GREEN CARD

[B.C. MALLAM]

I held an instrument "green" card when I was in the Navy. I know you had to
have something like 2500 hours before you took the ride for it but can't
remember what else it was for. Anyone remember? Or is it still around.


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

[John Weiss]

"B.C. MALLAM" > wrote...
>I held an instrument "green" card when I was in the Navy. I know you had
>to
> have something like 2500 hours before you took the ride for it but can't
> remember what else it was for. Anyone remember? Or is it still around.

The "Special Instrument Rating" allowed you to take off with less than
200-1/2 weather (300-1 without PAR available). Most of us who had one
never used the capability -- we were smart enough by then to know it was
REALLY stoopid! :-)

Ours were blue, not green. The CO or Ops O punched a hole in it with a
paper punch. The added wisdom upon presentation was, "Hold the card up to
the sky. If the color in the hole matches, you can take off."

[Ogden Johnson III]

"B.C. MALLAM" > wrote:

>I held an instrument "green" card when I was in the Navy. I know you had to
>have something like 2500 hours before you took the ride for it but can't
>remember what else it was for. Anyone remember? Or is it still around.

It's been 30+ years since I was in a squadron with pilots who
held/needed green cards, but going from memory, it allowed you to
sign off on your own IFR flight plans for cross-country flights
using the civilian ATC system. Governing directive for USN/USMC
was OPNAVINST 3710.7x [unsure of the .7, and the x would be a
capital letter indicating edition. Last time I worked with that
general NATOPS "bible", it was up to K or something like that.]

25-1/2 years out of the USMC, and as I said, 30+ years since I
was in a squadron which had pilots holding/needing Special
instrument ratings, I don't know whether it still exists, was
replaced by some other system, or what.

Struck out on trying to find OPNAVINST 3710.7 on the Navy
website. Or any Navy directives for that matter.

--
OJ III

[vincent norris]

> It's been 30+ years since I was in a squadron with pilots who
> held/needed green cards, but going from memory, it allowed you to
> sign off on your own IFR flight plans for cross-country flights
> using the civilian ATC system.

I got out of the Marines in 1954. In the early '50s, the above was
true. Some pilots in my squadron refused to accept a Green Card for
precisely that reason. They didn't want to be put into a situation in
which the Skipper would say, "Come on, we need someone to go, and you've
got a Green Card, you can go even though it's below mins."

vince norris

[Ogden Johnson III]

"Boomerang" > wrote:

>Is my memory correct? It won't be the first time that I have the fuzzy disease.

And it won't be the last time. Worse, they'll become more
frequent.

[And sometimes, more convenient, too. ;->]

--
OJ III

[vincent norris]

Boomerang wrote:
> I recall the Green Card being pretty much a requirement
> for dark- and-stormy-night flying....

I had only a White Card (got out before I had enough time for a Green
Card), but my squadron had a policy that we should do half of our flying
at night, whether it was VMC or IMC. IOW, if we flew to NXX in daylight,
we should wait till dusk to fly back home. Of course, if wx went below
IFR mins, I could not take off. I don't recall that happening very often.

> and did, indeed, shoot my share of below white-card minimum approaches......

However, once we were airborne, we could shoot approaches back home
(NKT, Cherry Point) regardless of the weather, because they had GCA. I
can't recall if there were any GCA mins, or not; but I can recall
shooting some interesting approaches.

> around 1975 or thereabouts, formerly "bold" pilots who now were "old" pilots got a pass on both flight time and
> instrument cards. Is my memory correct? It won't be the first time that I
> have the fuzzy disease.

That was 20 years after I got out so I don't know. I have the fuzzy
disease too, but the above is what I remember--I think.

vince norris

[John Weiss[_1_]]

"vincent norris" > wrote...
>
> However, once we were airborne, we could shoot approaches back home (NKT,
> Cherry Point) regardless of the weather, because they had GCA. I can't
> recall if there were any GCA mins, or not; but I can recall shooting some
> interesting approaches.

GCA PAR mins were 200-1/2; 100-1/4 at the boat if you were "special" and
dual-piloted...

[vincent norris]

John Weiss wrote:
> "vincent norris" > wrote...
>> However, once we were airborne, we could shoot approaches back home (NKT,
>> Cherry Point) regardless of the weather, because they had GCA. I can't
>> recall if there were any GCA mins, or not; but I can recall shooting some
>> interesting approaches.
>
> GCA PAR mins were 200-1/2; 100-1/4 at the boat if you were "special" and
> dual-piloted...
>

Mea Culpa; I think I cheated on those mins more than once.

Come to think of it, I recall shooting what we then called ADF
approaches (now called NDB approaches) to 200 - 1/4.

Years later, I began to think I must have "misremembered" that, but then
I read Bob Buck's _Weather Flying_, in which he confirms that ADF mins
were 200 - 1/4 in those days.

vince norris

[John Weiss]

"vincent norris" > wrote...
>>
>> GCA PAR mins were 200-1/2; 100-1/4 at the boat if you were "special" and
>> dual-piloted...
>
> Mea Culpa; I think I cheated on those mins more than once.
>
> Come to think of it, I recall shooting what we then called ADF approaches
> (now called NDB approaches) to 200 - 1/4.
>
> Years later, I began to think I must have "misremembered" that, but then
> I read Bob Buck's _Weather Flying_, in which he confirms that ADF mins
> were 200 - 1/4 in those days.

Slow airplanes, low mins? ;-)

Maybe people were smart enough to keep skyscrapers and radio towers away
from the airports back then. Developers and guvamint offishuls have gotten
stupider since...

[vincent norris]

>> I read Bob Buck's _Weather Flying_, in which he confirms that ADF mins
>> were 200 - 1/4 in those days.
>
> Slow airplanes, low mins? ;-)

Yeah, the slower you go, the longer it takes to fly a quarter-mile.
>
> Maybe people were smart enough to keep skyscrapers and radio towers away
> from the airports back then.

It was a long time ago, but I don't recall that there was much sticking
up around military fields in those days.

One exception was that there were two tall chimneys dead ahead, about a
mile, when one was taking off on runway 36 at NAS Anacostia. Easy to
avoid in VMC, and I never had to go in there on an IMC day.

Developers and guvamint offishuls have gotten stupider since...

Plenty of evidence of that!

vince norris

[Tom Clarke]

>>I held an instrument "green" card when I was in the Navy. I know you had
>>to
>>have something like 2500 hours before you took the ride for it but can't
>>remember what else it was for. Anyone remember? Or is it still around.
>
> It's been 30+ years since I was in a squadron with pilots who
> held/needed green cards, but going from memory, it allowed you to
> sign off on your own IFR flight plans for cross-country flights
> using the civilian ATC system. Governing directive for USN/USMC
> was OPNAVINST 3710.7x [unsure of the .7, and the x would be a
> capital letter indicating edition. Last time I worked with that
> general NATOPS "bible", it was up to K or something like that.]
>
> 25-1/2 years out of the USMC, and as I said, 30+ years since I
> was in a squadron which had pilots holding/needing Special
> instrument ratings, I don't know whether it still exists, was
> replaced by some other system, or what.
>
> Struck out on trying to find OPNAVINST 3710.7 on the Navy
> website. Or any Navy directives for that matter.
>
> --
> OJ III
Point 7 Tango is the latest and Uniform is ready to hit the street as soon
as CNAF signs off on it. Available on the Navair website if you have a dot
mil address. 3710 is FOUO, so it isn't on the "open" websites.

I got my last green card back in the 70s when they went away. Special
Instrument ratings still exist (2000 hours and 5 years as an aviator), but
you don't have to flash your card anymore!

Tom Clarke
NAVAIR 4.0P Airworthiness Office, Pax River
NATOPS Engineering Support
(we are responsible for all NATOPS manuals)

[Ogden Johnson III]

"Tom Clarke" > wrote:

>> Struck out on trying to find OPNAVINST 3710.7 on the Navy
>> website. Or any Navy directives for that matter.
>>
>> OJ III

>Point 7 Tango is the latest and Uniform is ready to hit the street as soon
>as CNAF signs off on it. Available on the Navair website if you have a dot
>mil address. 3710 is FOUO, so it isn't on the "open" websites.
>
>I got my last green card back in the 70s when they went away. Special
>Instrument ratings still exist (2000 hours and 5 years as an aviator), but
>you don't have to flash your card anymore!
>
>Tom Clarke
>NAVAIR 4.0P Airworthiness Office, Pax River
>NATOPS Engineering Support
>(we are responsible for all NATOPS manuals)

Thanks Tom. Figured it was something like that - FOUO and
needing a .mil to access.

As an aside, once upon a time, in certain circles that "(we are
responsible for all NATOPS manuals)" in your sig would guarantee
that you'd drink alone at the O club on any MCAS/NAS you visited.
;->

--
OJ III

[Jim[_10_]]

> Point 7 Tango is the latest and Uniform is ready to hit the street as soon
> as CNAF signs off on it. Available on the Navair website if you have a dot
> mil address. 3710 is FOUO, so it isn't on the "open" websites.
>

Actually it is:

http://doni.daps.dla.mil/Directives/03000%20Naval%20Operations%20and%20Readiness/03-700%20Flight%20and%20Air%20Space%20Support%20Servi ces/3710.7T.pdf


--
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NKX BIKF NAB CV-63 NIR
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&
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founder of newsgroup - RAMN