PHOTOS FROM INSIDE IRAN

[[email protected]]

http://www.lucasgray.com/video/peacetrain.html

[WhoGivesAFig?]

wrote:
> http://www.lucasgray.com/video/peacetrain.html
>


This huggey feeley makes me all warm and fuzzy but..........
The President of Iran is threatening the existence of Israel
They have family's and children also
It's not the people of Iran that need to go
It's the radical mullah theocracy that has to go
Don't bomb the people
Bomb the Radical Government and the Nuke plants


http://www.iran-press-service.com/ips/articles-2004/september/Executions_in_Iran.jpg

http://www.iranterror.com/

So, pull your HEAD out of your ASS

Iran is EVIL

[Ray O'Hara[_2_]]

"WhoGivesAFig?" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> > http://www.lucasgray.com/video/peacetrain.html
> >
>
>
> This huggey feeley makes me all warm and fuzzy but..........
> The President of Iran is threatening the existence of Israel
> They have family's and children also
> It's not the people of Iran that need to go
> It's the radical mullah theocracy that has to go
> Don't bomb the people
> Bomb the Radical Government and the Nuke plants
>



the israelis have nukes. they can defend their own asses.

the president of iran has very little power, the ayatollahs run the country.
the new head of the ayatollahs is a rational man.


if we bomb them they will pour into iraq, we can't control iraq now. add in
60,000,000 iranians to the fray and it only gets togher.

iran has the capacity to build a bomb. there is nothing we can do about
that. if we start bombing tham then someday they will bomb us back.

if i have to pick who gets nuked i'll pick tel aviv over new york.

why not start a third war, after all the wars in afghanistan and iraq have
been such wonderful successes right.

bombing never works without a ground occupation.

i like israel too. but i'm sick of them deciding our foreign policies.

[WhoGivesAFig?]

Cite and Proof please

the new head of the ayatollahs is a rational man.

[Ray O'Hara[_2_]]

"W. D. Allen" > wrote in message
...
> wrote:
> > http://www.lucasgray.com/video/peacetrain.html
> >
>
> These photos are all taken in NORTH Tehran. South Tehran may still be
> all mud huts with dirt floors, no water, and no electricity. North
> Tehran looked just as "elegant" under the Shah when I worked there in
1959!
>

may still be? can't you say for sure?
i can show you horrible poverty in america.

[Weatherlawyer]

On Sep 18, 2:07 pm, WhoGivesAFig? > wrote:
>
> So, pull your HEAD out of your ASS
>
> Israel is EVIL

One has to remember that if it wasn't for the Germans, there wouldn't
have been an Israel. Like fatherland like son.

[^OvO^]

Ray O'Hara wrote:
> "W. D. Allen" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.lucasgray.com/video/peacetrain.html
>>>
>>>
>> These photos are all taken in NORTH Tehran. South Tehran may still be
>> all mud huts with dirt floors, no water, and no electricity. North
>> Tehran looked just as "elegant" under the Shah when I worked there in
>>
> 1959!
>
>
> may still be? can't you say for sure?
> i can show you horrible poverty in america.
>
> http://www.standupforkids.org/
>

As seen by ^OvO^ :

(I c, U do 2) ?

http://www.standupforkids.org/
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:kkTFjULwetkJ:www.nctsnet.org/nccts/asset.do%3Fid%3D658+Homeless+children&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a

^OvO^
8-)

--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
There are none more ignorant, and useless, than those who
seek answers while on their knees, with their eyes closed!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[Fred J. McCall]

Weatherlawyer > wrote:
:
:One has to remember that if it wasn't for the Germans, there wouldn't
:have been an Israel. Like fatherland like son.
:

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to be thought stupid
by those who did.

Balfour Declaration. Look it up.


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[Vince]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> Weatherlawyer > wrote:
> :
> :One has to remember that if it wasn't for the Germans, there wouldn't
> :have been an Israel. Like fatherland like son.
> :
>
> Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to be thought stupid
> by those who did.
>
> Balfour Declaration. Look it up.
>
>


Right


UK happily giving away what didn't belong to it

Vince

[La N]

"Vince" > wrote in message
. ..
> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> Weatherlawyer > wrote:
>> :
>> :One has to remember that if it wasn't for the Germans, there wouldn't
>> :have been an Israel. Like fatherland like son.
>> :
>>
>> Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to be thought stupid
>> by those who did.
>>
>> Balfour Declaration. Look it up.
>>
>>
>
>
> Right
>
>
> UK happily giving away what didn't belong to it
>

I wasn't really familiar with the Balfour Declaration but looked it up in
Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917

Excerpt:
"In his November, 2002 interview with the New Statesman magazine, the UK
Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw blamed Britain's imperial past for many of the
modern political problems, including the Arab-Israeli conflict.[5]

"The Balfour declaration and the contradictory assurances which were being
given to Palestinians in private at the same time as they were being given
to the Israelis-again, an interesting history for us, but not an honourable
one," he said."



Anyway, it does confirm that Weatherlawyer is wrong if nothing else.



- nilita

[Fred J. McCall]

"La N" > wrote:

:
:"Vince" > wrote in message
...
:> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> Weatherlawyer > wrote:
:>> :
:>> :One has to remember that if it wasn't for the Germans, there wouldn't
:>> :have been an Israel. Like fatherland like son.
:>> :
:>>
:>> Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to be thought stupid
:>> by those who did.
:>>
:>> Balfour Declaration. Look it up.
:>>
:>
:> Right
:>
:> UK happily giving away what didn't belong to it
:>
:

Except, unfortunately for Vinnie's thesis, it sort of did. See
'Palestine Mandate'.

:
:I wasn't really familiar with the Balfour Declaration but looked it up in
:Wiki
:
:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917
:
:Excerpt:
:"In his November, 2002 interview with the New Statesman magazine, the UK
:Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw blamed Britain's imperial past for many of the
:modern political problems, including the Arab-Israeli conflict.[5]
:
:"The Balfour declaration and the contradictory assurances which were being
:given to Palestinians in private at the same time as they were being given
:to the Israelis-again, an interesting history for us, but not an honourable
:one," he said."
:

The history of the world (and particularly the Middle East) is
littered with the lies and double-dealing of the UK. This is not news
and is frequently behind modern troubles.

:
:Anyway, it does confirm that Weatherlawyer is wrong if nothing else.
:

Which was rather the point.


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[Vince]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> "La N" > wrote:
>
> : :"Vince" > wrote in message
> ... :> Fred J.
> McCall wrote: :>> Weatherlawyer > wrote:
> :>> : :>> :One has to remember that if it wasn't for the Germans,
> there wouldn't :>> :have been an Israel. Like fatherland like son.
> :>> : :>> :>> Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to be
> thought stupid :>> by those who did. :>> :>> Balfour Declaration.
> Look it up. :>> :> :> Right :> :> UK happily giving away what didn't
> belong to it :> :
>
> Except, unfortunately for Vinnie's thesis, it sort of did. See
> 'Palestine Mandate'.

check the dates son

Check the dates


Balfour declaration was 1917



" In the Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916, Britain and France had proposed
to divide the Middle East between them into spheres of influence, with
"Palestine" as an international enclave.[7] In a meeting at Deauville in
1919, David Lloyd George and Georges Clemenceau revised this agreement,
with Palestine and the Vilayet of Mosul in modern-day Iraq falling into
the British sphere in exchange for British support of French influence
in Syria and Lebanon.[8] According to historian Ilan Pappe,

"The borders of mandatory Palestine, first drawn up in the
Sykes-Picot Agreement, were given their definitive shape during lengthy
and tedious negotiations by British and French officials between 1919
and 1922...In October 1919 the British envisaged the area that is today
southern Lebanon and most of southern Syria as being part of British
mandatory Palestine...In the East, matters were more
complicated...[Transjordan] was part of the Ottoman province of Damascus
which in the Sykes-Picot agreement had been allocated to the French."[9]

At the San Remo Conference (19–26 April 1920) the Allied Supreme
Council granted the mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia to Britain
without precisely defining the boundaries of the mandated
territories.[10][11] Although the land east of the Jordan had been part
of the Syrian administrative unit under the Ottomans, it was excluded
from the French Mandate at the San Remo conference, "on the grounds that
it was part of Palestine."[12]

British victories during World War I and years of delay before formal
treaties were ratified left the bulk of this territory under British
military occupation from 1917 to 1920.

The San Remo conference was an international meeting of the post-World
War I Allied Supreme Council, held in San Remo, Italy, in 19-26 April
1920. It determined the allocation of Class "A" League of Nations
mandates for administration of the former Ottoman-ruled lands of the
Middle East.

The decisions of the conference mainly confirmed those of the First
Conference of London (February 1920), and broadly reaffirmed the terms
of the Anglo-French Sykes-Picot Agreement of 16 May 1916 for the
region's partition and the Balfour Declaration of 2 November 1917.[13]
Britain received the mandate for Palestine and Iraq, while France gained
control of Syria including present-day Lebanon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine#Borders.2C_legal_stat us.2C_and_administration_to_1923


So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give

Vince

[La N]

"Vince" > wrote in message
...
> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> "La N" > wrote:
>>
>> : :"Vince" > wrote in message
>> ... :> Fred J. McCall
>> wrote: :>> Weatherlawyer > wrote: :>> : :>>
>> :One has to remember that if it wasn't for the Germans, there wouldn't
>> :>> :have been an Israel. Like fatherland like son. :>> : :>> :>> Those
>> who fail to learn from history are doomed to be thought stupid :>> by
>> those who did. :>> :>> Balfour Declaration. Look it up. :>> :> :> Right
>> :> :> UK happily giving away what didn't
>> belong to it :> :
>>
>> Except, unfortunately for Vinnie's thesis, it sort of did. See
>> 'Palestine Mandate'.
>
> check the dates son
>
> Check the dates
>
>
> Balfour declaration was 1917
>
>
>
> " In the Sykes-Picot agreement of 1916, Britain and France had proposed
> to divide the Middle East between them into spheres of influence, with
> "Palestine" as an international enclave.[7] In a meeting at Deauville in
> 1919, David Lloyd George and Georges Clemenceau revised this agreement,
> with Palestine and the Vilayet of Mosul in modern-day Iraq falling into
> the British sphere in exchange for British support of French influence
> in Syria and Lebanon.[8] According to historian Ilan Pappe,
>
> "The borders of mandatory Palestine, first drawn up in the
> Sykes-Picot Agreement, were given their definitive shape during lengthy
> and tedious negotiations by British and French officials between 1919
> and 1922...In October 1919 the British envisaged the area that is today
> southern Lebanon and most of southern Syria as being part of British
> mandatory Palestine...In the East, matters were more
> complicated...[Transjordan] was part of the Ottoman province of Damascus
> which in the Sykes-Picot agreement had been allocated to the French."[9]
>
> At the San Remo Conference (19–26 April 1920) the Allied Supreme
> Council granted the mandates for Palestine and Mesopotamia to Britain
> without precisely defining the boundaries of the mandated
> territories.[10][11] Although the land east of the Jordan had been part
> of the Syrian administrative unit under the Ottomans, it was excluded
> from the French Mandate at the San Remo conference, "on the grounds that
> it was part of Palestine."[12]
>
> British victories during World War I and years of delay before formal
> treaties were ratified left the bulk of this territory under British
> military occupation from 1917 to 1920.
>
> The San Remo conference was an international meeting of the post-World
> War I Allied Supreme Council, held in San Remo, Italy, in 19-26 April
> 1920. It determined the allocation of Class "A" League of Nations
> mandates for administration of the former Ottoman-ruled lands of the
> Middle East.
>
> The decisions of the conference mainly confirmed those of the First
> Conference of London (February 1920), and broadly reaffirmed the terms
> of the Anglo-French Sykes-Picot Agreement of 16 May 1916 for the
> region's partition and the Balfour Declaration of 2 November 1917.[13]
> Britain received the mandate for Palestine and Iraq, while France gained
> control of Syria including present-day Lebanon.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Mandate_of_Palestine#Borders.2C_legal_stat us.2C_and_administration_to_1923
>
>
> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>
> Vince
>

Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the time.

- nilita

[Fred J. McCall]

"La N" > wrote:

:
:"Vince" > wrote in message
...
:>
:> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
:>

And yet oddly they wound up with it.

Funny how that works, don't you think?

[No, you don't, which is your problem.]

:
:Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the time.
:

Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[Vince]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> "La N" > wrote:
>
> :
> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> ...
> :>
> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
> :>
>
> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>
> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>
> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>
> :
> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the time.
> :
>
> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
>
>

It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand

you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it

Vince

[La N]

"Vince" > wrote in message
. ..
> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> "La N" > wrote:
>>
>> :
>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> :>
>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>> :>
>>
>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>>
>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>>
>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>>
>> :
>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the time.
>> :
>>
>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
>>
>>
>
> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>
> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>

But, Vince, why? oh, why?

- nilita, trying to remember days when kids played fair ... ;)

[Vince]

La N wrote:
> "Vince" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>
>>> :
>>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> :>
>>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>>> :>
>>>
>>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>>>
>>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>>>
>>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>>>
>>> :
>>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the time.
>>> :
>>>
>>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
>>>
>>>
>> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>>
>> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>>
>
> But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>
> - nilita, trying to remember days when kids played fair ... ;)
>

Sucking up to the Zionist vote and lying to everyone in sight toplay
both ends against the middle

"In his November, 2002 interview with the New Statesman magazine, the UK
Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw blamed Britain's imperial past for many of
the modern political problems, including the Arab-Israeli conflict.[5]

"The Balfour declaration and the contradictory assurances which were
being given to Palestinians in private at the same time as they were
being given to the Israelis—again, an interesting history for us, but
not an honourable one," he said.


"At that time the British were busy making promises. Henry McMahon had
exchanged letters with Hussein bin Ali, Sherif of Mecca in 1915, in
which he had promised the Arabs control of the Arab lands, exclusive of
the Mediterranean coast. The extent of the coastal exclusion is not
clear. Hussein protested that the Arabs of Beirut would greatly oppose
isolation from the Arab state or states, but did not, it seems, bring up
the matter of the Jerusalem area, which included a good part of
Palestine. This suggests either that the area of Jerusalem and Palestine
was not part of the inclusion and was promised to the Arabs, as shown in
some maps, and is believed by pro-Arab historians, or that Palestine was
included, but that Hussein did not protest. The latter version is
supported by Dr. Chaim Weizmann in his autobiography Trial and Error.
This interpretation was also convenient for the British , and was
supported explicitly by the British government in the 1922 White Paper."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917#Text_development_and_d iffering_views


Vince

[La N]

"Vince" > wrote in message
. ..
> La N wrote:
>> "Vince" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> :
>>>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> :>
>>>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>>>> :>
>>>>
>>>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>>>>
>>>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>>>>
>>>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>>>>
>>>> :
>>>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the time.
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>>>
>>> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>>>
>>
>> But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>>
>> - nilita, trying to remember days when kids played fair ... ;)
>
> Sucking up to the Zionist vote and lying to everyone in sight toplay both
> ends against the middle
>
> "In his November, 2002 interview with the New Statesman magazine, the UK
> Foreign Secretary, Jack Straw blamed Britain's imperial past for many of
> the modern political problems, including the Arab-Israeli conflict.[5]
>
> "The Balfour declaration and the contradictory assurances which were being
> given to Palestinians in private at the same time as they were being given
> to the Israelis—again, an interesting history for us, but not an
> honourable one," he said.
>
>
> "At that time the British were busy making promises. Henry McMahon had
> exchanged letters with Hussein bin Ali, Sherif of Mecca in 1915, in which
> he had promised the Arabs control of the Arab lands, exclusive of the
> Mediterranean coast. The extent of the coastal exclusion is not clear.
> Hussein protested that the Arabs of Beirut would greatly oppose isolation
> from the Arab state or states, but did not, it seems, bring up the matter
> of the Jerusalem area, which included a good part of Palestine. This
> suggests either that the area of Jerusalem and Palestine was not part of
> the inclusion and was promised to the Arabs, as shown in some maps, and is
> believed by pro-Arab historians, or that Palestine was included, but that
> Hussein did not protest. The latter version is supported by Dr. Chaim
> Weizmann in his autobiography Trial and Error. This interpretation was
> also convenient for the British , and was supported explicitly by the
> British government in the 1922 White Paper."
>
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration_of_1917#Text_development_and_d iffering_views
>
>

Well, scrolling up a few posts to TMO's article, he's implying in several
thousand words that worse things have been done than this in the world!
This is small potatoes, relatively speaking.

And, btw, speaking as a lawyer, in your humble opinion, is OJ going to get
acquitted again?

- nil

[Vince]

La N wrote:

> Well, scrolling up a few posts to TMO's article, he's implying in several
> thousand words that worse things have been done than this in the world!
> This is small potatoes, relatively speaking.
>
> And, btw, speaking as a lawyer, in your humble opinion, is OJ going to get
> acquitted again?
>
> - nil
>
>

he is an idiot

can't say

Vince -

[La N]

"Vince" > wrote in message
...
> La N wrote:
>
>> Well, scrolling up a few posts to TMO's article, he's implying in several
>> thousand words that worse things have been done than this in the world!
>> This is small potatoes, relatively speaking.
>>
>> And, btw, speaking as a lawyer, in your humble opinion, is OJ going to
>> get acquitted again?
>>
>> - nil
>
> he is an idiot
>
> can't say
>
> Vince -

He made bail via the cutesy named Las Vegas bail bond company "You Ring, We
Spring!"

You're right; he *is* an idjit.

- nilita , who can't get "don't taze me, bro!" out of her mind ... ;)

[Fred J. McCall]

"La N" > wrote:

:
:"Vince" > wrote in message
...
:> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> "La N" > wrote:
:>>
:>> :
:>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
:>> ...
:>> :>
:>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
:>> :>
:>>
:>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
:>>
:>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
:>>
:>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
:>>
:>> :
:>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the time.
:>> :
:>>
:>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
:>>
:>
:> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
:>
:> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
:>
:
:But, Vince, why? oh, why?
:

Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.

It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
thinking, particularly when drinking...


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

[Vince]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> "La N" > wrote:
>
> :
> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> ...
> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>>
> :>> :
> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> :>> ...
> :>> :>
> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
> :>> :>
> :>>
> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
> :>>
> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
> :>>
> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
> :>>
> :>> :
> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the time.
> :>> :
> :>>
> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
> :>>
> :>
> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
> :>
> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
> :>
> :
> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
> :
>
> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
>
> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
> thinking, particularly when drinking...


Note the lack of facts
When the facts get in Fred's way
He resorts to abuse

The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for themselves

Vince

[La N]

"Vince" > wrote in message
...
> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> "La N" > wrote:
>>
>> :
>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>> ...
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>> :>> :>
>> :>>
>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>> :>>
>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>> :>>
>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>> :>>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the
>> time.
>> :>> :
>> :>>
>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
>> :>>
>> :>
>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>> :>
>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>> :>
>> :
>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>> :
>>
>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
>>
>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
>
>
> Note the lack of facts
> When the facts get in Fred's way
> He resorts to abuse
>
> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for themselves
>

Time for you to put Fred in the plonker, Vince.

[Vince]

La N wrote:
> "Vince" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>
>>> :
>>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>>> :>>
>>> :>> :
>>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>>> ...
>>> :>> :>
>>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>>> :>> :>
>>> :>>
>>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>>> :>>
>>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>>> :>>
>>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>>> :>>
>>> :>> :
>>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the
>>> time.
>>> :>> :
>>> :>>
>>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
>>> :>>
>>> :>
>>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>>> :>
>>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>>> :>
>>> :
>>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>>> :
>>>
>>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
>>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
>>>
>>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
>>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
>>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
>>
>> Note the lack of facts
>> When the facts get in Fred's way
>> He resorts to abuse
>>
>> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for themselves
>>
>
> Time for you to put Fred in the plonker, Vince.
>
>
>
Oh Fred is amusing

He certainly belongs in the top 1% of Bush supporters in intelligence
and devotion to facts

Vince

[Fred J. McCall]

"La N" > wrote:

:
:"Vince" > wrote in message
...
:> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> "La N" > wrote:
:>>
:>> :
:>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
:>> ...
:>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
:>> :>>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
:>> ...
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>>
:>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
:>> :>>
:>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
:>> :>>
:>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
:>> :>>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the
:>> time.
:>> :>> :
:>> :>>
:>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
:>> :>>
:>> :>
:>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
:>> :>
:>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
:>> :>
:>> :
:>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
:>> :
:>>
:>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
:>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
:>>
:>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
:>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
:>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
:>
:>
:> Note the lack of facts
:> When the facts get in Fred's way
:> He resorts to abuse
:>
:

Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.

Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
noticing them is 'abuse'.

:
:>
:> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for themselves
:>
:

And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do with
"the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG before.

:
:Time for you to put Fred in the plonker, Vince.
:

Time for you to get over it, Nilita. But you won't, and will continue
to spend lots of your time thinking and talking about me. Poor Nilita
never matured past junior high school 'clique' level.

Ugly to the bone...


--
You are
What you do
When it counts.

[Vince]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> "La N" > wrote:
>
> :
> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> ...
> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>>
> :>> :
> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> :>> ...
> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
> :>> ...
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the
> :>> time.
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>
> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
> :>> :>
> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
> :>> :>
> :>> :
> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
> :>> :
> :>>
> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
> :>>
> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
> :>
> :>
> :> Note the lack of facts
> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
> :> He resorts to abuse
> :>
> :
>
> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
>
> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
> noticing them is 'abuse'.

Again a fine example of Bush logic
Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence

Just keep reading the dates

>
> :
> :>
> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for themselves
> :>
> :
>
> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do with
> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG before.
>

My goodness what ignorance

Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the Ottoman
empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's ally, in the
same way France expected to get territory directly from Germany etc.
The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of the
English war effort against the Germans



But dont worry

your still at the 99th percentile of
Bush Supporters


Vince

[La N]

"Vince" > wrote in message
. ..
> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> "La N" > wrote:
>>
>> :
>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>> ...
>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
>> ...
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the
>> :>> time.
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it
>> up.
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>> :>> :
>> :>>
>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
>> :>>
>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
>> :>
>> :>
>> :> Note the lack of facts
>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
>> :> He resorts to abuse
>> :>
>> :
>>
>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
>>
>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
>
> Again a fine example of Bush logic
> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
>
> Just keep reading the dates
>
>>
>> :
>> :>
>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for
>> themselves
>> :>
>> :
>>
>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do with
>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG before.
>>
>
> My goodness what ignorance
>
> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the Ottoman
> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's ally, in the
> same way France expected to get territory directly from Germany etc.
> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of the
> English war effort against the Germans

What would be the definitive book or site for this information, Vince?


- nilita

[Eugene Griessel]

"La N" > wrote:

>
>"Vince" > wrote in message
. ..
>> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>
>>> :
>>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>>> :>>
>>> :>> :
>>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>>> ...
>>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>>> :>> :>>
>>> :>> :>> :
>>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
>>> ...
>>> :>> :>> :>
>>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>>> :>> :>> :>
>>> :>> :>>
>>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>>> :>> :>>
>>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>>> :>> :>>
>>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>>> :>> :>>
>>> :>> :>> :
>>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the
>>> :>> time.
>>> :>> :>> :
>>> :>> :>>
>>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it
>>> up.
>>> :>> :>>
>>> :>> :>
>>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>>> :>> :>
>>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>>> :>> :>
>>> :>> :
>>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>>> :>> :
>>> :>>
>>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
>>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
>>> :>>
>>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
>>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
>>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
>>> :>
>>> :>
>>> :> Note the lack of facts
>>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
>>> :> He resorts to abuse
>>> :>
>>> :
>>>
>>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
>>>
>>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
>>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
>>
>> Again a fine example of Bush logic
>> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
>>
>> Just keep reading the dates
>>
>>>
>>> :
>>> :>
>>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for
>>> themselves
>>> :>
>>> :
>>>
>>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do with
>>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG before.
>>>
>>
>> My goodness what ignorance
>>
>> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the Ottoman
>> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's ally, in the
>> same way France expected to get territory directly from Germany etc.
>> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of the
>> English war effort against the Germans
>
>What would be the definitive book or site for this information, Vince?

Try Googling "Balfour declaration".

Eugene L Griessel

The only cure for insomnia is to get more sleep.

[La N]

"Eugene Griessel" > wrote in message
...
> "La N" > wrote:
>
>>
>>"Vince" > wrote in message
. ..
>>> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> :
>>>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>> :>>
>>>> :>> :
>>>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>>>> ...
>>>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>> :>> :>>
>>>> :>> :>> :
>>>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
>>>> ...
>>>> :>> :>> :>
>>>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>>>> :>> :>> :>
>>>> :>> :>>
>>>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>>>> :>> :>>
>>>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>>>> :>> :>>
>>>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>>>> :>> :>>
>>>> :>> :>> :
>>>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have
>>>> the
>>>> :>> time.
>>>> :>> :>> :
>>>> :>> :>>
>>>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess
>>>> it
>>>> up.
>>>> :>> :>>
>>>> :>> :>
>>>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>>>> :>> :>
>>>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>>>> :>> :>
>>>> :>> :
>>>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>>>> :>> :
>>>> :>>
>>>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness
>>>> for
>>>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
>>>> :>>
>>>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome
>>>> causes.
>>>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
>>>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
>>>> :>
>>>> :>
>>>> :> Note the lack of facts
>>>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
>>>> :> He resorts to abuse
>>>> :>
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
>>>>
>>>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>>>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
>>>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
>>>
>>> Again a fine example of Bush logic
>>> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
>>>
>>> Just keep reading the dates
>>>
>>>>
>>>> :
>>>> :>
>>>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for
>>>> themselves
>>>> :>
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do with
>>>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG before.
>>>>
>>>
>>> My goodness what ignorance
>>>
>>> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the Ottoman
>>> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's ally, in the
>>> same way France expected to get territory directly from Germany etc.
>>> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of the
>>> English war effort against the Germans
>>
>>What would be the definitive book or site for this information, Vince?
>
> Try Googling "Balfour declaration".

Thanks, Eugene. I have and have found a scanned copy of the original
letter:

http://www.israel.org/MFA/Peace%20Process/Guide%20to%20the%20Peace%20Process/The%20Balfour%20Declaration

So far, most of the other sites seem to imply it was a "dishonest" act, at
the very least.

>
> Eugene L Griessel

- nilita

>
> The only cure for insomnia is to get more sleep.

76.Study art and logic - learn to draw your own conclusions.

[Vince]

La N wrote:
> "Vince" > wrote in message
> . ..
>> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>
>>> : :"Vince" > wrote in message
>>> ... :> Fred J.
>>> McCall wrote: :>> "La N" > wrote: :>>
>>> :>> : :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>>> ... :>> :> Fred
>>> J. McCall wrote: :>> :>> "La N" >
>>> wrote: :>> :>> :>> :>> : :>> :>> :"Vince" >
>>> wrote in message :>> :>>
>>> ... :>> :>> :>
>>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give :>> :>> :> :>>
>>> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it. :>> :>> :>> :>>
>>> Funny how that works, don't you think? :>> :>> :>> :>> [No, you
>>> don't, which is your problem.] :>> :>> :>> :>> : :>> :>> :Thank
>>> you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the :>>
>>> time. :>> :>> : :>> :>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice.
>>> He'll almost inevitably mess it up. :>> :>> :>> :> :>> :> It's
>>> the same as a car thief stealing on demand :>> :> :>> :> you sell
>>> what you don't own, so you go out and steal it :>> :> :>> : :>>
>>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why? :>> : :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers
>>> from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for :>> drink and an
>>> unreasoning hatred of the English. :>> :>> It's the same bull****
>>> response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes. :>> Only the
>>> target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than :>>
>>> thinking, particularly when drinking... :> :> :> Note the lack of
>>> facts :> When the facts get in Fred's way :> He resorts to abuse
>>> :> :
>>>
>>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
>>>
>>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and
>>> that noticing them is 'abuse'.
>> Again a fine example of Bush logic Clearly at the 99th percentile
>> of Republican intelligence
>>
>> Just keep reading the dates
>>
>>> : :> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak
>>> for themselves :> :
>>>
>>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do
>>> with "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG
>>> before.
>>>
>> My goodness what ignorance
>>
>> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the
>> Ottoman empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's
>> ally, in the same way France expected to get territory directly
>> from Germany etc. The promise was made to thank the Zionists for
>> their support of the English war effort against the Germans
>
> What would be the definitive book or site for this information,
> Vince?
>
>
> - nilita
>
>
For a quick cite

Britannica Concise
Chaim Weizmann
born Nov. 27, 1874, Motol, Pol., Russian Empire
died Nov. 9, 1952, Reovot, Israel

Russian-born Israeli chemist and first president of Israel (1949–52).

After studying in Germany and Switzerland, he earned a doctorate in
chemistry and patented several dyestuffs before moving to England to
teach in 1904. His 1912 discovery of a bacterium that could convert
carbohydrate to acetone proved of great value to the British armaments
industry in World War I (1914–18), and in return the government aided
his negotiations for the Balfour Declaration (1917).


1916 - The secret Sykes-Picot Agreement was signed May 16 carving up
the Mideast between England and France. Weizmann had been influential in
the diplomacy leading to the agreement, insuring that Palestine would be
internationalized and later become the Zionist state. Many British Jews
opposed transferring national allegiance from Great Britain to Palestine
during wartime. Weizmann therefore urged Great Britain to publicly
support Palestine, and his greatest achievement in the Zionist movement
was the alliance with the British government that culminated in the 1917
Balfour Declaration.

http://history.sandiego.edu/GEN/ww1/weizmann.html


No Germany, no war, no cordite shortage no Zionist influence
No Balfour declaration

Vince

[Eugene Griessel]

Vince > wrote:

>La N wrote:
>> "Vince" > wrote in message
>> . ..
>>> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> : :"Vince" > wrote in message
>>>> ... :> Fred J.
>>>> McCall wrote: :>> "La N" > wrote: :>>
>>>> :>> : :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>>>> ... :>> :> Fred
>>>> J. McCall wrote: :>> :>> "La N" >
>>>> wrote: :>> :>> :>> :>> : :>> :>> :"Vince" >
>>>> wrote in message :>> :>>
>>>> ... :>> :>> :>
>>>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give :>> :>> :> :>>
>>>> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it. :>> :>> :>> :>>
>>>> Funny how that works, don't you think? :>> :>> :>> :>> [No, you
>>>> don't, which is your problem.] :>> :>> :>> :>> : :>> :>> :Thank
>>>> you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the :>>
>>>> time. :>> :>> : :>> :>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice.
>>>> He'll almost inevitably mess it up. :>> :>> :>> :> :>> :> It's
>>>> the same as a car thief stealing on demand :>> :> :>> :> you sell
>>>> what you don't own, so you go out and steal it :>> :> :>> : :>>
>>>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why? :>> : :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers
>>>> from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for :>> drink and an
>>>> unreasoning hatred of the English. :>> :>> It's the same bull****
>>>> response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes. :>> Only the
>>>> target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than :>>
>>>> thinking, particularly when drinking... :> :> :> Note the lack of
>>>> facts :> When the facts get in Fred's way :> He resorts to abuse
>>>> :> :
>>>>
>>>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
>>>>
>>>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>>>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and
>>>> that noticing them is 'abuse'.
>>> Again a fine example of Bush logic Clearly at the 99th percentile
>>> of Republican intelligence
>>>
>>> Just keep reading the dates
>>>
>>>> : :> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak
>>>> for themselves :> :
>>>>
>>>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do
>>>> with "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG
>>>> before.
>>>>
>>> My goodness what ignorance
>>>
>>> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the
>>> Ottoman empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's
>>> ally, in the same way France expected to get territory directly
>>> from Germany etc. The promise was made to thank the Zionists for
>>> their support of the English war effort against the Germans
>>
>> What would be the definitive book or site for this information,
>> Vince?
>>
>>
>> - nilita
>>
>>
>For a quick cite
>
> Britannica Concise
> Chaim Weizmann
> born Nov. 27, 1874, Motol, Pol., Russian Empire
> died Nov. 9, 1952, Reovot, Israel
>
> Russian-born Israeli chemist and first president of Israel (1949–52).
>
> After studying in Germany and Switzerland, he earned a doctorate in
>chemistry and patented several dyestuffs before moving to England to
>teach in 1904. His 1912 discovery of a bacterium that could convert
>carbohydrate to acetone proved of great value to the British armaments
>industry in World War I (1914–18), and in return the government aided
>his negotiations for the Balfour Declaration (1917).
>
>
> 1916 - The secret Sykes-Picot Agreement was signed May 16 carving up
>the Mideast between England and France. Weizmann had been influential in
>the diplomacy leading to the agreement, insuring that Palestine would be
>internationalized and later become the Zionist state. Many British Jews
>opposed transferring national allegiance from Great Britain to Palestine
>during wartime. Weizmann therefore urged Great Britain to publicly
>support Palestine, and his greatest achievement in the Zionist movement
>was the alliance with the British government that culminated in the 1917
>Balfour Declaration.
>
>http://history.sandiego.edu/GEN/ww1/weizmann.html
>
>
>No Germany, no war, no cordite shortage no Zionist influence
>No Balfour declaration

The Jews, mostly from Russia, had been moving into the area since the
1880's buying up land from largely absentee Turkish landlords
and this would have continued anyway. By the time of the annexation
of the area by the British the Jewish populace was already seriously
on the way to becoming a majority. Something which the Arabs were
very worried about - as are most people who are in danger of becoming
outnumbered by an immigrant population. It was the British who
imposed serious limits on further immigration and land purchase.

Eugene L Griessel

The only cure for insomnia is to get more sleep.

[Peter Skelton]

On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 09:20:30 -0400, Vince >
wrote:

>La N wrote:
>> "Vince" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> :
>>>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>> :>>
>>>> :>> :
>>>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>>>> ...
>>>> :>> :>
>>>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>>>> :>> :>
>>>> :>>
>>>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>>>> :>>
>>>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>>>> :>>
>>>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>>>> :>>
>>>> :>> :
>>>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the
>>>> time.
>>>> :>> :
>>>> :>>
>>>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
>>>> :>>
>>>> :>
>>>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>>>> :>
>>>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>>>> :>
>>>> :
>>>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
>>>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
>>>>
>>>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
>>>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
>>>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
>>>
>>> Note the lack of facts
>>> When the facts get in Fred's way
>>> He resorts to abuse
>>>
>>> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for themselves
>>>
>>
>> Time for you to put Fred in the plonker, Vince.
>>
>>
>>
>Oh Fred is amusing
>
>He certainly belongs in the top 1% of Bush supporters in intelligence
>and devotion to facts
>
"Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way."

Fred McCall Sept. 20, 2007







Peter Skelton

[Vince]

Eugene Griessel wrote:
> Vince > wrote:
>
>> La N wrote:
>>> "Vince" > wrote in message
>>> . ..
>>>> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>>>> "La N" > wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> : :"Vince" > wrote in message
>>>>> ... :> Fred
>>>>> J. McCall wrote: :>> "La N" >
>>>>> wrote: :>> :>> : :>> :"Vince" > wrote in
>>>>> message :>>
>>>>> ... :>> :>
>>>>> Fred J. McCall wrote: :>> :>> "La N"
>>>>> > wrote: :>> :>> :>> :>> : :>> :>>
>>>>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
>>>>> ... :>> :>>
>>>>> :> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give :>> :>>
>>>>> :> :>> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it. :>>
>>>>> :>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think? :>> :>>
>>>>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.] :>> :>> :>>
>>>>> :>> : :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on
>>>>> this when I have the :>> time. :>> :>> : :>> :>> :>> :>> Just
>>>>> don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it
>>>>> up. :>> :>> :>> :> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief
>>>>> stealing on demand :>> :> :>> :> you sell what you don't own,
>>>>> so you go out and steal it :>> :> :>> : :>> :But, Vince,
>>>>> why? oh, why? :>> : :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the
>>>>> Irish Disease - an over fondness for :>> drink and an
>>>>> unreasoning hatred of the English. :>> :>> It's the same
>>>>> bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes. :>>
>>>>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier
>>>>> than :>> thinking, particularly when drinking... :> :> :>
>>>>> Note the lack of facts :> When the facts get in Fred's way :>
>>>>> He resorts to abuse :> :
>>>>>
>>>>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
>>>>>
>>>>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>>>>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts'
>>>>> and that noticing them is 'abuse'.
>>>> Again a fine example of Bush logic Clearly at the 99th
>>>> percentile of Republican intelligence
>>>>
>>>> Just keep reading the dates
>>>>
>>>>> : :> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments
>>>>> speak for themselves :> :
>>>>>
>>>>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to
>>>>> do with "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was
>>>>> proposed LONG before.
>>>>>
>>>> My goodness what ignorance
>>>>
>>>> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the
>>>> Ottoman empire. England expected to take Palestine from
>>>> Germany's ally, in the same way France expected to get
>>>> territory directly from Germany etc. The promise was made to
>>>> thank the Zionists for their support of the English war effort
>>>> against the Germans
>>> What would be the definitive book or site for this information,
>>> Vince?
>>>
>>>
>>> - nilita
>>>
>>>
>> For a quick cite
>>
>> Britannica Concise Chaim Weizmann born Nov. 27, 1874, Motol, Pol.,
>> Russian Empire died Nov. 9, 1952, Reovot, Israel
>>
>> Russian-born Israeli chemist and first president of Israel
>> (1949–52).
>>
>> After studying in Germany and Switzerland, he earned a doctorate in
>> chemistry and patented several dyestuffs before moving to England
>> to teach in 1904. His 1912 discovery of a bacterium that could
>> convert carbohydrate to acetone proved of great value to the
>> British armaments industry in World War I (1914–18), and in return
>> the government aided his negotiations for the Balfour Declaration
>> (1917).
>>
>>
>> 1916 - The secret Sykes-Picot Agreement was signed May 16 carving
>> up the Mideast between England and France. Weizmann had been
>> influential in the diplomacy leading to the agreement, insuring
>> that Palestine would be internationalized and later become the
>> Zionist state. Many British Jews opposed transferring national
>> allegiance from Great Britain to Palestine during wartime. Weizmann
>> therefore urged Great Britain to publicly support Palestine, and
>> his greatest achievement in the Zionist movement was the alliance
>> with the British government that culminated in the 1917 Balfour
>> Declaration.
>>
>> http://history.sandiego.edu/GEN/ww1/weizmann.html
>>
>>
>> No Germany, no war, no cordite shortage no Zionist influence No
>> Balfour declaration
>
> The Jews, mostly from Russia, had been moving into the area since the
> 1880's buying up land from largely absentee Turkish landlords and
> this would have continued anyway. By the time of the annexation of
> the area by the British the Jewish populace was already seriously on
> the way to becoming a majority. Something which the Arabs were very
> worried about - as are most people who are in danger of becoming
> outnumbered by an immigrant population. It was the British who
> imposed serious limits on further immigration and land purchase.

The December 1931 British census of the country showed that of the 1.04
million people, 84 percent were Arab and 16 percent were Jewish.

While Jews in 1922 owned 3 percent of the land of Palestine, the
additional land purchased by 1947 raised the total owned by the
immigrant Jews to 7 percent of the whole area of the country.

http://palestinecenter.org/palestine/britishmandate.html

yes I know its a palestinain source but the figures are British

vince

[Fred J. McCall]

"La N" > wrote:

:
:"Vince" > wrote in message
...
:> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> "La N" > wrote:
:>>
:>> :
:>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
:>> ...
:>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
:>> :>>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
:>> ...
:>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
:>> ...
:>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
:>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the
:>> :>> time.
:>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
:>> :>> :
:>> :>>
:>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
:>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
:>> :>>
:>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
:>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
:>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
:>> :>
:>> :>
:>> :> Note the lack of facts
:>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
:>> :> He resorts to abuse
:>> :>
:>> :
:>>
:>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
:>>
:>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
:>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
:>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
:>
:> Again a fine example of Bush logic
:> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
:>
:

A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in 'personal
abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned, Vin.

:
:>
:> Just keep reading the dates
:>
:

Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.

:
:>
:>>
:>> :
:>> :>
:>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for
:>> themselves
:>> :>
:>> :
:>>
:>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do with
:>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG before.
:>>
:>
:> My goodness what ignorance
:>
:> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the Ottoman
:> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's ally, in the
:> same way France expected to get territory directly from Germany etc.
:> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of the
:> English war effort against the Germans
:>
:

What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that war
effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER, Vinnie?

The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had bugger
all to do with Germany or WWI.

As you say, "My goodness what ignorance".

:
:What would be the definitive book or site for this information, Vince?
:

Try a history course, Nilita.

Failing that, there are lots of good books on the subject of the
Ottoman Empire that are easily found.


--
"Ordinarily he is insane. But he has lucid moments when he is
only stupid."
-- Heinrich Heine

[Vince]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> "La N" > wrote:
>
> :
> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> ...
> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>>
> :>> :
> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> :>> ...
> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
> :>> ...
> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
> :>> ...
> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have the
> :>> :>> time.
> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess it up.
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness for
> :>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome causes.
> :>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier than
> :>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
> :>> :>
> :>> :>
> :>> :> Note the lack of facts
> :>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
> :>> :> He resorts to abuse
> :>> :>
> :>> :
> :>>
> :>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
> :>>
> :>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
> :>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
> :>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
> :>
> :> Again a fine example of Bush logic
> :> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
> :>
> :
>
> A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in 'personal
> abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned, Vin.
>
> :
> :>
> :> Just keep reading the dates
> :>
> :
>
> Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.
>
> :
> :>
> :>>
> :>> :
> :>> :>
> :>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for
> :>> themselves
> :>> :>
> :>> :
> :>>
> :>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do with
> :>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG before.
> :>>
> :>
> :> My goodness what ignorance
> :>
> :> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the Ottoman
> :> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's ally, in the
> :> same way France expected to get territory directly from Germany etc.
> :> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of the
> :> English war effort against the Germans
> :>
> :
>
> What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that war
> effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER, Vinnie?

1917?

wow dates are a real problem for some

>
> The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had bugger
> all to do with Germany or WWI.
>

names and dates
When did England and decide to make the land grab?

Vince

[La N]

"Vince" > wrote in message
. ..
> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> "La N" > wrote:
>>
>> :
>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>> ...
>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
>> ...
>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>> :>>
>> ...
>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have
>> the :>> :>> time.
>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess
>> it up.
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness
>> for
>> :>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome
>> causes.
>> :>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier
>> than
>> :>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> Note the lack of facts
>> :>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
>> :>> :> He resorts to abuse
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :
>> :>>
>> :>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
>> :>>
>> :>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>> :>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
>> :>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
>> :>
>> :> Again a fine example of Bush logic
>> :> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
>> :>
>> :
>>
>> A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in 'personal
>> abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned, Vin.
>>
>> :
>> :>
>> :> Just keep reading the dates
>> :>
>> :
>>
>> Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.
>>
>> :
>> :>
>> :>>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for :>>
>> themselves
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :
>> :>>
>> :>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do with
>> :>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG before.
>> :>>
>> :>
>> :> My goodness what ignorance
>> :>
>> :> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the
>> Ottoman :> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's
>> ally, in the :> same way France expected to get territory directly from
>> Germany etc.
>> :> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of the :>
>> English war effort against the Germans
>> :>
>> :
>>
>> What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that war
>> effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER, Vinnie?
>
> 1917?
>
> wow dates are a real problem for some
>
>>
>> The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had bugger
>> all to do with Germany or WWI.
>>
>
> names and dates
> When did England and decide to make the land grab?
>

Is this an open book exam? ... ;)

- nil

[Fred J. McCall]

"La N" > wrote:

:
:"Vince" > wrote in message
...
:> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> "La N" > wrote:
:>>
:>> :
:>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
:>> ...
:>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
:>> :>>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
:>> ...
:>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
:>> ...
:>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
:>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>> :>>
:>> ...
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
:>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
:>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
:>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have
:>> the :>> :>> time.
:>> :>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess
:>> it up.
:>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
:>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
:>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
:>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness
:>> for
:>> :>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome
:>> causes.
:>> :>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier
:>> than
:>> :>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :> Note the lack of facts
:>> :>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
:>> :>> :> He resorts to abuse
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>>
:>> :>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
:>> :>>
:>> :>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
:>> :>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
:>> :>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
:>> :>
:>> :> Again a fine example of Bush logic
:>> :> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
:>> :>
:>> :
:>>
:>> A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in 'personal
:>> abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned, Vin.
:>>
:>> :
:>> :>
:>> :> Just keep reading the dates
:>> :>
:>> :
:>>
:>> Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.
:>>
:>> :
:>> :>
:>> :>>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for :>>
:>> themselves
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>>
:>> :>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do with
:>> :>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG before.
:>> :>>
:>> :>
:>> :> My goodness what ignorance
:>> :>
:>> :> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the
:>> Ottoman :> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's
:>> ally, in the :> same way France expected to get territory directly from
:>> Germany etc.
:>> :> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of the :>
:>> English war effort against the Germans
:>> :>
:>> :
:>>
:>> What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that war
:>> effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER, Vinnie?
:>
:> 1917?
:>
:> wow dates are a real problem for some
:>
:>>
:>> The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had bugger
:>> all to do with Germany or WWI.
:>>
:>
:> names and dates
:> When did England and decide to make the land grab?
:>
:
:Is this an open book exam? ... ;)
:

See 'history of Egypt' for when British interest in Ottoman territory
began.


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[Vince]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> "La N" > wrote:
>
> :
> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> ...
> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>>
> :>> :
> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> :>> ...
> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
> :>> ...
> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
> :>> ...
> :>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>> :>>
> :>> ...
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I have
> :>> the :>> :>> time.
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably mess
> :>> it up.
> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over fondness
> :>> for
> :>> :>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome
> :>> causes.
> :>> :>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier
> :>> than
> :>> :>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :> Note the lack of facts
> :>> :>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
> :>> :>> :> He resorts to abuse
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
> :>> :>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
> :>> :>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
> :>> :>
> :>> :> Again a fine example of Bush logic
> :>> :> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
> :>> :>
> :>> :
> :>>
> :>> A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in 'personal
> :>> abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned, Vin.
> :>>
> :>> :
> :>> :>
> :>> :> Just keep reading the dates
> :>> :>
> :>> :
> :>>
> :>> Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.
> :>>
> :>> :
> :>> :>
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for :>>
> :>> themselves
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do with
> :>> :>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG before.
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>
> :>> :> My goodness what ignorance
> :>> :>
> :>> :> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the
> :>> Ottoman :> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's
> :>> ally, in the :> same way France expected to get territory directly from
> :>> Germany etc.
> :>> :> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of the :>
> :>> English war effort against the Germans
> :>> :>
> :>> :
> :>>
> :>> What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that war
> :>> effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER, Vinnie?
> :>
> :> 1917?
> :>
> :> wow dates are a real problem for some
> :>
> :>>
> :>> The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had bugger
> :>> all to do with Germany or WWI.
> :>>
> :>
> :> names and dates
> :> When did England and decide to make the land grab?
> :>
> :
> :Is this an open book exam? ... ;)
> :
>
> See 'history of Egypt' for when British interest in Ottoman territory
> began.
>
>

What a hoot

Egypt was under a non Ottoman dynasty since 1807


Rise to power
Muhammad Ali Pasha
Muhammad Ali Pasha

The process of Muhammad Ali's seizure of power was a long three way
civil war between the Ottoman Turks, Egyptian Mamluks, and Albanian
mercenaries. It lasted from 1803 to 1807 with the Albanian Ali taking
control of Egypt in 1805, when the Ottoman Sultan acknowledged his
position. Thereafter, Muhammad Ali was undisputed master of Egypt, and
his efforts henceforth were directed primarily to the maintenance of his
practical independence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_and_his_successors

Vince

[La N]

"Vince" > wrote in message
. ..
> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> "La N" > wrote:
>>
>> :
>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>> ...
>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
>> ...
>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>> :>>
>> ...
>> :>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> ...
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I
>> have :>> the :>> :>> time.
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably
>> mess :>> it up.
>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over
>> fondness :>> for
>> :>> :>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome
>> :>> causes.
>> :>> :>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier
>> :>> than
>> :>> :>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :> Note the lack of facts
>> :>> :>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
>> :>> :>> :> He resorts to abuse
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>> :>> :>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and
>> that
>> :>> :>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> Again a fine example of Bush logic
>> :>> :> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :
>> :>>
>> :>> A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in 'personal
>> :>> abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned,
>> Vin.
>> :>>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> Just keep reading the dates
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :
>> :>>
>> :>> Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.
>> :>>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for
>> :>> :>> themselves
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do
>> with
>> :>> :>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG
>> before.
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> My goodness what ignorance
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the
>> :>> Ottoman :> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's
>> :>> ally, in the :> same way France expected to get territory directly
>> from :>> Germany etc.
>> :>> :> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of
>> the :> :>> English war effort against the Germans
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :
>> :>>
>> :>> What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that war
>> :>> effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER, Vinnie?
>> :>
>> :> 1917?
>> :>
>> :> wow dates are a real problem for some
>> :>
>> :>>
>> :>> The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had bugger
>> :>> all to do with Germany or WWI.
>> :>>
>> :>
>> :> names and dates
>> :> When did England and decide to make the land grab?
>> :>
>> :
>> :Is this an open book exam? ... ;)
>> :
>>
>> See 'history of Egypt' for when British interest in Ottoman territory
>> began.
>>
>>
>
> What a hoot
>
> Egypt was under a non Ottoman dynasty since 1807
>
>
> Rise to power
> Muhammad Ali Pasha
> Muhammad Ali Pasha
>
> The process of Muhammad Ali's seizure of power was a long three way civil
> war between the Ottoman Turks, Egyptian Mamluks, and Albanian mercenaries.
> It lasted from 1803 to 1807 with the Albanian Ali taking control of Egypt
> in 1805, when the Ottoman Sultan acknowledged his position. Thereafter,
> Muhammad Ali was undisputed master of Egypt, and his efforts henceforth
> were directed primarily to the maintenance of his practical independence.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_and_his_successors
>
> Vince

From http://www.presidency.gov.eg/html/history.html

After the departure of the French expedition, Mohamad Ali, who was an
officer in the Ottoman Army, rose to power with the support of the Egyptian
people. His rule extending from 1805 to 1849 was an eventful period in
Egypt's modern history. He is regarded as the father of modern Egypt who
set the country on the march towards modernization.

In 1863, Khedive Ismail, a member of Mohamad Ali's dynasty, rose to power.
If Mohamad Ali had started the process of modernization, it was Ismail who
completed it. He had boundless ambitions to bring Egypt up to the same level
of culture, civilization and development which was enjoyed by most nations
of Europe. It was during his reign, in 1869, that the Suez Canal was
inaugurated.

Towards the end of the 19th Century, and exactly on August 12th 1882,
British troops landed at Alexandria marking the beginning of British
occupation which lasted for 74 years. The beginning of the 20th century
witnessed the awakening of the national conscience aiming at ending the
British occupation. Mustafa Kamel, Sa'ad Zaghloul, Mustafa El Nahas and many
others were prominent figures who strove to achieve two national objectives;
independence and constitutional reform.

On the 28th of February 1922, Britain unilaterally declared the termination
of the British Protectorate and declared Egypt an independent state. In
1923, the first Constitution was promulgated and Sa'ad Zaghloul formed the
first representative government of Egypt.

[Fred J. McCall]

"La N" > wrote:

:
:"Vince" > wrote in message
...
:> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> "La N" > wrote:
:>>
:>> :
:>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
:>> ...
:>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
:>> :>>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
:>> ...
:>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
:>> ...
:>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
:>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>> :>>
:>> ...
:>> :>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> ...
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I
:>> have :>> the :>> :>> time.
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably
:>> mess :>> it up.
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
:>> :>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
:>> :>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over
:>> fondness :>> for
:>> :>> :>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
:>> :>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome
:>> :>> causes.
:>> :>> :>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier
:>> :>> than
:>> :>> :>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
:>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :> Note the lack of facts
:>> :>> :>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
:>> :>> :>> :> He resorts to abuse
:>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
:>> :>> :>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and
:>> that
:>> :>> :>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :> Again a fine example of Bush logic
:>> :>> :> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>>
:>> :>> A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in 'personal
:>> :>> abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned,
:>> Vin.
:>> :>>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :> Just keep reading the dates
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>>
:>> :>> Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.
:>> :>>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for
:>> :>> :>> themselves
:>> :>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :>> :
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do
:>> with
:>> :>> :>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG
:>> before.
:>> :>> :>>
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :> My goodness what ignorance
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the
:>> :>> Ottoman :> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's
:>> :>> ally, in the :> same way France expected to get territory directly
:>> from :>> Germany etc.
:>> :>> :> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of
:>> the :> :>> English war effort against the Germans
:>> :>> :>
:>> :>> :
:>> :>>
:>> :>> What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that war
:>> :>> effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER, Vinnie?
:>> :>
:>> :> 1917?
:>> :>
:>> :> wow dates are a real problem for some
:>> :>
:>> :>>
:>> :>> The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had bugger
:>> :>> all to do with Germany or WWI.
:>> :>>
:>> :>
:>> :> names and dates
:>> :> When did England and decide to make the land grab?
:>> :>
:>> :
:>> :Is this an open book exam? ... ;)
:>> :
:>>
:>> See 'history of Egypt' for when British interest in Ottoman territory
:>> began.
:>>
:>>
:>
:> What a hoot
:>
:> Egypt was under a non Ottoman dynasty since 1807
:>
:>
:> Rise to power
:> Muhammad Ali Pasha
:> Muhammad Ali Pasha
:>
:> The process of Muhammad Ali's seizure of power was a long three way civil
:> war between the Ottoman Turks, Egyptian Mamluks, and Albanian mercenaries.
:> It lasted from 1803 to 1807 with the Albanian Ali taking control of Egypt
:> in 1805, when the Ottoman Sultan acknowledged his position. Thereafter,
:> Muhammad Ali was undisputed master of Egypt, and his efforts henceforth
:> were directed primarily to the maintenance of his practical independence.
:>
:> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_and_his_successors
:>

Poor Vinnie. He failed to understand the last two words of his cite -
"practical independence", as different from "actual independence".
That means it was politically still part of the Ottoman Empire, said
Empire and everyone else having not recognized its political
independence.

:
:From http://www.presidency.gov.eg/html/history.html
:
:After the departure of the French expedition, Mohamad Ali, who was an
:officer in the Ottoman Army, rose to power with the support of the Egyptian
:people. His rule extending from 1805 to 1849 was an eventful period in
:Egypt's modern history. He is regarded as the father of modern Egypt who
:set the country on the march towards modernization.
:
:In 1863, Khedive Ismail, a member of Mohamad Ali's dynasty, rose to power.
:If Mohamad Ali had started the process of modernization, it was Ismail who
:completed it. He had boundless ambitions to bring Egypt up to the same level
:of culture, civilization and development which was enjoyed by most nations
:of Europe. It was during his reign, in 1869, that the Suez Canal was
:inaugurated.
:
:Towards the end of the 19th Century, and exactly on August 12th 1882,
:British troops landed at Alexandria marking the beginning of British
:occupation which lasted for 74 years. The beginning of the 20th century
:witnessed the awakening of the national conscience aiming at ending the
:British occupation. Mustafa Kamel, Sa'ad Zaghloul, Mustafa El Nahas and many
:others were prominent figures who strove to achieve two national objectives;
:independence and constitutional reform.
:
:On the 28th of February 1922, Britain unilaterally declared the termination
:of the British Protectorate and declared Egypt an independent state. In
:1923, the first Constitution was promulgated and Sa'ad Zaghloul formed the
:first representative government of Egypt.
:

Note the phrasing "British Protectorate". Just who were they
'protecting' it from?


--
"Some people get lost in thought because it's such unfamiliar
territory."
--G. Behn

[Vince]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> "La N" > wrote:
>
> :
> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> ...
> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>>
> :>> :
> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
> :>> ...
> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
> :>> ...
> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
> :>> ...
> :>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>> :>>
> :>> ...
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> ...
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when I
> :>> have :>> the :>> :>> time.
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost inevitably
> :>> mess :>> it up.
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal it
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over
> :>> fondness :>> for
> :>> :>> :>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
> :>> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement Syndrome
> :>> :>> causes.
> :>> :>> :>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is easier
> :>> :>> than
> :>> :>> :>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :> Note the lack of facts
> :>> :>> :>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
> :>> :>> :>> :> He resorts to abuse
> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
> :>> :>> :>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and
> :>> that
> :>> :>> :>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :> Again a fine example of Bush logic
> :>> :>> :> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in 'personal
> :>> :>> abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned,
> :>> Vin.
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :> Just keep reading the dates
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak for
> :>> :>> :>> themselves
> :>> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to do
> :>> with
> :>> :>> :>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG
> :>> before.
> :>> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :> My goodness what ignorance
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was the
> :>> :>> Ottoman :> empire. England expected to take Palestine from Germany's
> :>> :>> ally, in the :> same way France expected to get territory directly
> :>> from :>> Germany etc.
> :>> :>> :> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support of
> :>> the :> :>> English war effort against the Germans
> :>> :>> :>
> :>> :>> :
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that war
> :>> :>> effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER, Vinnie?
> :>> :>
> :>> :> 1917?
> :>> :>
> :>> :> wow dates are a real problem for some
> :>> :>
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>> The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had bugger
> :>> :>> all to do with Germany or WWI.
> :>> :>>
> :>> :>
> :>> :> names and dates
> :>> :> When did England and decide to make the land grab?
> :>> :>
> :>> :
> :>> :Is this an open book exam? ... ;)
> :>> :
> :>>
> :>> See 'history of Egypt' for when British interest in Ottoman territory
> :>> began.
> :>>
> :>>
> :>
> :> What a hoot
> :>
> :> Egypt was under a non Ottoman dynasty since 1807
> :>
> :>
> :> Rise to power
> :> Muhammad Ali Pasha
> :> Muhammad Ali Pasha
> :>
> :> The process of Muhammad Ali's seizure of power was a long three way civil
> :> war between the Ottoman Turks, Egyptian Mamluks, and Albanian mercenaries.
> :> It lasted from 1803 to 1807 with the Albanian Ali taking control of Egypt
> :> in 1805, when the Ottoman Sultan acknowledged his position. Thereafter,
> :> Muhammad Ali was undisputed master of Egypt, and his efforts henceforth
> :> were directed primarily to the maintenance of his practical independence.
> :>
> :> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_and_his_successors
> :>
>
> Poor Vinnie. He failed to understand the last two words of his cite -
> "practical independence", as different from "actual independence".
> That means it was politically still part of the Ottoman Empire, said
> Empire and everyone else having not recognized its political
> independence.
>
> :

you still wrong.
Ali was a Khedive and his heirs had the position by hereditary right
That is not consistent with being "politically" part of the empire.

you are using 20th century language int he 19th century


Vince

[La N]

"Vince" > wrote in message
. ..
> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> "La N" > wrote:
>>
>> :
>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>> ...
>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message
>> :>> ...
>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>> :>> ...
>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
>> :>> ...
>> :>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>> :>>
>> :>>
>> :>> ...
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> "La N" > wrote:
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :"Vince" > wrote in message :>>
>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> ...
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> So in 1917 Britain had nothing to give
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> And yet oddly they wound up with it.
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> Funny how that works, don't you think?
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> [No, you don't, which is your problem.]
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :Thank you. I'm going to read up more on this when
>> I
>> :>> have :>> the :>> :>> time.
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>> Just don't ask Vinnie's advice. He'll almost
>> inevitably
>> :>> mess :>> it up.
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> It's the same as a car thief stealing on demand
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :> you sell what you don't own, so you go out and steal
>> it
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :But, Vince, why? oh, why?
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> Because Vinnie suffers from the Irish Disease - an over
>> :>> fondness :>> for
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> drink and an unreasoning hatred of the English.
>> :>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> It's the same bull**** response his Bush Derangement
>> Syndrome
>> :>> :>> causes.
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> Only the target is different. Unreasoning reaction is
>> easier
>> :>> :>> than
>> :>> :>> :>> :>> thinking, particularly when drinking...
>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :> Note the lack of facts
>> :>> :>> :>> :> When the facts get in Fred's way
>> :>> :>> :>> :> He resorts to abuse
>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> Poor Vinnie. Reality never gets in his way.
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>> :>> :>> :>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts'
>> and
>> :>> that
>> :>> :>> :>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :> Again a fine example of Bush logic
>> :>> :>> :> Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> A fine example from the man who claims he never engages in
>> 'personal
>> :>> :>> abuse'. This is the sort of lying hypocrisy that got you binned,
>> :>> Vin.
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :> Just keep reading the dates
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> Just put down the bottle and try engaging your brain.
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :> The record, the time line and Jack Straws comments speak
>> for
>> :>> :>> :>> themselves
>> :>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>> And so does the historical record. Germany had bugger all to
>> do
>> :>> with
>> :>> :>> :>> "the Jews getting a Homeland", since such was proposed LONG
>> :>> before.
>> :>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :> My goodness what ignorance
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :> Germany was involved in a war with England and its ally was
>> the
>> :>> :>> Ottoman :> empire. England expected to take Palestine from
>> Germany's
>> :>> :>> ally, in the :> same way France expected to get territory
>> directly
>> :>> from :>> Germany etc.
>> :>> :>> :> The promise was made to thank the Zionists for their support
>> of
>> :>> the :> :>> English war effort against the Germans
>> :>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>> :
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> What insanity! Just how 'important' were the Zionists in that
>> war
>> :>> :>> effort that they needed said reward AFTER THE WAR WAS OVER,
>> Vinnie?
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> 1917?
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> wow dates are a real problem for some
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>> The 'Sick Man of Europe' and European plans to carve it up had
>> bugger
>> :>> :>> all to do with Germany or WWI.
>> :>> :>>
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :> names and dates
>> :>> :> When did England and decide to make the land grab?
>> :>> :>
>> :>> :
>> :>> :Is this an open book exam? ... ;)
>> :>> :
>> :>>
>> :>> See 'history of Egypt' for when British interest in Ottoman territory
>> :>> began.
>> :>>
>> :>>
>> :>
>> :> What a hoot
>> :>
>> :> Egypt was under a non Ottoman dynasty since 1807
>> :>
>> :>
>> :> Rise to power
>> :> Muhammad Ali Pasha
>> :> Muhammad Ali Pasha
>> :>
>> :> The process of Muhammad Ali's seizure of power was a long three way
>> civil
>> :> war between the Ottoman Turks, Egyptian Mamluks, and Albanian
>> mercenaries.
>> :> It lasted from 1803 to 1807 with the Albanian Ali taking control of
>> Egypt
>> :> in 1805, when the Ottoman Sultan acknowledged his position.
>> Thereafter,
>> :> Muhammad Ali was undisputed master of Egypt, and his efforts
>> henceforth
>> :> were directed primarily to the maintenance of his practical
>> independence.
>> :>
>> :>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt_under_Muhammad_Ali_and_his_successors
>> :>
>>
>> Poor Vinnie. He failed to understand the last two words of his cite -
>> "practical independence", as different from "actual independence".
>> That means it was politically still part of the Ottoman Empire, said
>> Empire and everyone else having not recognized its political
>> independence.
>>
>> :
>
> you still wrong.
> Ali was a Khedive and his heirs had the position by hereditary right
> That is not consistent with being "politically" part of the empire.
>
> you are using 20th century language int he 19th century
>
>
Even I get that.

And why doesn't Fred just read you directly since he's inclined to debate
you.

- nilita

[Fred J. McCall]

"La N" > wrote:
:
:And why doesn't Fred just read you directly since he's inclined to debate
:you.
:

You've got that causation running the wrong way, dear. HE is inclined
to debate ME (and anyone else with sense - you apparently needn't
worry).

I just find it amusing that you keep finding new ping pong partners to
play with. First Jack and now Vinnie. So perhaps you should ask
yourself the question above with regard to me?

I thought they made you folks go through analysis so you'd understand
yourselves, yet you are the most self-blind and self-deluded person
I've ever seen. Your vocalized self-image is so at odds with how you
actually behave that it beggars the imagination.

The worst lies are the lies you tell yourself about yourself.

Ugly to the bone, I tell you...


--
"False words are not only evil in themselves, but they infect the
soul with evil."
-- Socrates

[Paul J. Adam]

In message >, Vince
> writes
>Fred J. McCall wrote:
>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
>
>Again a fine example of Bush logic
>Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence

I have not met Fred. I *have* met Vince, several times.

If he "loathes the English" then chauffeuring us around, playing tour
guide and host, then inviting us to his home to meet his family, was a
_really_ strange way of showing it. So was coming out to the UK to meet
us again. (And Fred whining about someone else's Anglophobia shows a
certain desperation...) Vince and I have a number of differences of
opinion on a wide range of issues, but he's able to remain courteous in
debating them.

He may well be wrong: the detailed history of the state of Israel is not
one of my specialised subjects. But if he's wrong, why not challenge him
on his egregious errors and mistakes? Why attack the plaintiff rather
than his case?

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


paul<dot>j<dot>adam[at]googlemail{dot}.com

[Paul J. Adam]

In message >, TMOliver
> writes
>But then a pragmatist might claim that hoors, dope and gambling, even in
>great excess, do not match the cumulative sins of an Empire which in
>dissolution has given us Zimbabwe,

Hey, Rhodesia declared unilateral independence and told Britain to get
lost, they would sort out their own problems.

Now we get blamed for letting them do it and ending up with Mugabe?

--
The nation that makes a great distinction between its scholars and its
warriors, will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting done
by fools.
-Thucydides


paul<dot>j<dot>adam[at]googlemail{dot}.com

[La N]

"Paul J. Adam" > wrote in message
...
> In message >, Vince
> > writes
>>Fred J. McCall wrote:
>>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
>>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
>>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
>>
>>Again a fine example of Bush logic
>>Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
>
> I have not met Fred. I *have* met Vince, several times.
>
> If he "loathes the English" then chauffeuring us around, playing tour
> guide and host, then inviting us to his home to meet his family, was a
> _really_ strange way of showing it. So was coming out to the UK to meet us
> again. (And Fred whining about someone else's Anglophobia shows a certain
> desperation...) Vince and I have a number of differences of opinion on a
> wide range of issues, but he's able to remain courteous in debating them.
>
> He may well be wrong: the detailed history of the state of Israel is not
> one of my specialised subjects. But if he's wrong, why not challenge him
> on his egregious errors and mistakes? Why attack the plaintiff rather than
> his case?
>
>

I agree. I don't always agree with Vince, but I'm always intrigued to know
how he comes to his conclusions, and he provides relevant cites, laws, etc.
that back up his arguments. Apart from his occasional use of the term
"horsesh*t" - and that's no big deal - he doesn't engage in profanity and
personal insults with his online opponents, I have also heard that he is one
of the most gracious people/hosts/friends to know IRL.

- nilita

[Fred J. McCall]

"Paul J. Adam" > wrote:

:In message >, Vince
> writes
:>Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
:>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
:>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
:>
:>Again a fine example of Bush logic
:>Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
:>
:
:... Vince and I have a number of differences of
:opinion on a wide range of issues, but he's able to remain courteous in
:debating them.
:

So the preceding sarcastic insult is your idea of "courteous"?

I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

:
:He may well be wrong: the detailed history of the state of Israel is not
:one of my specialised subjects. But if he's wrong, why not challenge him
:on his egregious errors and mistakes? Why attack the plaintiff rather
:than his case?
:

Because it is what HE does, despite frequent mealy-mouthed rejoinders
from him to the contrary. Also, since he's in my bit bucket I don't
expect to see much of his 'case' except when people start playing
usenet ping pong.


--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain

[Fred J. McCall]

"La N" > wrote:

:
:"Paul J. Adam" > wrote in message
...
:> In message >, Vince
:> > writes
:>>Fred J. McCall wrote:
:>>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
:>>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
:>>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
:>>
:>>Again a fine example of Bush logic
:>>Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
:>
:> I have not met Fred. I *have* met Vince, several times.
:>
:> If he "loathes the English" then chauffeuring us around, playing tour
:> guide and host, then inviting us to his home to meet his family, was a
:> _really_ strange way of showing it. So was coming out to the UK to meet us
:> again. (And Fred whining about someone else's Anglophobia shows a certain
:> desperation...) Vince and I have a number of differences of opinion on a
:> wide range of issues, but he's able to remain courteous in debating them.
:>
:> He may well be wrong: the detailed history of the state of Israel is not
:> one of my specialised subjects. But if he's wrong, why not challenge him
:> on his egregious errors and mistakes? Why attack the plaintiff rather than
:> his case?
:>
:
:I agree. I don't always agree with Vince, but I'm always intrigued to know
:how he comes to his conclusions, and he provides relevant cites, laws, etc.
:that back up his arguments. Apart from his occasional use of the term
:"horsesh*t" - and that's no big deal - he doesn't engage in profanity and
:personal insults with his online opponents, I have also heard that he is one
:of the most gracious people/hosts/friends to know IRL.
:

You people suffer from the worst case of selective blindness I've ever
seen. Either that or you're outright liars pushing your own personal
agendas.

I know which one I think is true...


--
"You take the lies out of him, and he'll shrink to the size of
your hat; you take the malice out of him, and he'll disappear."
-- Mark Twain

[Andrew Swallow[_2_]]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
[snip]

> :
> :On the 28th of February 1922, Britain unilaterally declared the termination
> :of the British Protectorate and declared Egypt an independent state. In
> :1923, the first Constitution was promulgated and Sa'ad Zaghloul formed the
> :first representative government of Egypt.
> :
>
> Note the phrasing "British Protectorate". Just who were they
> 'protecting' it from?
>
>

The French and the Americans.

Andrew Swallow

[Vince]

Fred J. McCall wrote:
> "Paul J. Adam" > wrote:
>
> :In message >, Vince
> > writes
> :>Fred J. McCall wrote:
> :>> Vinnie thinks his loathing for the English (and Bush) and his
> :>> unthinking reaction when talking about either aren't 'facts' and that
> :>> noticing them is 'abuse'.
> :>
> :>Again a fine example of Bush logic
> :>Clearly at the 99th percentile of Republican intelligence
> :>
> :
> :... Vince and I have a number of differences of
> :opinion on a wide range of issues, but he's able to remain courteous in
> :debating them.
> :
>
> So the preceding sarcastic insult is your idea of "courteous"?
>

it is directed at the argument not yourself
I fully accept that your arguments are at the intellectual peak of Bush
supporters.

Vince

[Andrew Swallow[_2_]]

Andrew Swallow wrote:
> Fred J. McCall wrote:
> [snip]
>
>> :
>> :On the 28th of February 1922, Britain unilaterally declared the
>> termination
>> :of the British Protectorate and declared Egypt an independent state. In
>> :1923, the first Constitution was promulgated and Sa'ad Zaghloul
>> formed the
>> :first representative government of Egypt.
>> :
>>
>> Note the phrasing "British Protectorate". Just who were they
>> 'protecting' it from?
>>
>>
>
> The French and the Americans.
>
> Andrew Swallow

One big difference between a protectorate and a colony was that
anyone born in a colony, including blacks, was automatically
granted full British Citizenship. People born in Egypt were still
Egyptians although things got fuzzy towards the end.

Andrew Swallow

[Fred J. McCall]

Andrew Swallow > wrote:

:Fred J. McCall wrote:
:[snip]
:
:> :
:> :On the 28th of February 1922, Britain unilaterally declared the termination
:> :of the British Protectorate and declared Egypt an independent state. In
:> :1923, the first Constitution was promulgated and Sa'ad Zaghloul formed the
:> :first representative government of Egypt.
:> :
:>
:> Note the phrasing "British Protectorate". Just who were they
:> 'protecting' it from?
:>
:
:The French and the Americans.
:

Wrong (well, maybe part right, but certainly nowhere near the main
answer). Care to guess again, or might you perhaps take a history
course?


--
"Ignorance is preferable to error, and he is less remote from the
truth who believes nothing than he who believes what is wrong."
-- Thomas Jefferson

[Jeroen Wenting]

"WhoGivesAFig?" > wrote in message
...
> Cite and Proof please
>
> the new head of the ayatollahs is a rational man.
>
He's quite rational. He's come to the conclusion that everyone who's not a
Shiite radical needs to be killed by cutting their heads of using rational
study of Holy documents...