Midair Over Long Island

[Marco Leon]

....and there were no injuries, thank God. Google for news articles. It was
between a Cessna 152 and a Piper Saratoga. ATC, with a veteran at the mic,
was excellent in their handling of the situation. ATC even called-out the
Saratoga traffic to the Cessna but I guess he didn't see it.

For audio, listen to here :
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kfrg/FRG-Oct-21-2007-2130Z.mp3
The traffic is called out to Cessna 72M at around 28 minutes

and here: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kfrg/FRG-Oct-21-2007-2200Z.mp3
for the rest including the landings.

I guess I put up that outdoor scanner antenna just in time :) Otherwise the
ground audio would have been inaudible.

Marco

--
__________________________________
KFRG Feed - LiveATC.net
http://audio.liveatc.net:8012/kfrg.m3u
http://alt.liveatc.net/kfrg (if firewalled)

[Kingfish]

On Oct 22, 11:05 am, "Marco Leon" > wrote:
> ...and there were no injuries, thank God. Google for news articles. It was
> between a Cessna 152 and a Piper Saratoga. ATC, with a veteran at the mic,
> was excellent in their handling of the situation. ATC even called-out the
> Saratoga traffic to the Cessna but I guess he didn't see it.
>

I just saw the story on AvWeb.
It's a rare day when two GA acft meet in midair and everybody goes
home.

[TheSmokingGnu]

Marco Leon wrote:
> ...and there were no injuries, thank God. Google for news articles. It was
> between a Cessna 152 and a Piper Saratoga.

Is it safe to assume the Saratoga won?

:P

TheSmokingGnu

[tom418]

The last midair over Long Island I remember was near Zahns Airport, between
two of the school's Cherokees in the early 1970's. The damage couldn't have
been too severe, as I rented both of those planes years later :)
"Marco Leon" > wrote in message
...
> ...and there were no injuries, thank God. Google for news articles. It was
> between a Cessna 152 and a Piper Saratoga. ATC, with a veteran at the mic,
> was excellent in their handling of the situation. ATC even called-out the
> Saratoga traffic to the Cessna but I guess he didn't see it.
>
> For audio, listen to here :
> http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kfrg/FRG-Oct-21-2007-2130Z.mp3
> The traffic is called out to Cessna 72M at around 28 minutes
>
> and here: http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kfrg/FRG-Oct-21-2007-2200Z.mp3
> for the rest including the landings.
>
> I guess I put up that outdoor scanner antenna just in time :) Otherwise
the
> ground audio would have been inaudible.
>
> Marco
>
> --
> __________________________________
> KFRG Feed - LiveATC.net
> http://audio.liveatc.net:8012/kfrg.m3u
> http://alt.liveatc.net/kfrg (if firewalled)
>
>

[[email protected]]

On Oct 22, 12:52 pm, "tom418" > wrote:
> The last midair over Long Island I remember was near Zahns Airport, between
> two of the school's Cherokees in the early 1970's. The damage couldn't have
> been too severe, as I rented both of those planes years later :)"Marco Leon" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > ...and there were no injuries, thank God. Google for news articles. It was
> > between a Cessna 152 and a Piper Saratoga. ATC, with a veteran at the mic,
> > was excellent in their handling of the situation. ATC even called-out the
> > Saratoga traffic to the Cessna but I guess he didn't see it.
>
> > For audio, listen to here :
> >http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kfrg/FRG-Oct-21-2007-2130Z.mp3
> > The traffic is called out to Cessna 72M at around 28 minutes
>
> > and here:http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kfrg/FRG-Oct-21-2007-2200Z.mp3
> > for the rest including the landings.
>
> > I guess I put up that outdoor scanner antenna just in time :) Otherwise
> the
> > ground audio would have been inaudible.
>
> > Marco
>
> > --
> > __________________________________
> > KFRG Feed - LiveATC.net
> >http://audio.liveatc.net:8012/kfrg.m3u
> >http://alt.liveatc.net/kfrg(if firewalled)- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

If you swap paint, thats OK, but if you swap wings or tails...

[Marco Leon]

"tom418" > wrote in message
...
> The last midair over Long Island I remember was near Zahns Airport,
> between
> two of the school's Cherokees in the early 1970's. The damage couldn't
> have
> been too severe, as I rented both of those planes years later :)

I believe there was one in 1994 and it was also between a Cessna and a
Piper. See: http://www.aopa.org/asf/ntsb/searchResults.cfm?identifier=FRG on
04/09/1994

Their fates were not as positive as the most recent one. Considering the
amount of traffic, the mix between training flights, and the flight path
limitations due to KFRG's proximity to Class B, the small number of this
type of incident is a bit surprising (knock on wood).

Marco

[SBC News]

While a bit confused at times once the crisis was largely over, I was very
impressed by the tower controller.
It's been a while since I lived in NY and flying in more peaceful skies in
the midwest I had forgotten the hectic nature of airports like this.
The thing I have always found about NY'ers (in whatever walk of life,
including atc) is that in a crisis they are worth their weight in gold.
The controller's "Cessna you are cleared to land if you can hear me" was
just what I would have wanted to hear in that Cessna in such circumstances!
Good to have a good outcome for once. I only witnessed one midair (at
Bartlesville OK) and it's not something you normally get back on the ground
in a good way from.
bb

[Dave[_5_]]

> Everytime tower or approach/departure issues a traffic alert to me and I
> don't spot the traffic right away I get nervous.
>
I've told this story before, so will just hit the highlights:

Once I landed out of sequence after being unable to spot some of the
others I was supposed to follow. Turns out the controller was running
simultaneous left and right traffic on the same runway - and hadn't
told me.

David Johnson

[Denny]

On Oct 23, 12:53 am, Dave > wrote:
> > Everytime tower or approach/departure issues a traffic alert to me and I
> > don't spot the traffic right away I get nervous.
>
> I've told this story before, so will just hit the highlights:
>
> Once I landed out of sequence after being unable to spot some of the
> others I was supposed to follow. Turns out the controller was running
> simultaneous left and right traffic on the same runway - and hadn't
> told me.
>
> David Johnson

There is a lot to be said for two strobes - top and bottom - and
landing lights ON, when in these traffic areas...

denny

[Marco Leon]

"Denny" > wrote in message
ps.com...
>
> There is a lot to be said for two strobes - top and bottom - and
> landing lights ON, when in these traffic areas...

I'm really glad they came out with the quartz halogen lamps for my airplane.
I keep the landing light on within 50 miles of the airport without worrying
about it burning out every ten hours.

Marco

[Kingfish]

On Oct 23, 10:13 am, "Marco Leon" > wrote:
>
> I'm really glad they came out with the quartz halogen lamps for my airplane.
> I keep the landing light on within 50 miles of the airport without worrying
> about it burning out every ten hours.
>

50 miles? Why so far out? I normally put the lights on at initial
tower callup. (8-10nm)

[Marco Leon]

"Kingfish" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> On Oct 23, 10:13 am, "Marco Leon" > wrote:
>
> 50 miles? Why so far out? I normally put the lights on at initial
> tower callup. (8-10nm)

Because of the location of FRG. To the north, there's quite a bit of traffic
zig-zagging across the Long Island Sound. The a bit more north, you have
Bridgeport and New Haven traffic. To the west and south west, you have the
Class B and I always keep the landing light on there because I'm constantly
getting called as traffic for the airliners. To the east, you have the
Islip, Brookhaven, and East Hampton traffic. East hampton might be a bit far
for the landing light but my [relatively] close call came over the VOR there
so it's a personal procedure

Long Island in general is busy. I probably can do without it directly north
and south but whenever I come close to the CT shoreline and the NJ Class B
edge, I generally put it on.

Marco

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

SockPuppet wrote:
>> Last flight I was coming in to Austin and approach called out traffic
> ahead of me, ll o'clock, one mile, my altitude. That plane was also
> going in to land and there was little chance of me overtaking them (a
> twin in front of a 152). Still the fact that I couldn't see them was
> making me very antsy.
>
> After contacting tower and getting an update on the other plane's
> location I finally saw them just before I turned final. It was no
> problem.
>
> And then it turned the guy behind me couldn't see my plane either.
> Talked to him at the FBO after landing.


When I'm in a busy area, I turn on the landing lights, day or night. They still
may not be able to see me but it improves my chances.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

TheSmokingGnu wrote:
> Marco Leon wrote:
>> ...and there were no injuries, thank God. Google for news articles. It
>> was between a Cessna 152 and a Piper Saratoga.
>
> Is it safe to assume the Saratoga won?

I think they both won!.

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Mortimer Schnerd, RN wrote:
> When I'm in a busy area, I turn on the landing lights, day or night. They still
> may not be able to see me but it improves my chances.

Same here.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Denny" > wrote

> There is a lot to be said for two strobes - top and bottom - and
> landing lights ON, when in these traffic areas...

That doesn't help in situations where you are high and overtaking the other
plane, and it is below the cowl.

Of course, a few clearing turns would help that situation, immensely.
--
Jim in NC

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Denny" > wrote
>
>> There is a lot to be said for two strobes - top and bottom - and
>> landing lights ON, when in these traffic areas...
>
> That doesn't help in situations where you are high and overtaking the
> other plane, and it is below the cowl.
>
> Of course, a few clearing turns would help that situation, immensely.
> --
> Jim in NC


http://wingsandwheels.com/page4.htm

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Morgans" > wrote in
:

>
> "Denny" > wrote
>
>> There is a lot to be said for two strobes - top and bottom - and
>> landing lights ON, when in these traffic areas...
>
> That doesn't help in situations where you are high and overtaking the
> other plane, and it is below the cowl.
>
> Of course, a few clearing turns would help that situation, immensely.

Well, exactly. There really isn't any substitute.



Bertie

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe"> wrote

> http://wingsandwheels.com/page4.htm

Yep, that is a neat gadget to be sure, but you never will get 100%
protection with a fool-proof gadget.

They keep on making dumber fools to defeat it! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Kingfish]

On Oct 23, 9:48 am, "Marco Leon" > wrote:
> > 50 miles? Why so far out? I normally put the lights on at initial
> > tower callup. (8-10nm)
>
> Because of the location of FRG. ....... Easthampton might be a bit far
> for the landing light but my [relatively] close call came over the VOR there
> so it's a personal procedure
>
> Long Island in general is busy. I probably can do without it directly north
> and south but whenever I come close to the CT shoreline and the NJ Class B
> edge, I generally put it on.
>

The few times I've flown into FRG the traffic was fairly light, but
not being familiar with the landmarks given by the tower was a bit
confusing. I fly out of Bridgeport and Danbury, (sometimes Oxford) and
am usually going to Montauk when heading out that way, it's normally
pretty quiet on that end of L.I. I'll never figure out why HTO and
MTP have the same CTAF - they're 16nm apart and that makes for one
busy freq during summer...

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

SockPuppet wrote:
> I couldn't say way the guy behind me didn't see me with strobes nav and
> beacon going, but, he didn't. Prolly the sun glare.


Frankly, I never see nav lights or beacons in daylight. Even strobes may not
attract my attention.... but landing lights are big enough to do it if I'm on
the right end of the approaching aricraft. Of course at night, there's no real
need for the landing light except as it was originally intended... because the
other lights jump out from the background.

You know the one thing I think is the absolutely most effective, yet so few
general aviation aircraft have one? The spotlight on the tail... like the ones
airliners use so you can read their logo at night.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com