Any CAP pilots?

[Gatt]

A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit, says
they're looking for pilots right now.

I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
CAP.

-Chris

[Robert M. Gary]

On Nov 5, 9:54 am, "Gatt" > wrote:
> A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit, says
> they're looking for pilots right now.
>
> I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
> CAP.

CAP is a good organization. CAP has nice aircraft. Our squadron has a
new C-182T with glass cockpit. You can rent the plane yourself to gain
hours in glass for $80/hr dry, which works out to only about $110/hr.
The FBO next door is renting almost the same plane for $220/hr.
CAP is usually mostly looking for S&R pilots. In my opinion this is
usually best suited for the retired or single person. Calls can come
in all times of the day or night (most seem to come between midnight
and 4am for some reason :) ) and you should be ready to be at the
airport in about 45 minutes ready to launch. I find that most pilots
who join CAP find that these missions are difficult on work/family,
but for those that have more flexible schedules its very awesome!
Depending on the number of hours, etc you have now you should probably
expect to have about 10 hours in the plane before you are a qualified
S&R pilot. You first need to qualify to fly the plane and then go
through the training routines to become a mission pilot. I've seen
some become mission pilots in 2 months but most pilots do it over the
course of 6-12 months.

-Robert

[Gatt]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> I find that most pilots who join CAP find that these missions are
> difficult on work/family,
> but for those that have more flexible schedules its very awesome!
> Depending on the number of hours, etc you have now you should probably
> expect to have about 10 hours in the plane before you are a qualified
> S&R pilot. You first need to qualify to fly the plane and then go
> through the training routines to become a mission pilot.

Thanks for the information! I'm going to call them, say "this is what I can
offer" and if it's what they need, so be it. I'm five minutes from the
mouth of the Columbia Gorge which is a lost hiker haven.

>I've seen some become mission pilots in 2 months but most pilots do it over
>the
> course of 6-12 months.

That fits my timeframe. (My wife is currently finishing up her second
degree and then she'll be making good money. I'm "retiring" from the
telecom/data industry because it's about to crash all over again. We have a
baby, but my father lives five minutes away and he's retired, so that works
out.)

-c

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Gatt" > wrote

> That fits my timeframe. (My wife is currently finishing up her second
> degree and then she'll be making good money. I'm "retiring" from the
> telecom/data industry because it's about to crash all over again. We have
> a baby, but my father lives five minutes away and he's retired, so that
> works out.)

Are you going to make your second career in the aviation industry?
--
Jim in NC

[Gatt]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...

>> That fits my timeframe. (My wife is currently finishing up her second
>> degree and then she'll be making good money. I'm "retiring" from the
>> telecom/data industry because it's about to crash all over again. We
>> have a baby, but my father lives five minutes away and he's retired, so
>> that works out.)
>
> Are you going to make your second career in the aviation industry?

With any luck, but it won't kill me if I don't. At least I won't have to
move to India if I want to keep my job.

I just took a 30% pay cut to keep my job after the third buyout, and, on top
of that, had to sign a contract that said I wouldn't publically badmouth the
company for six months after I leave it. Without saying what company I work
for, what I've done is hunt spammers, internet pedophiles etc. The company
that bought us out has decided that our worst offenders are
thousand-dollar-a-month customers, so stopping this sort of behavior is not
a priority. Two years ago I helped the FBI find spammers and put online at
least two child porn purveyors in prison. Now, the new company has decided
that the time is better served helping little old ladies remember their
e-mail passwords because that's what makes customers happy. What's more
important is how fast people answer phones; fighting internet abuse is a
spare-time sort of responsibility now. It's starting to smell a lot like
Worldcomm around here.

I worked in the telecom industry before the crash of 2001. (It wasn't 9/11,
it wasn't Bush, it wasn't Clinton, it was the culture of corporate
mismanagement and arrogance.) The old-timer data engineers and admins
around here are all seeing the same starry-eyed clueless arrogance starting
over again, so I'm bailing out as soon as my wife graduates. She has three
classes to go and is already getting job offers, so come summer I'm done
except for private contracting and freelance writing.

-c

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Morgans wrote:
>
> Are you going to make your second career in the aviation industry?

Many of us in the telecomm / data industry need to keep a plan ready.

[[email protected]]

On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" > wrote:
> A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit, says
> they're looking for pilots right now.
>
> I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
> CAP.
>
> -Chris

My experience with the Wyoming arm of the CAP was troubling at best. I
offered to go though the Form 5 jump through the hoops process. The
wing was and still is run by a bunch of ex military people who have
the system set up to make it next to impossible for anew guy to get to
fly "their" planes. After a year or so I threw in the towel and
emailed the nationa commander to view my thoughts. I warned him of
incompentence and the inbreed nature of the CAP here. I would not fly
with certain pilots and named them. Just s few weeks later he flew the
CAP plane through the Snake River canyon where it was about 100 feet
wide and hit a cable 15 feet of the water. Killed him and destroyed
the plane. This year one of the other pilots who was known as
marginal at best was on a mission and spun it in, killing himself and
two other innocent humans. Also someone posted that you will be called
for a mission in the middile of the night. i was told a CAP plane
CANNOT fly bewteen sunset and sun up. as in , no night flying.
Probably just more BS that I was fed by the Wyoming CAP chapter. YMMV


Ben
www.haaspowerair.com

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

wrote:
> On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" > wrote:
>> A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit, says
>> they're looking for pilots right now.
>>
>> I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
>> CAP.
>>
>> -Chris
>
> My experience with the Wyoming arm of the CAP was troubling at best.

I've sent several emails to local CAP wings describing my experience and
asking how I might fit into the organization. They were sent to
addresses listed in literature distributed at a local safety festival.

No response, not a-one!

The Coast Guard Aux. looks promising at first glance, so I'm headed in
that direction...

[Gatt]

"Viperdoc" > wrote in message
...
>I had a similar experience with our local chapter. I described my
>experiences as an Air Force flight surgeon, and offered to help teach first
>aid, etc.
>
> Not one response. Makes one think they are a little clique that doesn't
> want any outside participation.

Well, we'll see. I have an in through a coworker, but I sent the local
composite squadron commander an e-mail with a few questions and haven't
gotten a response either. Interesting comments, moreso coming from
different parts of the country.

The main reason I asked is because my only other experience with the CAP was
after Andrew in Baton Rouge when I was helping out at the FBO and they came
in. Taxiway incursions, pilots ignoring the kids flagging them into the
parking area and a bunch of old fatsters yelling at some -extremely- eager
and well-behaved kids all day long. Some of these kids looked like beaten
dogs; afraid of every adult around. One of the pilots was visibly offended
that the FBO employee (my girlfriend who was an LSU honors student) driving
the fuel truck was a woman. The FBO owner was as hot-headed as some of the
pilots so pretty soon they were toe-to-toe yelling at each other in front of
the kids on the tarmac. Really discouraging.

The local branches seem to be really squared away, though. I see them
coming through for fuel with the cadets and they seem very professional.

-c

[Angelo Campanella[_2_]]

wrote:
> On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" > wrote:
>>A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit, says
>>they're looking for pilots right now.
>>I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
>>CAP.
> My experience with the Wyoming arm of the CAP was troubling at best. I
> offered to go though the Form 5 jump through the hoops process. The
> wing was and still is run by a bunch of ex military people who have
> the system set up to make it next to impossible for anew guy to get to
> fly "their" planes. After a year or so I threw in the towel and
> emailed the national commander to view my thoughts. I warned him of
> incompentence and the inbreed nature of the CAP here.

-Snip -

My experience with CAP is long and old, but here goes:

In high school, in Pennsylvania during WWII, I was a CAP cadet. I
learned to march, wear a uniform, and was taught air navigation and led
me to start flying lessons as noted here before.

Fast forward. After moving to Ohio and finally getting my private
license, in 1966 I joined the local Group unit, which operated a Cessna
150 that was donated by a local wealthy CAP member. Granted, I had to
wait my turn to be able to fly that 150; and I did dutifully participate
in SARCAPs (practice exercises). Yes there were some veterans in the
unit that dominated, but that was OK by me since the had both the
authority as well as the responsibility for maintaining that aircraft to
be air worthy as well as to maintain a cadre of pilots that could and
would fly it according to CAP regulations. Also note that the two
missions of CAP is Search and rescue (SAR) and Aerospace Education for
youth, somewhat analogous to the Boy & Girl Scouts.

I remained in that Group unit, moving up to be group commander in the
late '70's. The C150 was painted, then transferred to a Squadron, and we
obtained a C172 (T41) which group operated successfully. Our cadre of
pilots was bout 5 in number. To finance the usage of the T41, we formed
an internal "Club" where these pilots paid a monthly fee plus the fuel
they used. The T41 was still a cost to the Group because the fees did
not cover all the maintenance, but we survived.

My halcyon days ended wen I was transferred to Wing HQ as a Lt Col. It
seemed that the rare atmosphere of "headquarters" was more than I liked
(no flying). I attended wing meetings, but then the building we used, a
surviving WWII hangar at the local City airport, was demolished for
other facility development. The meeting place moved yet further from my
home, so my attendance to Wing HQ diminished to nil. I resigned in the
late '90's (received a retirement "Discharge" from Maxwell AFB!). These
units still are operating today at a level of about the same or a bit
less than my halcyon days.

Don't knock the CAP. It's still an excellent influence in the
environment. The CAP has two missions, vital to America as we know it;
Search and rescue, and Aerospace education for Tween's and Teens, Male
and Female "Cadets". Despite the wrangling and petty politics described
elsewhere, it remains, in my professional opinion an excellent tool to
develop our aerospace capabilities, our youth and our future. More than
one Cadet has passed through our (my) hands to go on to become
successful military pilots and officers.

> with certain pilots and named them. Just s few weeks later he flew the
> CAP plane through the Snake River canyon where it was about 100 feet
> wide and hit a cable 15 feet of the water. Killed him and destroyed
> the plane.

Very bad supervision coming from State Wing Headquarters. Field
inspections by Wing HQ should have identified and corrected these
characteristics.

> This year one of the other pilots who was known as
> marginal at best was on a mission and spun it in, killing himself and
> two other innocent humans. Also someone posted that you will be called
> for a mission in the middile of the night. i was told a CAP plane
> CANNOT fly bewteen sunset and sun up. as in , no night flying.

Not so according to my experience. Since virtually all US civilian
aircraft are fitted with an emergency locator transmitter (ELT),
airborne patterns can be flown to pinpoint the location of a downed
aircraft. But night qualification of pilots is a must. I did such flight
checkouts, as by 1967, I has my CFI and CFII. It was a mandate for our
units (Ohio).

> Probably just more BS that I was fed by the Wyoming CAP chapter. YMMV

Because things are wrong does not mean that they cannot be made right.
The biggest problem is that there are precious few persons that will
qualify for the (CAP) role. They must be (in the case of Air Operations)
1- a pilot, 2- be able to attend weekly meetings, 3- Buy and wear a
uniform, 4- have some financial resources to keep current their pilot's
license proficiency in type, 4- interested in unit organization and
operation and 5- willing to both participate in missions as well as some
aerospace education including routine orientation flights for cadets.
Persons of this ilk are not the "common man".

If any of you have these bents, look up you local CAP unit; they are
often in the phone book, though by now, they may have web pages. In my
opinion, our country's future depends on it. Be open-minded. expect
little for yourself. Do as asked.

Angelo Campanella

[Newps]

The Wyoming guys sound like student pilots on the radio. You have to
treat them with kid gloves.



wrote:
> On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" > wrote:
>
>>A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit, says
>>they're looking for pilots right now.
>>
>>I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
>>CAP.
>>
>>-Chris
>
>
> My experience with the Wyoming arm of the CAP was troubling at best. I
> offered to go though the Form 5 jump through the hoops process. The
> wing was and still is run by a bunch of ex military people who have
> the system set up to make it next to impossible for anew guy to get to
> fly "their" planes. After a year or so I threw in the towel and
> emailed the nationa commander to view my thoughts. I warned him of
> incompentence and the inbreed nature of the CAP here. I would not fly
> with certain pilots and named them. Just s few weeks later he flew the
> CAP plane through the Snake River canyon where it was about 100 feet
> wide and hit a cable 15 feet of the water. Killed him and destroyed
> the plane. This year one of the other pilots who was known as
> marginal at best was on a mission and spun it in, killing himself and
> two other innocent humans. Also someone posted that you will be called
> for a mission in the middile of the night. i was told a CAP plane
> CANNOT fly bewteen sunset and sun up. as in , no night flying.
> Probably just more BS that I was fed by the Wyoming CAP chapter. YMMV
>
>
> Ben
> www.haaspowerair.com
>

[NW_Pilot]

Gatt,

Locally I looked into the CAP and know a lot of people "Locals" that are in
the CAP "VUO And TTD" there is another one here it is run by the Clark
County Sheriff's Department seems like less of a clique, no fees, etc. Also
your phone don't work will be home for a few days I will be flying my bird a
bit then off to Denmark in a 172 then looks like few Cirrus over the pond to
the EU before the Africa trip.


"Gatt" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Viperdoc" > wrote in message
> ...
>>I had a similar experience with our local chapter. I described my
>>experiences as an Air Force flight surgeon, and offered to help teach
>>first aid, etc.
>>
>> Not one response. Makes one think they are a little clique that doesn't
>> want any outside participation.
>
> Well, we'll see. I have an in through a coworker, but I sent the local
> composite squadron commander an e-mail with a few questions and haven't
> gotten a response either. Interesting comments, moreso coming from
> different parts of the country.
>
> The main reason I asked is because my only other experience with the CAP
> was after Andrew in Baton Rouge when I was helping out at the FBO and they
> came in. Taxiway incursions, pilots ignoring the kids flagging them into
> the parking area and a bunch of old fatsters yelling at some -extremely-
> eager and well-behaved kids all day long. Some of these kids looked like
> beaten dogs; afraid of every adult around. One of the pilots was visibly
> offended that the FBO employee (my girlfriend who was an LSU honors
> student) driving the fuel truck was a woman. The FBO owner was as
> hot-headed as some of the pilots so pretty soon they were toe-to-toe
> yelling at each other in front of the kids on the tarmac. Really
> discouraging.
>
> The local branches seem to be really squared away, though. I see them
> coming through for fuel with the cadets and they seem very professional.
>
> -c
>
>
>
>

[Robert M. Gary]

On Nov 6, 4:10 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
> Morgans wrote:
>
> > Are you going to make your second career in the aviation industry?
>
> Many of us in the telecomm / data industry need to keep a plan ready.

Still looking hard for C++ programmers in Telecom. I interviewed a guy
yesterday that was pretty good (used to work in the labs at HP
Openview) but we'll see if the team likes him or not. If not we may
have to open the rec up for sponsorship (which is very expensive)
since its very hard to find programmers that already have the right to
work in the U.S.

http://seeker.dice.com/jobsearch/servlet/JobSearch?op=302&dockey=xml/7/f/7f6a153dc42992d4ae9d8772cf4ae123@endecaindex&source=19&FREE_TEXT=Objective+Systems+Integrators


-Robert

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Robert M. Gary wrote:
> On Nov 6, 4:10 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
>> Morgans wrote:
>>
>>> Are you going to make your second career in the aviation industry?
>> Many of us in the telecomm / data industry need to keep a plan ready.
>
> Still looking hard for C++ programmers in Telecom.

Lots of us in the telecomm industry aren't programmers. <G>

If I was, I would have been laid off a long time ago. My company
outsourced that to IBM / India a long time ago.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Nov 6, 10:40 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
> Robert M. Gary wrote:
> > On Nov 6, 4:10 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
> >> Morgans wrote:
>
> >>> Are you going to make your second career in the aviation industry?
> >> Many of us in the telecomm / data industry need to keep a plan ready.
>
> > Still looking hard for C++ programmers in Telecom.
>
> Lots of us in the telecomm industry aren't programmers. <G>
>
> If I was, I would have been laid off a long time ago. My company
> outsourced that to IBM / India a long time ago.

Too bad. If you have been laid off I know of 3 companies off the top
of my head that would be looking for you. Programmers in the U.S. can
be quiet hard to come by. The reason we hire in India as well is that
is where the programmers are. The cost savings is nearly nill at this
point. Top engineers in India are making nearly 6 figures, plus the
additional cost of having employees so far away, it doesn't save
money. However, I can get 6 resumes in India with one phone call, vs.
put an ad on Dice.com in the U.S. and wait 4 months.


-Robert

[NW_Pilot]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Nov 6, 10:40 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
>> Robert M. Gary wrote:
>> > On Nov 6, 4:10 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
>> >> Morgans wrote:
>>
>> >>> Are you going to make your second career in the aviation industry?
>> >> Many of us in the telecomm / data industry need to keep a plan ready.
>>
>> > Still looking hard for C++ programmers in Telecom.
>>
>> Lots of us in the telecomm industry aren't programmers. <G>
>>
>> If I was, I would have been laid off a long time ago. My company
>> outsourced that to IBM / India a long time ago.
>
> Too bad. If you have been laid off I know of 3 companies off the top
> of my head that would be looking for you. Programmers in the U.S. can
> be quiet hard to come by. The reason we hire in India as well is that
> is where the programmers are. The cost savings is nearly nill at this
> point. Top engineers in India are making nearly 6 figures, plus the
> additional cost of having employees so far away, it doesn't save
> money. However, I can get 6 resumes in India with one phone call, vs.
> put an ad on Dice.com in the U.S. and wait 4 months.
>
>
> -Robert
>

Yea, The only ones that have lasted in the US have been ones that could
afford to keep with the times and technology. I know some languages for
micro controllers that are now 98% obsolete. I was about ready to put off my
SMT equipment on Flea-Bay get rid of it for good. I have all the stuff to
rework Thru-Hole to BGA till my T.V.'s power supply went nutty dusted it off
fixed it along with few other items around the house then packed it up and
placed it in at attic again. I Dusted off my Superpro 680 also now nolonger
supported, http://www.xeltek.com/pages.php?pageid=11 and programmed a bunch
of atmels and pic chips for a friend this weekend.

I do miss the great income but what the hell!! I like what I do, Flying is
way more fun don't miss sitting in a room in front of a computer all day and
night at all again.

[Gatt]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...

> The reason we hire in India as well is that is where the programmers are.

The reason all the programmers are in India is because all the American
programmers were laid off.

> However, I can get 6 resumes in India with one phone call, vs.
> put an ad on Dice.com in the U.S. and wait 4 months.

A friend of mine works for Freightliner. They interviewed somebody over the
phone in India and paid to relocate him to the U.S. The guy moved his
family over here, rented a house and everything and about three weeks later
it became abundantly clear he wasn't the guy they interviewed on the phone.

Turns out that he'd hired some professional interviewee to secure the job
for him, and he in fact was totally unqualified for the position. For some
reason, Freightliner hasn't dismissed him for it. Meanwhile, a whole bunch
of qualified employees in Portland lost their job because Freightliner has
decided to move operations to Mexico.

America is, unfortunately, beginning to reap what it has sown.

-c

[xyzzy]

On Nov 6, 10:14 am, "Viperdoc" > wrote:
> I had a similar experience with our local chapter. I described my
> experiences as an Air Force flight surgeon, and offered to help teach first
> aid, etc.
>
> Not one response. Makes one think they are a little clique that doesn't want
> any outside participation.

That is the conclusion I drew from my attempt to volunteer with CAP
last year. It was like pulling teeth just to get the application
mailed in.

They are just a clique that is enjoying cheap flying on the govt's
dime and doesn't want anyone else in on their thing.

[R. Gardner]

Boy the WY outfit sounds bad, however here in PA I do not see those
problems. We take the mission and training very serious. By the way there
are 3 missions not 2, the old SAR and Aerospace Ed are still there but there
is also a homeland security side.

I also can't believe the number of non-resonse reports people have had. In
this area we all recognize that volunteers are usually over worked and if
there can be more added to the rolls the better it is for everyone. We take
any help you are willing to give and realize the average person can't be
running every weekend.

I started about 1969 as a cadet and then went USAF. Came back 7 or 8 years
ago as a SM to fly because I believe as a Pilot if I went down I'd want some
one to come looking so therefore I need to do the same for fellow pilots.
This is also what made me be a volunteer fire fighter for 15 years, if you
want someone available to put out your house fire or responded to your car
wreck then you need to be able to return the favor for others.

It is a military based system, paperwork, rule and regulations so you need
to be able to adapt to that and work with it. If you have problem units
then do what you can to change them, usually if you read and know the
regulations you can deal with those who try to buffalo you with BS.

Ron Gardner, DO
GRP 5, PAWG

"Newps" > wrote in message
. ..
> The Wyoming guys sound like student pilots on the radio. You have to
> treat them with kid gloves.
>
>
>
> wrote:
>> On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" > wrote:
>>
>>>A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit,
>>>says
>>>they're looking for pilots right now.
>>>
>>>I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to
>>>the
>>>CAP.
>>>
>>>-Chris
>>
>>
>> My experience with the Wyoming arm of the CAP was troubling at best. I
>> offered to go though the Form 5 jump through the hoops process. The
>> wing was and still is run by a bunch of ex military people who have
>> the system set up to make it next to impossible for anew guy to get to
>> fly "their" planes. After a year or so I threw in the towel and
>> emailed the nationa commander to view my thoughts. I warned him of
>> incompentence and the inbreed nature of the CAP here. I would not fly
>> with certain pilots and named them. Just s few weeks later he flew the
>> CAP plane through the Snake River canyon where it was about 100 feet
>> wide and hit a cable 15 feet of the water. Killed him and destroyed
>> the plane. This year one of the other pilots who was known as
>> marginal at best was on a mission and spun it in, killing himself and
>> two other innocent humans. Also someone posted that you will be called
>> for a mission in the middile of the night. i was told a CAP plane
>> CANNOT fly bewteen sunset and sun up. as in , no night flying.
>> Probably just more BS that I was fed by the Wyoming CAP chapter. YMMV
>>
>>
>> Ben
>> www.haaspowerair.com
>>

[Robert M. Gary]

On Nov 6, 1:22 pm, "Gatt" > wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in
> Turns out that he'd hired some professional interviewee to secure the job
> for him, and he in fact was totally unqualified for the position. For some
> reason, Freightliner hasn't dismissed him for it. Meanwhile, a whole bunch
> of qualified employees in Portland lost their job because Freightliner has
> decided to move operations to Mexico.
>
> America is, unfortunately, beginning to reap what it has sown.

At one point we used to bring our Indian employee applicants to the
U.S. to interview and train. They just made a joke of us. They came
out here on our dime, took weekends in San Fran. and quit the moment
they got back home. Now we have the team in India interview and train
employees in India. We later learned that most companies sign a
contract with their employees that requires they repay all training
cost if they leave in the 1st year.

-Robert

[F. Baum]

On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" > wrote:
>
> I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
> CAP.
>
> -Chris

Chris,
There is two CAP wings in my state. A power wing and a glider wing
(which works exclusivly with cadets). I am a member of both and I have
a nite and day difference in my experiences. Let me start by saying
that I am in the clique and I get to do as much flying as I want to,
so this isnt about sour grapes. The power wing has suffered from
incredibly poor leadership over the years. It is full of pilots who
just want to fly on the cheap and avoid any real work. The power
safety meetings always degrade into arguments over who has the biggest
twinkie. The safety record has been very poor (This is true nation
wide so whatch out !!).
The glider wing on the other hand has been one of the best experiences
I have had in aviation. The commanding officer and everyone else has
been great (Or we dont let them in ') ). The required safety meetings
are fun, and I love working with the cadets.
Much of your experience will depend on who is running the wing and who
they let in the door. Good luck!
KB

[[email protected]]

On Nov 6, 9:59 am, Newps > wrote:
> The Wyoming guys sound like student pilots on the radio. You have to
> treat them with kid gloves.
>
>
- Show quoted text -

Ya know. I didn't join the CAP to get free flight time, I have my own
plane and even my own airport. I joined so I could help another human
being that needs help in a timely manner. Let's add up the Wyoming
track record, they had four planes, two are destroyed, four people are
dead, all in two years. The thing that really got a chuckle out of me
was back about a month ago when the CAP was conducting a search for
Steve Fosset the networks were interviewing a woman CAP rep who was
very well spoken and sounded sincere, right up till the time a
reporter asked her if any other pilots would be allowed to help
search. Her response was " when the cowboys jump in their planes and
start searching we will ground all of our planes". This was just days
after one of "their" cowboys killed himself and two others in Northern
Wyoming looking for a lost hiker. Now granted, during a search every
one needs to be on the same page for safety there is nothing lost by
getting pilots together, make a plan for the CAP to search a given
sector and the others to each work different sectors. The more eyes
looking down the greater chance of a find, and at the end of the day
that's what search and rescue is all about. Her arrogent answer that
day has sealed the deal for me stay far away from the CAP.... Just my
two cents worth....

off my soapbox.

Ben

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

NW_Pilot wrote:
>
>
> Yea, The only ones that have lasted in the US have been ones that could
> afford to keep with the times and technology.

And are willing to work short contract stints.

I work for a super-duper way big company (310,000 employees), and almost
all of our programming is done on a contracting basis. An application
gets ordered, it gets coded as fast as possible by 2000 guys in India,
then the contractors get canned and there's no one to fix or modify the
thing.

One of the big issues today is the move to replace old databases with
SAP, but all the old application SME's that "didn't keep up with the
times" are gone.

Some of the old apps include 30+ years of undocumented work arounds, and
are based on many distributed, custom versions obtained via mergers and
takeovers. These are the basic daily operation systems for the
corporation. The vendors who sold the original applications either no
longer have access to the talent, or they demand way-insane, got ya' by
the short ones, consulting fees to help define the problem to be solved
in SAP.

[Robert M. Gary]

On Nov 7, 4:01 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
> NW_Pilot wrote:
>
> > Yea, The only ones that have lasted in the US have been ones that could
> > afford to keep with the times and technology.
>
> And are willing to work short contract stints.

The main reason businesses go for short term contracts (which are
usually more expensive) is because is damn hard to find programmers
out there to hire. Its a very, very tight market for employers.

-Robert

[NW_Pilot]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Nov 7, 4:01 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
>> NW_Pilot wrote:
>>
>> > Yea, The only ones that have lasted in the US have been ones that could
>> > afford to keep with the times and technology.
>>
>> And are willing to work short contract stints.
>
> The main reason businesses go for short term contracts (which are
> usually more expensive) is because is damn hard to find programmers
> out there to hire. Its a very, very tight market for employers.
>
> -Robert
>
>

It's almost as bad as the airlines there are programmers out there but no
one wants to pay the labor rates! So they outsource it to the u.s. prison
system or overseas to a poor third world country where people work for
almost nothing.

I am not going to spend 30-50k to learn new devices and languages and spend
1/4 of a year in classes to make 70-80K for maybe 2 years. Now back in the
day mid to late 90's I was paid to take the classes from the client or
provided contracts from leading device/component manufactures for attending.
Money was great 3 to 4 times what's paid now then rapidly declined when they
were able to outsource or bring in foreign workers and get tax breaks!!

USA = United Slaves Of America

[R. Gardner]

I saw her speak several times, but I missed that one! Ya know even the best
politician screws up sometimes. I hope someone straightened her out there
seems to be enough bad press already going around. But back to the
question, I believe I saw there were several non-CAP planes in on the
search.

Ron Gardner



> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Nov 6, 9:59 am, Newps > wrote:
>> The Wyoming guys sound like student pilots on the radio. You have to
>> treat them with kid gloves.
>>
>>
> - Show quoted text -
>
> Ya know. I didn't join the CAP to get free flight time, I have my own
> plane and even my own airport. I joined so I could help another human
> being that needs help in a timely manner. Let's add up the Wyoming
> track record, they had four planes, two are destroyed, four people are
> dead, all in two years. The thing that really got a chuckle out of me
> was back about a month ago when the CAP was conducting a search for
> Steve Fosset the networks were interviewing a woman CAP rep who was
> very well spoken and sounded sincere, right up till the time a
> reporter asked her if any other pilots would be allowed to help
> search. Her response was " when the cowboys jump in their planes and
> start searching we will ground all of our planes". This was just days
> after one of "their" cowboys killed himself and two others in Northern
> Wyoming looking for a lost hiker. Now granted, during a search every
> one needs to be on the same page for safety there is nothing lost by
> getting pilots together, make a plan for the CAP to search a given
> sector and the others to each work different sectors. The more eyes
> looking down the greater chance of a find, and at the end of the day
> that's what search and rescue is all about. Her arrogent answer that
> day has sealed the deal for me stay far away from the CAP.... Just my
> two cents worth....
>
> off my soapbox.
>
> Ben
>

[[email protected]]

On Nov 7, 4:45 pm, "R. Gardner" > wrote:
> I saw her speak several times, but I missed that one! Ya know even the best
> politician screws up sometimes. I hope someone straightened her out there
> seems to be enough bad press already going around. But back to the
> question, I believe I saw there were several non-CAP planes in on the
> search.
>
> Ron Gardner
>

If that was the case, my faith in the system is somewhat restored.
The Civil Air Patrol is a GREAT concept. It is the way that it's run
that ruins it. One has to remember, all the CAP planes are owned by
the US Air Force, as in they belong to all of us. The higher ups seem
to forget that quite often..

Safe flyin guys. !!

Ben

[Robert M. Gary]

On Nov 7, 2:21 pm, "NW_Pilot" >
wrote:
> "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in ooglegroups.com...
>
> > On Nov 7, 4:01 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
> >> NW_Pilot wrote:
>
> >> > Yea, The only ones that have lasted in the US have been ones that could
> >> > afford to keep with the times and technology.
>
> >> And are willing to work short contract stints.
>
> > The main reason businesses go for short term contracts (which are
> > usually more expensive) is because is damn hard to find programmers
> > out there to hire. Its a very, very tight market for employers.
>
> > -Robert
>
> It's almost as bad as the airlines there are programmers out there but no
> one wants to pay the labor rates! So they outsource it to the u.s. prison
> system or overseas to a poor third world country where people work for
> almost nothing.


Man, that's certainly not what I'm seeing. Companies are paying at
least 6 figures now plus benefits if they can get someone. I just
interviewed a programmer with years of C and C++ experience. I asked
her what the keyword "virtual" means in C++ and she didn't know. I
asked her what they keyword "static" means in C in different places in
code and she had no idea. Its a very tough market out there to find
programmers who have done more than just write scripts for their IT
department.

-Robert

[Gatt]

"F. Baum" > wrote in message
ps.com...
> On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" > wrote:
>>
>> I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to
>> the
>> CAP.
..
> Much of your experience will depend on who is running the wing and who
> they let in the door. Good luck!

Thanks for the insights information (everybody.) I'm still waiting to
hear from the unit commander, who hasn't returned my e-mail, and information
from the CAP which will probably come in the mail any day.

-c

[Gatt]

"B A R R Y" > wrote in message
t...

> Some of the old apps include 30+ years of undocumented work arounds, and
> are based on many distributed, custom versions obtained via mergers and
> takeovers. These are the basic daily operation systems for the
> corporation. The vendors who sold the original applications either no
> longer have access to the talent, or they demand way-insane, got ya' by
> the short ones, consulting fees to help define the problem to be solved in
> SAP.

You -just- described the future of my workplace. There's one person who
wrote the app, hasn't documented it and the company now relies on it. They
can't fire him because they replaced an industry-wide standard with a
software monopoly owned by one employee who spends all day long looking up
parts for his car. If he gets hit by a truck tomorrow there will be nobody
to support the application that interfaces thousands of customers.

We've been telling them that for three years, but...I don't know if it's
some MBA method that has been getting taught or what...management everywhere
seems to be a bunch of bobbleheads; they nod their heads at whatever you say
all day long, acknowledging what a big problem it is, but they never
actually -do- anything about those problems. When everything falls apart,
they take their severance, find a job elsewhere and move one. SNAFU.

-c

[[email protected]]

Come to Canada and try Civil Air Search and Rescue Association of
Canada, we are a military funded organization that assists the
military and the federal police searching for missing aircraft and
missing persons.

[[email protected]]

On Nov 6, 6:41 am, " > wrote:
> On Nov 5, 10:54 am, "Gatt" > wrote:
>
> > A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit, says
> > they're looking forpilotsright now.
>
> > I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
> > CAP.
>
> > -Chris
>
> My experience with the Wyoming arm of the CAP was troubling at best. I
> offered to go though the Form 5 jump through the hoops process. The
> wing was and still is run by a bunch of ex military people who have
> the system set up to make it next to impossible for anew guy to get to
> fly "their" planes. After a year or so I threw in the towel and
> emailed the nationa commander to view my thoughts. I warned him of
> incompentence and the inbreed nature of the CAP here. I would not fly
> with certainpilotsand named them. Just s few weeks later he flew the
> CAP plane through the Snake River canyon where it was about 100 feet
> wide and hit a cable 15 feet of the water. Killed him and destroyed
> the plane. This year one of the otherpilotswho was known as
> marginal at best was on a mission and spun it in, killing himself and
> two other innocent humans. Also someone posted that you will be called
> for a mission in the middile of the night. i was told a CAP plane
> CANNOT fly bewteen sunset and sun up. as in , no night flying.
> Probably just more BS that I was fed by the Wyoming CAP chapter. YMMV
>
> Benwww.haaspowerair.com

[[email protected]]

hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
gloves.

[[email protected]]

On Nov 24, 3:40 am, wrote:
> hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
> gloves.

Yeah,,, The CAP is full of "student pilots".. hence the high death
rate. :<(

[Robert M. Gary]

On Nov 24, 4:28 pm, " > wrote:
> On Nov 24, 3:40 am, wrote:
>
> > hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
> > gloves.
>
> Yeah,,, The CAP is full of "student pilots".. hence the high death
> rate. :<(

Wow, again this is very different from the CAP we have here in
California. If I had to guess I'd say the average number of hours for
a CAP mission pilot is about 2000 hours. In California there is very
little reason for student pilots fly since we really don't have
aircraft approved for student use (we are almost all 182's, which CAP
prohibits student instruction in). Besides our planes are so busy it
would be unlikely a commander would approve the use of such by
students. Finally, our dry rates are almost as high as an FBO (I know
some states have CAP aircraft available at reduced rate, we pay about
$80/hr dry here). Gas at CAP airports always seems higher (probably
because they are larger airports), around $5/gal right now.


-Robert

[[email protected]]

On Nov 24, 4:28 pm, " > wrote:
> On Nov 24, 3:40 am, wrote:
>
> > hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
> > gloves.
>
> Yeah,,, The CAP is full of "student pilots".. hence the high death
> rate. :<(

You're a arrogant moron, I am a Canadian and we don't have the student
death rates you americans do! we actually learn spin, stall, spiral
dive, and learn how to ditch a plane in a field. Our student death
rate is not like your american statistics.And we are actually taught
to land in a field rather than on a HIGHWAY full of CARS like you
americans. So keep your ****ty attitude to yourself. And by the way, I
am female and we don't have the death rate per capita that you macho
male students have either, so shut your pie hole and keep your
negative bull**** to yourself.

[[email protected]]

On Nov 26, 2:15 am, wrote:
> On Nov 24, 4:28 pm, " > wrote:
>
> > On Nov 24, 3:40 am, wrote:
>
> > > hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
> > > gloves.
>
> > Yeah,,, The CAP is full of "student pilots".. hence the high death
> > rate. :<(
>
> You're a arrogant moron, I am a Canadian and we don't have the student
> death rates you americans do! we actually learn spin, stall, spiral
> dive, and learn how to ditch a plane in a field. Our student death
> rate is not like your american statistics.And we are actually taught
> to land in a field rather than on a HIGHWAY full of CARS like you
> americans. So keep your ****ty attitude to yourself. And by the way, I
> am female and we don't have the death rate per capita that you macho
> male students have either, so shut your pie hole and keep your
> negative bull**** to yourself.

I hope you make a safe pilot....

And I hope your engine never fails over a highway with cliffs,
mountains, water or any other obstruction bordering it.

I am not a student pilot, been flyin for longer then you have probably
been alive, and have probably owned more planes then you have piloted.
Now sit down and take a chill pill..

Safe flying out there guys,,,, and girls. <G>

[Allen[_1_]]

> wrote in message
...
> On Nov 24, 4:28 pm, " > wrote:
>> On Nov 24, 3:40 am, wrote:
>>
>> > hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
>> > gloves.
>>
>> Yeah,,, The CAP is full of "student pilots".. hence the high death
>> rate. :<(
>
> You're a arrogant moron, I am a Canadian and we don't have the student
> death rates you americans do! we actually learn spin, stall, spiral
> dive, and learn how to ditch a plane in a field. Our student death
> rate is not like your american statistics.And we are actually taught
> to land in a field rather than on a HIGHWAY full of CARS like you
> americans. So keep your ****ty attitude to yourself. And by the way, I
> am female and we don't have the death rate per capita that you macho
> male students have either, so shut your pie hole and keep your
> negative bull**** to yourself.

There are stupid people everywhere, sometimes you need look no farther than
your own backyard:

From today's AvWeb

Pilot Faces Charges In Roadway Takeoff Crash

Sometimes things just go from bad to worse. According to the Thunder Bay
Chronicle Journal, a 25-year-old Timmins, Ont., pilot faces a fine of up to
$10,000 in a chain of events that began with a successful emergency road
landing and ended with his badly damaged Grumman American in a ditch after
an aborted takeoff. The aircraft apparently had engine problems while on a
flight to Thunder Bay and the pilot set it down on a gravel road near the
hamlet of Hurkett, Ont., about 80 kilometers east of Thunder Bay. The pilot
apparently fixed the problem to his satisfaction and that's when the real
trouble started.

The pilot tried to take off but the aircraft slipped on some ice and slid
into a ditch. According to witness Jim White, the plane's nose gear sheared
and there's damage to the main gear, wings and nose. "It hit (the ditch)
pretty good," said White, who helped the pilot push the damaged plane onto
his property. The pilot was reportedly shaken but not seriously hurt. To
make a bad day worse, police arrived to inform the pilot he's allegedly
violated provincial laws concerning roadway takeoffs. According to Ontario
law, before anyone flies off a road, the aircraft has to be checked for
airworthiness and police must be called to barricade a section of the road
to accommodate the takeoff. The pilot will be in court to face the charges
Feb. 25.

--

*H. Allen Smith*
WACO - We are all here, because we are not all there.

[Yes - I have a name[_2_]]

> wrote in message news:bec6bc9e-e582-4869-b1be-
> You're a arrogant moron
<snip>
> so shut your pie hole and keep your
> negative bull**** to yourself.

Your attitude makes me really want to "Come to Canada and try Civil Air
Search and Rescue Association of
Canada, "

Thanks, but no thanks. I'll take an arrogant american over you any day of
the week.

[Gatt]

> wrote in message
...

>And we are actually taught to land in a field rather than on a HIGHWAY
>full of CARS like you
> americans.

WTF is she talking about? We don't practice short/soft field landings in
primary training?

-c

[[email protected]]

On Nov 8, 8:42 am, "Robert M. Gary" > wrote:
> On Nov 7, 2:21 pm, "NW_Pilot" >
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Robert M. Gary" > wrote in ooglegroups.com...
>
> > > On Nov 7, 4:01 am, B A R R Y > wrote:
> > >> NW_Pilot wrote:
>
> > >> > Yea, The only ones that have lasted in the US have been ones that could
> > >> > afford to keep with the times and technology.
>
> > >> And are willing to work short contract stints.
>
> > > The main reason businesses go for short term contracts (which are
> > > usually more expensive) is because is damn hard to find programmers
> > > out there to hire. Its a very, very tight market for employers.
>
> > > -Robert
>
> > It's almost as bad as the airlines there are programmers out there but no
> > one wants to pay the labor rates! So they outsource it to the u.s. prison
> > system or overseas to a poor third world country where people work for
> > almost nothing.
>
> Man, that's certainly not what I'm seeing. Companies are paying at
> least 6 figures now plus benefits if they can get someone. I just
> interviewed a programmer with years of C and C++ experience. I asked
> her what the keyword "virtual" means in C++ and she didn't know. I
> asked her what they keyword "static" means in C in different places in
> code and she had no idea. Its a very tough market out there to find
> programmers who have done more than just write scripts for their IT
> department.
>
> -Robert- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Do you allow software engineers to work remotely with your team? If
so, there are lots of C++ programmers in Boise that are available,
some from HP, some from Micron. You might try advertising here. I
doubt many of them want to move to California though. I know that I
don't...

[[email protected]]

Hey you're okay, it was just that other asshole who couldn't keep his
pie hole shut. As for the "cliffs" and stuff, here in Alberta there
are is nothing but flat land for hundreds of miles except when you get
near British Columbia.

[[email protected]]

Actually I am not really that way, I just get sick of guys who think
they know everything and have an insulting attitude towards everyone
who is not them looking back at them from the mirror. Really, I like
Americans, they tend to be real polite and really down to earth.
Sorry, I was being an ass when I said what I said. You would really
like flying up here. There are alot of Americans here, especially in
Calgary Alberta. You would probably hate the weather, it is like the
freaking north pole sometimes, without the polar bear.

[[email protected]]

On Nov 26, 7:15 am, " > wrote:
> On Nov 26, 2:15 am, wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Nov 24, 4:28 pm, " > wrote:
>
> > > On Nov 24, 3:40 am, wrote:
>
> > > > hey, I am a student pilot and I don't need to be handled with kid
> > > > gloves.
>
> > > Yeah,,, The CAP is full of "student pilots".. hence the high death
> > > rate. :<(
>
> > You're a arrogant moron, I am a Canadian and we don't have the student
> > death rates you americans do! we actually learn spin, stall, spiral
> > dive, and learn how to ditch a plane in a field. Our student death
> > rate is not like your american statistics.And we are actually taught
> > to land in a field rather than on a HIGHWAY full of CARS like you
> > americans. So keep your ****ty attitude to yourself. And by the way, I
> > am female and we don't have the death rate per capita that you macho
> > male students have either, so shut your pie hole and keep your
> > negative bull**** to yourself.
>
> I hope you make a safe pilot....
>
> And I hope your engine never fails over a highway with cliffs,
> mountains, water or any other obstruction bordering it.
>
> I am not a student pilot, been flyin for longer then you have probably
> been alive, and have probably owned more planes then you have piloted.
> Now sit down and take a chill pill..
>
> Safe flying out there guys,,,, and girls. <G>- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Hi, thanks, at least you are not condescending, and I always pick
flight instructors who are older and have thousands of hours in their
log books. Fly safe.

[N22Tango]

A coworker is a radio specialist for the local Civil Air Patrol unit, says
they're looking for pilots right now.

I'm just curious what thoughts or experiences people have with regard to the
CAP.

-Chris

The Civil Air Patrol is losing a lot of friends among General Aviation pilots. I was a CAP Cadet when I was 12 (years ago) but left to pursue other interests.

The original charter for the Civil Air Patrol was basically Search and Rescue and Education. But in recent years, the CAP has found they can "grow" their business by spying on unsuspecting (and innocent) citizens and fellow aviators. By doing "dirty work" for the DEA and Homeland Security, the CAP has been receiving millions and millions in additional taxpayer funding to purchase night vision scopes (the same as seen on Apache AH-64 helicopters) and other "goodies" for spying. I'm all for catching Osama Bin Hidin' and his thugs and for keeping meth-labs shut down, but Civil Air Patrol guys are not full-time law enforcement officers trained in espionage and surveillance. And there are too many occasions where young CAP pilots have violated the CAP safety & ethics code. I don't have the link, but Google "AVWEB Civil Air Patrol Addicted To Drugs" and you see that the CAP has basically prostituted itself to get more money for larger airplanes, vans, new offices, hundreds of more new Cessna aircraft. And this link (just add the "dot-com" at the end of the link, www.ConcernedPilotsOfAmerica.com ) will show more aviation folks are disgusted at the Civil Air Patrol.

I for one, believe throwing $50 million a year at the Civil Air Patrol isn't prudent stewardship of taxpayer funds. Leave espionage, law enforcement and spying up to the existing agencies and let the CAP concentrate on their original mission... Just my 2 cents worth...