Crazy loons

[raulb]

Can't Google or whoever is hosting this site do something about
getting rid of that crazy loon's persistant postings? This is a
glider site, not paranoia central!

[Tom Gardner]

On Nov 17, 7:31 pm, raulb > wrote:
> Can't Google or whoever is hosting this site do something about
> getting rid of that crazy loon's persistant postings? This is a
> glider site, not paranoia central!

Unfortunately not, since this is usenet not a website. Or, to be more
accurate, it is a web-interface to usenet. It is an excellent example
of "the internet interprets censorship as damage, and routes around
it".

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet> states
One notable difference [between usenet and] a BBS or web forum is
that there is no central server, nor central system owner. Usenet is
distributed among a large, constantly changing conglomeration of
servers which store and forward messages to one another. These servers
are loosely connected in a variable mesh.[clarify] Individual users
usually read from and post messages to a local server operated by
their ISP, university or employer. The servers then exchange the
messages between one another, so that they are available to readers
beyond the original server.

[Bullwinkle]

On 11/17/07 12:31 PM, in article
, "raulb"
> wrote:

> Can't Google or whoever is hosting this site do something about
> getting rid of that crazy loon's persistant postings? This is a
> glider site, not paranoia central!

Just killfile him. I have, and I don't even see his ravings on my
newsreader.

I had to go to Google Groups to see what you were talking about, and then I
remembered having killfiled him a while ago, during an earlier episode of
him apparently deciding to take a break from his medications.

Bullwinkle

[raulb]

On Nov 17, 12:12 pm, Bullwinkle > wrote:
>
> Just killfile him.

What des that mean?

[Bullwinkle]

On 11/17/07 4:58 PM, in article
, "raulb"
> wrote:

> On Nov 17, 12:12 pm, Bullwinkle > wrote:
>>
>> Just killfile him.
>
> What des that mean?
>
My newsreader has a setting for excluding certain posts. For instance, I can
instruct it to reject any posts from a certain email address, or user name,
or with a certain subject/topic, etc.

I use Entourage (for the Mac), but I think most other newsreaders have this
capability.

I did that with this guy, and it has worked very well. He's been "killfiled"
from my reading of r.a.s.

Bullwinkle

[RN]

The following is from Google Groups.
If they get enough feedback "click More Options at top of message and
select report message" they may see fit to block these messages.

================================================== =====================


How can I report cases of Usenet abuse from people posting though
Google Groups?


To report cases of Usenet abuse, click the "More options" link at the
top of the message and select "Report this message." On the report
page, describe why you think the post is abusive.

Please be aware that, while we appreciate how annoying off-topic posts
can be, Google does not regularly monitor or censor postings sent to
Google Groups, and we aren't able to pursue most complaints that we
receive. However, we do try to prevent wide-scale spam and other forms
of Usenet abuse, most notably involving numerous repeat offenses or
the posting of someone's personal information (such as credit card or
social security numbers). We'll use all of the information we receive
regarding abuse and spam to make large-scale changes to fight all
types of abuse. In Google Groups discussion groups (not Usenet
newsgroups), you can also ask the owner or moderator to remove a post.

For more information, please click the link below to view our Terms of
Service.

[Tom Gardner]

On Nov 18, 12:48 am, RN > wrote:
> The following is from Google Groups.
> If they get enough feedback "click More Options at top of message and
> select report message" they may see fit to block these messages.
>
> ================================================== =====================
>
> How can I report cases of Usenet abuse from people posting though
> Google Groups?

Unfortunately he isn't posting through google groups. And even if he
was, all he would have to do is create another google account with a
different name.

The best defence is, as others have noted, to use the filtering
facilities in your newsreader. In this case he Has A Very Important
Message (as opposed to just trolling on many subjects), so the best
technique would be to filter/kill any message with a subject
containing "MI5 Persecution".

See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newsgroup_spam> and <http://
www.templetons.com/brad/spamterm.html> if you are interested in the
history of such abuses.

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Bullwinkle wrote:
> My newsreader has a setting for excluding certain posts. For instance, I can
> instruct it to reject any posts from a certain email address, or user name,
> or with a certain subject/topic, etc.
>
> I use Entourage (for the Mac), but I think most other newsreaders have this
> capability.
>
A number don't have it, or its restricted in what it can do. Last but
not least, there's no agreed name for the facility.

Thunderbird is a mail/news program from the Mozilla/Firefox people which
has a reasonable killfile capability. It calls it the Message Filter.
This works OK and has only one drawback: you can't set a filter and then
use it to immediately clear out all matching messages - this would be
useful if you're bored with a particularly busy pest. Thunderbird runs
everywhere that the Firefox browser does, i.e. Windows, Mac and Linux
and is free for download.

If you're on Windows you can also use Forte's Agent. IMO this is the
best newsreader available. Its also free for download, so you can see if
you like it. A freshly downloaded copy runs as Free Agent and doesn't
have a killfile. If you like it you license it. This unlocks the
killfile capability also lets you use it for your mail, though IMO its
only average as a mail agent. Its killfile is great: very flexible, you
can set filters to vanish after they are no longer needed and best yet,
you can set a filter and immediately use it to clean up the newsgroup.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Tom Gardner]

On Nov 18, 1:02 pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> If you're on Windows you can also use Forte's Agent. IMO this is the
> best newsreader available. Its also free for download, so you can see if
> you like it. A freshly downloaded copy runs as Free Agent and doesn't
> have a killfile. If you like it you license it. This unlocks the
> killfile capability also lets you use it for your mail, though IMO its
> only average as a mail agent. Its killfile is great: very flexible, you
> can set filters to vanish after they are no longer needed and best yet,
> you can set a filter and immediately use it to clean up the newsgroup.

All that is true for XNews, except that it is free <http://
xnews.newsguy.com/>. It can also be driven from the keyboard, thus
avoiding many mouse movements. it is my usenet reader of choice.

[Tim Ward[_1_]]

"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
news:fop515-> If you're on Windows you can also use Forte's Agent. IMO this
is the
> best newsreader available. Its also free for download, so you can see if
> you like it. A freshly downloaded copy runs as Free Agent and doesn't
> have a killfile. If you like it you license it. This unlocks the
> killfile capability also lets you use it for your mail, though IMO its
> only average as a mail agent. Its killfile is great: very flexible, you
> can set filters to vanish after they are no longer needed and best yet,
> you can set a filter and immediately use it to clean up the newsgroup.
>
>


And if you happen to be using Windows and Outlook Express (not too uncommon
a situation), you can highlight a message from the loon, click on "Message"
and select "Block Sender".

Tim Ward

[Bruce B.]

I'm still trying to figure out how to read post via Mozilla
Thunderbird instead of Google, which will take time since I'm a
computer dummy. Mean while I'm going to flag him to Google twice a
day as a "spammer" and "false or defamatory content", since I'm sure
MI5 can't be as bad as he says. I checked his record and he has
120,000+ messages. He even talks about his meds. Maybe if enough of
us flag him regularly, Google will filter it. I time I'll figure out
how to use Outlook Express New Reader instead of Google.

[Tom Gardner]

On Nov 18, 9:40 pm, "Bruce B." > wrote:
> Maybe if enough of
> us flag him regularly, Google will filter it.

Sorry to shout, but BY DESIGN google CANNOT DO ANYTHING and SHOULD NOT
BE ABLE to do anything. He has NO relationship with google. The only
relationship here is that YOU CHOOSE to use a web browser to read his
posts indirectly via the google website!

Other choices are to use a more specialised tool (i.e. a usenet
client) to read usenet directly. Usenet clients are designed to avoid
such pain-in-the-backsides. I don't use Lookout Express, so I have no
opinion as to how good it is or isn't (but I've heard it is better
than the full version of Outlook, sigh)

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Tim Ward wrote:
>
> And if you happen to be using Windows and Outlook Express (not too uncommon
> a situation), you can highlight a message from the loon, click on "Message"
> and select "Block Sender".
>
All the newsreaders with killfiles that I've used can do that.

The better newsreaders let you use patterns as well as complete names in
filters. Its a feature that's worth looking for.

While this might not be a big deal here, where there are almost no
pests, its rather useful in other groups. For instance, in one group
there was a troll who kept permuting his name. A simple match was useful
for 10 days at most before he changed it again, but something like
" would catch future permutations as well.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
...
> Tim Ward wrote:
>>
>> And if you happen to be using Windows and Outlook Express (not too
>> uncommon
>> a situation), you can highlight a message from the loon, click on
>> "Message"
>> and select "Block Sender".
>>
> All the newsreaders with killfiles that I've used can do that.
>

The problem (for the original poster) is that he is not using a newsreader -
he is accessing usenet though google groups. A pretty sucky interface...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
>
> The problem (for the original poster) is that he is not using a newsreader -
> he is accessing usenet though google groups. A pretty sucky interface...
>
Agreed. IMO using a web browser to read bulletin boards, be they mailing
lists, newsgroups or web forums is *always* suboptimal. Those who insist
on doing it are welcome to all the self-inflicted pain they receive.

The guy I replied to is using Lookout to read a newsgroup when he may
have a better experience with a dedicated news reader.

My experiences is that mail readers make poor news readers and vice
versa. I've yet to see a web browser that didn't suck big time at
handling either mail or newsgroups, and that also goes for Opera, the
best browser I've found.

I realize I'm going against my advice by using a mail client
(Thunderbird) as a news reader. Its not ideal, but I get on with it
better than I have with Pan and haven't so far found any Linux
newsreader I like better than Thunderbird - certainly nothing thats up
to the Agent standard. When Thunderbird irritates me enough I suppose
I'll either install Agent under WINE or roll my own in Java.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Tom Gardner]

On Nov 19, 12:17 pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> Agreed. IMO using a web browser to read bulletin boards, be they mailing
> lists, newsgroups or web forums is *always* suboptimal. Those who insist
> on doing it are welcome to all the self-inflicted pain they receive.

I'll play Devil's Advocate and claim that google is just about OK
for groups with a low volume and high signal-to-noise ratio.
And r.a.s (usually) fits those criteria.

> I realize I'm going against my advice by using a mail client
> (Thunderbird) as a news reader. Its not ideal, but I get on with it
> better than I have with Pan and haven't so far found any Linux
> newsreader I like better than Thunderbird - certainly nothing thats up
> to the Agent standard. When Thunderbird irritates me enough I suppose
> I'll either install Agent under WINE or roll my own in Java.

Pragmatism is always a useful virtue. Pan is just about alright,
but don't forget that simple Windows applications can also be
run under wine.

Alternatively, my simple Win98 installation boots up in about 20s
when running in the (free) VMWare server. Only sensible way of
running Windows applications :}

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
...
> Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe wrote:
>>
>> The problem (for the original poster) is that he is not using a
>> newsreader - he is accessing usenet though google groups. A pretty sucky
>> interface...
>>
> Agreed. IMO using a web browser to read bulletin boards, be they mailing
> lists, newsgroups or web forums is *always* suboptimal. Those who insist
> on doing it are welcome to all the self-inflicted pain they receive.
>
> The guy I replied to is using Lookout to read a newsgroup when he may have
> a better experience with a dedicated news reader.
<...>

OK - I missed that.

FWIW, I use Outlook Express and it's only 3 or 4 clicks to make someone
"disappear"...

I had to go to Google groups to see who was being complained about.

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Tom Gardner wrote:
>
> Pragmatism is always a useful virtue. Pan is just about alright,
> but don't forget that simple Windows applications can also be
> run under wine.
>
I was sort of happy with it, but I didn't like what it would do
sometimes with mis-hit keystrokes and I really didn't like its thread
handling from the POV of expanding and collapsing them.

> Alternatively, my simple Win98 installation boots up in about 20s
> when running in the (free) VMWare server. Only sensible way of
> running Windows applications :}
>
How much RAM is needed to run it Win 95/98 under the basic VMWare
server? I'm asking because all my hardware is small and old. I guess
there's no chance on this 192 MB, 300 MHz laptop, and the installer said
my main box is marginal when I upgraded from Fedora Core 6 to FC7 2 or 3
weeks ago (256 MB, 866MHz).


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Tim Ward[_1_]]

"Martin Gregorie" > wrote in message
...
> Tim Ward wrote:
> >
> > And if you happen to be using Windows and Outlook Express (not too
uncommon
> > a situation), you can highlight a message from the loon, click on
"Message"
> > and select "Block Sender".
> >
> All the newsreaders with killfiles that I've used can do that.
>
> The better newsreaders let you use patterns as well as complete names in
> filters. Its a feature that's worth looking for.
>
> While this might not be a big deal here, where there are almost no
> pests, its rather useful in other groups. For instance, in one group
> there was a troll who kept permuting his name. A simple match was useful
> for 10 days at most before he changed it again, but something like
> " would catch future permutations as well.
>

Sure. OE isn't a great newsreader. But it's a common one. Since he's
reading through Google, it wouldn't have helped anyway.

Tim Ward

[Tom Gardner]

On Nov 20, 1:04 am, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> Tom Gardner wrote:
>
> > Pragmatism is always a useful virtue. Pan is just about alright,
> > but don't forget that simple Windows applications can also be
> > run under wine.
>
> I was sort of happy with it, but I didn't like what it would do
> sometimes with mis-hit keystrokes and I really didn't like its thread
> handling from the POV of expanding and collapsing them.
>
> > Alternatively, my simple Win98 installation boots up in about 20s
> > when running in the (free) VMWare server. Only sensible way of
> > running Windows applications :}
>
> How much RAM is needed to run it Win 95/98 under the basic VMWare
> server? I'm asking because all my hardware is small and old. I guess
> there's no chance on this 192 MB, 300 MHz laptop, and the installer said
> my main box is marginal when I upgraded from Fedora Core 6 to FC7 2 or 3
> weeks ago (256 MB, 866MHz).

Not as much as you might think, but that probably isn't enough
(depending
on which X window manager you use). If you get a new basic 2 core
machine
with 1GB ram, you'd be surprised how fast *everything* flies. The
first place
I looked had such a box (processor, RAM, disk) for only £222 inc VAT.
With that you will be able to run several Win98 VMs simultaneously!

Observations, tips, mitigating factors...

It needs less ram than might be expected, since VMWare and linux
provide
all the "real" device drivers; the Win98 drivers are either the small
basic
MS drivers, or "thin" VMWare drivers. Nonetheless, you need enough
for linux plus Win98 simultaneously, or you will get excessive page
swapping. 192MB would be pushing it unless you have a very lean
X window manager. 256MB is OK, but 512MB is better. You can
tune Win98 to avoid using RAM for it disk cache (since that is
duplicating the linux kernel function)

Everytime you start up a VM, you define the amount of RAM
associated with that machine; experimentation is easy.
IIRC 96MB for Win98 is as low as you would want to go.

So far as Win98 is concerned, it can't tell it isn't poking real
hardware.
On power up, you see the well-known BIOS (Phoenix for VMWare)
and MSDOS startup sequence.

The entire "Win98 disk(s)" (i.e. c: d: etc) are stored in a single
large
linux file. The linux filesystem tends to store this sequentially
and to pre-fetch, all of which helps Win98 boot quickly.

Since the Win98 installation is fairly minimal, it boots quickly.

You can tradeoff real ram for diskspace using the same
techniques you use to avoid reinstalling Win98 every few months.
Install Win98 as usual on a virtual 1GB hard disk, and do
the standard updates and install the minimal apps that
you always want. Power down the virtual machine cleanly.

Write-protect the linux files containing c:, copy them,
boot up the next VM using the copied files, and install
another app.

When that "copied Win98" becomes corrupted, simply
re-copy the linux files and, hey-presto, you have a clean
Win98 installation again.

[ContestID67]

>
> Sorry to shout, but BY DESIGN google CANNOT DO ANYTHING and SHOULD NOT
> BE ABLE to do anything. He has NO relationship with google. The only
> relationship here is that YOU CHOOSE to use a web browser to read his
> posts indirectly via the google website!
>

Tom is right, there is nothing that Google (or anyone basically) can
do. The analogy that I give is like trying to blame your car radio
for receiving an offending "shock jock". You can't call up Ford and
tell them to block it as they have no control. Unfortunately you
can't even picket the radio station because Usenet news (which is what
you are reading) is broadcast from 1000's upong 1000's of "stations"
and the MI5 guy could be sending his message from any of them.

This basically is a never ending battle within all Usenet news
groups. There are two general solutions;

Simplest: Switch to a standalone Usenet news reader that can block
(filter, killfile) individual types of posts (by author, content,
subject, etc). Using a web based tool such as Google is great, but it
has its limitations.

Hardest: Make rec.aviation.soaring a moderated news group. This means
that one or more moderators decide what is posted and who can post.
While this cleans up the news group and keeps out the un-medicated, it
limits the content (both width, breath and speed). Bascially, we
don't want to go there.

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Tom Gardner wrote:
>
> 192MB would be pushing it unless you have a very lean
> X window manager.
>
It won't do it in that case - its a Thinkpad 560Z running Fedora Core 1
with Gnome.

> 256MB is OK, but 512MB is better.
>
I periodically wonder about extending it to 512 MB RAM but it is a 5 yr
old (866 MHz) NetVista so the RAM would need to be cheap. I expect to
replace the box sooner or later, but probably with something a lot more
energy-efficient such as a mini-ITX board in a fanless case.

Many thanks for your tips, though. I've filed them for future reference.

BTW, is it worth trying to run my gliding software (the EW Uploader, EW
View, TPSelect, FlexGPS etc.) under WINE or should I bite the bullet and
go for VMWare + Win 95? Currently all this stuff runs under Win95 on an
AMD K6/266. From what you say, adding an extra 256 MB to the NetVista
would let me move the W95 setup over to it and the old AMD box could die
gracefully.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Tim Ward wrote:
>
> Sure. OE isn't a great newsreader. But it's a common one. Since he's
> reading through Google, it wouldn't have helped anyway.
>
I don't understand that. I thought you had to use a web browser to
access Google Groups.

How would he use OE? Does Google Groups provide both Web and NNTP
connections?


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Tom Gardner]

On Nov 20, 3:44 pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> Tom Gardner wrote:
> I periodically wonder about extending it to 512 MB RAM but it is a 5 yr
> old (866 MHz) NetVista so the RAM would need to be cheap.

From crucial or kingston, I guess it would be about £30.

> BTW, is it worth trying to run my gliding software (the EW Uploader, EW
> View, TPSelect, FlexGPS etc.) under WINE or should I bite the bullet and
> go for VMWare + Win 95? Currently all this stuff runs under Win95 on an
> AMD K6/266. From what you say, adding an extra 256 MB to the NetVista
> would let me move the W95 setup over to it and the old AMD box could die
> gracefully.

WINE seems to work, mostly, but requires a lot of tweaking.
VMWare just works, including browsers, audio and video playback.
Classic time vs cost tradeoff!
Have a look at the number/type of VMWare images that can be
downloaded from their website - it is clear that commercially
this is the way forward.

I strongly recommend you get a dual core machine. Currently many
apps presume a single CPU, so you'll still have a usable CPU
even when the other is 100% utilised. And it probably isn't worth
getting less than 2GB memory, even though linux will use most
of it as a disk cache :)

I'll check up tonight about my exact config.

[[email protected]]

On Nov 20, 7:48 am, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> Tim Ward wrote:
>
> > Sure. OE isn't a great newsreader. But it's a common one. Since he's
> > reading through Google, it wouldn't have helped anyway.
>
> I don't understand that. I thought you had to use a web browser to
> access Google Groups.
>
> How would he use OE? Does Google Groups provide both Web and NNTP
> connections?
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |

Your ISP likely has a news server. They also likely recommend a news
reader. Failing that google for "news server" or "nntp server" and
you'll find some that you can subscribe to, maybe for a small fee.

rec.aviation.soaring happens to feed into Google Groups. Please stop
thinking of it as a "Google Group". Google likely does not provide a
nntp/news server since they want to play you advertising as you read
news.

rec.aviation.soaring is a Usenet group, a wonderful distributed
collection of computer systems managing distribution of news traffic,
largely uncontrolled by anybody but works remarkably well. Usenet has
always relied primarily on client side kill files for handling abuse,
just make the !@#$heads invisible. There is no army of usenet police
who have time to track down annoying posts and deal with spammers.
ISPs can cut them off and post an occasional kill message but the
barrier to them just resigning up with another ISP is very low.
Bothering to report abuse to Google or other carriers is almost a
waste of time. And out MI5 friend has usually posted from outside
Google - but I don't see his posts so they don't bother me so I don't
know where he is posting from now. I would not know there was any spam
except for the threads discussing it. Even when reading
rec.aviation.soaring via Google groups I don't see the spam...

As I've posted before here. If you are using Mozilla Firefox then you
can use the greasemonkey plug in
and an available grease monkey script to add kill file type behavior
to the Google web based news reader. It is a kludge but it works. If
you are using Microsoft Internet Explorer, you have my sympathy, and
its time to upgrade to Mozilla Firefox.

Google for greasemonkey and install that extension to Mozilla. Then go
to http://www.penney.org/google-groups-killfile-updated-2.html and
download the script, use Mozilla to browse to the script on your
filesystem and click on it, you should see greasemonkey then offer to
install it.

Darryl

[Tom Gardner]

On Nov 20, 4:23 pm, Tom Gardner > wrote:
> I'll check up tonight about my exact config.

My VMWare configs for the guest VM are:
- guest recommended minimum 64MB
- VMWare minimum 256MB
- my setting 128MB, runs opera and xnews,
and can't think of much else to run!
So it ought to run in 256MB RAM

Win95 sees these virtual io devices:
- C: 1GB hard disk
- 2*cdrom (/dev/hd{cd})
- floppy
- Ethernet driver (plus emulated NAT bridge to the linux ethernet
driver)
- sound adaptor
- mouse
- no USB (but I haven't tried to get them working)

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Tom Gardner wrote:
> On Nov 20, 4:23 pm, Tom Gardner > wrote:
>> I'll check up tonight about my exact config.
>
> My VMWare configs for the guest VM are:
> - guest recommended minimum 64MB
> - VMWare minimum 256MB
> - my setting 128MB, runs opera and xnews,
> and can't think of much else to run!
> So it ought to run in 256MB RAM
>
> Win95 sees these virtual io devices:
> - C: 1GB hard disk
> - 2*cdrom (/dev/hd{cd})
> - floppy
> - Ethernet driver (plus emulated NAT bridge to the linux ethernet
> driver)
> - sound adaptor
> - mouse
> - no USB (but I haven't tried to get them working)
>
Thanks for showing me that. Its most useful as I have little idea about
what VMWare can do for me. Now, apologies are due because I have a few
more questions.

What about printer and serial ports?

If VMWare can't see serial ports that would be a show stopper. I need
serial port access to download traces from my EW model D and to load
waypoints into my Garmin GPS II+.

I also need a printer for a Windows CAD package that I'd like to
continue to use. It has a dongle on the printer port as well as sending
output to a (networked) printer and an HP 7475 plotter on a serial port.

Can VMWare emulate a networked printer connection to talk to a local
copy of Samba?

Lastly, Can it access shared disks via a local copy of Samba? Using it
to access the Linux FS would be a neat way of escaping the 1GB emulated
disk limit and it would also provide a convenient way of loading stuff
from my old W95 box onto the virtual disk once VMWare is set up and
Win95 has been installed.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[[email protected]]

The answer is YES to all your question. VMware Workstation is a great
product, but then I'm a little biased :-)

VMware has extensive online forums where you can find other info or
just download and try a copy of VMware Workstation before deciding to
purchase.

Darryl Ramm

On Nov 20, 1:30 pm, Martin Gregorie >
wrote:
> Tom Gardner wrote:
> > On Nov 20, 4:23 pm, Tom Gardner > wrote:
> >> I'll check up tonight about my exact config.
>
> > My VMWare configs for the guest VM are:
> > - guest recommended minimum 64MB
> > - VMWare minimum 256MB
> > - my setting 128MB, runs opera and xnews,
> > and can't think of much else to run!
> > So it ought to run in 256MB RAM
>
> > Win95 sees these virtual io devices:
> > - C: 1GB hard disk
> > - 2*cdrom (/dev/hd{cd})
> > - floppy
> > - Ethernet driver (plus emulated NAT bridge to the linux ethernet
> > driver)
> > - sound adaptor
> > - mouse
> > - no USB (but I haven't tried to get them working)
>
> Thanks for showing me that. Its most useful as I have little idea about
> what VMWare can do for me. Now, apologies are due because I have a few
> more questions.
>
> What about printer and serial ports?
>
> If VMWare can't see serial ports that would be a show stopper. I need
> serial port access to download traces from my EW model D and to load
> waypoints into my Garmin GPS II+.
>
> I also need a printer for a Windows CAD package that I'd like to
> continue to use. It has a dongle on the printer port as well as sending
> output to a (networked) printer and an HP 7475 plotter on a serial port.
>
> Can VMWare emulate a networked printer connection to talk to a local
> copy of Samba?
>
> Lastly, Can it access shared disks via a local copy of Samba? Using it
> to access the Linux FS would be a neat way of escaping the 1GB emulated
> disk limit and it would also provide a convenient way of loading stuff
> from my old W95 box onto the virtual disk once VMWare is set up and
> Win95 has been installed.
>
> --
> martin@ | Martin Gregorie
> gregorie. | Essex, UK
> org |

[Tom Gardner]

n Nov 20, 9:30 pm, Martin Gregorie > wrote:

The emulation is *seriously* good. The guest operating systems have
great difficulty determining that they are being emulated. Win98
doesn't
have a clue, but I suspect Vista might.

The completeness of the emulation poses some *very* interesting
new problems for anti-virus/trojan products: if the host operating
system is compromised then there is zero chance the anti-virus
product inside a virtual machine could detect it. Think of it as a
rootkit on steroids.

> Thanks for showing me that. Its most useful as I have little idea about
> what VMWare can do for me. Now, apologies are due because I have a few
> more questions.
>
> What about printer and serial ports?

It appears that the VMWare config allows you to attach
the guest serial port (com1) to the linux serial port, a
file or a pipe. I haven't tried it.

> I also need a printer for a Windows CAD package that I'd like to
> continue to use. It has a dongle on the printer port as well as sending
> output to a (networked) printer and an HP 7475 plotter on a serial port.

Ditto parallel port or SCSI devices

> Can VMWare emulate a networked printer connection to talk to a local
> copy of Samba?

No. But that's the wrong question. Win98 sees an ethernet and if
you have Samba somewhere (e.g. on your linux box) then it can
see that.

> Lastly, Can it access shared disks via a local copy of Samba?

The emulation of the ethernet segment and ethenet bridge is
really transparent. If you can do something on a real network,
then it can be done with VMWare. And that includes having
multiple Win98 emulated virtual machines simultaneously connected
to the same emulated network segment and same real network.
(That is of real practical use if you want to determine how a
cluster of machines will act when one fails without warning:
simply have a cluster of emulated machines and turn off
the power to one of them!)

My emulated linux box is 192.168.1.40
The emulated NATting bridge uses DHCP to assign the
Win98 ethernet virtual adaptor the address 172.16.27.128
If in a Win98 CMD shell I execute "tracert 192.168.1.40" the
response is

Tracing route to 192.168.1.40 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 <10 ms <10 ms <10 ms 172.16.27.2
2 <10 ms <10 ms <10 ms 192.168.1.40

> Using it
> to access the Linux FS would be a neat way of escaping the 1GB emulated
> disk limit

No such limit; I used it as a tradeoff between enough space on
the virtual disk and having too large linux files. Win95/98 will be
the
limiting factor. (Nothing new there)

> and it would also provide a convenient way of loading stuff
> from my old W95 box onto the virtual disk once VMWare is set up and
> Win95 has been installed.

Definitely. But might be easier to use the standard
Windows network neighbourhood techniques.

I suggest you download VMWare Server from
<http://www.vmware.com/download/server/> and install it.
It is only 101MB.

Then restart your X server with the smallest nastiest window
manager (twm?) so as to minimise the pressure on ram.

Then start a VM and install Win98. You'll get 16colour
640x480 screen but VMware provide a Win98 device driver
that circumvents that limitation.

And do have a look at <http://www.vmware.com/appliances/
marketplace.html>
to see *many preconfigured OSs, software stacks and applications.
(e.g. <http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/649> :)

The only surprise you might have is that when running it you:
- use linux to open a VMWare console
- select the virtual image you wish to use (i.e. the disks etc being
emulated)
- turn on the power, and wait for Win98 to boot
If you then close the VMWare console, the Win98 machine is still
there
and running. If you re-open the console with the same virtual image,
it
reconnects to the already running Win98 instance - i.e. no reboot.

To remove the Win98 instance, do a standard Win98 shutdown, or use
the console to turn off the power, or to send a three fingered salute.

[Martin Gregorie[_1_]]

Tom Gardner wrote:
>
> I suggest you download VMWare Server from
> <http://www.vmware.com/download/server/> and install it.
> It is only 101MB.
>
I've got all your excellent advice noted for future reference. It
certainly looks as if virtualisation is the way to go.

I'll get to it soon, but in the meanwhile I have a fairly major Java
project in the works that I really have to finish before sorting out
this stuff. Its got side tracked more than enough recently.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

[Ann O'Rack]

Why don't you move this thread to rec.geeks where it
belongs and leave this group for people who have friends?


At 03:06 21 November 2007, Martin Gregorie wrote:
>Tom Gardner wrote:
>>
>> I suggest you download VMWare Server from
>> and install it.
>> It is only 101MB.
>>
>I've got all your excellent advice noted for future
>reference. It
>certainly looks as if virtualisation is the way to
>go.
>
>I'll get to it soon, but in the meanwhile I have a
>fairly major Java
>project in the works that I really have to finish before
>sorting out
>this stuff. Its got side tracked more than enough recently.
>
>
>--
>martin@ | Martin Gregorie
>gregorie. | Essex, UK
>org |
>