Sears tools

[Stuart & Kathryn Fields]

I recently purchased the Sears "Professional" Lithium batteried driver
drills. I purchased two because I was in the process of erecting a metal
building. The batteries and charger worked good but the keyless chuck on
both drills exhibit what I call "Auto Loosen". I have several other keyless
chucks in my shop and none of these exhibit the same characteristics. I
called Sears Customer Service to complain and they told me to visit my local
Sears dealer. The local Sears dealer told me to call Customer Service.
Whoa!! I've been a victim of that before. I will now look for my tool
requirements somewhere else.

Stu Fields

[Maxwell]

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message
.. .
>I recently purchased the Sears "Professional" Lithium batteried driver
>drills. I purchased two because I was in the process of erecting a metal
>building. The batteries and charger worked good but the keyless chuck on
>both drills exhibit what I call "Auto Loosen". I have several other
>keyless chucks in my shop and none of these exhibit the same
>characteristics. I called Sears Customer Service to complain and they told
>me to visit my local Sears dealer. The local Sears dealer told me to call
>Customer Service. Whoa!! I've been a victim of that before. I will now
>look for my tool requirements somewhere else.
>

I bought a 2 speed 18V Ryobi, three years ago, and it worked out so well I
bought a second one just for the heck of it the next year. They are now 2
and 3 years old, and are used in my business almost daily. Lost a couple of
batteries over the period, but the drills, chucks and chargers couldn't be
better.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message
.. .
>I recently purchased the Sears "Professional" Lithium batteried driver
>drills. I purchased two because I was in the process of erecting a metal
>building. The batteries and charger worked good but the keyless chuck on
>both drills exhibit what I call "Auto Loosen". I have several other
>keyless chucks in my shop and none of these exhibit the same
>characteristics. I called Sears Customer Service to complain and they told
>me to visit my local Sears dealer. The local Sears dealer told me to call
>Customer Service. Whoa!! I've been a victim of that before. I will now
>look for my tool requirements somewhere else.

Hand tools are generally average or better quality.

Sears gives its tool manufacturing (and everything else they sell) to the
lowest bidder that meets the specs.

The general rule for sears power tools, is to stay away from them.
Exceptions are if you look to see who made the item.

Shoot, I have an Emerson riding lawn mower. You can look up the prefix of
the sears item number, to see who made it. (whatever it happens to be)
<http://www.owwm.com/Craftsman/Manufacturers.asp>
--
Jim in NC

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Maxwell wrote:

> I bought a 2 speed 18V Ryobi,

So did I and I couldn't be happier with it.

[IO540]

On Fri, 16 Nov 2007 08:15:10 -0800, "Stuart & Kathryn Fields"
> wrote:

>I recently purchased the Sears "Professional" Lithium batteried driver
>drills. I purchased two because I was in the process of erecting a metal
>building. The batteries and charger worked good but the keyless chuck on
>both drills exhibit what I call "Auto Loosen". I have several other keyless
>chucks in my shop and none of these exhibit the same characteristics. I
>called Sears Customer Service to complain and they told me to visit my local
>Sears dealer. The local Sears dealer told me to call Customer Service.
>Whoa!! I've been a victim of that before. I will now look for my tool
>requirements somewhere else.
>
>Stu Fields
>

I've been replacing all those hand tighten chucks with the old keyed
type. I just can't get the hand tighten type tight enough, and the
chuck will slip, spinning around with the drill bit not moving. A new
chuck is pretty cheap, but getting the original one off can be a bitch
on some drills.

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "EC" == Ernest Christley > writes:

EC> I won't be buying a DeWalt again. They seem to have some
EC> management that has decided to cash in on their quality name.

That's a shame. I have a DeWalt cordless drill from a few years ago,
still works fine. But I'm noticing more and more that formerly
good-quality names, like Craftsmen, are using low-bid stuff from Asia
that is mediocre at best.

Ultimately it's us who drive this. We're infatuated with cheap and
retailers peddle it to us. Quality matters to only a few.
--
Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all
other countries because you were born in it.
~ George Bernard Shaw

[Bill Daniels]

"Stuart & Kathryn Fields" > wrote in message
.. .
>I recently purchased the Sears "Professional" Lithium batteried driver
>drills. I purchased two because I was in the process of erecting a metal
>building. The batteries and charger worked good but the keyless chuck on
>both drills exhibit what I call "Auto Loosen". I have several other
>keyless chucks in my shop and none of these exhibit the same
>characteristics. I called Sears Customer Service to complain and they told
>me to visit my local Sears dealer. The local Sears dealer told me to call
>Customer Service. Whoa!! I've been a victim of that before. I will now
>look for my tool requirements somewhere else.
>
> Stu Fields
A few years ago I bought a new 21mm open end wrench from Sears for a special
project. The wrench promptly broke so I took it back for a new one - it
broke too. When I returned the second one, I got the floor manager to talk
to me. At the wrench counter I fitted two wrenches together and easily
broke one of them. The manager didn't look happy with me so he tried it and
broke one.

I was prepared to stand at the wrench counter and break wrenches until I got
my money back but it didn't come to that.

I used to say don't buy cheap tools unless you intended to destroy them in
one project. Now you can't even do that.

Bill Daniels

[Ron Natalie]

Ernest Christley wrote:

> I won't be buying a DeWalt again. They seem to have some management
> that has decided to cash in on their quality name.

That's a shame. Nearly all of my tools now are from the 18V
Dewalt line to include: Hammer Drill, Regular Drill (which is
used to drive the VTHRUST tow bar in th hangar), Right Angle
Drill, Rotozip-like thing, circular saw, recip saw, jig saw,
finish nailer, grinder, flash light, and vacuum cleaner.
I think the only thing I don't have in the line is the
impact wrench. Haven't had a problem. I even got satisfaction
out of both Lowes and Dewalt after they initially denied
my rebate on the six-tool set.

I've had no problem with the XRP batteries.

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote
>
> That's a shame. Nearly all of my tools now are from the 18V
> Dewalt line to include:
> I've had no problem with the XRP batteries.

One big difference in how long they last, is how you treat your batteries.

One of the biggest battery killers is running them until they won't hardly
turn the tool motor without any load on it. You should stop using the
battery, and get a fresh one immediately after the RPM starts to drop
noticeably.

If you run your battery real hard, let it cool for at least 30 minutes, and
an hour or two is better, before you charge it. After it is fully charged,
it should be allowed to cool down a bit before you use it again.

All this requires is enough batteries to do your job with some resting time
between cycles. An extra couple batteries go a long way towards making all
of them last much longer.

Also, some of the Dewalt chargers come with a button on them, that you push
to run them through several cycles of discharge and recharge, to condition
them. I think that helps them out a bit, but it should not be over used.
All batteries, and it does not matter which brand, have a limited number of
cycles in them, before they start to go bad.

Another thing I do, is to take the pack apart when it goes bad, and right
after charging, read each individual cell's voltage. It will be very
apparent that a few are totally zapped. If you have at least two bad packs,
you can remove the bad cells from one, borrow cells from the other, and have
a good battery pack, for a while, at least.
--
Jim in NC

[Scott[_1_]]

Are you trying to make a statement about your brother in law? ;)

Ernest Christley wrote:
> Morgans wrote:

>
> I baby my batteries with the tenderest of loving care. I made two
> battery packs last 10 years, using it for nearly everything, and the
> batteries were still good enough to pass on to a brother-in-law.

--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Ernest Christley" > wrote

> I baby my batteries with the tenderest of loving care. I made two battery
> packs last 10 years, using it for nearly everything, and the batteries
> were still good enough to pass on to a brother-in-law.
>
> The new set was shot in six months. From Ron's experience, it may be that
> DeWalt has de-emphasized their 9V line.

Could be; I know they want your to buy the 16 volt ones, and now, the 24
volt ones.

It could be that they are pushing a 9 volt pack too hard during charging.
The same charger is used for 9.6 to 18 volt, I know for a fact. Perhaps
that is too many volts to feed into the 9.6 batteries.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Ernest Christley" > wrote

> Dang-it! I bet you're right.
>
> I noticed the batteries coming out of the new charger a lot warmer than
> the came out of the old one. I bet I would still have decent batteries if
> I had kept the old charger.

Perhaps you could stick a voltage regulator chip into the charger, or
experiment to find a resistor that would drop the voltage to a reasonable
level.
--
Jim in NC

[Peter Dohm]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "Ernest Christley" > wrote
>
>> Dang-it! I bet you're right.
>>
>> I noticed the batteries coming out of the new charger a lot warmer than
>> the came out of the old one. I bet I would still have decent batteries
>> if I had kept the old charger.
>
> Perhaps you could stick a voltage regulator chip into the charger, or
> experiment to find a resistor that would drop the voltage to a reasonable
> level.
> --
> Jim in NC
>
The voltage regulator is the only correct solution, although I don't recall
the proper shut-off voltage. Ideally, the charger should provide a fairly
quick charging current and then shut off, or else drop to a couple of
milliamps when the fully charged voltage is reached.

IIRC, if the batteries are to last, the correct voltage varies with
temperature and should be controlled within about 0.1 volt. I don't recall
the correct voltage for a full charge, but 9.6 volts sounds like a stack of
8 nicad cells; so the figure of 11.6 volts sounds possible for some fairly
normal temperatures. However, that is a distant and somewhat foggy
memory--so it is only usefull as a starting point to search for the correct
numbers.

I hope this helps.

Peter

[Scott[_1_]]

Um...last time I checked, Nicad batteries were charged with a constant
current source, not a constant voltage soure. You can use a regulator
IC with a properly connected resistor to make a constant current source.

Scott


Peter Dohm wrote:
> "Morgans" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>"Ernest Christley" > wrote
>>
>>
>>>Dang-it! I bet you're right.
>>>
>>>I noticed the batteries coming out of the new charger a lot warmer than
>>>the came out of the old one. I bet I would still have decent batteries
>>>if I had kept the old charger.
>>
>>Perhaps you could stick a voltage regulator chip into the charger, or
>>experiment to find a resistor that would drop the voltage to a reasonable
>>level.
>>--
>>Jim in NC
>>
>
> The voltage regulator is the only correct solution, although I don't recall
> the proper shut-off voltage. Ideally, the charger should provide a fairly
> quick charging current and then shut off, or else drop to a couple of
> milliamps when the fully charged voltage is reached.
>
> IIRC, if the batteries are to last, the correct voltage varies with
> temperature and should be controlled within about 0.1 volt. I don't recall
> the correct voltage for a full charge, but 9.6 volts sounds like a stack of
> 8 nicad cells; so the figure of 11.6 volts sounds possible for some fairly
> normal temperatures. However, that is a distant and somewhat foggy
> memory--so it is only usefull as a starting point to search for the correct
> numbers.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Peter
>
>
>

--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

[Ron Natalie]

Scott wrote:
> Um...last time I checked, Nicad batteries were charged with a constant
> current source, not a constant voltage soure. You can use a regulator
> IC with a properly connected resistor to make a constant current source.
>
Most of the current issue batteries (certianly the XRP Dewalts) are
NOT NiCad. Mine are LiIon.

Only the dumbest-ass slow nicad chargers were simple constant current
chargers. The rapid chargers all used the pack temperature to regulate
how much current they put in them.

[Ron Natalie]

Scott wrote:
> Um...last time I checked, Nicad batteries were charged with a constant
> current source, not a constant voltage soure. You can use a regulator
> IC with a properly connected resistor to make a constant current source.
>
Most of the current issue batteries (certianly the XRP Dewalts) are
NOT NiCad. Mine are LiIon.

Only the dumbest-ass slow nicad chargers were simple constant current
chargers. The rapid chargers all used the pack temperature to regulate
how much current they put in them.

[Peter Dohm]

After I wrote that, which is obviously the wrong sequence, I did a quick
search and found that a constant current plus voltage/temperature sensing
was preferred. My recollection of the fully charged voltage was also much
too high!

Peter


"Scott" > wrote in message
.. .
> Um...last time I checked, Nicad batteries were charged with a constant
> current source, not a constant voltage soure. You can use a regulator IC
> with a properly connected resistor to make a constant current source.
>
> Scott
>
>
> Peter Dohm wrote:
>> "Morgans" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>
>>>"Ernest Christley" > wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Dang-it! I bet you're right.
>>>>
>>>>I noticed the batteries coming out of the new charger a lot warmer than
>>>>the came out of the old one. I bet I would still have decent batteries
>>>>if I had kept the old charger.
>>>
>>>Perhaps you could stick a voltage regulator chip into the charger, or
>>>experiment to find a resistor that would drop the voltage to a reasonable
>>>level.
>>>--
>>>Jim in NC
>>>
>>
>> The voltage regulator is the only correct solution, although I don't
>> recall the proper shut-off voltage. Ideally, the charger should provide
>> a fairly quick charging current and then shut off, or else drop to a
>> couple of milliamps when the fully charged voltage is reached.
>>
>> IIRC, if the batteries are to last, the correct voltage varies with
>> temperature and should be controlled within about 0.1 volt. I don't
>> recall the correct voltage for a full charge, but 9.6 volts sounds like a
>> stack of 8 nicad cells; so the figure of 11.6 volts sounds possible for
>> some fairly normal temperatures. However, that is a distant and somewhat
>> foggy memory--so it is only usefull as a starting point to search for the
>> correct numbers.
>>
>> I hope this helps.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Scott
> http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
> Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
> Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

[Peter Dohm]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote in message
...
> Scott wrote:
>> Um...last time I checked, Nicad batteries were charged with a constant
>> current source, not a constant voltage soure. You can use a regulator IC
>> with a properly connected resistor to make a constant current source.
>>
> Most of the current issue batteries (certianly the XRP Dewalts) are
> NOT NiCad. Mine are LiIon.
>
> Only the dumbest-ass slow nicad chargers were simple constant current
> chargers. The rapid chargers all used the pack temperature to regulate
> how much current they put in them.

That's actually a couple of good points, and there should be some
information on the battery packs stating what they are.

A google search leads to a lot of information about each of the battery
types, along with the obvious conclusion that there are a lot of
questionable chargers out there for each of the types.

By the way, my old AEG screwdriver (also sold as Milwaukee) uses a 2 cell
NiCad battery pack--which explains why time alone will destroy the batteries
even though the charger appears to be pretty good.

Anyway, thanks for a good reminder to REALLY examine the tool, the battery
and charger, and the litterature when buying tools in the future.

Peter

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Ron Natalie" > wrote

> Most of the current issue batteries (certianly the XRP Dewalts) are
> NOT NiCad. Mine are LiIon.
>
> Only the dumbest-ass slow nicad chargers were simple constant current
> chargers. The rapid chargers all used the pack temperature to regulate
> how much current they put in them.

I think most of the newer non LiIon Dewalt batteries are nickel metal
hydride. Only a couple years ago, they were still NiCads.

Dewalt chargers for non LiIon batteries do not sense temperature. They have
only a positive and negative lead, and there is nothing in the charger to
sense temperature externally, as if that would do much good, anyway.

They do use peak detecting charge technology, though.
--
Jim in NC

[Sully]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:33:26 -0500, "Morgans"
> wrote:

>
>"Ron Natalie" > wrote
>>
>> That's a shame. Nearly all of my tools now are from the 18V
>> Dewalt line to include:
>> I've had no problem with the XRP batteries.
>
>One big difference in how long they last, is how you treat your batteries.
>
>One of the biggest battery killers is running them until they won't hardly
>turn the tool motor without any load on it. You should stop using the
>battery, and get a fresh one immediately after the RPM starts to drop
>noticeably.
>
>If you run your battery real hard, let it cool for at least 30 minutes, and
>an hour or two is better, before you charge it. After it is fully charged,
>it should be allowed to cool down a bit before you use it again.
>
>All this requires is enough batteries to do your job with some resting time
>between cycles. An extra couple batteries go a long way towards making all
>of them last much longer.
>
>Also, some of the Dewalt chargers come with a button on them, that you push
>to run them through several cycles of discharge and recharge, to condition
>them. I think that helps them out a bit, but it should not be over used.
>All batteries, and it does not matter which brand, have a limited number of
>cycles in them, before they start to go bad.
>
>Another thing I do, is to take the pack apart when it goes bad, and right
>after charging, read each individual cell's voltage. It will be very
>apparent that a few are totally zapped. If you have at least two bad packs,
>you can remove the bad cells from one, borrow cells from the other, and have
>a good battery pack, for a while, at least.

There is a battery shop in my area that you can take the packs too and
they will replace the cells for you. I believe it was $75 the last
time I priced having the cells replaced for an 18V battery pack and
that was for the higher Miliamp batteries. The owner said that he
gets a lot of contractors in to have the cells replaced with the
higher miliamp cells and they constantly brag about how much better
they are than the new ones off the shelf.

[Dave[_5_]]

On Nov 19, 1:41 pm, Sully > wrote:
> On Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:33:26 -0500, "Morgans"
>
>
>
>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >"Ron Natalie" > wrote
>
> >> That's a shame. Nearly all of my tools now are from the 18V
> >> Dewalt line to include:
> >> I've had no problem with the XRP batteries.
>
> >One big difference in how long they last, is how you treat your batteries.
>
> >One of the biggest battery killers is running them until they won't hardly
> >turn the tool motor without any load on it. You should stop using the
> >battery, and get a fresh one immediately after the RPM starts to drop
> >noticeably.
>
> >If you run your battery real hard, let it cool for at least 30 minutes, and
> >an hour or two is better, before you charge it. After it is fully charged,
> >it should be allowed to cool down a bit before you use it again.
>
> >All this requires is enough batteries to do your job with some resting time
> >between cycles. An extra couple batteries go a long way towards making all
> >of them last much longer.
>
> >Also, some of the Dewalt chargers come with a button on them, that you push
> >to run them through several cycles of discharge and recharge, to condition
> >them. I think that helps them out a bit, but it should not be over used.
> >All batteries, and it does not matter which brand, have a limited number of
> >cycles in them, before they start to go bad.
>
> >Another thing I do, is to take the pack apart when it goes bad, and right
> >after charging, read each individual cell's voltage. It will be very
> >apparent that a few are totally zapped. If you have at least two bad packs,
> >you can remove the bad cells from one, borrow cells from the other, and have
> >a good battery pack, for a while, at least.
>
> There is a battery shop in my area that you can take the packs too and
> they will replace the cells for you. I believe it was $75 the last
> time I priced having the cells replaced for an 18V battery pack and
> that was for the higher Miliamp batteries. The owner said that he
> gets a lot of contractors in to have the cells replaced with the
> higher miliamp cells and they constantly brag about how much better
> they are than the new ones off the shelf.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Batteries Plus is a chain of shops that offers pack rebuilding (in
addition to having in stock just about anything you would want in the
way of batteries). Follow this link to locate a store near you:http://
www.batteriesplus.com/?CJPID=1457557

David Johnson

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Dave wrote:
>
>
> Batteries Plus is a chain of shops that offers pack rebuilding (in
> addition to having in stock just about anything you would want in the
> way of batteries). Follow this link to locate a store near you:http://
> www.batteriesplus.com/?CJPID=1457557
>
> David Johnson

Therdo seem to have alot of batteries, but not the 9.6v Ryobi.
I'm babying this one for as long as ot lasts.
2 years old now.

Richard

[Morgans[_2_]]

"cavelamb himself" > wrote

> Therdo seem to have alot of batteries, but not the 9.6v Ryobi.
> I'm babying this one for as long as ot lasts.
> 2 years old now.

When it finally caves in, get out your Dremmel with a cutoff wheel, and cut
that pack open, and replace the cells with some good name cells, and then
seal the pack up with some JB Weld. Good as new. I have done several
surgeries like that, in the past. Works well.
--
Jim in NC

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Morgans wrote:

> "cavelamb himself" > wrote
>
>
>>Therdo seem to have alot of batteries, but not the 9.6v Ryobi.
>>I'm babying this one for as long as ot lasts.
>>2 years old now.
>
>
> When it finally caves in, get out your Dremmel with a cutoff wheel, and cut
> that pack open, and replace the cells with some good name cells, and then
> seal the pack up with some JB Weld. Good as new. I have done several
> surgeries like that, in the past. Works well.


Actually, I have a dead "spare".
But I haven't opened t yet.

It is held together with funny little Torx?
Star type screws with a tit in the middle.

I need to get a tool that fits and drill out the center.

And reassemble with normal phillips screws.

Might just give that a try.
It would sure be nice to have a spare again.

Richard

[Morgans[_2_]]

"cavelamb himself" > wrote

> Actually, I have a dead "spare".
> But I haven't opened t yet.
>
> It is held together with funny little Torx?
> Star type screws with a tit in the middle.
>
> I need to get a tool that fits and drill out the center.
>
> And reassemble with normal phillips screws.
>
> Might just give that a try.
> It would sure be nice to have a spare again.

You are in luck! You don't have to cut into it, then.

Those screws are called security screws, or safety screws, or something like
that.

The bits to fit those are available at Lowe's Lumber, and I suspect at other
big box stores, too.

I got them in the small bit size that fits in a 1/4" hex drive, with several
in a pack, but they were pretty cheap.

EVERY do-it-yourself-er worth there salt HAS to have a full set of those
things!

NOBODY is going to put a "closed-no entry" sign on a do-dad of mine! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Scott[_5_]]

On Mon, 19 Nov 2007 19:22:31 -0600, in rec.aviation.homebuilt, cavelamb
himself > wrote:

>Actually, I have a dead "spare".
>But I haven't opened t yet.
>
>It is held together with funny little Torx?
>Star type screws with a tit in the middle.
>
>I need to get a tool that fits and drill out the center.

See if it's shown here: http://www.lara.com/reviews/screwtypes.htm

Drivers for most of these are not difficult to buy. NAPA auto parts will
sell you a set of bits for security Torx screws for maybe $15 or so.

-Scott

[Peter Dohm]

"Morgans" > wrote in message
...
>
> "cavelamb himself" > wrote
>
>> Actually, I have a dead "spare".
>> But I haven't opened t yet.
>>
>> It is held together with funny little Torx?
>> Star type screws with a tit in the middle.
>>
>> I need to get a tool that fits and drill out the center.
>>
>> And reassemble with normal phillips screws.
>>
>> Might just give that a try.
>> It would sure be nice to have a spare again.
>
> You are in luck! You don't have to cut into it, then.
>
> Those screws are called security screws, or safety screws, or something
> like that.
>
> The bits to fit those are available at Lowe's Lumber, and I suspect at
> other big box stores, too.
>
> I got them in the small bit size that fits in a 1/4" hex drive, with
> several in a pack, but they were pretty cheap.
>
> EVERY do-it-yourself-er worth there salt HAS to have a full set of those
> things!
>
> NOBODY is going to put a "closed-no entry" sign on a do-dad of mine! <g>
> --
> Jim in NC
>
I can not speak to the Lowes and Home Depot question, as I have never looked
for them there. However, good old Jensen Tools lives on at Stanley Supply &
Services with a web site at http://www.stanleysupplyservices.com/ and
"Tamper-Torx" sets are still in the catalog. Not dirt cheap, but I was
always pleased with everything I bought from Jensen.

Snap-On has them as well, at a price: YEEEOOOWWW !!!

Peter

[Maxwell]

"Sully" > wrote in message
...
>>
>
> There is a battery shop in my area that you can take the packs too and
> they will replace the cells for you. I believe it was $75 the last
> time I priced having the cells replaced for an 18V battery pack and
> that was for the higher Miliamp batteries. The owner said that he
> gets a lot of contractors in to have the cells replaced with the
> higher miliamp cells and they constantly brag about how much better
> they are than the new ones off the shelf.

I bought a couple of new 18V replacement batteries for my Ryobis for just
$19 at Home Depot.

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Morgans wrote:

> "cavelamb himself" > wrote
>
>
>>Actually, I have a dead "spare".
>>But I haven't opened t yet.
>>
>>It is held together with funny little Torx?
>>Star type screws with a tit in the middle.
>>
>>I need to get a tool that fits and drill out the center.
>>
>>And reassemble with normal phillips screws.
>>
>>Might just give that a try.
>>It would sure be nice to have a spare again.
>
>
> You are in luck! You don't have to cut into it, then.
>
> Those screws are called security screws, or safety screws, or something like
> that.
>
> The bits to fit those are available at Lowe's Lumber, and I suspect at other
> big box stores, too.
>
> I got them in the small bit size that fits in a 1/4" hex drive, with several
> in a pack, but they were pretty cheap.
>
> EVERY do-it-yourself-er worth there salt HAS to have a full set of those
> things!
>
> NOBODY is going to put a "closed-no entry" sign on a do-dad of mine! <g>


Ok, I opened tha silly thing.

No idea what these cells are.
7/8" dia X almost 1-3/4" long
8 of 'em to make 9.6 volts for 1.2 volts each

They are marked DE38NF and NiCad

Pic at:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/proof.htm#batts

Any clues?


Richard

[Scott[_1_]]

Could they be the sub-C size as quoted below from the Batteries America
website? (Says they are .91" in diameter and 1.69" in length.

KR-1300SC Sub C 1.2V 1300 mAh .910" 1.690"
1.56 $2.75 ea.BUY

http://www.batteriesamerica.com/newpage3.htm

Scott


cavelamb himself wrote:
> Morgans wrote:
>
>> "cavelamb himself" > wrote
>>
>>
>>> Actually, I have a dead "spare".
>>> But I haven't opened t yet.
>>>
>>> It is held together with funny little Torx?
>>> Star type screws with a tit in the middle.
>>>
>>> I need to get a tool that fits and drill out the center.
>>>
>>> And reassemble with normal phillips screws.
>>>
>>> Might just give that a try.
>>> It would sure be nice to have a spare again.
>>
>>
>>
>> You are in luck! You don't have to cut into it, then.
>>
>> Those screws are called security screws, or safety screws, or
>> something like that.
>>
>> The bits to fit those are available at Lowe's Lumber, and I suspect at
>> other big box stores, too.
>>
>> I got them in the small bit size that fits in a 1/4" hex drive, with
>> several in a pack, but they were pretty cheap.
>>
>> EVERY do-it-yourself-er worth there salt HAS to have a full set of
>> those things!
>>
>> NOBODY is going to put a "closed-no entry" sign on a do-dad of mine! <g>
>
>
>
> Ok, I opened tha silly thing.
>
> No idea what these cells are.
> 7/8" dia X almost 1-3/4" long
> 8 of 'em to make 9.6 volts for 1.2 volts each
>
> They are marked DE38NF and NiCad
>
> Pic at:
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/proof.htm#batts
>
> Any clues?
>
>
> Richard

--
Scott
http://corbenflyer.tripod.com/
Gotta Fly or Gonna Die
Building RV-4 (Super Slow Build Version)

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Scott wrote:

> Could they be the sub-C size as quoted below from the Batteries America
> website? (Says they are .91" in diameter and 1.69" in length.
>
> KR-1300SC Sub C 1.2V 1300 mAh .910"
> 1.690" 1.56 $2.75 ea.BUY
>
> http://www.batteriesamerica.com/newpage3.htm
>
> Scott
>

That looks about right.
And that also looks like a very good price.

But look what else I found! (among other things...)

http://www.batterybank.net/digital/powertools/

Richard

[Morgans[_2_]]

"cavelamb himself" > wrote

> That looks about right.
> And that also looks like a very good price.
>
> But look what else I found! (among other things...)
>
> http://www.batterybank.net/digital/powertools/

Yep.

You could go the route of replacing all of the cells with nickel metal
hydride cells and using your own case, if you don't mind the work, and save
yourself some money. That is the route I would go, personally.

The nearly double capacity is nice to have. You can shop around the web for
more battery sellers, for the best prices. There are tons of them out
there, with some pretty good competition. While you're at it, order enough
cells to do both packs, and you will get some more discount in price, from
some of the places.

Sometimes, you can find a place (not necessarily web places) that is selling
battery packs for video recorders, or power tools that is getting rid of
some stock for really cheap- cheaper than the price of individual cells.

While you are ordering batteries, I'll bet you have a dust buster or two
sitting around with dead batteries in it. Gather them all up, and see how
many you need, all together. Get your brother in law to see how many he
needs to buy, an order them all at the same time, while you are at it. Make
sure he understands he replaces his own, though! You might have enough to
really get a good discount, by now. And a lot more work, too!
--
Jim in NC

[Anthony W]

Morgans wrote:
> You could go the route of replacing all of the cells with nickel metal
> hydride cells and using your own case, if you don't mind the work, and save
> yourself some money. That is the route I would go, personally.
>
> The nearly double capacity is nice to have. You can shop around the web for
> more battery sellers, for the best prices. There are tons of them out
> there, with some pretty good competition. While you're at it, order enough
> cells to do both packs, and you will get some more discount in price, from
> some of the places.
>
> Sometimes, you can find a place (not necessarily web places) that is selling
> battery packs for video recorders, or power tools that is getting rid of
> some stock for really cheap- cheaper than the price of individual cells.
>
> While you are ordering batteries, I'll bet you have a dust buster or two
> sitting around with dead batteries in it. Gather them all up, and see how
> many you need, all together. Get your brother in law to see how many he
> needs to buy, an order them all at the same time, while you are at it. Make
> sure he understands he replaces his own, though! You might have enough to
> really get a good discount, by now. And a lot more work, too!

Interesting stuff. A few years back I bought a cheap harbor freight 12v
cordless drill with an extra battery pack. Surprisingly the drill was
pretty good quality for the money but the battery packs were shot in a
week. Now the drill is still sitting around here somewhere and pretty
much useless. I was thinking about adding a long cord and a cigarette
lighter adapter so the thing could be used out and about rather than
tossing it. I'm considering fixing it now.

Tony

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Morgans wrote:
> "cavelamb himself" > wrote
>
>
>>That looks about right.
>>And that also looks like a very good price.
>>
>>But look what else I found! (among other things...)
>>
>>http://www.batterybank.net/digital/powertools/
>
>
> Yep.
>
> You could go the route of replacing all of the cells with nickel metal
> hydride cells and using your own case, if you don't mind the work, and save
> yourself some money. That is the route I would go, personally.
>
> The nearly double capacity is nice to have. You can shop around the web for
> more battery sellers, for the best prices. There are tons of them out
> there, with some pretty good competition. While you're at it, order enough
> cells to do both packs, and you will get some more discount in price, from
> some of the places.
>
> Sometimes, you can find a place (not necessarily web places) that is selling
> battery packs for video recorders, or power tools that is getting rid of
> some stock for really cheap- cheaper than the price of individual cells.
>
> While you are ordering batteries, I'll bet you have a dust buster or two
> sitting around with dead batteries in it. Gather them all up, and see how
> many you need, all together. Get your brother in law to see how many he
> needs to buy, an order them all at the same time, while you are at it. Make
> sure he understands he replaces his own, though! You might have enough to
> really get a good discount, by now. And a lot more work, too!


Well, there is also the charger to consider.

It was designed for NiCds of a certain size.
What would new technology higher capacity batteries do to the charger?

Richard

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Anthony W" <> wrote

> Interesting stuff. A few years back I bought a cheap harbor freight 12v
> cordless drill with an extra battery pack. Surprisingly the drill was
> pretty good quality for the money but the battery packs were shot in a
> week. Now the drill is still sitting around here somewhere and pretty
> much useless. I was thinking about adding a long cord and a cigarette
> lighter adapter so the thing could be used out and about rather than
> tossing it. I'm considering fixing it now.

Two things to consider, here.

Cheap batteries, like you said. Probably very small capacity, too. Replace
them with the largest capacity batteries that will fit, if you go that
route.

Next, is that the charger is a cheap, no brain charger, and will happily
over charge your batteries, and charge your new battery to death.

If you don't have a smart, peak detecting charger from another drill or
power tool that you can rig a couple wires with alligator clips to, or slide
terminals (whatever will work the best with your cheap drill pack) you
should figure out what else you could do about charging.

If you have enough stuff you want to charge properly, you could get a remote
control car or airplane battery charger (a field charger that runs off of 12
volts is probably your cheapest good option) and charge all of your assorted
stuff with that. You know you are getting full charges, and not over
charges. You would have to make the call on whether it is worth spending a
fair amount of money on something like that.

Another fairly inexpensive option is to use the charger that came with it,
but add some "options" to it.

With the drill pack drained, put a volt meter in line, and check how many
milliamps the charger is putting out. As it is about half charged, and then
90% charged, read the milliamps again. That will give you some idea of how
much the charger is putting out on average.

Get yourself a 12 hour wind up timer switch, and make up a timed outlet to
plug your cheap charger into. You should then be able to make an educated
guess at how long it needs to charge, depending on how much you drained the
battery. You will need to put about 10% extra charge (when charging a full
charge time; pro-rate shorter times accordingly) into the battery, based on
straight capacity and charger output.

Note that this type of thing is not the best way to do things, but better
than killing new batteries with over charges. If you have a smart charger
around, adapt it to charge all of your stuff with dumb chargers.

Hope that is food for though. I need to rig up a new pack and alternate
charge method for a cheap drill, myself. It was so cheap I couldn't pass it
up! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

"cavelamb himself" > wrote

> It was designed for NiCds of a certain size.
> What would new technology higher capacity batteries do to the charger?

I have never seen a cheap charger that would hurt itself by trying to put
out more charge to a big pack. They just sit there and put out the maximum
they are rated for, for as long as you leave them plugged in.

Another note on that; don't trust the specs on the charger, as I have seen
chargers that would put out over 50% more than what they said they would put
out, and a few that put out significantly less.

They only thing you need to do when charging with a smaller charger than is
ideal, is to charge for a longer period of time.

If you have a 120 milliamp output charger (and that is what it puts out) and
you have a fully drained 1200 milliamp hour battery, it needs to charge for
11 hours. You'all have to do the math for your specific situation.

As I posted in another reply in this thread, you should definitely have some
type of system to turn the damn charger off, or it _will_ kill your new pack
by over charging.

I have also seen people plug dumb chargers into weekly timers after they are
charged to give it a bump once a week, to keep up with the self discharge
characteristics of the battery.
--
Jim in NC

[cavelamb himself[_4_]]

Morgans wrote:
> "Anthony W" <> wrote
>
>
>>Interesting stuff. A few years back I bought a cheap harbor freight 12v
>>cordless drill with an extra battery pack. Surprisingly the drill was
>>pretty good quality for the money but the battery packs were shot in a
>>week. Now the drill is still sitting around here somewhere and pretty
>>much useless. I was thinking about adding a long cord and a cigarette
>>lighter adapter so the thing could be used out and about rather than
>>tossing it. I'm considering fixing it now.
>
>
> Two things to consider, here.
>
> Cheap batteries, like you said. Probably very small capacity, too. Replace
> them with the largest capacity batteries that will fit, if you go that
> route.
>
> Next, is that the charger is a cheap, no brain charger, and will happily
> over charge your batteries, and charge your new battery to death.
>
> If you don't have a smart, peak detecting charger from another drill or
> power tool that you can rig a couple wires with alligator clips to, or slide
> terminals (whatever will work the best with your cheap drill pack) you
> should figure out what else you could do about charging.
>
> If you have enough stuff you want to charge properly, you could get a remote
> control car or airplane battery charger (a field charger that runs off of 12
> volts is probably your cheapest good option) and charge all of your assorted
> stuff with that. You know you are getting full charges, and not over
> charges. You would have to make the call on whether it is worth spending a
> fair amount of money on something like that.
>
> Another fairly inexpensive option is to use the charger that came with it,
> but add some "options" to it.
>
> With the drill pack drained, put a volt meter in line, and check how many
> milliamps the charger is putting out. As it is about half charged, and then
> 90% charged, read the milliamps again. That will give you some idea of how
> much the charger is putting out on average.
>
> Get yourself a 12 hour wind up timer switch, and make up a timed outlet to
> plug your cheap charger into. You should then be able to make an educated
> guess at how long it needs to charge, depending on how much you drained the
> battery. You will need to put about 10% extra charge (when charging a full
> charge time; pro-rate shorter times accordingly) into the battery, based on
> straight capacity and charger output.
>
> Note that this type of thing is not the best way to do things, but better
> than killing new batteries with over charges. If you have a smart charger
> around, adapt it to charge all of your stuff with dumb chargers.
>
> Hope that is food for though. I need to rig up a new pack and alternate
> charge method for a cheap drill, myself. It was so cheap I couldn't pass it
> up! <g>


Cerainly food for thought, Morg.

Thanks a lot.

Richard