Why are airplanes white? [Archive]

Morgans[_2_]

November 3rd 07, 01:31 PM

Thomas Borchert

November 3rd 07, 01:35 PM

Jay,

> the usual "because white reflects heat better"
>

Try: It makes the bugs show better, so it is easier for you to wash
them off after Daddy flew the plane, honey. <gd&r>

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Darkwing

November 3rd 07, 01:37 PM

Jay Honeck

November 3rd 07, 01:57 PM

> Fiberglass airplanes almost demand it. If they get too hot, the epoxy gets
> hot, and gets weak. Very weak.

Yep, I fiberglass has to be a lighter color -- that makes sense.

> Other airplanes get too hot to be comfortable in the summer. The heat of
> being parked in the sun also lets the interior get so hot that it damages
> expensive avionics.

My interior gets to over 121 degrees (the max of my panel thermometer)
every time I park outside in the summer (unless I put the window
reflectors in, of course), and my plane is white.

I suppose it would be worse if it were black, but blue or red or
silver (like the new Cirrus) sure wouldn't hurt.

I think owners are afraid of harming their resale value, and white is
the most "neutral" of all colors. I would like to see more
imagination in our aircraft -- heck, it might even attract new people
to aviation?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Judah

November 3rd 07, 02:49 PM

Jay Honeck > wrote in news:1194095788.943020.167300
@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> really doesn't add up, does it?

It doesn't add up because not all airplanes are white:

The military paints many of their planes camoflauge...

USAir, American, and United all fly planes that are mostly blue...

And Southwest flies really bad ugly orange planes...

Planes come in all colors -

http://www.cepolina.com/freephoto/f/other.0sky/airplane.colors.object.jpg

Morgans[_2_]

November 3rd 07, 02:55 PM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote

> My interior gets to over 121 degrees (the max of my panel thermometer)
> every time I park outside in the summer (unless I put the window
> reflectors in, of course), and my plane is white.
>
> I suppose it would be worse if it were black, but blue or red or
> silver (like the new Cirrus) sure wouldn't hurt.

It is amazing how much hotter ANY color gets.

I recall that even a light color like yellow is something like over 30%
hotter than white.

Red? Dark blue and black?

You REALLY don't want to go there. <g>

I saw a chart one time, and it gave the interior temperatures of a boat (?)
painted different colors, I think. I could not find it now. You might want
to find it, if you can. It is a real eye opener.
--
Jim in NC

[email protected]

November 3rd 07, 03:25 PM

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> really doesn't add up, does it?

> Automobiles, motorcycles, boats -- you name it -- all come in a
> rainbow of colors. Why are 99.5% of all planes (except for some cool
> old classics and some neat homebuilts) white?

My guess would be that it is the same reason the interior of new
houses are white; it is a one-size fits all color that is acceptable
to most everyone.

And there aren't that many choices in colors on the dealer lots for
cars, motorcycles, and boats.

I've never seen anything but white boats on the new lot, most
motorcyles seem to be either red or blue, and most cars on the
lot seem to come in about 4 different colors.

Sure, you can usually order any color you want, but the stock stuff
is limited for the most part.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Maxwell

November 3rd 07, 03:42 PM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> really doesn't add up, does it?
>
> Automobiles, motorcycles, boats -- you name it -- all come in a
> rainbow of colors. Why are 99.5% of all planes (except for some cool
> old classics and some neat homebuilts) white?
> --

It think there is a lot of reasons why white is such a popular color for
airplanes. I think some of the reasons also makes white a popular color
choice for lots of things. My "guesses" are in no particular order.

Although we all have favorite colors, we also have colors we dislike. My
guess is than fewer people on average dislike white, than most any other
color. Less chance of painting an aircraft a color that some one dislikes.

White makes a excellent base color for most any other trim color. It even
works well with very light colors like light gray, or light yellow.

Right or wrong, white is always thought to be associated with cooler
temperatures in the heat. Hence, cooler cockpit, better for composites, etc.

As it ages, white shows it's age less than most any other color. Even very
heavily oxidized white paint can fool you until you get close enough to
touch it.

Cost. Airplanes take a lot of paint. And white paint is often the cheapest
available, depending on the type. Maybe even lighter, but I don't know.

White most often makes a positive psychological suggestion, especially when
compared to colors like black, red or green.

White does less to conceal leaks or loose fasteners, than most any other
color. Makes preflight easier.

But then, I myself, just happen to think white is a very attractive color.
All my of my women and trucks have always been white, and several of my
cars. I guess you could just call me a "white" boy.

Ron Wanttaja

November 3rd 07, 03:51 PM

First thought that came to mind: It's cheaper, somehow.

Barns came to traditionally be painted red because a hundred years ago, that was
the cheapest paint color. Looking at the GA planes of 50 years ago, reds and
yellows predominate.

Why did the fleet center on white? Perhaps there was an advance in paint
technology that resulted in lowering the manufacturer's costs if the planes were
painted white.

For instance, today, when you go to the hardware store to buy a gallon of paint,
the store starts with a gallon of *white* paint. They then add pigmentation to
make it the color you want. Make it a few tens of thousands of gallons a year,
and the cost of the pigment goes up. Paint white, save the extra cost.

It may even be tied to the transition from fabric-covered planes to all-metal
aircraft. You can brush/roll-on colored dope and the plane will look great, but
there's no weave for the paint to soak into, on a metal surface. Metal surfaces
want to be sprayed, and white paint is probably easier to monitor for
consistency during the process (spotting thin areas, detecting sags, etc.).
And, it could be that somehow the formulations of white paint in the '50s were
somehow more suitable for spraying than other colors.

Ron Wanttaja

Bob Gardner

November 3rd 07, 03:53 PM

It gives the manufacturer more options in selecting trim colors, just as all
Boeing jets come out of the factory green.

Bob Gardner

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> really doesn't add up, does it?
>
> Automobiles, motorcycles, boats -- you name it -- all come in a
> rainbow of colors. Why are 99.5% of all planes (except for some cool
> old classics and some neat homebuilts) white?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"
>

Frank Barchi

November 3rd 07, 04:16 PM

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 3rd 07, 04:54 PM

Jay Honeck wrote:

You DO realize of course that by bringing this up you have opened a
whole new source of potential revenue for Al Sharpton and Jesse
Jackson?????????
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

November 3rd 07, 05:25 PM

> I recall that even a light color like yellow is something like over 30%
> hotter than white.

What 30% means? Either 50 deg C becomes 65 deg C or 122 deg F becomes
159 deg F? ;)

--
SPace-SHIP

Judah

November 3rd 07, 05:25 PM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> You DO realize of course that by bringing this up you have opened a
> whole new source of potential revenue for Al Sharpton and Jesse
> Jackson?????????
>:-))

So long as there are no Black aircraft that have been specifically attacked
by White aircraft this should not be an issue.

However, it brings to light the truth as to why military aircraft are
generally painted olive green...

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 3rd 07, 05:35 PM

Jay Honeck > wrote in news:1194095788.943020.167300
@o3g2000hsb.googlegroups.com:

> My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> really doesn't add up, does it?
>
> Automobiles, motorcycles, boats -- you name it -- all come in a
> rainbow of colors. Why are 99.5% of all planes (except for some cool
> old classics and some neat homebuilts) white?
> --

My last one wasn't and my next one won't be..

Bertie

Mxsmanic

November 3rd 07, 05:41 PM

Jay Honeck writes:

> My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> really doesn't add up, does it?

Actually it does, at least for high-speed aircraft. They are already heated
externally by aerodynamic friction, and letting the sun beat down on them at
high altitude with a black paint job would only heat them up more.

However, some black liveries are in service, so apparently it's not enough to
cause a problem. The old Playboy corporate jet was entirely black, and I
think there have been a few others.

For small GA aircraft, I can't think of any obvious reason why they should be
painted white.

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 3rd 07, 06:04 PM

Judah wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> You DO realize of course that by bringing this up you have opened a
>> whole new source of potential revenue for Al Sharpton and Jesse
>> Jackson?????????
>> :-))
>
>
> So long as there are no Black aircraft that have been specifically attacked
> by White aircraft this should not be an issue.

Well....could be......and I know Twanna Brawley isn't an airplane, and
she most certainly wasn't attacked, but lo and behold......who shows up
to "save the day and "make it all right again" but Sharpton!!!! :-))
DH

--
Dudley Henriques

Morgans[_2_]

November 3rd 07, 06:35 PM

"wp" > wrote in message
...
>> I recall that even a light color like yellow is something like over 30%
>> hotter than white.
>
> What 30% means? Either 50 deg C becomes 65 deg C or 122 deg F becomes
> 159 deg F? ;)

As I recall (and that is all I can do, since I can't find the chart again)
the white temperature was compared to a black temperature, both in direct
sun. All of the other colors were compared to that.

Surely somone can remember seeing that study, anyone?
--
Jim in NC

Judah

November 3rd 07, 06:41 PM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Judah wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> You DO realize of course that by bringing this up you have opened a
>>> whole new source of potential revenue for Al Sharpton and Jesse
>>> Jackson?????????
>>> :-))
>>
>>
>> So long as there are no Black aircraft that have been specifically
>> attacked by White aircraft this should not be an issue.
>
>
> Well....could be......and I know Twanna Brawley isn't an airplane, and
> she most certainly wasn't attacked, but lo and behold......who shows up
> to "save the day and "make it all right again" but Sharpton!!!! :-))
> DH

Tawana Brawley claimed to have been raped, which certainly made Sharpton
see Green. The allegations were later proved untrue and everyone involved
(especially Sharpton) walked away quite Red-faced.

I'm Green enough that before the incident, I saw the world through Rose-
colored glasses.

Quite frankly, this whole talk about Sharpton and Jackson is just a Red
herring anyway, because they are both too Yellow to ever fly an airplane.

I just hope this conversation doesn't give them the Green light to start
profiteering from the aviation industry.

Blue skies...

Paul Tomblin

November 3rd 07, 06:58 PM

In a previous article, "Bob Gardner" > said:
>It gives the manufacturer more options in selecting trim colors, just as all
>Boeing jets come out of the factory green.

I thought Boeing jets come out of the factory covered in Zinc Chromate
rather than paint?

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Beware of bugs in the above code; I have only proved it correct, not tried it.
- Donald Knuth

Tony

November 3rd 07, 07:04 PM

Your assumption is that solar heating is a factor. If the aerodynamic
heating is high, one could argue radiative heat transfer would be
enhanced with black body radiation. The SR 71 is, you might notice,
black, but that may be the result of long wavelength (longer than
optical at least) absorbance considrations.

On Nov 3, 1:41 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Jay Honeck writes:
> > My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> > her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> > really doesn't add up, does it?
>
> Actually it does, at least for high-speed aircraft. They are already heated
> externally by aerodynamic friction, and letting the sun beat down on them at
> high altitude with a black paint job would only heat them up more.
>
> However, some black liveries are in service, so apparently it's not enough to
> cause a problem. The old Playboy corporate jet was entirely black, and I
> think there have been a few others.
>
> For small GA aircraft, I can't think of any obvious reason why they should be
> painted white.

[email protected]

November 3rd 07, 08:14 PM

On 3 Nov, 19:04, Tony > wrote:
> Your assumption is that solar heating is a factor. If the aerodynamic
> heating is high, one could argue radiative heat transfer would be
> enhanced with black body radiation. The SR 71 is, you might notice,
> black, but that may be the result of long wavelength (longer than
> optical at least) absorbance considrations.
>
> On Nov 3, 1:41 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
>
>
>
> > Jay Honeck writes:
> > > My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> > > her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> > > really doesn't add up, does it?
>
> > Actually it does, at least for high-speed aircraft. They are already heated
> > externally by aerodynamic friction, and letting the sun beat down on them at
> > high altitude with a black paint job would only heat them up more.
>
> > However, some black liveries are in service, so apparently it's not enough to
> > cause a problem. The old Playboy corporate jet was entirely black, and I
> > think there have been a few others.
>
> > For small GA aircraft, I can't think of any obvious reason why they should be
> > painted white.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Loads of good stuff already; I am pretty sure that
white shows up surface defects less redily than
other colours and that black shows them most
clearly. Anyone in car painting would know this for sure.

I did read recently that the SR-71 was black to
reduce the surface temperature by increasing
radiation away from the aircraft. Clearly aeordynamic
heating of the structure put a lot of energy in.

Morgans[_2_]

November 3rd 07, 08:49 PM

"Richard Riley" > wrote

> http://tinyurl.com/yv62an
> http://tinyurl.com/yu2jnu

That one is close, though there was a clearer, easy to interpret study, I
think.
--
Jim in NC

Jay Honeck

November 3rd 07, 09:20 PM

> I just hope this conversation doesn't give them the Green light to start
> profiteering from the aviation industry.

We can talk until we're blue in the face, but it'll remain a black
comedy until Sharpton (whatta marroon!) sees this golden opportunity
to get back in the pink with his followers, and shows signs of seeing
the many shades of gray that this topic has to offer.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Jay Honeck

November 3rd 07, 09:22 PM

> I did read recently that the SR-71 was black to
> reduce the surface temperature by increasing
> radiation away from the aircraft.

???

I thought black increased surface temperature?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

J. Severyn

November 3rd 07, 09:23 PM

Tony

November 3rd 07, 09:26 PM

No Jay, black is more absorbant and more emissive than a shiny
surface. If it's sun light heating you're trying to reduce, you'd want
to reflect away the energy with a reflective surface. If, though, the
thing you're worried about is hotter than its surroundings and you are
interested in radiating the heat away, you'd want increased
emissivity, and make it black. A black body radiater is considered
perfect, and it is very black indeed.

On Nov 3, 5:22 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> > I did read recently that the SR-71 was black to
> > reduce the surface temperature by increasing
> > radiation away from the aircraft.
silverf sur
> ???
>
> I thought black increased surface temperature?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

B A R R Y

November 3rd 07, 09:37 PM

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 09:31:29 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>
>Fiberglass airplanes almost demand it. If they get too hot, the epoxy gets
>hot, and gets weak. Very weak.
>

Some of the new Cirrus versions are not white.

Bob Noel

November 3rd 07, 09:39 PM

In article >,
(Paul Tomblin) wrote:

> In a previous article, "Bob Gardner" > said:
> >It gives the manufacturer more options in selecting trim colors, just as all
> >Boeing jets come out of the factory green.
>
> I thought Boeing jets come out of the factory covered in Zinc Chromate
> rather than paint?

I thought Zinc Chromate is green. At least the Zinc Chromate I have is green.

--
Bob Noel
(goodness, please trim replies!!!)

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 3rd 07, 09:41 PM

Judah wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Judah wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> You DO realize of course that by bringing this up you have opened a
>>>> whole new source of potential revenue for Al Sharpton and Jesse
>>>> Jackson?????????
>>>> :-))
>>>
>>> So long as there are no Black aircraft that have been specifically
>>> attacked by White aircraft this should not be an issue.
>>
>> Well....could be......and I know Twanna Brawley isn't an airplane, and
>> she most certainly wasn't attacked, but lo and behold......who shows up
>> to "save the day and "make it all right again" but Sharpton!!!! :-))
>> DH
>
> Tawana Brawley claimed to have been raped, which certainly made Sharpton
> see Green. The allegations were later proved untrue and everyone involved
> (especially Sharpton) walked away quite Red-faced.
>
> I'm Green enough that before the incident, I saw the world through Rose-
> colored glasses.
>
> Quite frankly, this whole talk about Sharpton and Jackson is just a Red
> herring anyway, because they are both too Yellow to ever fly an airplane.
>
> I just hope this conversation doesn't give them the Green light to start
> profiteering from the aviation industry.
>
> Blue skies...

I do believe this thread is getting to be quite colorful.

--
Dudley Henriques

Morgans[_2_]

November 3rd 07, 10:35 PM

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 09:31:29 -0400, "Morgans"
> > wrote:
>
>>
>>Fiberglass airplanes almost demand it. If they get too hot, the epoxy
>>gets
>>hot, and gets weak. Very weak.
>>
>
>
> Some of the new Cirrus versions are not white.

Are they cured in autoclaves?

Epoxy can be designed to stay stronger at higher temperatures, but
generally, they are then required to cure in autoclaves, with the high
temperature and pressure making the higher yield temperatures possible.
--
Jim in NC

Morgans[_2_]

November 3rd 07, 10:38 PM

>> >It gives the manufacturer more options in selecting trim colors, just as
>> >all
>> >Boeing jets come out of the factory green.
>>
>> I thought Boeing jets come out of the factory covered in Zinc Chromate
>> rather than paint?
>
> I thought Zinc Chromate is green. At least the Zinc Chromate I have is
> green.

Right; and the problem (or reason) for that statement is...?
--
Jim in NC

[email protected]

November 3rd 07, 11:09 PM

On 3 Nov, 21:26, Tony > wrote:
> No Jay, black is more absorbant and more emissive than a shiny
> surface. If it's sun light heating you're trying to reduce, you'd want
> to reflect away the energy with a reflective surface. If, though, the
> thing you're worried about is hotter than its surroundings and you are
> interested in radiating the heat away, you'd want increased
> emissivity, and make it black. A black body radiater is considered
> perfect, and it is very black indeed.
>
> On Nov 3, 5:22 pm, Jay Honeck > wrote:
>
>
>
> > > I did read recently that the SR-71 was black to
> > > reduce the surface temperature by increasing
> > > radiation away from the aircraft.
> silverf sur
> > ???
>
> > I thought black increased surface temperature?

Mixed top and bottom posts -oh dear.

> > I thought black increased surface temperature?

It depends - is the most complete answer. I don't
have a canned response but I will try to make
something up.

I think that it is true to say that a black surface
both accepts incoming radiation more effectively
and also radiates more effectively than a white
surface. If you had an aeroplane with a heater inside
it would be warmer inside (in any particular
experimental setup) if it was white than if it was black.

The SR-71 has an internal heater (even though
the source is external air the heat we care about
ends up inside the structure) that is heating it up
and it is cooled more effectively if it is black.
This is of course counterbalanced by a greater
absorbtion of solar radiation but this effect is
insignificant compared to the heating power
(I incorrectly refered to enengy earlier but
it is power - the rate of energy transfer - that
matters here) delivered by the
aerodynamic heating at mach whatever.

In the case of a light aircraft where aerodynamic
heating is negligable the incoming solar radiation
effect dominates and white is cooler.

By the way I don't know for a fact that
the surface finish makes any difference
to the outgoing radiation.
I have heard that it does but I don't know
from first hand measurements or through any
reliable schooling (which would presumably have
involved first hand measurements).

I do know that it affects the absorbed radiation,
well that's obvious to anybody.

Finally, parked on the tarmac a SR-71 would
be cooler if painted white.

If you plan to take your machine to mach 3,
better start planning that new paint job now.

Morgans[_2_]

November 4th 07, 12:01 AM

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote

> I do believe this thread is getting to be quite colorful.

I must say that I like it a lot more than the other recent thread that took
a definite "brown" tone to it!
--
Jim in NC

Morgans[_2_]

November 4th 07, 12:47 AM

"Richard Riley" > wrote
> If you're talking about this one
>
> http://www.maddyhome.com/cozy/chapter?c=25&s=5
>
> It's the same data, just recharted.

No, I'm almost certain it was a study made by the fiberglass boat people.

This version of the data is a bit easier to see, so that is a good thing.
<g>

The thing that really stuck out from the study that I remember is that there
was a larger jump from white to yellow, even. It really pointed out why
white is so important if you don't want solar gain. I don't know why it
would be any different than the study you listed, and from how the data was
gathered, I would imagine that this data is more accurate.

Of course, it would also make a big difference in "how yellow" the yellow
is, too. A very intense yellow could well be more heat absorbing than a
"mellower yellow." <g>
--
Jim in NC

Jay Honeck

November 4th 07, 12:48 AM

> If you plan to take your machine to mach 3,
> better start planning that new paint job now.

Dang. And here I just shot my budget on that Pulsar installation.
Guess Atlas' new Mach 3.3 ablative paint will have to wait...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 4th 07, 12:49 AM

Morgans wrote:
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote
>
>> I do believe this thread is getting to be quite colorful.
>
> I must say that I like it a lot more than the other recent thread that took
> a definite "brown" tone to it!

Yes, that one DID seem to enhance a certain spirit of "comoderie" around
here
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Morgans[_2_]

November 4th 07, 12:53 AM

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote
>
> Yes, that one DID seem to enhance a certain spirit of "comoderie" around
> here
> :-))

Well, that's one way to put it.

I think the thread stunk! <g>
--
Jim in NC

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 4th 07, 02:17 AM

Morgans wrote:
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote
>> Yes, that one DID seem to enhance a certain spirit of "comoderie" around
>> here
>> :-))
>
> Well, that's one way to put it.
>
> I think the thread stunk! <g>

You win. I'm eating a Baby Ruth!!!

--
Dudley Henriques

quietguy

November 4th 07, 03:17 AM

Another aspect of the issue is painting things in the engine
compartment:

http://www.sacskyranch.com/paint.htm

This source concurs with an earlier poster in stating that it matters
whether the object is warmer or colder than its surroundings. The
author also points out that what the paint is made of matters: since
most of the energy transfer at temperatures we're interested in occurs
via conduction a paint's insulating properties may be more important
than its color, especially for outward energy transfer, where there's
almost no reflection of radiation at the component/paint interface.

Angelo Campanella[_2_]

November 4th 07, 04:08 AM

wrote:
> By the way I don't know for a fact that
> the surface finish makes any difference
> to the outgoing radiation.

I agree. I have taken it that the infrared emissivity (the capability
to radiate energy) is fairly high for most objects. The wavelength of
such infrared, corresponding to 300K (30 C or about 85F, the
temoperature that a body's surface becomes in the sunlight) is about
five microns (visible light wavelength is 1/2 micron). I mean that this
1/2 vs 5 microns wavelength difference is so great that the emissivity
for infrared is completely different than the reflectivity of light by
paint. The reality is that the pigments (any color except white) used in
paints will absorb light, while white (which is not a color at all but
the capability to scatter light to go back where it came from) does not
absorb light.

Sunlight is a broad band of wavelengths, but perhaps 90% of its energy
is in the visible range (1/3 to 2/3 microns), were pigments are
purposefully chosen to absorb. Of curse, black paint absorbs best, but
only yellow and the pastels will absorb noticeably less than black.

I knew a Bonanza owner years ago that had moved from Alaska to Ohio,
bringing the Bonanza with him. He had already painted it black so that
the snow would melt most quickly in winter.

> I have heard that it does but I don't know
> from first hand measurements or through any
> reliable schooling (which would presumably have
> involved first hand measurements).

Years ago, I rented an old closed bed truck for a special job on
company property, parked all the time. Its box body was red, it got
mighty hot inside the box while we we using it. I had the techs paint
the box body white. The temperature in the box was consistently 15F
cooler as a result.

Angelo Campanella

Mxsmanic

November 4th 07, 12:45 PM

Tony writes:

> Your assumption is that solar heating is a factor. If the aerodynamic
> heating is high, one could argue radiative heat transfer would be
> enhanced with black body radiation. The SR 71 is, you might notice,
> black, but that may be the result of long wavelength (longer than
> optical at least) absorbance considrations.

I seem to recall that one reason for painting the SR-71 black was indeed to
improve heat radiation, but I'm not sure. However the flight envelope of the
SR-71 is quite different from that of an ordinary jet (and even more so from a
small piston aircraft). Aerodynamic heating might raise the temperature of an
ordinary jet by tens of degrees, whereas in the SR-71 it raises it by hundreds
of degrees, AFAICR.

Mxsmanic

November 4th 07, 12:49 PM

Jay Honeck writes:

> I thought black increased surface temperature?

When it absorbs radiation, yes, it does. When it radiates radiation, it
lowers temperature.

A black-painted object is an approximation of a blackbody, a theoretical
object in physics that absorbs all radiation hitting it. A blackbody can emit
any radiation it can absorb, and since it absorbs all wavelengths, it emits
all wavelengths.

So a black airplane can be heating by solar radiation hitting it, but it can
also radiate heat to outer space with greater efficiency. If the primary
source of heating is solar radiation, as it may well be with ordinary
aircraft, a light color will keep the aircraft cooler. If the primary source
of heating is aerodynamic friction, as it might be with a very high-speed
aircraft, a dark color will help radiate that heat away from the aircraft.

Astronauts always wear white because it keeps temperature more even. The
white color reflects sunlight, reducing direct heating by sunlight; and the
white color also radiates heat poorly, keeping the part of the astronaut
that's in the shade a bit warmer.

Big John

November 4th 07, 01:41 PM

My Mooney was orange and white. The white on top of fuselage helped
keep cabin temp down on the ramp in the summer and the combination was
easy to see in the air and also in summer vegetation (a la Faccett)
and winter snow if bird went down.

Combination looked good like and airplane should, so best of all
worlds.

Big John
************************************************** *******

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 17:35:15 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

>Jay Honeck > wrote in news:1194095788.943020.167300
:
>
>> My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
>> her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
>> really doesn't add up, does it?
>>
>> Automobiles, motorcycles, boats -- you name it -- all come in a
>> rainbow of colors. Why are 99.5% of all planes (except for some cool
>> old classics and some neat homebuilts) white?
>> --
>
>
>My last one wasn't and my next one won't be..
>
>Bertie

Tina

November 4th 07, 02:27 PM

Mx, who earlier wrote

Jay Honeck writes:
> My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> really doesn't add up, does it?

Actually it does, at least for high-speed aircraft. They are already
heated
externally by aerodynamic friction, and letting the sun beat down on
them at
high altitude with a black paint job would only heat them up more.

finally got a physics question right.

For what it's worth, the radiation transfer depends on the difference
of the absolute temperature raised to the 4th power, something like
K*(T1^4 -T2^4), where T1 and T2 are the absolute temperatures. Think
of T1 as the temperature of the incremental part of the body in
question, and T2 some kind of weighed average of the environment it's
radiating into. K is a measure of the emmissivity of the bodies -- if
the body is black it's higher, so if the airplane is hotter than the
radiative ambient you would want it black. By the way, it's worth
remembering the radiative ambient is NOT the temperature of the nearby
air.

Can't believe I remember that stuff!

Judah

November 4th 07, 03:06 PM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> I do believe this thread is getting to be quite colorful.

I'd have said off-color...

Bertie the Bunyip

November 4th 07, 03:10 PM

On Nov 3, 6:41 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Jay Honeck writes:
> > My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> > her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> > really doesn't add up, does it?
>
> Actually it does, at least for high-speed aircraft. They are already heated
> externally by aerodynamic friction, and letting the sun beat down on them at
> high altitude with a black paint job would only heat them up more.

God you're a moron.

>
> However, some black liveries are in service, so apparently it's not enough to
> cause a problem. The old Playboy corporate jet was entirely black, and I
> think there have been a few others.
>
> For small GA aircraft, I can't think of any obvious reason why they should be
> painted white.

Not knowing anything never stopped you mouthing off about it before.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip

November 4th 07, 03:11 PM

On Nov 4, 1:49 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Jay Honeck writes:
> > I thought black increased surface temperature?
>
> When it absorbs radiation, yes, it does. When it radiates radiation, it
> lowers temperature.
>
> A black-painted object is an approximation of a blackbody, a theoretical
> object in physics that absorbs all radiation hitting it. A blackbody can emit
> any radiation it can absorb, and since it absorbs all wavelengths, it emits
> all wavelengths.
>
> So a black airplane can be heating by solar radiation hitting it, but it can
> also radiate heat to outer space with greater efficiency. If the primary
> source of heating is solar radiation, as it may well be with ordinary
> aircraft, a light color will keep the aircraft cooler. If the primary source
> of heating is aerodynamic friction, as it might be with a very high-speed
> aircraft, a dark color will help radiate that heat away from the aircraft.
>
> Astronauts always wear white because it keeps temperature more even. The
> white color reflects sunlight, reducing direct heating by sunlight; and the
> white color also radiates heat poorly, keeping the part of the astronaut
> that's in the shade a bit warmer.

God you're an idiot.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip

November 4th 07, 03:12 PM

On Nov 4, 1:45 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Tony writes:
> > Your assumption is that solar heating is a factor. If the aerodynamic
> > heating is high, one could argue radiative heat transfer would be
> > enhanced with black body radiation. The SR 71 is, you might notice,
> > black, but that may be the result of long wavelength (longer than
> > optical at least) absorbance considrations.
>
> I seem to recall that one reason for painting the SR-71 black was indeed to
> improve heat radiation,

Nope;

Bertie

RST Engineering

November 4th 07, 04:10 PM

So far the conversation has led to some interesting threads on solar
reflectivity and the temperature of the airplane, and they are (for the most
part) correct.

HOWEVER, the one thing that has been overlooked is that the reflectivity of
the sunlight makes a white aircraft FAR easier to spot in the air.

Anybody who was with the gaggle from Iowa City in '05 will agree that we
were all within a quarter mile of each other and I could clearly see most of
the others, while my blue 182 was damned near invisible to everybody else.

Even aviation orange or fire engine green isn't as easy to spot AT A
DISTANCE as white.

Jim

Matt Whiting

November 4th 07, 07:43 PM

RST Engineering wrote:
> So far the conversation has led to some interesting threads on solar
> reflectivity and the temperature of the airplane, and they are (for the most
> part) correct.
>
> HOWEVER, the one thing that has been overlooked is that the reflectivity of
> the sunlight makes a white aircraft FAR easier to spot in the air.
>
> Anybody who was with the gaggle from Iowa City in '05 will agree that we
> were all within a quarter mile of each other and I could clearly see most of
> the others, while my blue 182 was damned near invisible to everybody else.
>
> Even aviation orange or fire engine green isn't as easy to spot AT A
> DISTANCE as white.
>
> Jim
>
>

The background color has as much to do with it as the object color.
Black text on white and white text on black are both easy to read. A
while airplane against a cloudy sky is very hard to see as is a blue
airplane against a blue sky or against water.

Matt

Mxsmanic

November 4th 07, 08:33 PM

Airbus writes:

> I love the authoritative tone with which you blatantly contradict yourself.

High-speed = subsonic but fast, e.g., 737
Very high-speed = supersonic, e.g., SR-71

There's a big difference in aerodynamic heating between the two. If
commercial airliners had more of a need to radiate than to reflect, they'd
already be painted black.

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 4th 07, 09:34 PM

Big John > wrote in
:

>
> My Mooney was orange and white. The white on top of fuselage helped
> keep cabin temp down on the ramp in the summer and the combination was
> easy to see in the air and also in summer vegetation (a la Faccett)
> and winter snow if bird went down.
>
> Combination looked good like and airplane should, so best of all
> worlds.
>

Not dayglo orange, I hope!

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 4th 07, 09:36 PM

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Airbus writes:
>
>> I love the authoritative tone with which you blatantly contradict
>> yourself.
>
> High-speed = subsonic but fast, e.g., 737
> Very high-speed = supersonic, e.g., SR-71
>
> There's a big difference in aerodynamic heating between the two. If
> commercial airliners had more of a need to radiate than to reflect,
> they'd already be painted black.
>

No, they wouldn't.

Fjukkwit.

Ever seen Concorde?

Bertie

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 4th 07, 11:03 PM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Big John > wrote in
> :
>
>> My Mooney was orange and white. The white on top of fuselage helped
>> keep cabin temp down on the ramp in the summer and the combination was
>> easy to see in the air and also in summer vegetation (a la Faccett)
>> and winter snow if bird went down.
>>
>> Combination looked good like and airplane should, so best of all
>> worlds.
>>
>
> Not dayglo orange, I hope!
>
>
> Bertie

For a minute here I thought you guys were flying a creamcicle :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 4th 07, 11:24 PM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Big John > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> My Mooney was orange and white. The white on top of fuselage helped
>>> keep cabin temp down on the ramp in the summer and the combination was
>>> easy to see in the air and also in summer vegetation (a la Faccett)
>>> and winter snow if bird went down.
>>>
>>> Combination looked good like and airplane should, so best of all
>>> worlds.
>>>
>>
>> Not dayglo orange, I hope!
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> For a minute here I thought you guys were flying a creamcicle :-)
>

I love creamsicles. But not in airplanes.. Sticky.

Tehre are some intersting nicknames given to some airline paintjobs.
Braniff, for instance, was called the Jelly bean fleet.

Even I won't say in print what World Wide Express airplanes are known as,
though..

Bertie

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 12:03 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Big John > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> My Mooney was orange and white. The white on top of fuselage helped
>>>> keep cabin temp down on the ramp in the summer and the combination was
>>>> easy to see in the air and also in summer vegetation (a la Faccett)
>>>> and winter snow if bird went down.
>>>>
>>>> Combination looked good like and airplane should, so best of all
>>>> worlds.
>>>>
>>> Not dayglo orange, I hope!
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> For a minute here I thought you guys were flying a creamcicle :-)
>>
>
>
> I love creamsicles. But not in airplanes.. Sticky.
>
> Tehre are some intersting nicknames given to some airline paintjobs.
> Braniff, for instance, was called the Jelly bean fleet.
>
> Even I won't say in print what World Wide Express airplanes are known as,
> though..
>
> Bertie

I love those damn things too. I actually tried to get one down standing
on the ramp at Phoenix during a July air show weekend. The guy handed it
to me off the truck. It was smoking like a bomb. I peeled off the paper
in what had to be 120 degrees coming off the ramp. The damn thing melted
right in front of my eyes. I mean I never got a lick out of it. It
actually "flowed" off the stick and over my hand.
Oh well, stupid is as stupid does I guess. Anyway, I never tried that
one again.
Used to love to watch the fans guzzle down ice cold beer in the heat and
drop like flies. More medics than fans a lot of the time :-)

Didn't the wife of the Braniff CEO design some horrible paint job for
their airplanes or am I thinking of another major carrier?

--
Dudley Henriques

Marty Shapiro

November 5th 07, 12:53 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Big John > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> My Mooney was orange and white. The white on top of fuselage
>>>>> helped keep cabin temp down on the ramp in the summer and the
>>>>> combination was easy to see in the air and also in summer
>>>>> vegetation (a la Faccett) and winter snow if bird went down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Combination looked good like and airplane should, so best of all
>>>>> worlds.
>>>>>
>>>> Not dayglo orange, I hope!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>> For a minute here I thought you guys were flying a creamcicle :-)
>>>
>>
>>
>> I love creamsicles. But not in airplanes.. Sticky.
>>
>> Tehre are some intersting nicknames given to some airline paintjobs.
>> Braniff, for instance, was called the Jelly bean fleet.
>>
>> Even I won't say in print what World Wide Express airplanes are known
>> as, though..
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I love those damn things too. I actually tried to get one down
> standing on the ramp at Phoenix during a July air show weekend. The
> guy handed it to me off the truck. It was smoking like a bomb. I
> peeled off the paper in what had to be 120 degrees coming off the
> ramp. The damn thing melted right in front of my eyes. I mean I never
> got a lick out of it. It actually "flowed" off the stick and over my
> hand. Oh well, stupid is as stupid does I guess. Anyway, I never tried
> that one again.
> Used to love to watch the fans guzzle down ice cold beer in the heat
> and drop like flies. More medics than fans a lot of the time :-)
>
> Didn't the wife of the Braniff CEO design some horrible paint job for
> their airplanes or am I thinking of another major carrier?
>

Sounds like the Braniff's DC-8 with the paint design by Alexander
Calder.

--
Marty Shapiro
Silicon Rallye Inc.

(remove SPAMNOT to email me)

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 01:05 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Big John > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> My Mooney was orange and white. The white on top of fuselage
>>>>> helped keep cabin temp down on the ramp in the summer and the
>>>>> combination was easy to see in the air and also in summer
>>>>> vegetation (a la Faccett) and winter snow if bird went down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Combination looked good like and airplane should, so best of all
>>>>> worlds.
>>>>>
>>>> Not dayglo orange, I hope!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>> For a minute here I thought you guys were flying a creamcicle :-)
>>>
>>
>>
>> I love creamsicles. But not in airplanes.. Sticky.
>>
>> Tehre are some intersting nicknames given to some airline paintjobs.
>> Braniff, for instance, was called the Jelly bean fleet.
>>
>> Even I won't say in print what World Wide Express airplanes are known
>> as, though..
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I love those damn things too. I actually tried to get one down
> standing on the ramp at Phoenix during a July air show weekend. The
> guy handed it to me off the truck. It was smoking like a bomb. I
> peeled off the paper in what had to be 120 degrees coming off the
> ramp. The damn thing melted right in front of my eyes. I mean I never
> got a lick out of it. It actually "flowed" off the stick and over my
> hand. Oh well, stupid is as stupid does I guess. Anyway, I never tried
> that one again.
> Used to love to watch the fans guzzle down ice cold beer in the heat
> and drop like flies. More medics than fans a lot of the time :-)
>
> Didn't the wife of the Braniff CEO design some horrible paint job for
> their airplanes or am I thinking of another major carrier?
>

You may be thinking of the Alexander Calder airplane. I actually liked
it. He's most famous for his colorful mobiles. It's a damn sight better
than a lot of the liveries you see around today, IMO, but it's hard to
beat the classics schemes from the early days of jet travel for
producing a nice finish to a nice looking airplane.

Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great Pumpkin"

Bertie

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 01:09 AM

Marty Shapiro wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>> Big John > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> My Mooney was orange and white. The white on top of fuselage
>>>>>> helped keep cabin temp down on the ramp in the summer and the
>>>>>> combination was easy to see in the air and also in summer
>>>>>> vegetation (a la Faccett) and winter snow if bird went down.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Combination looked good like and airplane should, so best of all
>>>>>> worlds.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Not dayglo orange, I hope!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>> For a minute here I thought you guys were flying a creamcicle :-)
>>>>
>>>
>>> I love creamsicles. But not in airplanes.. Sticky.
>>>
>>> Tehre are some intersting nicknames given to some airline paintjobs.
>>> Braniff, for instance, was called the Jelly bean fleet.
>>>
>>> Even I won't say in print what World Wide Express airplanes are known
>>> as, though..
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> I love those damn things too. I actually tried to get one down
>> standing on the ramp at Phoenix during a July air show weekend. The
>> guy handed it to me off the truck. It was smoking like a bomb. I
>> peeled off the paper in what had to be 120 degrees coming off the
>> ramp. The damn thing melted right in front of my eyes. I mean I never
>> got a lick out of it. It actually "flowed" off the stick and over my
>> hand. Oh well, stupid is as stupid does I guess. Anyway, I never tried
>> that one again.
>> Used to love to watch the fans guzzle down ice cold beer in the heat
>> and drop like flies. More medics than fans a lot of the time :-)
>>
>> Didn't the wife of the Braniff CEO design some horrible paint job for
>> their airplanes or am I thinking of another major carrier?
>>
>
> Sounds like the Braniff's DC-8 with the paint design by Alexander
> Calder.
>
I think that might be it. I remember my wife telling me that if I bought
a shirt like that she wouldn't go out with me :-) Those things were so
loud you needed ear muffs to look at them :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 01:10 AM

Marty Shapiro > wrote in
:

>>
>> Didn't the wife of the Braniff CEO design some horrible paint job for
>> their airplanes or am I thinking of another major carrier?
>>
>
> Sounds like the Braniff's DC-8 with the paint design by
> Alexander
> Calder.
>

Here's a bit about his designs.

http://www.braniffpages.com/calder/calder.html

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 01:25 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

>
> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great Pumpkin"
>
>
> Bertie

I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the left seat
job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat MUST have been
tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Morgans[_2_]

November 5th 07, 01:28 AM

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote

> Here's a bit about his designs.
> http://www.braniffpages.com/calder/calder.html

Here's some more wild colors.
http://www.dc-8jet.com/bndc862calder.htm

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 02:03 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Marty Shapiro wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>> Big John > wrote in
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My Mooney was orange and white. The white on top of fuselage
>>>>>>> helped keep cabin temp down on the ramp in the summer and the
>>>>>>> combination was easy to see in the air and also in summer
>>>>>>> vegetation (a la Faccett) and winter snow if bird went down.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Combination looked good like and airplane should, so best of all
>>>>>>> worlds.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not dayglo orange, I hope!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>> For a minute here I thought you guys were flying a creamcicle :-)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I love creamsicles. But not in airplanes.. Sticky.
>>>>
>>>> Tehre are some intersting nicknames given to some airline
>>>> paintjobs. Braniff, for instance, was called the Jelly bean fleet.
>>>>
>>>> Even I won't say in print what World Wide Express airplanes are
>>>> known as, though..
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>> I love those damn things too. I actually tried to get one down
>>> standing on the ramp at Phoenix during a July air show weekend. The
>>> guy handed it to me off the truck. It was smoking like a bomb. I
>>> peeled off the paper in what had to be 120 degrees coming off the
>>> ramp. The damn thing melted right in front of my eyes. I mean I
>>> never got a lick out of it. It actually "flowed" off the stick and
>>> over my hand. Oh well, stupid is as stupid does I guess. Anyway, I
>>> never tried that one again.
>>> Used to love to watch the fans guzzle down ice cold beer in the heat
>>> and drop like flies. More medics than fans a lot of the time :-)
>>>
>>> Didn't the wife of the Braniff CEO design some horrible paint job
>>> for their airplanes or am I thinking of another major carrier?
>>>
>>
>> Sounds like the Braniff's DC-8 with the paint design by
>> Alexander
>> Calder.
>>
> I think that might be it. I remember my wife telling me that if I
> bought a shirt like that she wouldn't go out with me :-)

So of course you wore one every time you went flying.

I have a few of those. They won't even stand near me if I'm wearing one
just in case someone takes a picture.

Those things
> were so loud you needed ear muffs to look at them :-)
>

Well, like many things thye look good in their place.

Ever bought something you thought looked great while on vacation and
couldn't find any place to put it whne you got home?

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 02:06 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>>
>> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great Pumpkin"
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the left seat
> job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat MUST have been
> tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))
>

groan!

bertie

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 02:35 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:

> Ever bought something you thought looked great while on vacation and
> couldn't find any place to put it whne you got home?

No problem. My wife ALWAYS finds the place to put all that stuff. I just
have to hide all of it before she puts it there :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 02:37 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>
>>> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great Pumpkin"
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the left seat
>> job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat MUST have been
>> tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))
>>
>
> groan!
>
>
> bertie

Hey...ya have to admit......"Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin are
arriving at gate 6" kind of has a certain "ring" to it :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 02:45 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>
>>>> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great Pumpkin"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>> I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the left
>>> seat job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat MUST
>>> have been tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))
>>>
>>
>> groan!
>>
>>
>> bertie
>
> Hey...ya have to admit......"Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin are
> arriving at gate 6" kind of has a certain "ring" to it :-))
>

I don't think the general public called it that, just the employees. I'd
hate to have a name that mathced this airplanes nickname, though.

http://www.historyofaircargo.com/i-TNT-Airbus-A300B4F.-TNT.html

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 02:47 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in news:GsudnfE-
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>
>> Ever bought something you thought looked great while on vacation and
>> couldn't find any place to put it whne you got home?
>
> No problem. My wife ALWAYS finds the place to put all that stuff. I just
> have to hide all of it before she puts it there :-))
>
>

Aaargh!

We have a shelf at work for guys to bring back crap form tourist traps.
It's full of eiffel towers, burros, I (HEART) this place or that..

Bertie

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 03:11 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in news:GsudnfE-
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>
>>> Ever bought something you thought looked great while on vacation and
>>> couldn't find any place to put it whne you got home?
>> No problem. My wife ALWAYS finds the place to put all that stuff. I just
>> have to hide all of it before she puts it there :-))
>>
>>
>
>
> Aaargh!
>
> We have a shelf at work for guys to bring back crap form tourist traps.
> It's full of eiffel towers, burros, I (HEART) this place or that..
>
>
> Bertie

I used to be good friends with the Chief Stew (gorgeous girl BTW)from
the old Capitol Airways (DC8 charter operation out of Smyrna Ga. She
would bring back from every trip a virtual ton of those little bottles
of booze unless they were headed for Shannon. The Irish always drank the
plane dry :-)). I probably had one of the world's largest collections of
the little guys. It's amazing what you pick up at different places when
you're full time in aviation :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 03:13 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great Pumpkin"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>> I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the left
>>>> seat job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat MUST
>>>> have been tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))
>>>>
>>> groan!
>>>
>>>
>>> bertie
>> Hey...ya have to admit......"Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin are
>> arriving at gate 6" kind of has a certain "ring" to it :-))
>>
>
> I don't think the general public called it that, just the employees. I'd
> hate to have a name that mathced this airplanes nickname, though.
>
> http://www.historyofaircargo.com/i-TNT-Airbus-A300B4F.-TNT.html
>
>
> Bertie

:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 03:18 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in news:GsudnfE-
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ever bought something you thought looked great while on vacation
>>>> and couldn't find any place to put it whne you got home?
>>> No problem. My wife ALWAYS finds the place to put all that stuff. I
>>> just have to hide all of it before she puts it there :-))
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Aaargh!
>>
>> We have a shelf at work for guys to bring back crap form tourist
>> traps. It's full of eiffel towers, burros, I (HEART) this place or
>> that..
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> I used to be good friends with the Chief Stew (gorgeous girl BTW)from
> the old Capitol Airways (DC8 charter operation out of Smyrna Ga. She
> would bring back from every trip a virtual ton of those little bottles
> of booze unless they were headed for Shannon. The Irish always drank
> the plane dry :-)). I probably had one of the world's largest
> collections of the little guys. It's amazing what you pick up at
> different places when you're full time in aviation :-)

I've been on Capital as a passenger years ago. some of those girls were
rough!

The ones I met allhad brooklyn accents and attitudes to match.

Bertie
>

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 03:18 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great Pumpkin"
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>> I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the left
>>>>> seat job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat MUST
>>>>> have been tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))
>>>>>
>>>> groan!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bertie
>>> Hey...ya have to admit......"Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin are
>>> arriving at gate 6" kind of has a certain "ring" to it :-))
>>>
>>
>> I don't think the general public called it that, just the employees.
>> I'd hate to have a name that mathced this airplanes nickname, though.
>>
>> http://www.historyofaircargo.com/i-TNT-Airbus-A300B4F.-TNT.html
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
>
>:-))
>

All you need is a bit of string to make the illusion complete.

Bertie

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 03:25 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in news:GsudnfE-
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Ever bought something you thought looked great while on vacation
>>>>> and couldn't find any place to put it whne you got home?
>>>> No problem. My wife ALWAYS finds the place to put all that stuff. I
>>>> just have to hide all of it before she puts it there :-))
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Aaargh!
>>>
>>> We have a shelf at work for guys to bring back crap form tourist
>>> traps. It's full of eiffel towers, burros, I (HEART) this place or
>>> that..
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> I used to be good friends with the Chief Stew (gorgeous girl BTW)from
>> the old Capitol Airways (DC8 charter operation out of Smyrna Ga. She
>> would bring back from every trip a virtual ton of those little bottles
>> of booze unless they were headed for Shannon. The Irish always drank
>> the plane dry :-)). I probably had one of the world's largest
>> collections of the little guys. It's amazing what you pick up at
>> different places when you're full time in aviation :-)
>
>
> I've been on Capital as a passenger years ago. some of those girls were
> rough!
>
> The ones I met allhad brooklyn accents and attitudes to match.
>
> Bertie
>

They ran them through a training program at New Castle Delaware. Most of
them that I met were young and naive but eager to play stew and make the
bucks.
The gal I'm talking about was a bit older, gorgeous, and savvy as hell.
She had a mouth like an iron worker and took no prisoners up front. A
lot of the gang couldn't stand her but I liked her. We always got along.

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 03:28 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great Pumpkin"
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>> I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the left
>>>>>> seat job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat MUST
>>>>>> have been tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))
>>>>>>
>>>>> groan!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> bertie
>>>> Hey...ya have to admit......"Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin are
>>>> arriving at gate 6" kind of has a certain "ring" to it :-))
>>>>
>>> I don't think the general public called it that, just the employees.
>>> I'd hate to have a name that mathced this airplanes nickname, though.
>>>
>>> http://www.historyofaircargo.com/i-TNT-Airbus-A300B4F.-TNT.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>
>> :-))
>>
>
> All you need is a bit of string to make the illusion complete.
>
>
> Bertie

Damn Bertie, I must be getting old but I can't make the connection.
I know I'm going to be sorry I said this, but give me another hint
:-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 03:46 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great Pumpkin"
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>> I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the
left
>>>>>>> seat job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat
MUST
>>>>>>> have been tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> groan!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bertie
>>>>> Hey...ya have to admit......"Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin
are
>>>>> arriving at gate 6" kind of has a certain "ring" to it :-))
>>>>>
>>>> I don't think the general public called it that, just the
employees.
>>>> I'd hate to have a name that mathced this airplanes nickname,
though.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.historyofaircargo.com/i-TNT-Airbus-A300B4F.-TNT.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>>
>>> :-))
>>>
>>
>> All you need is a bit of string to make the illusion complete.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Damn Bertie, I must be getting old but I can't make the connection.
> I know I'm going to be sorry I said this, but give me another hint
>:-)
>

Oh sorry, thought you got it.

Kinda sorry I started this now!

OK, the string goes on the tail.

Bertie

Morgans[_2_]

November 5th 07, 03:48 AM

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote
>
> Damn Bertie, I must be getting old but I can't make the connection.
> I know I'm going to be sorry I said this, but give me another hint
> :-)

You will be!

Think of something that requires string for removal.

See!

I'm not-a-gonna-signa-my name, ona-dis-one-a!

</8~))

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 03:49 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great Pumpkin"
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>>> I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the
> left
>>>>>>>> seat job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat
> MUST
>>>>>>>> have been tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> groan!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> bertie
>>>>>> Hey...ya have to admit......"Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin
> are
>>>>>> arriving at gate 6" kind of has a certain "ring" to it :-))
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the general public called it that, just the
> employees.
>>>>> I'd hate to have a name that mathced this airplanes nickname,
> though.
>>>>> http://www.historyofaircargo.com/i-TNT-Airbus-A300B4F.-TNT.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>> :-))
>>>>
>>> All you need is a bit of string to make the illusion complete.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> Damn Bertie, I must be getting old but I can't make the connection.
>> I know I'm going to be sorry I said this, but give me another hint
>> :-)
>>
>
> Oh sorry, thought you got it.
>
> Kinda sorry I started this now!
>
> OK, the string goes on the tail.
>
>
> Bertie
>

I'm going to take a wild guess (knowing you like I do :-))) and take a
shot that this thing just might look like a used Tampon???????
:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 03:49 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

>
> They ran them through a training program at New Castle Delaware. Most of
> them that I met were young and naive but eager to play stew and make the
> bucks.
> The gal I'm talking about was a bit older, gorgeous, and savvy as hell.
> She had a mouth like an iron worker and took no prisoners up front. A
> lot of the gang couldn't stand her but I liked her. We always got along.
>
>

Hmm, might have met her. I went up to the "bar" to get another drink,
hopefully for free and asked if I might have another whatever it was I was
drinking and was told by the stew, sitting in her seat with her shoes off
and feet up against the bulkead while she did her nals "yeh, inda drawah,
get it yerself, two bucks"

Bertie

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 03:50 AM

Morgans wrote:
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote
>> Damn Bertie, I must be getting old but I can't make the connection.
>> I know I'm going to be sorry I said this, but give me another hint
>> :-)
>
> You will be!
>
> Think of something that requires string for removal.
>
> See!
>
> I'm not-a-gonna-signa-my name, ona-dis-one-a!
>
> </8~))
>
>

I got it. I got it!!! Beat you by 2 seconds :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 03:55 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>
>> They ran them through a training program at New Castle Delaware. Most of
>> them that I met were young and naive but eager to play stew and make the
>> bucks.
>> The gal I'm talking about was a bit older, gorgeous, and savvy as hell.
>> She had a mouth like an iron worker and took no prisoners up front. A
>> lot of the gang couldn't stand her but I liked her. We always got along.
>>
>>
>
> Hmm, might have met her. I went up to the "bar" to get another drink,
> hopefully for free and asked if I might have another whatever it was I was
> drinking and was told by the stew, sitting in her seat with her shoes off
> and feet up against the bulkead while she did her nals "yeh, inda drawah,
> get it yerself, two bucks"
>
> Bertie
>
You might have at that! Sounds exactly like Carol to me. :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 5th 07, 04:18 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in news:-
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great
Pumpkin"
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>>>> I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the
>> left
>>>>>>>>> seat job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat
>> MUST
>>>>>>>>> have been tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> groan!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> bertie
>>>>>>> Hey...ya have to admit......"Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin
>> are
>>>>>>> arriving at gate 6" kind of has a certain "ring" to it :-))
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the general public called it that, just the
>> employees.
>>>>>> I'd hate to have a name that mathced this airplanes nickname,
>> though.
>>>>>> http://www.historyofaircargo.com/i-TNT-Airbus-A300B4F.-TNT.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>> :-))
>>>>>
>>>> All you need is a bit of string to make the illusion complete.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Bertie
>>> Damn Bertie, I must be getting old but I can't make the connection.
>>> I know I'm going to be sorry I said this, but give me another hint
>>> :-)
>>>
>>
>> Oh sorry, thought you got it.
>>
>> Kinda sorry I started this now!
>>
>> OK, the string goes on the tail.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>>
>
> I'm going to take a wild guess (knowing you like I do :-))) and take a
> shot that this thing just might look like a used Tampon???????
>:-))
>

Hey, i didn't invent the tag! I'm just passing it along.

Bertie

Matt W. Barrow

November 5th 07, 05:09 AM

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
...
>>
> I think that might be it. I remember my wife telling me that if I bought a
> shirt like that she wouldn't go out with me :-) Those things were so loud
> you needed ear muffs to look at them :-)
>
So THAT'S what happened to your hearing?

[email protected]

November 5th 07, 05:32 AM

On Nov 3, 5:51 pm, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:

Metal surfaces
> want to be sprayed, and white paint is probably easier to monitor for
> consistency during the process (spotting thin areas, detecting sags, etc.).
> Ron Wanttaja

I've painted several airplanes and vehicles and boats, and I
can tell you that white is harder to apply than darker colors. In a
paint booth, white reflects so much light that shadows disappear and
it gets easy to apply too much paint. A painter needs to be able to
see that the paint is beginning to flow out, and there's a narrow
range of proper paint thickness between orange peel and sagging. White
just overwhelms my eyes and makes it harder to judge.
I live in a place that has snow much of the year, and in the
mountains near here there's snow in some places year-round. Over the
years too many white airplanes have disappeared and been found long
after, when the snow's gone. I want a color that will stand out as
much as possible; airplanes are tiny things and anything that will
catch SAR's eyes helps. Of course, further snow will cover that, too.
Someone else said yellow was the only color for an airplane. I
agree. My Jodel is bright yellow. I just don't dare crash in a canola
field in June.

Dan

Airbus[_2_]

November 5th 07, 06:35 AM

In article >,
says...
>
>
>Airbus writes:
>
>> I love the authoritative tone with which you blatantly contradict yourself.
>
>High-speed = subsonic but fast, e.g., 737
>Very high-speed = supersonic, e.g., SR-71
>
>There's a big difference in aerodynamic heating between the two. If
>commercial airliners had more of a need to radiate than to reflect, they'd
>already be painted black.

You may not be good for very much, but you are good for a laugh from time to
time!!!

You should know there are more elegant ways to back-pedal when you realize you
have said something stupid in public.

Clearly, for one with as much false pretense at stake as yourself, the
time-honored "That's really what I meant to say . . ." will not do.

You may get substantial mileage, however, out of a more condescending formula :
"You have correctly paraphrased my current thinking on the subject" to which
you could add a patronizing accolade - "and you have expressed it more clearly
than I could have myself . . ." however only in the case where context makes it
clear you do not consider this to be true . . .

Still laughing!!!

Morgans[_2_]

November 5th 07, 07:47 AM

"Matt W. Barrow" < wrote

> So THAT'S what happened to your hearing?

What?

--
Jim in NC;-)

Tina

November 5th 07, 11:01 AM

It will take a woman to remind you gentlemen that airplanes are mostly
white because white is the color used to symbolize the virtue of
purity (no strings attached).

On another minor point, only a fraction of the solar energy is in the
visible wavelengths, so when you're talking about the effect of
visible colors (yellow, orange, and the like) our eyes are not doing a
good job about telling us about their optical characteristics in the
near infrared, and that's where a lot of the solar thermal energy is.
Many pigments are fairly transparant in the near infrared, so the
substrate characteristics (the metal or fiberglass the 'paint' is on)
become important. An example of this would be a conventional mirror,
where the glass is transparant, the visible light goes thru it, but
reflects from the silver coating on the inside surface of the glass.
On the other hand, glass absorbs some infra red wavelengths, so a
conventional mirror does not do well at reflecting that light. (By
conventional mirrors I mean those that have their coatings on the rear
surface of the glass of course: front surface coated mirrors are
available too.)

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 01:03 PM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in news:-
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>>>>>>>> :
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Braniff's only 747 was orange and nicknamed "the Great
> Pumpkin"
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>>>>>> I'll bet when the bids came out from the front office for the
>>> left
>>>>>>>>>> seat job on that bird, at least somebody trying for the seat
>>> MUST
>>>>>>>>>> have been tempted to change his name to "Charlie Brown" :-))
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> groan!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> bertie
>>>>>>>> Hey...ya have to admit......"Charlie Brown and the Great Pumpkin
>>> are
>>>>>>>> arriving at gate 6" kind of has a certain "ring" to it :-))
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't think the general public called it that, just the
>>> employees.
>>>>>>> I'd hate to have a name that mathced this airplanes nickname,
>>> though.
>>>>>>> http://www.historyofaircargo.com/i-TNT-Airbus-A300B4F.-TNT.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bertie
>>>>>> :-))
>>>>>>
>>>>> All you need is a bit of string to make the illusion complete.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Bertie
>>>> Damn Bertie, I must be getting old but I can't make the connection.
>>>> I know I'm going to be sorry I said this, but give me another hint
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>> Oh sorry, thought you got it.
>>>
>>> Kinda sorry I started this now!
>>>
>>> OK, the string goes on the tail.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>>
>> I'm going to take a wild guess (knowing you like I do :-))) and take a
>> shot that this thing just might look like a used Tampon???????
>> :-))
>>
>
> Hey, i didn't invent the tag! I'm just passing it along.
>
>
> Bertie
>

:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Mxsmanic

November 5th 07, 06:59 PM

Tina writes:

> ... our eyes are not doing a good job about telling us about
> their optical characteristics in the near infrared, and that's
> where a lot of the solar thermal energy is.

We can see near infrared, which is why it's called _near_ infrared.

Tina

November 5th 07, 10:24 PM

Let's not play with words. The educated and interested reader may wish
to look at a graph indicating our visual response and map that into a
chart of the energy by wavelength emitted from the sun. Then make a
judgement as to how effective one's eye is at determining the likely
heat absorbance of a sun illuminated object.

In the words of perceptive words of Bertie: Idiot!

Nov 5, 1:59 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Tina writes:
> > ... our eyes are not doing a good job about telling us about
> > their optical characteristics in the near infrared, and that's
> > where a lot of the solar thermal energy is.
>
> We can see near infrared, which is why it's called _near_ infrared.

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 10:30 PM

Tina wrote:
> Let's not play with words. The educated and interested reader may wish
> to look at a graph indicating our visual response and map that into a
> chart of the energy by wavelength emitted from the sun. Then make a
> judgement as to how effective one's eye is at determining the likely
> heat absorbance of a sun illuminated object.
>
> In the words of perceptive words of Bertie: Idiot!

Holy wavelength Batgirl!!!! My Angstrom scale runneth clean over in the
presence of such mighty wordsmithing!!!:-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Tina

November 5th 07, 10:40 PM

I am afraid, Sire Dudley, that it is the opinion of that master
wordsmith, Sire Bertie, that matters here.

He uses very little bandwidth to make his points. Oh, and Angstroms
fell out of fashion about the same time Centigrade and cycles per
second did. Now those guys measure frequency in rent-a-car units.

urtOn Nov 5, 5:30 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
> Tina wrote:
> > Let's not play with words. The educated and interested reader may wish
> > to look at a graph indicating our vesponse and map that into a
> > chart of the energy by wavelength emitted from the sun. Then make a
> > judgement a,s to how effective one's eye is at determining the likely
> > heat absorbance of a sun illuminated object.
>
> > In the words of perceptive words of Bertie: Idiot!
>
> Holy wavelength Batgirl!!!! My Angstrom scale runneth clean over in the
> presence of such mighty wordsmithing!!!:-))
>
> --
> Dudley Henriques

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 5th 07, 11:39 PM

Tina wrote:
> I am afraid, Sire Dudley, that it is the opinion of that master
> wordsmith, Sire Bertie, that matters here.
>
> He uses very little bandwidth to make his points. Oh, and Angstroms
> fell out of fashion about the same time Centigrade and cycles per
> second did. Now those guys measure frequency in rent-a-car units.
>
>
>
> urtOn Nov 5, 5:30 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>> Tina wrote:
>>> Let's not play with words. The educated and interested reader may wish
>>> to look at a graph indicating our vesponse and map that into a
>>> chart of the energy by wavelength emitted from the sun. Then make a
>>> judgement a,s to how effective one's eye is at determining the likely
>>> heat absorbance of a sun illuminated object.
>>> In the words of perceptive words of Bertie: Idiot!
>> Holy wavelength Batgirl!!!! My Angstrom scale runneth clean over in the
>> presence of such mighty wordsmithing!!!:-))
>>
>> --
>> Dudley Henriques
>
>

One must indeed bow in awe and respect to the undisputed master of
brevity. Wouldst that Tolstoy and Michener had studied at the feet of
such a worthy master, I might have saved about a year's worth of eye
strain while being rendered my formal education :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

Gatt

November 6th 07, 02:03 AM

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
ups.com...

> Automobiles, motorcycles, boats -- you name it -- all come in a
> rainbow of colors. Why are 99.5% of all planes (except for some cool
> old classics and some neat homebuilts) white?

So they get lost in the snow when they crash or something. I've wondered
the same thing. There was an article in some magazine about that that I
read after avoiding a camouflage ultralight flying out of Estacada.
(Whoever flies a camouflage ultralight in Oregon is a clueless and total
asshat.)

The thrust of the article, which was written by a S&R pilot, is that
civilian airplanes should be cub yellow, flourescent orange or even hot
pink...whatever it takes to -not- blend in with the water, snow or forest if
you crash.

-c

Mxsmanic

November 6th 07, 03:34 AM

Tina writes:

> Let's not play with words. The educated and interested reader may wish
> to look at a graph indicating our visual response and map that into a
> chart of the energy by wavelength emitted from the sun. Then make a
> judgement as to how effective one's eye is at determining the likely
> heat absorbance of a sun illuminated object.

Not necessary. "Near infrared" means "not infrared," and while infrared is
invisible by definition, near infrared is visible, again by definition.

Thomas Borchert

November 6th 07, 08:50 AM

Mxsmanic,

> "Near infrared" means "not infrared," and while infrared is
> invisible by definition, near infrared is visible, again by definition.

Well, good luck seeing it:

"Near-infrared (NIR, IR-A DIN): 0.75-1.4 µm in wavelength, defined by the
water absorption, and commonly used in fiber optic telecommunication
because of low attenuation losses in the SiO2 glass (silica) medium.
Image intensifiers are sensitive to this area of the spectrum. Examples
include night vision devices such as night vision goggles."

as opposed to:

"Human eyes respond to light with wavelength in the range of
approximately 400 to 700 nm (0.4 to .7 µm)."

You're full of it, as usual. This "research" took me all of a minute.
You're really working hard to keep up your image as the village idiot.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Tina

November 6th 07, 11:27 AM

The fact that arguing about an eye's response past about 700 nm or so
does not have an impact at all on one's ability to estimate sunlight
absorbance somehow escaped him as well. He would be ideal on that TV
show Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader because he'd present as a
literate idiot.

On Nov 6, 3:50 am, Thomas Borchert >
wrote:
> Mxsmanic,
>
> > "Near infrared" means "not infrared," and while infrared is
> > invisible by definition, near infrared is visible, again by definition.
>
> Well, good luck seeing it:
>
> "Near-infrared (NIR, IR-A DIN): 0.75-1.4 µm in wavelength, defined by the
> water absorption, and commonly used in fiber optic telecommunication
> because of low attenuation losses in the SiO2 glass (silica) medium.
> Image intensifiers are sensitive to this area of the spectrum. Examples
> include night vision devices such as night vision goggles."
>
> as opposed to:
>
> "Human eyes respond to light with wavelength in the range of
> approximately 400 to 700 nm (0.4 to .7 µm)."
>
> You're full of it, as usual. This "research" took me all of a minute.
> You're really working hard to keep up your image as the village idiot.
>
> --
> Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Tina

November 6th 07, 12:14 PM

It never occurred to me he took near IR to mean that since that phrase
is in common usage. Nice pickup on your part -- I assumed a degree of
literacy on Mx's part that wasn't there.

On Nov 6, 7:03 am, Wolfgang Schwanke > wrote:
> Mxsmanic > wrote :
>
> > Not necessary. "Near infrared" means "not infrared," and while
> > infrared is invisible by definition, near infrared is visible, again
> > by definition.
>
> No. "Near infrared" does not mean
>
> "The part of visible nearest to infrared" (as you seem to think)
>
> but
>
> "The part of infrared nearest to visible"
>
> The English language is sometimes ambiguous, and you picked the wrong
> of two possible meanings. The established meaning can be deduced from
> actual usage.
>
> --
> But when the music changed, the plan was rearranged
>
> http://www.wschwanke.de/ usenet_20031215 (AT) wschwanke (DOT) de

[email protected]

November 6th 07, 02:31 PM

also resale. much harder to sell or trade a plane with a custom paint
job. just as it is easier to sell a house with neutral interior.
harder to sell a plane that is customized to 1 owner's taste.

Mxsmanic

November 6th 07, 05:33 PM

Wolfgang Schwanke writes:

> No. "Near infrared" does not mean
>
> "The part of visible nearest to infrared" (as you seem to think)
>
> but
>
> "The part of infrared nearest to visible"

Actually, it will usually be hyphenated in the second case, but not in the
first.

This wavelength is near infrared = this wavelength is not infrared, but is
close to it.

This wavelength is near-infrared = this wavelength is infrared, and close to
visible.

> The English language is sometimes ambiguous, and you picked the wrong
> of two possible meanings. The established meaning can be deduced from
> actual usage.

I teach English.

Tina

November 6th 07, 09:36 PM

The wise man, when he finds himself in a hole, stops digging.

"I teach English" indeed. The teacher of English should of course
teach it so the student will understand when it's spoken, or written.
The usage Mx describes is a misrepresentation of the common usage of
the phrase "near infrared." On the other hand, why would he want to
ruin his near perfect record?

On Nov 6, 12:33 pm, Mxsmanic > wrote:
> Wolfgang Schwanke writes:
> > No. "Near infrared" does not mean
>
> > "The part of visible nearest to infrared" (as you seem to think)
>
> > but
>
> > "The part of infrared nearest to visible"
>
> Actually, it will usually be hyphenated in the second case, but not in the
> first.
>
> This wavelength is near infrared = this wavelength is not infrared, but is
> close to it.
>
> This wavelength is near-infrared = this wavelength is infrared, and close to
> visible.
>
> > The English language is sometimes ambiguous, and you picked the wrong
> > of two possible meanings. The established meaning can be deduced from
> > actual usage.
>
> I teach English.

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 7th 07, 04:44 AM

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Wolfgang Schwanke writes:
>
>> No. "Near infrared" does not mean
>>
>> "The part of visible nearest to infrared" (as you seem to think)
>>
>> but
>>
>> "The part of infrared nearest to visible"
>
> Actually, it will usually be hyphenated in the second case, but not in
> the first.
>
> This wavelength is near infrared = this wavelength is not infrared,
> but is close to it.
>
> This wavelength is near-infrared = this wavelength is infrared, and
> close to visible.
>
>> The English language is sometimes ambiguous, and you picked the wrong
>> of two possible meanings. The established meaning can be deduced from
>> actual usage.
>
> I teach English.
>

Nope, wrong again

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 7th 07, 04:44 AM

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Tina writes:
>
>> Let's not play with words. The educated and interested reader may
>> wish to look at a graph indicating our visual response and map that
>> into a chart of the energy by wavelength emitted from the sun. Then
>> make a judgement as to how effective one's eye is at determining the
>> likely heat absorbance of a sun illuminated object.
>
> Not necessary. "Near infrared" means "not infrared," and while
> infrared is invisible by definition, near infrared is visible, again
> by definition.
>

Nope, you're talking ****, as usual.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 7th 07, 04:45 AM

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Tina writes:
>
>> ... our eyes are not doing a good job about telling us about
>> their optical characteristics in the near infrared, and that's
>> where a lot of the solar thermal energy is.
>
> We can see near infrared, which is why it's called _near_ infrared.
>

Nope, wrong again

Bertie

ahl

November 7th 07, 07:56 AM

"Tina" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> The wise man, when he finds himself in a hole, stops digging.
>
> "I teach English" indeed. The teacher of English should of course
> teach it so the student will understand when it's spoken, or written.
> The usage Mx describes is a misrepresentation of the common usage of
> the phrase "near infrared." On the other hand, why would he want to
> ruin his near perfect record?
>

Is that near perfect or near-perfect??

Thomas Borchert

November 7th 07, 08:40 AM

Mxsmanic,

> Actually, it will usually be hyphenated in the second case, but not in the
> first.
>

Damn, you are ever dumber than one thought. There's an clear definition of
near infrared. It's not some willy-nilly term, it is clearly defined by
physics.

You were wrong, plain and simple. Admit it. Just this once.

> I teach English

If you chose to show up for lessons, which isn't that often, as we know from
your now yanked blog. And badly, as proven in this discussion again.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Allen[_1_]

November 7th 07, 11:25 AM

--
"Nomen Nescio" > wrote in message
...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: Mxsmanic >
>
> >Not necessary. "Near infrared" means "not infrared,"
>
> What does a "near miss" mean?
>

A hit that almost missed? : )

--
*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

Yes - I have a name

November 7th 07, 01:35 PM

MXSMANIC wrote:

>I fly airplanes

>I never had a blog

>I teach English

I see a pattern here.

So...

If a near miss is actually a miss, a near-miss must be a collision.

Tina

November 7th 07, 01:49 PM

Intelligent, ignorant, and arrogant: a formula for a rich and full
life, as demonstrated by Mx.

What a total loser!

On Nov 7, 8:35 am, "Yes - I have a name" >
wrote:
> MXSMANIC wrote:
> >I fly airplanes
> >I never had a blog
> >I teach English
>
> I see a pattern here.
>
> So...
>
> If a near miss is actually a miss, a near-miss must be a collision.

Mxsmanic

November 7th 07, 04:58 PM

Nomen Nescio writes:

> As you've said many times, credentials don't mean ****.

Teaching something isn't a credential, it's an action.

Mxsmanic

November 7th 07, 04:59 PM

Thomas Borchert writes:

> Damn, you are ever dumber than one thought. There's an clear definition of
> near infrared. It's not some willy-nilly term, it is clearly defined by
> physics.

To avoid ambiguity, you can say "soft" infrared (or ultraviolet).

Mxsmanic

November 7th 07, 04:59 PM

Nomen Nescio writes:

> What does a "near miss" mean?

"Not a miss." Same principle.

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 7th 07, 05:05 PM

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Nomen Nescio writes:
>
>> As you've said many times, credentials don't mean ****.
>
> Teaching something isn't a credential, it's an action.

Bull****, you couldn't teach anyone anything.

you have to know something to teach it.

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 7th 07, 05:06 PM

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Thomas Borchert writes:
>
>> Damn, you are ever dumber than one thought. There's an clear
>> definition of near infrared. It's not some willy-nilly term, it is
>> clearly defined by physics.
>
> To avoid ambiguity, you can say "soft" infrared (or ultraviolet).
>

Oh yeah, that's a lot less ambiguous.

Do your "students" know you are ripping them off?

Or don't you charge them cash?

Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 7th 07, 05:07 PM

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Nomen Nescio writes:
>
>> What does a "near miss" mean?
>
> "Not a miss." Same principle.
>

Nope.

Wrong again dildo breath

Bertie

Tina

November 7th 07, 05:54 PM

Those who understand something of optics and physics are not confused
by the term near infrared, and it's unlikely the term will be be
changed to please you. Should someone suggest 'soft infrared' it would
most likely be assumed to mean either low intensity radiation, or in
term of photonic energies what is now called 'far infrared."

On the other hand, there may be a contribution to the
rec.aviation.piloting usergroup literature to be made here. If
someone takes a stupid position, we could call it an" Atkielski".

What says the group?

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 7th 07, 06:07 PM

Tina > wrote in news:1194458085.360343.79480
@d55g2000hsg.googlegroups.com:

> Those who understand something of optics and physics are not confused
> by the term near infrared, and it's unlikely the term will be be
> changed to please you. Should someone suggest 'soft infrared' it would
> most likely be assumed to mean either low intensity radiation, or in
> term of photonic energies what is now called 'far infrared."
>
> On the other hand, there may be a contribution to the
> rec.aviation.piloting usergroup literature to be made here. If
> someone takes a stupid position, we could call it an" Atkielski".
>
> What says the group?
>
>

I think you should listen to Anthony because he's funny.

Bertie

Mxsmanic

November 7th 07, 07:23 PM

Tina writes:

> Those who understand something of optics and physics are not confused
> by the term near infrared, and it's unlikely the term will be be
> changed to please you.

I'm sure they can speak for themselves.

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 7th 07, 07:31 PM

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Tina writes:
>
>> Those who understand something of optics and physics are not confused
>> by the term near infrared, and it's unlikely the term will be be
>> changed to please you.
>
> I'm sure they can speak for themselves.
>

Yep, not that it maters to you.

Berte

dgs[_3_]

November 7th 07, 08:22 PM

Mxsmanic wrote:

> Nomen Nescio writes:
>
>
>>What does a "near miss" mean?
>
>
> "Not a miss." Same principle.

"Not a miss" is a collision. A "near miss" is not a collision.
--
dgs

Thomas Borchert

November 7th 07, 08:27 PM

Mxsmanic,

> To avoid ambiguity, you can say "soft" infrared (or ultraviolet).
>

If there was any ambiguity, I guess one could. There isn't. You had no
idea what you were talking about when you corrected other people on the
meaning of "near infrared" (you didn't even came up with it yourself,
but you just had to correct other people) and you are unable to admit
it. That's all. You're just being your usual pityful self.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Thomas Borchert

November 7th 07, 08:27 PM

Mxsmanic,

> I'm sure they can speak for themselves.
>

They have. They say "near infrared". All of them.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Morgans[_2_]

November 7th 07, 09:32 PM

"Tina" < wrote
>
> On the other hand, there may be a contribution to the
> rec.aviation.piloting usergroup literature to be made here. If
> someone takes a stupid position, we could call it an" Atkielski".
>
> What says the group?

Too hard to remember. How about MXed position?
--
Jim in NC

Tina

November 7th 07, 10:09 PM

Jim, Mxed is inspired. I thought of AA but that would give alcholics a
bad name, wouldn't it? If he wasn't such a willing subject this would
be cruel, but as noted before, some dogs like to be kicked.

On Nov 7, 4:32 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
> "Tina" < wrote
>
>
>
> > On the other hand, there may be a contribution to the
> > rec.aviation.piloting usergroup literature to be made here. If
> > someone takes a stupid position, we could call it an" Atkielski".
>
> > What says the group?
>
> Too hard to remember. How about MXed position?
> --
> Jim in NC

Morgans[_2_]

November 7th 07, 10:59 PM

"Tina" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Jim, Mxed is inspired. I thought of AA but that would give alcholics a
> bad name, wouldn't it? If he wasn't such a willing subject this would
> be cruel, but as noted before, some dogs like to be kicked.

He does like to be kicked, doesn't he?

This group has had great success at getting rid of interlopers before, but
it seems to be unable/unwilling to do it now.

All it would take is everyone to totally ignore any posts, and not comment
on anyone that does not comply, and he would be gone within a week. I don't
understand why the collective can not undertake this approach.

I would be overjoyed to have him gone. I would even propose a newsgroup
holiday!

Until them, we will all remain MXed. :-(
--
Jim in NC

TheSmokingGnu

November 8th 07, 02:36 AM

Morgans wrote:
> Until them, we will all remain MXed. :-(

Quoth the Raven "near infrared".

TheSmokingGnu

Yes - I have a name

November 8th 07, 02:14 PM

The only problem is that nobody else I can think of would deserve being
called that.

"Tina" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> Jim, Mxed is inspired.
> On Nov 7, 4:32 pm, "Morgans" > wrote:
> > Too hard to remember. How about MXed position?
> > --
> > Jim in NC
>
>

Mxsmanic

November 8th 07, 08:18 PM

dgs writes:

> "Not a miss" is a collision. A "near miss" is not a collision.

A near-miss is not.

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 8th 07, 09:03 PM

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> dgs writes:
>
>> "Not a miss" is a collision. A "near miss" is not a collision.
>
> A near-miss is not.
>

that must make you a near pilot.

Oh wait, it doesn;'t

Bertie

Morgans[_2_]

November 8th 07, 09:43 PM

"Yes - I have a name" > wrote

> The only problem is that nobody else I can think of would deserve being
> called that.

<Chuckle>
Yep, you have a point there!

In teaching, we are taught to never equate a student's action with the
student's being.

In real terms, that means we can dislike the student's actions, but not
dislike the student.

Same type of thing for the MXing. We can say that a person has MXed up, by
holding to a stance or position, but that is only a temporary action, not
the whole of the person.
--
Jim in NC

Kloudy via AviationKB.com

November 8th 07, 09:59 PM

Judah wrote:

>
>However, it brings to light the truth as to why military aircraft are
>generally painted olive green...

That's so they coordinate with GI underwear.

Jeez you guys don't know nuthin'

--
Message posted via http://www.aviationkb.com

Dave Doe

November 15th 07, 12:34 PM

In article >,
says...
> dgs writes:
>
> > "Not a miss" is a collision. A "near miss" is not a collision.
>
> A near-miss is not.

God you really are stupid as well as a troll.

A near miss, is where a plane misses another plane, but is quite near to
it.

Stop being a ****** and grow up.

--
Duncan

Tina

November 15th 07, 01:09 PM

A near miss might simply mean there's an unmarried woman nearby.
Without a second cup of coffee, however, I can't bring that on topic.
Oh, of course: the speaker is flying as first officer to a woman who
is PIC.. The entire flight he'd be . . . .

No, I am not drinking this early in the morning.

Dave Doe > wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>
> > dgs writes:
>
> > > "Not a miss" is a collision. A "near miss" is not a collision.
>
> > A near-miss is not.
>
> God you really are stupid as well as a troll.
>
> A near miss, is where a plane misses another plane, but is quite near to
> it.
>
> Stop being a ****** and grow up.
>
> --
> Duncan

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 15th 07, 01:33 PM

Tina > wrote in news:7b26292e-3d75-406e-b28d-
:

> A near miss might simply mean there's an unmarried woman nearby.
> Without a second cup of coffee, however, I can't bring that on topic.
> Oh, of course: the speaker is flying as first officer to a woman who
> is PIC.. The entire flight he'd be . . . .
>
> No, I am not drinking this early in the morning.

Maybe you should start.

Bertie

Tina

November 15th 07, 02:21 PM

Good point.

On Nov 15, 8:33 am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> Tina > wrote in news:7b26292e-3d75-406e-b28d-
> :
>
> > A near miss might simply mean there's an unmarried woman nearby.
> > Without a second cup of coffee, however, I can't bring that on topic.
> > Oh, of course: the speaker is flying as first officer to a woman who
> > is PIC.. The entire flight he'd be . . . .
>
> > No, I am not drinking this early in the morning.
>
> Maybe you should start.
>
> Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 15th 07, 03:12 PM

Tina > wrote in news:5938c10c-6c11-4229-adb1-
:

> Good point.

A little Kahlua in your coffee before you post could work wonders!

Bertie
>
> On Nov 15, 8:33 am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> Tina > wrote in news:7b26292e-3d75-406e-b28d-
>> :
>>
>> > A near miss might simply mean there's an unmarried woman nearby.
>> > Without a second cup of coffee, however, I can't bring that on topic.
>> > Oh, of course: the speaker is flying as first officer to a woman who
>> > is PIC.. The entire flight he'd be . . . .
>>
>> > No, I am not drinking this early in the morning.
>>
>> Maybe you should start.
>>
>> Bertie
>
>

[email protected]

November 15th 07, 10:31 PM

On Nov 3, 6:16 am, Jay Honeck > wrote:
> My daughter innocently asked that question the other day, and I gave
> her the usual "because white reflects heat better" answer -- but that
> really doesn't add up, does it?
>
> Automobiles, motorcycles, boats -- you name it -- all come in a
> rainbow of colors. Why are 99.5% of all planes (except for some cool
> old classics and some neat homebuilts) white?
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

Airplanes are white due to a racist conspiracy! There should be
quotas to ensure that airplanes of all other possible colors are
represented in the skies! Down with the oppressors!

[email protected]

November 16th 07, 04:26 AM

Wow Larry,

You take a simple tongue in cheek joke, and turn it into a Mark
Fuhrman reference... nice stretch play.

While we are at it, here is a funny joke that was posted by a black
investor on the Yahoo Investors forum. Is this joke racist, or does
it poke fun at racial stereotypes. I have a feeling I know what your
answer will be:

A golfer walks into the clubhouse of the local country club.

He tells the golf pro behind the counter that he wants to
do 18 and he is going to need a caddy. The golf pro informs
him that the country club is running a promotion and if he
tries out one of their experimental robot caddies, he can
golf for free. The golfer agrees and takes out the robot.
While on the golf course the robot caddy tells the golfer
the wind speed, distance, even how hard to hit which club.
He has the best game of his life.

The next time the golfer goes to the country club, he tells
the golf pro that he wants to do 18 holes and that he wants
to get one of the robot caddies.

He informs the golfer that they don't have the robot caddies anymore.
The golfer, all upset, tells him how great they were and asks him what
happened.

The golf pro tells him that members were complaining that
the sun would reflect of their metallic material and into
their eyes.

The golfer asks him why they didn't just paint the robots
black?

The golf pro said that they did, but the next day, 3 of them didn't
show up and the other 3 robbed the pro shop.

Roger (K8RI)

November 16th 07, 05:22 AM

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 01:34:08 +1300, Dave Doe > wrote:

>In article >,
says...
>> dgs writes:
>>
>> > "Not a miss" is a collision. A "near miss" is not a collision.
>>
>> A near-miss is not.
>
>God you really are stupid as well as a troll.
>
>A near miss, is where a plane misses another plane, but is quite near to

If the words are used correctly it means they almost missed which is
kinda messy which makes me wonder how the current meaning of near miss
in aviation came about. it must have been written by the press in
their infinite aviation wisdom.

Roger (K8RI)

>it.
>
>Stop being a ****** and grow up.

Tina

November 16th 07, 02:05 PM

As used in the optical sciences and mentioned before, near infrared
means infrafred, but close to the visible spectrum. Far infrared means
infared, far from the visible spectum. A near miss of course means a
miss, but close to a impact. Pilots (except kamikaze and terrorists)
aim at having far misses everyday, misses by miles, everyday.

> On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 01:34:08 +1300, Dave Doe > wrote:
> >In article >,
> says...
> >> dgs writes:
>
> >> > "Not a miss" is a collision. A "near miss" is not a collision.
>
> >> A near-miss is not.
>
> >God you really are stupid as well as a troll.
>
> >A near miss, is where a plane misses another plane, but is quite near to
>
> If the words are used correctly it means they almost missed which is
> kinda messy which makes me wonder how the current meaning of near miss
> in aviation came about. it must have been written by the press in
> their infinite aviation wisdom.
>
> Roger (K8RI)
>
>
>
> >it.
>
> >Stop being a ****** and grow up.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Gig 601XL Builder

November 16th 07, 02:20 PM

wrote:

>
> The golf pro said that they did, but the next day, 3 of them didn't
> show up and the other 3 robbed the pro shop.

Best joke I've heard in a while. Thanks

Roger (K8RI)

November 17th 07, 06:44 AM

On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 18:35:19 -0400, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>
>"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
...
>> On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 09:31:29 -0400, "Morgans"
>> > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Fiberglass airplanes almost demand it. If they get too hot, the epoxy
>>>gets
>>>hot, and gets weak. Very weak.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Some of the new Cirrus versions are not white.
>
>Are they cured in autoclaves?
>
>Epoxy can be designed to stay stronger at higher temperatures, but
>generally, they are then required to cure in autoclaves, with the high
>temperature and pressure making the higher yield temperatures possible.

Vinyl Ester Resin can stand higher temperatures than regular epoxies
and there are versions of epoxy rated for higher temperatrures, but
none of them will stay below the normal softening temperature under
any paint except white unless as you listed they have been cured at a
higher temp. Actually even white puts them very near the softening
temp on aclear, calm, bright, summer day.

Roger (K8RI)

Roger (K8RI)

November 17th 07, 06:52 AM

On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 18:03:05 -0500, Dudley Henriques
> wrote:

>Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Big John > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> My Mooney was orange and white. The white on top of fuselage helped
>>> keep cabin temp down on the ramp in the summer and the combination was
>>> easy to see in the air and also in summer vegetation (a la Faccett)
>>> and winter snow if bird went down.
>>>
>>> Combination looked good like and airplane should, so best of all
>>> worlds.
>>>
>>
>> Not dayglo orange, I hope!
>>
I plan on having one of the custom car places paint the G-III with
that paint where the color depends on the angle between the viewer and
the sun. I saw a custom truck drive by here last summer and the whole
thing changed went through the whole visible color spectrum as they
went by.

I figure by doing that, when I fly between the house and garage no two
people will be able to give the same color for the plane. <:-))

The only drawback is repair. There is no such thing as a *minor*
retouch job. <:-))

Roger (K8RI)
>>
>> Bertie
>
>For a minute here I thought you guys were flying a creamcicle :-)

Airbus[_2_]

November 17th 07, 07:10 AM

In article
>,
says...
>
>
>As used in the optical sciences and mentioned before, near infrared
>means infrafred, but close to the visible spectrum. Far infrared means
>infared, far from the visible spectum. A near miss of course means a
>miss, but close to a impact.

Taken from context then - an unmarried woman, close to impact. . ; Sorry

People get their latin mixed up sometimes.
Infra, of course being "less than" -

Yet I recall a Hong Kong Superhero Sci-Fi movie called "InfraMan"!

I once visited a factory where they were manufacturing greeting cards. The
machine that put the glossy varnish coat on the cards was emblazoned
"InfraRapid"!!

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 17th 07, 02:29 PM

"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
:

> I plan on having one of the custom car places paint the G-III with
> that paint where the color depends on the angle between the viewer and
> the sun. I saw a custom truck drive by here last summer and the whole
> thing changed went through the whole visible color spectrum as they
> went by.
>
> I figure by doing that, when I fly between the house and garage no two
> people will be able to give the same color for the plane. <:-))
>
> The only drawback is repair. There is no such thing as a *minor*
> retouch job. <:-))
>

You could put some neon lights around th eedges of the wings and your Perry
Como records will sound terrific through your earthquake speakers as well.

Bertie

Roger (K8RI)

November 18th 07, 07:16 AM

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:29:58 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

>"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
:
>
>> I plan on having one of the custom car places paint the G-III with
>> that paint where the color depends on the angle between the viewer and
>> the sun. I saw a custom truck drive by here last summer and the whole
>> thing changed went through the whole visible color spectrum as they
>> went by.
>>
>> I figure by doing that, when I fly between the house and garage no two
>> people will be able to give the same color for the plane. <:-))
>>
>> The only drawback is repair. There is no such thing as a *minor*
>> retouch job. <:-))
>>
>
>
>
>You could put some neon lights around th eedges of the wings and your Perry

Nah, the custom paint job is not gaudy. You have to see one. I always
figured phosphorescent orange or green would be ideal until I saw a
truck change colors as it drove by.

>Como records will sound terrific through your earthquake speakers as well.

Can't stand music of that era.
Of course unlike most my age I don't like the big band sound either.

Roger (K8RI)
>
>
>Bertie

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 18th 07, 07:20 AM

"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
:

> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:29:58 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
> wrote:
>
>>"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
:
>>
>>> I plan on having one of the custom car places paint the G-III with
>>> that paint where the color depends on the angle between the viewer
>>> and the sun. I saw a custom truck drive by here last summer and the
>>> whole thing changed went through the whole visible color spectrum as
>>> they went by.
>>>
>>> I figure by doing that, when I fly between the house and garage no
>>> two people will be able to give the same color for the plane. <:-))
>>>
>>> The only drawback is repair. There is no such thing as a *minor*
>>> retouch job. <:-))
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>You could put some neon lights around th eedges of the wings and your
>>Perry
>
> Nah, the custom paint job is not gaudy. You have to see one. I always
> figured phosphorescent orange or green would be ideal until I saw a
> truck change colors as it drove by.

I've seen 'em, but the maintenance! I'm sure you;re right about the
retouch job. Saw some rice rocket on the street a while back that had
been scraped up badly and I'd say it's complete new paint for it.
>
>>Como records will sound terrific through your earthquake speakers as
>>well.
>
> Can't stand music of that era.
> Of course unlike most my age I don't like the big band sound either.

He heh, just yanking your chain. I love big band music and I'm not of
that era!

Roger (K8RI)

November 19th 07, 01:24 AM

On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:20:39 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

>"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
:
>
>> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:29:58 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
>> wrote:
>>
>>>"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
:
>>>
>>>> I plan on having one of the custom car places paint the G-III with
>>>> that paint where the color depends on the angle between the viewer
>>>> and the sun. I saw a custom truck drive by here last summer and the
>>>> whole thing changed went through the whole visible color spectrum as
>>>> they went by.
>>>>
>>>> I figure by doing that, when I fly between the house and garage no
>>>> two people will be able to give the same color for the plane. <:-))
>>>>
>>>> The only drawback is repair. There is no such thing as a *minor*
>>>> retouch job. <:-))
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>You could put some neon lights around th eedges of the wings and your
>>>Perry
>>
>> Nah, the custom paint job is not gaudy. You have to see one. I always
>> figured phosphorescent orange or green would be ideal until I saw a
>> truck change colors as it drove by.
>
>I've seen 'em, but the maintenance! I'm sure you;re right about the
>retouch job. Saw some rice rocket on the street a while back that had
>been scraped up badly and I'd say it's complete new paint for it.
>>
>>>Como records will sound terrific through your earthquake speakers as
>>>well.

Sound of an afterburner at full tilt from a 1000 watt amp in the
bottom of the wings to add effect when you fly between the house and
garage. <:-))

>>
>> Can't stand music of that era.
>> Of course unlike most my age I don't like the big band sound either.
>
>He heh, just yanking your chain. I love big band music and I'm not of
>that era!
Sorta figured that.

That's probably why. I grew up listening to it. Vacations are pretty
much the same thing. My folks had me all over the US for two weeks
every summer between the cultivating and harvest season. Now I don't
care to travel, but I do love to fly. That's fly small, fast planes,
but I hate flying commercial. One of my last flights was coming back
from Boston to KMBS via Cleveland. Boston to Cleveland was in an
overloaded DC-10. I had the middle seat in the middle section, in the
middle row and the guy in front was suffering from a terminal case of
dandruff. Dandruff of mange. I once had a Black Lab get that and this
sure looked the same<:-)) If every one moved just right at the same
time I'd get a momentary glimpse of a window on either side.

On the flight before or after that (I forget which) I took a wait list
as we got out of class early. (I should have stayed another day and
partied with the rest of them) . One seat farther back on the DC-9
and I"d have had a private room. You had to move one row forward to
have a window and seat backs that reclined. Even then the view out
their window was of the side of the engine.

I always thought DC-9s were smooth and quiet. Back there it sounded
like a Gray hound, felt like a gray hound, and smelled like a gray
hound.
>

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 19th 07, 09:21 AM

"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
:
>
> Sound of an afterburner at full tilt from a 1000 watt amp in the
> bottom of the wings to add effect when you fly between the house and
> garage. <:-))
>

A geriatric delinquent, eh?

> On the flight before or after that (I forget which) I took a wait list
> as we got out of class early. (I should have stayed another day and
> partied with the rest of them) . One seat farther back on the DC-9
> and I"d have had a private room. You had to move one row forward to
> have a window and seat backs that reclined. Even then the view out
> their window was of the side of the engine.
>
> I always thought DC-9s were smooth and quiet. Back there it sounded
> like a Gray hound, felt like a gray hound, and smelled like a gray
> hound.
>>
>

Ugh. I hate positiioning. I do a fair amount of it. Complete and absolute
**** from beginning to end. My own line is OK since I just go to ops and go
out with the crew, but if I have to go on another 'line it's the whole nine
yards, plus, since I'm often in uniform, you have a thousand people asking
you stupid questions at airports you know nothing about, and the alwya
clever "shouldn't you be up front" when you sit down next to someone. I try
to disguise myself when I can.

Bertie

[email protected]

November 19th 07, 03:18 PM

On Nov 5, 7:03 pm, "Gatt" > wrote:
> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>
> ups.com...
>
> > Automobiles, motorcycles, boats -- you name it -- all come in a
> > rainbow of colors. Why are 99.5% of all planes (except for some cool
> > old classics and some neat homebuilts) white?
>
> So they get lost in the snow when they crash or something. I've wondered
> the same thing. There was an article in some magazine about that that I
> read after avoiding a camouflage ultralight flying out of Estacada.
> (Whoever flies a camouflage ultralight in Oregon is a clueless and total
> asshat.)
>
> The thrust of the article, which was written by a S&R pilot, is that
> civilian airplanes should be cub yellow, flourescent orange or even hot
> pink...whatever it takes to -not- blend in with the water, snow or forest if
> you crash.
>
> -c

I qualify for the flourescent Orange one.... In fact Ray Charles just
called to say he could see my plane. :<)))

Ben
www.haaspowerair.com

Dane Spearing

November 19th 07, 06:11 PM

>Automobiles, motorcycles, boats -- you name it -- all come in a
>rainbow of colors. Why are 99.5% of all planes (except for some cool
>old classics and some neat homebuilts) white?

That's easy - airplanes are white because white is the least expensive
color of paint! Duh. :)

-- Dane

Roger (K8RI)

November 21st 07, 02:03 AM

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:21:37 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
wrote:

>"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
:
>>
>> Sound of an afterburner at full tilt from a 1000 watt amp in the
>> bottom of the wings to add effect when you fly between the house and
>> garage. <:-))
>>
>
>
>A geriatric delinquent, eh?

Hey! I ain't quite THAT old!

Roger (K8RI)
>
>
>> On the flight before or after that (I forget which) I took a wait list
>> as we got out of class early. (I should have stayed another day and
>> partied with the rest of them) . One seat farther back on the DC-9
>> and I"d have had a private room. You had to move one row forward to
>> have a window and seat backs that reclined. Even then the view out
>> their window was of the side of the engine.
>>
>> I always thought DC-9s were smooth and quiet. Back there it sounded
>> like a Gray hound, felt like a gray hound, and smelled like a gray
>> hound.
>>>
>>
>
>Ugh. I hate positiioning. I do a fair amount of it. Complete and absolute
>**** from beginning to end. My own line is OK since I just go to ops and go
>out with the crew, but if I have to go on another 'line it's the whole nine
>yards, plus, since I'm often in uniform, you have a thousand people asking
>you stupid questions at airports you know nothing about, and the alwya
>clever "shouldn't you be up front" when you sit down next to someone. I try
>to disguise myself when I can.
>
>
>Bertie

Roger (K8RI)

November 21st 07, 02:06 AM

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 07:18:44 -0800 (PST), "
> wrote:

>On Nov 5, 7:03 pm, "Gatt" > wrote:
>> "Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
>>
>> ups.com...
>>
>> > Automobiles, motorcycles, boats -- you name it -- all come in a
>> > rainbow of colors. Why are 99.5% of all planes (except for some cool
>> > old classics and some neat homebuilts) white?
>>
>> So they get lost in the snow when they crash or something. I've wondered
>> the same thing. There was an article in some magazine about that that I
>> read after avoiding a camouflage ultralight flying out of Estacada.
>> (Whoever flies a camouflage ultralight in Oregon is a clueless and total
>> asshat.)
>>
>> The thrust of the article, which was written by a S&R pilot, is that
>> civilian airplanes should be cub yellow, flourescent orange or even hot
>> pink...whatever it takes to -not- blend in with the water, snow or forest if
>> you crash.
>>
>> -c
>
>I qualify for the flourescent Orange one.... In fact Ray Charles just
>called to say he could see my plane. :<)))

Jack Yoder's "Cotton Candy", a hot pink GP-4 did stand out. Look at
the satellite images of Oshkosh. There is no trouble at all telling
if he was there when they shot the image.

Roger (K8RI)
>
>Ben
>www.haaspowerair.com

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 21st 07, 02:17 AM

"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
:

> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:21:37 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
> wrote:
>
>>"Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
:
>>>
>>> Sound of an afterburner at full tilt from a 1000 watt amp in the
>>> bottom of the wings to add effect when you fly between the house and
>>> garage. <:-))
>>>
>>
>>
>>A geriatric delinquent, eh?
>
> Hey! I ain't quite THAT old!

Well if you grew up listening to Big Band music...

Bertie

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 21st 07, 02:25 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> "Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
> :
>
>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:21:37 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> "Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>> Sound of an afterburner at full tilt from a 1000 watt amp in the
>>>> bottom of the wings to add effect when you fly between the house and
>>>> garage. <:-))
>>>>
>>>
>>> A geriatric delinquent, eh?
>> Hey! I ain't quite THAT old!
>
> Well if you grew up listening to Big Band music...
>
> Bertie
>

HEY...we aren't THAT old!!! Wait a minute while I ask a few of our old
fellow pilots when it was Roger and I started out flying.......
"Hey WILBER...........HEY ORVILLE???? Need your opinion on something!!!!!"

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 21st 07, 02:41 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> "Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:21:37 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
>>>> :
>>>>> Sound of an afterburner at full tilt from a 1000 watt amp in the
>>>>> bottom of the wings to add effect when you fly between the house
>>>>> and garage. <:-))
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> A geriatric delinquent, eh?
>>> Hey! I ain't quite THAT old!
>>
>> Well if you grew up listening to Big Band music...
>>
>> Bertie
>>
>
> HEY...we aren't THAT old!!! Wait a minute while I ask a few of our old
> fellow pilots when it was Roger and I started out flying.......
> "Hey WILBER...........HEY ORVILLE???? Need your opinion on
> something!!!!!"

He heh. One of my instructors had his licence singned by Orville. I don;t
think he evr met him, but Orville was the head of the CAA at the time and
signed everyone's licence.
Chet was real old even whne I flew with him. He used to fall asleep on me.

Bertie

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 21st 07, 03:48 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> "Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 09:21:37 +0000 (UTC), Bertie the Bunyip
>>>> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> "Roger (K8RI)" > wrote in
>>>>> :
>>>>>> Sound of an afterburner at full tilt from a 1000 watt amp in the
>>>>>> bottom of the wings to add effect when you fly between the house
>>>>>> and garage. <:-))
>>>>>>
>>>>> A geriatric delinquent, eh?
>>>> Hey! I ain't quite THAT old!
>>> Well if you grew up listening to Big Band music...
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>>
>> HEY...we aren't THAT old!!! Wait a minute while I ask a few of our old
>> fellow pilots when it was Roger and I started out flying.......
>> "Hey WILBER...........HEY ORVILLE???? Need your opinion on
>> something!!!!!"
>
>
> He heh. One of my instructors had his licence singned by Orville. I don;t
> think he evr met him, but Orville was the head of the CAA at the time and
> signed everyone's licence.
> Chet was real old even whne I flew with him. He used to fall asleep on me.
>
>
> Bertie
I was at Flying W one day when Bob Cummings came in. If I recall, his
license had Orville's signature on it.

--
Dudley Henriques

Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]

November 21st 07, 06:12 AM

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>

>> He heh. One of my instructors had his licence singned by Orville. I
>> don;t think he evr met him, but Orville was the head of the CAA at
>> the time and signed everyone's licence.
>> Chet was real old even whne I flew with him. He used to fall asleep
>> on me.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
> I was at Flying W one day when Bob Cummings came in. If I recall, his
> license had Orville's signature on it.
>

I think everyone from a certain period had it. Late twenties early
thirties, I guess.
I'd like to have met him. Love that Bob!

Bertie

Dudley Henriques[_2_]

November 24th 07, 05:32 AM

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>
>>> He heh. One of my instructors had his licence singned by Orville. I
>>> don;t think he evr met him, but Orville was the head of the CAA at
>>> the time and signed everyone's licence.
>>> Chet was real old even whne I flew with him. He used to fall asleep
>>> on me.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> I was at Flying W one day when Bob Cummings came in. If I recall, his
>> license had Orville's signature on it.
>>
>
>
> I think everyone from a certain period had it. Late twenties early
> thirties, I guess.
> I'd like to have met him. Love that Bob!
>
>
> Bertie

This is a repost of an earlier post about the same answer as before. For
some reason the first one hasn't shown up. If it does, just disregard it.

Cummings was a first rate guy. He flew into Flying W in a Beech 18 and
Bill Whitesell sold him an Aztec. The Beech was a fine looking airplane
inside and out.
Cummings took us over to the Valley Forge Music Fair where I shared a
Hot Dog with Juliet Prowse. Real beautiful and talented gal.

--
Dudley Henriques