Tow Vehicle Woes

[rlovinggood]

The discussion on tow vehicles hits home. I have to replace the
trusty Accord with something that has a beefier hitch attachment
point.

I've managed to rip the hitch off from the bottom of the trunk twice
now.

Car: 2000 Honda Accord V6 sedan, 201,000 miles.

Trailer: 2006 Swan, with fiberglass top. Tongue weight: 170 lbs.
Total weight: Not yet weighed, but empty trailer is, according to the
manufacturer, 500 kg and the glider (LS1-d)weighs around 550 lbs, I
think. I would imagine the total trailer weighs about 1,700 lbs. I
hope to weigh it soon.

The first hitch attached with three bolts to the bottom of the Honda
trunk. The sheet metal measures "Oh Too Thin" I found out the hard
way. I think the trunk started tearing when the trailer hitch
wouldn't release from the knob as I was cranking the trailer hitch up
off of the knob and I was lifting the rear end of the car. Why was
the knob sticking? Because, unknown to me at the time, the Al-Ko
hitch has a little rubber cover that provides a cushion for the
trailer tongue when you back your car's bumper into it. It prevents
the trailer tongue from scratching your bumper. Well, a bit of the
rubber would get caught on the knob when hooking up the trailer and
when I tried to release, I would end up jacking up the rear of the car
a bit and stomp on the trailer hitch to release it. I thought it was
just a tight connection. Turns out the car wasn't made for this
abuse. Duh.

A body shop welded up the trunk and I found another hitch design.
This one bolted to the "frame" in two points and also to the "tie
down" or "tow" loop that is right over the center of the hitch. The
first hitch bolted here, too.

But I've managed to tear that out too. I think I did that when I
bottomed out recently. That is, when I drove the car out of a gravel
driveway onto a road and the trailer hitch hit the ground. I suppose
that's when the bottom of the trunk cracked around the central hitch
attachment point.

Damn.

So now, I need a vehicle that I can afford to buy, and afford to
commute 80 miles per day to work. Oil just hit US$88 per barrel.

I try to ride a bus to work as often as I can, but sometimes, I still
drive.

So, no, I'm not buying a Ford F-150 or Chevy pickup truck. I'm not
getting an Avalanche or Ford Excursion. In fact, I'm not getting a
Ford of anything. I've had two and they both lived up to the name of
"Found on the Road Dead."

I wish Honda had their turbo diesel here in America in the CR-V.
Sigh.

So, I think I've narrowed my search to the current Toyota RAV4 with V6
and the current Hyundai Santa Fe with V6. Both seem to have good
reviews in media that I have found. The plus for the RAV4 is that it
is a Toyota. It also gets about the same mileage as my Accord, even
with all wheel drive and 69 more horsepower! The Hyundai gets
excellent reviews on safety, but mileage isn't as good as the RAV4.
Both are rated to tow 2,000 lbs without the trailer towing package.
And both can tow 3,500 lbs with the tow package.

Which shall it be? I don't know, the story isn't over yet. But if
anyone wants a good hitch for a 2000 Accord (probably fit any sixth
generation Accord), send me a note. Should be great for a bicycle
rack.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA
Have trailer and glider, but no tow vehicle

[Udo]

My Honda Odyssey has a sub frame which holds a 3500 lb hitch.
I understand may car is based on an Accord chassis.
I have 120000 miles on it 75% of it with my trailer.
On its own, at normal highway speed, I get 25-27m/g
If you like your accord you will love the Odyssey, new or used
Udo

[Bob Salvo]

Check out Saturn Vue Hybrid. A fellow contest pilot is very happy with his.

[rlovinggood]

On Oct 16, 11:28 am, "Bob Salvo" > wrote:
> Check out Saturn Vue Hybrid. A fellow contest pilot is very happy with his.

A coworker has a 2007 Toyota Highlander Hybrid with a towing package.
It's rated to tow something like 3,300 or 3,500 lbs. It is
interesting, but PRICEY!

The new Saturn Vue, based on an Opel does look nice, but one "little"
thing turned me off: A 40 foot turning radius. No, I won't be
turning tight pulling a trailer, but my "tow" vehicle HAS to be my
every day driver, too. I don't want to take up so much space just to
turn around. The others I'm looking at turn somewhere in the 34 feet
to 36 feet radius. Not much less? Doesn't seem like it, but I think
40' is pushing it a bit.

Also, I'm not "in" to the hybrid stuff yet. I typically drive my cars
for long time and I don't know what a new set of batteries will cost
plus I would like to see the technology mature a bit. Diesel has been
around for a long time and it is still "maturing" with the new "Blue
Tec" stuff from Mercedes and other new stuff from the other German
automakers and Honda, etc...

Nope, hybrids just don't excite me, yet. Give it a few years.

Ray

[309]

On Oct 16, 7:08 am, Udo > wrote:
> My Honda Odyssey has a sub frame which holds a 3500 lb hitch.
> I understand may car is based on an Accord chassis.
> I have 120000 miles on it 75% of it with my trailer.
> On its own, at normal highway speed, I get 25-27m/g
> If you like your accord you will love the Odyssey, new or used
> Udo

I have an '01 Odyssey, 120k miles, new tranny at 108k (thank you
Honda).

Watch out for the 01-04 years (I think). Very problematic
transmissions. Do your research before buying a used one.
www.odyclub.com

Otherwise, excellent vehicles. Tows a 1-26 on an open trailer quite
nicely - but nowhere near 75% of that dragging the trailer.

-Pete
#309

[Ray Lovinggood]

My 2000 Accord got a new (rebuilt?, remanufactured?)
transmission at 96,000 miles. Thank you, Honda.

Honda must have realized they had a bad batch of automatic
transmissions because they extended the warranty on
my Accord's tranny from 36,000 miles to 100,000 miles.
As mentioned above, it got replaced at 96,000 miles.
Now at 201,000 miles, it's still shifting as required
and not making any nasty or strange noises.

I also had a transmission oil cooler installed earlier
this year.

By the way, the car towed the trailer nicely up to
about 70 mph. However, weather (winds) and traffic
(large trucks hauling ass), could make the car/trailer
sway a little with speeds over 70 mph. Below that
speed, it seemed pretty steady to me. In calm air
and not many trucks, it was steady at 80 mph, but I
felt more comfortable at 65 to 70 mph.

I really don't like the idea of having to get rid of
it just because the damned tow hitch won't stay attached.
Sigh.

Well, my brother still has the 1968 Chrysler New Yorker
four door 'hard top' (no 'b' pillar between the doors)
and 440 cubic inch gas guzzler V8. And, it still has
a trailer hitch on it for the times many, many years
past when dad pulled the camping trailer with it.

Naaahhhhh!

Ray

>I have an '01 Odyssey, 120k miles, new tranny at 108k
>(thank you
>Honda).
>
>Watch out for the 01-04 years (I think). Very problematic
>transmissions. Do your research before buying a used
>one.
>www.odyclub.com
>
>Otherwise, excellent vehicles. Tows a 1-26 on an open
>trailer quite
>nicely - but nowhere near 75% of that dragging the
>trailer.
>
>-Pete
>#309
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Oct 16, 2:18 pm, Ray Lovinggood
> wrote:
> My 2000 Accord got a new (rebuilt?, remanufactured?)
> transmission at 96,000 miles. Thank you, Honda.
>
> Honda must have realized they had a bad batch of automatic
> transmissions because they extended the warranty on
> my Accord's tranny from 36,000 miles to 100,000 miles.
> As mentioned above, it got replaced at 96,000 miles.
> Now at 201,000 miles, it's still shifting as required
> and not making any nasty or strange noises.
>
> I also had a transmission oil cooler installed earlier
> this year.
>
> By the way, the car towed the trailer nicely up to
> about 70 mph. However, weather (winds) and traffic
> (large trucks hauling ass), could make the car/trailer
> sway a little with speeds over 70 mph. Below that
> speed, it seemed pretty steady to me. In calm air
> and not many trucks, it was steady at 80 mph, but I
> felt more comfortable at 65 to 70 mph.
>
> I really don't like the idea of having to get rid of
> it just because the damned tow hitch won't stay attached.
> Sigh.
>
> Well, my brother still has the 1968 Chrysler New Yorker
> four door 'hard top' (no 'b' pillar between the doors)
> and 440 cubic inch gas guzzler V8. And, it still has
> a trailer hitch on it for the times many, many years
> past when dad pulled the camping trailer with it.
>
> Naaahhhhh!
>
> Ray
>
>
>
> >I have an '01 Odyssey, 120k miles, new tranny at 108k
> >(thank you
> >Honda).
>
> >Watch out for the 01-04 years (I think). Very problematic
> >transmissions. Do your research before buying a used
> >one.
> >www.odyclub.com
>
> >Otherwise, excellent vehicles. Tows a 1-26 on an open
> >trailer quite
> >nicely - but nowhere near 75% of that dragging the
> >trailer.
>
> >-Pete
> >#309- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Ray,

Go to a "trailer hitch shop" and see if they can re-inforce the
Accord. I'm sure something can be done to beef up the hitch attach
points. I've seen this done on uni-body cars before.


Dave

[GK[_1_]]

On Oct 16, 11:28 am, "Bob Salvo" > wrote:
> Check out Saturn Vue Hybrid. A fellow contest pilot is very happy with his.


- If you consider that GM bought the hybrid technology from Toyota
you might consider the original not some couterfits, that have a long
earned reputation of...
I tow a Minden trailer with 2005 4 cylinder Accord. Next year Honda
will bring their 2.2 turbo Diesel from Europe and having already
driven the European Diesel Accord, it will be the car to own.

[Michael Huber]

"Ray Lovinggood" wrote:

>I really don't like the idea of having to get rid of
>it just because the damned tow hitch won't stay attached.

I just can´t believe there is no solution to the hitch problem. Try to find
a hitch that attaches to the structure that holds the rear bumper, not some
sheet metal of the trunk, and keep the car.

Michael

[Ray Lovinggood]

I did as you suggested, to the best that I could find
another hitch.

The first hitch attached with two bolts through the
bottom of the trunk and one bolt through the 'tie down'
loop that is centered on the car and right at the rear
of the car.

The second hitch did away with the two bolts in the
trunk sheet metal and bolted to the 'frame rails',
but it still had a connection to the 'tie down' loop.

Problem is: The 'tie down' loop, while reinforced,
is still a part of the trunk bottom sheet metal.

Also, the car is rated to tow 1,000 lb. I'm pulling
a trailer that is over 1,000 lbs, closer to 2,000 lbs.
Also, the tongue weight shouldn't be more than 100
lbs for this particular car and I measured the tongue
last weekend with bathroom scales: 170 lbs.

This particular car just isn't going to pull this particular
trailer any more. The hitch has been removed, the
trunk repaired, for the second and last time, and I'm
going to have to get another tow vehicle.

Ray

At 07:00 17 October 2007, Michael Huber wrote:
>'Ray Lovinggood' wrote:
>
>>I really don't like the idea of having to get rid of
>>it just because the damned tow hitch won't stay attached.
>
>I just can´t believe there is no solution to the hitch
>problem. Try to find
>a hitch that attaches to the structure that holds the
>rear bumper, not some
>sheet metal of the trunk, and keep the car.
>
>Michael
>
>
>

[tommytoyz]

When I had my Hitch installed on my Honda Accord, it was welded on,
not bolted. Never had a problem.

[Peter[_4_]]

Ditto, I am on my second Odyssey (03 & 06). Several thousand miles of
straight out x/c. Good and convenient tow vehicle. PeterK
"Udo" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> My Honda Odyssey has a sub frame which holds a 3500 lb hitch.
> I understand may car is based on an Accord chassis.
> I have 120000 miles on it 75% of it with my trailer.
> On its own, at normal highway speed, I get 25-27m/g
> If you like your accord you will love the Odyssey, new or used
> Udo
>
>

[chris]

Ray,

Have you looked into Subaru Foresters and Outbacks? They tow good,
and if you can resist the turbo options the gas mileage is fine. They
are all wheel drive so if you landout in a field you'll have better
traction than the front wheel drive cars.
I've got 73000 trouble free miles on my Forester.
Chris

[rlovinggood]

Chris,

Yes, I am considering the Forester. I know you and RQ tow with turbo
versions, but I would look ONLY at the normally aspirated models
because I don't want to pay for the premium octane fuel required for
the turbo models.

The tough adjustment will be that I've been "corrupted" by the
additional power of a V6 and I don't know what it will be like to tow
with a four cylinder, again. Also, both the Forester and the Outback
are smaller than the Accord which will take some time to adjust to.

The 07 Forester is rated to tow 2,400 lbs, but I don't know what the
max tongue weight is. Probably 10% of the max trailer weight.

So, I guess I'm looking for a good, used, Forester.

One good thing: Time is on my side. My flying is done for the winter
and I don't have to worry about towing it anywhere for a while.

Ray

On Oct 21, 10:44 pm, chris > wrote:
> Ray,
>
> Have you looked into Subaru Foresters and Outbacks? They tow good,
> and if you can resist the turbo options the gas mileage is fine. They
> are all wheel drive so if you landout in a field you'll have better
> traction than the front wheel drive cars.
> I've got 73000 trouble free miles on my Forester.
> Chris

[[email protected]]

On Oct 22, 5:22 am, rlovinggood > wrote:
> Chris,
>
> Yes, I am considering the Forester. I know you and RQ tow with turbo
> versions, but I would look ONLY at the normally aspirated models
> because I don't want to pay for the premium octane fuel required for
> the turbo models.
>
> The tough adjustment will be that I've been "corrupted" by the
> additional power of a V6 and I don't know what it will be like to tow
> with a four cylinder, again. Also, both the Forester and the Outback
> are smaller than the Accord which will take some time to adjust to.
>
> The 07 Forester is rated to tow 2,400 lbs, but I don't know what the
> max tongue weight is. Probably 10% of the max trailer weight.
>
> So, I guess I'm looking for a good, used, Forester.
>
> One good thing: Time is on my side. My flying is done for the winter
> and I don't have to worry about towing it anywhere for a while.
>
> Ray
>
> On Oct 21, 10:44 pm, chris > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Ray,
>
> > Have you looked into Subaru Foresters and Outbacks? They tow good,
> > and if you can resist the turbo options the gas mileage is fine. They
> > are all wheel drive so if you landout in a field you'll have better
> > traction than the front wheel drive cars.
> > I've got 73000 trouble free miles on my Forester.
> > Chris- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

I think my 05 Outback is rated for 200 lbs tongue weight and 2,700
trailer weight. It has the factory hitch. It's in the shop right now
for an unrelated matter so I can't check.

It's the regular 2.5i version, non-turbo 168 hp. Drives 70-80 no
problem through New Mexico with a Cobra trailer and a 570 lb glider
and other gear in the trailer. This is mostly on I-40 and some
highways. There are places it would probably go a little slower here
though.

Bob

[James D'Andrea]

> Yes, I am considering the Forester. I know you and RQ tow with turbo
> versions, but I would look ONLY at the normally aspirated models
> because I don't want to pay for the premium octane fuel required for
> the turbo models.

There is a fellow pilot at Truckee (elev. 5,900') who tows his Genesis
2 in a Cobra fiberglass top trailer using a normally aspirated Subaru
Forrester. I'm not sure of the vehicle's year but its the generation
before the current one, maybe a 2003. He has towed it from sea level
and over the Sierra Nevadas without complaints or incident. So I
wuold imagine that a Forrester will be more than enough tow vehicle at
your elevation. He also likes the car's AWD capability as he lives in
the Sierras where it snows heavily during the winters. As an aside,
not all AWD systems are equal. Most systems favor FWD and do not
engage the rear wheels unitl slippage is detected in the front
wheels. Subarus have several versions of AWD depending upon the model
but they have continuous AWD in common, always sending power to all
four wheels. To see how Subaru AWD compares to the competion see
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyLgYskj-oc and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q7dVFY5CxT0&mode=related&search=