If a club had no hangar space, what aircraft could they use?

[Dan G]

Imagine a club in a fairly wet (24" rain a year) temperate climate,
which doesn't have a hangar. What gliders and tugs could they use,
which would be able to survive living outside all year round? I'm
thinking both two-seat trainers (Blaniks?) and single-seaters, and
tugs that could operate off a grass strip (I can't think of a tug that
doesn't need a hangar :-s).


Dan

[HL Falbaum]

Our club--Mid Georgia Soaring Assn, has had several Blaniks (L-13's) over a
long period of time----> 20yr---. Sometimes we had 2 Blaniks at a time. All
kept outside. Monroe Georgia is near Atlanta---heat, humidity, abundant
rain, drought, abumdant UV.

They are metal, except for the control surfaces which are fabric. We have
twice gone through the control surface recovering exercise. Neither cheap
nor fun.

They have several areas that corrode easily---the trim cables for one point.
They also leak---you can find water in the cockpit and in the rear fuselage.
The drain hole plugs easily with a bit of dirt and you have "travelling"
ballast to make for interesting CG experiences. There is an inspection port
to check for this on preflight.

In short, Blaniks are more delicate than they look. Perhaps a private owner
could take proper care of it and make it work ( Lots of LPS 3 and
ventillated covers for the controls and canopy) but in a club
environment--good luck.

The 2-33's and 1-26's are often left outside, but without constant care,
they too will suffer.

Bottom line---If you are forced into a harsh environment, you must prepare
for a constant battle against the elements---you can win, but it is a lot of
work.

--
Hartley Falbaum
USA---


"Dan G" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> Imagine a club in a fairly wet (24" rain a year) temperate climate,
> which doesn't have a hangar. What gliders and tugs could they use,
> which would be able to survive living outside all year round? I'm
> thinking both two-seat trainers (Blaniks?) and single-seaters, and
> tugs that could operate off a grass strip (I can't think of a tug that
> doesn't need a hangar :-s).
>
>
> Dan
>

[Chris Reed[_1_]]

Dan G wrote:
> Imagine a club in a fairly wet (24" rain a year) temperate climate,
> which doesn't have a hangar. What gliders and tugs could they use,
> which would be able to survive living outside all year round? I'm
> thinking both two-seat trainers (Blaniks?) and single-seaters, and
> tugs that could operate off a grass strip (I can't think of a tug that
> doesn't need a hangar :-s).
>
>
> Dan
>
My club in the UK is in an area which on average has almost exactly 24"
of rainfall a year. Annual temperature range is about -2 to +30
Centigrade, with occasional short periods colder or hotter.

We operate a 180hp Rallye off grass, and the aircraft lives outside year
round (it has a solid canopy cover and is tied down). It seems (from the
other end of the rope) to be a pretty good tug. I've only recently
joined, but the tug has been with the club for about 3 years and show no
signs of suffering from the weather.

We are only 200ft msl though, if that's relevant. However, I've also
been towed behind a Rallye at about 2,000 ft msl and 40 degrees
Centigrade in Spain, and that was fine too.

[Frank Whiteley]

On Sep 1, 3:06 am, Dan G > wrote:
> Imagine a club in a fairly wet (24" rain a year) temperate climate,
> which doesn't have a hangar. What gliders and tugs could they use,
> which would be able to survive living outside all year round? I'm
> thinking both two-seat trainers (Blaniks?) and single-seaters, and
> tugs that could operate off a grass strip (I can't think of a tug that
> doesn't need a hangar :-s).
>
> Dan

K-21 or PW-6 with enclosed trailers. Both are easily rigged and
derigged. Grobs are only slightly more problematic. Blaniks are a
bit more work to rig, derig, and trailer. C182 fitted with towing oil
cooler can live outside. Although many gliders can live outside, they
deteriorate more quickly in $$ terms than the price of a good
trailer. Trailers are also additional protection against vandalism.
Many singles are suitable and easily trailered.

If it sounds like too much effort, you may need to reassess the
benefits and burdens of club membership and ownership and sharing of
such valued equipment.

Frank Whiteley

[Dan G]

Thanks for your replies. It sounds like keeping GRP gliders in
trailers looks like the answer, although has anyone experience of
using all-weather covers (e.g. Jaxida) year-round?

The Rallye looks a good choice for tug, I see it's all-metal (and our
climate sounds just about the same as yours, Chris). Anyone know if
the Pawnee can be kept outside?


Dan

[Chris Reed[_1_]]

Dan G wrote:
> Thanks for your replies. It sounds like keeping GRP gliders in
> trailers looks like the answer, although has anyone experience of
> using all-weather covers (e.g. Jaxida) year-round?
>
I've no direct experience of covers myself, but it seems to take nearly
as long to take the covers off a glider as to rig it. The exception
seems to be Open Class gliders, though even there the difference can be
marginal.

As someone who nagged a syndicate of which I was a member into keeping
our Astir in its trailer, rather than a hangar, I can say that once we
were in practice it took less time to rig the aircraft than to extract
it from the back of the hangar. With practice and a few rigging aids
(trestles and a dolly to roll the wing around) I'd think a modern
2-seater would be ready to fly in about 30 mins (and never allow more
than 3 people to be involved in rigging - each extra person doubles the
time it will take!).

Once members are in practice, rigging each day is really no big deal. It
also helps to encourage XC flights; the glider has to be de-rigged
somewhere so a field is really not much worse than the airfield.

[Vaughn Simon]

"Dan G" > wrote in message
oups.com...
>
> The Rallye looks a good choice for tug, I see it's all-metal (and our
> climate sounds just about the same as yours, Chris). Anyone know if
> the Pawnee can be kept outside?

Our Pawnee never saw the inside of a hanger except when receiving
maintenance, same for the Maule.

Just look at any small airport and you will see from dozens to hundreds of
light planes baking out in the sun, including the place where I rent Cezznas.
It isn't the best, but most planes seem to survive decades of such treatment
quite well.

Vaughn

[Papa3]

On Sep 1, 5:06 am, Dan G > wrote:
> Imagine a club in a fairly wet (24" rain a year) temperate climate,
> which doesn't have a hangar. What gliders and tugs could they use,
> which would be able to survive living outside all year round? I'm
> thinking both two-seat trainers (Blaniks?) and single-seaters, and
> tugs that could operate off a grass strip (I can't think of a tug that
> doesn't need a hangar :-s).
>
> Dan

Here in the US, I'd say that the majority of glider operations have
tow aircraft which spend either most or all of their lives outside.
This includes the usual assortment of aircraft from Pawnees, to Super
Cubs, Citabrias, Scouts... you name it. If you think about it, any
of the aircraft originally built as agricultural sprayers (e.g. the
Pawnee) were not given pampered treatment at any point in their lives
- most of them flew from jobsite to jobsite all spring and summer.
The downside of outdoor storage is that paint and fabric will clearly
have a shorter lifespan than a ship that lives inside. You'll also
have to deal with some amount of insidious corrosion that you might
not otherwise face. But, it's pretty easy to account for more
maintenance work and more frequent recovers in your budgeting
process.

In terms of gliders, almost any glider port you visit here will have
an assortment of Schweizers tied out. These are tube and fabric or
aluminum skinned ships, so the same issues of paint and fabric
apply. There are also some airframe issues directly related to
exposure, such as the longerons on the bottom of the fuselage which
may be subject to corrosion if water sits in the fuselage. We also
have some operations that have glass ships (especially Grobs and
K-21s) tied out, many of them in harsh desert climates. It's
obviously not great - many of these ships are extensively crazed and
pretty grungy looking. But, in a place where hangar space may be
prohibitively expensive, it is often cheaper to live with a refininish
every 10 years than to pay for indoor storage.

I haven't had great experience with Grob 103s in terms of daily
assembly. Perhaps if your club is in a position to assemble once on
Saturday and disassemble on Sunday, it might work out. A Duo, on
the other hand, seems to go together much more easily. The key is
having a few people who REALLY know what they're doing and to have all
of the right stands and rigging aids.

Erik Mann