Star Telegram article on low-time airline pilots

[Gatt]

http://www.star-telegram.com/business/story/322928.html

"Airline executives say recruiting less experienced pilots is necessary
because the pool of applicants is shrinking while demand for pilots grows."

"A starting pilot at Trans States, a regional airline that flies for
American under the name American Connection, earns $22 a flight hour, with
74 hours guaranteed a month, according to AirlinePilotCentral.com, which
tracks pilot salaries. That translates to an annual starting salary of
$19,500. A pilot flying 1,000 hours a year -- the most allowed under federal
rules -- would earn about $22,000."



Now...call me kookie; I don't have an MBA or anything, but when the average
starting pilot makes less per year than the average Greyhound or city bus
driver, not to mention the average airline employee--when the pilot's salary
is less than that that of the 22-year-old child care provider watching their
kid--gee, I *just can't think of any reason* why they can't find qualified
pilots anymore.

Maybe these freakin' Einsteins the airlines pay out the ass to make
executive and compensation decisions can fly the airplanes for them in order
to prove who's worth what and whether it's the pilots or executives that are
most important to airline operations.

America's corporate business community continues to reap what it sows. The
executives will make tons of money, the pilots will get their pensions
robbed or get laid off, the airlines will beg the taxpayers for bailouts,
America's best pilots will go work for overseas competitors, and passengers
will continue to bitch about airfares.

-c

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Gatt wrote:
> http://www.star-telegram.com/business/story/322928.html
>
> "Airline executives say recruiting less experienced pilots is necessary
> because the pool of applicants is shrinking while demand for pilots grows."
>
> "A starting pilot at Trans States, a regional airline that flies for
> American under the name American Connection, earns $22 a flight hour, with
> 74 hours guaranteed a month, according to AirlinePilotCentral.com, which
> tracks pilot salaries. That translates to an annual starting salary of
> $19,500. A pilot flying 1,000 hours a year -- the most allowed under federal
> rules -- would earn about $22,000."
>
>
>
> Now...call me kookie; I don't have an MBA or anything, but when the average
> starting pilot makes less per year than the average Greyhound or city bus
> driver, not to mention the average airline employee--when the pilot's salary
> is less than that that of the 22-year-old child care provider watching their
> kid--gee, I *just can't think of any reason* why they can't find qualified
> pilots anymore.
>
> Maybe these freakin' Einsteins the airlines pay out the ass to make
> executive and compensation decisions can fly the airplanes for them in order
> to prove who's worth what and whether it's the pilots or executives that are
> most important to airline operations.
>
> America's corporate business community continues to reap what it sows. The
> executives will make tons of money, the pilots will get their pensions
> robbed or get laid off, the airlines will beg the taxpayers for bailouts,
> America's best pilots will go work for overseas competitors, and passengers
> will continue to bitch about airfares.
>
> -c
>
>
Are these airline management people NUTS? 22K based on a simple 40 hr
work week at Mac Donald's comes out to $9.61 an hr. Hell, even
MacDonald's pays the guy who bags the French Fries batter than this!!
(The "batter" was a typo but I liked the pun :-)

And the airline CEO's up in the front office are making WHAT???

Hell...... this makes me want to come out of retirement and start flying
again....and I mean TODAY!!! WHAT A DEAL!!!!

--
Dudley Henriques

[Gatt]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
...


> And the airline CEO's up in the front office are making WHAT???

Well, Dudley, you might not want to start a new career in aviation
management because according to Forbes, they're "relative paupers":

"For proof, take a look at the airline sector, where CEOs are relative
paupers. Southwest Airlines CEO James Parker, AMR CEO Gerald Arpey and UAL
CEO Glenn Tilton each earned less than $1 million in 2003"

They earned less than a million in 2003, and if it wasn't for those guys,
those planes would never get off the ground. ...oh, wait.

-c

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Gatt wrote:
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>
>> And the airline CEO's up in the front office are making WHAT???
>
> Well, Dudley, you might not want to start a new career in aviation
> management because according to Forbes, they're "relative paupers":
>
> "For proof, take a look at the airline sector, where CEOs are relative
> paupers. Southwest Airlines CEO James Parker, AMR CEO Gerald Arpey and UAL
> CEO Glenn Tilton each earned less than $1 million in 2003"
>
> They earned less than a million in 2003, and if it wasn't for those guys,
> those planes would never get off the ground. ...oh, wait.
>
> -c
>
>
>
>
Fortunately for me, my career in aviation went another route away from
the majors and I never had to deal with these issues.
I did however have a student of mine call me one day to announce he had
just gotten a left seat ride for United. He told me what the salary was
and I can tell you for sure it was a whole lot better than 22K a year.
But like a lot of other big money boys, he also is "retired now".


--
Dudley Henriques

[F. Baum]

On Nov 26, 11:09 am, Dudley Henriques > wrote:

>
> Are these airline management people NUTS? 22K based on a simple 40 hr
> work week at Mac Donald's comes out to $9.61 an hr. Hell, even
> MacDonald's pays the guy who bags the French Fries batter than this!!
> (The "batter" was a typo but I liked the pun :-)

You and Gatt hit the nail with this one.20 years ago at the commuters
it was the same situation. NASA did a survey
and found that 20% of airline pilots under the age of 40 were
planning to leave the industry. It is fun to joke but we do have to
wonder what it will be like when the airlines stop attracting
dedicated people.

> And the airline CEO's up in the front office are making WHAT???

1500% more since 1990.
>
F Baum

[Gatt]

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
...
>
> I did however have a student of mine call me one day to announce he had
> just gotten a left seat ride for United. He told me what the salary was
> and I can tell you for sure it was a whole lot better than 22K a year.
> But like a lot of other big money boys, he also is "retired now".

I hope they didn't plunder his pension like they did my dad's. He worked
for UAL for 24 years...was UAL-PDX employee of the year something like three
times...before they "furloughed" him forever.

('Course, my dad was making more than 22K a year in 1980 making sure Grannie
Pax got her special diabetic in-flight meal.)

-c

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> Fortunately for me, my career in aviation went another route away from
> the majors and I never had to deal with these issues.
> I did however have a student of mine call me one day to announce he had
> just gotten a left seat ride for United. He told me what the salary was
> and I can tell you for sure it was a whole lot better than 22K a year.
> But like a lot of other big money boys, he also is "retired now".


When people ask me about the money available to pilots, I always explain it in
terms of professional baseball. Every kid on the corner dreams of the glory and
the money of being a professional player with the attending money and perks.
Unfortunately there are only so many teams and so many slots on those teams.
And for everybody who makes it, there are a 1000 guys left in the sandlot.

Even if you do make it to the majors, you have to survive the minors to get
there.... years of required high performance with very little reward. Back when
I came closest to achieving the dream, the most money I ever made was
$1000/month paid under the table to work as a freight dog flying five days a
week in any weather in equipment not certified for icing conditions. I loved
the flying most days. Sometimes I was terrified. But I always starved.

For the guys who make it, it's great. Everybody else suffers. It's good to
know the present generation is getting screwed over as well as the past one was.



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Gatt wrote:
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> ...
>> I did however have a student of mine call me one day to announce he had
>> just gotten a left seat ride for United. He told me what the salary was
>> and I can tell you for sure it was a whole lot better than 22K a year.
>> But like a lot of other big money boys, he also is "retired now".
>
> I hope they didn't plunder his pension like they did my dad's. He worked
> for UAL for 24 years...was UAL-PDX employee of the year something like three
> times...before they "furloughed" him forever.
>
> ('Course, my dad was making more than 22K a year in 1980 making sure Grannie
> Pax got her special diabetic in-flight meal.)
>
> -c
>
>
He got something out of it but we don't discuss it much, especially when
his wife's around. She definitely didn't like the deal :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Gatt" > wrote in
:

> http://www.star-telegram.com/business/story/322928.html
>
> "Airline executives say recruiting less experienced pilots is
> necessary because the pool of applicants is shrinking while demand for
> pilots grows."
>


That's because you spend umptee tens of thousands on a licence that is
rapidly becomng about as valuable as a french frying licence.


I advise people against getting into aviation as a profession these days.
WTF for? so you can eat lettuce burgers and hope Pan Am returns?

Bertie
>
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"F. Baum" > wrote in news:4020d212-e1ad-4daa-856d-
:

> On Nov 26, 11:09 am, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>
>>
>> Are these airline management people NUTS? 22K based on a simple 40 hr
>> work week at Mac Donald's comes out to $9.61 an hr. Hell, even
>> MacDonald's pays the guy who bags the French Fries batter than this!!
>> (The "batter" was a typo but I liked the pun :-)
>
> You and Gatt hit the nail with this one.20 years ago at the commuters
> it was the same situation. NASA did a survey
> and found that 20% of airline pilots under the age of 40 were
> planning to leave the industry. It is fun to joke but we do have to
> wonder what it will be like when the airlines stop attracting
> dedicated people.
>


The day's already here for some airlines, unfortuately.


Bertie

[Maxwell]

"F. Baum" > wrote in message
...
> On Nov 26, 11:09 am, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>
> You and Gatt hit the nail with this one.20 years ago at the commuters
> it was the same situation. NASA did a survey
> and found that 20% of airline pilots under the age of 40 were
> planning to leave the industry. It is fun to joke but we do have to
> wonder what it will be like when the airlines stop attracting
> dedicated people.
>

Today's cab drivers and convenience store clerks are tomorrows airline
pilots. Shame they can't speak English. The captain's briefing to the
passengers will have to be pre-recorded, or broadcast from a ground station.

[Dylan Smith]

On 2007-11-26, Gatt > wrote:
> Now...call me kookie; I don't have an MBA or anything, but when the average
> starting pilot makes less per year than the average Greyhound or city bus
> driver, not to mention the average airline employee--when the pilot's salary
> is less than that that of the 22-year-old child care provider watching their
> kid--gee, I *just can't think of any reason* why they can't find qualified
> pilots anymore.

The airlines complain too much. The reason they can pay new airline
pilots so little is precisely due to supply and demand. They say there
is a pilot shortage, but pilot shortage really means only 50 applicants
for each job, not 500. People who want to be airline pilots by and large
have a passion for flight, and will practically do it for free.

The only reason pilots for majors get paid lots is again, supply and
demand. Since the pool of available pilots once you get to the higher
end of the food chain is dramatically smaller than it is for the entry
level jobs, they are forced to pay a decent salary.

The reason that starting pilots in other countries typically get paid
more, is lacking such a large general aviation sector, the supply of
pilots genuinely is a lot tighter, so they have to pay more to attract
people into the business.

--
From the sunny Isle of Man.
Yes, the Reply-To email address is valid.

[Mxsmanic]

Gatt writes:

> Now...call me kookie; I don't have an MBA or anything, but when the average
> starting pilot makes less per year than the average Greyhound or city bus
> driver, not to mention the average airline employee--when the pilot's salary
> is less than that that of the 22-year-old child care provider watching their
> kid--gee, I *just can't think of any reason* why they can't find qualified
> pilots anymore.

In the old days, perhaps they could depend on finding people who loved flying
so much that they'd fly for any salary. People like that are probably much
rarer now than they were in the past.

[Mxsmanic]

Maxwell writes:

> Today's cab drivers and convenience store clerks are tomorrows airline
> pilots. Shame they can't speak English. The captain's briefing to the
> passengers will have to be pre-recorded, or broadcast from a ground station.

I suppose you're being sarcastic, but there is more truth in this than you
might care to believe.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Gatt writes:
>
>> Now...call me kookie; I don't have an MBA or anything, but when the
>> average starting pilot makes less per year than the average Greyhound
>> or city bus driver, not to mention the average airline employee--when
>> the pilot's salary is less than that that of the 22-year-old child
>> care provider watching their kid--gee, I *just can't think of any
>> reason* why they can't find qualified pilots anymore.
>
> In the old days, perhaps they could depend on finding people who loved
> flying so much that they'd fly for any salary. People like that are
> probably much rarer now than they were in the past.


Do you know anything at all?


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Maxwell writes:
>
>> Today's cab drivers and convenience store clerks are tomorrows
>> airline pilots. Shame they can't speak English. The captain's
>> briefing to the passengers will have to be pre-recorded, or broadcast
>> from a ground station.
>
> I suppose you're being sarcastic, but there is more truth in this than
> you might care to believe.
>



How would you know fjukktard?

You have zero exposure to aviation.

Nothing

Less than nothing.


Bertie