ASW20 and Discus in Club Class next year.

[Nick Olson]

Well IGC are letting in the ASW20 and Discus into Club
Class next year, (and increasing the handicap on the
Std. Cirrus at long last!). Which one should I buy
- which is likely to be more competetive? or is there
an alternative? I would like higher performance for
non-competetive distance flying.

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Nick Olson wrote:
> Well IGC are letting in the ASW20 and Discus into Club
> Class next year, (and increasing the handicap on the
> Std. Cirrus at long last!). Which one should I buy
> - which is likely to be more competetive? or is there
> an alternative? I would like higher performance for
> non-competetive distance flying.
>
Some random thoughts fromsomebody who has flown both Discus and ASW-20:

- I find the ASW-20/ASW-19/Pegase cockpit more comfortable for
longer flights. The Discus is OK, but after three hours I start
to notice that the lower part of the console is slightly too wide,
the pedals are slightly too close together and that they lock your
my feet very upright. As a result my knees give me hell for a few
minutes after landing, but ymmv

- the Discus is much easier to fly than an ASW-20. I soloed in an
ASK-21, then Junior, Pegase, Discus in that order. I had about 77
hours solo when I converted to the club's Discus and had no problems
at all. By contrast I had 226 hours solo when I converted to the
ASW-20 and would not have wanted to convert to it any earlier.

- ASW-20s are more spin prone than a Discus.

- Converting to an ASW-20 after learning on unflapped gliders is like
learning to drive on an automatic and then switching to a manual
shift: using the flaps is easy enough but always being in the right
flap for what you're doing takes time and practice to master - in my
case around 40 hours before it became automatic.

HTH


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Andreas Maurer[_1_]]

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 20:47:22 +0100, Martin Gregorie
> wrote:

>- Converting to an ASW-20 after learning on unflapped gliders is like
> learning to drive on an automatic and then switching to a manual
> shift: using the flaps is easy enough but always being in the right
> flap for what you're doing takes time and practice to master - in my
> case around 40 hours before it became automatic.

.... these 40 hours are really about the time that you need to become
familiar with an ASW-20, its incredible flexible wings and the very
"soft" feeling.

But then one is going to fall in love with the 20.
From all the gliders I've flown (including nearly all of the 15m
gliders) the 20 has *by far* the best handling characteristics.


Bye
Andreas

[[email protected]]

On Oct 19, 2:47 am, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
<snip.
> But then one is going to fall in love with the 20.
> From all the gliders I've flown (including nearly all of the 15m
> gliders) the 20 has *by far* the best handling characteristics.
>
> Bye
> Andreas
</snip>

And rather get a "BL" if you can, you will not be sorry!

[Andreas Maurer[_1_]]

On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 04:03:20 -0700,
wrote:

>And rather get a "BL" if you can, you will not be sorry!

Nah - the 20 only becomes really sexy when its landing flap setting of
55 degrees is not castrated... really steep landings are half of the
fun in the 20. ;)




Bye
Andreas

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Andreas Maurer wrote:
> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 04:03:20 -0700,
> wrote:
>
>> And rather get a "BL" if you can, you will not be sorry!
>
> Nah - the 20 only becomes really sexy when its landing flap setting of
> 55 degrees is not castrated... really steep landings are half of the
> fun in the 20. ;)
>
Agreed. The only other glider I've flown that can match it for steep
approaches is a Puchacz.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Wayne Paul]

"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
...
> Andreas Maurer wrote:
>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 04:03:20 -0700,
>> wrote:
>>
>>> And rather get a "BL" if you can, you will not be sorry!
>>
>> Nah - the 20 only becomes really sexy when its landing flap setting of
>> 55 degrees is not castrated... really steep landings are half of the
>> fun in the 20. ;)
>>
> Agreed. The only other glider I've flown that can match it for steep
> approaches is a Puchacz.
>
or, any of Dick Schreder's designs .. HP-14
(http://www.ssa.org/sport/PhotoGalleryDetail.asp?PhotoID=2613) ,
HP-13 (http://www.ssa.org/sport/PhotoGalleryDetail.asp?PhotoID=2595), etc.

Wayne
HP-14 "6F"
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Wayne Paul wrote:
> "Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Andreas Maurer wrote:
>>> On Fri, 19 Oct 2007 04:03:20 -0700,
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> And rather get a "BL" if you can, you will not be sorry!
>>> Nah - the 20 only becomes really sexy when its landing flap setting of
>>> 55 degrees is not castrated... really steep landings are half of the
>>> fun in the 20. ;)
>>>
>> Agreed. The only other glider I've flown that can match it for steep
>> approaches is a Puchacz.
>>
> or, any of Dick Schreder's designs .. HP-14
> (http://www.ssa.org/sport/PhotoGalleryDetail.asp?PhotoID=2613) ,
> HP-13 (http://www.ssa.org/sport/PhotoGalleryDetail.asp?PhotoID=2595), etc.
>
Nice pics.

Unfortunately I've never seen either type let alone flown one. I have,
However, heard pilots talking about standing on the pedals during finals
and now I see why.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[John Galloway[_1_]]

If the Discus is to be included then as far as I can
see there is nothing in the FAI rules to preclude a
Turbo Discus taking part in Club Class competitions
or from self retrieving. Is that correct?

In a no-water-ballast class the weight of the engine
would be an advantage. With both gliders dry my previous
Discus BT easily climbed and cruised in the mid range
with my friend's ASW 20 - so, if they could, I guess
that serious club class pilots would opt for the handicap
advantage and self retrieve capability of the Discus
BT.

John Galloway