How to search on the Internet for Steve Fossett's Citabria taildragger

[miket6065]

0. Install Google Earth freeware on your PC:
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/Home-Education/Google-Earth.shtml

1. Download the map update recently taken of the search area this week
http://s3.amazonaws.com/fossett/geoeye-color.kml

2. Start Google Earth and Load the new GeoEye maps into Google Earth.
File -> Open -> geoeye-color.kml

3. When you zoom in to about 150 miles above the California Nevada border,
you can see the newly added GeoEye color maps will be a greener (summer)
color than the older maps. This is the search area. It's huge.

4. You can zoom down to the 12,000 foot level (or whatever) and search the
area for the blue Citabria taildragger. You can find a picture of the actual plane here
http://www.stevefossett.com

5. In addition, you can get a search area assigned to you on Amazon's
Mechanical Turk by going here
http://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview?groupId=9TSZK4G35XEZJZG21T60&kw=Flash

7. Then press the "Accept Hit" button and log in.

8. Then press on the link "To help in the search for Steve Fossett, please
click here" and then press on the link "Work on HITs", whatever a "hit" is.

9. What this does is gives you a zoomed-in view of YOUR SEARCH AREA (they
give a search area to each person). If you see his plane, then you tell
them on that web page.

10. If you want, they also give you coordinates such as
"38.117852,-119.279851" which you can then go back and paste into the
Google Earth tool to look at the same location and zoom around using the
Google Earth software.

Hope you find something interesting!

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 GMT, miket6065 >
wrote in >:

>. In addition, you can get a search area assigned to you on Amazon's
>Mechanical Turk by going here
>http://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview?groupId=9TSZK4G35XEZJZG21T60&kw=Flash
>
>7. Then press the "Accept Hit" button and log in.
>

Even though you may already have an Amazon account, you will have to
agree to:

Amazon Mechanical Turk Participation Agreement
Last updated: March 1, 2006
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>8. Then press on the link "To help in the search for Steve Fossett, please
>click here" and then press on the link "Work on HITs", whatever a "hit" is.

[miket6065]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:12:34 -0500, Ron May wrote:

> Unless the process described here is somehow different from the
> "normal" Google Earth, the locations are not shown in "real time." I
> know for a fact that some location shots are several years old. How
> does that help locate a recently downed flyer?

The process IS DIFFERENT!

Google paid for updated maps (which anyone can pay for). They will update
the maps AGAIN on Saturday. That's why you MUST load the kml file. That
kml file is the updated maps.

Otherwise, if you do not load the kml file, then you are correct.

Does anyone know the address or coordinates of the airfield that Steve
Fossett took off from?

[miket6065]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:14:11 +0000, Larry Dighera wrote:

> Even though you may already have an Amazon account, you will have to
> agree to:

Yuck. You can just make up all the data.
There is freeware on the net which gives you reliable made-up data, e.g.,
it gives an address, phone number, and zip code that is "legit" (albeit
not true).

Does anyone know the name of that freeware?

[miket6065]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:55:25 -0400, Some Other Guy wrote:

> According to www.stevefossett.com:
>
> The aircraft's last confirmed position on Monday (3 September) at
> approximately 10:30 A.M. local time showed Steve west of Powell Canyon
> (south of Walker Lake and southwest of Hawthorne), proceeding east
> towards the canyon.
>
> The geoeye-color.kml doesn't cover any of this area...

I have no explanation.
All the information I've read is from Amazon Turk and from the STeve
Fossett web site.

ANyone else have any answer to this enigma?

BTW, does anyone know the GPS coordinates of the AIRFIELD where Steve
Fossett took off from. If he is to be found, we'd need to START at that
airfield and then do successive radius loops around from there.

Where did he take off from? Yes, I know it's a ranch owned by Hilton, but,
do we have coordinates or a google-able address?

[meerkat]

"miket6065" > wrote in message
et...
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:55:25 -0400, Some Other Guy wrote:
>
>> According to www.stevefossett.com:
>>
>> The aircraft's last confirmed position on Monday (3 September) at
>> approximately 10:30 A.M. local time showed Steve west of Powell
>> Canyon
>> (south of Walker Lake and southwest of Hawthorne), proceeding
>> east
>> towards the canyon.
>>
>> The geoeye-color.kml doesn't cover any of this area...
>
> I have no explanation.
> All the information I've read is from Amazon Turk and from the STeve
> Fossett web site.
>
> ANyone else have any answer to this enigma?
>
> BTW, does anyone know the GPS coordinates of the AIRFIELD where Steve
> Fossett took off from. If he is to be found, we'd need to START at that
> airfield and then do successive radius loops around from there.
>
> Where did he take off from? Yes, I know it's a ranch owned by Hilton, but,
> do we have coordinates or a google-able address?
>
Here you are Mike.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/09/10/fossett_search_continues/

[Rolf Blom]

On 2007-09-12 17:27, miket6065 wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:55:25 -0400, Some Other Guy wrote:
>
>> According to www.stevefossett.com:
>>
>> The aircraft's last confirmed position on Monday (3 September) at
>> approximately 10:30 A.M. local time showed Steve west of Powell Canyon
>> (south of Walker Lake and southwest of Hawthorne), proceeding east
>> towards the canyon.
>>
>> The geoeye-color.kml doesn't cover any of this area...
>
> I have no explanation.
> All the information I've read is from Amazon Turk and from the STeve
> Fossett web site.
>
> ANyone else have any answer to this enigma?
>
> BTW, does anyone know the GPS coordinates of the AIRFIELD where Steve
> Fossett took off from. If he is to be found, we'd need to START at that
> airfield and then do successive radius loops around from there.
>
> Where did he take off from? Yes, I know it's a ranch owned by Hilton, but,
> do we have coordinates or a google-able address?
>


Fly M Ranch (7TA7) is listed in FAA 5010 and here:
http://www.airfieldsdatabase.com/Texas%20R6%20R.htm

LAT 31-50-23 (31.8398944)
LONG 94-57-40 (94.9613278)

[Jkgoblue]

On Sep 12, 11:22 am, miket6065 > wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:12:34 -0500, Ron May wrote:
> > Unless the process described here is somehow different from the
> > "normal" Google Earth, the locations are not shown in "real time." I
> > know for a fact that some location shots are several years old. How
> > does that help locate a recently downed flyer?
>
> The process IS DIFFERENT!
>
> Google paid for updated maps (which anyone can pay for). They will update
> the maps AGAIN on Saturday. That's why you MUST load the kml file. That
> kml file is the updated maps.
>
> Otherwise, if you do not load the kml file, then you are correct.
>
> Does anyone know the address or coordinates of the airfield that Steve
> Fossett took off from?

Here is the airfield

N 38°36'39.4884" W 119°00'06.9552"

[Ed]

38.603611°, -119.003056°

miket6065 wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 08:55:25 -0400, Some Other Guy wrote:
>
>> According to www.stevefossett.com:
>>
>> The aircraft's last confirmed position on Monday (3 September) at
>> approximately 10:30 A.M. local time showed Steve west of Powell Canyon
>> (south of Walker Lake and southwest of Hawthorne), proceeding east
>> towards the canyon.
>>
>> The geoeye-color.kml doesn't cover any of this area...
>
> I have no explanation.
> All the information I've read is from Amazon Turk and from the STeve
> Fossett web site.
>
> ANyone else have any answer to this enigma?
>
> BTW, does anyone know the GPS coordinates of the AIRFIELD where Steve
> Fossett took off from. If he is to be found, we'd need to START at that
> airfield and then do successive radius loops around from there.
>
> Where did he take off from? Yes, I know it's a ranch owned by Hilton, but,
> do we have coordinates or a google-able address?
>

[Dominic Sexton]

In article >, miket6065
> writes
>Does anyone know the address or coordinates of the airfield that Steve
>Fossett took off from?

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&ll=38.618111,-119.000258

--

Dominic Sexton

[[email protected]]

In sci.geo.satellite-nav Rolf Blom > wrote:
> http://www.airfieldsdatabase.com/ ... Texas ...

> LAT 31-50-23 (31.8398944) > LONG 94-57-40 (94.9613278)

That would be in the wrong state.

A Google Earth Search for "Barron Hilton's Flying M Ranch"
gives me a placemark at 38.608,-119.002 for the airstrip.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

[Rolf Blom]

On 2007-09-12 18:08, wrote:
> In sci.geo.satellite-nav Rolf Blom > wrote:
>> http://www.airfieldsdatabase.com/ ... Texas ...
>
>> LAT 31-50-23 (31.8398944) > LONG 94-57-40 (94.9613278)
>
> That would be in the wrong state.
>
> A Google Earth Search for "Barron Hilton's Flying M Ranch"
> gives me a placemark at 38.608,-119.002 for the airstrip.
>

Yup, you are correct; it had a Texan namesake, sorry.

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:38:51 +0200, Rolf Blom >
wrote in >:

>
>> Where did he take off from? Yes, I know it's a ranch owned by Hilton, but,
>> do we have coordinates or a google-able address?
>>
>
>
>Fly M Ranch (7TA7) is listed in FAA 5010 and here:
>http://www.airfieldsdatabase.com/Texas%20R6%20R.htm
>
>LAT 31-50-23 (31.8398944)
>LONG 94-57-40 (94.9613278)

Nice try:

http://www.airnav.com/airport/7TA7
7TA7 Flying M Ranch Airport
Reklaw, Texas, USA

FAA INFORMATION EFFECTIVE 30 AUGUST 2007
Location
FAA Identifier: 7TA7
Lat/Long: 31-50-23.6200N / 094-57-40.7800W
31-50.393667N / 094-57.679667W
31.8398944 / -94.9613278
(estimated)
Elevation: 310 ft. / 94 m (estimated)
Variation: 05E (1985)
From city: 2 miles SE of REKLAW, TX
Time zone: UTC -5 (UTC -6 during Standard Time)
Zip code: 75784


Perhaps this location is at least in Nevada:

Adventurer Steve Fossett missing At 8:45 am, on Monday, September
3, 2007, Fossett took off in a single-engine plane from a private
airstrip known as Flying-M Ranch ( 38°36'13?N, 119°00'11?W *),
near Smith Valley, 30 miles south of Yerington, Nevada, near
Carson City and the California border. The airfield is owned by
Barron Hilton[12] and is the site of the biennial Barron Hilton
Cup invitational soaring encampment. Fossett was searching for a
suitable lake bed for a world land speed record attempt.[13]
* http://tinyurl.com/2n82vc


http://www.airnav.com/airport/NV54
NV54 Flying S Ranch Ultralight Flightpark
Pahrump, Nevada, USA

FAA INFORMATION EFFECTIVE 30 AUGUST 2007
Location
FAA Identifier: NV54
Lat/Long: 36-18-25.2600N / 115-59-20.0400W
36-18.421000N / 115-59.334000W
36.3070167 / -115.9889000
(estimated)
Elevation: 2800 ft. / 853 m (estimated)
Variation: 14E (1995)
From city: 7 miles SW of PAHRUMP, NV
Time zone: UTC -7 (UTC -8 during Standard Time)
Zip code: 89048

Ultralight Flight Park Operations
Ultralight Flight Park use: Private use.
Permission required prior to landing
Activation date: 06/2000
Sectional chart: LAS VEGAS
Control tower: no
ARTCC: LOS ANGELES CENTER
FSS: RENO FLIGHT SERVICE STATION
Attendance: UNATNDD
Wind indicator: yes
Segmented circle: no

Ultralight Flight Park Communications
WX ASOS at DRA (19 nm N): 119.675 (702-295-7278)

Nearby radio navigation aids
NDB name Hdg/Dist Freq Var ID
MERCURY 158/19.3 326 16E MCY -- -.-. -.--

Ultralight Flight Park Services

Runway Information
Helipad H1
Dimensions: 40 x 30 ft. / 12 x 9 m
Surface: concrete
Traffic pattern: left left

Runway 5/23
Dimensions: 800 x 25 ft. / 244 x 8 m
Surface: gravel
RUNWAY 5 RUNWAY 23
Traffic pattern: left left

Ultralight Flight Park Ownership and Management from official FAA
records
Ownership: Privately-owned
Owner: VIC SPANKOWSKI
1451 E FORT CHURCHILL RD.
PAHRUMP, NV 89048
Phone 775-764-2334
Manager: VIC SPANKOWSKI
1451 E FORT CHURCHILL RD.
PAHRUMP, NV 89048
Phone 775-764-2334

Ultralight Flight Park Operational Statistics
Aircraft based on the field: 3
Single engine airplanes: 1
Helicopters: 1
Ultralights: 1


Instrument Procedures
There are no published instrument procedures at NV54.
Some nearby airports with instrument procedures:

KVGT - North Las Vegas Airport (39 nm E)
KLAS - Mc Carran International Airport (43 nm E)
KHND - Henderson Executive Airport (46 nm SE)
KLSV - Nellis Air Force Base (46 nm E)
61B - Boulder City Municipal Airport (59 nm E)



You can tour the brothels in Pahrump if you like:
http://www.lasvegaslove.net/limos/lpackages/broth.htm

http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/archives/1999/sep/05/509266653.html
September 05, 1999

Pahrump growth endangers brothels
Church opposition

En route to the Chicken Ranch or Sheri's Ranch at the end of Homestead
Road in Pahrump, travelers in Town Cars and taxicabs pass a 20-foot
white cross and the sign for Living Waters Bible Church.

The church -- a double-wide trailer with neat trim and pale yellow
doors set well off the road -- is run by the Rev. Keith Lyons, a
seven-year resident of Pahrump.

"I live right down the street from the brothels -- less than 2 miles
-- but I don't have anything to do with them," said Lyons, who was
once a part of an ill-fated effort to close the brothels down.

"I wish they weren't there, but it's none of my business now. I just
see the limos going up and down the street, creating traffic.

"I got into opposing them a few years back because I do believe
prostitution is a problem -- the Bible condemns sexual sins.
Eventually, sexual sins will cause the downfall of our nation.

"But I do not preach specifically against the brothels because they
are a legal entity in Nevada. (The brothels) really don't rock the
boat, and that's the end of it."

The church-going community has led several anti-sex industry movements
in Pahrump. Most recently a group has begun protesting billboards and
signs that advertise massage parlors and a new topless bar. It is
illegal in the state to advertise prostitution.

The bar owners painted a picture on the side of their building --
which is across from an elementary school -- of a cowgirl who was
clothed only from the waist down and had her arms folded across her
chest.

"People were upset," said Bishop. "So apparently the bar owners are
going to paint over it because they want to get along with the
community."

But the billboards advertising Madame Butterfly's massage parlor and
the Brothel Art Museum in Crystal are still up. Madame Butterfly's is
owned by Pahrump Valley Gazette publisher Joe Richards and stands next
to a brothel -- Cherry Patch Ranch -- also owned by Richards. "We
counteracted. We got our own Jesus billboard," said Sandy Gleason, an
employee at Crowns Christian Bible Books and Gifts store in Pahrump.
The church community pooled its funds and rented billboard space for a
"Jesus is truth" message about three months ago.

Battles between church communities and the sex industry are brewing
statewide. Reno Southern Baptist activist Barbara Jones has been
speaking at public hearings in favor of outlawing prostitution in
northern counties, and is trying to create an organization to formally
oppose brothels.

"I oppose it on two levels -- spiritually and practically. It's
against Scripture, and it's detrimental to those who participate in
it," Jones said.

"It's time for Nevada to change its image. I grew up here, and just
like everybody else I bought into the idea that it was just a fact of
life because it's been a part of the state since the old days. But I
got much wiser about it.

Battles in Southern Nevada between anti-brothel churches and brothel
owners such as Joe Richards are not new.

In the early 1990s a Southern Baptist minister led an effort to make
prostitution illegal in the Pahrump area and was challenged by
Richards' editorial firepower.

"Back then there was talk of putting another brothel in Amargosa
Valley to accommodate airport clientele," the Rev. Ron Trummell of
First Southern Baptist Church in Pahrump said. "The plan was aimed at
Japanese businessmen who would fly in and get serviced and leave, and
I said, 'No. Enough is enough.'

"The next thing I know, I'm getting calls from Reuters and the
Associated Press and death threats in the mail, and then Joe Richards
has me on the front page of the local paper.

"He compared my wife and I to Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker; he said I was
playing free golf on a golf course here -- things that were hurtful to
my image," Trummell said.

Richards, who did not return telephone messages to the Sun, is
considered by many to be influential in Pahrump's policy-making
circles.

But Bishop said that Richards' influence is lessening as the town
grows.

"He does not have as much sway as people give him credit for. He does
own a fair amount of property in Crystal and Pahrump, and he does own
a local newspaper. But I think there have been enough people moving in
that his influence has eroded," Bishop said. Trummell said the battle
against brothels is still one that many locals are loathe to enter.

"I contacted other churches, but I couldn't get a lot of support. They
said they oppose the brothels privately, but not publicly," he said.
Two of his church members left First Southern Baptist when he
confronted the brothels; four others joined from other churches, he
said. "I'm still against it -- I think it goes against God's word and
demeans God, but I'm just a little country preacher -- what can I do?"

Bishop said the new zoning ordinance, expected to be enacted by next
June, will regulate certain elements of the sex industry, such as
prohibiting nudity in advertisements.

"We are looking at adult ordinances -- bookstores, topless bars,
brothels -- and there will be some regulations, but none that will
affect the way that brothels operate now," Bishop said. "If the
brothels stay low-key, they'll be fine. They're at the end of a
dead-end road, we don't have bar fights or murders, and the sheriff's
office doesn't have to come out often."

In addition to avoiding the nuisance image, the brothels also generate
money for the town and perform civic duties, according to Bishop.

"The clientele comes out and buys drinks in the bar, and that's sales
tax. If they come in a taxi, they stop in Pahrump and buy gas. The
employees buy their food here, see the local doctors, fill their
prescriptions here -- it all helps.

"Are they civically responsible? Certainly. They are a big supporter
of various service organizations, the Chamber of Commerce, the Lions
Club, etc. They contribute a fair amount to school athletic programs
-- but it's done quietly, they don't do it to grab attention," Bishop
said.

Bishop is the chairman of a nonprofit food bank that received "a nice
contribution" from the Chicken Ranch.

In addition to underwriting civic projects, the seven legal brothels
in Nye County together pay $168,000 per year in brothel license fees
and employee work-card fees, according to county officials. The money
goes to the county's health department for the purchase of emergency
vehicles.

The state health department regulates the prostitutes -- they must get
weekly health tests. There have been no reports of HIV since 1985, but
there have been several cases of chlamydia and gonorrhea.

Prostitutes generally work as independent contractors at the brothels
-- giving on average 50 percent of their fees to the owner. In some
cases, they pay $5 or $7 a day for their room, utilities, and food,
according to Kate Hausbeck, a UNLV sociologist professor who, along
with professor Barbara Brents, is writing a book on the Nevada sex
industry.

Generally brothel prostitutes charge a minimum of $300 for a sex act,
but average more than $600 per client.

"They fall into the middle of the echelon of prostitutes," said
Hausbeck. "The 'hegemonically beautiful' Las Vegas prostitute earns
more, followed by the healthy rural brothel prostitute, on down to the
street prostitutes."

[[email protected]]

In sci.geo.satellite-nav Dominic Sexton > wrote:
> >Does anyone know the address or coordinates of the airfield that Steve
> >Fossett took off from?

> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&ll=38.618111,-119.000258

Turning the view of GeoEye-Ikonos_1m on and off shows a change in
registration of the photo imagery around the airstrip. The point found
by a Google Earth Search is east of the runway by a little bit, I thought
due to rounding of the coordinate. Turning off the 1m view puts the point
on the runway. The point noted above is at the north end of the runway, at
a connection with an unused dirt runway. Toggling the 1m view on puts that
same point on East Walker Road on the photo.

You can see different planes on the tarmac. I would expect that someone is
performing photo comparisons between the two views to look for new items.

Seeing the planes on the ground gives you a "best view" of what you might
be looking for. If there is an aircraft at an angle, or damaged, it would
be smaller. My view looks like I would need to be at an eye altitude of
2000 feet or less to see anything.

Does anyone know where the other airplanes, the "previously unknown"
aircraft were located? Looking at that might give a clue what needs to be
discovered.


--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

[mcewena]

> Yuck. You can just make up all the data.
> There is freeware on the net which gives you reliable made-up data, e.g.,
> it gives an address, phone number, and zip code that is "legit" (albeit
> not true).
>
> Does anyone know the name of that freeware?

um, the phone book???

[[email protected]]

In sci.geo.satellite-nav Some Other Guy > wrote:
> miket6065 wrote:
> > 4. You can zoom down to the 12,000 foot level (or whatever) and search
> > the area for the blue Citabria taildragger. You can find a picture of
> > the actual plane here http://www.stevefossett.com

> According to www.stevefossett.com:

> The aircraft's last confirmed position on Monday (3 September) at
> approximately 10:30 A.M. local time showed Steve west of Powell
> Canyon (south of Walker Lake and southwest of Hawthorne),
> proceeding east towards the canyon.

> The geoeye-color.kml doesn't cover any of this area...

That is odd. I took three "hits", all in the southwest corner of the kml,
far away from that reported point, which is already east of the kml, and he
was reported heading east...

I zoomed to about 1000 feet, with a screen "ruler" of about 200 feet, where
the image goes from crisp to blurry on my screen.


--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

[John Tyson]

>
> I zoomed to about 1000 feet, with a screen "ruler" of about 200 feet,
> where
> the image goes from crisp to blurry on my screen.
>
>
> --
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

Clarence, did you notice any discrepancy in the dimensions you saw in Google
Earth vs. those they are showing in the "hit" images? Seemed to me they
differed by almost a factor of two on the few I looked at.

John Tyson

[[email protected]]

In sci.geo.satellite-nav John Tyson > wrote:
> Clarence, did you notice any discrepancy in the dimensions you saw in
> Google Earth vs. those they are showing in the "hit" images? Seemed to
> me they differed by almost a factor of two on the few I looked at.

The image shown on the web site is too small and dark for me to think
much about it. I noticed that they indicate the image is roughly 278 feet
square, but that has nothing to do with the initial zoom when you "fly to"
the coordinate in Google Earth. My initial zoom shows a ruler of 948 feet,
and an eye altitude of 3281 ft. They suggest an eye altitude of 1500 feet
for Google Earth. The hit that I just accepted is near some houses, so I
have some judgment of whether I would be able to spot a car or small
aircraft. If they expect people to just review the image on the web page,
that seems fairly worthless to me, but maybe it will work.

If he were around 37.422,-122.084 he would be easier to spot. There, I can
zoom to a ruler size of 40 feet and still see crisp imagery.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

[John Tyson]

> wrote in message ...
> In sci.geo.satellite-nav John Tyson > wrote:
>> Clarence, did you notice any discrepancy in the dimensions you saw in
>> Google Earth vs. those they are showing in the "hit" images? Seemed to
>> me they differed by almost a factor of two on the few I looked at.
>
> The image shown on the web site is too small and dark for me to think
> much about it. I noticed that they indicate the image is roughly 278 feet
> square, but that has nothing to do with the initial zoom when you "fly to"
> the coordinate in Google Earth. My initial zoom shows a ruler of 948
> feet,
> and an eye altitude of 3281 ft. They suggest an eye altitude of 1500 feet
> for Google Earth. The hit that I just accepted is near some houses, so I
> have some judgment of whether I would be able to spot a car or small
> aircraft. If they expect people to just review the image on the web page,
> that seems fairly worthless to me, but maybe it will work.
>
> If he were around 37.422,-122.084 he would be easier to spot. There, I
> can
> zoom to a ruler size of 40 feet and still see crisp imagery.
>
> --
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

The small images are definitely not usable. I can make out some detail on
the screen, but as you say they are almost black. Mainly though, the pixel
resolution in the images is much coarser than if you go to the Google Earth
location. I think they should probably have emphasized that in the
instructions, since some people may be trying to search the small images.
One thing I found useful, in both the presented images and the Google Earth
view, is to load the image into photoshop and enhance the contrast; on my
screen the Google Earth image is also very dark and lacks contrast. I
haven't looked, but there might be a Google Earth setting to adjust
contrast.

Per my original comment, the 278 feet seems to be closer to 350 or 400 feet
in the Google Earth imagery, so my "factor of two" was a little high.

John

[Dominic Sexton]

In article >, John Tyson
> writes
>The small images are definitely not usable.

They definitely are here. Only on a few of them have I felt the need to
use Google Earth to zoom in on part of the image that shows something
unusual.

>I can make out some detail on
>the screen, but as you say they are almost black. Mainly though, the pixel
>resolution in the images is much coarser than if you go to the Google Earth
>location. I think they should probably have emphasized that in the
>instructions, since some people may be trying to search the small images.

I'm sure many are and in my experience that is perfectly acceptable.
>
>One thing I found useful, in both the presented images and the Google Earth
>view, is to load the image into photoshop and enhance the contrast; on my
>screen the Google Earth image is also very dark and lacks contrast.

Sounds like you might benefit from adjusting your monitor:

http://www.users.on.net/~julian.robinson/photography/adjust-monitor.htm

If it is an LCD flat panel you may want to experiment with the angle you
view it from too as that can have a marked influence on the brightness
and contrast.

--

Dominic Sexton

[Ed]

I agree with John. I think the small dark images on the hit site are
just for reference. I believe the concept is for you to download the
kml file and plug in the hit coordinates into GE. Then browse that
area. I also found that if you do a print screen of the area, load it
into a photo processor and brighten the image, it helps. Also, the
ruler can be put to good use in GE. If you find anything interesting,
you can measure it to see if it's in the ballpark for a plan wreckage.

Here's an example:

http://images5.fotopic.net/?iid=yorpap&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

All I did was lighten the screen shot a little and annotate the picture.
The splotch is about 22 feet long using the GE ruler. I'm sure it's
nothing - probably just a rock ;-) But it serves as an example of how
one can use GE, the ruler and the coordinate system to locate possibilities.

I also found that once the kml file was loaded into GE, it became very
sluggish - much more so than normally using GE. Maybe my machine is
lacking - Win-XP SP2, 1 gig of RAM, 3 GHz processor. I'm sure more RAM
would help.

Arthur Hass
Reston, VA

John Tyson wrote:
> > wrote in message ...
>> In sci.geo.satellite-nav John Tyson > wrote:
>>> Clarence, did you notice any discrepancy in the dimensions you saw in
>>> Google Earth vs. those they are showing in the "hit" images? Seemed to
>>> me they differed by almost a factor of two on the few I looked at.
>> The image shown on the web site is too small and dark for me to think
>> much about it. I noticed that they indicate the image is roughly 278 feet
>> square, but that has nothing to do with the initial zoom when you "fly to"
>> the coordinate in Google Earth. My initial zoom shows a ruler of 948
>> feet,
>> and an eye altitude of 3281 ft. They suggest an eye altitude of 1500 feet
>> for Google Earth. The hit that I just accepted is near some houses, so I
>> have some judgment of whether I would be able to spot a car or small
>> aircraft. If they expect people to just review the image on the web page,
>> that seems fairly worthless to me, but maybe it will work.
>>
>> If he were around 37.422,-122.084 he would be easier to spot. There, I
>> can
>> zoom to a ruler size of 40 feet and still see crisp imagery.
>>
>> --
>> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
>
> The small images are definitely not usable. I can make out some detail on
> the screen, but as you say they are almost black. Mainly though, the pixel
> resolution in the images is much coarser than if you go to the Google Earth
> location. I think they should probably have emphasized that in the
> instructions, since some people may be trying to search the small images.
> One thing I found useful, in both the presented images and the Google Earth
> view, is to load the image into photoshop and enhance the contrast; on my
> screen the Google Earth image is also very dark and lacks contrast. I
> haven't looked, but there might be a Google Earth setting to adjust
> contrast.
>
> Per my original comment, the 278 feet seems to be closer to 350 or 400 feet
> in the Google Earth imagery, so my "factor of two" was a little high.
>
> John
>
>

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 GMT, miket6065 >
> wrote in >:
>
>>. In addition, you can get a search area assigned to you on Amazon's
>>Mechanical Turk by going here
>>http://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview?groupId=9TSZK4G35XEZJZG21T60&kw=Flash
>>
>>7. Then press the "Accept Hit" button and log in.
>>
>
> Even though you may already have an Amazon account, you will have to
> agree to:
>
<Snip, like, 40K bytes of text >

So, like, do you get paid by the word or something?

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[[email protected]]

In sci.geo.satellite-nav Ed <edATridersiteDOTorg> wrote:

> http://images5.fotopic.net/?iid=yorpap&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1

> All I did was lighten the screen shot a little and annotate the picture.
> The splotch is about 22 feet long using the GE ruler. I'm sure it's

I see that as about 15 feet long. I wouldn't have considered it a
significant hit, but looking away, and then scanning that area again after
a while, it does catch my eye. I have an eye altitude of 350 feet, and a
scale legend at 99 feet to match your screen shot. If I turn on ground
altitude by clicking Terrain in layers I see numbers that I think are
similar to yours, but I think the elevation above ground is more
interesting for this case.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

[Ed]

Yes. I'm at a bit of a loss as to how GE does the distance
calculations. I don't really doubt them, but many issues come into play
- ground altitude, eye altitude and any tilting imparted.

I forgot to mention that you can also measure the distance from the
Flying M Ranch. In this case it was 3.88 miles.

BTW, if anyone disagrees with the location of the airstrip see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying-M_Ranch

and do a little editing ;-)

wrote:
> In sci.geo.satellite-nav Ed <edATridersiteDOTorg> wrote:
>
>> http://images5.fotopic.net/?iid=yorpap&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1
>
>> All I did was lighten the screen shot a little and annotate the picture.
>> The splotch is about 22 feet long using the GE ruler. I'm sure it's
>
> I see that as about 15 feet long. I wouldn't have considered it a
> significant hit, but looking away, and then scanning that area again after
> a while, it does catch my eye. I have an eye altitude of 350 feet, and a
> scale legend at 99 feet to match your screen shot. If I turn on ground
> altitude by clicking Terrain in layers I see numbers that I think are
> similar to yours, but I think the elevation above ground is more
> interesting for this case.
>

[miket6065]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 16:40:58 +0000, dold wrote:

>> http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&ll=38.618111,-119.000258

Even simpler, I found this shortest URL on another group.
http://maps.google.com/?q=38.618111,-119.000258

I agree, it would be wonderful to have the coordinates of the 8 previously
uunknown crash sites.

Does anyone have coordinates for crash sites that haven't been cleaned up?

It would be a great reference for out search effort!

[John Tyson]

"Dominic Sexton" > wrote in message
...
> In article >, John Tyson
> > writes
>>The small images are definitely not usable.
>
> They definitely are here. Only on a few of them have I felt the need to
> use Google Earth to zoom in on part of the image that shows something
> unusual.
>
>>I can make out some detail on
>>the screen, but as you say they are almost black. Mainly though, the
>>pixel
>>resolution in the images is much coarser than if you go to the Google
>>Earth
>>location. I think they should probably have emphasized that in the
>>instructions, since some people may be trying to search the small images.
>
> I'm sure many are and in my experience that is perfectly acceptable.
>>
>>One thing I found useful, in both the presented images and the Google
>>Earth
>>view, is to load the image into photoshop and enhance the contrast; on my
>>screen the Google Earth image is also very dark and lacks contrast.
>
> Sounds like you might benefit from adjusting your monitor:
>
> http://www.users.on.net/~julian.robinson/photography/adjust-monitor.htm
>
> If it is an LCD flat panel you may want to experiment with the angle you
> view it from too as that can have a marked influence on the brightness and
> contrast.
>
> --
>
> Dominic Sexton

I retract my original statement about the pixel resolution being too coarse;
in reality it's about as good as what you get in Google Earth. The Google
Earth imagery "looks" better, but this is subjective I think; the detail you
can resolve is about the same in the small image and in Google Earth. (By
my calculations the pixel interval in the small images is about 1.5 feet.
The title of the kml file implies 1 meter resolution, but it's not clear if
this is the pixel interval in the original imagery or some other measure of
the image resolution. In any case, the 1.5 feet of the small images seems
adequate for the job.)

Regarding the monitor adjustments: You are probably right; I'm using an LCD
monitor, and the normal settings don't pull out details in the lowest
levels, even at optimum viewing angles. As far as I know I don't have any
way of adjusting the brightness/contrast/gamma on the monitor, so going to
Photoshop or some other image processing seems to be my only alternative to
pulling out detail in the imagery.

I was thinking about this today while away from my computer, and it occurred
to me that the darkness of the basic imagery may have been intentional; if
they expect the airplane to be significantly brighter than the background,
they may have darkened the normal imagery so a brighter object would stand
out. If anyone knows the coordinates of some of the wrecks they have found
I think it would be interesting to look at these in order to get a better
idea of what to look for.

John

[John Tyson]

"John Tyson" > wrote in message
...
>
If anyone knows the coordinates of some of the wrecks they have found
> I think it would be interesting to look at these in order to get a better
> idea of what to look for.
>
> John
>
Sorry Clarence; I did read your earlier message, but overlooked your asking
the same question :)

John

[Father Guido]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 17:11:57 -0400, Ed <edATridersiteDOTorg> wrote:

>I agree with John. I think the small dark images on the hit site are
>just for reference. I believe the concept is for you to download the
>kml file and plug in the hit coordinates into GE. Then browse that
>area. I also found that if you do a print screen of the area, load it
>into a photo processor and brighten the image, it helps. Also, the
>ruler can be put to good use in GE. If you find anything interesting,
>you can measure it to see if it's in the ballpark for a plan wreckage.
>
>Here's an example:
>
>http://images5.fotopic.net/?iid=yorpap&outx=600&noresize=1&nostamp=1
>
>All I did was lighten the screen shot a little and annotate the picture.
> The splotch is about 22 feet long using the GE ruler. I'm sure it's
>nothing - probably just a rock ;-) But it serves as an example of how
>one can use GE, the ruler and the coordinate system to locate possibilities.
>
>I also found that once the kml file was loaded into GE, it became very
>sluggish - much more so than normally using GE. Maybe my machine is
>lacking - Win-XP SP2, 1 gig of RAM, 3 GHz processor. I'm sure more RAM
>would help.

I noticed that too, it is so slooooooow it's painful to move your
view.
>
>Arthur Hass
>Reston, VA
>
>John Tyson wrote:
>> > wrote in message ...
>>> In sci.geo.satellite-nav John Tyson > wrote:
>>>> Clarence, did you notice any discrepancy in the dimensions you saw in
>>>> Google Earth vs. those they are showing in the "hit" images? Seemed to
>>>> me they differed by almost a factor of two on the few I looked at.
>>> The image shown on the web site is too small and dark for me to think
>>> much about it. I noticed that they indicate the image is roughly 278 feet
>>> square, but that has nothing to do with the initial zoom when you "fly to"
>>> the coordinate in Google Earth. My initial zoom shows a ruler of 948
>>> feet,
>>> and an eye altitude of 3281 ft. They suggest an eye altitude of 1500 feet
>>> for Google Earth. The hit that I just accepted is near some houses, so I
>>> have some judgment of whether I would be able to spot a car or small
>>> aircraft. If they expect people to just review the image on the web page,
>>> that seems fairly worthless to me, but maybe it will work.
>>>
>>> If he were around 37.422,-122.084 he would be easier to spot. There, I
>>> can
>>> zoom to a ruler size of 40 feet and still see crisp imagery.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5
>>
>> The small images are definitely not usable. I can make out some detail on
>> the screen, but as you say they are almost black. Mainly though, the pixel
>> resolution in the images is much coarser than if you go to the Google Earth
>> location. I think they should probably have emphasized that in the
>> instructions, since some people may be trying to search the small images.
>> One thing I found useful, in both the presented images and the Google Earth
>> view, is to load the image into photoshop and enhance the contrast; on my
>> screen the Google Earth image is also very dark and lacks contrast. I
>> haven't looked, but there might be a Google Earth setting to adjust
>> contrast.
>>
>> Per my original comment, the 278 feet seems to be closer to 350 or 400 feet
>> in the Google Earth imagery, so my "factor of two" was a little high.
>>
>> John
>>
>>

[Larry Dighera]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:11:00 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
Hawk at wow way d0t com> wrote in
>:

>"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
>> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 GMT, miket6065 >
>> wrote in >:
>>
>>>. In addition, you can get a search area assigned to you on Amazon's
>>>Mechanical Turk by going here
>>>http://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview?groupId=9TSZK4G35XEZJZG21T60&kw=Flash
>>>
>>>7. Then press the "Accept Hit" button and log in.
>>>
>>
>> Even though you may already have an Amazon account, you will have to
>> agree to:
>>
><Snip, like, 40K bytes of text >
>
>So, like, do you get paid by the word or something?

Do you think it's reasonable for Amazon to _require_ participants (who
already have an Amazon account or not) in the search for Fossett to
agree to payment terms before Amazon will permit them volunteer to
help?

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:28:49 GMT, Larry Dighera > wrote in >:

>Do you think it's reasonable for Amazon to _require_ participants (who
>already have an Amazon account or not) in the search for Fossett to
>agree to payment terms before Amazon will permit them volunteer to
>help?

Short answer: yes.

Explanation: The Mechanical Turk is something Amazon runs as a
business.

It happens to be useful for distributing a few hundred thousand
images to volunteers to look at.

I read over the agreement and learned about the Mechanical Turk
before signing the agreement.

It's just boilerplate associated with the already-existing
MT business that friends of Fossett are using to do the
search. It's no more life-threatening than hundreds, if not
thousands, of boilerplate agreements that I've signed in the
24 years I've been using computers.

I've done 720 images so far, working a few minutes here and
there. I don't have any great hope that this will find Fossett,
but I don't mind pitching in from time to time anyway.
My guess is that the resolution of the images is going to be
too poor to see a plane nose-down in a forest, crumpled up
against a canyon wall, or crashed-and-burned.

Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

[Vaughn Simon]

"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 19:11:00 -0400, "Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe" <The Sea
>
> Do you think it's reasonable for Amazon to _require_ participants (who
> already have an Amazon account or not) in the search for Fossett to
> agree to payment terms before Amazon will permit them volunteer to
> help?

No, and that is why I have not (so far) participated in the search.

Vaughn
>

[John Gianni]

On Sep 12, 12:07 am, miket6065 > wrote:
> 8. Then press on the link "To help in the search for Steve Fossett, please
> click here" and then press on the link "Work on HITs", whatever a "hit" is.

HIT === Human-Intelligence Task

REFERENCE:
http://dsc.discovery.com/news/2007/09/12/fossett_tec.html?category=technology

[Billiam Davis]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 +0000, miket6065 wrote:

> 0. Install Google Earth freeware on your PC:
> http://www.softpedia.com/get/Others/Home-Education/Google-Earth.shtml

It was interesting to hook up a joystick and fly the free Google Earth
SR22 airplane. I set the flaps <control + F> at 40% and took off from the
Flying M Ranch, heading south for 50 miles and then circled spiraling
inward.

I noticed that <Control + Alt + A> added the Google Earth menu:
Tools -> Enter Flight Simulator

You could also position yourself over the Flying M airfield at your
desired altitude and just press Control + A to begin flying.

If you don't have a joystick, you can use the keyboard arrow keys, F for
flaps, etc. but it's not as realistic a flight.

It's the closest feeling to the real search effort you can get. Once you
experience the search using the Google Earth Flight Simulator, you'll
realize why we haven't yet found Steve Fossett's plane crash site.

[Billiam Davis]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 +0000, miket6065 wrote:

> 1. Download the map update recently taken of the search area
> http://s3.amazonaws.com/fossett/geoeye-color.kml

I suggest pressing Control-A after positioning yourself in
Google Earth Flight Simulator (GEFS) at 1000 feet above
the Flying M Ranch. To begin your takeoff from the airstrip,
just enter these coordinates into the GEFS "Fly to" window:
+38 37' 5.20", -119 0' 0.93"

If, while you're flying the GEFS, you do find an interesting
potential crash target, you can telephone in a tip by calling
+1-910-396-0704. Press 4719, when you hear the tone, leave
your name, contact number, latitude, & longitude, and a
description of the area of interest in GEFS.

For bearings, here is a snapshot of your starting point:
http://maps.google.com/?q=38.61868951579681,-119.00016188621521

Good luck!

[Billiam Davis]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 +0000, miket6065 wrote:

> 2. Start Google Earth and Load the new GeoEye maps into Google Earth.
> File -> Open -> geoeye-color.kml

Note the reference point moves slightly between the old and new
satellite photos and that the newer satellite photographs
have greater contrast.

To discern which photos you are viewing (old or new), you
can doublecheck using these recent satellite images of the
Flying M Ranch airstrip at location
38.61868951579681, -119.00016188621521
38 37' 07.282257", -119 00' 00.582790"

NEW SATELLITE PHOTOS IN GOOGLE EARTH of the FLYING M:
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38d37m07282257s119d00m0vs0.jpg

OLD SATELLITE PHOTOS IN GOOGLE EARTH of the FLYING M:
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38d37m07282257s119d00m0vs0.jpg

OLD SATELLITE PHOTOS IN GOOGLE MAPS of the FLYING M:
http://maps.google.com/?q=38.61868951579681,-119.00016188621521

Note: Here is a good freeware DMS conversion program which
works better than the "dms" function in the "scientific"
mode of the Microsoft "Start -> Run -> calc -> OK" applet.
http://www.mentorsoftwareinc.com/FREEBIE/FREE1198.HTM

[Billiam Davis]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 +0000, miket6065 wrote:\

> 1. Download the map update recently taken of the search area this week
> http://s3.amazonaws.com/fossett/geoeye-color.kml

One way you can tell if you're looking at old satellite
photos or newly taken photographs is to look at the
head of the Flying M Ranch airfield.

NEW SATELLITE PHOTOS:
http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38d37m07282257s119d00m0vs0.jpg

OLD SATELLITE PHOTOS:
http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38d37m07282257s119d00m0rv1.jpg
http://maps.google.com/?q=38.61868951579681,-119.00016188621521

Notice newer satellite photos have better contrast.
Also note the reference point for the Flying M Ranch
seems to move between photographs.

You can convert coordinates either with the Windows Calculator
"Start -> Run -> calc -> OK" dms button in "Scientific" mode,
or just use any freeware DMS calculator such as
http://www.mentorsoftwareinc.com/FREEBIE/FREE1198.HTM

Here are it's calcuations for the Flyin M Ranch:
38.61868951579681,-119.00016188621521
+38 37' 5.20", -119 0' 0.93"38
37' 07.282257", -119 00' 00.582790"

[Rudy P]

I have a plane,not sure if on the ground. Please if others could check.
LAT.38.698404 LON.-119.037355 Rudy.



"Billiam Davis" > wrote in message
...
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 +0000, miket6065 wrote:\
>
>> 1. Download the map update recently taken of the search area this week
>> http://s3.amazonaws.com/fossett/geoeye-color.kml
>
> One way you can tell if you're looking at old satellite
> photos or newly taken photographs is to look at the
> head of the Flying M Ranch airfield.
>
> NEW SATELLITE PHOTOS:
> http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38d37m07282257s119d00m0vs0.jpg
>
> OLD SATELLITE PHOTOS:
> http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38d37m07282257s119d00m0rv1.jpg
> http://maps.google.com/?q=38.61868951579681,-119.00016188621521
>
> Notice newer satellite photos have better contrast.
> Also note the reference point for the Flying M Ranch
> seems to move between photographs.
>
> You can convert coordinates either with the Windows Calculator
> "Start -> Run -> calc -> OK" dms button in "Scientific" mode,
> or just use any freeware DMS calculator such as
> http://www.mentorsoftwareinc.com/FREEBIE/FREE1198.HTM
>
> Here are it's calcuations for the Flyin M Ranch:
> 38.61868951579681,-119.00016188621521
> +38 37' 5.20", -119 0' 0.93"38
> 37' 07.282257", -119 00' 00.582790"
>
>
>
>

[Flyin'[email protected]]

"Rudy P" > wrote:
> I have a plane,not sure if on the ground. Please if others could check.
> LAT.38.698404 LON.-119.037355 Rudy.
>

I would say it is almost certainly a plane. It does not look like it is on
the ground to me. I would certainly mark it as a hit and forward it on.

--
Mike Flyin'8
PP-ASEL
Temecula, CA
http://flying.4alexanders.com

[Rudy P]

The sun is from south east high up,and I don't see a shadow of the plane.
"Rudy P" > wrote in message
...
>I have a plane,not sure if on the ground. Please if others could check.
>LAT.38.698404 LON.-119.037355 Rudy.
>
>
>
> "Billiam Davis" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 +0000, miket6065 wrote:\
>>
>>> 1. Download the map update recently taken of the search area this week
>>> http://s3.amazonaws.com/fossett/geoeye-color.kml
>>
>> One way you can tell if you're looking at old satellite
>> photos or newly taken photographs is to look at the
>> head of the Flying M Ranch airfield.
>>
>> NEW SATELLITE PHOTOS:
>> http://img520.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38d37m07282257s119d00m0vs0.jpg
>>
>> OLD SATELLITE PHOTOS:
>> http://img404.imageshack.us/my.php?image=38d37m07282257s119d00m0rv1.jpg
>> http://maps.google.com/?q=38.61868951579681,-119.00016188621521
>>
>> Notice newer satellite photos have better contrast.
>> Also note the reference point for the Flying M Ranch
>> seems to move between photographs.
>>
>> You can convert coordinates either with the Windows Calculator
>> "Start -> Run -> calc -> OK" dms button in "Scientific" mode,
>> or just use any freeware DMS calculator such as
>> http://www.mentorsoftwareinc.com/FREEBIE/FREE1198.HTM
>>
>> Here are it's calcuations for the Flyin M Ranch:
>> 38.61868951579681,-119.00016188621521
>> +38 37' 5.20", -119 0' 0.93"38
>> 37' 07.282257", -119 00' 00.582790"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

[John Tyson]

"Rudy P" > wrote in message
...
>I have a plane,not sure if on the ground. Please if others could check.
>LAT.38.698404 LON.-119.037355 Rudy.
>
Whether it's on the ground or in the air, it's the type of thing they want
you to report.

John

[Rudy P]

I still did not figure out how.How do you report a hit?


"John Tyson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Rudy P" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I have a plane,not sure if on the ground. Please if others could check.
>>LAT.38.698404 LON.-119.037355 Rudy.
>>
> Whether it's on the ground or in the air, it's the type of thing they want
> you to report.
>
> John
>

[John Tyson]

"Rudy P" > wrote in message
...
>I still did not figure out how.How do you report a hit?
>
I thought you found the plane while participating in the "mechanical turk"
search, in which case reporting it would have been a part of the process.
If you found it just by looking, probably the best bet would be to go to the
Steve Fossett website http://www.stevefossett.com/ and just report it on
their contact link.

John

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Rudy P" > wrote in message
...
>I still did not figure out how.How do you report a hit?
>
<...>

"A hotline has been established for tips in the search for Steve.

The number, (910) 396-0704 and when the tone comes, dial 4719.
Officials say tipsters should be prepared to leave their name, contact
number, latitude and longitude coordinates and a description of the
area."

--
--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Rudy P]

No I did not participate, it was just a 3 hrs of search around the airport.
It is most likely a search plane. I tried a 910 396-0704 number and it does
not work from Montreal. There is just no way of giving the info.I am
surprised that there is no site to report findings outside the system.


"John Tyson" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Rudy P" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I still did not figure out how.How do you report a hit?
>>
> I thought you found the plane while participating in the "mechanical turk"
> search, in which case reporting it would have been a part of the process.
> If you found it just by looking, probably the best bet would be to go to
> the Steve Fossett website http://www.stevefossett.com/ and just report it
> on their contact link.
>
> John
>

[Larry Dighera]

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:50:48 -0400, "Rudy P"
> wrote in
>:

>I tried a 910 396-0704 number and it does not work from Montreal.

Consider prepending a Country Code of 'one'
to the telephone number: 1 910 396-0704

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

..
"Larry Dighera" > wrote in message
...
> On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:50:48 -0400, "Rudy P"
> > wrote in
> >:
>
>>I tried a 910 396-0704 number and it does not work from Montreal.
>
> Consider prepending a Country Code of 'one'
> to the telephone number: 1 910 396-0704

If you dial the 910 396 0704 number you get another dial tone - then you
dial 4719 - it's kinda confusing - it took me a couple tries before I
thought to keep dialing.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate

[[email protected]]

In sci.geo.satellite-nav Nomen Nescio > wrote:
> They seem to have a new set of pictures that extent further East.
> http://s3.amazonaws.com/Fossett-DG/DG/index.kml

A different color. Much easier to view, for me.
It looks like the planes on the airstrip and some nearby ground equipment
are the same though. I wonder what the date is.

I think I'll revisit some of the hits I took.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

[Billiam Davis]

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 17:10:58 -0400, Rudy P wrote:

> I still did not figure out how.How do you report a hit?

One way to report a hit is to telephone the Steve Fossett
search-tips hotline at +1-910-396-0704. When you hear
the tone, press 4719.

Be prepared to leave your name, contact number, latitude, &
longitude, and a description of the area of interest.

[Billiam Davis]

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:10:40 +0200, Nomen Nescio wrote:

> From: "Rudy P" >
>
>>I have a plane,not sure if on the ground. Please if others could check.
>>LAT.38.698404 LON.-119.037355 Rudy.
>
> They seem to have a new set of pictures that extent further East.
> http://s3.amazonaws.com/Fossett-DG/DG/index.kml
>
> I don't see the plane in the new set.

Nomen,
Can you confirm the second set of kml files is ADDITIVE?
That is, should we load BOTH the kml files mentioned
in this thread - or should we only load this latest KML
file?

[John Tyson]

"Billiam Davis" > wrote in message
. net...
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 00:10:40 +0200, Nomen Nescio wrote:
>
>> From: "Rudy P" >
>>
>>>I have a plane,not sure if on the ground. Please if others could check.
>>>LAT.38.698404 LON.-119.037355 Rudy.
>>
>> They seem to have a new set of pictures that extent further East.
>> http://s3.amazonaws.com/Fossett-DG/DG/index.kml
>>
>> I don't see the plane in the new set.
>
> Nomen,
> Can you confirm the second set of kml files is ADDITIVE?
> That is, should we load BOTH the kml files mentioned
> in this thread - or should we only load this latest KML
> file?

I finally saw the new files tonight! Last night they were giving me HITs in
the eastern area, and all I could see was the original maps, so I knew I
wasn't doing anything meaningful. Then this morning they were giving me
HITs in the area covered by the first kml file, but I noticed the Google
Earth coordinates weren't centered on the HIT image; even sent them a
comment on that! Tonight I am finally seeing the new kml file data (thanks
to the above link; I tried several times before to load it from the
mechanical turk site link, but either that wasn't working or I didn't know
what I was doing - probably the latter :)).

The files aren't additive, but they overlap; I think the best bet is to have
both loaded, but make sure the new one is being used if the HIT is located
within it (uncheck the box for the first file).

John

[John Tyson]

> wrote in message ...
> In sci.geo.satellite-nav Nomen Nescio > wrote:
>> They seem to have a new set of pictures that extent further East.
>> http://s3.amazonaws.com/Fossett-DG/DG/index.kml
>
> A different color. Much easier to view, for me.
> It looks like the planes on the airstrip and some nearby ground equipment
> are the same though. I wonder what the date is.
>
> I think I'll revisit some of the hits I took.
>
> --
> Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

There are some differences: Different shadow angles (same day, different
time?) and some of the vehicles have moved. Colors are definitely easier to
view, but looking closely at the aircraft and vehicles at the airfield, the
first kml imagery has a slightly better resolution. I think if I saw
anything really interesting using the new file I would take another look at
it with the first file (but so far haven't seen anything of real interest).

John

[Sandra Baker]

"John Tyson" > wrote in
:

> The files aren't additive, but they overlap; I think the best bet is
> to have both loaded, but make sure the new one is being used if the
> HIT is located within it (uncheck the box for the first file).

Are you SURE the files overlap?

Here is the KML outlining updated Steve Fossett search areas in red.
http://www.gearthblog.com/kmfiles/searchforfossett.kmz

Notice the two updated Steve Fossett search areas do NOT overlap.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/13636939@N06/1389992170/

[John Tyson]

"Sandra Baker" > wrote in message
. net...
> "John Tyson" > wrote in
> :
>
>> The files aren't additive, but they overlap; I think the best bet is
>> to have both loaded, but make sure the new one is being used if the
>> HIT is located within it (uncheck the box for the first file).
>
> Are you SURE the files overlap?
>
> Here is the KML outlining updated Steve Fossett search areas in red.
> http://www.gearthblog.com/kmfiles/searchforfossett.kmz
>
> Notice the two updated Steve Fossett search areas do NOT overlap.
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/13636939@N06/1389992170/
>

The files I was referring to were the GeoEye imagery you get by following
the kml link in the message that started this thread, and the Digital Globe
imagery you get by following the kml link on the Mechanical Turk webpage.
The GeoEye imagery is the dark green area, which overlaps the western search
area outlined in red, and the Digital Globe imagery is the imagery within
the western search area; this was the imagery I was talking about when I
said they overlap. I'm not sure what's going on with the eastern search
area outlined in red; it doesn't seem to be part of the Mechanical Turk
search effort, or if it is they need to change there kml link to include
it's imagery!

John

[[email protected]]

In sci.geo.satellite-nav wrote:
> I think I'll revisit some of the hits I took.

None of my previous hits are in the new kml area.

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

[Tri-Pacer]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but how can Google earth help search for
Fossett when the photos are maybe years old???

Cheers:

Paul
N1431A
KPLU

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:43:51 -0700, "Tri-Pacer" > wrote in >:

>Maybe this is a dumb question, but how can Google earth help search for
>Fossett when the photos are maybe years old???

At least two different companies have contributed fresh aerial
photography so that folks CAN help in the search:

http://www.gearthblog.com/blog/archives/2007/09/help_find_steve_fosset_with_google.html

The photos have also been fed into Amazon's Mechanical Turk:

http://www.mturk.com/mturk/tutorial

I've done about 1000 hits this week, working at odd times.

Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

[Newby]

"Martin X. Moleski, SJ" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:43:51 -0700, "Tri-Pacer" >
wrote in >:
>
> >Maybe this is a dumb question, but how can Google earth help search for
> >Fossett when the photos are maybe years old???
>
> At least two different companies have contributed fresh aerial
> photography so that folks CAN help in the search:
>
>
http://www.gearthblog.com/blog/archives/2007/09/help_find_steve_fosset_with_google.html
>
> The photos have also been fed into Amazon's Mechanical Turk:
>
> http://www.mturk.com/mturk/tutorial
>
> I've done about 1000 hits this week, working at odd times.
>
> Marty

Can someone explain why it is necessary to open an account with Amazon
before you can participate in the search?

Thanks.

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 05:17:24 -0400, "Newby" > wrote in >:

>http://www.gearthblog.com/blog/archives/2007/09/help_find_steve_fosset_with_google.html

>> The photos have also been fed into Amazon's Mechanical Turk:

>> http://www.mturk.com/mturk/tutorial

>Can someone explain why it is necessary to open an account with Amazon
>before you can participate in the search?

1. Because it may help discourage vandals.

2. Because the search is taking advantage of a pre-existing
service that Amazon offers. In order to get into the innards
of that system, you have to be registered.

It makes sense to me. YMMV.

Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

[Billiam Davis]

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:05:54 -0700, John Tyson wrote:

> The files I was referring to were the GeoEye imagery you get by following
> the kml link in the message that started this thread, and the Digital Globe
> imagery you get by following the kml link on the Mechanical Turk webpage.

Can someone summarize what the latest KML files are?

[Billiam Davis]

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:55:31 -0400, Rudy P wrote:

> I have a plane,not sure if on the ground. Please if others could check.
> LAT.38.698404 LON.-119.037355 Rudy.

Here is a what a possible crash site, just outside the
Steve Fossett search area, looks like.
http://maps.google.com/?q=39.070750,-119.490250

From the news:
Vladimir Shenderov in Russia has found in in 2003 images the
possible plane crash site on the state border between Nevada and
California. The found object location (WGS-84) is 39 degrees 4 minutes
14.7 seconds of north latitude, and 119 degrees 29 minutes 24.9 seconds
of west longitude

[Billiam Davis]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:25:59 -0700, Billiam Davis wrote:

> On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:55:31 -0400, Rudy P wrote:
>
>> I have a plane,not sure if on the ground. Please if others could check.
>> LAT.38.698404 LON.-119.037355 Rudy.
>
> Here is a what a possible crash site looks like.
> http://maps.google.com/?q=39.070750,-119.490250

If you tilt this possible airplane crash site in
Google Earth, you can see it's near the crest of a
gentle slope where the white car-sized object
appears to have slid into the top of the hill from
the east and lay itself to rest on the crest of the
hill.

This kind of underscores the fact you need to search
with some topography available to you.

Does Amazon's Mechanical Turk show topography?
Or only Google Earth?

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:32:29 -0700, Billiam Davis > wrote in >:

> ... This kind of underscores the fact you need to search
>with some topography available to you.

>Does Amazon's Mechanical Turk show topography?

No.

But each hit comes with a latitude/longitude specification
that may be cut and pasted into Google Earth for further
review.

Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:15:54 -0700, Billiam Davis > wrote in
>:

>On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 10:05:54 -0700, John Tyson wrote:
>
>> The files I was referring to were the GeoEye imagery you get by following
>> the kml link in the message that started this thread, and the Digital Globe
>> imagery you get by following the kml link on the Mechanical Turk webpage.
>
>Can someone summarize what the latest KML files are?

Checking this page:

http://www.mturk.com/mturk/preview?groupId=9TSZK4G35XEZJZG21T60

I copied this link:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/Fossett-DG/DG/index.kml

I think that should load the relevant satellite imagery.

Marty
--
Big-8 newsgroups: humanities.*, misc.*, news.*, rec.*, sci.*, soc.*, talk.*
See http://www.big-8.org for info on how to add or remove newsgroups.

[karl gruber[_1_]]

> Can someone explain why it is necessary to open an account with Amazon
> before you can participate in the search?
>
> Thanks.
>

Because Amazon is paying for it

[karl gruber[_1_]]

Looks like mine tailings, especially since it's on a road with several other
mine sites.



"Billiam Davis" > wrote in message
...
> On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 08:25:59 -0700, Billiam Davis wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:55:31 -0400, Rudy P wrote:
>>
>>> I have a plane,not sure if on the ground. Please if others could check.
>>> LAT.38.698404 LON.-119.037355 Rudy.
>>
>> Here is a what a possible crash site looks like.
>> http://maps.google.com/?q=39.070750,-119.490250
>
> If you tilt this possible airplane crash site in
> Google Earth, you can see it's near the crest of a
> gentle slope where the white car-sized object
> appears to have slid into the top of the hill from
> the east and lay itself to rest on the crest of the
> hill.
>
> This kind of underscores the fact you need to search
> with some topography available to you.
>
> Does Amazon's Mechanical Turk show topography?
> Or only Google Earth?

[Larry Dighera]

On Mon, 17 Sep 2007 09:04:17 -0400, "Martin X. Moleski, SJ"
> wrote in >:

>
>>Can someone explain why it is necessary to open an account with Amazon
>>before you can participate in the search?
>
>1. Because it may help discourage vandals.

Unfortunately, it's not discouraging the clueless from disrupting the
CAP SAR operations:


FOSSETT "FREELANCERS" SPARK TFR
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/954-full.html#196145)
The FAA has imposed a temporary flight restriction
(http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_7_7172.html) over the area
being searched for Steve Fossett after a the pilot of a privately
owned aircraft not formally engaged in the search began an
impromptu sweep of the area on Friday. According to an Associated
Press
(http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/09/15/fossett.search.ap/index.html)
report, the pilot was contacted and told whoever contacted him
that he was trying to claim a $10,000 reward offered on the social
networking Web site YouChoose.net
(http://www.youchoose.net/campaign/help_find_steve_fossett) for
information leading to the discovery of Fossett. However, getting
some stick time over the Nevada wilderness wasn't what
YouChoose.net had in mind, nor did it please searchers.
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/954-full.html#196145


http://www.youchoose.net/campaign/help_find_steve_fossett
YOUCHOOSE.NET OFFERS A $10,000 REWARD TO THE FIRST YOUCHOOSE
MEMBER WHO PROVIDES INFORMATION LEADING TO THE RESCUE OF STEVE
FOSSETT. TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE!




http://tfr.faa.gov/save_pages/detail_7_7172.html
NOTAM Number : FDC 7/7172
Issue Date : September 15, 2007 at 2026 UTC
Location : Oakland Center, 30 W of Coaldale, Nevada
Beginning Date and Time : September 15, 2007 at 2200 UTC
Ending Date and Time : September 16, 2007 at 0230 UTC
Reason for NOTAM : To provide a safe environment for search and
rescue operations.
Type : Hazards
Replaced NOTAM(s) : N/A
Pilots May Contact : System Operations Support (ZOA) Center,
202-493-5107

Jump To: Affected Areas
Operating Restrictions and Requirements
Other Information


Affected Area(s) Top

Airspace Definition:
Region bounded by:
Latitude: Longitude:
38º30'00"N 119º00'00"W
38º30'00"N 118º30'00"W
37º45'00"N 118º30'00"W
37º45'00"N 119º00'00"W
38º30'00"N 119º00'00"W

Altitude: From the surface up to and including 2000 feet MSL
Effective Date(s):
From September 15, 2007 at 2200 UTC
To September 16, 2007 at 0230 UTC

Operating Restrictions and Requirements Top

No pilots may operate an aircraft in the areas covered by this
NOTAM (except as described).

Only relief aircraft operations under the direction of the
Incident Commander are authorized in the airspace.

Aircraft may land and depart airports within the airspace CAP


Other Information: Top
ARTCC: ZOA - Oakland Center
Point of Contact: CAP Incident Commander
Telephone 775-782-6260
Authority: Title 14 CFR section 91.137(a)(3)

[[email protected]]

In sci.geo.satellite-nav Billiam Davis > wrote:
> Here is a what a possible crash site, just outside the
> Steve Fossett search area, looks like.

There are supposed to be some confirmed crash sites that have been found as
part of the Steve Fossett search. Does anyone know the coordinates of
those?

--
Clarence A Dold - Hidden Valley Lake, CA, USA GPS: 38.8,-122.5

[Billiam Davis]

On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 +0000, miket6065 wrote:

> 10. If you want, they also give you coordinates such as
> "38.117852,-119.279851" which you can then go back and paste into the
> Google Earth tool to look at the same location and zoom around using the
> Google Earth software.

I think these are the three updated search areas (outlined in red)
http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=threesearchareanr9.jpg

[Billiam Davis]

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 04:13:27 +0000, Sandra Baker wrote:

>> The files aren't additive, but they overlap; I think the best bet is
>> to have both loaded, but make sure the new one is being used if the
>> HIT is located within it (uncheck the box for the first file).
>
> Are you SURE the files overlap?

Of the three satellite photograph updates for the Steve Fossett search,
apparently two overlap and one is purely additive.

The image below shows the three search areas, each outlined in red.
http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=threesearchareanr9.jpg

[John Tyson]

"Billiam Davis" > wrote in message
. ..
> On Wed, 12 Sep 2007 07:07:10 +0000, miket6065 wrote:
>
>> 10. If you want, they also give you coordinates such as
>> "38.117852,-119.279851" which you can then go back and paste into the
>> Google Earth tool to look at the same location and zoom around using the
>> Google Earth software.
>
> I think these are the three updated search areas (outlined in red)
> http://img529.imageshack.us/my.php?image=threesearchareanr9.jpg

I noticed tonight the Mechanical Turk site has added two more areas of
GeoEye imagery, to the west and south of the earlier three. Lots of cloud
cover in the one to the west, and some large registration errors (1500 feet
at one point I checked). These seem to be the areas where the latest HITS
are located.

John

[Larry Dighera]

One wonders why it took three weeks for this information to surface:

FRESH CLUES REVIVE FOSSETT SEARCH
(http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/961-full.html#196230)
Search crews looking for adventurer Steve Fossett, who vanished
while on a pleasure flight more than three weeks ago, now are
working with fresh leads provided by the U.S. Air Force, the
Associated Press

(http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nation/20070925-1935-stevefossett.html)
reported on Wednesday. An analysis of radar and satellite images
has picked up what might be the track that Fossett flew. "It gives
us an idea, if it's him, what direction he was going," Gary Derks,
the state official in charge of the search, told the AP. Derks
said the new search area stretches about 100 miles to the
southeast from the Flying M Ranch, where Fossett took off on Sept.
3, crossing remote areas of Nevada and approaching Death Valley
National Park in California. "There's nothing definite, nothing
concrete," Derks said. "These are just some hits that we want to
track."
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/961-full.html#196230