Cleveland Wheel Shims

[Ron Wanttaja]

I need to add some shims to the axles of my Fly Baby to reduce the side-to-side
movement of my wheels (the axles aren't threaded at the end, the wheels are held
on with a cross-bolt through a bushing).

I basically need some thin metal washers with a 1.5" inside diameter. I'm
suspecting the "Ring-Grease Seal" items on Cleveland 600x6 wheels is what I'm
looking for. However, there are multiple part numbers for the same item
(153-00300, 153-00400, etc.). I'm suspecting these are differing
thickness...anybody got a table that shows the thickness by part number?

Ron Wanttaja

[stol]

On Nov 24, 12:00 pm, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
> I need to add some shims to the axles of my Fly Baby to reduce the side-to-side
> movement of my wheels (the axles aren't threaded at the end, the wheels are held
> on with a cross-bolt through a bushing).
>
> I basically need some thin metal washers with a 1.5" inside diameter. I'm
> suspecting the "Ring-Grease Seal" items on Cleveland 600x6 wheels is what I'm
> looking for. However, there are multiple part numbers for the same item
> (153-00300, 153-00400, etc.). I'm suspecting these are differing
> thickness...anybody got a table that shows the thickness by part number?
>
> Ron Wanttaja

Ron. If you can measure the total thickness needed I can machine some
one piece billet spacers. This will be better then several washers
stacked up to get that side play out of the axle...
Just a thought...

Ben
www.haaspowerair.com

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:33:17 -0800 (PST), stol > wrote:

> On Nov 24, 12:00 pm, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
> > I need to add some shims to the axles of my Fly Baby to reduce the side-to-side
> > movement of my wheels (the axles aren't threaded at the end, the wheels are held
> > on with a cross-bolt through a bushing).
> >
> > I basically need some thin metal washers with a 1.5" inside diameter. I'm
> > suspecting the "Ring-Grease Seal" items on Cleveland 600x6 wheels is what I'm
> > looking for. However, there are multiple part numbers for the same item
> > (153-00300, 153-00400, etc.). I'm suspecting these are differing
> > thickness...anybody got a table that shows the thickness by part number?
> >
> > Ron Wanttaja
>
> Ron. If you can measure the total thickness needed I can machine some
> one piece billet spacers. This will be better then several washers
> stacked up to get that side play out of the axle...
> Just a thought...

Thanks, Ben, but I'm hoping to settle this with a bit less bother. The
off-the-shelf spacers cost just $5 or so, and I can probably make my own from
sheet stock with a fly cutter. Besides, I don't *know* how much slop there is;
I was just going to get a set of the skinniest shims and try them out.

Ron Wanttaja

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:59:20 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
> wrote:

>On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:33:17 -0800 (PST), stol > wrote:
>
>> On Nov 24, 12:00 pm, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
>> > I need to add some shims to the axles of my Fly Baby to reduce the side-to-side
>> > movement of my wheels (the axles aren't threaded at the end, the wheels are held
>> > on with a cross-bolt through a bushing).
>> >
>> > I basically need some thin metal washers with a 1.5" inside diameter. I'm
>> > suspecting the "Ring-Grease Seal" items on Cleveland 600x6 wheels is what I'm
>> > looking for. However, there are multiple part numbers for the same item
>> > (153-00300, 153-00400, etc.). I'm suspecting these are differing
>> > thickness...anybody got a table that shows the thickness by part number?
>> >
>> > Ron Wanttaja
>>
>> Ron. If you can measure the total thickness needed I can machine some
>> one piece billet spacers. This will be better then several washers
>> stacked up to get that side play out of the axle...
>> Just a thought...
>
>Thanks, Ben, but I'm hoping to settle this with a bit less bother. The
>off-the-shelf spacers cost just $5 or so, and I can probably make my own from
>sheet stock with a fly cutter. Besides, I don't *know* how much slop there is;
>I was just going to get a set of the skinniest shims and try them out.
>
>Ron Wanttaja

I think you've got something wrong there ron.
the shims need to bear on the inner races and when tightened by the
split pinned nut the taper roller bearings need to have no slop but
also no preload.
the shims most assuredly do not bear on the grease seals.
the grease seals should actually be a reasonably neat seal around the
outer periphery of the shim washer.

ben's offer of a machined shim or two is the best approach.
if the next split pin position is too tight then a rubbing session on
a sheet of wet and dry abrasive paper backed by a sheet of glass is
the easiest way of reducing the thickness of the shim.
I made mine in 2024 aluminium about 9 years ago and they havent worn
or needed adjustment. it is a simple turning exercise on a lathe.

Stealth Pilot

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:54:12 +0900, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:

> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:59:20 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
> > wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:33:17 -0800 (PST), stol > wrote:
> >
> >> On Nov 24, 12:00 pm, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
> >> > I need to add some shims to the axles of my Fly Baby to reduce the side-to-side
> >> > movement of my wheels (the axles aren't threaded at the end, the wheels are held
> >> > on with a cross-bolt through a bushing).
>
> I think you've got something wrong there ron.
> the shims need to bear on the inner races and when tightened by the
> split pinned nut the taper roller bearings need to have no slop but
> also no preload.

Check my description...there *is* no nut to tighten. The wheel slides on, then
a short piece of tubing (which I called a "bushing" but have been corrected to
term a "collar") slides onto the axle as a retainer. There's a cross-hole
drilled through the collar and axle, and an AN-3 bolt goes through to hold them.
There's no threads on the axle, and nothing to tighten. See:

http://www.bowersflybaby.com/wheel.jpg

Ron Wanttaja

[Frank Stutzman[_2_]]

Ron Wanttaja > wrote:

> http://www.bowersflybaby.com/wheel.jpg

I know you flybaby owners keep the air pressure in your tires on the
low side for some extra shock absorbency, but geeze Ron, isn't
that a bit excessive?


--
Frank Stutzman
Bonanza N494B "Hula Girl"
Boise, ID

[Maxwell]

"Ron Wanttaja" > wrote in message
...
>I need to add some shims to the axles of my Fly Baby to reduce the
>side-to-side
> movement of my wheels (the axles aren't threaded at the end, the wheels
> are held
> on with a cross-bolt through a bushing).
>
> I basically need some thin metal washers with a 1.5" inside diameter. I'm
> suspecting the "Ring-Grease Seal" items on Cleveland 600x6 wheels is what
> I'm
> looking for. However, there are multiple part numbers for the same item
> (153-00300, 153-00400, etc.). I'm suspecting these are differing
> thickness...anybody got a table that shows the thickness by part number?
>

You might check with a local bearing supplier. I think flat races for
Torrington needle roller thrust bearings might work for you. They are pretty
reasonable as I recall and very tough. I think they come in .030, .060, .090
and .120 thickness for most diameters. You might be able to find them
locally this afternoon.

[Charles Vincent]

Ron Wanttaja wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:54:12 +0900, Stealth Pilot
> > wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:59:20 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
>> > wrote:
>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:33:17 -0800 (PST), stol > wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Nov 24, 12:00 pm, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
>>>>> I need to add some shims to the axles of my Fly Baby to reduce the side-to-side
>>>>> movement of my wheels (the axles aren't threaded at the end, the wheels are held
>>>>> on with a cross-bolt through a bushing).

> There's no threads on the axle, and nothing to tighten. See:
>
> http://www.bowersflybaby.com/wheel.jpg
>
> Ron Wanttaja

Personally, I would cross drill a few additional holes varying the edge
distance slightly. That way you can use a hardened shim selection for a
thrust bearing and between the collar and shims have a range to dial in
whatever spacing you need.

Charles

[Bob Kuykendall]

Earlier, Charles Vincent wrote:

> Personally, I would cross drill a few additional holes varying the edge
> distance slightly...

I think that's what I would do as well. I'd drill two additional hole
sets that vary the edge clearance in .030 (1/32") increments, and use
the ones that match closest.

My own experience is that tapered roller bearings of this type are
very tolerant of endplay. What they don't like is being crowded
axially. But they don't seem to mind the looseness much as long as
it's not huge. And with the loads applied by your little puddle-jumper
and the taxi mileage over which you apply them, I don't see a need for
heroics here.

The Schreder HP-18 sailplane has the same sort of tapered roller
bearings, and each builder adjusts the endplay by hand-fitting a pair
of spacers. So far, bearing wear has been a non-issue.

My bet is that these wheels use a standard Timken set common to a lot
of cars and trailers, and that for the cost of micrometer precision
you could buy enough sets to change them at annual time every year for
ten years whether they need it or not.

If I was making a ton of those parts I think I'd mill a pair of 3/4"
long slots that spiral about 1/8" axially. That way you'd just twist
the retainer until it snugged up against the bearing, and then tighten
the nut and go fly.

Thanks, Bob K.

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 16:15:35 +0000 (UTC), Frank Stutzman
> wrote:

> Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
>
> > http://www.bowersflybaby.com/wheel.jpg
>
> I know you flybaby owners keep the air pressure in your tires on the
> low side for some extra shock absorbency, but geeze Ron, isn't
> that a bit excessive?

I hate long roll-outs... :-)

Ron Wanttaja

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 07:37:03 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
> wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:54:12 +0900, Stealth Pilot
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:59:20 -0800, Ron Wanttaja
>> > wrote:
>>
>> >On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 16:33:17 -0800 (PST), stol > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Nov 24, 12:00 pm, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
>> >> > I need to add some shims to the axles of my Fly Baby to reduce the side-to-side
>> >> > movement of my wheels (the axles aren't threaded at the end, the wheels are held
>> >> > on with a cross-bolt through a bushing).
>>
>> I think you've got something wrong there ron.
>> the shims need to bear on the inner races and when tightened by the
>> split pinned nut the taper roller bearings need to have no slop but
>> also no preload.
>
>Check my description...there *is* no nut to tighten. The wheel slides on, then
>a short piece of tubing (which I called a "bushing" but have been corrected to
>term a "collar") slides onto the axle as a retainer. There's a cross-hole
>drilled through the collar and axle, and an AN-3 bolt goes through to hold them.
>There's no threads on the axle, and nothing to tighten. See:
>
>http://www.bowersflybaby.com/wheel.jpg
>
>Ron Wanttaja

the solution is not to add shims but to put in another cross drilling
for the bolt through the outer tube to move it in snug again. say at
30 degrees to the existing cross drilling.

make a little jig to position the drill. looks like an easy task.

Stealth Pilot

[John[_9_]]

On Nov 24, 2:00�pm, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
> I need to add some shims to the axles of my Fly Baby to reduce the side-to-side
> movement of my wheels (the axles aren't threaded at the end, the wheels are held
> on with a cross-bolt through a bushing).
>
> I basically need some thin metal washers with a 1.5" inside diameter. �I'm
> suspecting the "Ring-Grease Seal" items on Cleveland 600x6 wheels is what I'm
> looking for. �However, there are multiple part numbers for the same item
> (153-00300, 153-00400, etc.). �I'm suspecting these are differing
> thickness...anybody got a table that shows the thickness by part number?
>
> Ron Wanttaja

The 153-xxxxx Ring-Grease Seal is designed to back up the wheel
bearing. In effect it is a cupped washer. It might serve for what you
want if you grind the rubber cup off of the flat washer it is bonded
to. It is not a typical axle spacer though.

John Dupre'

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 19:05:15 -0800 (PST), John > wrote:

> On Nov 24, 2:00?pm, Ron Wanttaja > wrote:
> > I need to add some shims to the axles of my Fly Baby to reduce the side-to-side
> > movement of my wheels (the axles aren't threaded at the end, the wheels are held
> > on with a cross-bolt through a bushing).
> >
> > I basically need some thin metal washers with a 1.5" inside diameter. ?I'm
> > suspecting the "Ring-Grease Seal" items on Cleveland 600x6 wheels is what I'm
> > looking for. ?However, there are multiple part numbers for the same item
> > (153-00300, 153-00400, etc.). ?I'm suspecting these are differing
> > thickness...anybody got a table that shows the thickness by part number?
> >
> > Ron Wanttaja
>
> The 153-xxxxx Ring-Grease Seal is designed to back up the wheel
> bearing. In effect it is a cupped washer. It might serve for what you
> want if you grind the rubber cup off of the flat washer it is bonded
> to. It is not a typical axle spacer though.

Thanks, John, exactly the kind of info I needed. One of our fellow RAHers has
some shim stock and it cutting me the kind of washers I need.

Ron Wanttaja