A Laser Phalanx?

[[email protected]]

See:

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/

[Ralph_S]

On 13 Sep, 05:17, wrote:
> See:
>
> http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/

Using a laser as a weapon really only make sense if speed is
essential. Close-in defence would seem to be an application where this
is the case, but as with every single laser weapon so far, getting
from an idea to a deployable and reliable operational system is
probably going to take a long time.

Cheers,
Ralph

[[email protected]]

On Sep 13, 7:09 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
> On 13 Sep, 05:17, wrote:
>
> > See:
>
> >http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/
>
> Using a laser as a weapon really only make sense if speed is
> essential.

But speed is ALWAYS essential when you're
working military idiots and the only thing they
know about EM is RADAR directors.
So that's why we even invented LASERS.


Close-in defence would seem to be an application where this
> is the case, but as with every single laser weapon so far, getting
> from an idea to a deployable and reliable operational system is
> probably going to take a long time.
>
> Cheers,
> Ralph

[Ralph_S]

On 13 Sep, 12:15, " >
wrote:
> On Sep 13, 7:09 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>
> > On 13 Sep, 05:17, wrote:
>
> > > See:
>
> > >http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/
>
> > Using a laser as a weapon really only make sense if speed is
> > essential.
>
> But speed is ALWAYS essential when you're
> working military idiots and the only thing they
> know about EM is RADAR directors.
> So that's why we even invented LASERS.
>
I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
..
Lasers are not particularly good at destroying anything. They're
hugely inefficient. If you want to kill somebody, use a bullet. If you
want to destroy a bridge, use explosives. If you want to kill a
projectile coming towards you at more than mach 1, then a laser makes
sense, because it arrives at its target almost instantaneously.

Apart from the laser-armed AC-130 idea that's floating around, most
uses of lasers as weapons that are under development or proposed deal
with some form of missile defense, where speed is more important than
efficiency.

Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
interferometry.

Cheers,
Ralph

[[email protected]]

On Sep 13, 10:38 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
> On 13 Sep, 12:15, " >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Sep 13, 7:09 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>
> > > On 13 Sep, 05:17, wrote:
>
> > > > See:
>
> > > >http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/
>
> > > Using a laser as a weapon really only make sense if speed is
> > > essential.
>
> > But speed is ALWAYS essential when you're
> > working military idiots and the only thing they
> > know about EM is RADAR directors.
> > So that's why we even invented LASERS.
>
> I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
> .
> Lasers are not particularly good at destroying anything. They're
> hugely inefficient. If you want to kill somebody, use a bullet. If you
> want to destroy a bridge, use explosives. If you want to kill a
> projectile coming towards you at more than mach 1, then a laser makes
> sense, because it arrives at its target almost instantaneously.
>
> Apart from the laser-armed AC-130 idea that's floating around, most
> uses of lasers as weapons that are under development or proposed deal
> with some form of missile defense, where speed is more important than
> efficiency.
>
> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> alone a military one,

The Lasers you are talking about physics morons
and mental defect laboraties.
The people who more than an infintie amount
of moron double slit time to waste,
make DVDs, Sniper Rifiles, RPG Launchers,
moon rockets, and LAser(c) Printers, with them.



but the people who developed them mainly saw a
> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
> interferometry.
>
> Cheers,
> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Ralph_S]

On Sep 13, 3:47 pm, " >
wrote:
> On Sep 13, 10:38 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 13 Sep, 12:15, " >
> > wrote:
>
> > > On Sep 13, 7:09 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>
> > > > On 13 Sep, 05:17, wrote:
>
> > > > > See:
>
> > > > >http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/
>
> > > > Using a laser as a weapon really only make sense if speed is
> > > > essential.
>
> > > But speed is ALWAYS essential when you're
> > > working military idiots and the only thing they
> > > know about EM is RADAR directors.
> > > So that's why we even invented LASERS.
>
> > I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
> > .
> > Lasers are not particularly good at destroying anything. They're
> > hugely inefficient. If you want to kill somebody, use a bullet. If you
> > want to destroy a bridge, use explosives. If you want to kill a
> > projectile coming towards you at more than mach 1, then a laser makes
> > sense, because it arrives at its target almost instantaneously.
>
> > Apart from the laser-armed AC-130 idea that's floating around, most
> > uses of lasers as weapons that are under development or proposed deal
> > with some form of missile defense, where speed is more important than
> > efficiency.
>
> > Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> > alone a military one,
>
> The Lasers you are talking about physics morons
> and mental defect laboraties.
> The people who more than an infintie amount
> of moron double slit time to waste,
> make DVDs, Sniper Rifiles, RPG Launchers,
> moon rockets, and LAser(c) Printers, with them.
>

I'm can only guess what you mean, because your sentences don't make
sense.

I don't think that calling the physicists who actually developed
lasers morons for not foreseeing the many different uses for their
invention is justified. It works fine for the purposes they
envisioned. I have no idea how this is related to RPGs or moon
rockets, by the way.

Furthermore, it's completely beside the point. Unless I misunderstood
you, you wrote that lasers were invented for military purposes, when
they actually weren't. It didn't take the military long to come up
with military uses for them, but that's a different matter
altogether.

What exactly is your point here anyway? Are you simply making an
argument for argument's sake?

Ralph

[La N]

"Ralph_S" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 13, 3:47 pm, " >
> wrote:
>> On Sep 13, 10:38 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 13 Sep, 12:15, " >
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Sep 13, 7:09 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>>
>> > > > On 13 Sep, 05:17, wrote:
>>
>> > > > > See:
>>
>> > > > >http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/
>>
>> > > > Using a laser as a weapon really only make sense if speed is
>> > > > essential.
>>
>> > > But speed is ALWAYS essential when you're
>> > > working military idiots and the only thing they
>> > > know about EM is RADAR directors.
>> > > So that's why we even invented LASERS.
>>
>> > I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
>> > .
>> > Lasers are not particularly good at destroying anything. They're
>> > hugely inefficient. If you want to kill somebody, use a bullet. If you
>> > want to destroy a bridge, use explosives. If you want to kill a
>> > projectile coming towards you at more than mach 1, then a laser makes
>> > sense, because it arrives at its target almost instantaneously.
>>
>> > Apart from the laser-armed AC-130 idea that's floating around, most
>> > uses of lasers as weapons that are under development or proposed deal
>> > with some form of missile defense, where speed is more important than
>> > efficiency.
>>
>> > Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>> > alone a military one,
>>
>> The Lasers you are talking about physics morons
>> and mental defect laboraties.
>> The people who more than an infintie amount
>> of moron double slit time to waste,
>> make DVDs, Sniper Rifiles, RPG Launchers,
>> moon rockets, and LAser(c) Printers, with them.
>>
>
> I'm can only guess what you mean, because your sentences don't make
> sense.
>
> I don't think that calling the physicists who actually developed
> lasers morons for not foreseeing the many different uses for their
> invention is justified. It works fine for the purposes they
> envisioned. I have no idea how this is related to RPGs or moon
> rockets, by the way.
>
> Furthermore, it's completely beside the point. Unless I misunderstood
> you, you wrote that lasers were invented for military purposes, when
> they actually weren't. It didn't take the military long to come up
> with military uses for them, but that's a different matter
> altogether.
>
> What exactly is your point here anyway? Are you simply making an
> argument for argument's sake?
>

zzbunker is a bot. That's why it doesn't make sense.

- nilita

[Ray O'Hara[_2_]]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> See:
>
> http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/
>

what if its foggy or misty.

[Brian Sharrock]

"Ralph_S" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 13, 3:47 pm, " >
> wrote:
>> On Sep 13, 10:38 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On 13 Sep, 12:15, " >
>> > wrote:
>>
>> > > On Sep 13, 7:09 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>>
>> > > > On 13 Sep, 05:17, wrote:
>>
>> > > > > See:
>>
>> > > > >http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/
>>
>> > > > Using a laser as a weapon really only make sense if speed is
>> > > > essential.
>>
>> > > But speed is ALWAYS essential when you're
>> > > working military idiots and the only thing they
>> > > know about EM is RADAR directors.
>> > > So that's why we even invented LASERS.
>>
>> > I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
>> > .
>> > Lasers are not particularly good at destroying anything. They're
>> > hugely inefficient. If you want to kill somebody, use a bullet. If you
>> > want to destroy a bridge, use explosives. If you want to kill a
>> > projectile coming towards you at more than mach 1, then a laser makes
>> > sense, because it arrives at its target almost instantaneously.
>>
>> > Apart from the laser-armed AC-130 idea that's floating around, most
>> > uses of lasers as weapons that are under development or proposed deal
>> > with some form of missile defense, where speed is more important than
>> > efficiency.
>>
>> > Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>> > alone a military one,
>>
>> The Lasers you are talking about physics morons
>> and mental defect laboraties.
>> The people who more than an infintie amount
>> of moron double slit time to waste,
>> make DVDs, Sniper Rifiles, RPG Launchers,
>> moon rockets, and LAser(c) Printers, with them.
>>
>
> I'm can only guess what you mean, because your sentences don't make
> sense.

zzz****** is a 'bot intended to demonstrate the Turing Test. It seems to
parse your sentence , rearrange any nouns, throw in an extract from a
thesaurus and regurgitate your snetence with some random insult ... to
perhaps invoke another response from you? It seems to become acive when a
new season of academic funding is released.

>
> I don't think that calling the physicists who actually developed
> lasers morons for not foreseeing the many different uses for their
> invention is justified. It works fine for the purposes they
> envisioned. I have no idea how this is related to RPGs or moon
> rockets, by the way.
>
> Furthermore, it's completely beside the point. Unless I misunderstood
> you, you wrote that lasers were invented for military purposes, when
> they actually weren't. It didn't take the military long to come up
> with military uses for them, but that's a different matter
> altogether.
>
> What exactly is your point here anyway? Are you simply making an
> argument for argument's sake?
>
> Ralph

>
zzz***** is attempting to 'engage' in conversation; your responses will help
the nutter-programmers to tweek it's algorithm - even as it 'tweeks' you.

--

Brian

[Yeff]

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:47:12 -0700, wrote:

> The Lasers you are talking about physics morons
> and mental defect laboraties.
> The people who more than an infintie amount
> of moron double slit time to waste,
> make DVDs, Sniper Rifiles, RPG Launchers,
> moon rockets, and LAser(c) Printers, with them.

Yes, I'll have the blue cheese dressing with my word salad...

--

-Jeff B.
zoomie at fastmail fm

[John Keeney]

On Sep 13, 11:34 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
> On Sep 13, 3:47 pm, " >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 13, 10:38 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>
> > > On 13 Sep, 12:15, " >
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > On Sep 13, 7:09 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>
> > > > > On 13 Sep, 05:17, wrote:
>
> > > > > > See:
>
> > > > > >http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/
>
> > > > > Using a laser as a weapon really only make sense if speed is
> > > > > essential.
>
> > > > But speed is ALWAYS essential when you're
> > > > working military idiots and the only thing they
> > > > know about EM is RADAR directors.
> > > > So that's why we even invented LASERS.
>
> > > I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
> > > .
> > > Lasers are not particularly good at destroying anything. They're
> > > hugely inefficient. If you want to kill somebody, use a bullet. If you
> > > want to destroy a bridge, use explosives. If you want to kill a
> > > projectile coming towards you at more than mach 1, then a laser makes
> > > sense, because it arrives at its target almost instantaneously.
>
> > > Apart from the laser-armed AC-130 idea that's floating around, most
> > > uses of lasers as weapons that are under development or proposed deal
> > > with some form of missile defense, where speed is more important than
> > > efficiency.
>
> > > Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> > > alone a military one,
>
> > The Lasers you are talking about physics morons
> > and mental defect laboraties.
> > The people who more than an infintie amount
> > of moron double slit time to waste,
> > make DVDs, Sniper Rifiles, RPG Launchers,
> > moon rockets, and LAser(c) Printers, with them.
>
> I'm can only guess what you mean, because your sentences don't make
> sense.

Best guess is those sentences mean he's dead drunk or stoned out of
his mind.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 13, 11:35 am, "La N" > wrote:
> "Ralph_S" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 13, 3:47 pm, " >
> > wrote:
> >> On Sep 13, 10:38 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>
> >> > On 13 Sep, 12:15, " >
> >> > wrote:
>
> >> > > On Sep 13, 7:09 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>
> >> > > > On 13 Sep, 05:17, wrote:
>
> >> > > > > See:
>
> >> > > > >http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/
>
> >> > > > Using a laser as a weapon really only make sense if speed is
> >> > > > essential.
>
> >> > > But speed is ALWAYS essential when you're
> >> > > working military idiots and the only thing they
> >> > > know about EM is RADAR directors.
> >> > > So that's why we even invented LASERS.
>
> >> > I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
> >> > .
> >> > Lasers are not particularly good at destroying anything. They're
> >> > hugely inefficient. If you want to kill somebody, use a bullet. If you
> >> > want to destroy a bridge, use explosives. If you want to kill a
> >> > projectile coming towards you at more than mach 1, then a laser makes
> >> > sense, because it arrives at its target almost instantaneously.
>
> >> > Apart from the laser-armed AC-130 idea that's floating around, most
> >> > uses of lasers as weapons that are under development or proposed deal
> >> > with some form of missile defense, where speed is more important than
> >> > efficiency.
>
> >> > Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> >> > alone a military one,
>
> >> The Lasers you are talking about physics morons
> >> and mental defect laboraties.
> >> The people who more than an infintie amount
> >> of moron double slit time to waste,
> >> make DVDs, Sniper Rifiles, RPG Launchers,
> >> moon rockets, and LAser(c) Printers, with them.
>
> > I'm can only guess what you mean, because your sentences don't make
> > sense.
>
> > I don't think that calling the physicists who actually developed
> > lasers morons for not foreseeing the many different uses for their
> > invention is justified. It works fine for the purposes they
> > envisioned. I have no idea how this is related to RPGs or moon
> > rockets, by the way.
>
> > Furthermore, it's completely beside the point. Unless I misunderstood
> > you, you wrote that lasers were invented for military purposes, when
> > they actually weren't. It didn't take the military long to come up
> > with military uses for them, but that's a different matter
> > altogether.
>
> > What exactly is your point here anyway? Are you simply making an
> > argument for argument's sake?
>
> zzbunkeris a bot. That's why it doesn't make sense.

Well, that not's really the problem.
The robot is the first new invention to penetarte
the moron military since the hammer was invented:
and they can't deal with it,
Since they're all morons: history's thumb-nail
rejects in the ranks of engineering.



> - nilita- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[[email protected]]

> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
> interferometry.
>
> Cheers,
> Ralph- Hide quoted text -

Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.

The Germans also investigated X-ray and Gamma ray weapons under Dr.
Scheibold for use against bomber aircraft but could only attain a
height of 15,000 ft with one test gun. It featured a large surface
anode. A dose of 7 rads per second at a distance of 5 km with a time
on target of 30 seconds, which was achievable with this weapon, was
considered adequate to inflict irreversible biological harm to the
crew of the aircraft. Due to time on target problems and a "scattering
effect" on the aircraft metal skin, the weapon was not adopted for
production.

~ Henry Stevens, "Hitler's Suppressed and Still-Secret Weapons,
Science, and Technololgy.

Restricted Report dated July 19,1944:

"Concerning the possibility of biological effects of short wave x-
rays, respectively, gamma rays from x-ray tubes of special
construction at great distance" (translated from German to English
postwar). It was addressed to the research effort of the Reich
Ministry of Aeronautics, directed to Dr. Georgil at Research
Installation Gross Ostheim.

Three prototype guns were built but only one worked properly.

Yet talk of Star Wars SDI X-Ray weapons during the Reagan
Administration and other beam developments today are not "new" at all.
The miracle modern weapons from the 1980s to the 2010 timeframe are
only classified German types that have come to maturity with advances
in materials and military design over 60 years

ZXY.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 7:06 am, " >
wrote:
> On Sep 13, 11:35 am, "La N" > wrote:
>
> > "Ralph_S" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > > On Sep 13, 3:47 pm, " >
> > > wrote:
> > >> On Sep 13, 10:38 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>
> > >> > On 13 Sep, 12:15, " >
> > >> > wrote:
>
> > >> > > On Sep 13, 7:09 am, Ralph_S > wrote:
>
> > >> > > > On 13 Sep, 05:17, wrote:
>
> > >> > > > > See:
>
> > >> > > > >http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/a-laser-phalanx-03783/
>
> > >> > > > Using a laser as a weapon really only make sense if speed is
> > >> > > > essential.
>
> > >> > > But speed is ALWAYS essential when you're
> > >> > > working military idiots and the only thing they
> > >> > > know about EM is RADAR directors.
> > >> > > So that's why we even invented LASERS.
>
> > >> > I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
> > >> > .
> > >> > Lasers are not particularly good at destroying anything. They're
> > >> > hugely inefficient. If you want to kill somebody, use a bullet. If you
> > >> > want to destroy a bridge, use explosives. If you want to kill a
> > >> > projectile coming towards you at more than mach 1, then a laser makes
> > >> > sense, because it arrives at its target almost instantaneously.
>
> > >> > Apart from the laser-armed AC-130 idea that's floating around, most
> > >> > uses of lasers as weapons that are under development or proposed deal
> > >> > with some form of missile defense, where speed is more important than
> > >> > efficiency.
>
> > >> > Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> > >> > alone a military one,
>
> > >> The Lasers you are talking about physics morons
> > >> and mental defect laboraties.
> > >> The people who more than an infintie amount
> > >> of moron double slit time to waste,
> > >> make DVDs, Sniper Rifiles, RPG Launchers,
> > >> moon rockets, and LAser(c) Printers, with them.
>
> > > I'm can only guess what you mean, because your sentences don't make
> > > sense.
>
> > > I don't think that calling the physicists who actually developed
> > > lasers morons for not foreseeing the many different uses for their
> > > invention is justified. It works fine for the purposes they
> > > envisioned. I have no idea how this is related to RPGs or moon
> > > rockets, by the way.
>
> > > Furthermore, it's completely beside the point. Unless I misunderstood
> > > you, you wrote that lasers were invented for military purposes, when
> > > they actually weren't. It didn't take the military long to come up
> > > with military uses for them, but that's a different matter
> > > altogether.
>
> > > What exactly is your point here anyway? Are you simply making an
> > > argument for argument's sake?
>
> > zzbunkeris a bot. That's why it doesn't make sense.
>
> Well, that not's really the problem.
> The robot is the first new invention to penetarte
> the moron military since the hammer was invented:
> and they can't deal with it,
> Since they're all morons: history's thumb-nail
> rejects in the ranks of engineering.> - nilita- Hide quoted text -

Or a better quote for military morons is:

"He who is a slave to history is not only condemmed to repeat
it,
but also to teach it".





>
> > - Show quoted text -

[Vince]

wrote:
>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>> interferometry.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>
> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.

source on lasers in germany in WWII?

Vince

[William Black[_1_]]

"Vince" > wrote in message
. ..
> wrote:
>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>> interferometry.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>
> source on lasers in germany in WWII?
>

Look Vince the text is so obviously the work of a deranged mind that it's
not even worth querying.

Watson-Watt rejected the 'death ray' idea in about 1934, interestingly
after rumours of a German device...

Nobody even built a Maser until after 1950, never mind a laser.

Forget it, it's just more Internet conspiracy rubbish.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

[Greg Hennessy]

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:29:48 -0700, wrote:

>
>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>> interferometry.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>
>Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>
[snip utter ********]

Ardnut is off his pills again.......
--
?¡aah, los gringos otra vez!?

[Dan[_2_]]

Vince wrote:
> wrote:
>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>> interferometry.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>
> source on lasers in germany in WWII?
>
> Vince
>
Don't ask, he will link you to his own site. He's good at fiction.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[Vince]

William Black wrote:
> "Vince" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> wrote:
>>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>>> interferometry.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>> source on lasers in germany in WWII?
>>
>
> Look Vince the text is so obviously the work of a deranged mind that it's
> not even worth querying.
>
> Watson-Watt rejected the 'death ray' idea in about 1934, interestingly
> after rumours of a German device...
>
> Nobody even built a Maser until after 1950, never mind a laser.
>
> Forget it, it's just more Internet conspiracy rubbish.
>

I fully agree. My Father in law was student of Lamb's at Columbia and
knew Gould and all the other laser pioneers.(Gould was a student of
Kusch who shared the 1955 Nobel prize with Lamb) Ed actually took the
first photograph made with a laser

I was just assuming it was a mistranslation of the source

Vince

Vince

[Dan[_2_]]

Greg Hennessy wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:29:48 -0700, wrote:
>
>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>> interferometry.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>>
> [snip utter ********]
>
> Ardnut is off his pills again.......

It's the hormone therapy in preparation for his sex change.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[La N]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> Greg Hennessy wrote:
>> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:29:48 -0700, wrote:
>>
>>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>>> interferometry.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>>>
>> [snip utter ********]
>>
>> Ardnut is off his pills again.......
>
> It's the hormone therapy in preparation for his sex change.
>
Hmmm ... I have a couple friends who have worked for Siemens in recent
years. I wonder if they have access to sooper seekrit documents .... hmmm
..... It can't be all about making cancer radiation treatment machines ....
the plot thickens ...

- nilita (if nothing else, Usenet is a great source of conspiracy theories
.... ;)

[William Black[_1_]]

"Vince" > wrote in message
...
> William Black wrote:
>> "Vince" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> wrote:
>>>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>>>> interferometry.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>>>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>>> source on lasers in germany in WWII?
>>>
>>
>> Look Vince the text is so obviously the work of a deranged mind that it's
>> not even worth querying.
>>
>> Watson-Watt rejected the 'death ray' idea in about 1934, interestingly
>> after rumours of a German device...
>>
>> Nobody even built a Maser until after 1950, never mind a laser.
>>
>> Forget it, it's just more Internet conspiracy rubbish.
>>
>
> I fully agree. My Father in law was student of Lamb's at Columbia and
> knew Gould and all the other laser pioneers.(Gould was a student of Kusch
> who shared the 1955 Nobel prize with Lamb) Ed actually took the first
> photograph made with a laser
>
> I was just assuming it was a mistranslation of the source

This is the Internet.

Never assume it's a simple mistake if there's the possibility of lunacy...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

[Dan[_2_]]

La N wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Greg Hennessy wrote:
>>> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:29:48 -0700, wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>>>> interferometry.
>>>>>
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>>>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>>>>
>>> [snip utter ********]
>>>
>>> Ardnut is off his pills again.......
>> It's the hormone therapy in preparation for his sex change.
>>
> Hmmm ... I have a couple friends who have worked for Siemens in recent
> years. I wonder if they have access to sooper seekrit documents .... hmmm
> .... It can't be all about making cancer radiation treatment machines ....
> the plot thickens ...
>
> - nilita (if nothing else, Usenet is a great source of conspiracy theories
> ... ;)
>
>
I have finalized my Unified Conspiracy Theory. It seems everyone in
the world is part of the conspiracy except me and they are all out to
get me.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[La N]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> La N wrote:
>> "Dan" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Greg Hennessy wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:29:48 -0700, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>>>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>>>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>>>>> interferometry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>>>>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>>>>>
>>>> [snip utter ********]
>>>>
>>>> Ardnut is off his pills again.......
>>> It's the hormone therapy in preparation for his sex change.
>>>
>> Hmmm ... I have a couple friends who have worked for Siemens in recent
>> years. I wonder if they have access to sooper seekrit documents ....
>> hmmm .... It can't be all about making cancer radiation treatment
>> machines .... the plot thickens ...
>>
>> - nilita (if nothing else, Usenet is a great source of conspiracy
>> theories ... ;)
> I have finalized my Unified Conspiracy Theory. It seems everyone in the
> world is part of the conspiracy except me and they are all out to get me.
>

I think that's pretty obvious to everybody but you, Dan!

- nilita

[Andrew Chaplin]

"William Black" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Vince" > wrote in message
> ...
>> William Black wrote:
>>> "Vince" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>>>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>>>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>>>>> interferometry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>>>>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>>>> source on lasers in germany in WWII?
>>>>
>>>
>>> Look Vince the text is so obviously the work of a deranged mind that it's
>>> not even worth querying.
>>>
>>> Watson-Watt rejected the 'death ray' idea in about 1934, interestingly
>>> after rumours of a German device...
>>>
>>> Nobody even built a Maser until after 1950, never mind a laser.
>>>
>>> Forget it, it's just more Internet conspiracy rubbish.
>>>
>>
>> I fully agree. My Father in law was student of Lamb's at Columbia and knew
>> Gould and all the other laser pioneers.(Gould was a student of Kusch who
>> shared the 1955 Nobel prize with Lamb) Ed actually took the first
>> photograph made with a laser
>>
>> I was just assuming it was a mistranslation of the source
>
> This is the Internet.
>
> Never assume it's a simple mistake if there's the possibility of lunacy...

Ockham's eclectic razor?
--
Andrew Chaplin
SIT MIHI GLADIUS SICUT SANCTO MARTINO
(If you're going to e-mail me, you'll have to get "yourfinger." out.)

[Dan[_2_]]

La N wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> La N wrote:
>>> "Dan" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> Greg Hennessy wrote:
>>>>> On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:29:48 -0700, wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>>>>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>>>>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>>>>>> interferometry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>>>>>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>>>>>>
>>>>> [snip utter ********]
>>>>>
>>>>> Ardnut is off his pills again.......
>>>> It's the hormone therapy in preparation for his sex change.
>>>>
>>> Hmmm ... I have a couple friends who have worked for Siemens in recent
>>> years. I wonder if they have access to sooper seekrit documents ....
>>> hmmm .... It can't be all about making cancer radiation treatment
>>> machines .... the plot thickens ...
>>>
>>> - nilita (if nothing else, Usenet is a great source of conspiracy
>>> theories ... ;)
>> I have finalized my Unified Conspiracy Theory. It seems everyone in the
>> world is part of the conspiracy except me and they are all out to get me.
>>
>
> I think that's pretty obvious to everybody but you, Dan!
>
> - nilita
>
>
See? I knew it.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 9:17 am, Vince > wrote:
> wrote:
> >> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> >> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
> >> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
> >> interferometry.
>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>
> > Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
> > beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>
> source on lasers in germany in WWII?

The lasers that they worked on in WWII were not the
optical and fiber lasers used today. They were just modifed
X-ray equipment.

Since the lasers used today assume you know
something about digital computers and Turing machines,
rather than military morons.




>
> Vince

[Dan[_2_]]

wrote:
<snip>
>
> Since the lasers used today assume you know
> something about digital computers and Turing machines,
> rather than military morons.

Translation please?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[William Black[_1_]]

"Andrew Chaplin" > wrote in message
...
> "William Black" > wrote in message
> ...
>>
>> "Vince" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> William Black wrote:
>>>> "Vince" > wrote in message
>>>> . ..
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>>>>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>>>>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>>>>>> interferometry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>>>>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>>>>>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>>>>> source on lasers in germany in WWII?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Look Vince the text is so obviously the work of a deranged mind that
>>>> it's not even worth querying.
>>>>
>>>> Watson-Watt rejected the 'death ray' idea in about 1934, interestingly
>>>> after rumours of a German device...
>>>>
>>>> Nobody even built a Maser until after 1950, never mind a laser.
>>>>
>>>> Forget it, it's just more Internet conspiracy rubbish.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I fully agree. My Father in law was student of Lamb's at Columbia and
>>> knew Gould and all the other laser pioneers.(Gould was a student of
>>> Kusch who shared the 1955 Nobel prize with Lamb) Ed actually took the
>>> first photograph made with a laser
>>>
>>> I was just assuming it was a mistranslation of the source
>>
>> This is the Internet.
>>
>> Never assume it's a simple mistake if there's the possibility of
>> lunacy...
>
> Ockham's eclectic razor?

Ockham's laser?

More like 'the back of Ockham's knife'...


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

[La N]

"Dan" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> <snip>
>>
>> Since the lasers used today assume you know
>> something about digital computers and Turing machines,
>> rather than military morons.
>
> Translation please?
>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Dan ... Dan .... Dan .... you're still out of the loop! Always the one who
arrives late to the dance!

zzbunker is a *bot*, not a very well tuned bot, but a bot nonetheless.

I wish, btw, its programmer would fix its spellchecker.

- nilita

[Dan[_2_]]

La N wrote:
> "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
>> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> Since the lasers used today assume you know
>>> something about digital computers and Turing machines,
>>> rather than military morons.
>> Translation please?
>>
>> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> Dan ... Dan .... Dan .... you're still out of the loop! Always the one who
> arrives late to the dance!
>
> zzbunker is a *bot*, not a very well tuned bot, but a bot nonetheless.
>
> I wish, btw, its programmer would fix its spellchecker.
>
> - nilita
>
>
Ach so.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 6:17?am, Vince > wrote:
> wrote:
> >> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> >> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
> >> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
> >> interferometry.
>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>
> > Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
> > beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>
> source on lasers in germany in WWII?
>
> Vince

Interrogation Report of Karl Schnettler 6824 DTC (MIS)M.1075 dated 13
Mar 45 discussing activities at I.G. Farben, Ludwigschafen and Kaiser
Wilhelm Institute.

All documentation taken from US Government microfilm under FOIA

Section C:

Experiments

PW could add little to the information in Report 2/32.

Experiment with Rats

In the experiment of Apr 44 (See Report 2/32), PW stated that, when
the rats were bombarded by the rays, a phosphorescent glow was
observed over their bodies, lasting about a fifth of a second. PW
believed that the rats were reduced to a gaseous sodium (?) which had
been drawn into the vacuum system of the test stand.

6824 DTC (MIS)M.1075 Appendix "A"

ATOM-SMASHING LABORATORY

I.G. FARBEN/Ludwigschafen

(diagram displayed)

LEGEND

1. Recess for Electronic Tubes
2. Quartz shield
3. Focusing Area
4. Power Contact
5. POLYDRON (Y)
6. Power Cable
7. Target Stand
8. Observation and Control Station
9. Power station
10. Switch Station
11. Transformer Station

This aligns with microfilm evidence of laser testing at I.G. Farben
prersented by German researcher Fredrich Georg in his books.

Engineers that participated in these experiments mentioned in Allied
reports were Dipl-Ing Meissner, Ike, and also statements by their
advisor Eringer.

Meissner also worked on the German Magnetic Wave device
(Motorstoppmittel). Project 1217, "Investigation Into German Possible
Use Of Rays To Neutralize Allied Aircraft Motors". This weapon was
constructed by the ELEMAG Construction Company, Hildesheim, 24 Jan 44

Further testimony comes from U-boat 977 Capt. Heinz Schaeffer of a
beam weapon demonstration in Berlin just before he departed and ended-
up surrendering at Mar del Plata in Argentina

- all information from Henry Stevens "Hitler's Suppressed and Still-
Secret Weapons, Science, and Technology" (2007) filled with
declassified information

ZXY

[William Black[_1_]]

> wrote in message
ups.com...

> In the experiment of Apr 44 (See Report 2/32), PW stated that, when
> the rats were bombarded by the rays, a phosphorescent glow was
> observed over their bodies, lasting about a fifth of a second. PW
> believed that the rats were reduced to a gaseous sodium (?) which had
> been drawn into the vacuum system of the test stand.

Mad as a badger.

> - all information from Henry Stevens "Hitler's Suppressed and Still-
> Secret Weapons, Science, and Technology" (2007) filled with
> declassified information

Also the author of the astounding 'Hitler's Flying Saucers'.


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

[Ralph_S]

On Sep 15, 1:29 pm, wrote:
> > Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> > alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
> > use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
> > interferometry.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>
> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>


> The Germans also investigated X-ray and Gamma ray weapons under Dr.
> Scheibold for use against bomber aircraft but could only attain a
> height of 15,000 ft with one test gun. It featured a large surface
> anode. A dose of 7 rads per second at a distance of 5 km with a time
> on target of 30 seconds, which was achievable with this weapon, was
> considered adequate to inflict irreversible biological harm to the
> crew of the aircraft. Due to time on target problems and a "scattering
> effect" on the aircraft metal skin, the weapon was not adopted for
> production.
>
> ~ Henry Stevens, "Hitler's Suppressed and Still-Secret Weapons,
> Science, and Technololgy.
>
> Restricted Report dated July 19,1944:
>
> "Concerning the possibility of biological effects of short wave x-
> rays, respectively, gamma rays from x-ray tubes of special
> construction at great distance" (translated from German to English
> postwar). It was addressed to the research effort of the Reich
> Ministry of Aeronautics, directed to Dr. Georgil at Research
> Installation Gross Ostheim.
>
> Three prototype guns were built but only one worked properly.
>
> Yet talk of Star Wars SDI X-Ray weapons during the Reagan
> Administration and other beam developments today are not "new" at all.
> The miracle modern weapons from the 1980s to the 2010 timeframe are
> only classified German types that have come to maturity with advances
> in materials and military design over 60 years
>
> ZXY.

My word, this thread really does draw out the nutters, doesn't it? Is
that you, Robert Arndt under a new name?
Alright, even supposing that all of what you write is true (and that
is a big if) the people who developed lasers in the US, and who are
recognised as the inventors of the things didn't have military
applications in mind.

Cheers,
Ralph

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 11:16?am, "William Black" >
wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > In the experiment of Apr 44 (See Report 2/32), PW stated that, when
> > the rats were bombarded by the rays, a phosphorescent glow was
> > observed over their bodies, lasting about a fifth of a second. PW
> > believed that the rats were reduced to a gaseous sodium (?) which had
> > been drawn into the vacuum system of the test stand.
>
> Mad as a badger.
>
> > - all information from Henry Stevens "Hitler's Suppressed and Still-
> > Secret Weapons, Science, and Technology" (2007) filled with
> > declassified information
>
> Also the author of the astounding 'Hitler's Flying Saucers'.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> Time for tea.

So you do not accept US Government declassified intel documents even
when they are presented to you?

As for PW's statements on the rats, the (?) refers to a total lack of
understanding of how such a weapon could function and what the
disintegration result was. This was 1945 and neither the PW nor the
interrogators knew the technologies involved with any of these type
weapons.

Imagine yourself seeing an alien beam weapon in action and then
interrogated. How would your testimony differ from PW and what
conclusions would interrogators come to?

Also, ELEMAG's documents on construction of Magnetic Wave weapon are
all reproduced in the book along with as many declassified documents
as Stevens could get under FOIA using US terminology of German weapons
which had eluded researchers who tried in vain for six decades to use
the correct German terminology. Now that the US Govt. trick for hiding
these weapons is known, many new types of German weapons have
surfaced.

For aviation content, the enigmatic Zippermayer Pfeil arrow-wing
aircraft is finally depicted in that book along with its status in May
1945 at Lofer (hidden in the Hagen carpenter shop, 3/4s completed). It
was secretly taken back to the US and completed. Dropped from a B-29
with US markings, its potential supersonic wing was evaluated in 1947
after wind tunnel testing. There are also depictions of US Army troops
testing out Zippermayer's model catapults for the aircraft in 1945.
This was a wooden glider with a two-man cockpit that placed an arrow-
wing directly behind and above the fuselage the whole way back to the
tail. The improved wooden test version would have had a Porsche
109-005 jet engine of 1,300 lb thrust while the production metal
version would have had another Porsche turbojet of approx. 2,500 lb
st.

All very fascinating, but disposition of the aircraft after testing is
not known (rest of US files suspiciously missing).

ZXY

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 11:23?am, Ralph_S > wrote:
> On Sep 15, 1:29 pm, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> > > alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
> > > use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
> > > interferometry.
>
> > > Cheers,
> > > Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>
> > Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
> > beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>
> > The Germans also investigated X-ray and Gamma ray weapons under Dr.
> > Scheibold for use against bomber aircraft but could only attain a
> > height of 15,000 ft with one test gun. It featured a large surface
> > anode. A dose of 7 rads per second at a distance of 5 km with a time
> > on target of 30 seconds, which was achievable with this weapon, was
> > considered adequate to inflict irreversible biological harm to the
> > crew of the aircraft. Due to time on target problems and a "scattering
> > effect" on the aircraft metal skin, the weapon was not adopted for
> > production.
>
> > ~ Henry Stevens, "Hitler's Suppressed and Still-Secret Weapons,
> > Science, and Technololgy.
>
> > Restricted Report dated July 19,1944:
>
> > "Concerning the possibility of biological effects of short wave x-
> > rays, respectively, gamma rays from x-ray tubes of special
> > construction at great distance" (translated from German to English
> > postwar). It was addressed to the research effort of the Reich
> > Ministry of Aeronautics, directed to Dr. Georgil at Research
> > Installation Gross Ostheim.
>
> > Three prototype guns were built but only one worked properly.
>
> > Yet talk of Star Wars SDI X-Ray weapons during the Reagan
> > Administration and other beam developments today are not "new" at all.
> > The miracle modern weapons from the 1980s to the 2010 timeframe are
> > only classified German types that have come to maturity with advances
> > in materials and military design over 60 years
>
> > ZXY.
>
> My word, this thread really does draw out the nutters, doesn't it? Is
> that you, Robert Arndt under a new name?
> Alright, even supposing that all of what you write is true (and that
> is a big if) the people who developed lasers in the US, and who are
> recognised as the inventors of the things didn't have military
> applications in mind.
>
> Cheers,
> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Certainly no one disputes you there. Germans did not invent L.A.S.E.R.
but used the word "Strahl" instead during the war for directed energy
types.

ZXY

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 12:27 pm, Dan > wrote:
> La N wrote:
> > "Dan" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> wrote:
> >> <snip>
> >>> Since the lasers used today assume you know
> >>> something about digital computers and Turing machines,
> >>> rather than military morons.
> >> Translation please?
>
> >> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired
>
> > Dan ... Dan .... Dan .... you're still out of the loop! Always the one who
> > arrives late to the dance!
>
> > zzbunker is a *bot*, not a very well tuned bot, but a bot nonetheless.
>
> > I wish, btw, its programmer would fix its spellchecker.
>
> > - nilita
>
> Ach so.



>
> Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired- Hide quoted text -

Well, it's obvious the reason you're retired
is because the only people who use spell checkers
are The Air Force, and NASA.
Since as is well known, most of them
are global warming El Nino idiots,
rather than cruise missile types.





> - Show quoted text -

[William Black[_1_]]

> wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Sep 15, 11:16?am, "William Black" >

> So you do not accept US Government declassified intel documents even
> when they are presented to you?

Oh yes.

Point me to a URL.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 1:49?pm, "William Black" >
wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > On Sep 15, 11:16?am, "William Black" >
> > So you do not accept US Government declassified intel documents even
> > when they are presented to you?
>
> Oh yes.
>
> Point me to a URL.
>
> --
> William Black
>
> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> Time for tea.

Are you stupid or something? I gave you the entire report number. Go
through FOIA procedures like Stevens did or buy his book with the
intel copies from the microfilm printed in the book.

ZXY

[William Black[_1_]]

> wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Sep 15, 1:49?pm, "William Black" >
> wrote:
>> > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>> > On Sep 15, 11:16?am, "William Black" >
>> > So you do not accept US Government declassified intel documents even
>> > when they are presented to you?
>>
>> Oh yes.
>>
>> Point me to a URL.
>>

>
> Are you stupid or something?

So that's a 'no' then...

Look, have you any idea just how significant and important all this stuff
is?

Nobel prizes were dished out and vast sums of money spent on the fundamental
research that you and your mate claim was all done in about ten minutes, by
some Nazis in tucked away in a back room somewhere, between designing the VI
and building a flying saucer.

Next loon please...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 3:35?pm, "William Black" >
wrote:
> > wrote in message
>
> ps.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 15, 1:49?pm, "William Black" >
> > wrote:
> >> > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> >> > On Sep 15, 11:16?am, "William Black" >
> >> > So you do not accept US Government declassified intel documents even
> >> > when they are presented to you?
>
> >> Oh yes.
>
> >> Point me to a URL.
>
> > Are you stupid or something?
>
> So that's a 'no' then...
>
> Look, have you any idea just how significant and important all this stuff
> is?
>
> Nobel prizes were dished out and vast sums of money spent on the fundamental
> research that you and your mate claim was all done in about ten minutes, by
> some Nazis in tucked away in a back room somewhere, between designing the VI
> and building a flying saucer.
>
> Next loon please...
>
> --
> William Black
>
> I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
> Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
> I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
> All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
> Time for tea.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Mr.Black you are just ****ed off that you are proven wrong probably by
your own government which, btw, kept and still keeps classified German
technology documents ranging from synthetic fuel, to aviation secrets,
to beam weaponry, and spaceflight, plus the entire hidden history of
the war locked away.

You can also now locate Foo Fighters, which the USAF claimed they had
no idea what they were, under PHOO BOMBS through FOIA and dated from
1944.

Also have the inmtelligence to call a German disc a Flugscheibe or
Flugkreisel and NOT a flying saucer- a term coined in 1947 by a
reporter.

ZXY

ZXY

[La N]

"William Black" > wrote in message
...
>
> > wrote in message
> ps.com...
>> On Sep 15, 1:49?pm, "William Black" >
>> wrote:
>>> > wrote in message
>>>
>>> ups.com...
>>>
>>> > On Sep 15, 11:16?am, "William Black" >
>>> > So you do not accept US Government declassified intel documents even
>>> > when they are presented to you?
>>>
>>> Oh yes.
>>>
>>> Point me to a URL.
>>>
>
>>
>> Are you stupid or something?
>
> So that's a 'no' then...
>
> Look, have you any idea just how significant and important all this stuff
> is?
>
> Nobel prizes were dished out and vast sums of money spent on the
> fundamental research that you and your mate claim was all done in about
> ten minutes, by some Nazis in tucked away in a back room somewhere,
> between designing the VI and building a flying saucer.
>
> Next loon please...
>

Koos is due to make a re-appearance within the hour.

Ah! No, I'm wrong.

He schedules his arrival on S. African time to capture Eugene's attention.

- nilita

[Vince]

wrote:
> On Sep 15, 6:17?am, Vince > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>>> interferometry.
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>> source on lasers in germany in WWII?
>>
>> Vince
>
> Interrogation Report of Karl Schnettler 6824 DTC (MIS)M.1075 dated 13
> Mar 45 discussing activities at I.G. Farben, Ludwigschafen and Kaiser
> Wilhelm Institute.
>
> All documentation taken from US Government microfilm under FOIA
>
> Section C:
>
> Experiments
>
> PW could add little to the information in Report 2/32.
>
> Experiment with Rats
>
> In the experiment of Apr 44 (See Report 2/32), PW stated that, when
> the rats were bombarded by the rays, a phosphorescent glow was
> observed over their bodies, lasting about a fifth of a second. PW
> believed that the rats were reduced to a gaseous sodium (?) which had
> been drawn into the vacuum system of the test stand.
>
> 6824 DTC (MIS)M.1075 Appendix "A"
>
> ATOM-SMASHING LABORATORY
>
> I.G. FARBEN/Ludwigschafen
>
> (diagram displayed)
>
> LEGEND
>
> 1. Recess for Electronic Tubes
> 2. Quartz shield
> 3. Focusing Area
> 4. Power Contact
> 5. POLYDRON (Y)
> 6. Power Cable
> 7. Target Stand
> 8. Observation and Control Station
> 9. Power station
> 10. Switch Station
> 11. Transformer Station
>
> This aligns with microfilm evidence of laser testing at I.G. Farben
> prersented by German researcher Fredrich Georg in his books.
>
> Engineers that participated in these experiments mentioned in Allied
> reports were Dipl-Ing Meissner, Ike, and also statements by their
> advisor Eringer.
>
> Meissner also worked on the German Magnetic Wave device
> (Motorstoppmittel). Project 1217, "Investigation Into German Possible
> Use Of Rays To Neutralize Allied Aircraft Motors". This weapon was
> constructed by the ELEMAG Construction Company, Hildesheim, 24 Jan 44
>
> Further testimony comes from U-boat 977 Capt. Heinz Schaeffer of a
> beam weapon demonstration in Berlin just before he departed and ended-
> up surrendering at Mar del Plata in Argentina
>
> - all information from Henry Stevens "Hitler's Suppressed and Still-
> Secret Weapons, Science, and Technology" (2007) filled with
> declassified information
>
> ZXY
>


none of which in any way describes a laser


Vince

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 3:59?pm, Vince > wrote:
> wrote:
> > On Sep 15, 6:17?am, Vince > wrote:
> >> wrote:
> >>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
> >>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
> >>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
> >>>> interferometry.
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
> >>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
> >>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
> >> source on lasers in germany in WWII?
>
> >> Vince
>
> > Interrogation Report of Karl Schnettler 6824 DTC (MIS)M.1075 dated 13
> > Mar 45 discussing activities at I.G. Farben, Ludwigschafen and Kaiser
> > Wilhelm Institute.
>
> > All documentation taken from US Government microfilm under FOIA
>
> > Section C:
>
> > Experiments
>
> > PW could add little to the information in Report 2/32.
>
> > Experiment with Rats
>
> > In the experiment of Apr 44 (See Report 2/32), PW stated that, when
> > the rats were bombarded by the rays, a phosphorescent glow was
> > observed over their bodies, lasting about a fifth of a second. PW
> > believed that the rats were reduced to a gaseous sodium (?) which had
> > been drawn into the vacuum system of the test stand.
>
> > 6824 DTC (MIS)M.1075 Appendix "A"
>
> > ATOM-SMASHING LABORATORY
>
> > I.G. FARBEN/Ludwigschafen
>
> > (diagram displayed)
>
> > LEGEND
>
> > 1. Recess for Electronic Tubes
> > 2. Quartz shield
> > 3. Focusing Area
> > 4. Power Contact
> > 5. POLYDRON (Y)
> > 6. Power Cable
> > 7. Target Stand
> > 8. Observation and Control Station
> > 9. Power station
> > 10. Switch Station
> > 11. Transformer Station
>
> > This aligns with microfilm evidence of laser testing at I.G. Farben
> > prersented by German researcher Fredrich Georg in his books.
>
> > Engineers that participated in these experiments mentioned in Allied
> > reports were Dipl-Ing Meissner, Ike, and also statements by their
> > advisor Eringer.
>
> > Meissner also worked on the German Magnetic Wave device
> > (Motorstoppmittel). Project 1217, "Investigation Into German Possible
> > Use Of Rays To Neutralize Allied Aircraft Motors". This weapon was
> > constructed by the ELEMAG Construction Company, Hildesheim, 24 Jan 44
>
> > Further testimony comes from U-boat 977 Capt. Heinz Schaeffer of a
> > beam weapon demonstration in Berlin just before he departed and ended-
> > up surrendering at Mar del Plata in Argentina
>
> > - all information from Henry Stevens "Hitler's Suppressed and Still-
> > Secret Weapons, Science, and Technology" (2007) filled with
> > declassified information
>
> > ZXY
>
> none of which in any way describes a laser
>
> Vince- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

What other type of beam weaponry are you suggesting for
disintegration?

Curious???

ZXY

[Dan[_2_]]

wrote:
> On Sep 15, 3:59?pm, Vince > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> On Sep 15, 6:17?am, Vince > wrote:
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Lasers weren't developed with any particular purpose in mind, let
>>>>>> alone a military one, but the people who developed them mainly saw a
>>>>>> use for them in experimental physics for use in spectroscopy and
>>>>>> interferometry.
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Ralph- Hide quoted text -
>>>>> Yes they were. Siemens and I.G.Farben worked on medical lasers and
>>>>> beam weaponry during World War II, for those specific purposes.
>>>> source on lasers in germany in WWII?
>>>> Vince
>>> Interrogation Report of Karl Schnettler 6824 DTC (MIS)M.1075 dated 13
>>> Mar 45 discussing activities at I.G. Farben, Ludwigschafen and Kaiser
>>> Wilhelm Institute.
>>> All documentation taken from US Government microfilm under FOIA
>>> Section C:
>>> Experiments
>>> PW could add little to the information in Report 2/32.
>>> Experiment with Rats
>>> In the experiment of Apr 44 (See Report 2/32), PW stated that, when
>>> the rats were bombarded by the rays, a phosphorescent glow was
>>> observed over their bodies, lasting about a fifth of a second. PW
>>> believed that the rats were reduced to a gaseous sodium (?) which had
>>> been drawn into the vacuum system of the test stand.
>>> 6824 DTC (MIS)M.1075 Appendix "A"
>>> ATOM-SMASHING LABORATORY
>>> I.G. FARBEN/Ludwigschafen
>>> (diagram displayed)
>>> LEGEND
>>> 1. Recess for Electronic Tubes
>>> 2. Quartz shield
>>> 3. Focusing Area
>>> 4. Power Contact
>>> 5. POLYDRON (Y)
>>> 6. Power Cable
>>> 7. Target Stand
>>> 8. Observation and Control Station
>>> 9. Power station
>>> 10. Switch Station
>>> 11. Transformer Station
>>> This aligns with microfilm evidence of laser testing at I.G. Farben
>>> prersented by German researcher Fredrich Georg in his books.
>>> Engineers that participated in these experiments mentioned in Allied
>>> reports were Dipl-Ing Meissner, Ike, and also statements by their
>>> advisor Eringer.
>>> Meissner also worked on the German Magnetic Wave device
>>> (Motorstoppmittel). Project 1217, "Investigation Into German Possible
>>> Use Of Rays To Neutralize Allied Aircraft Motors". This weapon was
>>> constructed by the ELEMAG Construction Company, Hildesheim, 24 Jan 44
>>> Further testimony comes from U-boat 977 Capt. Heinz Schaeffer of a
>>> beam weapon demonstration in Berlin just before he departed and ended-
>>> up surrendering at Mar del Plata in Argentina
>>> - all information from Henry Stevens "Hitler's Suppressed and Still-
>>> Secret Weapons, Science, and Technology" (2007) filled with
>>> declassified information
>>> ZXY
>> none of which in any way describes a laser
>>
>> Vince- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> What other type of beam weaponry are you suggesting for
> disintegration?
>
> Curious???
>
> ZXY
>
Lasers do not "disintegrate" anything. They can cut or burn, though.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

[William Black[_1_]]

> wrote in message
ps.com...

> Mr.Black you are just ****ed off that you are proven wrong probably by
> your own government which, btw, kept and still keeps classified German
> technology documents ranging from synthetic fuel, to aviation secrets,
> to beam weaponry, and spaceflight, plus the entire hidden history of
> the war locked away.

No they don't.

Very few WWII documents are still secret in the UK and these relate almost
entirly to matters involving treason or disloyalty by people still alive.

If the Nazis had a death ray mounted on a flying saucer, even one, we'd all
be speaking German and wearing silly uniforms by now.

> You can also now locate Foo Fighters, which the USAF claimed they had
> no idea what they were, under PHOO BOMBS through FOIA and dated from
> 1944.

The major problem with this one is that the Germans were also designing what
seem to be massivly inferior missile based air to air weapons and deploying
them very late in the war.

If you've got a war winning design then why bother to develop something
inferior?

The history of the R4M indicates that there was nothing better available.

Reading the report "An Evalualtion of German Capabilities in 1945" from the
'Office of the Director of Intelligence' of the US Strategic Airforces in
Europe, which was written some time in early 1945, makes it pretty clear
that what were called Phoo Bombs by bomber crews were in fact Messerschnitt
Me163 Komet aircraft

> Also have the inmtelligence to call a German disc a Flugscheibe or
> Flugkreisel and NOT a flying saucer- a term coined in 1947 by a
> reporter.

The problem is, once more, that both the Germans and the USA were building
'flying wings'.

The Ho-IX was a jet powered fighter bomber aircraft (made of wood) but was
preceded by the Northrop N-1M by some four years.

The 'flying wing' idea isn't new either.

See
http://www.century-of-flight.net/Aviation%20history/flying%20wings/europe_interwar.htm
for loads of details.

These damn things aren't a Nazi invention, were never particularly secret
and aren't that radical in performance. Look up the 'Edwards' who the
'Edwards Airforce Base' is named after and what he was flying when he
died...

What you're seeing is initial evaluations by an intelligence service that is
trying to guess what's going on 'on the other side of the hill' from reports
brought back be people in a highly emotional state who weren't intelligence
officers, and, reasonably understandably, slightly misinterpreting the
results.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

[The Horny Goat]

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:09:16 +0100, "William Black"
> wrote:

>Very few WWII documents are still secret in the UK and these relate almost
>entirly to matters involving treason or disloyalty by people still alive.

Has HM Government actually come out and said this sometime in the past
decade?

I'd be interested in your views on what might still be considered
secret other than that now - I would presume this was altered by the
events of 1991 and their aftermath.

Have the documents referred to by Tolstoy (in The Last Secret)
concerning the children of Russian nationals who were NOT Soviet
citizens but were nonetheless deported to the Soviet Union (usually to
either immediate execution or long stretches in labor camps which
often amounted to the same thing) by both Britain and the United
States ever been declassified?

[William Black[_1_]]

"The Horny Goat" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 13:09:16 +0100, "William Black"
> > wrote:
>
>>Very few WWII documents are still secret in the UK and these relate almost
>>entirly to matters involving treason or disloyalty by people still alive.
>
> Has HM Government actually come out and said this sometime in the past
> decade?

2005 I seem to remember.

Sixty years after the end of the war.

All the files retained are now in the Public Record Officeand are numbered

Something like sixty files are not available to the public.

> I'd be interested in your views on what might still be considered
> secret other than that now - I would presume this was altered by the
> events of 1991 and their aftermath.

I believe that, amongst others, the files relating to two officers in the
Italian navy are still not available and the investigation by Anthony Blunt,
who was working for MI-5 at the time, into the relations between the late
Duke of Winsor and Nazi Germany is still secret.

One of the Italian officers was, the last time I heard, campaigning for his
file to be released as he was supposed to have been seduced in the USA when
he was the Italian Naval Atache there, and Italian naval cyphers stolen, or
at least the key to the safe where they were stored were stolen, by his
girlfriend.

He's almost certsainly innocent of anything and the whole story was a
fabrication to cover up the intercepts and decrypts that let to The Battle
of Cape Matapan, but as he's alive they won't release the file...

> Have the documents referred to by Tolstoy (in The Last Secret)
> concerning the children of Russian nationals who were NOT Soviet
> citizens but were nonetheless deported to the Soviet Union (usually to
> either immediate execution or long stretches in labor camps which
> often amounted to the same thing) by both Britain and the United
> States ever been declassified?

All the Don Cossack and similar stuff held by the UK was released years ago,
HMG did withdraw some in 1991 when they were hanging Tolstoy and a crooked
property developer called Watts out to dry, but it's all back on the shelf
now.

Thatcher unveiled a memorial to them over twenty-five years ago, it's
across the road from the Natural History Museum.

No idea about the US stuff but I think all the US files from WWII have now
been released.

Tolstoy's book wasn't called 'The Last Secret', that's a term used by well
know Nazi sympathiser and holocaust denier David Irvine.

Tolstoy's book, the one that got him sued, was 'The Minister and the
Massacres'

It didn't actually get him sued either. Watts was passing out nasty
leaflets that used Tolstoy's book as a source and when he got sued Tolstoy
decided to get himself named as 'co defendant' along with Watts who'd tried
to destroy Lord Aldington's life.

The whole sordid story is related here.

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/politicsobituaries/story/0,1441,563440,00.html

Now I'm not a man who would normally defend a Tory banker, but it seems to
me that Tolstoy was on the wrong side and got what he richly deserved.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

[The Horny Goat]

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:40:35 +0100, "William Black"
> wrote:

>> Has HM Government actually come out and said this sometime in the past
>> decade?
>
>2005 I seem to remember.
>
>Sixty years after the end of the war.
>
>All the files retained are now in the Public Record Officeand are numbered
>
>Something like sixty files are not available to the public.
>> Have the documents referred to by Tolstoy (in The Last Secret)
>> concerning the children of Russian nationals who were NOT Soviet
>> citizens but were nonetheless deported to the Soviet Union (usually to
>> either immediate execution or long stretches in labor camps which
>> often amounted to the same thing) by both Britain and the United
>> States ever been declassified?
>
>All the Don Cossack and similar stuff held by the UK was released years ago,
>HMG did withdraw some in 1991 when they were hanging Tolstoy and a crooked
>property developer called Watts out to dry, but it's all back on the shelf
>now.
>
>Thatcher unveiled a memorial to them over twenty-five years ago, it's
>across the road from the Natural History Museum.
>
>No idea about the US stuff but I think all the US files from WWII have now
>been released.
>
>Tolstoy's book wasn't called 'The Last Secret', that's a term used by well
>know Nazi sympathiser and holocaust denier David Irvine.
>
>Tolstoy's book, the one that got him sued, was 'The Minister and the
>Massacres'

Hmmmm. I could have sworn that was the title. My copy (which is buried
under literally close to a ton of other books) was a silver colored
Penguin edition with a Cossack on the cover. A quick check on
Penguin's site doesn't locate it (or ANYTHING by any Tolstoy other
than Leo) so it's clearly out of print.

I have not to my knowledge EVER read anything by Irving except a dust
jacket so it's got to be the Minister and the Massacres.

How's that for a 'cite from Hell'?

>It didn't actually get him sued either. Watts was passing out nasty
>leaflets that used Tolstoy's book as a source and when he got sued Tolstoy
>decided to get himself named as 'co defendant' along with Watts who'd tried
>to destroy Lord Aldington's life.
>
>The whole sordid story is related here.
>
>http://politics.guardian.co.uk/politicsobituaries/story/0,1441,563440,00.html
>
>Now I'm not a man who would normally defend a Tory banker, but it seems to
>me that Tolstoy was on the wrong side and got what he richly deserved.

I knew the story of his feud with Aldington and I agree with your
assessment. Any wrongdoing was at a considerably higher level than
Aldington - probably Churchill himself at Yalta.

Thanks for the info.

[William Black[_1_]]

"The Horny Goat" > wrote in message
...

> I knew the story of his feud with Aldington and I agree with your
> assessment. Any wrongdoing was at a considerably higher level than
> Aldington - probably Churchill himself at Yalta.

A deal was done by the Allied leaders at Yalta that any traitors captured
would be handed back to the appropriate country for trial and punishment.

At the time it is likely that the British overestimated the numbers involved
on their side with intelligence assessments putting the numbers in hundreds
rather than the dozen or so that actually turned traitor.

A number of British traitors were handed back or captured and some were
certainly executed and others got long prison sentences. It is interesting
to note that the Russians refrained from shooting British SS men out of
hand, as was their normal practice for most SS men they caught. One was in
a Soviet jail for five or six years as they preferred to believe he was a
British spy rather than an SS man.

At the end of the war the USA seems to have made little or no attempt to
bring the members of the American Free Corps to justice, with the notable
exception of Martin Monti, who didn't get out of jail until 1960.

I'm much more interested in why a character called Douglas Berneville-Claye
was up to between being captured in 1942 and turning up in Berlin in March
1945 in an SS captain's uniform.

He was a real traitor, but nobody knows much about him except that at the
end of the war he was an SS captain and was certainly captured and was
promptly allowed to rejoin the army...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1898942.stm


--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.

[The Horny Goat]

On Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:20:11 +0100, "William Black"
> wrote:

>
>"The Horny Goat" > wrote in message
...
>
>> I knew the story of his feud with Aldington and I agree with your
>> assessment. Any wrongdoing was at a considerably higher level than
>> Aldington - probably Churchill himself at Yalta.
>
>A deal was done by the Allied leaders at Yalta that any traitors captured
>would be handed back to the appropriate country for trial and punishment.

I know that - the war crime in my eyes was not what happened to the
pre-war Soviet citizens but rather to the children of the 1917-21
White emigres who had (a) never lived in Russia / Soviet Union nor (b)
held Soviet citizenshp.

These people NEVER OWED ALLEGIANCE in any way shape or form to the
Soviet Union - but were handed over to Stalin with the rest of the
Vlasovites.

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the Soviet conscripts who didn't want to
return to Russia but at least de jure they were Soviet citizens who
owed some allegiance to an appalling regime.

I have less patience to the non-Soviet citizens who were shipped to
Russia against their will and against all standards of international
decency and justice. I understand that given conditions in April -
June 1945 sorting out Soviet from non-Soviet citizens might have been
difficult given that the Soviet citizens had extreme reasons to lose
their passports and other documents.

>A number of British traitors were handed back or captured and some were
>certainly executed and others got long prison sentences. It is interesting
>to note that the Russians refrained from shooting British SS men out of
>hand, as was their normal practice for most SS men they caught. One was in
>a Soviet jail for five or six years as they preferred to believe he was a
>British spy rather than an SS man.

In their world that's clearly a more likely reason for being in SS
uniform than fascistic convictions. I would tend to make the same
assumption until I knew otherwise.

>At the end of the war the USA seems to have made little or no attempt to
>bring the members of the American Free Corps to justice, with the notable
>exception of Martin Monti, who didn't get out of jail until 1960.
>
>I'm much more interested in why a character called Douglas Berneville-Claye
>was up to between being captured in 1942 and turning up in Berlin in March
>1945 in an SS captain's uniform.
>
>He was a real traitor, but nobody knows much about him except that at the
>end of the war he was an SS captain and was certainly captured and was
>promptly allowed to rejoin the army...
>
>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1898942.stm

Certainly the evidence seems clear that not all the ex-Nazis in the
French Foreign Legion in the 40s and 50s were Germans...

[Charlie Springer]

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 05:29:48 -0700, wrote
(in article om>):

> Yet talk of Star Wars SDI X-Ray weapons during the Reagan
> Administration and other beam developments today are not "new" at all.
> The miracle modern weapons from the 1980s to the 2010 timeframe are
> only classified German types that have come to maturity with advances
> in materials and military design over 60 years

Easy to confuse an X-ray tube with a GRASER if you are ignorant enough I
suppose. Why not give the date of the first MASER since it pre-dates the
LASER?

-- Charlie Springer