Mule". Real ringing endorsement of its flying qualities.
> Fortunately, the Israelis hired a squadron of ex-RAF and USAAF
> volunteers who could fly anything.
>

[Michael Ash]

In rec.aviation.soaring Rob Arndt > wrote:
> Ponder this Tom- NO USAF OR ANY OTHER NATIONAL AF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT
> HARTMANN'S SCORE OR THE SCORES OF MANY GERMAN ACES FROM THE 100 MARK
> UP. I DOUBT ANY USAF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT THE RED KNIGHT'S SCORE OF 80
> FROM WW 1. THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT IN WW2 OR ANY WAR THEREAFTER!
>
> 40 is a pathetic number in terms of German ace scores.

Slightly counterintuitive but it is difficult for an individual pilot to
score a large number of kills when his side outproduces the other side
several times over and has overwhelming air superiority.

--
Michael Ash
Rogue Amoeba Software

[Big John]

Bob

The Tuskeegee troops took a hit not too long ago. Their PR seemed to
be better than their actual record.

Big John
************************************************** *************

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 13:24:58 -0700, Rob Arndt >
wrote:

----clip----

I wonder if they will have a tribute to the Tuskeegee airmen, or will
wartime racism still survive?

Rob

[Big John]

Bob

Read the record. The large number of 109 kills and Aces were on the
Russian Front.

On the Western Front they ran 6-7 to 1 loss ratio (going to higher
losses toward end of War) against the Jug and 51.

At least until 1966 (last time I visited the Air Force in Guat City)
the 51 was the first line fighter in Guatemala at which time the
Spanish HA1112M (with Merlin engine) (takeoff of Bf-109) was history.
It was only operational from 1954 to 1965.

Big John
************************************************** **********

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 17:40:48 -0700, Rob Arndt >
wrote:

----clip----

The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
with the most kills and aces made. It lived on beyond its Third Reich
1935-45 timeframe too.

Mort, you are a loser.

Rob

[Big John]

Bob

Since you know it all and put in Caps like a kid in kindergarten, how
many Germans made Ace against the P-51????

Big John
**********************************************

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:14:23 -0700, Rob Arndt >
wrote:

>On Aug 21, 9:20?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>> On Aug 21, 9:12?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Aug 21, 5:48?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>>
>> > > > The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
>> > > > with the most kills and aces made.
>>
>> > > However did they lose the war?
>>
>> > > > It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.
>>
>> > > Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
>> > > eh?
>>
>> > So what Tom? Is that all you got? What excuse does the unbombed
>> > continental US Arsenal of Democracy have for not producing all better
>> > a/c that should have surpassed the Me Bf 109, the German jets, and all
>> > their advanced designs that the Allies used postwar in windtunnel
>> > data, prototypes, and some operational a/c?
>>
>> > The US best ace, Richard Bong, flew a Lightning in the PTO and was
>> > killed by a XP-80. Where are all your P-51 Mustang aces to compare
>> > with the German Experten on lethal 109s? They weren't ****- they only
>> > held air superiority in numbers. Hell, even the primitive Russians
>> > kicked the US aces asses with more kills in inferior a/c.
>>
>> > **** the P-51... it wasn't even **** until the redesigned D-Model
>> > anyway and the Me Bf 109Gs and Ks were not obsolete in 1945... just
>> > outnumbered 11-to-1 in the air.
>>
>> > Hartmann, the ace of aces, said that the Mustang was nothing special.
>> > I concur wholeheartedly.
>>
>> > Even Italians and Romanians shot down Mustangs...
>>
>> > Ponder that Tommy-boy.
>>
>> > Rob
>>
>> And yet they lost the war. Ponder that.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Ponder this Tom- NO USAF OR ANY OTHER NATIONAL AF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT
>HARTMANN'S SCORE OR THE SCORES OF MANY GERMAN ACES FROM THE 100 MARK
>UP. I DOUBT ANY USAF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT THE RED KNIGHT'S SCORE OF 80
>FROM WW 1. THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT IN WW2 OR ANY WAR THEREAFTER!
>
>40 is a pathetic number in terms of German ace scores.
>
>Rob :)

[Marc Ramsey]

Can y'all move this discussion elsewhere? It's starting to get annoying...

Big John wrote:
> Bob
>
> Since you know it all and put in Caps like a kid in kindergarten, how
> many Germans made Ace against the P-51????
>
> Big John
> **********************************************
>
> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:14:23 -0700, Rob Arndt >
> wrote:
>
>> On Aug 21, 9:20?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>>> On Aug 21, 9:12?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Aug 21, 5:48?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>>>>>> The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
>>>>>> with the most kills and aces made.
>>>>> However did they lose the war?
>>>>>> It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.
>>>>> Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
>>>>> eh?
>>>> So what Tom? Is that all you got? What excuse does the unbombed
>>>> continental US Arsenal of Democracy have for not producing all better
>>>> a/c that should have surpassed the Me Bf 109, the German jets, and all
>>>> their advanced designs that the Allies used postwar in windtunnel
>>>> data, prototypes, and some operational a/c?
>>>> The US best ace, Richard Bong, flew a Lightning in the PTO and was
>>>> killed by a XP-80. Where are all your P-51 Mustang aces to compare
>>>> with the German Experten on lethal 109s? They weren't ****- they only
>>>> held air superiority in numbers. Hell, even the primitive Russians
>>>> kicked the US aces asses with more kills in inferior a/c.
>>>> **** the P-51... it wasn't even **** until the redesigned D-Model
>>>> anyway and the Me Bf 109Gs and Ks were not obsolete in 1945... just
>>>> outnumbered 11-to-1 in the air.
>>>> Hartmann, the ace of aces, said that the Mustang was nothing special.
>>>> I concur wholeheartedly.
>>>> Even Italians and Romanians shot down Mustangs...
>>>> Ponder that Tommy-boy.
>>>> Rob
>>> And yet they lost the war. Ponder that.- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>> Ponder this Tom- NO USAF OR ANY OTHER NATIONAL AF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT
>> HARTMANN'S SCORE OR THE SCORES OF MANY GERMAN ACES FROM THE 100 MARK
>> UP. I DOUBT ANY USAF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT THE RED KNIGHT'S SCORE OF 80
>>FROM WW 1. THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT IN WW2 OR ANY WAR THEREAFTER!
>> 40 is a pathetic number in terms of German ace scores.
>>
>> Rob :)
>

[Big John]

Marc

Your right. Bob has to be a troll and should be plonked. Why he posted
to Soaring I have no idea

It's hard to convince an idiot so I'm gone.

(P-40, P-51, P-80A & B with small engine like Bong was flying but
better bird than me-262)

Big John
************************************************** **

On Wed, 22 Aug 2007 13:33:40 -0700, Marc Ramsey
> wrote:

>Can y'all move this discussion elsewhere? It's starting to get annoying...
>
>Big John wrote:
>> Bob
>>
>> Since you know it all and put in Caps like a kid in kindergarten, how
>> many Germans made Ace against the P-51????
>>
>> Big John
>> **********************************************
>>
>> On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 22:14:23 -0700, Rob Arndt >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Aug 21, 9:20?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>>>> On Aug 21, 9:12?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Aug 21, 5:48?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>>>>>>> The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
>>>>>>> with the most kills and aces made.
>>>>>> However did they lose the war?
>>>>>>> It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.
>>>>>> Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
>>>>>> eh?
>>>>> So what Tom? Is that all you got? What excuse does the unbombed
>>>>> continental US Arsenal of Democracy have for not producing all better
>>>>> a/c that should have surpassed the Me Bf 109, the German jets, and all
>>>>> their advanced designs that the Allies used postwar in windtunnel
>>>>> data, prototypes, and some operational a/c?
>>>>> The US best ace, Richard Bong, flew a Lightning in the PTO and was
>>>>> killed by a XP-80. Where are all your P-51 Mustang aces to compare
>>>>> with the German Experten on lethal 109s? They weren't ****- they only
>>>>> held air superiority in numbers. Hell, even the primitive Russians
>>>>> kicked the US aces asses with more kills in inferior a/c.
>>>>> **** the P-51... it wasn't even **** until the redesigned D-Model
>>>>> anyway and the Me Bf 109Gs and Ks were not obsolete in 1945... just
>>>>> outnumbered 11-to-1 in the air.
>>>>> Hartmann, the ace of aces, said that the Mustang was nothing special.
>>>>> I concur wholeheartedly.
>>>>> Even Italians and Romanians shot down Mustangs...
>>>>> Ponder that Tommy-boy.
>>>>> Rob
>>>> And yet they lost the war. Ponder that.- Hide quoted text -
>>>>
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Ponder this Tom- NO USAF OR ANY OTHER NATIONAL AF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT
>>> HARTMANN'S SCORE OR THE SCORES OF MANY GERMAN ACES FROM THE 100 MARK
>>> UP. I DOUBT ANY USAF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT THE RED KNIGHT'S SCORE OF 80
>>>FROM WW 1. THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT IN WW2 OR ANY WAR THEREAFTER!
>>> 40 is a pathetic number in terms of German ace scores.
>>>
>>> Rob :)
>>

[J a c k]

Big John wrote:

> Marc
>
> Your right. Bob has to be a troll and should be plonked. Why he posted
> to Soaring I have no idea
>
> It's hard to convince an idiot so I'm gone.
>
> (P-40, P-51, P-80A & B with small engine like Bong was flying but
> better bird than me-262)


Right on, Big John!

As far as "Bob" is concerned, though, I regret--and apologize
for--cross-posting a forwarded message concerning the P-51's/Aces
get-together to both r.a.soaring and r.a.military. It seems, along with
the sports thread for which I am NOT responsible, to have degenerated
here on r.a.s. much more quickly than most. I did not allow for it
attracting the attention of Rob, who is notorious on r.a.m, and thus
causing cross-pollution of r.a.s.

On the other hand, soaring people are apparently way too highly evolved
intellectually for anything so mundane and simple-minded as either
professional sports or flying fighters. As always, those that can, do;
those that can't, bitch about those who can. Why sure, Ted Williams and
Bob Feller were just good ol'boys who couldn't make it any other way.
And we wonder why the US doesn't breed many world champions these days.

In the future my expectations for the quality of r.a.s. dialog will be
more closely geared to the requirements of "those who can't," and to an
enhanced assessment of the limited potential of r.a.s. to deal in a
mature fashion with subjects indirectly related to the nominal News
Group topic.



Jack

[tomcervo]

On Aug 22, 1:14?am, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> Ponder this Tom- NO USAF OR ANY OTHER NATIONAL AF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT
> HARTMANN'S SCORE OR THE SCORES OF MANY GERMAN ACES FROM THE 100 MARK
> UP. I DOUBT ANY USAF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT THE RED KNIGHT'S SCORE OF 80
> FROM WW 1. THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT IN WW2 OR ANY WAR THEREAFTER!

Ponder this--those men who meet in Columbus may hold their heads high,
knowing they fought and won a war to free the world from a murderous
system of enslavement, while your Experten know they fought for the
wrong cause and the world is glad that they lost--and that their
grandchildren are ashamed of them.

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 22, 4:59?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
> On Aug 22, 1:14?am, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > Ponder this Tom- NO USAF OR ANY OTHER NATIONAL AF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT
> > HARTMANN'S SCORE OR THE SCORES OF MANY GERMAN ACES FROM THE 100 MARK
> > UP. I DOUBT ANY USAF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT THE RED KNIGHT'S SCORE OF 80
> > FROM WW 1. THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT IN WW2 OR ANY WAR THEREAFTER!
>
> Ponder this--those men who meet in Columbus may hold their heads high,
> knowing they fought and won a war to free the world from a murderous
> system of enslavement, while your Experten know they fought for the
> wrong cause and the world is glad that they lost--and that their
> grandchildren are ashamed of them.

Number one they didn't win it alone in the world and certainly not
with the P-51 Mustang alone. They can believe whatever they want for
why they fought as Americans but it was about capitalism and big
business, as usual in the western world. What is true democracy linked
with? Freedom? Wrong- money, wealth, capitalism. the US fought b/c
whether Germany won or lost, the US had assets there and wanted to
keep doing business.

To their credit, however, I concede that the P-51 aces killed 2,097
German a/c and had 313 aces with 5 -23.83 kills.

I won't bring up the Me Bf 109s kills or aces made b/c I don't want
you to cry.

Rob :)

p.s. Germany survived, reunified, and lives to fight another day. So,
they spent 10 yrs in misery... in the long run they got off light.

[ljd]

On Tue, 21 Aug 2007 11:28:51 -0700, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
>> ------------ fwd ------------
>>
>> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
>> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>
> "Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
> preceded it?

Sheesh, Rob. He did say "*Few* aircraft are as legendary as
the P-51," not "The P-51 is the absolute bestest aircraft ever,
way way better than those flaming deathtraps the Germans
sacrificed their pilots in."

What should he have said to make you happy?

Something like "Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51,
however this statement is not intended to exclude or disparage
any other legendary aircraft, including but not limited to the
Spitfire, Me-109, and Fw-190," maybe?


ljd

[[email protected]]

On Aug 20, 9:11 pm, J a c k > wrote:
> ------------ fwd ------------
>
> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>
> This coming weekend, there will be a very special gathering in
> Columbus, Ohio. They expect 120 P-51s to attend along with many
> of the 80 or so remaining WWII Aces.
>
> See this link for details:http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp
>
> =========== end fwd ===========




I knew a guy who flew P-51s. He also had time on the P-61, P-38, and
was checked out on several other aircraft in the Pacific Theatre.

He said the one plane he never got to fly but really wanted too was
the Spitfire Mk XXI.

He got into a mock dogfight with one over the Pacific in his P-51 and
immediately became a fan of the Spit.

[[email protected]]

On Aug 21, 6:40 pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 5:21?pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Dan wrote:
> > > Rob Arndt wrote:
> > >> On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
> > >>> ------------ fwd ------------
>
> > >>> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
> > >>> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>
> > >> "Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
> > >> preceded it?
>
> > > He said "few" not "no," didn't he? Stop being so sensitive.
>
> > Well, aside from the Spitfire, those others are for losers. Dems de facks.
>
> > --
> > Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> > mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
>
> The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
> with the most kills and aces made. It lived on beyond its Third Reich
> 1935-45 timeframe too.



It was the ONLY fighter Germany had for a good part of the war. It
stands to reason it would rack up a lot of kills.

What would the Allied record look like if they only had Spits?

It would show the Spit as the greatest killing aircraft of the war.


>
> Mort, you are a loser.
>
> Rob- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[[email protected]]

On Aug 21, 7:12 pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 5:48?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>
> > On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > > The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
> > > with the most kills and aces made.
>
> > However did they lose the war?
>
> > > It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.
>
> > Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
> > eh?
>
> So what Tom? Is that all you got? What excuse does the unbombed
> continental US Arsenal of Democracy have for not producing all better
> a/c that should have surpassed the Me Bf 109, the German jets, and all
> their advanced designs that the Allies used postwar in windtunnel
> data, prototypes, and some operational a/c?
>
> The US best ace, Richard Bong, flew a Lightning in the PTO and was
> killed by a XP-80. Where are all your P-51 Mustang aces to compare
> with the German Experten on lethal 109s? They weren't ****- they only
> held air superiority in numbers. Hell, even the primitive Russians
> kicked the US aces asses with more kills in inferior a/c.
>
> **** the P-51... it wasn't even **** until the redesigned D-Model
> anyway and the Me Bf 109Gs and Ks were not obsolete in 1945... just
> outnumbered 11-to-1 in the air.
>
> Hartmann, the ace of aces, said that the Mustang was nothing special.
> I concur wholeheartedly.
>
> Even Italians and Romanians shot down Mustangs...
>
> Ponder that Tommy-boy.
>
> Rob




The P-51 is just more US BULL****.

[[email protected]]

On Aug 21, 11:14 pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> On Aug 21, 9:20?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 21, 9:12?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 21, 5:48?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > > > > The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
> > > > > with the most kills and aces made.
>
> > > > However did they lose the war?
>
> > > > > It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.
>
> > > > Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
> > > > eh?
>
> > > So what Tom? Is that all you got? What excuse does the unbombed
> > > continental US Arsenal of Democracy have for not producing all better
> > > a/c that should have surpassed the Me Bf 109, the German jets, and all
> > > their advanced designs that the Allies used postwar in windtunnel
> > > data, prototypes, and some operational a/c?
>
> > > The US best ace, Richard Bong, flew a Lightning in the PTO and was
> > > killed by a XP-80. Where are all your P-51 Mustang aces to compare
> > > with the German Experten on lethal 109s? They weren't ****- they only
> > > held air superiority in numbers. Hell, even the primitive Russians
> > > kicked the US aces asses with more kills in inferior a/c.
>
> > > **** the P-51... it wasn't even **** until the redesigned D-Model
> > > anyway and the Me Bf 109Gs and Ks were not obsolete in 1945... just
> > > outnumbered 11-to-1 in the air.
>
> > > Hartmann, the ace of aces, said that the Mustang was nothing special.
> > > I concur wholeheartedly.
>
> > > Even Italians and Romanians shot down Mustangs...
>
> > > Ponder that Tommy-boy.
>
> > > Rob
>
> > And yet they lost the war. Ponder that.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -
>
> Ponder this Tom- NO USAF OR ANY OTHER NATIONAL AF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT
> HARTMANN'S SCORE OR THE SCORES OF MANY GERMAN ACES FROM THE 100 MARK
> UP. I DOUBT ANY USAF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT THE RED KNIGHT'S SCORE OF 80
> FROM WW 1. THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT IN WW2 OR ANY WAR THEREAFTER!


Hartmann for the most part was fighting inferior aircraft and the Red
Baron had an entire squadron protecting HIM while he did his hunting.





>
> 40 is a pathetic number in terms of German ace scores.
>
> Rob :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[[email protected]]

On Aug 22, 5:59 pm, tomcervo > wrote:
> On Aug 22, 1:14?am, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > Ponder this Tom- NO USAF OR ANY OTHER NATIONAL AF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT
> > HARTMANN'S SCORE OR THE SCORES OF MANY GERMAN ACES FROM THE 100 MARK
> > UP. I DOUBT ANY USAF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT THE RED KNIGHT'S SCORE OF 80
> > FROM WW 1. THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT IN WW2 OR ANY WAR THEREAFTER!
>
> Ponder this--those men who meet in Columbus may hold their heads high,
> knowing they fought and won a war to free the world from a murderous
> system of enslavement, while your Experten know they fought for the
> wrong cause and the world is glad that they lost--and that their
> grandchildren are ashamed of them.


LOL!!


They fought the FORD MOTOR CO./IBM/UNION BANK's created fascist state.

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 28, 12:09?pm, wrote:
> On Aug 21, 11:14 pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 21, 9:20?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>
> > > On Aug 21, 9:12?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > > > On Aug 21, 5:48?pm, tomcervo > wrote:
>
> > > > > On Aug 21, 8:40?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > > > > > The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
> > > > > > with the most kills and aces made.
>
> > > > > However did they lose the war?
>
> > > > > > It lived on beyond its Third Reich 1935-45 timeframe too.
>
> > > > > Nearly losing the war for the Israelis. Thank God for the Spitfire,
> > > > > eh?
>
> > > > So what Tom? Is that all you got? What excuse does the unbombed
> > > > continental US Arsenal of Democracy have for not producing all better
> > > > a/c that should have surpassed the Me Bf 109, the German jets, and all
> > > > their advanced designs that the Allies used postwar in windtunnel
> > > > data, prototypes, and some operational a/c?
>
> > > > The US best ace, Richard Bong, flew a Lightning in the PTO and was
> > > > killed by a XP-80. Where are all your P-51 Mustang aces to compare
> > > > with the German Experten on lethal 109s? They weren't ****- they only
> > > > held air superiority in numbers. Hell, even the primitive Russians
> > > > kicked the US aces asses with more kills in inferior a/c.
>
> > > > **** the P-51... it wasn't even **** until the redesigned D-Model
> > > > anyway and the Me Bf 109Gs and Ks were not obsolete in 1945... just
> > > > outnumbered 11-to-1 in the air.
>
> > > > Hartmann, the ace of aces, said that the Mustang was nothing special.
> > > > I concur wholeheartedly.
>
> > > > Even Italians and Romanians shot down Mustangs...
>
> > > > Ponder that Tommy-boy.
>
> > > > Rob
>
> > > And yet they lost the war. Ponder that.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > Ponder this Tom- NO USAF OR ANY OTHER NATIONAL AF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT
> > HARTMANN'S SCORE OR THE SCORES OF MANY GERMAN ACES FROM THE 100 MARK
> > UP. I DOUBT ANY USAF PILOT WILL EVER BEAT THE RED KNIGHT'S SCORE OF 80
> > FROM WW 1. THEY CERTAINLY DID NOT IN WW2 OR ANY WAR THEREAFTER!
>
> Hartmann for the most part was fighting inferior aircraft and the Red
> Baron had an entire squadron protecting HIM while he did his hunting.
>
>
>
>
>
> > 40 is a pathetic number in terms of German ace scores.
>
> > Rob :)- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hartmann's strategy was a simplistic one- get on your enemy's six
position and stay there, blasting away until the a/c is destroyed.
Hartmann did this to perfection and many times was struck by debris of
the enemy a/c since he was firing at almost point-blank range.

This started with the heavily armored Il-2s. Aiming for the vunerable
oil cooler meant you had to have great marksmanship and also be able
to hit at close range. Hartmann developed the close range strategy
from this and also his 'Last Ditch" maneuver that saved his life on
many occasions:

"As the enemy fighter approached, Hartmann used rudder to point his
fighter in a slightly different direction from the way it was going,
to mislead the attacker into misjudging the amount of deflection
required. When his opponent opened fire, Hartmann slammed the stick
into the far corner of the cockpit, putting his Messerschmitt into the
first half of an outside oblique loop."

- Luftwaffe Fighter Aces, Mike Spick

He also struck fear into the hearts of the entire VVS and USSR. He was
so feared that a price was put on his head. Even so, most VVS fighter
pilots fled when the saw his black tulip painted on his cowling or
heard his call sign "Karaya One". To them he was the "Black Devil".

When Hartmann ran into P-51s over Rumania he shot down 7 of them and
commented in his book that it was "nothing special".

He flew the Me Bf 109G.

So talk all the **** you want about the ace of aces with 352 kills and
WWI's Red Knight that had 80 kills.

No US fighter pilot or ANY combat pilot has reached those scores yet
and we are coming up to almost 100 years of aerial combat.

Rob

p.s. Even in another world war, which is certain to come, I don't
think the US will come anywhere near the German scores. I had a
braggart US naval aviator come to where I worked in the 1990s and
quickly put him to shame by asking him how good he thought he really
was. He replied, 'best in the world". I said "come back when you have
beaten the Red Knight's or Hartmann's scores... hmm, guess I'll never
see you again". He got all red faced and angry, and left. I was
waiting for that asshole to say something else. An asshole just like
you.

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

J a c k wrote:

>As far as "Bob" is concerned, though, I regret--and apologize
>for--cross-posting a forwarded message concerning the P-51's/Aces
>get-together to both r.a.soaring and r.a.military. It seems, along with
>the sports thread for which I am NOT responsible, to have degenerated
>here on r.a.s. much more quickly than most. I did not allow for it
>attracting the attention of Rob, who is notorious on r.a.m, and thus
>causing cross-pollution of r.a.s.

>Jack

It is simple to just ignore it. But appreciate your apology. Best to try and
keep that kind of stuff where it is.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/soaring/200708/1

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 28, 12:05?pm, wrote:
> On Aug 21, 6:40 pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Aug 21, 5:21?pm, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Dan wrote:
> > > > Rob Arndt wrote:
> > > >> On Aug 20, 8:11?pm, J a c k > wrote:
> > > >>> ------------ fwd ------------
>
> > > >>> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
> > > >>> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>
> > > >> "Legendary"? Ever hear of the Spitfire and Me Bf 109 plus Fw-190 that
> > > >> preceded it?
>
> > > > He said "few" not "no," didn't he? Stop being so sensitive.
>
> > > Well, aside from the Spitfire, those others are for losers. Dems de facks.
>
> > > --
> > > Mortimer Schnerd, RN
> > > mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com
>
> > The facts are that the Me Bf 109 is the gretest killing a/c in history
> > with the most kills and aces made. It lived on beyond its Third Reich
> > 1935-45 timeframe too.
>
> It was the ONLY fighter Germany had for a good part of the war. It
> stands to reason it would rack up a lot of kills.
>
> What would the Allied record look like if they only had Spits?
>
> It would show the Spit as the greatest killing aircraft of the war.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Mort, you are a loser.
>
> > Rob- Hide quoted text -
>
> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

The Fw-190 first flew in June 1939 an became operational in 1941.
20,000 were produced, almost 2/3rds of the production of 35,000 Me Bf
109s.

And yet the greatest killing machine ever is still the Me Bf 109.

What did Britain have throughout the war as main fighter? The Spit.
Early on there was the Hurricane and later on there was the Meteor. In
many ways Britain was like Germany in that regard. All Typhoons,
Tempests, Beaufighters, and Mossies were fighter-bombers or multi-role
a/c.

So what are you babbling on about?

The Spit is legendary in its own right, a beautiful design that
matched the longevity of the Me Bf 109 throughout the war and a tough
opponent... but Britain's pilots were not Luftwaffe Experten and only
slightly over 20,000 Spits were produced.

Rob

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

wrote:
> On Aug 20, 9:11 pm, J a c k > wrote:
>> ------------ fwd ------------
>>
>> Few aircraft are as legendary as the P-51. The aircraft and the
>> pilots who flew them during WWII are disappearing.
>>
>> This coming weekend, there will be a very special gathering in
>> Columbus, Ohio. They expect 120 P-51s to attend along with many
>> of the 80 or so remaining WWII Aces.
>>
>> See this link for details:http://www.gml2007.com/index.asp
>>
>> =========== end fwd ===========
>
>
>
>
> I knew a guy who flew P-51s. He also had time on the P-61, P-38, and
> was checked out on several other aircraft in the Pacific Theatre.
>
> He said the one plane he never got to fly but really wanted too was
> the Spitfire Mk XXI.
>
> He got into a mock dogfight with one over the Pacific in his P-51 and
> immediately became a fan of the Spit.
>
As a pure dog fighter, the 51 flown by the average pilot would be no
match for any of the Spits at low to medium altitudes if the Mustang
engaged while turning. Most of the 51 pilots were smart enough not to
engage in turning fights with low wing loaded opponents. The 51, as it
wraps up in a turn, develops a fair amount of drag rise and slows down
fast. It's sustained turn rate would be no match for the Spit.
The way to work a 51 against most low wing loaded fighters is in the
vertical oblique plane, coming on hard with a fair rate of closure
decreasing the angle off as nose to tail separation decreases, firing
through the pass at minimum range, then diving on through, extending,
then climbing back into the fight from another perch.
This seems to be the general consensus from the guys I know anyway, who
flew the Mustang in combat.

--
Dudley Henriques

[tomcervo]

On Aug 28, 4:26?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
I had a
> braggart US naval aviator come to where I worked in the 1990s and
> quickly put him to shame by asking him how good he thought he really
> was. He replied, 'best in the world". I said "come back when you have
> beaten the Red Knight's or Hartmann's scores... hmm, guess I'll never
> see you again". He got all red faced and angry, and left. I was
> waiting for that asshole to say something else. An asshole just like
> you

At least he'd handled a joystick other than the one he was born with.

[Dan[_2_]]

tomcervo wrote:
> On Aug 28, 4:26?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> I had a
>> braggart US naval aviator come to where I worked in the 1990s and
>> quickly put him to shame by asking him how good he thought he really
>> was. He replied, 'best in the world". I said "come back when you have
>> beaten the Red Knight's or Hartmann's scores... hmm, guess I'll never
>> see you again". He got all red faced and angry, and left. I was
>> waiting for that asshole to say something else. An asshole just like
>> you
>
> At least he'd handled a joystick other than the one he was born with.
>
Good point, a B-8 grip at least serves a purpose.

The aviator probably left rather than risk jail time for punching
the crap out of aren't and burying what was left in a match box. People
like aren't rely on other people's maturity when they spout off like
that. One can only hope he will learn sooner rather than later.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 28, 5:41?pm, Dan > wrote:
> tomcervo wrote:
> > On Aug 28, 4:26?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> > I had a
> >> braggart US naval aviator come to where I worked in the 1990s and
> >> quickly put him to shame by asking him how good he thought he really
> >> was. He replied, 'best in the world". I said "come back when you have
> >> beaten the Red Knight's or Hartmann's scores... hmm, guess I'll never
> >> see you again". He got all red faced and angry, and left. I was
> >> waiting for that asshole to say something else. An asshole just like
> >> you
>
> > At least he'd handled a joystick other than the one he was born with.
>
> Good point, a B-8 grip at least serves a purpose.
>
> The aviator probably left rather than risk jail time for punching
> the crap out of aren't and burying what was left in a match box. People
> like aren't rely on other people's maturity when they spout off like
> that. One can only hope he will learn sooner rather than later.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

That naval aviator had he chosen to fight would have had his arms and
legs broken- I would have made sure he wouldn't have been flying any
time soon afterwards. **** Dan, I am a big guy and worked construction
and warehouse all my life. I've dealth with real ganstas and hardcore
thugs from Folsom prison. That wimpy naval prick would have been
busted up badly had he thrown the first punch. He didn't even make a
move, the pretty boy. Being in the Navy means he probably was a queer
too and certainly didn't want to wrinkle his uniform.

Speaking of matchboxes... I'd like to meet your grandparents... what
German ashtray do you keep them in?

Rob :)

[Dan[_2_]]

Rob Arndt wrote:
> On Aug 28, 5:41?pm, Dan > wrote:
>> tomcervo wrote:
>>> On Aug 28, 4:26?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>>> I had a
>>>> braggart US naval aviator come to where I worked in the 1990s and
>>>> quickly put him to shame by asking him how good he thought he really
>>>> was. He replied, 'best in the world". I said "come back when you have
>>>> beaten the Red Knight's or Hartmann's scores... hmm, guess I'll never
>>>> see you again". He got all red faced and angry, and left. I was
>>>> waiting for that asshole to say something else. An asshole just like
>>>> you
>>> At least he'd handled a joystick other than the one he was born with.
>> Good point, a B-8 grip at least serves a purpose.
>>
>> The aviator probably left rather than risk jail time for punching
>> the crap out of aren't and burying what was left in a match box. People
>> like aren't rely on other people's maturity when they spout off like
>> that. One can only hope he will learn sooner rather than later.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> That naval aviator had he chosen to fight would have had his arms and
> legs broken- I would have made sure he wouldn't have been flying any
> time soon afterwards. **** Dan, I am a big guy and worked construction
> and warehouse all my life. I've dealth with real ganstas and hardcore
> thugs from Folsom prison. That wimpy naval prick would have been
> busted up badly had he thrown the first punch. He didn't even make a
> move, the pretty boy. Being in the Navy means he probably was a queer
> too and certainly didn't want to wrinkle his uniform.
>
> Speaking of matchboxes... I'd like to meet your grandparents... what
> German ashtray do you keep them in?
>
> Rob :)
>
And you are a liar. A few weeks ago you told us you were on
disability for diabetes.

I will ignore what you said about my family since you wouldn't say it
to my face. I won't stoop to your level and make comments about the
German half of your family.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 28, 7:29?pm, Dan > wrote:
> Rob Arndt wrote:
> > On Aug 28, 5:41?pm, Dan > wrote:
> >> tomcervo wrote:
> >>> On Aug 28, 4:26?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> >>> I had a
> >>>> braggart US naval aviator come to where I worked in the 1990s and
> >>>> quickly put him to shame by asking him how good he thought he really
> >>>> was. He replied, 'best in the world". I said "come back when you have
> >>>> beaten the Red Knight's or Hartmann's scores... hmm, guess I'll never
> >>>> see you again". He got all red faced and angry, and left. I was
> >>>> waiting for that asshole to say something else. An asshole just like
> >>>> you
> >>> At least he'd handled a joystick other than the one he was born with.
> >> Good point, a B-8 grip at least serves a purpose.
>
> >> The aviator probably left rather than risk jail time for punching
> >> the crap out of aren't and burying what was left in a match box. People
> >> like aren't rely on other people's maturity when they spout off like
> >> that. One can only hope he will learn sooner rather than later.
>
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> > That naval aviator had he chosen to fight would have had his arms and
> > legs broken- I would have made sure he wouldn't have been flying any
> > time soon afterwards. **** Dan, I am a big guy and worked construction
> > and warehouse all my life. I've dealth with real ganstas and hardcore
> > thugs from Folsom prison. That wimpy naval prick would have been
> > busted up badly had he thrown the first punch. He didn't even make a
> > move, the pretty boy. Being in the Navy means he probably was a queer
> > too and certainly didn't want to wrinkle his uniform.
>
> > Speaking of matchboxes... I'd like to meet your grandparents... what
> > German ashtray do you keep them in?
>
> > Rob :)
>
> And you are a liar. A few weeks ago you told us you were on
> disability for diabetes.
>
> I will ignore what you said about my family since you wouldn't say it
> to my face. I won't stoop to your level and make comments about the
> German half of your family.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.

Has your memory faded away so quickly?

If I were working F/T right now, how the hell could I post at my
leisure all day long and take care of my child at the same time?

I am just a few years younger than Gordon.

Rob

[Dan[_2_]]

Rob Arndt wrote:
> On Aug 28, 7:29?pm, Dan > wrote:
>> Rob Arndt wrote:
>>> On Aug 28, 5:41?pm, Dan > wrote:
>>>> tomcervo wrote:
>>>>> On Aug 28, 4:26?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>>>>> I had a
>>>>>> braggart US naval aviator come to where I worked in the 1990s and
>>>>>> quickly put him to shame by asking him how good he thought he really
>>>>>> was. He replied, 'best in the world". I said "come back when you have
>>>>>> beaten the Red Knight's or Hartmann's scores... hmm, guess I'll never
>>>>>> see you again". He got all red faced and angry, and left. I was
>>>>>> waiting for that asshole to say something else. An asshole just like
>>>>>> you
>>>>> At least he'd handled a joystick other than the one he was born with.
>>>> Good point, a B-8 grip at least serves a purpose.
>>>> The aviator probably left rather than risk jail time for punching
>>>> the crap out of aren't and burying what was left in a match box. People
>>>> like aren't rely on other people's maturity when they spout off like
>>>> that. One can only hope he will learn sooner rather than later.
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>> That naval aviator had he chosen to fight would have had his arms and
>>> legs broken- I would have made sure he wouldn't have been flying any
>>> time soon afterwards. **** Dan, I am a big guy and worked construction
>>> and warehouse all my life. I've dealth with real ganstas and hardcore
>>> thugs from Folsom prison. That wimpy naval prick would have been
>>> busted up badly had he thrown the first punch. He didn't even make a
>>> move, the pretty boy. Being in the Navy means he probably was a queer
>>> too and certainly didn't want to wrinkle his uniform.
>>> Speaking of matchboxes... I'd like to meet your grandparents... what
>>> German ashtray do you keep them in?
>>> Rob :)
>> And you are a liar. A few weeks ago you told us you were on
>> disability for diabetes.
>>
>> I will ignore what you said about my family since you wouldn't say it
>> to my face. I won't stoop to your level and make comments about the
>> German half of your family.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
>
> Has your memory faded away so quickly?
>
> If I were working F/T right now, how the hell could I post at my
> leisure all day long and take care of my child at the same time?
>
> I am just a few years younger than Gordon.
>
> Rob
>
Well, considering all the lies you have told us over the years who
knows?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Glenn Dowdy[_2_]]

> Rob Arndt wrote:

>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.

So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.

Glenn D.

[Dan[_2_]]

Glenn Dowdy wrote:
>> Rob Arndt wrote:
>
>>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
>>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
>>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
>
> So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
>
> Glenn D.
>
>
In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
German.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dave Kearton]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
| Glenn Dowdy wrote:
| >> Rob Arndt wrote:
| >
| >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
| >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
| >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
| >
| > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
| >
| > Glenn D.
| >
| >
| In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
| German.
|
| Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired





Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?




--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[Dan[_2_]]

Dave Kearton wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> | Glenn Dowdy wrote:
> | >> Rob Arndt wrote:
> | >
> | >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
> | >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
> | >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
> | >
> | > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
> | >
> | > Glenn D.
> | >
> | >
> | In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
> | German.
> |
> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>
>
>
>
> Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?
>
Let's just hope he doesn't reproduce. The Nazi eugenics programme
seems to have gone rapidly bad.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 28, 7:53?pm, "Glenn Dowdy" > wrote:
> > Rob Arndt wrote:
> >> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
> >> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
> >> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
>
> So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
>
> Glenn D.

Every human being gets sick and all of us die eventually of one thing
or another. I don't remember immortality on the list of German
technology and Nazi eugenics was in its infancy ;)

Rob

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 28, 8:17?pm, Dan > wrote:
> Glenn Dowdy wrote:
> >> Rob Arndt wrote:
>
> >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
> >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
> >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
>
> > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
>
> > Glenn D.
>
> In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
> German.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Wrong again, Dan. The refernce to German half was regarding those of
my family that stayed in Germany and those who emigrated to the US-
the blood is the same.

You have a problem b/c all that is required to be Jewish is a Jewish
mom. You are probably some mixed-breed. That's your problem.

Rob

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 28, 8:42?pm, Dan > wrote:
> Dave Kearton wrote:
> > "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> > | Glenn Dowdy wrote:
> > | >> Rob Arndt wrote:
> > | >
> > | >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
> > | >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
> > | >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
> > | >
> > | > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
> > | >
> > | > Glenn D.
> > | >
> > | >
> > | In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
> > | German.
> > |
> > | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> > Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?
>
> Let's just hope he doesn't reproduce. The Nazi eugenics programme
> seems to have gone rapidly bad.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Again, how ****ing stupid are you? I have a baby daughter.

Rob

[Dan[_2_]]

Rob Arndt wrote:
> On Aug 28, 8:17?pm, Dan > wrote:
>> Glenn Dowdy wrote:
>>>> Rob Arndt wrote:
>>>>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
>>>>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
>>>>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
>>> So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
>>> Glenn D.
>> In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
>> German.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Wrong again, Dan. The refernce to German half was regarding those of
> my family that stayed in Germany and those who emigrated to the US-
> the blood is the same.
>
> You have a problem b/c all that is required to be Jewish is a Jewish
> mom. You are probably some mixed-breed. That's your problem.
>
> Rob
>
And you wonder why everyone thinks you are a Nazi. It please me no
end you haven't reproduced.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 28, 9:51?pm, Dan > wrote:
> Rob Arndt wrote:
> > On Aug 28, 8:17?pm, Dan > wrote:
> >> Glenn Dowdy wrote:
> >>>> Rob Arndt wrote:
> >>>>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
> >>>>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
> >>>>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
> >>> So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
> >>> Glenn D.
> >> In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
> >> German.
>
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> > Wrong again, Dan. The refernce to German half was regarding those of
> > my family that stayed in Germany and those who emigrated to the US-
> > the blood is the same.
>
> > You have a problem b/c all that is required to be Jewish is a Jewish
> > mom. You are probably some mixed-breed. That's your problem.
>
> > Rob
>
> And you wonder why everyone thinks you are a Nazi. It please me no
> end you haven't reproduced.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I guess you can't read plain English or are senile...

Rob

[Dan[_2_]]

Rob Arndt wrote:
> On Aug 28, 8:42?pm, Dan > wrote:
>> Dave Kearton wrote:
>>> "Dan" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> | Glenn Dowdy wrote:
>>> | >> Rob Arndt wrote:
>>> | >
>>> | >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
>>> | >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
>>> | >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
>>> | >
>>> | > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
>>> | >
>>> | > Glenn D.
>>> | >
>>> | >
>>> | In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
>>> | German.
>>> |
>>> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>> Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?
>> Let's just hope he doesn't reproduce. The Nazi eugenics programme
>> seems to have gone rapidly bad.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Again, how ****ing stupid are you? I have a baby daughter.
>
> Rob
>
Let's see, a couple of years ago you tried to prove you aren't a Nazi
because you had a girlfriend named "Devi" who is Jewish, since then you
have told us you would never sleep with a Jewish woman, you told us you
would never have a child out of wedlock, you have told us your alleged
daughter "doesn't have a Jewish mother," and a few other variations,
lies and etc. You can't tell the truth to save your life. If in fact you
have a daughter I hope she grows up normal despite having a foul
mouthed, ill mannered, immature, insecure, stalking, admitted Nazi for a
father.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 28, 10:06?pm, Dan > wrote:
> Rob Arndt wrote:
> > On Aug 28, 8:42?pm, Dan > wrote:
> >> Dave Kearton wrote:
> >>> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>> | Glenn Dowdy wrote:
> >>> | >> Rob Arndt wrote:
> >>> | >
> >>> | >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
> >>> | >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
> >>> | >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
> >>> | >
> >>> | > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
> >>> | >
> >>> | > Glenn D.
> >>> | >
> >>> | >
> >>> | In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
> >>> | German.
> >>> |
> >>> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> >>> Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?
> >> Let's just hope he doesn't reproduce. The Nazi eugenics programme
> >> seems to have gone rapidly bad.
>
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Again, how ****ing stupid are you? I have a baby daughter.
>
> > Rob
>
> Let's see, a couple of years ago you tried to prove you aren't a Nazi
> because you had a girlfriend named "Devi" who is Jewish, since then you
> have told us you would never sleep with a Jewish woman, you told us you
> would never have a child out of wedlock, you have told us your alleged
> daughter "doesn't have a Jewish mother," and a few other variations,
> lies and etc. You can't tell the truth to save your life. If in fact you
> have a daughter I hope she grows up normal despite having a foul
> mouthed, ill mannered, immature, insecure, stalking, admitted Nazi for a
> father.
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Go to hell, you mongrel Jew dog. Everything you say is pathetic lies
and twisting words to suit your sicko warped mind. I think you are a
****ing child molester and sex offender, an admitted pervert into
naked little boys, child pornography laws, amazon woman fetish (a sure
sign of closet homosexuality) and people supposedly "obsessed with
your geriatric genitalia and sex life" (your words).

I am glad your wife is dead- she probably committed suicide, and I
**** on your personal service to the US.

If you aren't living in a nursing home, it must be a basement.

If you die tomorrow, no ****ing loss.

Rob

[Dave Kearton]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
| Rob Arndt wrote:
| > On Aug 28, 8:42?pm, Dan > wrote:
| >> Dave Kearton wrote:
| >>> "Dan" > wrote in message
| >>> ...
| >>> | Glenn Dowdy wrote:
| >>> | >> Rob Arndt wrote:
| >>> | >
| >>> | >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
| >>> | >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
| >>> | >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am
retired.
| >>> | >
| >>> | > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
| >>> | >
| >>> | > Glenn D.
| >>> | >
| >>> | >
| >>> | In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
| >>> | German.
| >>> |
| >>> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
| >>> Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?
| >> Let's just hope he doesn't reproduce. The Nazi eugenics programme
| >> seems to have gone rapidly bad.
| >>
| >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
| >>
| >> - Show quoted text -
| >
| > Again, how ****ing stupid are you? I have a baby daughter.
| >
| > Rob
| >
| Let's see, a couple of years ago you tried to prove you aren't a Nazi
| because you had a girlfriend named "Devi" who is Jewish, since then you
| have told us you would never sleep with a Jewish woman, you told us you
| would never have a child out of wedlock, you have told us your alleged
| daughter "doesn't have a Jewish mother," and a few other variations,
| lies and etc. You can't tell the truth to save your life. If in fact you
| have a daughter I hope she grows up normal despite having a foul
| mouthed, ill mannered, immature, insecure, stalking, admitted Nazi for a
| father.
|
| Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired




It sounds like the girl's father was a naval aviator....





--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[Dan[_2_]]

Rob Arndt wrote:
> On Aug 28, 10:06?pm, Dan > wrote:
>> Rob Arndt wrote:
>>> On Aug 28, 8:42?pm, Dan > wrote:
>>>> Dave Kearton wrote:
>>>>> "Dan" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>> | Glenn Dowdy wrote:
>>>>> | >> Rob Arndt wrote:
>>>>> | >
>>>>> | >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
>>>>> | >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
>>>>> | >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
>>>>> | >
>>>>> | > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
>>>>> | >
>>>>> | > Glenn D.
>>>>> | >
>>>>> | >
>>>>> | In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
>>>>> | German.
>>>>> |
>>>>> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>>> Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?
>>>> Let's just hope he doesn't reproduce. The Nazi eugenics programme
>>>> seems to have gone rapidly bad.
>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> Again, how ****ing stupid are you? I have a baby daughter.
>>> Rob
>> Let's see, a couple of years ago you tried to prove you aren't a Nazi
>> because you had a girlfriend named "Devi" who is Jewish, since then you
>> have told us you would never sleep with a Jewish woman, you told us you
>> would never have a child out of wedlock, you have told us your alleged
>> daughter "doesn't have a Jewish mother," and a few other variations,
>> lies and etc. You can't tell the truth to save your life. If in fact you
>> have a daughter I hope she grows up normal despite having a foul
>> mouthed, ill mannered, immature, insecure, stalking, admitted Nazi for a
>> father.
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Go to hell, you mongrel Jew dog. Everything you say is pathetic lies
> and twisting words to suit your sicko warped mind. I think you are a
> ****ing child molester and sex offender, an admitted pervert into
> naked little boys, child pornography laws, amazon woman fetish (a sure
> sign of closet homosexuality) and people supposedly "obsessed with
> your geriatric genitalia and sex life" (your words).
>
> I am glad your wife is dead- she probably committed suicide, and I
> **** on your personal service to the US.
>
> If you aren't living in a nursing home, it must be a basement.
>
> If you die tomorrow, no ****ing loss.
>
> Rob
>
>
Temper, temper, someone might imagine you stomping your feet. You
really must learn to control your anger issues.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dan[_2_]]

Dave Kearton wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> | Rob Arndt wrote:
> | > On Aug 28, 8:42?pm, Dan > wrote:
> | >> Dave Kearton wrote:
> | >>> "Dan" > wrote in message
> | >>> ...
> | >>> | Glenn Dowdy wrote:
> | >>> | >> Rob Arndt wrote:
> | >>> | >
> | >>> | >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
> | >>> | >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
> | >>> | >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am
> retired.
> | >>> | >
> | >>> | > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
> | >>> | >
> | >>> | > Glenn D.
> | >>> | >
> | >>> | >
> | >>> | In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
> | >>> | German.
> | >>> |
> | >>> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> | >>> Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?
> | >> Let's just hope he doesn't reproduce. The Nazi eugenics programme
> | >> seems to have gone rapidly bad.
> | >>
> | >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
> | >>
> | >> - Show quoted text -
> | >
> | > Again, how ****ing stupid are you? I have a baby daughter.
> | >
> | > Rob
> | >
> | Let's see, a couple of years ago you tried to prove you aren't a Nazi
> | because you had a girlfriend named "Devi" who is Jewish, since then you
> | have told us you would never sleep with a Jewish woman, you told us you
> | would never have a child out of wedlock, you have told us your alleged
> | daughter "doesn't have a Jewish mother," and a few other variations,
> | lies and etc. You can't tell the truth to save your life. If in fact you
> | have a daughter I hope she grows up normal despite having a foul
> | mouthed, ill mannered, immature, insecure, stalking, admitted Nazi for a
> | father.
> |
> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>
>
>
> It sounds like the girl's father was a naval aviator....
>
>
>
>
>
Dave, you know he's going to be most cross with you for that :)

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Dave Kearton]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
| Dave Kearton wrote:
| > "Dan" > wrote in message
| > ...
| > | Rob Arndt wrote:
| > | > On Aug 28, 8:42?pm, Dan > wrote:
| > | >> Dave Kearton wrote:
| > | >>> "Dan" > wrote in message
| > | >>> ...
| > | >>> | Glenn Dowdy wrote:
| > | >>> | >> Rob Arndt wrote:
| > | >>> | >
| > | >>> | >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in
the
| > | >>> | >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled
with
| > | >>> | >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am
| > retired.
| > | >>> | >
| > | >>> | > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
| > | >>> | >
| > | >>> | > Glenn D.
| > | >>> | >
| > | >>> | >
| > | >>> | In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only
half
| > | >>> | German.
| > | >>> |
| > | >>> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
| > | >>> Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?
| > | >> Let's just hope he doesn't reproduce. The Nazi eugenics
programme
| > | >> seems to have gone rapidly bad.
| > | >>
| > | >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
| > | >>
| > | >> - Show quoted text -
| > | >
| > | > Again, how ****ing stupid are you? I have a baby daughter.
| > | >
| > | > Rob
| > | >
| > | Let's see, a couple of years ago you tried to prove you aren't a
Nazi
| > | because you had a girlfriend named "Devi" who is Jewish, since then
you
| > | have told us you would never sleep with a Jewish woman, you told us
you
| > | would never have a child out of wedlock, you have told us your alleged
| > | daughter "doesn't have a Jewish mother," and a few other variations,
| > | lies and etc. You can't tell the truth to save your life. If in fact
you
| > | have a daughter I hope she grows up normal despite having a foul
| > | mouthed, ill mannered, immature, insecure, stalking, admitted Nazi for
a
| > | father.
| > |
| > | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
| >
| >
| >
| >
| > It sounds like the girl's father was a naval aviator....
| >
| >
| >
| >
| >
| Dave, you know he's going to be most cross with you for that :)
|
| Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired





Why, was it supposed to be a secret ?





--

Cheers

Dave Kearton

[Dan[_2_]]

Dave Kearton wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> | Dave Kearton wrote:
> | > "Dan" > wrote in message
> | > ...
> | > | Rob Arndt wrote:
> | > | > On Aug 28, 8:42?pm, Dan > wrote:
> | > | >> Dave Kearton wrote:
> | > | >>> "Dan" > wrote in message
> | > | >>> ...
> | > | >>> | Glenn Dowdy wrote:
> | > | >>> | >> Rob Arndt wrote:
> | > | >>> | >
> | > | >>> | >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in
> the
> | > | >>> | >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled
> with
> | > | >>> | >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am
> | > retired.
> | > | >>> | >
> | > | >>> | > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
> | > | >>> | >
> | > | >>> | > Glenn D.
> | > | >>> | >
> | > | >>> | >
> | > | >>> | In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only
> half
> | > | >>> | German.
> | > | >>> |
> | > | >>> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> | > | >>> Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?
> | > | >> Let's just hope he doesn't reproduce. The Nazi eugenics
> programme
> | > | >> seems to have gone rapidly bad.
> | > | >>
> | > | >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
> | > | >>
> | > | >> - Show quoted text -
> | > | >
> | > | > Again, how ****ing stupid are you? I have a baby daughter.
> | > | >
> | > | > Rob
> | > | >
> | > | Let's see, a couple of years ago you tried to prove you aren't a
> Nazi
> | > | because you had a girlfriend named "Devi" who is Jewish, since then
> you
> | > | have told us you would never sleep with a Jewish woman, you told us
> you
> | > | would never have a child out of wedlock, you have told us your alleged
> | > | daughter "doesn't have a Jewish mother," and a few other variations,
> | > | lies and etc. You can't tell the truth to save your life. If in fact
> you
> | > | have a daughter I hope she grows up normal despite having a foul
> | > | mouthed, ill mannered, immature, insecure, stalking, admitted Nazi for
> a
> | > | father.
> | > |
> | > | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | > It sounds like the girl's father was a naval aviator....
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | Dave, you know he's going to be most cross with you for that :)
> |
> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
>
>
>
>
> Why, was it supposed to be a secret ?
>
>
Well, it could explain quite a few things.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[tomcervo]

On Aug 28, 10:05?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> That naval aviator had he chosen to fight would have had his arms and
> legs broken- I would have made sure he wouldn't have been flying any
> time soon afterwards. **** Dan, I am a big guy and worked construction
> and warehouse all my life. I've dealth with real ganstas and hardcore
> thugs from Folsom prison. That wimpy naval prick would have been
> busted up badly had he thrown the first punch. He didn't even make a
> move, the pretty boy. Being in the Navy means he probably was a queer
> too and certainly didn't want to wrinkle his uniform.

You don't get it, do you.
He's a NAVAL AVIATOR, who flew the top of the line navy fighter, and
you . . . don't seem to have flown anything more than a keyboard.
You're a big guy. Big guys load the ordnance on a plane he flies at
Mach 2. Your opinion means about as much to him as that of the guy
yelling **** from the steam grate he sleeps on.

[Bullwinkle]

On 8/29/07 5:54 AM, in article
om, "tomcervo"
> wrote:

> On Aug 28, 10:05?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>> That naval aviator had he chosen to fight would have had his arms and
>> legs broken- I would have made sure he wouldn't have been flying any
>> time soon afterwards. **** Dan, I am a big guy and worked construction
>> and warehouse all my life. I've dealth with real ganstas and hardcore
>> thugs from Folsom prison. That wimpy naval prick would have been
>> busted up badly had he thrown the first punch. He didn't even make a
>> move, the pretty boy. Being in the Navy means he probably was a queer
>> too and certainly didn't want to wrinkle his uniform.
>
> You don't get it, do you.
> He's a NAVAL AVIATOR, who flew the top of the line navy fighter, and
> you . . . don't seem to have flown anything more than a keyboard.
> You're a big guy. Big guys load the ordnance on a plane he flies at
> Mach 2. Your opinion means about as much to him as that of the guy
> yelling **** from the steam grate he sleeps on.
>

Hey, guys: those of us who fly gliders appreciate the notification about the
P-51 thing. Really.

But now that the discussion has degenerated into puerile name calling and
kindergarten level "I'm tougher than you" posturing, please take it
elsewhere. At least take it off rec.aviation.soaring.

Thanks in advance.

[Paul Elliot]

Dan wrote:
> Rob Arndt wrote:
>> On Aug 28, 7:29?pm, Dan > wrote:
>>> Rob Arndt wrote:
>>>> On Aug 28, 5:41?pm, Dan > wrote:
>>>>> tomcervo wrote:
>>>>>> On Aug 28, 4:26?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>>>>>> I had a
>>>>>>> braggart US naval aviator come to where I worked in the 1990s and
>>>>>>> quickly put him to shame by asking him how good he thought he really
>>>>>>> was. He replied, 'best in the world". I said "come back when you
>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>> beaten the Red Knight's or Hartmann's scores... hmm, guess I'll
>>>>>>> never
>>>>>>> see you again". He got all red faced and angry, and left. I was
>>>>>>> waiting for that asshole to say something else. An asshole just like
>>>>>>> you
>>>>>> At least he'd handled a joystick other than the one he was born with.
>>>>> Good point, a B-8 grip at least serves a purpose.
>>>>> The aviator probably left rather than risk jail time for punching
>>>>> the crap out of aren't and burying what was left in a match box.
>>>>> People
>>>>> like aren't rely on other people's maturity when they spout off like
>>>>> that. One can only hope he will learn sooner rather than later.
>>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>>>> That naval aviator had he chosen to fight would have had his arms and
>>>> legs broken- I would have made sure he wouldn't have been flying any
>>>> time soon afterwards. **** Dan, I am a big guy and worked construction
>>>> and warehouse all my life. I've dealth with real ganstas and hardcore
>>>> thugs from Folsom prison. That wimpy naval prick would have been
>>>> busted up badly had he thrown the first punch. He didn't even make a
>>>> move, the pretty boy. Being in the Navy means he probably was a queer
>>>> too and certainly didn't want to wrinkle his uniform.
>>>> Speaking of matchboxes... I'd like to meet your grandparents... what
>>>> German ashtray do you keep them in?
>>>> Rob :)
>>> And you are a liar. A few weeks ago you told us you were on
>>> disability for diabetes.
>>>
>>> I will ignore what you said about my family since you wouldn't say it
>>> to my face. I won't stoop to your level and make comments about the
>>> German half of your family.
>>>
>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>>>
>>> - Show quoted text -
>>
>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
>>
>> Has your memory faded away so quickly?
>>
>> If I were working F/T right now, how the hell could I post at my
>> leisure all day long and take care of my child at the same time?
>>
>> I am just a few years younger than Gordon.
>>
>> Rob
>>
> Well, considering all the lies you have told us over the years who
> knows?
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Maybe I'll drop in on Rob next time I'm visiting in Folsom.
:-)

--
Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.

http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

Rob Arndt wrote:
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
>Go to hell, you mongrel Jew dog. >
>I am glad your wife is dead- she probably committed suicide, and I
>**** on your personal service to the US.

>If you die tomorrow, no ****ing loss.
>
>Rob

Jeesus..who is this guy?
This is the most pathetic exchange I have ever seen.
Can admins close threads here?
This is really pitiful

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 29, 4:54?am, tomcervo > wrote:
> On Aug 28, 10:05?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>
> > That naval aviator had he chosen to fight would have had his arms and
> > legs broken- I would have made sure he wouldn't have been flying any
> > time soon afterwards. **** Dan, I am a big guy and worked construction
> > and warehouse all my life. I've dealth with real ganstas and hardcore
> > thugs from Folsom prison. That wimpy naval prick would have been
> > busted up badly had he thrown the first punch. He didn't even make a
> > move, the pretty boy. Being in the Navy means he probably was a queer
> > too and certainly didn't want to wrinkle his uniform.
>
> You don't get it, do you.
> He's a NAVAL AVIATOR, who flew the top of the line navy fighter, and
> you . . . don't seem to have flown anything more than a keyboard.
> You're a big guy. Big guys load the ordnance on a plane he flies at
> Mach 2. Your opinion means about as much to him as that of the guy
> yelling **** from the steam grate he sleeps on.

You don't get it, that naval aviator is not an entity unto himself- he
relies completely on the US taxpayer to foot the bill for his carrier,
all of its weaponry, and its entire operation. Onboard, he is part of
an operation and relies completely on the deck crews. Get some "big
guy" that ****s up his ordnance and his top of the line fighter
becomes impotent- flying scrap metal.

As far as his opinion goes, who here worships a naval aviator? These
are the same braggarts that think they are something special b/c they
can land on a carrier and put down the USAF pilots all the time.

BTW, how the **** do you know if he was flying an old F-14 or a F/A-18
or something else???

Answer that dickhead.

Rob

p.s. And if he was God-D good, then it really must be shameful that
the inexperienced Germans beat both the USN and USMC with their de-
tuned MiG-29s :)

[Rob Arndt[_2_]]

On Aug 29, 6:53?am, Paul Elliot > wrote:
> Dan wrote:
> > Rob Arndt wrote:
> >> On Aug 28, 7:29?pm, Dan > wrote:
> >>> Rob Arndt wrote:
> >>>> On Aug 28, 5:41?pm, Dan > wrote:
> >>>>> tomcervo wrote:
> >>>>>> On Aug 28, 4:26?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
> >>>>>> I had a
> >>>>>>> braggart US naval aviator come to where I worked in the 1990s and
> >>>>>>> quickly put him to shame by asking him how good he thought he really
> >>>>>>> was. He replied, 'best in the world". I said "come back when you
> >>>>>>> have
> >>>>>>> beaten the Red Knight's or Hartmann's scores... hmm, guess I'll
> >>>>>>> never
> >>>>>>> see you again". He got all red faced and angry, and left. I was
> >>>>>>> waiting for that asshole to say something else. An asshole just like
> >>>>>>> you
> >>>>>> At least he'd handled a joystick other than the one he was born with.
> >>>>> Good point, a B-8 grip at least serves a purpose.
> >>>>> The aviator probably left rather than risk jail time for punching
> >>>>> the crap out of aren't and burying what was left in a match box.
> >>>>> People
> >>>>> like aren't rely on other people's maturity when they spout off like
> >>>>> that. One can only hope he will learn sooner rather than later.
> >>>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> >>>> That naval aviator had he chosen to fight would have had his arms and
> >>>> legs broken- I would have made sure he wouldn't have been flying any
> >>>> time soon afterwards. **** Dan, I am a big guy and worked construction
> >>>> and warehouse all my life. I've dealth with real ganstas and hardcore
> >>>> thugs from Folsom prison. That wimpy naval prick would have been
> >>>> busted up badly had he thrown the first punch. He didn't even make a
> >>>> move, the pretty boy. Being in the Navy means he probably was a queer
> >>>> too and certainly didn't want to wrinkle his uniform.
> >>>> Speaking of matchboxes... I'd like to meet your grandparents... what
> >>>> German ashtray do you keep them in?
> >>>> Rob :)
> >>> And you are a liar. A few weeks ago you told us you were on
> >>> disability for diabetes.
>
> >>> I will ignore what you said about my family since you wouldn't say it
> >>> to my face. I won't stoop to your level and make comments about the
> >>> German half of your family.
>
> >>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>
> >>> - Show quoted text -
>
> >> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
> >> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
> >> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
>
> >> Has your memory faded away so quickly?
>
> >> If I were working F/T right now, how the hell could I post at my
> >> leisure all day long and take care of my child at the same time?
>
> >> I am just a few years younger than Gordon.
>
> >> Rob
>
> > Well, considering all the lies you have told us over the years who
> > knows?
>
> > Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Maybe I'll drop in on Rob next time I'm visiting in Folsom.
> :-)
>
> --
> Heaven is where the police are British, the chefs Italian, the mechanics
> German, the lovers French and it is all organized by the Swiss.
>
> Hell is where the police are German, the chefs British, the mechanics
> French, the lovers Swiss and it is all organized by Italians.
>
> http://new.photos.yahoo.com/paul1cart/albums/- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Will you be visiting your friends or relatives in prison?

Kinda hard to visit me since I'm in Sac...

Rob

[Wayne Paul]

Gentlemen (?);

Please remove the rec.aviation.soaring newsgroup from your responses.

Thank you,

Wayne Paul
http://www.soaridaho.com/

[Duncan Riddle]

Bullwinkle wrote:
> On 8/29/07 5:54 AM, in article
> om, "tomcervo"
> > wrote:
>
>
>>On Aug 28, 10:05?pm, Rob Arndt > wrote:
>>
>>><some crap>
>>
>><some other stuff, by tomcervo>
>
>
> Hey, guys: those of us who fly gliders appreciate the notification about the
> P-51 thing. Really.
>
> But now that the discussion has degenerated into puerile name calling and
> kindergarten level "I'm tougher than you" posturing, please take it
> elsewhere. At least take it off rec.aviation.soaring.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
>

What, and miss out on how good threads go bad the r.a.m way, when Rob
and Dan get at it?

--
Duncan (debating on whether to kill this thread or wait a while longer)

[J a c k]

Duncan Riddle wrote [from r.a.m.]:

> Bullwinkle wrote:
>>
>> Hey, guys: those of us who fly gliders appreciate the notification
>> about the P-51 thing. Really.
>>
>> But now that the discussion has degenerated into puerile name calling and
>> kindergarten level "I'm tougher than you" posturing, please take it
>> elsewhere. At least take it off rec.aviation.soaring.
>
> What, and miss out on how good threads go bad the r.a.m way, when Rob
> and Dan get at it?


See, BW, the thing is: you gotta remove r.a.s. from the "to" line before
you send. It's tricky, I know, but now they know where we live.


Jack

[Bullwinkle]

On 8/29/07 3:49 PM, in article
, "J a c k"
> wrote:

> Duncan Riddle wrote [from r.a.m.]:
>
>> Bullwinkle wrote:
>>>
>>> Hey, guys: those of us who fly gliders appreciate the notification
>>> about the P-51 thing. Really.
>>>
>>> But now that the discussion has degenerated into puerile name calling and
>>> kindergarten level "I'm tougher than you" posturing, please take it
>>> elsewhere. At least take it off rec.aviation.soaring.
>>
>> What, and miss out on how good threads go bad the r.a.m way, when Rob
>> and Dan get at it?
>
>
> See, BW, the thing is: you gotta remove r.a.s. from the "to" line before
> you send. It's tricky, I know, but now they know where we live.
>
>
> Jack

Jack,

You mean it gets worse than it has been, if they know where we live? ;-)

I've already killfiled Dan and Rob.

Bullwinkle

[Scott M. Kozel]

On Aug 29, 1:33 am, Dan > wrote:
> Rob Arndt wrote:
> > On Aug 28, 10:06?pm, Dan > wrote:
> >> Rob Arndt wrote:
> >>> On Aug 28, 8:42?pm, Dan > wrote:
> >>>> Dave Kearton wrote:
> >>>>> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>>> | Glenn Dowdy wrote:
> >>>>> | >> Rob Arndt wrote:
> >>>>> | >
> >>>>> | >>> I am not a liar at all, you moron. That incident happened in the
> >>>>> | >>> 1990s. What year is it Dan? Gee, 2007. I have been disabled with
> >>>>> | >>> diabetes type II since 2004 and have already told you I am retired.
> >>>>> | >
> >>>>> | > So much for superior Teutonic bloodlines.
> >>>>> | >
> >>>>> | > Glenn D.
> >>>>> | >
> >>>>> | >
> >>>>> | In another thread a couple of weeks ago he admitted he's only half
> >>>>> | German.
> >>>>> |
> >>>>> | Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
> >>>>> Does that now mean that only one of his parents is an idiot ?
> >>>> Let's just hope he doesn't reproduce. The Nazi eugenics programme
> >>>> seems to have gone rapidly bad.
> >>>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> Again, how ****ing stupid are you? I have a baby daughter.
> >>> Rob
> >> Let's see, a couple of years ago you tried to prove you aren't a Nazi
> >> because you had a girlfriend named "Devi" who is Jewish, since then you
> >> have told us you would never sleep with a Jewish woman, you told us you
> >> would never have a child out of wedlock, you have told us your alleged
> >> daughter "doesn't have a Jewish mother," and a few other variations,
> >> lies and etc. You can't tell the truth to save your life. If in fact you
> >> have a daughter I hope she grows up normal despite having a foul
> >> mouthed, ill mannered, immature, insecure, stalking, admitted Nazi for a
> >> father.
>
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Go to hell, you mongrel Jew dog. Everything you say is pathetic lies
> > and twisting words to suit your sicko warped mind. I think you are a
> > ****ing child molester and sex offender, an admitted pervert into
> > naked little boys, child pornography laws, amazon woman fetish (a sure
> > sign of closet homosexuality) and people supposedly "obsessed with
> > your geriatric genitalia and sex life" (your words).
>
> > I am glad your wife is dead- she probably committed suicide, and I
> > **** on your personal service to the US.
>
> > If you aren't living in a nursing home, it must be a basement.
>
> > If you die tomorrow, no ****ing loss.
>
> > Rob
>
> Temper, temper, someone might imagine you stomping your feet. You
> really must learn to control your anger issues.

Looks like you made the Kraut angry!

[J a c k]

Bullwinkle wrote:

> You mean it gets worse than it has been, if they know where we live? ;-)
>
> I've already kill filed Dan and Rob.


Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?


Jack

[Peter Stickney]

Scott M. Kozel wrote:

> On Aug 29, 1:33 am, Dan > wrote:
>> Rob Arndt wrote:

>> Temper, temper, someone might imagine you stomping your feet. You
>> really must learn to control your anger issues.
>
> Looks like you made the Kraut angry!

So who won the pool this time?
We probably also need to start taking side bets - the spread's narrowing
down.
--
Pete Stickney
Without data, all you have is an opinion