Steve Fossett missing?

[Rob Turk[_2_]]

CNN reports Steve Fossett is missing.
"
Fossett took off from a private air strip known as Flying M Ranch, near
Smith Valley, 30 miles south of Yerington, Nevada, on Monday, with enough
fuel for four to five hours of flight, according to the Civil Air Patrol.
Yerington is south of Carson City, near the California border."



Let's hope for the best

[JohnO]

On Sep 5, 7:13 am, "Rob Turk" > wrote:
> CNN reports Steve Fossett is missing.
> "
> Fossett took off from a private air strip known as Flying M Ranch, near
> Smith Valley, 30 miles south of Yerington, Nevada, on Monday, with enough
> fuel for four to five hours of flight, according to the Civil Air Patrol.
> Yerington is south of Carson City, near the California border."
>
> Let's hope for the best

Anyone know what he was flying?

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"JohnO" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 5, 7:13 am, "Rob Turk" > wrote:
>> CNN reports Steve Fossett is missing.
>> "
>> Fossett took off from a private air strip known as Flying M Ranch, near
>> Smith Valley, 30 miles south of Yerington, Nevada, on Monday, with enough
>> fuel for four to five hours of flight, according to the Civil Air Patrol.
>> Yerington is south of Carson City, near the California border."
>>
>> Let's hope for the best
>
> Anyone know what he was flying?
>

His blue and white Decathlon

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"JohnO" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 5, 7:13 am, "Rob Turk" > wrote:
>> CNN reports Steve Fossett is missing.
>> "
>> Fossett took off from a private air strip known as Flying M Ranch, near
>> Smith Valley, 30 miles south of Yerington, Nevada, on Monday, with enough
>> fuel for four to five hours of flight, according to the Civil Air Patrol.
>> Yerington is south of Carson City, near the California border."
>>
>> Let's hope for the best
>
> Anyone know what he was flying?

Citabria, according to AvWeb. A search of the area has been initiated.
--
Jim in NC

[[email protected]]

Fossett had a typical ELT that apparently did not turn on or was out
of range.

I have a APRS tracker that continuously sends position/velocity info
on the ham frequency. Worked very well so far and gives peace of mind
to relatives - and useful to FAA on a flight plan. If Fosset had a
continuous tracker, the job of finding him might have been a lot
easier.

You can build an APRS tracker for about $250. A basic ham license is
easy to get.

For more info http://www.abri.com/sq2000/GPStrack.html
------------------------------------------------
SQ2000 canard, http://www.abri.com/sq2000/

On Sep 4, 2:13 pm, "Rob Turk" > wrote:
> CNN reports Steve Fossett is missing.
> "
> Fossett took off from a private air strip known as Flying M Ranch, near
> Smith Valley, 30 miles south of Yerington, Nevada, on Monday, with enough
> fuel for four to five hours of flight, according to the Civil Air Patrol.
> Yerington is south of Carson City, near the California border."
>
> Let's hope for the best

[Montblack]

wrote)
> You can build an APRS tracker for about $250. A basic ham license is easy
> to get.
>
> For more info http://www.abri.com/sq2000/GPStrack.html


http://www.abri.com/sq2000/APRSBasics.txt
Interesting...

Bring a Pilot to School Day:

Can you explain how this works, like we're a class of 8th graders? We'll,
7th graders, really. See, 8th grade just started, but we're still reviewing
from last year...


Paul-Mont

[Steve S.]

On Sep 5, 10:21 pm, wrote:
>
> I have a APRS tracker that continuously sends position/velocity info
> on the ham frequency.

This happens to be a topic near and dear to my uber-geeky heart. On
the one hand we have ELTs, which *hopefully* kick off when a plane
crashes. If it isn't damaged in the crash . . . if the batteries are
still good . . . if the antenna leads stay attached . . . etc. On
the other hand we have a system that is designed to tell you where the
plane is at all times, and hey, if the guy doesn't come home--play
back the recorded position data and go look in the area where the
signal stopped.

--Air-side cost . . . compared to an ELT, the things are quite
reasonable. Compared to a 406 ELT, they're peanuts.
--Ground-side cost . . . the ground side would need to get built--I
would speculate that a receiver/recorder per ATC sector would do
nicely. You could build the ground side for the entire nation for
next to nothing (when measured by gov't standards). There are guys on
this group, right now, that could design and deploy the whole ground
side without even thinking hard.
--Position data recording . . . compared to what a TIVO packs away,
setting up a system to record, say, the last 72 hours worth of
reported positions for airplanes in a given region is pretty darn
approachable. Lat/Lon, speed & altitude. That is not a lot a data.
Don't even record all of it, just record 5 minute intervals or
similar. Get fancy and make the intervals speed-sensitive. It's just
software on a PC, darn it. The amount of data is so small you could
do this on the computer the average junior high kid threw away last
week.
--Traffic avoidance . . . not only could your little ground recorder
get the signal, by golly other planes could too. Be a nice cheap way
to have live traffic in the cockpit without the ADS-B expense,
complexity and hassle.
--No electrical system? Guys at my airport without starters and
alternators are still using a little 12v batt for a radio.
--This system is a bit similar to something commercial shipping has
started doing. It's a transponder system for shipping, but instead of
being assigned a different squawk every time they go out, the have a
permanently assigned squawk. N-number anyone?
--Change the freq so you don't need the Ham ticket.

This stuff breaks my heart. It would be so simple, so cheap, so
effective, it might actually save a life (over and above the poor
track record ELT's have) and it ain't never going to happen. No one
will make money off it so no one will advocate it. I have to go for a
walk to calm down.

Stay safe, folks.

Steve.

[Scott[_1_]]

I believe the new 406 MHz ELT's can be hooked to a GPS and transmit
lat/long when activated. Unfortunately, the ELT may not have activated.


wrote:
> Fossett had a typical ELT that apparently did not turn on or was out
> of range.
>
> I have a APRS tracker that continuously sends position/velocity info
> on the ham frequency. Worked very well so far and gives peace of mind
> to relatives - and useful to FAA on a flight plan. If Fosset had a
> continuous tracker, the job of finding him might have been a lot
> easier.
>
> You can build an APRS tracker for about $250. A basic ham license is
> easy to get.
>
> For more info http://www.abri.com/sq2000/GPStrack.html
> ------------------------------------------------
> SQ2000 canard, http://www.abri.com/sq2000/
>
> On Sep 4, 2:13 pm, "Rob Turk" > wrote:
>
>>CNN reports Steve Fossett is missing.
>>"
>>Fossett took off from a private air strip known as Flying M Ranch, near
>>Smith Valley, 30 miles south of Yerington, Nevada, on Monday, with enough
>>fuel for four to five hours of flight, according to the Civil Air Patrol.
>>Yerington is south of Carson City, near the California border."
>>
>>Let's hope for the best
>
>
>

--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

[[email protected]]

Fairly simple. The (2m) tracking unit has a small gps that feeds
digital signals to the attached transmitter. The signals include
latitude, longitude, speed, altitude, direction and are picked up by a
host of volunteer ham towers - digital repeaters and/or iGates. That
info is transferred to internet servers and you can easily see the
results on a Google (or other type) map on places like www.findu.com -
simplicity itself for users. I suggest that you pay another $15/yr for
a private website YourPlaneName.com where your relatives or FAA can go
to find the latest tracking.

A lot of automobile users use the system so their wives can tell where
they are (hmm?) . But their signals are often blocked by terrain. The
best performance is from aircraft - any ham digi or igate tower within
couple of hundred miles can see the signal. I have flown cross country
- remote areas - and there is rarely a break in 1 or 2 minute
reporting intervals.

Are you still gawking around. Memorize answers to some 100 ham
questions, pay the $20? fee and get a APRS tracker. It may save your
life.

On Sep 5, 11:32 pm, "Montblack" <Y4_NOT!...
> wrote:
> Interesting...
>
> Bring a Pilot to School Day:
>
> Can you explain how this works, like we're a class of 8th graders? We'll,
> 7th graders, really. See, 8th grade just started, but we're still reviewing
> from last year...
>
> Paul-Mont

[Bill Daniels]

This is seriously cool stuff.

Please post this to rec.aviation.soaring. We need this in a big way.

Bill Daniels

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Fossett had a typical ELT that apparently did not turn on or was out
> of range.
>
> I have a APRS tracker that continuously sends position/velocity info
> on the ham frequency. Worked very well so far and gives peace of mind
> to relatives - and useful to FAA on a flight plan. If Fosset had a
> continuous tracker, the job of finding him might have been a lot
> easier.
>
> You can build an APRS tracker for about $250. A basic ham license is
> easy to get.
>
> For more info http://www.abri.com/sq2000/GPStrack.html
> ------------------------------------------------
> SQ2000 canard, http://www.abri.com/sq2000/
>
> On Sep 4, 2:13 pm, "Rob Turk" > wrote:
>> CNN reports Steve Fossett is missing.
>> "
>> Fossett took off from a private air strip known as Flying M Ranch, near
>> Smith Valley, 30 miles south of Yerington, Nevada, on Monday, with enough
>> fuel for four to five hours of flight, according to the Civil Air Patrol.
>> Yerington is south of Carson City, near the California border."
>>
>> Let's hope for the best
>
>

[Frank Stutzman[_2_]]

Scott > wrote:
> I believe the new 406 MHz ELT's can be hooked to a GPS and transmit
> lat/long when activated. Unfortunately, the ELT may not have activated.

There is also at least one 406 MHz ELT on the market that has a integral
GPS. www.acrelectonics.com is the one maker I know of, there may be
others.


I admire the poster who created his own flight tracking system. However,
I am inclined to go with one of these GPS enabled 406 PLBs. They are
lighter, less than 1 AMU in costs and are made by made by people who
know which end of the soldering iron to hold (unlike myself).


--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID

[Wayne Paul]

Bill,

Didn't use this technology at an Ephrata soaring contest few years ago? I
seem to remember an article in Soaring (or the SGC Towline news letter.)

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/
Ham Radio - W7ADK


"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..
> This is seriously cool stuff.
>
> Please post this to rec.aviation.soaring. We need this in a big way.
>
> Bill Daniels
>
> > wrote in message
> oups.com...
>> Fossett had a typical ELT that apparently did not turn on or was out
>> of range.
>>
>> I have a APRS tracker that continuously sends position/velocity info
>> on the ham frequency. Worked very well so far and gives peace of mind
>> to relatives - and useful to FAA on a flight plan. If Fosset had a
>> continuous tracker, the job of finding him might have been a lot
>> easier.
>>
>> You can build an APRS tracker for about $250. A basic ham license is
>> easy to get.
>>
>> For more info http://www.abri.com/sq2000/GPStrack.html
>> ------------------------------------------------
>> SQ2000 canard, http://www.abri.com/sq2000/
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2:13 pm, "Rob Turk" > wrote:
>>> CNN reports Steve Fossett is missing.
>>> "
>>> Fossett took off from a private air strip known as Flying M Ranch, near
>>> Smith Valley, 30 miles south of Yerington, Nevada, on Monday, with
>>> enough
>>> fuel for four to five hours of flight, according to the Civil Air
>>> Patrol.
>>> Yerington is south of Carson City, near the California border."
>>>
>>> Let's hope for the best
>>
>>
>
>

[Bill Daniels]

"Frank Stutzman" > wrote in message
...
> Scott > wrote:
>> I believe the new 406 MHz ELT's can be hooked to a GPS and transmit
>> lat/long when activated. Unfortunately, the ELT may not have activated.
>
> There is also at least one 406 MHz ELT on the market that has a integral
> GPS. www.acrelectonics.com is the one maker I know of, there may be
> others.
>
>
> I admire the poster who created his own flight tracking system. However,
> I am inclined to go with one of these GPS enabled 406 PLBs. They are
> lighter, less than 1 AMU in costs and are made by made by people who
> know which end of the soldering iron to hold (unlike myself).
>
>
> --
> Frank Stutzman
> Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
> Boise, ID
>

The 406Mhz ELT/PLB units are great and I suggest anyone traveling or flying
backcountry areas should have one. HOWEVER, if you activate it, be prepared
for the official full emergency response which may be quite a bit more than
you need - or want. Plus, as the the present unfortunate case, they
sometimes don't work.

Real-time tracking units offers the ability to track an aircraft right up to
a crash. Even if nothing in the aircraft works afterwards, you would still
know where to look for it.

Ultimately, real-time tracking will be the standard. ADS-B or whatever
replaces it will eliminate the need for ELT's as well as radar.

Bill Daniels

[[email protected]]

> Can you explain how this works, like we're a class of 8th graders? We'll,
> 7th graders, really. See, 8th grade just started, but we're still reviewing
> from last year...
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ummm, okay. Let's start by taking apart a GPS unit. Get rid of the
display, keyboard and housing, the guts boil down to a circuit board
about the size of a business card. You still need the antenna and a
source of power but the heart of the GPS unit is that single circuit
board, which has been available as new-surplus for at least ten years.

Whenever there's power to the circuit board -- and the antenna can see
the sky -- the circuit board spits out a constant stream of data. The
data would normally go to the GPS units display.

What hams have done is to make an equally small circuit board that
takes that stream of data, encodes it in a usable format and feeds it
to a ham radio -- typically a 'walkie-talkie' that uses the 2-meter
ham band. The ham radio broadcasts the data in short bursts for all
to hear. We call it our 'Automatic Position Reporting System' and it
has proven very useful in keeping track of things. (Indeed, a few
years ago I posted a message here suggesting it be used to keep track
of friends at Oshkosh, since the unit is small enough to put in your
pocket.)

On the ground, hams have covered the nation with receiving stations
tuned to the frequency used for automatic position reporting. Connect
a computer to a suitable radio, load the free software, and you can
track your friends -- or your cars, airplanes or whatever -- on a
nifty moving map display. It doesn't have to be a big computer --
there's software available for those palm-sized units.

'Tiny Trak' is one such unit and there's a Google group devoted to
automatic position reporting.

-R.S.Hoover
-(KA6HZF)

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Frank Stutzman wrote:
> Scott > wrote:
>> I believe the new 406 MHz ELT's can be hooked to a GPS and transmit
>> lat/long when activated. Unfortunately, the ELT may not have
>> activated.
>
> There is also at least one 406 MHz ELT on the market that has a
> integral GPS. www.acrelectonics.com is the one maker I know of,
> there may be others.
>
>
> I admire the poster who created his own flight tracking system.
> However, I am inclined to go with one of these GPS enabled 406 PLBs.
> They are lighter, less than 1 AMU in costs and are made by made by
> people who know which end of the soldering iron to hold (unlike
> myself).

Add to that the fact that the NTSB is suggesting to the FAA that 406 MHz
ELTs be required.

http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/NTSB_WantsBetterELTs_196080-1.html

[[email protected]]

Basically the APRS tracker is a small gps receiver / 2M ham
transmitter which sends digital position signals to nearby digital ham
station, which in turn send the info to internet servers and you can
see your last reported position on google (or other) maps on sites
like www.findu.com. It is simplicity itself for end user.

I also suggest you invest $15/yr in a MyPlanexxx.com website where
your relatives (and FAA) could easily click to link to findu.com with
google map to see your location.

If some of you want the finished product I am willing to put it
together for you - you pay for expenses and labor - see
http://www.abri.com/sq2000/GPStrack.html
But you still need a ham license, which is easy to get.

APRS is superior to 406 unit since it is real time and does not depend
on "going off" in a crash.

On Sep 5, 11:32 pm, "Montblack" <Y4_NOT!...
> wrote:
> wrote)
>
> > You can build an APRS tracker for about $250. A basic ham license is easy
> > to get.
>
> > For more infohttp://www.abri.com/sq2000/GPStrack.html
>
> http://www.abri.com/sq2000/APRSBasics.txt
> Interesting...
>
> Bring a Pilot to School Day:
>
> Can you explain how this works, like we're a class of 8th graders? We'll,
> 7th graders, really. See, 8th grade just started, but we're still reviewing
> from last year...
>
> Paul-Mont

[El Maximo]

"Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote in message
. ..


> Ultimately, real-time tracking will be the standard. ADS-B or whatever
> replaces it will eliminate the need for ELT's as well as radar.
>
> Bill Daniels

I don't think it can eliminate radar. How do you know where I am when my
ADS-B dies?

[Dave S]

wrote:

> APRS is superior to 406 unit since it is real time and does not depend
> on "going off" in a crash.
>

BUT.. in the way you propose to use, APRS involves you being recognized
as overdue by someone, and them initiating the search by reporting an
overdue aircraft and giving the last known coords.

Or do you think that filing a VFR flight plan with your own personal
findu.com emulation page address would suffice?

An impact activated ELT at least lets SOMEONE know you are down.
Particularly a 406 mhz one, since it broadcasts last known position as
part of its data burst.


I've not used APRS in the air, but I do realize its fairly easy to rig
up with a little handheld portable and tinytrack three, and the setup
can take a data feed from ANY NMEA gps, such as any of the portable
Garmins (aviation or not). On the ground, I use a APRS ready Mobile with
a GPS3 feeding it.


Dave

[[email protected]]

On Sep 6, 2:05 pm, Dave S > wrote:
> wrote:
> > APRS is superior to 406 unit since it is real time and does not depend
> > on "going off" in a crash.
>
> BUT.. in the way you propose to use, APRS involves you being recognized
> as overdue by someone, and them initiating the search by reporting an
> overdue aircraft and giving the last known coords.
>

True, but it is typically a long time before S&R gets into action
anyway - and after FAA verifies that the signal is not an accident in
itself. My relatives watch my flight movements and would be anxious to
get into action if I did not report at end of the leg.

[J. Severyn]

Thanks!!!! This APRS system is outta-sight. As a retired EE, I've toyed
with getting a ham ticket since I was a kid...and this might just do it.
This has wide coverage....and does not depend on a G-switch like an
ELT.....even the new 406MHz units depend on a G-switch to trip if the victim
cannot trigger the unit manually.

I like the continual tracking feature.....just look where the signal
stopped.

I've spent some time in the past half-hour and understand the electronics.
But has someone put together a small transmitter with an embedded GPS, to
make the whole unit a "one box" solution? I have no problem building a APRS
transmitter myself, but it seems a single small package has a better chance
of always being in the plane, say mounted on a door post or under a glass
turtledeck. Maybe with a rechargable battery, external power plug (to keep
it charged from the ship's power).

OK..... tell me more. What class ham license do I need?

John Severyn
KLVK Livermore, Ca.


> wrote in message
ups.com...
> Fairly simple. The (2m) tracking unit has a small gps that feeds
> digital signals to the attached transmitter. The signals include
> latitude, longitude, speed, altitude, direction and are picked up by a
> host of volunteer ham towers - digital repeaters and/or iGates. That
> info is transferred to internet servers and you can easily see the
> results on a Google (or other type) map on places like www.findu.com -
> simplicity itself for users. I suggest that you pay another $15/yr for
> a private website YourPlaneName.com where your relatives or FAA can go
> to find the latest tracking.
>
> A lot of automobile users use the system so their wives can tell where
> they are (hmm?) . But their signals are often blocked by terrain. The
> best performance is from aircraft - any ham digi or igate tower within
> couple of hundred miles can see the signal. I have flown cross country
> - remote areas - and there is rarely a break in 1 or 2 minute
> reporting intervals.
>
> Are you still gawking around. Memorize answers to some 100 ham
> questions, pay the $20? fee and get a APRS tracker. It may save your
> life.
>

[Ken Finney]

"J. Severyn" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks!!!! This APRS system is outta-sight. As a retired EE, I've toyed
> with getting a ham ticket since I was a kid...and this might just do it.
> This has wide coverage....and does not depend on a G-switch like an
> ELT.....even the new 406MHz units depend on a G-switch to trip if the
> victim cannot trigger the unit manually.
>
> I like the continual tracking feature.....just look where the signal
> stopped.
>
> I've spent some time in the past half-hour and understand the electronics.
> But has someone put together a small transmitter with an embedded GPS, to
> make the whole unit a "one box" solution? I have no problem building a
> APRS transmitter myself, but it seems a single small package has a better
> chance of always being in the plane, say mounted on a door post or under a
> glass turtledeck. Maybe with a rechargable battery, external power plug
> (to keep it charged from the ship's power).
>
> OK..... tell me more. What class ham license do I need?
>
> John Severyn
> KLVK Livermore, Ca.
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>> Fairly simple. The (2m) tracking unit has a small gps that feeds
>> digital signals to the attached transmitter. The signals include
>> latitude, longitude, speed, altitude, direction and are picked up by a
>> host of volunteer ham towers - digital repeaters and/or iGates. That
>> info is transferred to internet servers and you can easily see the
>> results on a Google (or other type) map on places like www.findu.com -
>> simplicity itself for users. I suggest that you pay another $15/yr for
>> a private website YourPlaneName.com where your relatives or FAA can go
>> to find the latest tracking.
>>
>> A lot of automobile users use the system so their wives can tell where
>> they are (hmm?) . But their signals are often blocked by terrain. The
>> best performance is from aircraft - any ham digi or igate tower within
>> couple of hundred miles can see the signal. I have flown cross country
>> - remote areas - and there is rarely a break in 1 or 2 minute
>> reporting intervals.
>>
>> Are you still gawking around. Memorize answers to some 100 ham
>> questions, pay the $20? fee and get a APRS tracker. It may save your
>> life.
>>
>
>


Check out these folks:
http://www.byonics.com/

In particular:
http://www.byonics.com/microtrak/mt8000.php

You only need the Technician license. Details at www.arrl.org
Lots of study guides are available on-line.

[ULWA]

Maybe.. maybe not...
Lets see, been 4 days, No plane radio, no ELT, no Cell phone, no Personal
tracker.
The chances of having so many com avenues fail without injury sure worry's
one.
I personally think of 2 guestamated probabilities.
Either he chose to disappear or he went into the water.
Seen as I'm sure he had lots of adrenaline yet to be tapped for future
records.
Hmmm,
I sure wish him well and a speedy recovery with condolences to his family.






> wrote in message
oups.com...
> Fossett had a typical ELT that apparently did not turn on or was out
> of range.
>
> I have a APRS tracker that continuously sends position/velocity info
> on the ham frequency. Worked very well so far and gives peace of mind
> to relatives - and useful to FAA on a flight plan. If Fosset had a
> continuous tracker, the job of finding him might have been a lot
> easier.
>
> You can build an APRS tracker for about $250. A basic ham license is
> easy to get.
>
> For more info http://www.abri.com/sq2000/GPStrack.html
> ------------------------------------------------
> SQ2000 canard, http://www.abri.com/sq2000/
>
> On Sep 4, 2:13 pm, "Rob Turk" > wrote:
>> CNN reports Steve Fossett is missing.
>> "
>> Fossett took off from a private air strip known as Flying M Ranch, near
>> Smith Valley, 30 miles south of Yerington, Nevada, on Monday, with enough
>> fuel for four to five hours of flight, according to the Civil Air Patrol.
>> Yerington is south of Carson City, near the California border."
>>
>> Let's hope for the best
>
>

[Dave S]

..
>
> OK..... tell me more. What class ham license do I need?
>
> John Severyn
> KLVK Livermore, Ca.
>

Just a technician license, which is entry level. (novice no longer
exists for new licenses). If you are knowledgeable about radio
communications you could even possibly pass the test cold turkey. But
there are enough specific knowledge items there that most of the time
you will need to study a bit to pass.

Morse Code is no longer required to obtain a Tech license

Lets not kid ourselves here. What we are essentially doing is using APRS
as an equivalent to "flight following" in the commercial (as opposed to
ATC sense). Another party is able to track your progress and if you are
overdue, able to use your last known position as the starting point to
initiate a search or report you missing.

APRS (automated packet/position reporting system) is nice for this
purpose, and when the digipeaters are networked onto the net, the data
is accessible to all. for free.

Its not perfect. There IS a limit to the amount of traffic it can carry,
and these limits are reached quite often because of the way individuals
configure their own APRS beacons. This results in lost data and less
than continuous tracking. Its not perfect. As few as 100 users in a
region can saturate the system. The issue is a result of indiscriminate
"repeating" of messages 2 or 3 or more times when one will suffice.
There is no regulatory guidance on this issue, so you are at the mercy
of your peers. BUT.. even if only one out of every 3-4 burst goes
through, thats better than nothing, with regards to a starting point.

If you are flying in a straight line, its pretty easy to look at the
track and know where to look for someone.

One limiting factor is that there is usually but ONE frequency available
for APRS use, and if I am not mistaken this is not necessarily uniform
across the country. So you have to know, and keep up with any frequency
changes in order to enable this flight following.

I'm new to HAM radio.. got my ticket this spring, and obtained it for
one purpose - to be in communication as a motorcycle marshal escort for
charity bike rides. Our rides go into the country, cell phones are
spotty, but Amatuer bands enable communications continuity, and dont
need to rent public safety/business band radios. APRS allows us to track
key vehicles and marshals. I dont rag chew. I dont do any of the field
days. Dont belong to the ham club. I do HAM on the motorcycle during
rides only.

If your radio is not APRS-ready out of the box (look for the term TNC as
part of installed equipment), you will need an external TNC (terminal
node controller). Tiny Trak is about the size of a pager, and hugely
capable. Kingwood has 2 packet-ready (tnc installed radios), the TM-D700
which is a dash mount and there is a handheld that I believe is a TH-D7
or something like that. Give it an NMEA gps data stream and you are in
business.


Dave

[J. Severyn]

"Dave S" > wrote in message
...
> .
>>
>> OK..... tell me more. What class ham license do I need?
>>
>> John Severyn
>> KLVK Livermore, Ca.
>>
>
> Just a technician license, which is entry level. (novice no longer exists
> for new licenses). If you are knowledgeable about radio

snip>
>
> Dave

Thanks Dave. Great post! I understand completely. Now I have a very good
reason to get a ham ticket. A close friend has been bugging me for many
years to do just that. Of course he has been a ham for about 50 years (no
lie). The APRS system is very well thought out....and I realize that each
packet is not 100% reliable......but that is so much better than just an ELT
running off a G-switch. You guys are really doing a service by educating
us......and hopefully saving lives in the future.

Many Thanks!!
John Severyn

[Scott[_1_]]

One possible problem might be when flying in places like dry lake beds.
If you're flying at say 500 feet will there always be a ham within
range to get the aprs report? At 100 MPH you might cover a lot of
potential ground without an aprs report getting received by someone.
The satellite unit can see the vast majority of Earth's surface from
space. But, I agree, the satellite method relies on that little
G-Switch to indicate trouble...

Scott
N0EDV

wrote:
> Basically the APRS tracker is a small gps receiver / 2M ham
> transmitter which sends digital position signals to nearby digital ham
> station, which in turn send the info to internet servers and you can
> see your last reported position on google (or other) maps on sites
> like www.findu.com. It is simplicity itself for end user.
>
> I also suggest you invest $15/yr in a MyPlanexxx.com website where
> your relatives (and FAA) could easily click to link to findu.com with
> google map to see your location.
>
> If some of you want the finished product I am willing to put it
> together for you - you pay for expenses and labor - see
> http://www.abri.com/sq2000/GPStrack.html
> But you still need a ham license, which is easy to get.
>
> APRS is superior to 406 unit since it is real time and does not depend
> on "going off" in a crash.
>
> On Sep 5, 11:32 pm, "Montblack" <Y4_NOT!...
> > wrote:
>
wrote)
>>
>>
>>>You can build an APRS tracker for about $250. A basic ham license is easy
>>>to get.
>>
>>>For more infohttp://www.abri.com/sq2000/GPStrack.html
>>
>>http://www.abri.com/sq2000/APRSBasics.txt
>>Interesting...
>>
>>Bring a Pilot to School Day:
>>
>>Can you explain how this works, like we're a class of 8th graders? We'll,
>>7th graders, really. See, 8th grade just started, but we're still reviewing
>>from last year...
>>
>>Paul-Mont
>
>
>

--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

[Scott[_1_]]

Technician Class. Morse code tests are NOT required by any class any
more, so being you are an EE, I would try for the Extra Class so you
would have all available privileges. You may want to ultimately do more
than just aprs! :)

Scott
N0EDV

J. Severyn wrote:

> Thanks!!!! This APRS system is outta-sight. As a retired EE, I've toyed
> with getting a ham ticket since I was a kid...and this might just do it.
> This has wide coverage....and does not depend on a G-switch like an
> ELT.....even the new 406MHz units depend on a G-switch to trip if the victim
> cannot trigger the unit manually.
>
> I like the continual tracking feature.....just look where the signal
> stopped.
>
> I've spent some time in the past half-hour and understand the electronics.
> But has someone put together a small transmitter with an embedded GPS, to
> make the whole unit a "one box" solution? I have no problem building a APRS
> transmitter myself, but it seems a single small package has a better chance
> of always being in the plane, say mounted on a door post or under a glass
> turtledeck. Maybe with a rechargable battery, external power plug (to keep
> it charged from the ship's power).
>
> OK..... tell me more. What class ham license do I need?
>
> John Severyn
> KLVK Livermore, Ca.
>
>
> > wrote in message
> ups.com...
>
>>Fairly simple. The (2m) tracking unit has a small gps that feeds
>>digital signals to the attached transmitter. The signals include
>>latitude, longitude, speed, altitude, direction and are picked up by a
>>host of volunteer ham towers - digital repeaters and/or iGates. That
>>info is transferred to internet servers and you can easily see the
>>results on a Google (or other type) map on places like www.findu.com -
>>simplicity itself for users. I suggest that you pay another $15/yr for
>>a private website YourPlaneName.com where your relatives or FAA can go
>>to find the latest tracking.
>>
>>A lot of automobile users use the system so their wives can tell where
>>they are (hmm?) . But their signals are often blocked by terrain. The
>>best performance is from aircraft - any ham digi or igate tower within
>>couple of hundred miles can see the signal. I have flown cross country
>>- remote areas - and there is rarely a break in 1 or 2 minute
>>reporting intervals.
>>
>>Are you still gawking around. Memorize answers to some 100 ham
>>questions, pay the $20? fee and get a APRS tracker. It may save your
>>life.
>>
>
>
>

--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

[Al G[_1_]]

"Steve S." > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 5, 10:21 pm, wrote:
>>
>> I have a APRS tracker that continuously sends position/velocity info
>> on the ham frequency.
>
> This happens to be a topic near and dear to my uber-geeky heart. On
> the one hand we have ELTs, which *hopefully* kick off when a plane
> crashes. If it isn't damaged in the crash . . . if the batteries are
> still good . . . if the antenna leads stay attached . . . etc. On
> the other hand we have a system that is designed to tell you where the
> plane is at all times, and hey, if the guy doesn't come home--play
> back the recorded position data and go look in the area where the
> signal stopped.
>
> --Air-side cost . . . compared to an ELT, the things are quite
> reasonable. Compared to a 406 ELT, they're peanuts.
> --Ground-side cost . . . the ground side would need to get built--I
> would speculate that a receiver/recorder per ATC sector would do
> nicely. You could build the ground side for the entire nation for
> next to nothing (when measured by gov't standards). There are guys on
> this group, right now, that could design and deploy the whole ground
> side without even thinking hard.
> --Position data recording . . . compared to what a TIVO packs away,
> setting up a system to record, say, the last 72 hours worth of
> reported positions for airplanes in a given region is pretty darn
> approachable. Lat/Lon, speed & altitude. That is not a lot a data.
> Don't even record all of it, just record 5 minute intervals or
> similar. Get fancy and make the intervals speed-sensitive. It's just
> software on a PC, darn it. The amount of data is so small you could
> do this on the computer the average junior high kid threw away last
> week.
> --Traffic avoidance . . . not only could your little ground recorder
> get the signal, by golly other planes could too. Be a nice cheap way
> to have live traffic in the cockpit without the ADS-B expense,
> complexity and hassle.
> --No electrical system? Guys at my airport without starters and
> alternators are still using a little 12v batt for a radio.
> --This system is a bit similar to something commercial shipping has
> started doing. It's a transponder system for shipping, but instead of
> being assigned a different squawk every time they go out, the have a
> permanently assigned squawk. N-number anyone?
> --Change the freq so you don't need the Ham ticket.
>
> This stuff breaks my heart. It would be so simple, so cheap, so
> effective, it might actually save a life (over and above the poor
> track record ELT's have) and it ain't never going to happen. No one
> will make money off it so no one will advocate it. I have to go for a
> walk to calm down.
>
> Stay safe, folks.
>
> Steve.
>

And, it is a built in "Anti-theft" tracker. If your airplane gets
stolen, and the thief doesn't turn it off, you can probably find the
aircraft and thief.

Our flight school should have one to track students on x-c. I once had a
student who almost tried to cross the Big Lake in a 150, we never would've
found him.

Al G

[Dave S]

Al G wrote:

> And, it is a built in "Anti-theft" tracker. If your airplane gets
> stolen, and the thief doesn't turn it off, you can probably find the
> aircraft and thief.
>
> Our flight school should have one to track students on x-c. I once had a
> student who almost tried to cross the Big Lake in a 150, we never would've
> found him.
>
> Al G
>
>

Here's the catch. If the transmitter is operating, there needs to be a
licensed amatuer radio operator with direct control of it. By the rules,
cant just leave it transmitting blind unattended or attended by an
unlicensed operator.

Now.. there is NO reason something similar cant be devised on a business
or aviation frequency for a given local operator. You put a reciever on
top of a 1000 ft tall antenna somewhere and you will pick up airborne
traffic for hundreds of miles. Do the same in a few key cities and you
can blanket an entire area.

Dave

[Al G[_1_]]

"Dave S" > wrote in message
...
> Al G wrote:
>
>> And, it is a built in "Anti-theft" tracker. If your airplane gets
>> stolen, and the thief doesn't turn it off, you can probably find the
>> aircraft and thief.
>>
>> Our flight school should have one to track students on x-c. I once
>> had a student who almost tried to cross the Big Lake in a 150, we never
>> would've found him.
>>
>> Al G
>
> Here's the catch. If the transmitter is operating, there needs to be a
> licensed amatuer radio operator with direct control of it. By the rules,
> cant just leave it transmitting blind unattended or attended by an
> unlicensed operator.
>
> Now.. there is NO reason something similar cant be devised on a business
> or aviation frequency for a given local operator. You put a reciever on
> top of a 1000 ft tall antenna somewhere and you will pick up airborne
> traffic for hundreds of miles. Do the same in a few key cities and you
> can blanket an entire area.
>
> Dave

Oops, you're right. The neat deal here is that all of the antennas
already exist, in the Ham network. They are the ones providing a real
service.

Al G

[Bill Daniels]

"Al G" > wrote in message
...
>

>> Here's the catch. If the transmitter is operating, there needs to be a
>> licensed amatuer radio operator with direct control of it. By the rules,
>> cant just leave it transmitting blind unattended or attended by an
>> unlicensed operator.

Since the main benefit of APRS is to the pilot, it seems logical that the
small effort required to obtain the Technician's License is in order. I
just downloaded the exam study guide. Getting 26 out of 35 questions right
doesn't seem that hard.

I do have a question. In the APRS map displays I have looked at, the
symbols all contained the Ham license call sign. That's a little cryptic
for non-hams. Is there a way to display an "N" number or other identifier
instead?

Bill Daniels

[[email protected]]

Yes. Thats exactly what I do. For APRS you can use your tail number
(NXXXX) and place your HAM call sign at end of the digital signal to
satisfy FCC requirements. You can select an airplane symbol to show up
on the map.

On Sep 7, 3:11 pm, "Bill Daniels" <bildan@comcast-dot-net> wrote:
> I do have a question. In the APRS map displays I have looked at, the
> symbols all contained the Ham license call sign. That's a little cryptic
> for non-hams. Is there a way to display an "N" number or other identifier
> instead?
>
> Bill Daniels

[Philip Plane]

Of course, you can just use the existing satellite network to get
global coverage. Something like this:

http://www.daestra.com/overview.htm

Which uses the Satamatics SAT-201 terminal:

http://www.satamatics.com/

Sadly, you get to pay usage fees.

But notice you get to send messages. So you could have a 'panic' button
and a G switch.

--
Philip Plane _____
|
---------------( )---------------
Glider pilots have no visible means of support

[Dave S]

Bill Daniels wrote:

>
> I do have a question. In the APRS map displays I have looked at, the
> symbols all contained the Ham license call sign. That's a little cryptic
> for non-hams. Is there a way to display an "N" number or other identifier
> instead?
>
> Bill Daniels
>
>

Yes. The majority of folks use their ham call sign as the
"identifier".. but that is but part of the packet's message. You can use
whatever you want to be your screen-name/identifier.

The catch: you must identify your station using your licensed call sign
every 10 minutes or at the conclusion of your conversation.

When I do motorcycle escort, my identifier is MSMOT-# or whatever our
group decides. I beacon every 3 minutes. Every third beacon (9 mins) I
have a status message broadcast that includes my amatuer call sign. The
reason for the standardized call signs allows someone (our control
point) with a computer to filter out NON event traffic and watch only us.

This is peculiarity of my radio, which has the TNC/packet feature built
in. If you were to use TinyTrack, you could program all sorts of
variables, based on speed, course change, etc as to when your beacon
goes off. As long as your licensed call sign is in a message somewhere
every 10 mins, you are golden.