homebuilt release of liability

[Floyd R Cudd]

could someone please provide me with a copy of the standard release of
liability when selling a homebuilt,I contacted EAA to no avail.or point me
in the right direction to obtain one.
Thanks
Ray

[W. D. Shellenberger]

The EAA did have a checklist back in '99. Ken is right!
These sales can always be opened up, but I till think it is
wise to take these precautions anyway.

Look up - "suggested checklist for sale of a homebuilt"
under Google Groups for some good background.
This will give you a good start. I would also insist that
the new owner must do an immediate annual inspection.
This may require some timing, but there are ways.

Shelly

[Juan E Jimenez]

Yes, no one can stop anyone from suing, but when you have an agreement that
says the buyer acknowledges the dangers, etc. and you have the wife sign it
as well as some witnesses that can come to court and testify that it was not
signed under duress, etc., it tends to have a dampening effect on the
plaintiff's lawyer. Or, sell the aircraft out of the country. I sold one to
Spain and even gave the buyer a nice discount to sweeten the deal.

"W. D. Shellenberger" > wrote in message
...
> The EAA did have a checklist back in '99. Ken is right!
> These sales can always be opened up, but I till think it is
> wise to take these precautions anyway.
>
> Look up - "suggested checklist for sale of a homebuilt"
> under Google Groups for some good background.
> This will give you a good start. I would also insist that
> the new owner must do an immediate annual inspection.
> This may require some timing, but there are ways.
>
> Shelly
>

[Dave Hyde]

Paul Lee wrote:

> Never mind successful, just a list of any lawsuits will do....

Start with the John Denver EZ and prototype RV-8
accidents.

Dave 'hold harmless' Hyde

[Juan E Jimenez]

I believe that's the point of an exculpatory agreement.

"Paul Lee" > wrote in message
om...
> There seems to be a lot of ongoing discussions about homebuilt sale
> liabilities. I have yet to see a list of successful lawsuits against
> a builder. Never mind successful, just a list of any lawsuits will do....
>
> ------------------------------------------------
> Paul Lee, SQ2000 canard project: www.abri.com/sq2000
>
> "Juan E Jimenez" > wrote in message
news:<06p3b.284525$Ho3.39018@sccrnsc03>...
> > Yes, no one can stop anyone from suing, but when you have an agreement
that
> > says the buyer acknowledges the dangers, etc. and you have the wife sign
it
> > as well as some witnesses that can come to court and testify that it was
not
> > signed under duress, etc., it tends to have a dampening effect on the
> > plaintiff's lawyer. Or, sell the aircraft out of the country. I sold one
to
> > Spain and even gave the buyer a nice discount to sweeten the deal.
> >
> > "W. D. Shellenberger" > wrote in message
> > ...
> > > The EAA did have a checklist back in '99. Ken is right!
> > > These sales can always be opened up, but I till think it is
> > > wise to take these precautions anyway.
> > >
> > > Look up - "suggested checklist for sale of a homebuilt"
> > > under Google Groups for some good background.
> > > This will give you a good start. I would also insist that
> > > the new owner must do an immediate annual inspection.
> > > This may require some timing, but there are ways.
> > >
> > > Shelly
> > >

[Ron Wanttaja]

On 28 Aug 2003 15:34:38 -0700, (Paul Lee) wrote:

>There seems to be a lot of ongoing discussions about homebuilt sale
>liabilities. I have yet to see a list of successful lawsuits against
>a builder. Never mind successful, just a list of any lawsuits will do....

IIRC, the builder of John Denver's airplane was sued. He was quickly
dropped (I assume because of a lack of a deep pocket) but he probably had a
few more sleepless nights over it.

Ron Wanttaja

[Ken Sandyeggo]

"Juan E Jimenez" > wrote in message news:<06p3b.284525$Ho3.39018@sccrnsc03>...
> Yes, no one can stop anyone from suing, but when you have an agreement that
> says the buyer acknowledges the dangers, etc. and you have the wife sign it
> as well as some witnesses that can come to court and testify that it was not
> signed under duress, etc., it tends to have a dampening effect on the
> plaintiff's lawyer. Or, sell the aircraft out of the country. I sold one to
> Spain and even gave the buyer a nice discount to sweeten the deal.
>

I never heard of anything that would have a dampening effect on a
lawyer's efforts, other than if he runs a financial on you and finds
out you're as broke as me. If there's money to be gotten, no stinkin'
piece of paper is going to stand in their way.

KJSDCAUSA


> "W. D. Shellenberger" > wrote in message
> ...
> > The EAA did have a checklist back in '99. Ken is right!
> > These sales can always be opened up, but I till think it is
> > wise to take these precautions anyway.
> >
> > Look up - "suggested checklist for sale of a homebuilt"
> > under Google Groups for some good background.
> > This will give you a good start. I would also insist that
> > the new owner must do an immediate annual inspection.
> > This may require some timing, but there are ways.
> >
> > Shelly
> >

[Juan E Jimenez]

I have. :)

"Ken Sandyeggo" > wrote in message
om...
>
> I never heard of anything that would have a dampening effect on a
> lawyer's efforts, other than if he runs a financial on you and finds
> out you're as broke as me. If there's money to be gotten, no stinkin'
> piece of paper is going to stand in their way.
>
> KJSDCAUSA

[Juan E Jimenez]

The agreement is not meant to be a binding contract, it's meant to show to a
judge and/or jury that the person knew exactly what he/she was getting into,
knew the aircraft was dangerous, was given the opportunity to and completed
a full inspection, and accepted all responsibility for doing anything with
it, among other things.

Besides, if the owner is so worried about liability, there are always other
options -- donate the aircraft to a charity, remove the engine or some other
component and surrender the airworthiness certificate to force the new owner
to ask for a new certificate (and in the process sign a form saying that
he/she says it is airworthy), take an axe to it, sell it overseas in a
country where frivolous lawsuits that ignore the concept of personal
responsibility are laughed out of court and get the plaintiff whacked in the
head on his way out, etc. :)

"Scott" > wrote in message
...
> From what I've seen posted in the past, it seems damn near impossible to
> write up a BINDING release because you can not sign away the rights of
> others. For example, if you get the buyer to sign away liabilty and he
> crashes and dies in it, his wife, kids, grandmother, etc. might sue you.
> I'm not a lawyer and this should not be considered legal advice. Like
> others have said, consult a competent lawyer for advice...
>
> Scott
> http://corbenflyer.tripod.com
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ParasolAirplanes
> Building RV-4
> Gotta Fly or Gonna Die!
>
>
> Floyd R Cudd wrote:
> >
> > could someone please provide me with a copy of the standard release of
> > liability when selling a homebuilt,I contacted EAA to no avail.or point
me
> > in the right direction to obtain one.
> > Thanks
> > Ray
>
> --

[RobertR237]

In article >, Scott >
writes:

>
>From what I've seen posted in the past, it seems damn near impossible to
>write up a BINDING release because you can not sign away the rights of
>others. For example, if you get the buyer to sign away liabilty and he
>crashes and dies in it, his wife, kids, grandmother, etc. might sue you.
>I'm not a lawyer and this should not be considered legal advice. Like
>others have said, consult a competent lawyer for advice...
>
>Scott
>

The only thing contracts are good for is ensuring that lawyers will make even
more money on time spent finding loopholes. I once heard a lawyer state that
he had never seen a contract that he couldn't break if there was enought money
involved.


Bob Reed
www.kisbuild.r-a-reed-assoc.com (KIS Builders Site)
KIS Cruiser in progress...Slow but steady progress....

"Ladies and Gentlemen, take my advice,
pull down your pants and Slide on the Ice!"
(M.A.S.H. Sidney Freedman)

[Corrie]

"Juan E Jimenez" > wrote in message >...
> The agreement is not meant to be a binding contract, it's meant to show to a
> judge and/or jury that the person knew exactly what he/she was getting into,
> knew the aircraft was dangerous, was given the opportunity to and completed
> a full inspection, and accepted all responsibility for doing anything with
> it, among other things.
>
> Besides, if the owner is so worried about liability, there are always other
> options -- donate the aircraft to a charity, remove the engine or some other
> component and surrender the airworthiness certificate to force the new owner
> to ask for a new certificate (and in the process sign a form saying that
> he/she says it is airworthy), take an axe to it, sell it overseas in a
> country where frivolous lawsuits that ignore the concept of personal
> responsibility are laughed out of court and get the plaintiff whacked in the
> head on his way out, etc. :)

Sell the a/c without the airworthiness certificate sounds like it
might work, even if you do nothing to the aircraft. Heck, you could
just disconnect the pitot/static line to render it 'unairworthy.' Do
it with the guy watching. Bill of sale should read "not-airworthy
homebuilt aircraft project." He, his wife, and all his kids sign -
hey, it's a big, exciting day for the family, right? :-)

Then, when you get served papers, you can send their lawyer a copy of
the BOS - and a copy of your bank statement.

[Floyd R Cudd]

Thanks for all of the input,there is a lot of good solid advice here.maybe
I'll just sell the airplane and hope the new owner is as safe as I have been
for the past 8 years,or maybe just disassemble it and hope the grandkids
take up our great sport.
Thanks again
Ray
"Floyd R Cudd" > wrote in message
...
> could someone please provide me with a copy of the standard release of
> liability when selling a homebuilt,I contacted EAA to no avail.or point me
> in the right direction to obtain one.
> Thanks
> Ray
>
>