Columbia Seat Limitation

[Marco Leon]

http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/accident_incident/preliminary_data/media/B_0904_N.txt

Prayers go out to the family. Horrible, horrible accident.

As a family man, the incident caught my attention. Particularly the six
people in a Columbia part. Sadly, children were involved but with 4 adults
and 2 children (according to various sources), W&B was at best borderline.
Other forums have mentioned that there's a limit of 4 passengers in the
Columbia regardless of size. Is this true? Are the limitations
model-dependent or is it a FAR 23 thing? Seems to me that seat belt
requirements may drive some of this.

Marco

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

Marco Leon wrote:

>Other forums have mentioned that there's a limit of 4 passengers in the
>Columbia regardless of size. Is this true? Are the limitations
>model-dependent or is it a FAR 23 thing? Seems to me that seat belt
>requirements may drive some of this.
>

The Columbia has 4 seats and 4 seat belts. That would limit the number of
passengers over the age of 2 yrs. to 4. Children under 2 yrs. of age can
legally ride on the lap of a belted passenger. Conceivably, it would be
possible to have seven occupants in the cabin (as long as W&B allowed). 1
pilot and 3 adult passengers each with a lap child.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

[Gig 601XL Builder]

JGalban via AviationKB.com wrote:
> Marco Leon wrote:
>
>> Other forums have mentioned that there's a limit of 4 passengers in
>> the Columbia regardless of size. Is this true? Are the limitations
>> model-dependent or is it a FAR 23 thing? Seems to me that seat belt
>> requirements may drive some of this.
>>
>
> The Columbia has 4 seats and 4 seat belts. That would limit the
> number of passengers over the age of 2 yrs. to 4. Children under 2
> yrs. of age can legally ride on the lap of a belted passenger.
> Conceivably, it would be possible to have seven occupants in the
> cabin (as long as W&B allowed). 1 pilot and 3 adult passengers each
> with a lap child.
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)


Assuming the report below is correct about the ages of the children (I know
that a huge assumption) there was at least one violation, the 2 year old.
I'll bet they were outside the W&B and the first line of the story is right.


http://www.turnto23.com/news/14025214/detail.html

KERNVILLE, Calif. -- A private plane stalled and crashed near the Kern
Valley airport Friday with no survivors.

The Kern County Sheriff's department said there were 4 adults and 2 children
on board, including one infant. Adults killed were the pilot, Adam Pasori,
56 of Santa Monica, his wife Sibel, in her 30's, his brother, David Pasori,
in his early 40's, and sister Mila Kuygusuz, in her 40's, according to Sal
Yaman, Adam Pasori's nephew. Kuygusuz's two daughters, Meriem, 2, and
Nasrin, 5 months, were also killed.

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Marco Leon wrote:
> http://www.faa.gov/data_statistics/accident_incident/preliminary_data/media/B_0904_N.txt
>

And to add to the story ABC news asks the question...


"Is Overloading Private Aircraft A Growing Concern?"

http://www.turnto23.com/news/14028574/detail.html


Last line in the story..."An ABC reporter suggested the Friday night plane
crash was the most people killed in Kern County in one single incident since
the Brothers’ murder in 2003."

So now they are not only scare mongering they are quoting co-workers in the
newsroom.

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>
>"Is Overloading Private Aircraft A Growing Concern?"
>Last line in the story..."An ABC reporter suggested the Friday night plane
>crash was the most people killed in Kern County in one single incident since
>the Brothers’ murder in 2003."
>
>So now they are not only scare mongering they are quoting co-workers in the
>newsroom.
Jeez.. that was the worst peice of crap I've seen in a long time

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200709/1

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 5, 12:28 pm, "JGalban via AviationKB.com" <u32749@uwe> wrote:
> Marco Leon wrote:
> >Other forums have mentioned that there's a limit of 4 passengers in the
> >Columbia regardless of size. Is this true? Are the limitations
> >model-dependent or is it a FAR 23 thing? Seems to me that seat belt
> >requirements may drive some of this.
>
> The Columbia has 4 seats and 4 seat belts. That would limit the number of
> passengers over the age of 2 yrs. to 4. Children under 2 yrs. of age can
> legally ride on the lap of a belted passenger. Conceivably, it would be
> possible to have seven occupants in the cabin (as long as W&B allowed). 1
> pilot and 3 adult passengers each with a lap child.

There is no such limitation that I'm aware of. Many planes were
produced with just one seat belt across the entire back seat. I've
never seen anything that says that pax can't share a seatbelt.

[Ron Natalie]

Robert M. Gary wrote:

> There is no such limitation that I'm aware of.
>
You might wish to look at the type certificate. The one plane
I am familiar with a rear bench seat with the long belt still
lists the rear as "2 seats" and the certification of the aircraft
is explicitly for 4 occupants.

[Marco Leon]

"Kloudy via AviationKB.com" <u33403@uwe> wrote in message
news:77c77cb23ba3b@uwe...
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
>>
>>"Is Overloading Private Aircraft A Growing Concern?"
>>Last line in the story..."An ABC reporter suggested the Friday night plane
>>crash was the most people killed in Kern County in one single incident
>>since
>>the Brothers' murder in 2003."
>>
>>So now they are not only scare mongering they are quoting co-workers in
>>the
>>newsroom.
> Jeez.. that was the worst peice of crap I've seen in a long time

Man, these reporters are really living in their own world. They're really
reaching when they get their quotes from their own staff. It's about as
pompous as a news feature show with another newscaster as the featured guest
(I can't recall the guest but I've seen it).

Marco

[Robert M. Gary]

On Sep 6, 5:40 am, Ron Natalie > wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > There is no such limitation that I'm aware of.
>
> You might wish to look at the type certificate. The one plane
> I am familiar with a rear bench seat with the long belt still
> lists the rear as "2 seats" and the certification of the aircraft
> is explicitly for 4 occupants.


I'd like to take a look at that. Is the 4 occupants in the limitations
section?

-Robert

[Ron Natalie]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> On Sep 6, 5:40 am, Ron Natalie > wrote:
>> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>>> There is no such limitation that I'm aware of.
>> You might wish to look at the type certificate. The one plane
>> I am familiar with a rear bench seat with the long belt still
>> lists the rear as "2 seats" and the certification of the aircraft
>> is explicitly for 4 occupants.
>
>
> I'd like to take a look at that. Is the 4 occupants in the limitations
> section?
>
Look up the 182 type certificate. It's right there in the description
of the aircraft immediately before "UTILITY" or "NORMAL" category.