Shipping a Radar-Advice?

[Al G[_1_]]

A friend has recently updated his C210's avionics with a largely Garmin
panel. Among the things removed was a King RDS81 weather radar. I've found a
buyer in Florida, and have to figure out how to get it there from Oregon, as
safely as possible. We don't have to ship the pod, just the
receiver/transmitter and display. The R/T is probably 12" x 12", and weighs
about 15 lbs.

Any ideas?

I talked with our local Bendix/King Dealer in Troutdale, and he says
that he uses a box from Honeywell for about $50. He did not say how to get
one or who to talk to.

On a related note, if anyone needs a radar pod for a 210, I know where
you can get one for a nominal fee. It might make a good external/drop tank
for a homebuilt. It is about 13-14" in diameter, about 3' long, and has a
removable nose cone.


Al G

[Jim Stewart]

Al G wrote:
> A friend has recently updated his C210's avionics with a largely Garmin
> panel. Among the things removed was a King RDS81 weather radar. I've found a
> buyer in Florida, and have to figure out how to get it there from Oregon, as
> safely as possible. We don't have to ship the pod, just the
> receiver/transmitter and display. The R/T is probably 12" x 12", and weighs
> about 15 lbs.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> I talked with our local Bendix/King Dealer in Troutdale, and he says
> that he uses a box from Honeywell for about $50. He did not say how to get
> one or who to talk to.
>
> On a related note, if anyone needs a radar pod for a 210, I know where
> you can get one for a nominal fee. It might make a good external/drop tank
> for a homebuilt. It is about 13-14" in diameter, about 3' long, and has a
> removable nose cone.
>
>
> Al G

Fedex 2 day air. Antistatic bubblewrap and packing
worms.

We've done several Fedex air shipments per day, all
with electronics, for the last 12 years. I can't
remember the last time one was lost or damaged.

Avoid ground service like the plague if you're worried
about loss or damage.

[Al G[_1_]]

"Jim Stewart" > wrote in message
.. .
> Al G wrote:
>> A friend has recently updated his C210's avionics with a largely
>> Garmin panel. Among the things removed was a King RDS81 weather radar.
>> I've found a buyer in Florida, and have to figure out how to get it there
>> from Oregon, as safely as possible. We don't have to ship the pod, just
>> the receiver/transmitter and display. The R/T is probably 12" x 12", and
>> weighs about 15 lbs.
>>
>> Any ideas?
>>
>> I talked with our local Bendix/King Dealer in Troutdale, and he says
>> that he uses a box from Honeywell for about $50. He did not say how to
>> get one or who to talk to.
>>
>> On a related note, if anyone needs a radar pod for a 210, I know
>> where you can get one for a nominal fee. It might make a good
>> external/drop tank for a homebuilt. It is about 13-14" in diameter, about
>> 3' long, and has a removable nose cone.
>>
>>
>> Al G
>
> Fedex 2 day air. Antistatic bubblewrap and packing
> worms.
>
> We've done several Fedex air shipments per day, all
> with electronics, for the last 12 years. I can't
> remember the last time one was lost or damaged.
>
> Avoid ground service like the plague if you're worried
> about loss or damage.

Thanks Jim,

Just Bubble wrap? No hard box?

Does FedEx offer special handling? This would certainly be easiest.

Al G

[Jim Stewart]

Al G wrote:
> "Jim Stewart" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Al G wrote:
>>> A friend has recently updated his C210's avionics with a largely
>>> Garmin panel. Among the things removed was a King RDS81 weather radar.
>>> I've found a buyer in Florida, and have to figure out how to get it there
>>> from Oregon, as safely as possible. We don't have to ship the pod, just
>>> the receiver/transmitter and display. The R/T is probably 12" x 12", and
>>> weighs about 15 lbs.
>>>
>>> Any ideas?
>>>
>>> I talked with our local Bendix/King Dealer in Troutdale, and he says
>>> that he uses a box from Honeywell for about $50. He did not say how to
>>> get one or who to talk to.
>>>
>>> On a related note, if anyone needs a radar pod for a 210, I know
>>> where you can get one for a nominal fee. It might make a good
>>> external/drop tank for a homebuilt. It is about 13-14" in diameter, about
>>> 3' long, and has a removable nose cone.
>>>
>>>
>>> Al G
>> Fedex 2 day air. Antistatic bubblewrap and packing
>> worms.
>>
>> We've done several Fedex air shipments per day, all
>> with electronics, for the last 12 years. I can't
>> remember the last time one was lost or damaged.
>>
>> Avoid ground service like the plague if you're worried
>> about loss or damage.
>
> Thanks Jim,
>
> Just Bubble wrap? No hard box?

You'll need a cardboard box. Most packing stores will
have something that will work.

> Does FedEx offer special handling? This would certainly be easiest.

No need for special handling. What you might want
is to find a Fedex/Kinko's and let them pack it
for you.


> Al G
>
>

[smf]

How much do you want for the Pod? I have a Glasair with hard point
attachments on the centerline under the plane. It might make a good mini
baggage compartment. Then again I could be mistaken for a warbird.

Steve

"Al G" > wrote in message
...
> A friend has recently updated his C210's avionics with a largely Garmin
> panel. Among the things removed was a King RDS81 weather radar. I've found
> a buyer in Florida, and have to figure out how to get it there from
> Oregon, as safely as possible. We don't have to ship the pod, just the
> receiver/transmitter and display. The R/T is probably 12" x 12", and
> weighs about 15 lbs.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> I talked with our local Bendix/King Dealer in Troutdale, and he says
> that he uses a box from Honeywell for about $50. He did not say how to get
> one or who to talk to.
>
> On a related note, if anyone needs a radar pod for a 210, I know where
> you can get one for a nominal fee. It might make a good external/drop tank
> for a homebuilt. It is about 13-14" in diameter, about 3' long, and has a
> removable nose cone.
>
>
> Al G
>
>

[Jim Stewart]

smf wrote:
> How much do you want for the Pod? I have a Glasair with hard point
> attachments on the centerline under the plane. It might make a good mini
> baggage compartment. Then again I could be mistaken for a warbird.

Sounds like homeland security bait to me (:

[RST Engineering]

YOu are going to WAY too much trouble. I'd use a virgin cardboard box
about 2x or 3x the volume of the shipment, pack the electronics in a double
wrap of bubble wrap, put a few inches of plastic peanuts in the bottom of
the box, put the heaviest unit in the bottom, fill over the top of that box
with peanuts, put in the lighter of the two units on top of the box, fill
with peanuts and tape the box shut.

You will find that shipping by FedEx air will reduce your probability of
damage to near zero, but I'd still opt for the insurance at the replacement
cost rate.

Do NOT ship UPS. Those *******s will find a way to screw up the process one
way or another, and we ship two to three hundred packages a year.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford


"Al G" > wrote in message
...
> A friend has recently updated his C210's avionics with a largely Garmin
> panel. Among the things removed was a King RDS81 weather radar. I've found
> a buyer in Florida, and have to figure out how to get it there from
> Oregon, as safely as possible. We don't have to ship the pod, just the
> receiver/transmitter and display. The R/T is probably 12" x 12", and
> weighs about 15 lbs.

[[email protected]]

In rec.aviation.piloting Al G > wrote:
> We don't have to ship the pod, just the [radar] receiver/transmitter
> and display. The R/T is probably 12" x 12", and weighs about 15 lbs.

One place I worked had to ship PCs across the country on a regular
basis. These were the usual mid-tower PC cases, about 8" x 16" x 16"
(20 x 40 x 40 cm). What ended up working the best was a heavy wall
cardboard box that was about 3" (7.5 cm) larger than the PC all
around, or about 14" x 22" x 22" (35 x 55 x 55 cm). One of the 22" x
22" sides was the top. There was 3" of foam in the bottom and against
the sides of the box. (Think "stiff seat cushion foam", not "foam
coffee cup.") The PC was laid in the middle of the box and another 3"
piece of foam went over it, then the box was taped shut. Once they
started using this packaging, we stopped having to reassemble each PC
when it got to the recipient.

They were able to get the foam and boxes made to order due to their
volume, but there is no reason you couldn't duplicate this with
packing peanuts. If you do use packing peanuts, put each individual
item in a plastic bag first - this keeps the recipient from having to
clean packing peanuts and little tiny pieces of packing peanuts out
of every crevice. If you're going to wrap the item with bubble wrap,
you can forgo the plastic bag, *as long as you tape up the bubble wrap*
so peanuts can't migrate into it. For electronics, you really should
use anti-static bags (silver or pink) or bubble wrap (usually pink).

Matt Roberds

[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 24 Aug 2007 23:05:40 -0700, "RST Engineering"
> wrote:

> YOu are going to WAY too much trouble. I'd use a virgin cardboard box
>about 2x or 3x the volume of the shipment, pack the electronics in a double
>wrap of bubble wrap, put a few inches of plastic peanuts in the bottom of
>the box, put the heaviest unit in the bottom, fill over the top of that box
>with peanuts, put in the lighter of the two units on top of the box, fill
>with peanuts and tape the box shut.
>
>You will find that shipping by FedEx air will reduce your probability of
>damage to near zero, but I'd still opt for the insurance at the replacement
>cost rate.
>
>Do NOT ship UPS. Those *******s will find a way to screw up the process one
>way or another, and we ship two to three hundred packages a year.

Good advice for packing. As another data point, our bike shop's
experience is exactly the opposite for the two shipping companies
mentioned.

One other packing tip is to not pack the box overly tight. The
shipping materials need to have a bit of give to do the job. While
it's hard to describe, the box should be full, but not stuffed.
Crumpled newsprint also works amazingly well.

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"Al G" > writes:

> A friend has recently updated his C210's avionics with a largely
> Garmin panel. Among the things removed was a King RDS81 weather
> radar. [...] have to figure out how to get it there from Oregon, as
> safely as possible. [...] The R/T is probably 12" x 12", and weighs
> about 15 lbs.[...]

The thought makes me squirm. What some here may not realize is how
fragile the radar antenna can be. There is a sticker on mine (old
King RDR160) that warns against even *touching* the movable parts. I
would not risk plain old packing peanuts or bubble wrap, if the box
being held sideways or upside down causes a load upon these parts.

http://web.elastic.org/~fche/gallery2/v/aviation/2004/dsc_4423.jpg.html

- FChE

[Peter Dohm]

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Al G" > writes:
>
> > A friend has recently updated his C210's avionics with a largely
> > Garmin panel. Among the things removed was a King RDS81 weather
> > radar. [...] have to figure out how to get it there from Oregon, as
> > safely as possible. [...] The R/T is probably 12" x 12", and weighs
> > about 15 lbs.[...]
>
> The thought makes me squirm. What some here may not realize is how
> fragile the radar antenna can be. There is a sticker on mine (old
> King RDR160) that warns against even *touching* the movable parts. I
> would not risk plain old packing peanuts or bubble wrap, if the box
> being held sideways or upside down causes a load upon these parts.
>
> http://web.elastic.org/~fche/gallery2/v/aviation/2004/dsc_4423.jpg.html
>
> - FChE

If that is really the case, which is quite possible, then the OP would be
faced with the prospect of engineering a real shipping crate within a
crate--or of renting one. If renting, the radar manufacturer might be a
source. Alternatively, the may have shipping instructions available.

It has now been about 20 years since I have handled this type of equipement,
although I have shipped a few computers since; but, to the best of my
recollection, the flat panel (slotted waveguide) antennas were much less
fragile than the parabolic antennas. However, with either type, the most
correct method of packing is to mount the intenna to the inside of one wall
of a rigid crate. The crate can then be placed inside a larger bax and
cushioned with bubble wrap, popcorn, etc. While the cushioning material
should not be overly compressed, it sould not be loose either--especially if
you use something like popcorn--or the inner box may be resting on the botom
by the time you bring it to the counter!

My experiences were always good with FedEx, Airborne, and RedBall. I am
sorry that no other such names come readily to mind.

Peter

[Judah]

(Frank Ch. Eigler) wrote in
:

> The thought makes me squirm. What some here may not realize is how
> fragile the radar antenna can be. There is a sticker on mine (old
> King RDR160) that warns against even *touching* the movable parts. I
> would not risk plain old packing peanuts or bubble wrap, if the box
> being held sideways or upside down causes a load upon these parts.

What happens in turbulence?

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

Judah wrote:

>> [...] What some here may not realize is how fragile the radar
>> antenna can be. [...] I would not risk plain old packing peanuts
>> or bubble wrap, if the box being held sideways or upside down
>> causes a load upon these parts.

> What happens in turbulence?

Clearly, it can handle that, but then it has only a few
ounces/decagrams of mass (the fragile mast in the middle) to move
along. If one tries to push the ten-pound magnetron/etc. disc through
the mast, a hundred times as much force would pass through the part.

- FChE

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
...
>
> Judah wrote:
>
>>> [...] What some here may not realize is how fragile the radar
>>> antenna can be. [...] I would not risk plain old packing peanuts
>>> or bubble wrap, if the box being held sideways or upside down
>>> causes a load upon these parts.
>
>> What happens in turbulence?
>
> Clearly, it can handle that, but then it has only a few
> ounces/decagrams of mass (the fragile mast in the middle) to move
> along. If one tries to push the ten-pound magnetron/etc. disc through
> the mast, a hundred times as much force would pass through the part.

So it sounds like mounting the radar to a piece of plywood, or something,
(like it is mounted on an airplane) and fastening that in a box, then
surrounding it with peanuts would be the right thing to do, no?
--
Jim in NC

[RST Engineering]

Actually (a) the OP said he wanted to ship the RT unit and the display;
never said a frikkin' word about the antenna and (b) I'm not sure where
Eigler gets his information that the antenna is delicate. Having worked
directly with civilian aircraft weather radar for a long time, I have
absolutely no idea where Eigler is coming from and (c) nobody ever said a
word about packing a maggie directly on top of a delicate part. Separate
boxes come to mind unless you want argument for argument's sake.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Frank Ch. Eigler" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> Judah wrote:
>>
>>>> [...] What some here may not realize is how fragile the radar
>>>> antenna can be. [...] I would not risk plain old packing peanuts
>>>> or bubble wrap, if the box being held sideways or upside down
>>>> causes a load upon these parts.
>>
>>> What happens in turbulence?
>>
>> Clearly, it can handle that, but then it has only a few
>> ounces/decagrams of mass (the fragile mast in the middle) to move
>> along. If one tries to push the ten-pound magnetron/etc. disc through
>> the mast, a hundred times as much force would pass through the part.
>
> So it sounds like mounting the radar to a piece of plywood, or something,
> (like it is mounted on an airplane) and fastening that in a box, then
> surrounding it with peanuts would be the right thing to do, no?
> --
> Jim in NC
>

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"RST Engineering" > writes:

> Actually (a) the OP said he wanted to ship the RT unit and the
> display; never said a frikkin' word about the antenna

It seems your broad experience has excluded radar units like my old
RDR-160 where the RT and antenna are actually nailed together into one
unit.

> and (b) I'm not sure where Eigler gets his information that the
> antenna is delicate. [...]

Jim, I spelled out precisely where I got the information. From
a manufacturer's warning sticker right on the antenna.

- FChE

[Al G[_1_]]

"RST Engineering" > wrote in message
...
> Actually (a) the OP said he wanted to ship the RT unit and the display;
> never said a frikkin' word about the antenna

My apologies, Jim, I thought the existance of the antenna was implied.
This unit consists of two parts, the display in the aircraft, and the unit
under the wing. The base unit that mounts to the pod is fairly rigged, but
the slotted dish doesn't look like it would support much weight. I'm
concerned about the unit getting tipped over, and landing on the antenna in
the box. I'm sure that the base unit can support the antenna, which only
weighs grams, like it does in turbulence, but I'm trying to avoid any
situation where the antenna has to support the base unit that weighs about
15lbs.
I've checked with our King dealer, in Troutdale, and all they will tell
me is that they use a box from Honeywell. I've asked for a contact or part
number or something, but got no reply.
Roseburg isn't a big town, and doesn't have a Kinko's, but I think we
have a package express, or something.

Al G

[Frank Ch. Eigler]

"Al G" > writes:

> > Actually (a) the OP said he wanted to ship the RT unit and the
> > display; never said a frikkin' word about the antenna
>
> My apologies, Jim, I thought the existance of the antenna was implied.

There is no need to apologize. Jim was rude and overconfident of his
mistaken information.

> This unit consists of two parts [...]

Indeed, as a few seconds' googling shows, and there are several other
"two-piece" radar systems.

- FChE

[Darrel Toepfer]

B A R R Y > wrote:
> "RST Engineering" > wrote:

>>Do NOT ship UPS. Those *******s will find a way to screw up the
>>process one way or another, and we ship two to three hundred packages
>>a year.
>
> Good advice for packing. As another data point, our bike shop's
> experience is exactly the opposite for the two shipping companies
> mentioned.

Same here, Fedex today dropped off a package, never rang the bell or
knocked on the door and left without a signature...

And they always do that, even leaving packages outside or in the rain...

UPS on the other hand always wants to tell me hello (and probably to get
something cool to drink)...

[Doug Semler]

"Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
. 18...
>B A R R Y > wrote:
>> "RST Engineering" > wrote:
>
>>>Do NOT ship UPS. Those *******s will find a way to screw up the
>>>process one way or another, and we ship two to three hundred packages
>>>a year.
>>
>> Good advice for packing. As another data point, our bike shop's
>> experience is exactly the opposite for the two shipping companies
>> mentioned.
>
> Same here, Fedex today dropped off a package, never rang the bell or
> knocked on the door and left without a signature...
>
> And they always do that, even leaving packages outside or in the rain...
>
> UPS on the other hand always wants to tell me hello (and probably to get
> something cool to drink)...


An FYI: You can contact FedEx and always require a signature (or hold) on
packages destined for your address. I do that because I have (on a
semi-regular basis) have high-value packages...

--
Doug Semler, MCPD
a.a. #705, BAAWA. EAC Guardian of the Horn of the IPU (pbuhh).
The answer is 42; DNRC o-
Gur Hfrarg unf orpbzr fb shyy bs penc gurfr qnlf, abbar rira
erpbtavmrf fvzcyr guvatf yvxr ebg13 nalzber. Fnq, vfa'g vg?

[Al G[_1_]]

"Doug Semler" > wrote in message
news:SKSdnXUBluUXgkvbnZ2dnUVZ_tOtnZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
> "Darrel Toepfer" > wrote in message
> . 18...
>>B A R R Y > wrote:
>>> "RST Engineering" > wrote:
>>
>>>>Do NOT ship UPS. Those *******s will find a way to screw up the
>>>>process one way or another, and we ship two to three hundred packages
>>>>a year.
>>>
>>> Good advice for packing. As another data point, our bike shop's
>>> experience is exactly the opposite for the two shipping companies
>>> mentioned.
>>
>> Same here, Fedex today dropped off a package, never rang the bell or
>> knocked on the door and left without a signature...
>>
>> And they always do that, even leaving packages outside or in the rain...
>>
>> UPS on the other hand always wants to tell me hello (and probably to get
>> something cool to drink)...
>
>
> An FYI: You can contact FedEx and always require a signature (or hold) on
> packages destined for your address. I do that because I have (on a
> semi-regular basis) have high-value packages...
>
> --
> Doug Semler, MCPD
> a.a. #705, BAAWA. EAC Guardian of the Horn of the IPU (pbuhh).
> The answer is 42; DNRC o-
> Gur Hfrarg unf orpbzr fb shyy bs penc gurfr qnlf, abbar rira
> erpbtavmrf fvzcyr guvatf yvxr ebg13 nalzber. Fnq, vfa'g vg?

I took it to a local Package depot. They were professional, understood
my problem, and quoted me a price of $75 to build a 20" * 20" box, large
enough to hold both parts. The Antenna unit is bolted to the floor, through
bushings, and the entire wooden box is sent inside a cardboard box with a 2"
layer of peanuts. The fellow that is building the box is also an aircraft
owner, and is very meticulous. 2nd day air, and lots of insurance.

Thanks for your help, and if anyone needs to do it again, I know a guy
with a really neat box. :)

Al G

[Darrel Toepfer]

"Doug Semler" > wrote:

> An FYI: You can contact FedEx and always require a signature (or hold)
> on packages destined for your address. I do that because I have (on a
> semi-regular basis) have high-value packages...

I use my shipping dollars to geaux to the vendor that does the best job,
typically UPS or USPS... Doesn't matter the value, they'll have a tough
time not paying on an insured item that doesn't have a signature...

[Judah]

"Al G" > wrote in
:

>
> "RST Engineering" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Actually (a) the OP said he wanted to ship the RT unit and the display;
>> never said a frikkin' word about the antenna
>
> My apologies, Jim, I thought the existance of the antenna was
> implied.
> This unit consists of two parts, the display in the aircraft, and the
> unit under the wing. The base unit that mounts to the pod is fairly
> rigged, but the slotted dish doesn't look like it would support much
> weight. I'm concerned about the unit getting tipped over, and landing on
> the antenna in the box. I'm sure that the base unit can support the
> antenna, which only weighs grams, like it does in turbulence, but I'm
> trying to avoid any situation where the antenna has to support the base
> unit that weighs about 15lbs.
> I've checked with our King dealer, in Troutdale, and all they will
> tell
> me is that they use a box from Honeywell. I've asked for a contact or
> part number or something, but got no reply.
> Roseburg isn't a big town, and doesn't have a Kinko's, but I think
> we
> have a package express, or something.

Perhaps the PC shipping model is appropriate...

Some rigid styrofoam bars (you might even find them at a craft store or the
craft section of a walmart) well taped together into a structure
surrounding the antenna and then taped to the base. If the unit is flipped
over, the structure should serve as a stand to the base so that the antenna
is essentially suspended (but supported, ideally)...

Generally, a picture is worth 1000 words, but hopefully I have enough words
here to draw a bit of a picture... :)