U.S. WWII fighter plane found on coast of Wales

[AJ]

Link to the NY Daily News story, with two photos:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/11/15/2007-11-15_us_wwii_fighter_plane_found_on_coast_of_.html

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

AJ > wrote in
:

> Link to the NY Daily News story, with two photos:
> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/11/15/2007-11-15_us_wwii
> _fighter_plane_found_on_coast_of_.html
>

Yes, apparently it's the oldest known surviving '38


Bertie

[Kingfish]

Odd how they'd be concerned with onboard fuel. You'd think by now it
either leaked out or has been contaminated by seawater and rendered
inert?

[Roy Smith]

In article
>,
Kingfish > wrote:

> Odd how they'd be concerned with onboard fuel. You'd think by now it
> either leaked out or has been contaminated by seawater and rendered
> inert?

Even odder is that the article says, "a fuel supply error forced him to
make an emergency landing on the beach near Harlech". I read "fuel supply
error" as "running out of fuel". My guess is they're just trying to scare
the souvenir seekers away.

[Darkwing]

"Roy Smith" > wrote in message
...
> In article
> >,
> Kingfish > wrote:
>
>> Odd how they'd be concerned with onboard fuel. You'd think by now it
>> either leaked out or has been contaminated by seawater and rendered
>> inert?
>
> Even odder is that the article says, "a fuel supply error forced him to
> make an emergency landing on the beach near Harlech". I read "fuel supply
> error" as "running out of fuel". My guess is they're just trying to scare
> the souvenir seekers away.

Good catch, that is funny.

---------------------------------------
DW

[Jeff Dougherty]

On Nov 15, 9:33 am, Roy Smith > wrote:
> In article
> >,
>
> Kingfish > wrote:
> > Odd how they'd be concerned with onboard fuel. You'd think by now it
> > either leaked out or has been contaminated by seawater and rendered
> > inert?
>
> Even odder is that the article says, "a fuel supply error forced him to
> make an emergency landing on the beach near Harlech". I read "fuel supply
> error" as "running out of fuel". My guess is they're just trying to scare
> the souvenir seekers away.

Unless, perhaps, by "error" they mean "malfunction"? Just
speculating, but: the P-38 had main and reserve tanks for each
engine. If for some reason the pilot waited too long to test his
ability to switch from main to reserve and was then unable to do so,
he might find himself having to land in an awful hurry. That could
also have caused it to land with a fair amount of fuel on board. I
don't know how the switching was handled on the -38, so I don't know
how likely a malfunction this was- switching failure on both engines
doesn't sound very likely but if there were common components between
both fuel systems one of those could have failed.

Granted, it would be poor technique to wait until your gas in one set
of tanks was gone to see if you could switch to the others, but
mistakes do happen.

-JTD

[Dana M. Hague]

On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 09:33:07 -0500, Roy Smith > wrote:

>In article
>,
> Kingfish > wrote:
>
>> Odd how they'd be concerned with onboard fuel. You'd think by now it
>> either leaked out or has been contaminated by seawater and rendered
>> inert?

Just as amusing is the statement "It still has a lot of high-octane
fuel onboard, so it's important that the public doesn't go near it,"
as if high octane fuel is somehow more dangerous than low octane
fuel...

Unless they're concerned about the lead, which I doubt.

-Dana
--
--
If replying by email, please make the obvious changes.
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What has four legs and an arm? A happy pit bull.

[BT]

mm... all that time in the water does not sound like "surviving"
BT

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> AJ > wrote in
> :
>
>> Link to the NY Daily News story, with two photos:
>> http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/11/15/2007-11-15_us_wwii
>> _fighter_plane_found_on_coast_of_.html
>>
>
> Yes, apparently it's the oldest known surviving '38
>
>
> Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"BT" > wrote in :

> mm... all that time in the water does not sound like "surviving"=


Depends on the defintion applied of course. I wouldn't say they'll get it
flying, somehow.


Bertie

[Steven P. McNicoll]

"Dana M. Hague" <d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net> wrote in message
...
>
> Just as amusing is the statement "It still has a lot of high-octane
> fuel onboard, so it's important that the public doesn't go near it,"
> as if high octane fuel is somehow more dangerous than low octane
> fuel...
>
> Unless they're concerned about the lead, which I doubt.
>

What fuel?

"On September 27, 1942, fuel exhaustion during a training mission forced 2nd
Lt Robert Fred Elliot to land the large twin-engine fighter in shallow water
on the beach."

http://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/2007/11/07/harlech-beach-gives-up-secrets-of-american-plane-55578-20072078/

[Denny]

On Nov 15, 7:36 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> "BT" > wrote :
>
> > mm... all that time in the water does not sound like "surviving"=
>
> Depends on the defintion applied of course. I wouldn't say they'll get it
> flying, somehow.
>
> Bertie

Ummm yup, another pile of corroded aluminum that will be 100% replaced
by hand made new parts at a cost of 2.5x 10e6, then declared to be a
'restoration' and worshipped by the EAA... <yawn>

As far as the warning about 'hi-octane fuel', not to worry... It is
not possible to over estimate the stupidity of the public...


denny

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Denny > wrote in
:

> On Nov 15, 7:36 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> "BT" > wrote
>> :
>>
>> > mm... all that time in the water does not sound like "surviving"=
>>
>> Depends on the defintion applied of course. I wouldn't say they'll
>> get it flying, somehow.
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Ummm yup, another pile of corroded aluminum that will be 100% replaced
> by hand made new parts at a cost of 2.5x 10e6, then declared to be a
> 'restoration' and worshipped by the EAA... <yawn>
>

Kinda doubt it. It has to be too far gone for that. That one from Greenland
was one of about half a dozen and they chose to do just one of them.

> As far as the warning about 'hi-octane fuel', not to worry... It is
> not possible to over estimate the stupidity of the public...
>


True.


Bertie

[Martin X. Moleski, SJ]

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 05:15:37 -0800 (PST), Denny > wrote in
>:

>On Nov 15, 7:36 pm, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> "BT" > wrote :

>> > mm... all that time in the water does not sound like "surviving"=

>> Depends on the defintion applied of course. I wouldn't say they'll get it
>> flying, somehow.

>Ummm yup, another pile of corroded aluminum that will be 100% replaced
>by hand made new parts at a cost of 2.5x 10e6, then declared to be a
>'restoration' and worshipped by the EAA... <yawn>

I'm a dues-paying member of TIGHAR, so you may take what I say with
a grain of salt. Ric Gillespie and the organization are definitely
against "restoring" the plane to mint condition. The goal, I think,
is to recover the plane and preserve it as an archeological artifact:

http://tighar.org/

Marty (TIGHAR #2359)

[Gatt]

"Denny" > wrote in message news:1e026754-a05a-45c8-b53e-

> Ummm yup, another pile of corroded aluminum that will be 100% replaced
> by hand made new parts at a cost of 2.5x 10e6, then declared to be a
> 'restoration' and worshipped by the EAA... <yawn>

It's a P-38. If it's restored to -any- condition I'd have a hard time
yawning about it.

( This photo was taken while filming a P-38 documentary with Jeff Ethell. I
can't say for certain, but I'm nearly positive this is the photo he snapped
with my old 35mm. http://www.damnnearwiley.com/p38.jpg)

-c

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Gatt" > wrote in
:

>
> "Denny" > wrote in message
> news:1e026754-a05a-45c8-b53e-
>
>> Ummm yup, another pile of corroded aluminum that will be 100%
>> replaced by hand made new parts at a cost of 2.5x 10e6, then declared
>> to be a 'restoration' and worshipped by the EAA... <yawn>
>
> It's a P-38. If it's restored to -any- condition I'd have a hard time
> yawning about it.

Well, if the Brits have anything to do with it, they'll restore it , then
give it to some Hooray Henry named Lt. Commander Nigel Double-Barreled
(goes back to Norman times you know, hawr hawr) who will replant it at an
airshow, and with any luck he'll take out a row of vintage airplanes as
well.


Bertie

[george]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> AJ > wrote in
> :
>
> > Link to the NY Daily News story, with two photos:
> > http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/11/15/2007-11-15_us_wwii
> > _fighter_plane_found_on_coast_of_.html
> >
>
> Yes, apparently it's the oldest known surviving '38
>
No.
http://www.warbirdalley.com/p38.htm

[Gatt]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .

>> It's a P-38. If it's restored to -any- condition I'd have a hard time
>> yawning about it.
>
> Well, if the Brits have anything to do with it, they'll restore it , then
> give it to some Hooray Henry named Lt. Commander Nigel Double-Barreled
> (goes back to Norman times you know, hawr hawr) who will replant it at an
> airshow, and with any luck he'll take out a row of vintage airplanes as
> well.

Excellent rant. Is that in reference to Black Six?
-c

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Gatt" > wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>> It's a P-38. If it's restored to -any- condition I'd have a hard
>>> time yawning about it.
>>
>> Well, if the Brits have anything to do with it, they'll restore it ,
>> then give it to some Hooray Henry named Lt. Commander Nigel
>> Double-Barreled (goes back to Norman times you know, hawr hawr) who
>> will replant it at an airshow, and with any luck he'll take out a row
>> of vintage airplanes as well.
>
> Excellent rant. Is that in reference to Black Six?
> -c


For one. Some asshole also planted a -38 at Duxford around 1995 and
there's some other idiot ex Roya Navy commander who has crashed so many
he should be a given the Pour le Merite.
I saw the P-38 guy who crashed (dished out of a roll) about a year
before hs accident. He broke every rule in the book and nobody seemed to
care. He was doing aileron rolls pointed straight at the crowd (which
looked absolutely brilliant, I'll admit) and was looping the thing at
insanely low altitudes and using the most awkward and dangerous looking
"cranking" during the last quarter to trim the grass during the exit.
Unfortuantely it was only a matter of time.

Then there was the guy who crashed the last flying Mosquito doing
wingovers at a show in Manchester, I think, the idiot who split-essed
into the ground in a Hurricane a few months ago (that one's on you Tube,
what was he thinking?), the Aircobra a couple of years ago and on and
on..
Excuse me Dudley, if any of these guys were your friends, but with this
many stupid avoidable accidents in such a small country (with an
admittedly large warbird scene) something has got to be wrong.



Bertie

[Orval Fairbairn]

In article >,
Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:

> "Gatt" > wrote in
> :
>
> >
> > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> > .. .
> >
> >>> It's a P-38. If it's restored to -any- condition I'd have a hard
> >>> time yawning about it.
> >>
> >> Well, if the Brits have anything to do with it, they'll restore it ,
> >> then give it to some Hooray Henry named Lt. Commander Nigel
> >> Double-Barreled (goes back to Norman times you know, hawr hawr) who
> >> will replant it at an airshow, and with any luck he'll take out a row
> >> of vintage airplanes as well.
> >
> > Excellent rant. Is that in reference to Black Six?
> > -c
>
>
> For one. Some asshole also planted a -38 at Duxford around 1995 and
> there's some other idiot ex Roya Navy commander who has crashed so many
> he should be a given the Pour le Merite.
> I saw the P-38 guy who crashed (dished out of a roll) about a year
> before hs accident. He broke every rule in the book and nobody seemed to
> care. He was doing aileron rolls pointed straight at the crowd (which
> looked absolutely brilliant, I'll admit) and was looping the thing at
> insanely low altitudes and using the most awkward and dangerous looking
> "cranking" during the last quarter to trim the grass during the exit.
> Unfortuantely it was only a matter of time.
>
> Then there was the guy who crashed the last flying Mosquito doing
> wingovers at a show in Manchester, I think, the idiot who split-essed
> into the ground in a Hurricane a few months ago (that one's on you Tube,
> what was he thinking?), the Aircobra a couple of years ago and on and
> on..
> Excuse me Dudley, if any of these guys were your friends, but with this
> many stupid avoidable accidents in such a small country (with an
> admittedly large warbird scene) something has got to be wrong.
>

I would think that part of the problem is the insanely high cost of fuel
in the UK -- coupled with oppressive flying restrictions, which inhibit
proficiency.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Orval Fairbairn > wrote in
:

> In article >,
> Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>
>> "Gatt" > wrote in
>> :
>>
>> >
>> > "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> > .. .
>> >
>> >>> It's a P-38. If it's restored to -any- condition I'd have a hard
>> >>> time yawning about it.
>> >>
>> >> Well, if the Brits have anything to do with it, they'll restore it
>> >> , then give it to some Hooray Henry named Lt. Commander Nigel
>> >> Double-Barreled (goes back to Norman times you know, hawr hawr)
>> >> who will replant it at an airshow, and with any luck he'll take
>> >> out a row of vintage airplanes as well.
>> >
>> > Excellent rant. Is that in reference to Black Six?
>> > -c
>>
>>
>> For one. Some asshole also planted a -38 at Duxford around 1995 and
>> there's some other idiot ex Roya Navy commander who has crashed so
>> many he should be a given the Pour le Merite.
>> I saw the P-38 guy who crashed (dished out of a roll) about a year
>> before hs accident. He broke every rule in the book and nobody seemed
>> to care. He was doing aileron rolls pointed straight at the crowd
>> (which looked absolutely brilliant, I'll admit) and was looping the
>> thing at insanely low altitudes and using the most awkward and
>> dangerous looking "cranking" during the last quarter to trim the
>> grass during the exit. Unfortuantely it was only a matter of time.
>>
>> Then there was the guy who crashed the last flying Mosquito doing
>> wingovers at a show in Manchester, I think, the idiot who split-essed
>> into the ground in a Hurricane a few months ago (that one's on you
>> Tube, what was he thinking?), the Aircobra a couple of years ago and
>> on and on..
>> Excuse me Dudley, if any of these guys were your friends, but with
>> this many stupid avoidable accidents in such a small country (with an
>> admittedly large warbird scene) something has got to be wrong.
>>
>
> I would think that part of the problem is the insanely high cost of
> fuel in the UK -- coupled with oppressive flying restrictions, which
> inhibit proficiency.


Yeah, I think you're probably right.


Bertie
>