Boeing 747-400 Out of Production Models

[Test[_2_]]

Boeing 747-400 Out of Production Models

These livery were discontinued on Singapore Airlines after they caused
flight SQ 006 to crash. Last model produced in 2000. Truly limited
edition.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260186455587

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260186456256

[Darkwing]

"Test" > wrote in message
...
> Boeing 747-400 Out of Production Models
>
> These livery were discontinued on Singapore Airlines after they caused
> flight SQ 006 to crash. Last model produced in 2000. Truly limited
> edition.
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260186455587
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260186456256

So how does a paint job cause a crash exactly? AND SHOW YOUR WORK!

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Darkwing" <theducksmailATyahoo.com> wrote in
:

>
> "Test" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Boeing 747-400 Out of Production Models
>>
>> These livery were discontinued on Singapore Airlines after they caused
>> flight SQ 006 to crash. Last model produced in 2000. Truly limited
>> edition.
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260186455587
>>
>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260186456256
>
> So how does a paint job cause a crash exactly? AND SHOW YOUR WORK!
>

Well, one way is not to balance the flight controls after a repaint. I know
of one Bonanza lost that way.

AKAIK that airplane was lost due to a runway collision of some sort. Wrong
runway? In OZ, maybe?
Maybe it was painted the same as the jungle.


Bertie

[Robert M. Gary]

On Nov 25, 10:03 am, "Darkwing" <theducksmailATyahoo.com> wrote:

> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260186455587
>
> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260186456256
>
> So how does a paint job cause a crash exactly? AND SHOW YOUR WORK!

Well they could have flutter. That is why you must be licensed to
paint an aircraft. How much paint you put on the leading and trailing
1/2s of a flight control can be life or death. I read somewhere that
the leading cause of death of test pilots testing out homebuilts is
flutter.

-Robert

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Robert M. Gary" > wrote in news:889552fd-d38c-4193-807d-
:

> On Nov 25, 10:03 am, "Darkwing" <theducksmailATyahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260186455587
>>
>> >http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260186456256
>>
>> So how does a paint job cause a crash exactly? AND SHOW YOUR WORK!
>
> Well they could have flutter. That is why you must be licensed to
> paint an aircraft. How much paint you put on the leading and trailing
> 1/2s of a flight control can be life or death. I read somewhere that
> the leading cause of death of test pilots testing out homebuilts is
> flutter.
>

The paint thing is correct, but the homebuilt thing probably isn't.
I've been in the EAA for a looooong time and I can only think of a handfull
of accidents caused by flutter.
More often is something as pedestrian as a fuel plumbing problem or control
jam.


Bertie

[Vaughn Simon]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .

>>
>> So how does a paint job cause a crash exactly? AND SHOW YOUR WORK!
>>
>
> Well, one way is not to balance the flight controls after a repaint. I know
> of one Bonanza lost that way.

And at least one Grob.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=ATL96FA123&rpt=fi

The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of
this accident as follows.

failure of maintenance personnel to rebalance the flight controls after the
airplane had been repainted, which resulted in rudder flutter and in-flight
breakup of the airplane.


Vaughn

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Vaughn Simon" > wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>
>>>
>>> So how does a paint job cause a crash exactly? AND SHOW YOUR WORK!
>>>
>>
>> Well, one way is not to balance the flight controls after a repaint.
>> I know of one Bonanza lost that way.
>
> And at least one Grob.
> http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=ATL96FA123&rpt=fi
>

Yeah I remember that one.

> The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable
> cause(s) of this accident as follows.
>
> failure of maintenance personnel to rebalance the flight controls
> after the airplane had been repainted, which resulted in rudder
> flutter and in-flight breakup of the airplane.
>

It's happened to a few homebuilts, but not that many. Most builders are
very much aware of the need for balance, especialy the guys making these
rocket ships that are aailabl ethese days, but thankfully it;s still a
relatively rare occurance.


Bertie

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Darkwing" <> wrote

> So how does a paint job cause a crash exactly? AND SHOW YOUR WORK!

That was not the reason they discontinued the paint scheme, and repainted
all of the ones that were painted like that.

It was superstition on the public's part. It was said to look like a
Chinese funeral banner, whatever that means.

It is like the Asian preference for color of paint on limos. A white limo
is said to have bad luck, or represent death, or something like that, or did
I get the colors backwards.

Anyway, the superstition runs deep in that neck of the woods.
--
Jim in NC

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote

> The paint thing is correct, but the homebuilt thing probably isn't.
> I've been in the EAA for a looooong time and I can only think of a
> handfull
> of accidents caused by flutter.
> More often is something as pedestrian as a fuel plumbing problem or
> control
> jam.

I gotta agree with that. Loss of power is tops, I think, be it fuel, or
other causes.

Amazing that some people so not do the thing about putting it in climb
attitude, and doing a full power run up for a few minutes, to see if it will
flow fuel and keep other things working right in a simulated climb. Common
sense would dictate that step before attempting a first flight, to me.

I know, let MX test it out on his simulator, to see if everything is going
to keep the suck squeeze bang blow operation going smoothly. <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Ron Wanttaja]

On Sun, 25 Nov 2007 22:48:26 -0500, "Morgans" > wrote:

>
> "Darkwing" <> wrote
>
> > So how does a paint job cause a crash exactly? AND SHOW YOUR WORK!
>
> That was not the reason they discontinued the paint scheme, and repainted
> all of the ones that were painted like that.
>
> It was superstition on the public's part. It was said to look like a
> Chinese funeral banner, whatever that means.

According to Wikipedia, only one other plane was painted like the accident one,
another 747-400. With all the publicity about the crash, and photos splashed
about showing how the plane had been painted, I'm not surprised Singapore
repainted the remaining one.

But as you say, it wasn't the cause of the crash.

Ron Wanttaja

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Morgans" > wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote
>
>> The paint thing is correct, but the homebuilt thing probably isn't.
>> I've been in the EAA for a looooong time and I can only think of a
>> handfull
>> of accidents caused by flutter.
>> More often is something as pedestrian as a fuel plumbing problem or
>> control
>> jam.
>
> I gotta agree with that. Loss of power is tops, I think, be it fuel,
> or other causes.
>
> Amazing that some people so not do the thing about putting it in climb
> attitude, and doing a full power run up for a few minutes, to see if
> it will flow fuel and keep other things working right in a simulated
> climb. Common sense would dictate that step before attempting a first
> flight, to me.


Well, icertainly woulod anyway, even then, power would be my number one
concern. Anything high sped would happen waaaay up as well. actually, all
testing will if I ever get mine done.
>
> I know, let MX test it out on his simulator, to see if everything is
> going to keep the suck squeeze bang blow operation going smoothly. <g>

Doh! Why didn't I think of that.

Bertie