How do you submit a NOTAM?

[[email protected]]

Hello,

New to aviation and I would like to know how to submit a NOTAM. I plan
to launch an unmanned free balloon a few months from now with a
payload of scientific instruments weighing less than 4lbs. The
projected flight-path will take the balloon only through CLASS G and A
airspace (and maybe Class E). According the FAA, an unmanned free-
balloon with a payload less than 4 lbs does not require prior
notification before launch. However, I think it would be prudent to
submit a NOTAM.

I would love to hear anyone's experience on on unmanned free-balloons
- should I really not worry about the NOTAM? Either way, I would like
to know more about submitting them.

Thanks,
John

[John Godwin]

wrote in
ups.com:

> New to aviation and I would like to know how to submit a NOTAM. I
> plan to launch an unmanned free balloon a few months from now with
> a payload of scientific instruments weighing less than 4lbs. The
> projected flight-path will take the balloon only through CLASS G
> and A airspace (and maybe Class E). According the FAA, an unmanned
> free- balloon with a payload less than 4 lbs does not require
> prior notification before launch. However, I think it would be
> prudent to submit a NOTAM.
>
I was Chief Engineer at a radio station many years ago. Whenever our
transmitter tower lights went OTS, I called the nearest Flight
Service Station and explained the situation. A NOTAM was issued.



--

[El Maximo]

"John Godwin" > wrote in message
...

> I was Chief Engineer at a radio station many years ago. Whenever our
> transmitter tower lights went OTS, I called the nearest Flight
> Service Station and explained the situation. A NOTAM was issued.
>

I once called Flight Service because there was no NOTAM for a 1000' unlit
tower. They told me that there was nothing they could do because it wasn't
my tower.

That would have really sucked if someone had hit it.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> New to aviation and I would like to know how to submit a NOTAM. I plan
> to launch an unmanned free balloon a few months from now with a
> payload of scientific instruments weighing less than 4lbs. The
> projected flight-path will take the balloon only through CLASS G and A
> airspace (and maybe Class E). According the FAA, an unmanned free-
> balloon with a payload less than 4 lbs does not require prior
> notification before launch. However, I think it would be prudent to
> submit a NOTAM.
>

MAYBE Class E? Where do you intend to launch this balloon so that it will
definitely pass through Class G and Class A airspace but perhaps not Class
E?

[[email protected]]

On Aug 31, 1:15 pm, wrote:
> Hello,
>
> New to aviation and I would like to know how to submit a NOTAM. I plan
> to launch an unmanned free balloon a few months from now with a
> payload of scientific instruments weighing less than 4lbs. The
> projected flight-path will take the balloon only through CLASS G and A
> airspace (and maybe Class E). According the FAA, an unmanned free-
> balloon with a payload less than 4 lbs does not require prior
> notification before launch. However, I think it would be prudent to
> submit a NOTAM.
>
> I would love to hear anyone's experience on on unmanned free-balloons
> - should I really not worry about the NOTAM? Either way, I would like
> to know more about submitting them.
>
> Thanks,
> John

Does it half a payload release and recovery parachute on it so you can
bring it back down on command?

[buttman]

On Aug 31, 12:29 pm, "El Maximo" > wrote:
> "John Godwin" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
> > I was Chief Engineer at a radio station many years ago. Whenever our
> > transmitter tower lights went OTS, I called the nearest Flight
> > Service Station and explained the situation. A NOTAM was issued.
>
> I once called Flight Service because there was no NOTAM for a 1000' unlit
> tower. They told me that there was nothing they could do because it wasn't
> my tower.
>
> That would have really sucked if someone had hit it.

Back when I was a private student, the airport I planned on going to
for my night cross country was NOTAMed with the airport light beacon
out of service. When we got there we discovered the beacon was indeed
working. We had to call flight service because we forgot to close our
flight plan in the air, and we told them about the working light, so
they just put it in the system as a pirep. When we got back we checked
pireps, and there it was, our pirep saying the lights were indeed
working.

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hello,
>
> New to aviation and I would like to know how to submit a NOTAM. I plan
> to launch an unmanned free balloon a few months from now with a
> payload of scientific instruments weighing less than 4lbs. The
> projected flight-path will take the balloon only through CLASS G and A
> airspace (and maybe Class E). According the FAA, an unmanned free-
> balloon with a payload less than 4 lbs does not require prior
> notification before launch. However, I think it would be prudent to
> submit a NOTAM.
>
> I would love to hear anyone's experience on on unmanned free-balloons
> - should I really not worry about the NOTAM? Either way, I would like
> to know more about submitting them.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

The experts on this sort of thing are over on rec.models.rockets...

Really.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[[email protected]]

Thanks for the quick responses.

> MAYBE Class E? Where do you intend to launch this balloon so that it will
> definitely pass through Class G and Class A airspace but perhaps not Class
> E?

I may have it wrong, but my understanding is in the U.S. Class G is
uncontrolled airspace, and Class A is everything from 18000ft to
60000ft. Well, the balloon will definitely go through Class A in this
case. As far as Class E and G, maybe I am reading the charts all
wrong.

Looking at the Skyvector site, lets say I were to launch at 36N 87W
near Nashville. If the wind were to push the balloon east or north it
could drift into Class E space briefly. Otherwise, the balloon would
only be in Class G then A. No?

> Does it half a payload release and recovery parachute on it so you can
> bring it back down on command?

Yes.

-John

[Ron Natalie]

El Maximo wrote:

>
> I once called Flight Service because there was no NOTAM for a 1000' unlit
> tower. They told me that there was nothing they could do because it wasn't
> my tower.
>
> That would have really sucked if someone had hit it.
>
>
They told you wrong. 200 feet is the threshold. We specifically built
a 199' tower to avoid having to worry about it at our station.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
>
> I may have it wrong, but my understanding is in the U.S. Class G is
> uncontrolled airspace, and Class A is everything from 18000ft to
> 60000ft. Well, the balloon will definitely go through Class A in this
> case. As far as Class E and G, maybe I am reading the charts all
> wrong.
>
> Looking at the Skyvector site, lets say I were to launch at 36N 87W
> near Nashville. If the wind were to push the balloon east or north it
> could drift into Class E space briefly. Otherwise, the balloon would
> only be in Class G then A. No?
>

At 36N 87W, starting at the surface and working up, the airspace is Class G
to 1200 AGL, Class E to FL 180, Class A to FL 600, and Class E to where
airspace becomes just space.

[Steven P. McNicoll[_2_]]

On Aug 31, 4:54 pm, Ron Natalie > wrote:
>
> They told you wrong. 200 feet is the threshold. We specifically built
> a 199' tower to avoid having to worry about it at our station.
>


FSS couldn't generate a NOTAM from his report of the lighting outage.
That has nothing to do with the marking and lighting requirements

[[email protected]]

On Aug 31, 6:01 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll" >
wrote:
>
> At 36N 87W, starting at the surface and working up, the airspace is Class G
> to 1200 AGL, Class E to FL 180, Class A to FL 600, and Class E to where
> airspace becomes just space.

Please forgive my ignorance as I learn to read an aeronautical chart.
Looking at the legend it appears Class E is the purple gradient circle
and Class C is the solid line around Nashville. How do you interpret
that 36N 87W is in Class E, as it is outside that gradient circle? Is
Class E space "just everywhere" like Class A? If it is, why label it
separately on charts?

Thanks.

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Please forgive my ignorance as I learn to read an aeronautical chart.
> Looking at the legend it appears Class E is the purple gradient circle
> and Class C is the solid line around Nashville. How do you interpret
> that 36N 87W is in Class E, as it is outside that gradient circle? Is
> Class E space "just everywhere" like Class A? If it is, why label it
> separately on charts?
>

Look at the chart legend under "Airport Traffic Service and Airspace
Information". Just beneath the airspace symbology is the statement, "Class
E Airspace exists at 1200' AGL unless otherwise designated as shown above."

[Vaughn Simon]

"John Godwin" > wrote in message
...
> wrote in
> ups.com:
>
>> New to aviation and I would like to know how to submit a NOTAM. I
>> plan to launch an unmanned free balloon a few months from now with
>> a payload of scientific instruments weighing less than 4lbs. The
>> projected flight-path will take the balloon only through CLASS G
>> and A airspace (and maybe Class E). According the FAA, an unmanned
>> free- balloon with a payload less than 4 lbs does not require
>> prior notification before launch. However, I think it would be
>> prudent to submit a NOTAM.
>>
> I was Chief Engineer at a radio station many years ago. Whenever our
> transmitter tower lights went OTS, I called the nearest Flight
> Service Station and explained the situation. A NOTAM was issued.
>
>
>
> --

[Vaughn Simon]

"John Godwin" > wrote in message
...
..
>>
> I was Chief Engineer at a radio station many years ago. Whenever our
> transmitter tower lights went OTS, I called the nearest Flight
> Service Station and explained the situation. A NOTAM was issued.

A while back, I had a light that was going to be out for a couple of hours.
In accordance to my past experience and regulations, I called my nearest FSS.
Of course, some dum**** from LockMart answered the phone and knew nothing about
how to generate a NOTAM. After a long delay, he gave me some usless phone
numbers that nobody answered.

I tried some other things, but finally gave up in disgust!

I someone has a good 24 hour number that would be answered by a real FAA
person, I am ready to copy.

(Sorry for the double post)

Vaughn
>
>
>
> --

[John Godwin]

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote in
:

> In accordance to my past experience and regulations, I called my
> nearest FSS. Of course, some dum**** from LockMart answered the
> phone and knew nothing about how to generate a NOTAM. After a
> long delay, he gave me some usless phone numbers that nobody
> answered.
>
I guess that I was extremely lucky because it was back in 1956 when
there were REAL Flight Service Stations. <g>


--

[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:26:28 -0000, John Godwin
> wrote:
>
>I was Chief Engineer at a radio station many years ago. Whenever our
>transmitter tower lights went OTS, I called the nearest Flight
>Service Station and explained the situation. A NOTAM was issued.


I work for a large telco, and we have towers that require FAA
notification for lighting outages. The lower ones that require
reports are close to airports. AFAIK, we get fined for not fixing
them fast enough, too.

The towers that require lights have lighting failure alarm telemetry.

[B A R R Y]

On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:51:34 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote:

>
>The experts on this sort of thing are over on rec.models.rockets...
>
>Really.


I second that.

Really.

Note the "Unmanned Rocket" NOTAMS in a given area.

[[email protected]]

On Aug 31, 6:47 pm, "Steven P. McNicoll" >
wrote:
>
> Look at the chart legend under "Airport Traffic Service and Airspace
> Information". Just beneath the airspace symbology is the statement, "Class
> E Airspace exists at 1200' AGL unless otherwise designated as shown above."

Ohhh! I see, the purple gradients are for Class E with a floor of
700', and that's why they show it separately.This really helps my
understanding.

So does Class E have any special restrictions on unmanned free-
balloons? The FAA guidelines on unmanned free balloons says nothing
about airspace classes, only payload. I just thought it wise to avoid
the Class C airspace in my area all together.

-John

[[email protected]]

On Aug 31, 7:45 pm, B A R R Y > wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:51:34 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
> Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote:
>
>
>
> >The experts on this sort of thing are over on rec.models.rockets...
>
> >Really.
>
> I second that.
>
> Really.
>
> Note the "Unmanned Rocket" NOTAMS in a given area.


I'll ask the rocket group, but FAA the rules for unmanned free-
balloons are very different from the rockets.

-John

[[email protected]]

On Aug 31, 7:48 pm, wrote:
> On Aug 31, 7:45 pm, B A R R Y > wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 31 Aug 2007 17:51:34 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
> > Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote:
>
> > >The experts on this sort of thing are over on rec.models.rockets...
>
> > >Really.
>
> > I second that.
>
> > Really.
>
> > Note the "Unmanned Rocket" NOTAMS in a given area.
>
> I'll ask the rocket group, but FAA the rules for unmanned free-
> balloons are very different from the rockets.
>
> -John


I did some more searching on the web and I think I found my answers.
Thanks all.

-John

[Morgans[_2_]]

<john.> wrote > I did some more searching on the web and I think I found my
answers.

> Thanks all.

Well, don't leave us hangin', dude!

I'm sure that I'm not the only one that is curious as to what you found out.
That's how it is around here; always anxious to learn something that I
didn't know when I got out of bed this morning.

At least that is the way I am!
--
Jim in NC

[El Maximo]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
m...
> El Maximo wrote:
>
>>
>> I once called Flight Service because there was no NOTAM for a 1000' unlit
>> tower. They told me that there was nothing they could do because it
>> wasn't my tower.
>>
>> That would have really sucked if someone had hit it.
> They told you wrong. 200 feet is the threshold. We specifically built
> a 199' tower to avoid having to worry about it at our station.

Let me rephrase:

There is a tower near my house that is over 1000'. It is frequently (a few
times a year) NOTAMed as unlit. One time I noticed the lights were not
working. I called Flight Service and was told that they would do nothing
about it based on my phone call, because I did not control the tower.

[El Maximo]

What he said.

"Steven P. McNicoll" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>>
>> Please forgive my ignorance as I learn to read an aeronautical chart.
>> Looking at the legend it appears Class E is the purple gradient circle
>> and Class C is the solid line around Nashville. How do you interpret
>> that 36N 87W is in Class E, as it is outside that gradient circle? Is
>> Class E space "just everywhere" like Class A? If it is, why label it
>> separately on charts?
>>
>
> Look at the chart legend under "Airport Traffic Service and Airspace
> Information". Just beneath the airspace symbology is the statement,
> "Class E Airspace exists at 1200' AGL unless otherwise designated as shown
> above."
>

[[email protected]]

On Aug 31, 8:16 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
>
> Well, don't leave us hangin', dude!
>
> I'm sure that I'm not the only one that is curious as to what you found out.


Sorry bout that. It didn't seem like anyone knew or cared much about
balloons since I kept hearing about rockets and antennas. ;-)

For some reason a few weeks ago in Google I couldn't find much, but I
searched again and found a blog where someone was also sending up a
balloon. They contacted the FAA in their area and the FAA has this to
say:

BEGIN QUOTE

Per our phone conversation. If you are less than the applicability
section, you do not need a waiver. If you are more than the
applicability, but can meet all the remaining requirements under the
highlighted sections operating limitations and marking, you still
don't need a waiver. Instead, we would just give you the phone number
of the nearest ATC facility to contact to meet the notification
requirements. If there is no waiver, there is no NOTAM. The AFSS only
issues a NOTAM if there is a waiver. Give me a call when you decide
where you're at within the part 101 and we'll go from there.

Cheryl Krieger Brown
System Support Specialist
FAA ATO, Western Service Center
1601 Lind Ave. SW
Renton, WA 98057

END QUOTE

Key part there is "The AFSS only issues a NOTAM if there is a waiver"

So my particular flight is not applicable by the FAA rules, so there
will be no waiver and no NOTAM. I already read the regulations once,
but I found a nice annotated version here: http://www.eoss.org/pubs/far_annotated.htm
I'm less than 4lbs and will not be a hazard so subpart D does not
apply so I don't even have to notify the ATC.

> That's how it is around here; always anxious to learn something that I
> didn't know when I got out of bed this morning.
>
> At least that is the way I am!

I hear you. Thanks again to Steven for helping me with the charts!

-John

[Blueskies]

"El Maximo" > wrote in message ...
> "Ron Natalie" > wrote in message m...
>> El Maximo wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I once called Flight Service because there was no NOTAM for a 1000' unlit tower. They told me that there was nothing
>>> they could do because it wasn't my tower.
>>>
>>> That would have really sucked if someone had hit it.
>> They told you wrong. 200 feet is the threshold. We specifically built
>> a 199' tower to avoid having to worry about it at our station.
>
> Let me rephrase:
>
> There is a tower near my house that is over 1000'. It is frequently (a few times a year) NOTAMed as unlit. One time I
> noticed the lights were not working. I called Flight Service and was told that they would do nothing about it based on
> my phone call, because I did not control the tower.
>

Tell them it is a PIREP

[BT]

you will need to contact the local FAA Flight Standards District Office for
the assist formatting and issuing the proper NOTAM.
you do not have the authority to issue a notam


> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Hello,
>
> New to aviation and I would like to know how to submit a NOTAM. I plan
> to launch an unmanned free balloon a few months from now with a
> payload of scientific instruments weighing less than 4lbs. The
> projected flight-path will take the balloon only through CLASS G and A
> airspace (and maybe Class E). According the FAA, an unmanned free-
> balloon with a payload less than 4 lbs does not require prior
> notification before launch. However, I think it would be prudent to
> submit a NOTAM.
>
> I would love to hear anyone's experience on on unmanned free-balloons
> - should I really not worry about the NOTAM? Either way, I would like
> to know more about submitting them.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"John Godwin" > wrote in message
...
>
> I guess that I was extremely lucky because it was back in 1956 when
> there were REAL Flight Service Stations. <g>
>

There were no Flight Service Stations in 1956. On March 1, 1960, Air
Traffic Communications Stations were renamed Flight Service Stations.

[Bob Martin]

wrote:
> On Aug 31, 8:16 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
>> Well, don't leave us hangin', dude!
>>
>> I'm sure that I'm not the only one that is curious as to what you found out.
>
>
> Sorry bout that. It didn't seem like anyone knew or cared much about
> balloons since I kept hearing about rockets and antennas. ;-)

We're an easily-distracted lot. Short attention spans and all that...

[Steven P. McNicoll]

> wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> Ohhh! I see, the purple gradients are for Class E with a floor of
> 700', and that's why they show it separately.This really helps my
> understanding.
>

It's magenta.


>
> So does Class E have any special restrictions on unmanned free-
> balloons?
>

Yes. Unless otherwise authorized by ATC, no person may operate an unmanned
free balloon below 2,000 feet above the surface within the lateral
boundaries of a Class E surface area. A surface area exists when controlled
airspace begins at the surface.



>
> The FAA guidelines on unmanned free balloons says nothing
> about airspace classes, only payload. I just thought it wise to avoid
> the Class C airspace in my area all together.
>

See FAR Part 101- Moored Balloons, Kites, Unmanned Rockets and Unmanned Free
Balloons.

http://tinyurl.com/2u6zvn

[Jackal24]

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote in
:

> I someone has a good 24 hour number that would be answered by a
> real FAA
> person, I am ready to copy.

1-800-WX BRIEF

Oh wait. That only gets you the FAA if you are still in Alaska and don't
have to put up with the Lockheed BS.

[[email protected]]

wrote:

>
> I would love to hear anyone's experience on on unmanned free-balloons
> - should I really not worry about the NOTAM? Either way, I would like
> to know more about submitting them.


Check with your local hams too. I know the ham club at work does at
least one
balloon launch a year here in the DFW area. The last one they had to
delay for a
week due to the announcement of a TFR that was right in the flight
path and they
would have to transit through it. ARRL can put you intouch with your
local guys if
you don't know any.