The Horror; FSS service stories

[Kevin Clarke]

In honor of Halloween and the fact that I need your help for a school
project (from another thread, I am that engineer getting his MBA) I'd
like to hear your horror stories about the degraded service we now get
since the flip over of the FSS to LockMart. Just the details around the
flight, from where to where, what happened. I'd also like to hear if
this poor service resulted in or could have resulted in compromised
safety of the flight. Extra special bonus credit if you come up with
ideas for how the service could be improved.

The winner gets to hear me say nice things about them on this newsgroup. :^)

Thanks,
KC

Here was my story from this summer ...

On 7/29 I filed via DUATS an IFR departure from KFIT to KBHB via ENE.
This was at 1200Z. My proposed time off was 1500z. My morning went
quicker so when I got to the airport I called BDR FSS on the RCO 118.025
and amended my time off for 1300Z and filed for an alternate KBGR.

They had no record of my flight plan and called into Boston to get the
info, which I thought was strange. After my runup I called BDR for my
clearance and the controller said, you want to leave now? I wanted the
clearance before I went wheels up because there was SCT at 020. I didn't
want to play dodge-ums, while copying the clearance and programming the
GNS. He said he couldn't get a clearance and would I depart VFR and
pickup my clearance with BOS APPCH on 118.25 (or some such freq). he
commented that that was a good frequency to use. Which I thought was
strange terminology. Normally in this area out of Fitchburg we dial up
BOS on 124.4. But wanting to get underway I departed VFR, dialed up BOS
for the clearance. They seemed surprised I was airborne and had to
scramble to get me the clearance. I got vectored south-east (hdg 160)
which is unusual for a departure out of KFIT but eventually got my
clearance and was turned on course direct ENE.

All along the route as I got transferred from controller to controller
they kept asking "where are you going?". So something was lost and not
in the system. If you check out flightaware.com (N15892) I apparently
diverted to Portland on this flight. Which I did not, it was 5000' below
me. :-) The whole thing was very strange.

The flight was uneventful (I shot a much better ILS through actual this
time into KBHB). I called up the comment line that was posted in this
newsgroup recently and reported my experience, plus some other FSS
weirdness that I experienced the next day trying to get a standard
briefing. Did you guys realize they can't give you a briefing for a
local flight? You have to go somewhere. BHB-BHB doesn't count as a
flight. At least that was what I was told. But I digress.

Anyway, yesterday the Ops Mgr from BDR called me as a followup and went
thru all this with me. He was very helpful and wanted to get things
right, which I thought was great. He commented that asking me to depart
VFR was a big no-no and that the frequency they gave me for BOS was also
wrong. Anyway, I'm waiting to hear the resolution but wanted to share
that the system of follow thru anyway is working and some of the folks
there are trying to make this FSS debacle right.

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Kevin Clarke wrote:
>
> On 7/29 I filed via DUATS an IFR departure from KFIT to KBHB via ENE.
> This was at 1200Z. My proposed time off was 1500z. My morning went
> quicker so when I got to the airport I called BDR FSS on the RCO 118.025
> and amended my time off for 1300Z and filed for an alternate KBGR.
>
> They had no record of my flight plan and called into Boston to get the
> info, which I thought was strange.

DUATS holds the plan until one hour before departure.

From <http://www.duats.com/web_help.html>

"Flight plans are stored within the CSC DUATS computer until one hour
before the proposed departure time, at which time they are transmitted
to the appropriate FAA facility. If you have a flight plan in the system
which has not yet been transmitted to the FAA, you may use the "cancel"
facility to remove it from the system. If a flight plan has already been
transmitted to the FAA, it cannot be cancelled - you must file a new
flight plan. If you do file a second flight plan, please be very careful
to ensure that you activate or pick up the flight plan you want, as it's
easy for flight service or controllers to simply match your aircraft's
tail number with the first flight plan they see!"

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Kevin Clarke wrote:
> In honor of Halloween and the fact that I need your help for a school
> project (from another thread, I am that engineer getting his MBA) I'd
> like to hear your horror stories about the degraded service we now get
> since the flip over of the FSS to LockMart.

Glad to hear you are entering into this academic exercise without any bias.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Kevin Clarke > wrote in
:

> In honor of Halloween and the fact that I need your help for a school
> project (from another thread, I am that engineer getting his MBA) I'd
> like to hear your horror stories



Whooooowh



Here's mine, Flight Service suddenly ceases to exist!


Boo!



BTW, you don't have to say nice things about me.



Bertie
>

[Jay Honeck]

> In honor of Halloween and the fact that I need your help for a school
> project (from another thread, I am that engineer getting his MBA) I'd
> like to hear your horror stories about the degraded service we now get
> since the flip over of the FSS to LockMart.

Good luck with this, Kevin. I look forward to reading some fun
stories!

Sadly, (for you) my experience with FSS since LockMart has been just
fine. Initially there were come occasional longer-than-normal waits
for a briefer, but the briefers themselves have been outstanding.
MUCH better than the monotone drones we used to talk to.

In fact, I spoke with one on Sunday who turned out to be a historian
(with a degree in history, not just an amateur), and we enjoyed a long
discussion about how the Iowa Caucuses and the upcoming election fit
into the history of presidential elections in general. So long, in
fact, that Mary and my daughter started bitching at me that it was
"Time to go!"

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Christopher Brian Colohan]

Bertie the Bunyip > writes:

> Here's mine, Flight Service suddenly ceases to exist!
>
>
> Boo!

Huh. That has basically been my experience.

Whenever I have called them from home, the hold times have been so
long that I have given up and gotten info via DUATS before actually
talking to a human. (I am a relatively new pilot, and would prefer to
talk to a human who can help interpret the raw data and give me any
additional insights... but if no human is available, I do my best.)

Whenever I have called them from my cell phone, I have either not
gotten through, or been connected to a briefer who only knows about
the Boston area, and can not patch me through to someone who can tell
me about California, where I now reside.

As a result, I have given up on FSS. DUATS and other online sources
are all I use now. :-(

Chris

[pittss1c]

Kevin Clarke wrote:
> In honor of Halloween and the fact that I need your help for a school
> project (from another thread, I am that engineer getting his MBA) I'd
> like to hear your horror stories about the degraded service we now get
> since the flip over of the FSS to LockMart. Just the details around the
> flight, from where to where, what happened. I'd also like to hear if
> this poor service resulted in or could have resulted in compromised
> safety of the flight. Extra special bonus credit if you come up with
> ideas for how the service could be improved.
<snip>

It is an old story, but the only one I have since I stopped calling them.

I was making a short trip from Central Illinois to Northern Illinois.
I figured it would save me some time to go along the lake... I had a few
questions, so I figured I would call the FSS.
1. Meigs had recently been closed, but was still on current charts. I
wanted to verify that the airspace had been changed.
2. I wanted to check for TFRs.

Question 1 was about a 25 minute ordeal. No one knew... they kept
repeating what I told them. The airport is closed, but it is on the
current chart.... I don't know. They must have gone around asking
everyone in the area while I was on hold... After I got sick of waiting,
they suggested I call another FSS to try to find out.
Finally, I said forget it... are there any TFRs? the answer was no....
Oh wait, there is if there is a night Cubs game.... naturally I asked...
is there? They did not know. I was told I would need to find a computer
and check the Cubs website to determine if there was a TFR.

I thanked them for their "help" and ended the call... I haven't called
since.
It doesn't address the new scheme, but is a data point for the old one.

Mike

[Kevin Clarke]

pittss1c wrote:
> Kevin Clarke wrote:
>> In honor of Halloween and the fact that I need your help for a school
>> project (from another thread, I am that engineer getting his MBA) I'd
>> like to hear your horror stories about the degraded service we now
>> get since the flip over of the FSS to LockMart. Just the details
>> around the flight, from where to where, what happened. I'd also like
>> to hear if this poor service resulted in or could have resulted in
>> compromised safety of the flight. Extra special bonus credit if you
>> come up with ideas for how the service could be improved.
> <snip>
>
> It is an old story, but the only one I have since I stopped calling them.
That is an interesting point, I've heard a few folks say they have
stopped calling. I only call when I have to now. It seems that to run a
business you need customers (duh). If the FSS service is perceived to
need improvement to the point that they are losing customers then that
is an obvious reason for them to improve their service (unless of course
something silly is happening.)

How many folks have quit using FSS and instead rely on other means?

KC

[Doug Carter]

On 2007-10-31, Kevin Clarke > wrote:
> How many folks have quit using FSS and instead rely on other means?

DUATS since 2001.

Rare phone call when no Internet access; perhaps once a year.

[JGalban via AviationKB.com]

pittss1c wrote:
>I was making a short trip from Central Illinois to Northern Illinois.
>I figured it would save me some time to go along the lake... I had a few
>questions, so I figured I would call the FSS.
>1. Meigs had recently been closed, but was still on current charts. I
>wanted to verify that the airspace had been changed.

Just out of curiosity, what difference would that make on your flight?
Anytime a tower is closed, you treat the airport as non-towered.

Airspace changes often take months, as the proposed change has to be
published in the Federal Register well in advance of the actual change.

John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/aviation/200710/1

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Kevin Clarke wrote:
>
>
> How many folks have quit using FSS and instead rely on other means?
>

The only time I EVER called was when I was a student and my instructor
made me do it as part of a lesson. Once!

I use DUATS, ADDS, and WSI terminals for weather and flight plan filing.

I do have FSS in my cell phone, just in case none of the above are
available, but still haven't needed to use it. <G>

[pittss1c]

JGalban via AviationKB.com wrote:
> pittss1c wrote:
>> I was making a short trip from Central Illinois to Northern Illinois.
>> I figured it would save me some time to go along the lake... I had a few
>> questions, so I figured I would call the FSS.
>> 1. Meigs had recently been closed, but was still on current charts. I
>> wanted to verify that the airspace had been changed.
>
> Just out of curiosity, what difference would that make on your flight?
> Anytime a tower is closed, you treat the airport as non-towered.
>
> Airspace changes often take months, as the proposed change has to be
> published in the Federal Register well in advance of the actual change.
>
> John Galban=====>N4BQ (PA28-180)
>

The truth is... at the time, I really didn't know what was going on
there with the tower/airspace. I guess I would have expected that it
hadn't been changed so that I could fly right by downtown without
communicating with anyone. (given the security environment at the time)
Turns out I was wrong, I could flight basically right by downtown.
It was a nice flight... until I passed over Meigs :(

Mike