Saw President Bush's plane (response to "Saw J.T.'s Plane")

[Ricky]

The "Saw John Trovolta's Plane" thread got me thinking about
inaccessibility of celebs but nothing compares to the way Bush is
protected from us normal folk!

I'm an A&P student here at Texas State Technical College and our
campus is the old James Connally Air Force Base (Waco, TX.). When Bush
goes to & from Crawford, Air Force One lands & parks here as Waco
Regional's runways are too short for a 747. He then takes Air Force 2
(big helicopter) out to or from his ranch, flanked by several other
mean looking choppers as well as identical decoys, I assume.

Within several hours of Bush's arrival or departure this college
begins to metamorphasize into a place of high tension. There's a
bright orange, fast helicopter that flies a long grid pattern over &
around the campus and this part of Waco. I assume it has much high-
tech gadgetry which can detect anything or anyone potentially
threatening to Bush's safety.

Nobody (not even ATC) knows exactly when AFO is supposed to arrive or
depart but you know it's soon when the area 1/4 to 1/2 mile
surrounding the TSTC control tower building is ridden of all humanity
except lots of dark-windowed cars & SUVs & dark-suited, tense people
with dark glasses. Oh, yeah, and there's lots of german shepherds,
too. If you happen to have class or lab within the sterile zone you
are out of luck for the next hour or two. I have personally missed
several labs & classes because the A&P hangar is well within the
sterile zone (as is pilot training, dental assistant tech. and sub-sea
robotics).

Immediately after 9/11 the entire campus shut down for Bush's arrivals
& departures. You could not go out of or into any building, you were
literally stuck. Before 9/11 one could stand out on the tarmac and
watch AFO taxi up while Bush deplaned or boarded.

Recently I was driving home for lunch and noticed AFO entering the
pattern at TSTC. I reversed my direction and sped through the edge of
the campus to get right under the 747 during it's final. It was quite
a thrill to be directly underneath this rather beautiful jet. I have
heard of dark-suited men in dark SUVs ordering people to put their
cameras away at the arrival or departure ends of Rwy 17 or 35. I guess
one could hide a rocket launcher in your digital if you knew how.

If Bush is not on the plane one can hang out at the tower building on
the tarmac while AFO taxis up directly in front, which is where Bush
boards and deplanes. It then parks across the airport at L3
Communications while Bush enjoys his Western White House.
It is also fortunate that the general public can walk up to AFO while
it's parked at the tower and get just about right under the wingtip,
outside of the rope which surrounds it. This truly is one beauty of a
747. Photos are welcomed as well during this time.

I have heard stories of student pilots trapped out in the TSTC
practice areas in the 95-100 degree Tx. sun in their 152s or Katanas
while Bush comes & goes, even having to divert to Hillsboro or Mexia
due to fuel concerns.
I earned my Commercial/Instrument here but do not currently fly in
Waco so I can't comment on the frustrations generated by the TFR. I
think pilots around here have learned to live with it for the most
part. A few times a year the Waco paper will be headlined with the
hapless pilot who strayed into the TFR only to be quickly escorted to
McGregor by a pair of F-16s or F-18s.

I do count myself fortunate to experience the comings & goings of AFO
and the C-5 which arrives a day or so prior to Bush, these are amazing
aircraft for neophyte mechanic and pilot students to watch land, take
off & taxi. Our classes usually are interuptted by the C-5's arrival.
It's just too cool to watch this huge aircraft land, taxi up just
outside our hangar, raise it's entire nose section and unload the
multitude of vehicles and "stuff" that heralds Bush's arrival.

Handshakes & autographs? Out of the question. All human beings are
ordered away. The consequnce will not be an FBO denied business,
however, it will likely be a high-powered rifle bullet to the head!

Ricky

[john]

Ricky wrote:
> The "Saw John Trovolta's Plane" thread got me thinking about
> inaccessibility of celebs but nothing compares to the way Bush is
> protected from us normal folk!
>
> I'm an A&P student here at Texas State Technical College and our
> campus is the old James Connally Air Force Base (Waco, TX.). When Bush
> goes to & from Crawford, Air Force One lands & parks here as Waco
> Regional's runways are too short for a 747. He then takes Air Force 2
> (big helicopter) out to or from his ranch, flanked by several other
> mean looking choppers as well as identical decoys, I assume.
>
> Within several hours of Bush's arrival or departure this college
> begins to metamorphasize into a place of high tension. There's a
> bright orange, fast helicopter that flies a long grid pattern over &
> around the campus and this part of Waco. I assume it has much high-
> tech gadgetry which can detect anything or anyone potentially
> threatening to Bush's safety.
>
> Nobody (not even ATC) knows exactly when AFO is supposed to arrive or
> depart but you know it's soon when the area 1/4 to 1/2 mile
> surrounding the TSTC control tower building is ridden of all humanity
> except lots of dark-windowed cars & SUVs & dark-suited, tense people
> with dark glasses. Oh, yeah, and there's lots of german shepherds,
> too. If you happen to have class or lab within the sterile zone you
> are out of luck for the next hour or two. I have personally missed
> several labs & classes because the A&P hangar is well within the
> sterile zone (as is pilot training, dental assistant tech. and sub-sea
> robotics).
>
> Immediately after 9/11 the entire campus shut down for Bush's arrivals
> & departures. You could not go out of or into any building, you were
> literally stuck. Before 9/11 one could stand out on the tarmac and
> watch AFO taxi up while Bush deplaned or boarded.
>
> Recently I was driving home for lunch and noticed AFO entering the
> pattern at TSTC. I reversed my direction and sped through the edge of
> the campus to get right under the 747 during it's final. It was quite
> a thrill to be directly underneath this rather beautiful jet. I have
> heard of dark-suited men in dark SUVs ordering people to put their
> cameras away at the arrival or departure ends of Rwy 17 or 35. I guess
> one could hide a rocket launcher in your digital if you knew how.
>
> If Bush is not on the plane one can hang out at the tower building on
> the tarmac while AFO taxis up directly in front, which is where Bush
> boards and deplanes. It then parks across the airport at L3
> Communications while Bush enjoys his Western White House.
> It is also fortunate that the general public can walk up to AFO while
> it's parked at the tower and get just about right under the wingtip,
> outside of the rope which surrounds it. This truly is one beauty of a
> 747. Photos are welcomed as well during this time.
>
> I have heard stories of student pilots trapped out in the TSTC
> practice areas in the 95-100 degree Tx. sun in their 152s or Katanas
> while Bush comes & goes, even having to divert to Hillsboro or Mexia
> due to fuel concerns.
> I earned my Commercial/Instrument here but do not currently fly in
> Waco so I can't comment on the frustrations generated by the TFR. I
> think pilots around here have learned to live with it for the most
> part. A few times a year the Waco paper will be headlined with the
> hapless pilot who strayed into the TFR only to be quickly escorted to
> McGregor by a pair of F-16s or F-18s.
>
> I do count myself fortunate to experience the comings & goings of AFO
> and the C-5 which arrives a day or so prior to Bush, these are amazing
> aircraft for neophyte mechanic and pilot students to watch land, take
> off & taxi. Our classes usually are interuptted by the C-5's arrival.
> It's just too cool to watch this huge aircraft land, taxi up just
> outside our hangar, raise it's entire nose section and unload the
> multitude of vehicles and "stuff" that heralds Bush's arrival.
>
> Handshakes & autographs? Out of the question. All human beings are
> ordered away. The consequnce will not be an FBO denied business,
> however, it will likely be a high-powered rifle bullet to the head!
>
> Ricky
>
Give me a break. Has anyone been shot attempting to greet the
president? The answer is no, you might get arrested but your not going
to get shot for trying to get close to him. Presidents are at more risk
of getting shot then people approaching him. You most certainly will get
a gun pointed at you but it won't be fired.

[Denny]

The other issue is the presidents movements usurping public spaces and
disrupting commerce and blocking the public's constitutionally
protected freedom of movement (and the VP, and the Speaker, ad
nauseum)...
The day will come when someone will lose a contract, or some such
event, because the unannounced movements of the president and men in
dark suits blocking off public spaces. A lawsuit will result and the
government will lose - as it is a clear issue that no one has the
constitutional right to interrupt the citizenry's access to public
spaces, roads, parks, the airspace, etc... We already tossed one King
off the continent over these types of issues...

I have no desire to see the president injured, or even threatened, but
when it comes to violating my rights versus his 'possible' injury
because he has chosen to go out in public, he will have to take his
chances just like I do when I step off my porch every morning...

denny

[Allen[_1_]]

The fighter jets were kept busy last weekend when President Bush was at his
ranch here in Texas. It seemed once every hour you would hear them come
screaming in on afterburner to herd someone away or force them to land.
There were so many incursions that the normal 10 mile no fly zone around
TSTC airport during the President's departure was expanded to 30 miles.
Even after he left for at least another hour the police were blocking
taxiways here at KACT (Waco Regional), not letting anybody taxi in or out.
Finally a GV taxied out and left (First Lady going back to D.C.?) and we
were all turned loose to go about our business.

--
*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

"Ricky" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> The "Saw John Trovolta's Plane" thread got me thinking about
> inaccessibility of celebs but nothing compares to the way Bush is
> protected from us normal folk!
>
> I'm an A&P student here at Texas State Technical College and our
> campus is the old James Connally Air Force Base (Waco, TX.). When Bush
> goes to & from Crawford, Air Force One lands & parks here as Waco
> Regional's runways are too short for a 747. He then takes Air Force 2
> (big helicopter) out to or from his ranch, flanked by several other
> mean looking choppers as well as identical decoys, I assume.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Denny wrote:
> The other issue is the presidents movements usurping public spaces and
> disrupting commerce and blocking the public's constitutionally
> protected freedom of movement (and the VP, and the Speaker, ad
> nauseum)...
> The day will come when someone will lose a contract, or some such
> event, because the unannounced movements of the president and men in
> dark suits blocking off public spaces. A lawsuit will result and the
> government will lose - as it is a clear issue that no one has the
> constitutional right to interrupt the citizenry's access to public
> spaces, roads, parks, the airspace, etc... We already tossed one King
> off the continent over these types of issues...
>
> I have no desire to see the president injured, or even threatened, but
> when it comes to violating my rights versus his 'possible' injury
> because he has chosen to go out in public, he will have to take his
> chances just like I do when I step off my porch every morning...
>
> denny

Security around the President is hardly a new thing.

But while sovereign immunity has been reduced much over the years national
security issues is one place where it still carries some weight and I see no
court deciding that protection of the President should be secondary to some
commercial loss.

[cjcampbell]

On Aug 30, 5:30 am, Denny > wrote:
> The other issue is the presidents movements usurping public spaces and
> disrupting commerce and blocking the public's constitutionally
> protected freedom of movement (and the VP, and the Speaker, ad
> nauseum)...
> The day will come when someone will lose a contract, or some such
> event, because the unannounced movements of the president and men in
> dark suits blocking off public spaces. A lawsuit will result and the
> government will lose - as it is a clear issue that no one has the
> constitutional right to interrupt the citizenry's access to public
> spaces, roads, parks, the airspace, etc... We already tossed one King
> off the continent over these types of issues...
>
> I have no desire to see the president injured, or even threatened, but
> when it comes to violating my rights versus his 'possible' injury
> because he has chosen to go out in public, he will have to take his
> chances just like I do when I step off my porch every morning...
>
> denny

Funny you should mention that. President Bush's recent visit to
Seattle delayed me over an hour while I was on my way to the
pharmacist. What if it had been an emergency and I had died? There
were no alternative routes due to the constrictions of lots of water
and narrow bits of land in the Seattle area.

The Southcenter Mall was virtually shut down for hours. The entire
mall! Because the police had blocked off *every* road that led to it.
You probably could have fired a cannon through there and not hit
anyone. Bush was not anywhere near the mall except for two periods of
less than five minutes as he traveled the freeway nearby.

In fact, people have been killed by Presidential motorcades, some
recently. These things are dangerous. The Secret Service really needs
to work on the disruption and hazards to safety caused by their
security. Just because the SS guys are willing to take a bullet for
the President does not meant that everyone else in the country feels
the same way.

[Mxsmanic]

Ricky writes:

> It is also fortunate that the general public can walk up to AFO while
> it's parked at the tower and get just about right under the wingtip,
> outside of the rope which surrounds it. This truly is one beauty of a
> 747. Photos are welcomed as well during this time.

Why is this fortunate? Isn't the USA still a democracy? Is there some reason
why you _shouldn't_ be able to do these things? Is the President a civil
servant or a deity?

> I have heard stories of student pilots trapped out in the TSTC
> practice areas in the 95-100 degree Tx. sun in their 152s or Katanas
> while Bush comes & goes, even having to divert to Hillsboro or Mexia
> due to fuel concerns.

They can declare an emergency if necessary, which takes precedence even over
the President.

> Handshakes & autographs? Out of the question. All human beings are
> ordered away. The consequnce will not be an FBO denied business,
> however, it will likely be a high-powered rifle bullet to the head!

If you are commanded to genuflect or salivate, do you do that, too?

[Mxsmanic]

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

> But while sovereign immunity has been reduced much over the years national
> security issues is one place where it still carries some weight and I see no
> court deciding that protection of the President should be secondary to some
> commercial loss.

Why not? The USA is a democracy, and the President is only one part of a
government that employs a balance of powers. This being so, there's a limit
to the President's importance to the nation, and therefore a limit to the
measures that can reasonably be justified to protect him. The constant
inflationary spiral of these measures has to stop somewhere. Bringing a city
to a halt is not really justified, not even for the President.

[AustinMN]

On Aug 30, 12:26 am, Ricky > wrote:
> I'm an A&P student here at Texas State Technical College and our
> campus is the old James Connally Air Force Base (Waco, TX.). When Bush
> goes to & from Crawford, Air Force One lands & parks here as Waco
> Regional's runways are too short for a 747. He then takes Air Force 2
> (big helicopter) out to or from his ranch, flanked by several other
> mean looking choppers as well as identical decoys, I assume.

First, if it has the president, it becomes Air Force One, whether it's
a fixed wing, rotorcraft, blimp, or balloon...unless it's under the
Marines, in which case it's Marine One, or the Navy, making it Navy
One, etc.

Air Force Two would be the VP's aircraft.

Austin

[Gattman[_2_]]

"Denny" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> The other issue is the presidents movements usurping public spaces and
> disrupting commerce and blocking the public's constitutionally
> protected freedom of movement (and the VP, and the Speaker, ad
> nauseum)...

It doesn't matter WHICH president it is. They always seem to come through
Portland at rush hour, and the secret service doesn't want to publish the
route so pretty much everything is jammed.

Way to get my support: Make the entire city sit in traffic because you
couldn't come in at midnight when the commuter freeways were wide open.

-c

[Gattman[_2_]]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
...

> Security around the President is hardly a new thing.

It's weird, though. When Bush comes to town his appearance location is
secret, private or surrounded by cyclone fences.

My ex-girlfriend got to shake Clinton's hand in the Portland State
University park blocks. (That was before the Lewinski thing.) Security
everywhere, but he could still get out there and meet the general public.
Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change hasn't exactly gone over
well here.

-c

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Mxsmanic wrote:
> Gig 601XL Builder writes:
>
>> But while sovereign immunity has been reduced much over the years
>> national security issues is one place where it still carries some
>> weight and I see no court deciding that protection of the President
>> should be secondary to some commercial loss.
>
> Why not? The USA is a democracy, and the President is only one part
> of a government that employs a balance of powers. This being so,
> there's a limit to the President's importance to the nation, and
> therefore a limit to the measures that can reasonably be justified to
> protect him. The constant inflationary spiral of these measures has
> to stop somewhere. Bringing a city to a halt is not really
> justified, not even for the President.



First off no, the USA isn't and never was. It is a representative republic.
The President and Vice President are the only two representatives who are
elected by the entire electorate. That does give them a certain higher
standing than the other members of our government.

But that aside the majority of the citizens of the US feel that the POTUS is
of significant enough importance to allow those who are charged with his
well being a certain latitude in his protection. While a individual or even
many individulas might have in the past or in the future suffer some
financial loss due to the steps required to protect the POTUS it pales in
comparison to the loss that would be suffered by many, many people should he
be killed, especially should that attack be part of a larger attack on our
country. The loss may well be caused by purely emotional reactions but that
doesn't make the loss any less.

Bringing a city to a halt is, to say the least, a little overstated. Bush
was here in little old El Dorado Arkansas (pop. ~20k) before the last
election. The town didn't come to a halt. A matter of fact if you weren't in
a 4 block radius of where he was speaking you wouldn't have known he was in
town. As a matter of fact I went to the airport where AF1 was sitting
(though it wasn't the 747 it was a 757)and was allowed inside the fence and
allowed to go to my hanger. There was a police officer there who asked why I
was there. When I pointed to the airplane tires in the back of my truck and
to my hanger he said, "Have a nice day and please leave via this exit." This
was mainly because AF1 was parked 50 yards from the other exit and I would
have had to drive past it.

As far as the limit to the POTUS's importance to the US, yes there is a
limit as there is a limit to what can be done to protect him. But, at least
at this point the general public doesn't think that limit has been exceeded.

Keep in mind that even though you are making great headway in the
competition there are still a lot more people that would want to do harm to
the POTUS than there are that want to do so to the average citizen.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Gattman wrote:
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
> ...
>
>> Security around the President is hardly a new thing.
>
> It's weird, though. When Bush comes to town his appearance location
> is secret, private or surrounded by cyclone fences.
>
> My ex-girlfriend got to shake Clinton's hand in the Portland State
> University park blocks. (That was before the Lewinski thing.) Security
> everywhere, but he could still get out there and meet the
> general public. Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change
> hasn't exactly gone over well here.
>
> -c

I know several people that got to shake Bush's hand when he was here before
the last election. As a matter of fact his motorcade came within a block of
my house well within shooting distance and though I was at work when he
actually drove by there was no visible security on the route 30 minutes
before.

I think the level of security changes with possible threats. Obviously his
security felt safer when he was in South Arkansas.

[Ricky]

On Aug 30, 6:17 am, john > wrote:

> Give me a break. Has anyone been shot attempting to greet the
> president? The answer is no, you might get arrested but your not going
> to get shot for trying to get close to him. Presidents are at more risk
> of getting shot then people approaching him. You most certainly will get
> a gun pointed at you but it won't be fired

The leadership here at TSTC has been briefed long ago to warn students
about crossing boundaries such as dark-suited personel, closed gates
that are normally opened, etc. with the possibility that lethal force
could absolutely be used if necessary.
Now, that's what I heard. Things one hears at a college campus about
matters like this are not to always be trusted, but it sounds
reasonable to me.
A few semesters ago some A&P students hopped the normally-open gate
going to the hangar during a Bush arrival or departure, worried about
missing lab. They were very quickly apprehended and detained,
questioned for many hours and ultimately put on a terrorist watch
list.

Ricky

[Ricky]

On Aug 30, 10:09 am, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Ricky writes:
> > It is also fortunate that the general public can walk up to AFO while
> > it's parked at the tower and get just about right under the wingtip,
> > outside of the rope which surrounds it. This truly is one beauty of a
> > 747. Photos are welcomed as well during this time.
>
> Why is this fortunate?

Well, most folks around here appreciate the opportunity to walk right
up to AFO, see the pretty plane, take pictures etc...as did I.

>Isn't the USA still a democracy? Is there some reason
> why you _shouldn't_ be able to do these things? Is the President a civil
> servant or a deity?

Sure, but he's also well protected since 9-11 especially.

> > I have heard stories of student pilots trapped out in the TSTC
> > practice areas in the 95-100 degree Tx. sun in their 152s or Katanas
> > while Bush comes & goes, even having to divert to Hillsboro or Mexia
> > due to fuel concerns.
>
> They can declare an emergency if necessary, which takes precedence even over
> the President.

I don't know. The Air Force does not operate under FAA rules, do they?
Especially during presidential arrivals/departures.
I have the feeling that even an emergency would be told to go
somewhere else OR the fighters would see to it that the emergency was
taken care of without getting near Bush.

> > Handshakes & autographs? Out of the question. All human beings are
> > ordered away. The consequnce will not be an FBO denied business,
> > however, it will likely be a high-powered rifle bullet to the head!
>
> If you are commanded to genuflect or salivate, do you do that, too?

Whatever.

Ricky

[Ricky]

On Aug 30, 11:04 am, AustinMN > wrote:
> On Aug 30, 12:26 am, Ricky > wrote:
>
> > I'm an A&P student here at Texas State Technical College and our
> > campus is the old James Connally Air Force Base (Waco, TX.). When Bush
> > goes to & from Crawford, Air Force One lands & parks here as Waco
> > Regional's runways are too short for a 747. He then takes Air Force 2
> > (big helicopter) out to or from his ranch, flanked by several other
> > mean looking choppers as well as identical decoys, I assume.
>
> First, if it has the president, it becomes Air Force One, whether it's
> a fixed wing, rotorcraft, blimp, or balloon...unless it's under the
> Marines, in which case it's Marine One, or the Navy, making it Navy
> One, etc.
>
> Air Force Two would be the VP's aircraft.
>
> Austin

Oh, thanks for the correction. Yo ulearn something new every day
(sometimes).

Ricky

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
...
>
>
> First off no, the USA isn't and never was. It is a representative
> republic. The President and Vice President are the only two
> representatives who are elected by the entire electorate. That does give
> them a certain higher standing than the other members of our government.
Since you're picking nits, I'll join in:

First, they are elected by the Electoral College, and second, they are
executives, not representatives. Only our representatives are elected by
direct vote, and even senators were originally elected by state
representative.

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
...
> I know several people that got to shake Bush's hand when he was here
> before the last election. As a matter of fact his motorcade came within a
> block of my house well within shooting distance and though I was at work
> when he actually drove by there was no visible security on the route 30
> minutes before.
>
> I think the level of security changes with possible threats. Obviously his
> security felt safer when he was in South Arkansas.

Did they have this particular black SUV there? http://navlog.org/q_car.wmv.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Matt Barrow wrote:
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
> ...
>> I know several people that got to shake Bush's hand when he was here
>> before the last election. As a matter of fact his motorcade came
>> within a block of my house well within shooting distance and though
>> I was at work when he actually drove by there was no visible
>> security on the route 30 minutes before.
>>
>> I think the level of security changes with possible threats.
>> Obviously his security felt safer when he was in South Arkansas.
>
> Did they have this particular black SUV there?
> http://navlog.org/q_car.wmv.

There were several Black SUVs in attendance

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Matt Barrow wrote:
> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
> ...
>>
>>
>> First off no, the USA isn't and never was. It is a representative
>> republic. The President and Vice President are the only two
>> representatives who are elected by the entire electorate. That does
>> give them a certain higher standing than the other members of our
>> government.
> Since you're picking nits, I'll join in:
>
> First, they are elected by the Electoral College, and second, they are
> executives, not representatives. Only our representatives are elected
> by direct vote, and even senators were originally elected by state
> representative.

Let me rephrase. PRES & VPRES are the only folks whose names are on
everyone's ballot.

And originally the VP was whoever came in second for President. Of all the
constitution that had to be the silliest idea in it.

[Jay Beckman[_2_]]

On Aug 30, 7:00 am, cjcampbell >
wrote:

<SNIP>

> In fact, people have been killed by Presidential motorcades, some
> recently. These things are dangerous. The Secret Service really needs
> to work on the disruption and hazards to safety caused by their
> security. Just because the SS guys are willing to take a bullet for
> the President does not meant that everyone else in the country feels
> the same way.- Hide quoted text -
>

There have been fatal accidents involving police officers who were
part of the escort but I've not ever heard of cilvilians dying due to
actions related to POTUS escorts.

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
...
> Matt Barrow wrote:
>> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
>> ...
>>> I know several people that got to shake Bush's hand when he was here
>>> before the last election. As a matter of fact his motorcade came
>>> within a block of my house well within shooting distance and though
>>> I was at work when he actually drove by there was no visible
>>> security on the route 30 minutes before.
>>>
>>> I think the level of security changes with possible threats.
>>> Obviously his security felt safer when he was in South Arkansas.
>>
>> Did they have this particular black SUV there?
>> http://navlog.org/q_car.wmv.
>
> There were several Black SUVs in attendance
Could you tell if one was the Q-Car?

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
...
> Matt Barrow wrote:
>> "Gig 601XL Builder" <wrDOTgiaconaATsuddenlink.net> wrote in message
>> ...
>>>
>>>
>>> First off no, the USA isn't and never was. It is a representative
>>> republic. The President and Vice President are the only two
>>> representatives who are elected by the entire electorate. That does
>>> give them a certain higher standing than the other members of our
>>> government.
>> Since you're picking nits, I'll join in:
>>
>> First, they are elected by the Electoral College, and second, they are
>> executives, not representatives. Only our representatives are elected
>> by direct vote, and even senators were originally elected by state
>> representative.
>
> Let me rephrase. PRES & VPRES are the only folks whose names are on
> everyone's ballot.
>
> And originally the VP was whoever came in second for President. Of all the
> constitution that had to be the silliest idea in it.
Almost as silly as some of the tortured interpretations of it.

[cjcampbell]

On Aug 30, 2:04 pm, Jay Beckman > wrote:
> On Aug 30, 7:00 am, cjcampbell >
> wrote:
>
> <SNIP>
>
> > In fact, people have been killed by Presidential motorcades, some
> > recently. These things are dangerous. The Secret Service really needs
> > to work on the disruption and hazards to safety caused by their
> > security. Just because the SS guys are willing to take a bullet for
> > the President does not meant that everyone else in the country feels
> > the same way.- Hide quoted text -
>
> There have been fatal accidents involving police officers who were
> part of the escort but I've not ever heard of cilvilians dying due to
> actions related to POTUS escorts.

Ah, well, if they were only police officers then it doesn't matter? Of
course, given some of the other postings here, one might expect
someone from Chandler to have that attitude. :-)

[Mxsmanic]

Gig 601XL Builder writes:

> But that aside the majority of the citizens of the US feel that the POTUS is
> of significant enough importance to allow those who are charged with his
> well being a certain latitude in his protection.

How do you know? None of the current procedures in effect was ever voted on
by the majority of citizens of the US; it's all Executive Orders and the like.
Some of the laws related to this look wildly unconstitutional.

> While a individual or even
> many individulas might have in the past or in the future suffer some
> financial loss due to the steps required to protect the POTUS it pales in
> comparison to the loss that would be suffered by many, many people should he
> be killed, especially should that attack be part of a larger attack on our
> country. The loss may well be caused by purely emotional reactions but that
> doesn't make the loss any less.

A number of presidents have been killed in office and the country has not
disintegrated into chaos.

> Bringing a city to a halt is, to say the least, a little overstated.

I wish it were.

> As far as the limit to the POTUS's importance to the US, yes there is a
> limit as there is a limit to what can be done to protect him. But, at least
> at this point the general public doesn't think that limit has been exceeded.

The general public has never been consulted on the question.

[Mxsmanic]

Gattman writes:

> Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change hasn't exactly gone over
> well here.

The U.S. is not at war.

The current President seems to be much more fearful than most of his
predecessors.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Gig 601XL Builder !" wrote
>
> But that aside the majority of the citizens of the US feel that the POTUS
> is
> of significant enough importance to allow those who are charged with his
> well being a certain latitude in his protection. While a individual or
> even
> many individulas might have in the past or in the future suffer some
> financial loss due to the steps required to protect the POTUS it pales in
> comparison to the loss that would be suffered by many, many people should
> he
> be killed, especially should that attack be part of a larger attack on our
> country. The loss may!well be caused by purely emotional reactions but
> that
> doesn't make the loss any less.
>
> Bringing a city to a halt is, to say the least, a little overstated. Bush
> was here in little old El Dorado Arkansas (pop. ~20k) before the last
> election. The town didn't come to a halt. A matter of fact if you weren't
> in
> a 4 block radius of where he was speaking you wouldn't have known he was
> in
> town. As a matter of fact I went to the airport where AF1 was sitting
> (though it wasn't the 747 it was a 757)and was allowed inside the fence
> and
> allowed to go to my hanger. There was a police officer there who asked why
> I
> was there. When I pointed to the airplane tires in the back of my truck
> and
> to my hanger he said, "Have a nice day and please leave via this exit."
> This
> was mainly because AF1 was parked 50 yards from the other exit and I would
> have had to drive past it.
>
> As far as the limit to the POTUS's importance to the US, yes there is a
> limit as there is a limit to what can be done to protect him. But, at
> least
> at this point the general public doesn't think that limit has been
> exceeded.

Well said, Gig. It is always good to hear a voice of calm analysis, as all
around are freaking out.

They remind me of all of the conspiracy theorists, in a way. Something like
all the POTUS is trying to do is ruin their (and as many other's) day. So
sorry; life is not fair, but I believe as you do, that a dead president at
the hands of an assassin would not be a "good thing" for the country.
--
Jim in NC

[Mxsmanic]

Ricky writes:

> The leadership here at TSTC has been briefed long ago to warn students
> about crossing boundaries such as dark-suited personel, closed gates
> that are normally opened, etc. with the possibility that lethal force
> could absolutely be used if necessary.

But deadly force has never been used, has it?

Typically walking through a gate (even a locked gate) or walking past someone
in a dark suit is not a justification for the use of deadly force.

> A few semesters ago some A&P students hopped the normally-open gate
> going to the hangar during a Bush arrival or departure, worried about
> missing lab. They were very quickly apprehended and detained,
> questioned for many hours and ultimately put on a terrorist watch
> list.

What were their names, and on what date did this occur?

[Mxsmanic]

Ricky writes:

> Well, most folks around here appreciate the opportunity to walk right
> up to AFO, see the pretty plane, take pictures etc...as did I.

Because your deity was gracious enough to permit it?

> Sure, but he's also well protected since 9-11 especially.

He's paranoid, and apparently it's contagious.

> I don't know. The Air Force does not operate under FAA rules, do they?

Emergencies always take precedence over everything.

> I have the feeling that even an emergency would be told to go
> somewhere else OR the fighters would see to it that the emergency was
> taken care of without getting near Bush.

You must watch a lot of movies. Can you imagine the headlines? ...

FAMILY OF FOUR KILLED BY BUSH SECURITY AFTER DECLARING EMERGENCY IN PRIVATE
PLANE

Yes, that would go over _real_ well.

> Whatever.

Is that how you defend your freedoms? By dismissing any discussion of them
that becomes complex? Don't be surprised if you wake up one day and they are
gone.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Ricky" < wrote

> A few semesters ago some A&P students hopped the normally-open gate
> going to the hangar during a Bush arrival or departure, worried about
> missing lab. They were very quickly apprehended and detained,
> questioned for many hours and ultimately put on a terrorist watch
> list.

Ahhh, once again, proving that in our youth, (and in the youth of today) we
do not always stop to consider the implications of our activities.

Still, that is a pretty good hit for them to take, but not completely (or
even a little bit) surprising.

I was in a concert band where the vice president (at the time) was giving a
commencement address. We had to open our instrument cases, and have our
instruments (mine was a trombone) and cases thoroughly inspected before we
entered the stadium. They did just that. Quite thoroughly.

We were also told (ahead of time) to make no jokes with the secret service;
that they had no sense of humor.

They were absolutely right about that, also.
--
Jim in NC

[Gattman[_2_]]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...

> They remind me of all of the conspiracy theorists, in a way. Something
> like all the POTUS is trying to do is ruin their (and as many other's)
> day. So sorry; life is not fair, but I believe as you do, that a dead
> president at the hands of an assassin would not be a "good thing" for the
> country.

The problem is when one POTUS comes to town and shakes everybody's hand, and
the next one comes to town in secret or locks himself away from the public
so that only $X-contributors can see him. It gives the perception that one
is either wildly unpopular or a coward.

Mainly, my criticism is when they arrive DURING rush hour, and it's not just
Bush. Al Gore has done the same thing on at least two difference occasions
since he left the VP office. I don't see how he rates.

(When Bob Dole came to town several years ago he saw the Evergreen B-17
parked near the hangar and made security and staff stop what they were doing
so he could go tour the airplane and talk to the volunteers. Now there's a
good man!)

-c

[Really-Old-Fart]

In rec.aviation.piloting, on Thu 30 Aug 2007 04:49:48p, Mxsmanic
> wrote:

> A number of presidents have been killed in office and the country has
> not disintegrated into chaos.

One could even argue that with some of them, they country was better off
afterwards.

[Really-Old-Fart]

In rec.aviation.piloting, on Thu 30 Aug 2007 04:51:26p, "Morgans"
> wrote:

> They remind me of all of the conspiracy theorists, in a way.
> Something like all the POTUS is trying to do is ruin their (and as
> many other's) day. So sorry; life is not fair, but I believe as you
> do, that a dead president at the hands of an assassin would not be a
> "good thing" for the country.

Kind of depends upon who the dead president is and who the replacement
might be. Unfortunately, unless the assassin manages to take out the VP
also, you just get a continuation of the previous president's political
party's policies. If by some perversion of fate, Hillary does somehow
manage to get elected, I have to say that I would definitely celebrate her
being assasinated -- especially if Bill managed to be taken out with her.
Well, at least until whichever bozo takes her place takes office.

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"cjcampbell" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Aug 30, 2:04 pm, Jay Beckman > wrote:
>> On Aug 30, 7:00 am, cjcampbell >
>> wrote:
>>
>> <SNIP>
>>
>> > In fact, people have been killed by Presidential motorcades, some
>> > recently. These things are dangerous. The Secret Service really needs
>> > to work on the disruption and hazards to safety caused by their
>> > security. Just because the SS guys are willing to take a bullet for
>> > the President does not meant that everyone else in the country feels
>> > the same way.- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> There have been fatal accidents involving police officers who were
>> part of the escort but I've not ever heard of cilvilians dying due to
>> actions related to POTUS escorts.
>
> Ah, well, if they were only police officers then it doesn't matter?

That wasn't his point even if your point was idiotic.

> Of
> course, given some of the other postings here, one might expect
> someone from Chandler to have that attitude. :-)

Jokes aside, it was the buttbrain from Washington that made the point in the
first place.

You can remove your foot from your mouth any time, CJ.
>

[Jay Beckman[_2_]]

On Aug 30, 2:35 pm, cjcampbell >
wrote:
> On Aug 30, 2:04 pm, Jay Beckman > wrote:
>
> > On Aug 30, 7:00 am, cjcampbell >
> > wrote:
>
> > <SNIP>
>
> > > In fact, people have been killed by Presidential motorcades, some
> > > recently. These things are dangerous. The Secret Service really needs
> > > to work on the disruption and hazards to safety caused by their
> > > security. Just because the SS guys are willing to take a bullet for
> > > the President does not meant that everyone else in the country feels
> > > the same way.- Hide quoted text -
>
> > There have been fatal accidents involving police officers who were
> > part of the escort but I've not ever heard of cilvilians dying due to
> > actions related to POTUS escorts.
>
> Ah, well, if they were only police officers then it doesn't matter? Of
> course, given some of the other postings here, one might expect
> someone from Chandler to have that attitude. :-)

As politely as I can put this CJ...Go **** Yourself..

Jay Beckman
PP-ASEL
Chandler, AZ

[Ricky]

On Aug 30, 5:56 pm, Mxsmanic > blabbed the
following stupidity & ignorance:

> Because your deity was gracious enough to permit it?

> He's paranoid, and apparently it's contagious.

> Emergencies always take precedence over everything.

> You must watch a lot of movies. Can you imagine the headlines? ...

> FAMILY OF FOUR KILLED BY BUSH SECURITY AFTER DECLARING EMERGENCY IN PRIVATE
> PLANE

> Yes, that would go over _real_ well.

> Is that how you defend your freedoms? By dismissing any discussion of them
> that becomes complex? Don't be surprised if you wake up one day and they are
> gone.

You, my friend, seem to have little room for using the word "complex."
You know, I am fairly new to this group but I have been in Usenet for
a long, long time (probably before you were born from the way you
talk). One of the positive aspects of Usenet is the ability to express
oneself in an unmoderated format, and in your case I certainly respect
that freedom.
However, in every Usenet group I've participated in there seems to be
one or several who have little better to do than show their lack of
intelligence, stupidity, immaturity, age (usually too young for mommy
to allow them on the computer), and ignorance. These types believe
they know a lot about everything and forcefully stick their asses in
the face of just about anyone who's opinion, view, or take on reality
differs from their own.
I'm glad that in you I have found one more way to save my time, and
that would be by giving you absolutely no more of it.

Ricky

[Ricky]

On Aug 30, 6:12 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
> "Ricky" < wrote
>
> > A few semesters ago some A&P students hopped the normally-open gate
> > going to the hangar during a Bush arrival or departure, worried about
> > missing lab. They were very quickly apprehended and detained,
> > questioned for many hours and ultimately put on a terrorist watch
> > list.
>
> Ahhh, once again, proving that in our youth, (and in the youth of today) we
> do not always stop to consider the implications of our activities.
>
> Still, that is a pretty good hit for them to take, but not completely (or
> even a little bit) surprising.

One of the really unfortunate aspects of this incident was that two of
these guys were in an internship offered to A&P students here by L3
Communications. L3 in Waco does almost exclusively modifications on
military aircraft (lots of restoring of P3 Orions). Many maintenance
students take advantage of this as L3 will pay your way through school
in exchange for a 2 yr. contract to work for them after graduation. At
L3 all employees are required to get varying levels of security
clearance due to the secret nature of much of the work done to the
military and government aircraft.
Unfortunately, both of these students lost their internships due to
the violation of the closed & locked gate and subsequent documentation
on the terrorist watch list.

Ricky

[Ricky]

On Aug 30, 5:53 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:

> But deadly force has never been used, has it?

> Typically walking through a gate (even a locked gate) or walking past someone
> in a dark suit is not a justification for the use of deadly force.

> What were their names, and on what date did this occur?

Do your mommy & daddy know you are on their computer?

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Matt Barrow wrote:

>>
>> There were several Black SUVs in attendance
> Could you tell if one was the Q-Car?

No but that would sorta be the point of the Q-Car.

[Mxsmanic]

Ricky writes:

> Do your mommy & daddy know you are on their computer?

I don't use their computer, as I'm no longer a schoolchild.

You haven't answered my question: what were their names, and what was the
date?

You see, getting names and dates is the first step in tracking down and
eliminating urban legends.

[Mxsmanic]

Ricky writes:

> You, my friend, seem to have little room for using the word "complex."

I didn't use it at all. Protecting your freedom is not complex, it's just
difficult. But if you don't protect it, you'll lose it, guaranteed. If you
do not defend your rights, you eventually won't have any. You can argue with
these realities all you want, but you can't change them.

[Martin Hotze]

Gig 601XL Builder schrieb:

> (...) While a individual or even
> many individulas might have in the past or in the future suffer some
> financial loss due to the steps required to protect the POTUS it pales in
> comparison to the loss that would be suffered by many, many people should he
> be killed, (...)


Hm, then the vice President steps up (as designed). If you _make_ him
(the POTUS) important than he _is_ important (and a more attractive
target). But if you treat it as a "well, I he get's killed then the next
one will step up" than you will have an easier live (and it will save
you tons of money).

#m
--
I am not a terrorist <http://www.casualdisobedience.com/>

[Dave S]

Ricky wrote:

> I'm an A&P student here at Texas State Technical College and our
> campus is the old James Connally Air Force Base (Waco, TX.). When Bush
> goes to & from Crawford, Air Force One lands & parks here as Waco
> Regional's runways are too short for a 747. He then takes Air Force 2
> (big helicopter) out to or from his ranch, flanked by several other
> mean looking choppers as well as identical decoys, I assume.
>

> Ricky
>

FYI... ANY air force aircraft with the Prez aboard is Air Force One.
Helicopter, 747, you name it. When the big blue jet is without the
president, it is not air force one.

Air Force Two is the call sign of an air force aircraft with the VP
aboard (when not outranked by the presence of the prez).

Marine One is ususally the call sign of the helicopter carrying the
president, since that is the service brance detailed with carrying the
president, both home and away, by helicopter.

Just nitpicks.

Dont worry.. Once bush leaves office, the bubble of airspace disappears
and you wont be troubled by it again (at least in Crawford) until Jenna
or barbara gains the presidency (grin)

[Jay Honeck]

> (When Bob Dole came to town several years ago he saw the Evergreen B-17
> parked near the hangar and made security and staff stop what they were doing
> so he could go tour the airplane and talk to the volunteers. Now there's a
> good man!)

Yep, Dole should've been elected president. Our country would have
benefited greatly from his wisdom and experience, IMHO.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> > Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change hasn't exactly gone over
> > well here.
>
> The U.S. is not at war.

Really? Tell that to the folks who attacked us, we taxpayers who are
footing the enormous bill, and to the mothers of our dead.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > > Maybe it's 'cause we're at war now, but, the change hasn't exactly gone over
> > > well here.
> >
> > The U.S. is not at war.

> Really? Tell that to the folks who attacked us, we taxpayers who are
> footing the enormous bill, and to the mothers of our dead.

He's just being his normal, anal retentive, nit picking, asshole self
trying to show everyone how intelligent he is.

Technically, the US hasn't been at war since WWII.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>> (When Bob Dole came to town several years ago he saw the Evergreen B-17
>> parked near the hangar and made security and staff stop what they were
>> doing
>> so he could go tour the airplane and talk to the volunteers. Now there's
>> a
>> good man!)
>
> Yep, Dole should've been elected president. Our country would have
> benefited greatly from his wisdom and experience, IMHO.

Dole, had he been elected (and given his opponent, that could not have been
bad), would have been another Dwight Eisenhower.

[Jim Logajan]

Bob Moore > wrote:
> In my Webster's, the word war can have several meanings
> besides a conflict between nations.
>
> Price war
> War on Poverty
> War on Drugs
> Trade war
> War of words
> etc

War of words? That'd be Usenet! Who knew so few people could generate so
many flamewars?

"Never in the field of human conflict was so much posted by so few."

;-)

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Jim Logajan" > wrote in message
.. .
> Bob Moore > wrote:
>> In my Webster's, the word war can have several meanings
>> besides a conflict between nations.
>>
>> Price war
>> War on Poverty
>> War on Drugs
>> Trade war
>> War of words
>> etc
>
> War of words? That'd be Usenet! Who knew so few people could generate so
> many flamewars?
>
> "Never in the field of human conflict was so much posted by so few."
>
> ;-)

Flame war? Shouldn't that be "..toasted by so few"?

[Mxsmanic]

Matt Barrow writes:

> Dole, had he been elected (and given his opponent, that could not have been
> bad), would have been another Dwight Eisenhower.

Is that good or bad?

[Mxsmanic]

Jay Honeck writes:

> Really? Tell that to the folks who attacked us, we taxpayers who are
> footing the enormous bill, and to the mothers of our dead.

The smart ones already know, and the stupid ones refuse to listen.

The United States routinely gets involved in military actions at the whim of
whoever is President at the time, and only rarely is war actually declared
(which requires an act of Congress, literally).

The folks who attacked the U.S. were terrorists. If they had the means to
wage an actual war, rest assured, they would have done so. Terrorism is the
last resort of those who don't have a standing military at their disposal.

[Gattman[_2_]]

"Matt Barrow" > wrote in message
...
>
>> Yep, Dole should've been elected president. Our country would have
>> benefited greatly from his wisdom and experience, IMHO.
>
> Dole, had he been elected (and given his opponent, that could not have
> been bad), would have been another Dwight Eisenhower.

Fascinating. Ike was before my time, so I'm curious what you mean by that.

-c

[Gattman[_2_]]

"Dave S" > wrote in message
...


> Marine One is ususally the call sign of the helicopter carrying the
> president, since that is the service brance detailed with carrying the
> president, both home and away, by helicopter.

Trivia: The next-generation HMX-1 (Marine One) helicopter:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US101-CZG-082007-002.jpg

I used to see HMX-1 helicopters at Quantico. There's a wall there so you
couldn't see exactly what was going on when they were on the ground, but you
could see when it departed.

-c

[Rich Ahrens]

cjcampbell wrote:
> Funny you should mention that. President Bush's recent visit to
> Seattle delayed me over an hour while I was on my way to the
> pharmacist. What if it had been an emergency and I had died? There
> were no alternative routes due to the constrictions of lots of water
> and narrow bits of land in the Seattle area.
>
> The Southcenter Mall was virtually shut down for hours. The entire
> mall! Because the police had blocked off *every* road that led to it.
> You probably could have fired a cannon through there and not hit
> anyone. Bush was not anywhere near the mall except for two periods of
> less than five minutes as he traveled the freeway nearby.

I was recently blocked from driving out of my home building for six
hours, as was pretty much everyone else in the row of buildings around
me, because they had "sterilized" that street in advance of Shrub's
arrival. Same thing - he was nowhere near us except for the brief time
it took the motorcade to race in and out. At least it gave me the
opportunity to stand in the driveway and flip him off as they drove by...

[[email protected]]

Bob Moore > wrote:
>
> > Technically, the US hasn't been at war since WWII.

> In my Webster's, the word war can have several meanings
> besides a conflict between nations.

> Price war
> War on Poverty
> War on Drugs
> Trade war
> War of words
> etc

> Bob Moore

Yeah, right.

Feed the troll.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

[Blueskies]

"Gattman" > wrote in message ...
>
> "Dave S" > wrote in message ...
>
>
>> Marine One is ususally the call sign of the helicopter carrying the president, since that is the service brance
>> detailed with carrying the president, both home and away, by helicopter.
>
> Trivia: The next-generation HMX-1 (Marine One) helicopter:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US101-CZG-082007-002.jpg
>
> I used to see HMX-1 helicopters at Quantico. There's a wall there so you couldn't see exactly what was going on when
> they were on the ground, but you could see when it departed.
>
> -c

Yup, not even an American made 'copter. Is the new AirForce 1 going to be an Airbus?

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/us-debating-aerial-tanker-types-mix-02044/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_KC-30_Refuels_B-2_Concept_lg.jpg

[Matt Barrow[_4_]]

"Blueskies" > wrote in message
et...
>
> "Gattman" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Dave S" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>
>>> Marine One is ususally the call sign of the helicopter carrying the
>>> president, since that is the service brance detailed with carrying the
>>> president, both home and away, by helicopter.
>>
>> Trivia: The next-generation HMX-1 (Marine One) helicopter:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:US101-CZG-082007-002.jpg
>>
>> I used to see HMX-1 helicopters at Quantico. There's a wall there so you
>> couldn't see exactly what was going on when they were on the ground, but
>> you could see when it departed.
>>
>> -c
>
> Yup, not even an American made 'copter.

Thank Hillary for putting the New Yorkers to work.

>Is the new AirForce 1 going to be an Airbus?

Sukhoi.

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

> Yep, Dole should've been elected president.

....in 2000.

> Our country would have
> benefited greatly from his wisdom and experience, IMHO.

Yep.

--
Dan

"Sanity is not to be without fantasy, but to know reality, and remember the
difference."
- Clive James

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Really-Old-Fart" wrote:

> I have to say that I would definitely celebrate her
> being assasinated -- especially if Bill managed to be taken out with her.

Incredible.

Ya know, I don't much care for Hillary, but it will be fun watching talk radio
remoras like you fume and sputter if she gets elected.

--
Dan

"Almost all the matter that came out of the Big Bang was two specific sorts;
hydrogen, and stupidity."

-Robert Carnegie in talk.origins

[Jay Honeck]

> Ya know, I don't much care for Hillary, but it will be fun watching talk radio
> remoras like you fume and sputter if she gets elected.

I think it's hilarious, and more than a little weird, that in an
election year where the Democrats could almost literally run ANYONE
(up to an including Josef Stalin or Adolph Hitler) and win the White
House, their two current front-runners are virtually unelectable.

If the "Republicans" (whatever *they* are anymore) retain the White
House because of this, it will be truly a shame.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Dan Luke[_2_]]

"Jay Honeck" wrote:

> I think it's hilarious, and more than a little weird, that in an
> election year where the Democrats could almost literally run ANYONE
> (up to an including Josef Stalin or Adolph Hitler) and win the White
> House, their two current front-runners are virtually unelectable.

So, what else is new?


> If the "Republicans" (whatever *they* are anymore) retain the White
> House because of this, it will be truly a shame.

It's liable to be a shame either way.

--
Dan

"How can an idiot be a policeman? Answer me that!"
- Chief Inspector Dreyfus