Electrical Relay Help

[Jeff]

I have a 12v DC linear actuator, it just has 2 wires coming from the motor.
If I connect the red wire to the positive terminal of the battery and the
black to the negative, the motor extends. When I reverse the wires the
motor retracts. The motor draws about 5 amps. Pretty straight forward even
for an electrical dummy like me :<)

I have a grip for my control stick that has a 3 position switch to control
this motor. It is an ON-OFF-ON SPST switch that is capable of about 2 amps.
So I went down to Radio Shack and bought a DPDT 12v relay part number
275-218. Here is the Radio Shack web site for this relay:
http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=275-218

I need some help wiring the thing up so I can use my motor. Which wires go
where? Did I get the right kind of relay?

Thanks,
Jeff

[James R. Freeman]

Jeff:
To do it right , I would use 2 of this type of relay unless You are sure
the SPDT switch can handle 5 amps D.C. in the long term. You may contact me
off list for wiring details either wayfor wiring details.

remove the no-spam
Jim
"Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com> wrote in message
...
> I have a 12v DC linear actuator, it just has 2 wires coming from the
motor.
> If I connect the red wire to the positive terminal of the battery and the
> black to the negative, the motor extends. When I reverse the wires the
> motor retracts. The motor draws about 5 amps. Pretty straight forward
even
> for an electrical dummy like me :<)
>
> I have a grip for my control stick that has a 3 position switch to control
> this motor. It is an ON-OFF-ON SPST switch that is capable of about 2
amps.
> So I went down to Radio Shack and bought a DPDT 12v relay part number
> 275-218. Here is the Radio Shack web site for this relay:
> http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=275-218
>
> I need some help wiring the thing up so I can use my motor. Which wires
go
> where? Did I get the right kind of relay?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
>

[Darrel Toepfer]

"Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com> wrote...
> I have a 12v DC linear actuator, it just has 2 wires coming from the
motor.
> If I connect the red wire to the positive terminal of the battery and the
> black to the negative, the motor extends. When I reverse the wires the
> motor retracts. The motor draws about 5 amps. Pretty straight forward
even
> for an electrical dummy like me :<)
>
> I have a grip for my control stick that has a 3 position switch to control
> this motor. It is an ON-OFF-ON SPST switch that is capable of about 2
amps.
> So I went down to Radio Shack and bought a DPDT 12v relay part number
> 275-218. Here is the Radio Shack web site for this relay:
> http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=275-218
>
> I need some help wiring the thing up so I can use my motor. Which wires
go
> where? Did I get the right kind of relay?

You'll need 2 relays, one wired to each side of the ON of the switch... If
you could replace the switch with a DPDT of proper amperage, you could do
without the relays. Routing large enough gauge wire up the control could be
a problem though...

Wiring is pretty straight forward, keep in mind that you need to reverse the
polarity to the motor...

If you were to use a DPDT CENTER OFF switch you'd do it like this:

1I I2
Battery + 3I I4 -
Motor + 5I I6 -

Run a jumper from 1 to 6 and another from 2 to 5. The battery positive runs
to 3 and negative to 4. The actuator moter is hooked to 5 and 6. Reverse the
polarity or switch position as need be to get the actuator movement in the
desired direction...

Using the relay works the same way, you'll be using 2 NORMALLY OPEN
terminals on each relay, run 2 jumpers from the commons to your battery
inputs, run another 2 jumpers from the NO terminals of each relay (use the
ones across from the commons you used) reverse the polarity across the
jumpers on one relay. Strap one side of the coils of each relay to ground.
Take the other side of the coils to each of your control stick switch
points, wire the common of it to the battery positive. Be sure to use proper
gauge wire on the load wiring and its supply, be sure to fuse/breaker the
switch supply as well as the positive supply for the load feed into the
relays, to avoid meltdowns from shorts in motor or wiring...

For the legals, "I cannot be held responsible for the accuracy of the
information supplied above"...

[Jay]

Unless you're in love with relays, you could use a solid state
solution such as an H-Bridge. One thing you're going to want to think
about in your system is when you turn off the juice to that big motor,
it's inductance is going to generate a large voltage spike. So you'll
want some way of absorbing that other than channeling into into your
radio equipment and pitting your relay contacts.

Regards

"James R. Freeman" > wrote in message >...
> Jeff:
> To do it right , I would use 2 of this type of relay unless You are sure
> the SPDT switch can handle 5 amps D.C. in the long term. You may contact me
> off list for wiring details either wayfor wiring details.
>
> remove the no-spam
> Jim
> "Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com> wrote in message
> ...
> > I have a 12v DC linear actuator, it just has 2 wires coming from the
> motor.
> > If I connect the red wire to the positive terminal of the battery and the
> > black to the negative, the motor extends. When I reverse the wires the
> > motor retracts. The motor draws about 5 amps. Pretty straight forward
> even
> > for an electrical dummy like me :<)
> >
> > I have a grip for my control stick that has a 3 position switch to control
> > this motor. It is an ON-OFF-ON SPST switch that is capable of about 2
> amps.
> > So I went down to Radio Shack and bought a DPDT 12v relay part number
> > 275-218. Here is the Radio Shack web site for this relay:
> > http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=275-218
> >
> > I need some help wiring the thing up so I can use my motor. Which wires
> go
> > where? Did I get the right kind of relay?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jeff
> >
> >

[Jeff]

Jay,

I am not totally set on using a relay. As you can tell from my post, I am
not an electrical engineer by any stretch of the imagination. I can wire
things up and am very comfortable with stuff like that, I just need a little
nudge in the right direction. Please tell me more about what an H-Bridge
is.

Thanks!!

Jeff

"Jay" > wrote in message
om...
> Unless you're in love with relays, you could use a solid state
> solution such as an H-Bridge. One thing you're going to want to think
> about in your system is when you turn off the juice to that big motor,
> it's inductance is going to generate a large voltage spike. So you'll
> want some way of absorbing that other than channeling into into your
> radio equipment and pitting your relay contacts.
>
> Regards
>
> "James R. Freeman" > wrote in message
>...
> > Jeff:
> > To do it right , I would use 2 of this type of relay unless You are
sure
> > the SPDT switch can handle 5 amps D.C. in the long term. You may contact
me
> > off list for wiring details either wayfor wiring details.
> >
> > remove the no-spam
> > Jim
> > "Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com> wrote in message
> > ...
> > > I have a 12v DC linear actuator, it just has 2 wires coming from the
> > motor.
> > > If I connect the red wire to the positive terminal of the battery and
the
> > > black to the negative, the motor extends. When I reverse the wires
the
> > > motor retracts. The motor draws about 5 amps. Pretty straight
forward
> > even
> > > for an electrical dummy like me :<)
> > >
> > > I have a grip for my control stick that has a 3 position switch to
control
> > > this motor. It is an ON-OFF-ON SPST switch that is capable of about 2
> > amps.
> > > So I went down to Radio Shack and bought a DPDT 12v relay part number
> > > 275-218. Here is the Radio Shack web site for this relay:
> > > http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=275-218
> > >
> > > I need some help wiring the thing up so I can use my motor. Which
wires
> > go
> > > where? Did I get the right kind of relay?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Jeff
> > >
> > >

[Jeff]

Richard,

The problem is the Ray Allen G207 control stick that I have only has
provisions for a 2 amp SPST switch..

Thanks,
Jeff

"Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
...
>
> A simple 10 amp double pole double throw switch (preferably spring
> loaded to center off position) will do the job nicely for about $10.
>
> The center terminals of the switch (the 2 common pins) will be wired
> to the motor - one from each terminal.
> Those are the only wires to the motor.
> Call this the "output" from the switch.
>
> On the outter terminals of the switch, +12 and ground on one pole and
> ground and +12 on the other. Note that the voltages are reversed.
>
> When the switch is pressed one way the motor gets +/-.
> When the switch is pressed the other way the motor gets -/+.
>
> That will provide basic functionality.
>
> If you want pilot and co-pilot stick inputs and a priority override,
> it will take relays (plural) and a lot more head scratching.
>
> Leo wired up the trim on his Zodiac this week.
> His system has all that and a co-pilot disable, and rate adjustment too.
> He just bought the commercial modules and wired it up per instructions.
>
> Lo and behold, it works as advertised.
>
>
> Best of luck.
>
> Richard
>
> Jeff wrote:
> >
> > Jay,
> >
> > I am not totally set on using a relay. As you can tell from my post, I
am
> > not an electrical engineer by any stretch of the imagination. I can
wire
> > things up and am very comfortable with stuff like that, I just need a
little
> > nudge in the right direction. Please tell me more about what an
H-Bridge
> > is.
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > "Jay" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Unless you're in love with relays, you could use a solid state
> > > solution such as an H-Bridge. One thing you're going to want to think
> > > about in your system is when you turn off the juice to that big motor,
> > > it's inductance is going to generate a large voltage spike. So you'll
> > > want some way of absorbing that other than channeling into into your
> > > radio equipment and pitting your relay contacts.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > "James R. Freeman" > wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > Jeff:
> > > > To do it right , I would use 2 of this type of relay unless You
are
> > sure
> > > > the SPDT switch can handle 5 amps D.C. in the long term. You may
contact
> > me
> > > > off list for wiring details either wayfor wiring details.
> > > >
> > > > remove the no-spam
> > > > Jim
> > > > "Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com> wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I have a 12v DC linear actuator, it just has 2 wires coming from
the
> > > > motor.
> > > > > If I connect the red wire to the positive terminal of the battery
and
> > the
> > > > > black to the negative, the motor extends. When I reverse the
wires
> > the
> > > > > motor retracts. The motor draws about 5 amps. Pretty straight
> > forward
> > > > even
> > > > > for an electrical dummy like me :<)
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a grip for my control stick that has a 3 position switch to
> > control
> > > > > this motor. It is an ON-OFF-ON SPST switch that is capable of
about 2
> > > > amps.
> > > > > So I went down to Radio Shack and bought a DPDT 12v relay part
number
> > > > > 275-218. Here is the Radio Shack web site for this relay:
> > > > > http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=275-218
> > > > >
> > > > > I need some help wiring the thing up so I can use my motor. Which
> > wires
> > > > go
> > > > > where? Did I get the right kind of relay?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Jeff
> > > > >
> > > > >

[Richard Lamb]

Jeff wrote:
>
> Richard,
>
> The problem is the Ray Allen G207 control stick that I have only has
> provisions for a 2 amp SPST switch..
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>

Ok, so how is THAT going to work????

[Jay]

An H bridge is basically performing the same switching function as
your pair of DPDT relays, the difference is the switches are power
transistors instead of electromagnets and springs pulling little
contacts together and apart. It has the advantage of no moving parts
or contact points. They usually offer a speed control and brake as
well. The brake just short accross the motor contacts so that the
motor stops as soon as you release the switch and also so the aero
forces won't be able to spin the motor and move the flight surface.
The friction of the mechanical system might stop this on its own. The
issue for you is going to be to find a nice packaged module with lug
terminals so you can just wire it up and go. Do a search on google
for "H bridge module" or something like that.

National makes a very nice 3amp componant level solution with a 6amp
peak capability http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMD18200.html
This is just the raw componant and is probably too difficult for you
to use directly.

Or you could build your own H bridge from solid state relays like
Sharp's S108T01.

Find out if your EM actuator has a built in snubber circuit or not.
The snubber circuit is what disipates the energy stored in the
magnetic field of your motor windings. You want that energy disipated
in a safe way so it doesn't fry any of your high dollar avionics.

And on the other end of the sophistication spectrum is just using a
momentary contact DPDT on-off-on switch instead of the switch
currently built into your stick grip. Maybe panel mount?



"Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com> wrote in message >...
> Jay,
>
> I am not totally set on using a relay. As you can tell from my post, I am
> not an electrical engineer by any stretch of the imagination. I can wire
> things up and am very comfortable with stuff like that, I just need a little
> nudge in the right direction. Please tell me more about what an H-Bridge
> is.
>
> Thanks!!
>
> Jeff
>
> "Jay" > wrote in message
> om...
> > Unless you're in love with relays, you could use a solid state
> > solution such as an H-Bridge. One thing you're going to want to think
> > about in your system is when you turn off the juice to that big motor,
> > it's inductance is going to generate a large voltage spike. So you'll
> > want some way of absorbing that other than channeling into into your
> > radio equipment and pitting your relay contacts.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > "James R. Freeman" > wrote in message
> >...
> > > Jeff:
> > > To do it right , I would use 2 of this type of relay unless You are
> sure
> > > the SPDT switch can handle 5 amps D.C. in the long term. You may contact
> me
> > > off list for wiring details either wayfor wiring details.
> > >
> > > remove the no-spam
> > > Jim
> > > "Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com> wrote in message
> > > ...
> > > > I have a 12v DC linear actuator, it just has 2 wires coming from the
> motor.
> > > > If I connect the red wire to the positive terminal of the battery and
> the
> > > > black to the negative, the motor extends. When I reverse the wires
> the
> > > > motor retracts. The motor draws about 5 amps. Pretty straight
> forward
> even
> > > > for an electrical dummy like me :<)
> > > >
> > > > I have a grip for my control stick that has a 3 position switch to
> control
> > > > this motor. It is an ON-OFF-ON SPST switch that is capable of about 2
> amps.
> > > > So I went down to Radio Shack and bought a DPDT 12v relay part number
> > > > 275-218. Here is the Radio Shack web site for this relay:
> > > > http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=275-218
> > > >
> > > > I need some help wiring the thing up so I can use my motor. Which
> wires
> go
> > > > where? Did I get the right kind of relay?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Jeff
> > > >
> > > >

[Jeff]

I now have 2 DPDT relays to take care of the job.

Jeff

"Richard Lamb" > wrote in message
...
>
>
> Jeff wrote:
> >
> > Richard,
> >
> > The problem is the Ray Allen G207 control stick that I have only has
> > provisions for a 2 amp SPST switch..
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jeff
> >
>
> Ok, so how is THAT going to work????

[Jeff]

Jay,

Thanks for the information. I now have a pair of DPDT relays that I can use
if all else fails. I will do some research.

Thanks!!

Jeff

"Jay" > wrote in message
om...
> An H bridge is basically performing the same switching function as
> your pair of DPDT relays, the difference is the switches are power
> transistors instead of electromagnets and springs pulling little
> contacts together and apart. It has the advantage of no moving parts
> or contact points. They usually offer a speed control and brake as
> well. The brake just short accross the motor contacts so that the
> motor stops as soon as you release the switch and also so the aero
> forces won't be able to spin the motor and move the flight surface.
> The friction of the mechanical system might stop this on its own. The
> issue for you is going to be to find a nice packaged module with lug
> terminals so you can just wire it up and go. Do a search on google
> for "H bridge module" or something like that.
>
> National makes a very nice 3amp componant level solution with a 6amp
> peak capability http://www.national.com/pf/LM/LMD18200.html
> This is just the raw componant and is probably too difficult for you
> to use directly.
>
> Or you could build your own H bridge from solid state relays like
> Sharp's S108T01.
>
> Find out if your EM actuator has a built in snubber circuit or not.
> The snubber circuit is what disipates the energy stored in the
> magnetic field of your motor windings. You want that energy disipated
> in a safe way so it doesn't fry any of your high dollar avionics.
>
> And on the other end of the sophistication spectrum is just using a
> momentary contact DPDT on-off-on switch instead of the switch
> currently built into your stick grip. Maybe panel mount?
>
>
>
> "Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com> wrote in message
>...
> > Jay,
> >
> > I am not totally set on using a relay. As you can tell from my post, I
am
> > not an electrical engineer by any stretch of the imagination. I can
wire
> > things up and am very comfortable with stuff like that, I just need a
little
> > nudge in the right direction. Please tell me more about what an
H-Bridge
> > is.
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > "Jay" > wrote in message
> > om...
> > > Unless you're in love with relays, you could use a solid state
> > > solution such as an H-Bridge. One thing you're going to want to think
> > > about in your system is when you turn off the juice to that big motor,
> > > it's inductance is going to generate a large voltage spike. So you'll
> > > want some way of absorbing that other than channeling into into your
> > > radio equipment and pitting your relay contacts.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > "James R. Freeman" > wrote in message
> > >...
> > > > Jeff:
> > > > To do it right , I would use 2 of this type of relay unless You
are
> > sure
> > > > the SPDT switch can handle 5 amps D.C. in the long term. You may
contact
> > me
> > > > off list for wiring details either wayfor wiring details.
> > > >
> > > > remove the no-spam
> > > > Jim
> > > > "Jeff" <my last name @fidnet.com> wrote in message
> > > > ...
> > > > > I have a 12v DC linear actuator, it just has 2 wires coming from
the
> > motor.
> > > > > If I connect the red wire to the positive terminal of the battery
and
> > the
> > > > > black to the negative, the motor extends. When I reverse the
wires
> > the
> > > > > motor retracts. The motor draws about 5 amps. Pretty straight
> > forward
> > even
> > > > > for an electrical dummy like me :<)
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a grip for my control stick that has a 3 position switch to
> > control
> > > > > this motor. It is an ON-OFF-ON SPST switch that is capable of
about 2
> > amps.
> > > > > So I went down to Radio Shack and bought a DPDT 12v relay part
number
> > > > > 275-218. Here is the Radio Shack web site for this relay:
> > > > > http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=275-218
> > > > >
> > > > > I need some help wiring the thing up so I can use my motor. Which
> > wires
> > go
> > > > > where? Did I get the right kind of relay?
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks,
> > > > > Jeff
> > > > >
> > > > >

[Jeff]

I was looking at those S704-1 relays the other day. I have Bob's book and
he is coming to our tandem wing fly-in again this year to conduct a forum.

Thanks,
Jeff

"Bryan Martin" > wrote in message
...
> in article , Jeff at my last name
> @fidnet.com wrote on 8/28/03 8:06 PM:
>
> > Jay,
> >
> > Thanks for the information. I now have a pair of DPDT relays that I can
use
> > if all else fails. I will do some research.
> >
> > Thanks!!
> >
> > Jeff
> >
>
>
> Take a look at this: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/flaps.pdf
>
>
> --
> Bryan Martin
>