Minden - help!

[bumper]

I've served on the Minden Airport Advisory Committee for 3 years now,
representing the soaring community. It's been one fight after another. This
time airport management is proposing to change the airport rules to require
all vehicle operators (golf carts etc) to pass a written test and be issued
a card to wear around their neck before being allowed to cross the runway,
towing a glider or otherwise.

This is certainly a good thing, and needed for safety, for non-pilots and
employees of airport businesses. However, for pilots, who obviously already
have the training and know how to operate upon and across runways, I see
this as unnecessary and potentially injurious to soaring here. It's one more
hurdle for visiting pilots and one more reason for them to go elsewhere to
avoid the hassle. (note that they will have a 3-day waiver pass that will
allow one visit without taking their test).

Consider what would happen if every soaring airport across the country had
their own required test. It's about as ludicrous as every community
requiring extra driver training before you can drive through their town.

If you feel as I do, please send me a short private email - - include your
name and home town. If this proposed rule would lessen the likelihood you'd
visit Minden - - include that.

I will present the emails to the Douglas Board of County Commissioners. They
have previously voted a resolution stating that they care about and want to
promote soaring here, let's hold them to it!

email to

bumperm "at" att "dot" net

thanks for helping,

bumper
ZZ Minden

[[email protected]]

On Nov 6, 12:41 pm, "bumper" > wrote:
> I've served on the Minden Airport Advisory Committee for 3 years now,
> representing the soaring community. It's been one fight after another. This
> time airport management is proposing to change the airport rules to require
> all vehicle operators (golf carts etc) to pass a written test and be issued
> a card to wear around their neck before being allowed to cross the runway,
> towing a glider or otherwise.
>
> This is certainly a good thing, and needed for safety, for non-pilots and
> employees of airport businesses. However, for pilots, who obviously already
> have the training and know how to operate upon and across runways, I see
> this as unnecessary and potentially injurious to soaring here. It's one more
> hurdle for visiting pilots and one more reason for them to go elsewhere to
> avoid the hassle. (note that they will have a 3-day waiver pass that will
> allow one visit without taking their test).
>
> Consider what would happen if every soaring airport across the country had
> their own required test. It's about as ludicrous as every community
> requiring extra driver training before you can drive through their town.
>
> If you feel as I do, please send me a short private email - - include your
> name and home town. If this proposed rule would lessen the likelihood you'd
> visit Minden - - include that.
>
> I will present the emails to the Douglas Board of County Commissioners. They
> have previously voted a resolution stating that they care about and want to
> promote soaring here, let's hold them to it!
>
> email to
>
> bumperm "at" att "dot" net
>
> thanks for helping,
>
> bumper
> ZZ Minden

I must be misreading this. They are going to allow a 3 day one time
waiver and then next time you must take a test to prove you know what
your doing? What about the first time?

[5Z]

On Nov 6, 3:11 pm, wrote:
> I must be misreading this. They are going to allow a 3 day one time
> waiver and then next time you must take a test to prove you know what
> your doing? What about the first time?

Heh, I used to work as a contractor at a US Naval installation. My
coworker had over 30 years experience riding a motorcycle on several
US bases and they wouldn't give him a gate access sticker until he
took a weekend motorcycle safety class. Since the next class was in 2
months, they gave him a temporary pass, just as they would the 19 year
old who just bought a first bike. Go figure.

-Tom

[XYZ]

I don't see the issue. if there was a fee attached, I could see a problem,
but why don't you just
take the test and move on..... If I compare the burden of having to take a
driving test
to the payoff of getting to fly at a site that has thermals that suck
trailers off the ground
and waves you can see the curvature of the earth from.... Its a no brainer
to me......
Please remember that some of us call 400 ft/min outstanding soaring......

Have a great day

Scott


"5Z" > wrote in message
s.com...
> On Nov 6, 3:11 pm, wrote:
>> I must be misreading this. They are going to allow a 3 day one time
>> waiver and then next time you must take a test to prove you know what
>> your doing? What about the first time?
>
> Heh, I used to work as a contractor at a US Naval installation. My
> coworker had over 30 years experience riding a motorcycle on several
> US bases and they wouldn't give him a gate access sticker until he
> took a weekend motorcycle safety class. Since the next class was in 2
> months, they gave him a temporary pass, just as they would the 19 year
> old who just bought a first bike. Go figure.
>
> -Tom
>

[bumper]

The 3 day "Visitor waiver pass" has a list of driving rules, sensible ones
too, with some insight as to the particular safety issues at Minden (I
helped write them). It also has a "tear-off and turn-in" for you to sign
with your insurance and license info.

This 3-day waiver was in response to our complaints (the runway crossing
safety workgroup) that their rule would prohibit weekend visiting pilots
from operating at Minden. (Note that they originally included banning even
pushing your glider by hand onto the runway without taking the test. This we
have that part stricken, but it may come back.)

Bottom line: Can you imagine the hassle it would be for a pilot on vacation
or safari visiting airports across the county if he had to take a site
specific test for each? The training required of pilots to operate on and
across airport runways is included in the FAA test standards. It is not, IMO
the purview of individual airports to test pilots.

bumper

> wrote in message
oups.com...
> On Nov 6, 12:41 pm, "bumper" > wrote:
>> I've served on the Minden Airport Advisory Committee for 3 years now,
>> representing the soaring community. It's been one fight after another.
>> This
>> time airport management is proposing to change the airport rules to
>> require
>> all vehicle operators (golf carts etc) to pass a written test and be
>> issued
>> a card to wear around their neck before being allowed to cross the
>> runway,
>> towing a glider or otherwise.
>>
>> This is certainly a good thing, and needed for safety, for non-pilots and
>> employees of airport businesses. However, for pilots, who obviously
>> already
>> have the training and know how to operate upon and across runways, I see
>> this as unnecessary and potentially injurious to soaring here. It's one
>> more
>> hurdle for visiting pilots and one more reason for them to go elsewhere
>> to
>> avoid the hassle. (note that they will have a 3-day waiver pass that will
>> allow one visit without taking their test).
>>
>> Consider what would happen if every soaring airport across the country
>> had
>> their own required test. It's about as ludicrous as every community
>> requiring extra driver training before you can drive through their town.
>>
>> If you feel as I do, please send me a short private email - - include
>> your
>> name and home town. If this proposed rule would lessen the likelihood
>> you'd
>> visit Minden - - include that.
>>
>> I will present the emails to the Douglas Board of County Commissioners.
>> They
>> have previously voted a resolution stating that they care about and want
>> to
>> promote soaring here, let's hold them to it!
>>
>> email to
>>
>> bumperm "at" att "dot" net
>>
>> thanks for helping,
>>
>> bumper
>> ZZ Minden
>
> I must be misreading this. They are going to allow a 3 day one time
> waiver and then next time you must take a test to prove you know what
> your doing? What about the first time?
>
>

[bagmaker]

I don't see the issue. if there was a fee attached, I could see a problem,
but why don't you just
take the test and move on..... If I compare the burden of having to take a
driving test
to the payoff of getting to fly at a site that has thermals that suck
trailers off the ground
and waves you can see the curvature of the earth from.... Its a no brainer
to me......
Please remember that some of us call 400 ft/min outstanding soaring......

Have a great day

Scott



Scott.....Scott, Scott, (shaking head, tears welling, hands wringing)

The issue partly is that a fee will, one day, be attached.
No brainer there, captive earner them wealthy pilot types, start at maybe $30 and increase anually.
Another issue is our right to do perfectly safe things on public land just because there is nothing the hell wrong with it.

Fight these faceless, beige beauracrats for all you are worth, Mr Bumper, it is they who attack the very moral fibre of us free-loading flyers, thermal thieves of the world.

Ask of anything similar.....

who benefits?

If the answer is no-one then you are being mis-lead

I bet there is an insurance company behind it, find out who, why and with what precendence.

Try also hitting these worthless beige fools with some statistics, they love that.
How many incidents have happened recently to cause this licencing? (you had better know before asking)
How many incidents is it expected to decrease the proported problem by? (do some estimation yourself)
How much will it affect operations, thus customers? (your answer will be "to reduce operations, patronage, thus dollars into the area)
What is the worst possible outcome if the plan goes forward, and what will it do to the area of Minden in general? ( answer should = bad)



Then you might fall back on the "danger if persons cant legally access the field in an emergency" road.

Good luck

bagger

[Frank Whiteley]

On Nov 6, 11:08 pm, bagmaker >
wrote:
> -I don't see the issue. if there was a fee attached, I could see a
> problem,
> but why don't you just
> take the test and move on..... If I compare the burden of having to
> take a
> driving test
> to the payoff of getting to fly at a site that has thermals that suck
>
> trailers off the ground
> and waves you can see the curvature of the earth from.... Its a no
> brainer
> to me......
> Please remember that some of us call 400 ft/min outstanding
> soaring......
>
> Have a great day
>
> Scott
>
> -
>
> Scott.....Scott, Scott, (shaking head, tears welling, hands wringing)
>
> The issue partly is that a fee will, one day, be attached.
> No brainer there, captive earner them wealthy pilot types, start at
> maybe $30 and increase anually.
> Another issue is our right to do perfectly safe things on public land
> just because there is nothing the hell wrong with it.
>
> Fight these faceless, beige beauracrats for all you are worth, Mr
> Bumper, it is they who attack the very moral fibre of us free-loading
> flyers, thermal thieves of the world.
>
> Ask of anything similar.....
>
> who benefits?
>
> If the answer is no-one then you are being mis-lead
>
> I bet there is an insurance company behind it, find out who, why and
> with what precendence.
>
> Try also hitting these worthless beige fools with some statistics, they
> love that.
> How many incidents have happened recently to cause this licencing? (you
> had better know before asking)
> How many incidents is it expected to decrease the proported problem by?
> (do some estimation yourself)
> How much will it affect operations, thus customers? (your answer will
> be "to reduce operations, patronage, thus dollars into the area)
> What is the worst possible outcome if the plan goes forward, and what
> will it do to the area of Minden in general? ( answer should = bad)
>
> Then you might fall back on the "danger if persons cant legally access
> the field in an emergency" road.
>
> Good luck
>
> bagger
>
> --
> bagmaker
Op-ed
http://www.recordcourier.com/article/20071026/Opinion/110260052

Guest op-ed
http://www.recordcourier.com/article/20071107/Opinion/111070031

Recall that the airport authorities suspended Soar Minden for three
weeks earlier this year (during busy time) due to a fuel tanker
mishap. I don't think that's fully resolved yet.

[JS]

On Nov 6, 4:42 pm, "XYZ" > wrote:
> I don't see the issue.

The point was missed.
First the driving test, then the fees, then....
Clark County, Nevada (containing Las Vegas) requires a driving test,
a $25.00 access fee, and half a million dollars liability insurance on
vehicles which operate on "their" airports. You must send them a copy
of the vehicle insurance policy each time it is renewed, or your gate
card stops working.
They don't check aircraft insurance, or make you take a test in your
aircraft!
If you were to land at Minden (done that), you'll soon have to find
someone else to tow your glider around, and hopefully they'll pull
your trailer on and off the field too. If you land after everyone
helpful has left, you're hosed.
Jim
And did I detect thermal envy?

[bagmaker]

;571502]On Nov 6, 12:41 pm, "bumper" wrote:
I've served on the Minden Airport Advisory Committee for 3 years now,
representing the soaring community. It's been one fight after another. This
time airport management is proposing to change the airport rules to require
all vehicle operators (golf carts etc) to pass a written test and be issued
a card to wear around their neck before being allowed to cross the runway,
towing a glider or otherwise.

This is certainly a good thing, and needed for safety, for non-pilots and
employees of airport businesses. However, for pilots, who obviously already
have the training and know how to operate upon and across runways, I see
this as unnecessary and potentially injurious to soaring here. It's one more
hurdle for visiting pilots and one more reason for them to go elsewhere to
avoid the hassle. (note that they will have a 3-day waiver pass that will
allow one visit without taking their test).

Consider what would happen if every soaring airport across the country had
their own required test. It's about as ludicrous as every community
requiring extra driver training before you can drive through their town.

If you feel as I do, please send me a short private email - - include your
name and home town. If this proposed rule would lessen the likelihood you'd
visit Minden - - include that.

I will present the emails to the Douglas Board of County Commissioners. They
have previously voted a resolution stating that they care about and want to
promote soaring here, let's hold them to it!

email to

bumperm "at" att "dot" net

thanks for helping,

bumper
ZZ Minden

So Mr Bumper, an update, any success?

Bagger

[bumper]

Dear Bagmaker,

Thanks for asking. I did get a lot of supportive response. I packaged those
all together, along with a cover letter, and sent it to each county
commissioner and also to the county manager etc.

The Board of County Commissioner's meeting is on the 6th of Dec, 1 PM at
1616 8th St. Minden, NV. There will be several airport related issues on the
agenda, including this one.

I've talked to several people re these issues and am hopeful reason will
prevail. I'll be at the meeting and will give a follow up report after.

all the best,

bumper
zz
Minden, NV
"bagmaker" > wrote in message
...
>
> ;571502 Wrote:
>> On Nov 6, 12:41 pm, "bumper" wrote:-
>> I've served on the Minden Airport Advisory Committee for 3 years now,
>> representing the soaring community. It's been one fight after another.
>> This
>> time airport management is proposing to change the airport rules to
>> require
>> all vehicle operators (golf carts etc) to pass a written test and be
>> issued
>> a card to wear around their neck before being allowed to cross the
>> runway,
>> towing a glider or otherwise.
>>
>> This is certainly a good thing, and needed for safety, for non-pilots
>> and
>> employees of airport businesses. However, for pilots, who obviously
>> already
>> have the training and know how to operate upon and across runways, I
>> see
>> this as unnecessary and potentially injurious to soaring here. It's
>> one more
>> hurdle for visiting pilots and one more reason for them to go
>> elsewhere to
>> avoid the hassle. (note that they will have a 3-day waiver pass that
>> will
>> allow one visit without taking their test).
>>
>> Consider what would happen if every soaring airport across the country
>> had
>> their own required test. It's about as ludicrous as every community
>> requiring extra driver training before you can drive through their
>> town.
>>
>> If you feel as I do, please send me a short private email - - include
>> your
>> name and home town. If this proposed rule would lessen the likelihood
>> you'd
>> visit Minden - - include that.
>>
>> I will present the emails to the Douglas Board of County
>> Commissioners. They
>> have previously voted a resolution stating that they care about and
>> want to
>> promote soaring here, let's hold them to it!
>>
>> email to
>>
>> bumperm "at" att "dot" net
>>
>> thanks for helping,
>>
>> bumper
>> ZZ Minden-
>>
>> So Mr Bumper, an update, any success?
>>
>> Bagger
>
>
>
>
> --
> bagmaker

[Frank Whiteley]

On Nov 28, 10:29 am, "bumper" > wrote:
> Dear Bagmaker,
>
> Thanks for asking. I did get a lot of supportive response. I packaged those
> all together, along with a cover letter, and sent it to each county
> commissioner and also to the county manager etc.
>
> The Board of County Commissioner's meeting is on the 6th of Dec, 1 PM at
> 1616 8th St.Minden, NV. There will be several airport related issues on the
> agenda, including this one.
>
> I've talked to several people re these issues and am hopeful reason will
> prevail. I'll be at the meeting and will give a follow up report after.
>
> all the best,
>
> bumper
> zzMinden, NV"bagmaker" > wrote in message
>
> ...
>
>
>
> > ;571502 Wrote:
> >> On Nov 6, 12:41 pm, "bumper" wrote:-
> >> I've served on theMindenAirport Advisory Committee for 3 years now,
> >> representing the soaring community. It's been one fight after another.
> >> This
> >> time airport management is proposing to change the airport rules to
> >> require
> >> all vehicle operators (golf carts etc) to pass a written test and be
> >> issued
> >> a card to wear around their neck before being allowed to cross the
> >> runway,
> >> towing a glider or otherwise.
>
> >> This is certainly a good thing, and needed for safety, for non-pilots
> >> and
> >> employees of airport businesses. However, for pilots, who obviously
> >> already
> >> have the training and know how to operate upon and across runways, I
> >> see
> >> this as unnecessary and potentially injurious to soaring here. It's
> >> one more
> >> hurdle for visiting pilots and one more reason for them to go
> >> elsewhere to
> >> avoid the hassle. (note that they will have a 3-day waiver pass that
> >> will
> >> allow one visit without taking their test).
>
> >> Consider what would happen if every soaring airport across the country
> >> had
> >> their own required test. It's about as ludicrous as every community
> >> requiring extra driver training before you can drive through their
> >> town.
>
> >> If you feel as I do, please send me a short private email - - include
> >> your
> >> name and home town. If this proposed rule would lessen the likelihood
> >> you'd
> >> visitMinden- - include that.
>
> >> I will present the emails to the Douglas Board of County
> >> Commissioners. They
> >> have previously voted a resolution stating that they care about and
> >> want to
> >> promote soaring here, let's hold them to it!
>
> >> email to
>
> >> bumperm "at" att "dot" net
>
> >> thanks for helping,
>
> >> bumper
> >> ZZMinden-
>
> >> So Mr Bumper, an update, any success?
>
> >> Bagger
>
> > --
> > bagmaker

bumper gives perspective

http://www.recordcourier.com/article/20071128/Opinion/111280043

I do know of an Indiana club that was forced out by a jet center,
after the country club golf course was surrounded by McMansions

[bumper]

"Frank Whiteley" > wrote in message
...
> On Nov 28, 10:29 am, "bumper" > wrote:
>> Dear Bagmaker,
>>
>> The Board of County Commissioner's meeting is on the 6th of Dec, 1 PM at
>> 1616 8th St.Minden, NV. There will be several airport related issues on
>> the
>> agenda, including this one.
>>
>> I've talked to several people re these issues and am hopeful reason will
>> prevail. I'll be at the meeting and will give a follow up report after.
>>
>> all the best,
>>
>> bumper
>> zzMinden, NV"bagmaker" > wrote in
>> message


Follow up report:

It was formally announced that the airport manager will retire 22 Feb 08.
The assistant county manager, Michael Brown will take over managing the
airport on an interim basis (this is good news). There was a lot of
rhetoric, but no real decisions made, and none were made on the "driving
test" change to airport rules - - it wasn't even brought up. The
commissioners reiterated that they want to see soaring to grow at Minden.

We are making progress . . . thanks again for your help.

bumper
zz Minden

[Mike I Green[_2_]]

Thanks Bumper.

mike green

bumper wrote:
> "Frank Whiteley" > wrote in message
> ...
>> On Nov 28, 10:29 am, "bumper" > wrote:
>>> Dear Bagmaker,
>>>
>>> The Board of County Commissioner's meeting is on the 6th of Dec, 1 PM at
>>> 1616 8th St.Minden, NV. There will be several airport related issues on
>>> the
>>> agenda, including this one.
>>>
>>> I've talked to several people re these issues and am hopeful reason will
>>> prevail. I'll be at the meeting and will give a follow up report after.
>>>
>>> all the best,
>>>
>>> bumper
>>> zzMinden, NV"bagmaker" > wrote in
>>> message
>
>
> Follow up report:
>
> It was formally announced that the airport manager will retire 22 Feb 08.
> The assistant county manager, Michael Brown will take over managing the
> airport on an interim basis (this is good news). There was a lot of
> rhetoric, but no real decisions made, and none were made on the "driving
> test" change to airport rules - - it wasn't even brought up. The
> commissioners reiterated that they want to see soaring to grow at Minden.
>
> We are making progress . . . thanks again for your help.
>
> bumper
> zz Minden
>
>