If I die...

[Paul Tomblin]

My brother recently lost a friend of his in a diving accident. And my
brother, as a former sailor on the wreck that the accident happened on
(HMCS Cape Breton), a local PADI dive instructor and an expert in deep
diving techniques, had to go in to find the body after the RCMP tried for
two days and couldn't find him. I was reading the forum posts about the
accident, and somebody posted this. With a few substitutions, I could see
this applying to us just as well.

If I should die while diving.

If I should die while diving please do not hesitate to discuss the
incident and assess every element with a view to furthering your
understanding of how to enhance diver safety.

If I should die while diving get the facts. They won't be readily
available and will definitely not be correct as reported by the media. But
get the facts as best you can.

If I should die while diving understand, as I already do, that it will
most likely involve fault on my part to some degree or another so do not
hesitate to point that out.

If I should die while diving some of the fault will probably belong to my
buddy and that needs to be honestly assessed as well though I must admit
this is one area where I hope that compassion will be in the mix.

If I should die while diving there might be those who try to squelch
discussion out of a misplaced notion of respect for the deceased, family
and friends. They can say nice things about me at my funeral... but in the
scuba community I want the incident discussed.

If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
> Which ISPs provide write-only Usenet access?
From the state of Usenet in general? All of them.
-- J.D.Baldwin and Derick Siddoway

[Crash Lander[_1_]]

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.

Poignant words indeed.
The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd "He died
doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the wrong way for
some reason.
Crash Lander
--
Straight and Level Down Under.
http://www.straightandleveldownunder.net/

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Crash Lander wrote:
> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.
>
> Poignant words indeed.
> The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd "He died
> doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the wrong way for
> some reason.
> Crash Lander
The reason for this is complex and is much more deeply rooted in
professional aviation than it is in general aviation as that relates to
pilots who fly for pleasure.
In the professional community, many pilots don't like this sentiment.
First of all, it assumes that the person stating the sentiment knows or
knew the pilot in question well enough to make such a statement and in
almost every instance, this couldn't be further from the truth.
The truth is that most professional pilots, although we love to fly,
live in a world of intense competition and self discipline where just
doing the job right and keeping our necks in one piece takes up much of
the time we could otherwise be spending on "feeling" how wonderful it is
to fly.
If and when one of us buys the farm, it's due to something that went
wrong either with ourselves, our flying environment, and/or our
equipment. In our world, what we do when this happens is come together
like all normal people in aviation do, but you will seldom hear
sentiments like "at least he died doing what he loved to do".
What you will hear as we speak of a crash among ourselves are sentiments
like "Damn shame. What went wrong?"
If you are around professional pilots when a crash occurs, you should
notice an air of silent respect interfaced with straight forward and
pertinent questions.
In our world a crash means something went wrong that needs correcting, NOW!
The "he died with his boots on" thing just isn't our cup of tea, at
least for the pilots I know and have flown with anyway.
I've often said that if something went wrong and I dug a 10 foot hole in
the ground during one of my displays, my friends and associates would be
standing at the rim of the hole in about 30 seconds discussing what
might have gone wrong..and that's the way I would want it to be. I'd
want them to find out ASAP what happened so it didn't happen to someone
else the next day.
That's the way it is in the world of professional aviation.....at least
in my little corner of it anyway. :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Crash Lander" > wrote in
:

> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.
>
> Poignant words indeed.
> The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd "He
> died doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the wrong
> way for some reason.



Well, I hope they don't say it about me.




Bertie

[Tina]

And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts on
your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.



On Dec 5, 10:04 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
> Crash Lander wrote:
> > "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
> >> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.
>
> > Poignant words indeed.
> > The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd "He died
> > doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the wrong way for
> > some reason.
> > Crash Lander
>
> The reason for this is complex and is much more deeply rooted in
> professional aviation than it is in general aviation as that relates to
> pilots who fly for pleasure.
> In the professional community, many pilots don't like this sentiment.
> First of all, it assumes that the person stating the sentiment knows or
> knew the pilot in question well enough to make such a statement and in
> almost every instance, this couldn't be further from the truth.
> The truth is that most professional pilots, although we love to fly,
> live in a world of intense competition and self discipline where just
> doing the job right and keeping our necks in one piece takes up much of
> the time we could otherwise be spending on "feeling" how wonderful it is
> to fly.
> If and when one of us buys the farm, it's due to something that went
> wrong either with ourselves, our flying environment, and/or our
> equipment. In our world, what we do when this happens is come together
> like all normal people in aviation do, but you will seldom hear
> sentiments like "at least he died doing what he loved to do".
> What you will hear as we speak of a crash among ourselves are sentiments
> like "Damn shame. What went wrong?"
> If you are around professional pilots when a crash occurs, you should
> notice an air of silent respect interfaced with straight forward and
> pertinent questions.
> In our world a crash means something went wrong that needs correcting, NOW!
> The "he died with his boots on" thing just isn't our cup of tea, at
> least for the pilots I know and have flown with anyway.
> I've often said that if something went wrong and I dug a 10 foot hole in
> the ground during one of my displays, my friends and associates would be
> standing at the rim of the hole in about 30 seconds discussing what
> might have gone wrong..and that's the way I would want it to be. I'd
> want them to find out ASAP what happened so it didn't happen to someone
> else the next day.
> That's the way it is in the world of professional aviation.....at least
> in my little corner of it anyway. :-)
>
> --
> Dudley Henriques

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Crash Lander wrote:
> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.
>
> Poignant words indeed.
> The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd "He died
> doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the wrong way for
> some reason.


Screw them. Doesn't make the words false.




--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Mortimer Schnerd, RN[_2_]]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> The reason for this is complex and is much more deeply rooted in
> professional aviation than it is in general aviation as that relates to
> pilots who fly for pleasure.
> In the professional community, many pilots don't like this sentiment.
> First of all, it assumes that the person stating the sentiment knows or
> knew the pilot in question well enough to make such a statement and in
> almost every instance, this couldn't be further from the truth.


Well, first I posted a rather brusque response and then I read what you'd said.
I've almost died twice in my life: once cave diving (oddly enough for this
thread) and once in an airplane. I'd rather have a few seconds of terror
followed by the deep peace that comes with acceptance of impending death than to
sit in a nursing home waiting for my cancer to eat me alive.

So yeah, I'd rather go doing something I enjoyed even if it caused me momentary
pain. The alternatives aren't attractive. I used to joke that I hoped I would
go out at the hands of a jealous husband but I believe the window of opportunity
has slammed shut on me. Now the best I can hope for is to go in my sleep. Or
doing something I enjoy....

I would fully expect folks to discuss and dissect such an event. And I'd hope
others could learn something that might help them avoid a similar fate...



--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN
mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com

[Todd W. Deckard]

Paul,

it has always been a sore spot with me when the local coffee pot squadron
(or the usenet) folks
begin a spirited debate on a fresh accident that involves a fatality. I
believe the issue for me is the
timing and raw speculation proceeding real data.

In an effort to pave the way for aviation commerce the United States had the
foresight to develop an amazing
system to investigate accidents, disseminate any conclusions and make
adjustments in the regulations and
recommended operating procedures in response. Every time I respond to a
controller with the chant "maintain XXXXft until established on a published
portion of the approach" I am reminded of that system. It may not be
perfect, but it
is certainly the model. I *do* believe strongly that studying these
details is a component of our aviation learning
and certainly improve my personal safety. I wish people would sit down
with them in a quiet room and read them in the spirit of "there but for the
grace of God go I ..."

It is a fresh subject for me as I was an a recent pilot gathering and
everyone wanted to speculate about Dr. Mayo and the Faribault accident.
For my part I wanted to shout, there were two teenagers killed, and for all
you know a friend or relative is within earshot. Furthermore I doubt the
combined experience of the audience added up to his total flight hours --
that is what really chapped me.

There is something ignoble about the sense of gravitas and authority that
people assume with these things.
Its like the NASCAR crowd (the smallest component) that want something
dramatic to happen to fill some kind of Walter-Mitty void in their lives.
Some of the skydiving crowd really gave me the creeps in this regard.

Your posted "will and testament" is a noble one.

For my part, if I am killed flying -- come to my funeral and say something
nice -- if someone from the media asks you a question please don't say "he
was such a careful pilot" -- and later if the circumstances strike a nerve
then please delve into the accident details and conclusions offered by the
professionals. And if seeing my mistake spares you, then I'll congradulate
you in Heaven.

But if some nerd (wearing a sport's pilot shirt with epaulets his mother
sew'd on) runs to his computer 10 minutes after my accident I'll haunt you
from my grave.

Hah!
Todd

"Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
...
> If I should die while diving.
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in
:

> Crash Lander wrote:
>> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
>> ...
>>> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.
>>
>> Poignant words indeed.
>> The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd
>> "He died doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the
>> wrong way for some reason.
>
>
> Screw them. Doesn't make the words false.


I think it does...

Well, maybe not false, but they don't ring true and they're zero
consolation.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Todd W. Deckard" > wrote in
:

> Paul,
>
> it has always been a sore spot with me when the local coffee pot
> squadron (or the usenet) folks
> begin a spirited debate on a fresh accident that involves a fatality.
> I believe the issue for me is the
> timing and raw speculation proceeding real data.
>
> In an effort to pave the way for aviation commerce the United States
> had the foresight to develop an amazing
> system to investigate accidents, disseminate any conclusions and make
> adjustments in the regulations and
> recommended operating procedures in response. Every time I respond
> to a controller with the chant "maintain XXXXft until established on a
> published portion of the approach" I am reminded of that system. It
> may not be perfect, but it
> is certainly the model. I *do* believe strongly that studying these
> details is a component of our aviation learning
> and certainly improve my personal safety. I wish people would sit
> down with them in a quiet room and read them in the spirit of "there
> but for the grace of God go I ..."
>
> It is a fresh subject for me as I was an a recent pilot gathering and
> everyone wanted to speculate about Dr. Mayo and the Faribault
> accident. For my part I wanted to shout, there were two teenagers
> killed, and for all you know a friend or relative is within earshot.
> Furthermore I doubt the combined experience of the audience added up
> to his total flight hours -- that is what really chapped me.
>
> There is something ignoble about the sense of gravitas and authority
> that people assume with these things.
> Its like the NASCAR crowd (the smallest component) that want something
> dramatic to happen to fill some kind of Walter-Mitty void in their
> lives. Some of the skydiving crowd really gave me the creeps in this
> regard.
>
> Your posted "will and testament" is a noble one.
>
> For my part, if I am killed flying -- come to my funeral and say
> something nice -- if someone from the media asks you a question please
> don't say "he was such a careful pilot" -- and later if the
> circumstances strike a nerve then please delve into the accident
> details and conclusions offered by the professionals. And if seeing
> my mistake spares you, then I'll congradulate you in Heaven.
>
> But if some nerd (wearing a sport's pilot shirt with epaulets his
> mother sew'd on) runs to his computer 10 minutes after my accident
> I'll haunt you from my grave.


Hear hear.


Bertie

[Paul Tomblin]

In a previous article, "Todd W. Deckard" > said:
>Your posted "will and testament" is a noble one.
>
>For my part, if I am killed flying -- come to my funeral and say something
>nice -- if someone from the media asks you a question please don't say "he
>was such a careful pilot" -- and later if the circumstances strike a nerve
>then please delve into the accident details and conclusions offered by the
>professionals. And if seeing my mistake spares you, then I'll congradulate
>you in Heaven.

It struck a nerve with me because two friends died in their float plane
this summer, a few weeks after one of them had allowed me to make some
take-offs and landings in that very same plane. I went to the memorials,
and we celebrated their lives of exhuberance and joy, and told the widows
how much we missed them and what great guys they both were. Then the
pilots stood around and said "how the hell did that happen"? Those
thoughts aren't to be shared with outsiders, but I think it's something we
need to do, for ourselves and for others.

--
Paul Tomblin > http://blog.xcski.com/
Is it so difficult to master your bloody pride and admit that yes, a bunch
of hackers turned out a better suite of utilities than your teams of
engineers ever could? -- Robert Uhl

[Gig 601XL Builder]

Paul Tomblin wrote:
> My brother recently lost a friend of his in a diving accident. And my
> brother, as a former sailor on the wreck that the accident happened on
> (HMCS Cape Breton), a local PADI dive instructor and an expert in deep
> diving techniques, had to go in to find the body after the RCMP tried
> for two days and couldn't find him. I was reading the forum posts
> about the accident, and somebody posted this. With a few
> substitutions, I could see this applying to us just as well.
>

Excellent idea that we all should think about duplicating.

One thing I thought about after the Challenger exploded and the space
program was shutdown for years was if I had been an astronaut my wife would
have a tape to release to the media with a speech saying, in a nut shell, "I
knew this was dangerous and thought it was worth the risk. Please don't let
my death be used as an excuse to cease or even slow man's exploration of
space."

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "Tina" == Tina > writes:

Tina> And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's
Tina> thoughts on your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy
Tina> and awe.

I have not, but for some time have enjoyed W.B. Yeats thoughts too. It
helps to know that this was written around WWI and that the Irish,
like other members of the UK, have no love for the English.

An Irish Airman Foresees His Death
W.B. Yeats

I know that I shall meet my fate
Somewhere among the clouds above;
Those that I fight I do not hate,
Those that I guard I do not love;
My country is Kiltartan Cross,
My countrymen Kiltartan's poor,
No likely end could bring them loss
Or leave them happier than before.
Nor law, nor duty bade me fight,
Nor public men, nor cheering crowds,
A lonely impulse of delight
Drove to this tumult in the clouds;
I balanced all, brought all to mind,
The years to come seemed waste of breath,
A waste of breath the years behind
In balance with this life, this death.

--
It is part of the general pattern of misguided policy that our country
is now geared to an arms economy which was bred in an artificially
induced psychosis of war hysteria and nurtured upon an incessant
propaganda of fear.
~ General Douglas MacArthur

[Jay Honeck]

> An Irish Airman Foresees His Death
> W.B. Yeats

Outstanding!

I never thought I'd see the day when I would read my old friend Yeats
in a thread on this newsgroup...

Better knock it off -- If this keeps up we pilots will soon be accused
of having some culture and class...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Jay Honeck]

> I went to the memorials,
> and we celebrated their lives of exhuberance and joy, and told the widows
> how much we missed them and what great guys they both were. Then the
> pilots stood around and said "how the hell did that happen"? Those
> thoughts aren't to be shared with outsiders, but I think it's something we
> need to do, for ourselves and for others.

I've had the misfortune of attending two memorials for lost pilot
friends during 2007. One was for a middle-aged couple who died
together, leaving only grieving, elderly parents and friends, while
the other was for a young father of two little kids, and an infant.

The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing something
they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no dependents, so their
fate was truly their own. Although death came to them too soon, it
seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to so many alternatives.

At the latter memorial, NO ONE said those words, as they would have
sounded cold and empty to the young widow and orphans. The horror of
the situation, the stark loss for the family, and the finality of the
event weighed heavily on all of us, and all we could think of --
silently -- was "What the hell happened?"

The manner of ones death matters mostly to the victim. For the
survivors, timing is everything.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

On Dec 6, 7:38 am, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com>
wrote:
> I'd rather have a few seconds of terror
> followed by the deep peace that comes
> with acceptance of impending death than to
> sit in a nursing home waiting for my cancer to eat me alive.

Your comparison completely ignores the decades of life that are likely
lost in a fatal plane crash (on average, crash victims are decades
younger than the life expectancy for adults). Surely that loss far
outweighs any preference one might have concerning the manner of death
itself.

[Al G[_1_]]

"Crash Lander" > wrote in message
...
> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
>> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.
>
> Poignant words indeed.
> The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd "He
> died doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the wrong way
> for some reason.
> Crash Lander
> --
> Straight and Level Down Under.
> http://www.straightandleveldownunder.net/
>

It is one thing to die while flying. Quite another to kill
yourself/others while flying.

Al G

[Shirl]

Jay Honeck > wrote:
> The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
> everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing something
> they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no dependents, so their
> fate was truly their own. Although death came to them too soon, it
> seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to so many alternatives.

Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The woman
was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted that she
died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the time -- being a
young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that statement at all. It
sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older and a pilot myself, I
understand it.

I don't find it wrong or offensive to say that when a person dies doing
something they love. IMO, it shouldn't be interpreted to mean that they
*chose* to go that way or that it's okay with you that you lost them
because they were doing something they loved. But as you said, compared
to some of the alternatives, going while doing something you love may be
of *some* comfort to *some* survivors.

But I agree with you--the perspective from the victim's viewpoint vs.
from the survivor's viewpoint may be very different. What/Who they leave
behind, and in what situations, can make it easier or harder to relate
to those statements...and there are a gazillion of them, made after a
death, that rub people the wrong way even though not meant to. I always
cringe when you inform someone of a death and they ask, "How old was
he/she?" ... as if it's *less* of a loss to loved ones if the person was
65 vs. 45.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in
:


>
> Well, first I posted a rather brusque response and then I read what
> you'd said. I've almost died twice in my life: once cave diving (oddly
> enough for this thread) and once in an airplane. I'd rather have a
> few seconds of terror followed by the deep peace that comes with
> acceptance of impending death than to sit in a nursing home waiting
> for my cancer to eat me alive.

Well, then do us a favor and jump in front of a bus rather than take a
perfectly good airplane with you.


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
:

> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>> The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
>> everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing something
>> they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no dependents, so their
>> fate was truly their own. Although death came to them too soon, it
>> seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to so many alternatives.
>
> Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The woman
> was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted that she
> died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the time -- being a
> young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that statement at all. It
> sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older and a pilot myself, I
> understand it.
>
I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..





Bertie

[Jose]

> and the husband said he was comforted that she
> died doing something she loved.

A quibble wit the subject line: It shouldn't be "If I die", but "=when=
I die".

Apropos of that, I'd like people to recall not that "at least he =died=
doing something he loved", rather "at least he =did= something he loved".

Actually, I'd rather hear "look, he's moving!".

And not have that followed by "shoot him again!"

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[John Mazor[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
> :
>
>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>> The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
>>> everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing something
>>> they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no dependents, so their
>>> fate was truly their own. Although death came to them too soon, it
>>> seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to so many alternatives.
>>
>> Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The woman
>> was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted that she
>> died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the time -- being a
>> young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that statement at all. It
>> sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older and a pilot myself, I
>> understand it.
>>
> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..

Ditto, but on my 100th birthday, of course.

[Shirl]

Shirl:
> > Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The woman
> > was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted that she
> > died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the time -- being a
> > young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that statement at all. It
> > sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older and a pilot myself, I
> > understand it.

Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..

;-) You guys are a riot...you and Jose.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"John Mazor" > wrote in
news:%GV5j.5654$gi7.1190@trnddc04:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
>> :
>>
>>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>>> The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
>>>> everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing
>>>> something they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no
>>>> dependents, so their fate was truly their own. Although death came
>>>> to them too soon, it seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to
>>>> so many alternatives.
>>>
>>> Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The
>>> woman was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted
>>> that she died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the
>>> time -- being a young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that
>>> statement at all. It sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older
>>> and a pilot myself, I understand it.
>>>
>> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..
>
> Ditto, but on my 100th birthday, of course.
>

And more than one husband , if possible.


Bertie
>
>

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Shirl > wrote in
:

> Shirl:
>> > Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The
>> > woman was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted
>> > that she died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the
>> > time -- being a young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that
>> > statement at all. It sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older
>> > and a pilot myself, I understand it.
>
> Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
>> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..
>
> ;-) You guys are a riot...you and Jose.
>


Thenkew.


Bertie

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Tina wrote:
> And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts on
> your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.

I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
beginning to recite "High Flight" during a pre-show brief of the
Thunderbirds or Blue Angels, or at a meeting at NAFEC discussing why the
#619 engine test bed F14 Tomcat was just lost as it spun into the bay.
I'm wondering just how long I would have lived had I taxied out to do a
low altitude display in one of our airplanes thinking to myself how
wonderful it was just to be allowed to experience the joys of flight.
I'm wondering if an airline pilot friend of mine who is flying today is
sitting up there in the cockpit enjoying the world going by, or thinking
about the approach he has to make in the next 30 minutes.

I once sat in on a meeting with about 10 combat veterans, all fighter
pilots, all aces, some several times over. The discussion was about
survival in the combat arena.
Probably the single most talked about factor in that meeting was the
mental attitude of new pilots going into combat for the first time.
The guys all agreed that most pilots going through the training program
bring into the program with them, a feeling of high emotion concerning
flying and wanting to fly. Almost to an individual, these newbies are
flushed with the "excitement" and "wonder" of being one of the "lucky
ones" accepted to flight training after fierce competition to get there.

All the veterans agreed that probably the first thing that had to be
accomplished with these newbies was to purge all that emotional feeling
out of their systems; the sooner the better.

There was and still is a critical reason for this.

When you choose to fly airplanes for a living or fly airplanes in any
high risk or extended exposure professional environment, the scenario
involving the "emotional approach" to flying is best left on the ground
if you intend living for any length of time in this environment.
The long and short of it is that in the professional cockpit, there's
little room for the "High Flight" types. The professional pilot has much
more important things to be concerned with.
As for the fighter pilots; it was the general consensus of the people in
that meeting that the newbies flying into combat who were still enamored
with their "wonder of it all" feelings about actually being there and
involved, didn't last very long as a group. In short, they were the ones
who got themselves killed early on after deployment into operational
squadrons.
All this I'm saying here doesn't mean that pilots like myself are cold
and hard and that we don't feel things as other people do. What it means
is that we might look at flying a bit differently than the average
pleasure pilot.
I happen to have a copy of High Flight hanging on the wall here in the
den. I actually know people who knew the Magees in South Africa. The
poem is a beautiful sentiment, but for pilots like myself, it's a
private sentiment. I don't take things like this to work.
During my years in flying, I've buried 32 of my friends and associates.
It's a tough business where you are allowed emotion, but not at the office!
I can give you a perfect example of what I've been talking about.
I had a friend when I was younger, an ANG fighter pilot. He was killed
flying an F86 Sabre when his engine threw a turbine bucket and exploded.
He stayed with it too long, ejected low and out of the seat envelope and
the chute couldn't deploy. The papers carried the oft used story in
such situations about Jim staying with the airplane to avoid populated
areas thus costing him his life. Even the ANG accident inquiry stated
this as a probable cause of his death.
Understanding that I loved this man, you can imagine how much this
ending to his life meant to me.
Many years later, acting as a flight safety advisor giving a safety
lecture on low altitude emergency bailout, the issue of my friend's
ejection came up in the Q&A.
You can only imagine how difficult it was for me, now having thousands
of hours of experience to stand there and contradict the accident report.
The truth involved with low altitude bailout in high performance jets is
that the pilot involved seldom has the time or even the inclination to
either spot on the ground or attempt to avoid that "school house full of
innocent children" down there. The pilot usually has his hands full
controlling a stricken aircraft while trying to eject in time to save
his own life. The simple fact is that unless the emergency is stable and
the altitude situation dictates that the aircraft can be pointed to a
large obviously open area, the pilot will have little control over
exactly where the aircraft impacts the ground.

In covering these aspects of low altitude ejection, I had to use the
example of my closest friend as a negative example. I had to actually
detract from what had been written about him to present a more
reasonable probable cause.
Knowing Jim, he would have wanted it this way, and this is but one
example of the difference between flying for fun and flying professionally.






--
Dudley Henriques

[Tina]

On an IFR flight plan over PA last summer, maybe about 7000 feet, ATC
gave us permission to deviate. There were canyons of clouds to play
with along our route. My husband uses an airplane the way most use a
car, as a tool, but the pleasure of the moment was there anyhow.

Come on Dudley, you've been there. That's blood, not 100 octane low
lead, in your veins. Even professionals smile. I knew a Pole a long
time ago who flew bombers during WWII from England to Germany, and he
talked about flying along the top surface of cirrus clouds, right at
eye level. Fully alert (there were people around who wanted to kill
him), fully involved, and alive enough to remember the moment..




On Dec 6, 12:10 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
> Tina wrote:
> > And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts on
> > your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.
>
> I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
> beginning to recite "High Flight" during a pre-show brief of the
> Thunderbirds or Blue Angels, or at a meeting at NAFEC discussing why the
> #619 engine test bed F14 Tomcat was just lost as it spun into the bay.
> I'm wondering just how long I would have lived had I taxied out to do a
> low altitude display in one of our airplanes thinking to myself how
> wonderful it was just to be allowed to experience the joys of flight.
> I'm wondering if an airline pilot friend of mine who is flying today is
> sitting up there in the cockpit enjoying the world going by, or thinking
> about the approach he has to make in the next 30 minutes.
>
> I once sat in on a meeting with about 10 combat veterans, all fighter
> pilots, all aces, some several times over. The discussion was about
> survival in the combat arena.
> Probably the single most talked about factor in that meeting was the
> mental attitude of new pilots going into combat for the first time.
> The guys all agreed that most pilots going through the training program
> bring into the program with them, a feeling of high emotion concerning
> flying and wanting to fly. Almost to an individual, these newbies are
> flushed with the "excitement" and "wonder" of being one of the "lucky
> ones" accepted to flight training after fierce competition to get there.
>
> All the veterans agreed that probably the first thing that had to be
> accomplished with these newbies was to purge all that emotional feeling
> out of their systems; the sooner the better.
>
> There was and still is a critical reason for this.
>
> When you choose to fly airplanes for a living or fly airplanes in any
> high risk or extended exposure professional environment, the scenario
> involving the "emotional approach" to flying is best left on the ground
> if you intend living for any length of time in this environment.
> The long and short of it is that in the professional cockpit, there's
> little room for the "High Flight" types. The professional pilot has much
> more important things to be concerned with.
> As for the fighter pilots; it was the general consensus of the people in
> that meeting that the newbies flying into combat who were still enamored
> with their "wonder of it all" feelings about actually being there and
> involved, didn't last very long as a group. In short, they were the ones
> who got themselves killed early on after deployment into operational
> squadrons.
> All this I'm saying here doesn't mean that pilots like myself are cold
> and hard and that we don't feel things as other people do. What it means
> is that we might look at flying a bit differently than the average
> pleasure pilot.
> I happen to have a copy of High Flight hanging on the wall here in the
> den. I actually know people who knew the Magees in South Africa. The
> poem is a beautiful sentiment, but for pilots like myself, it's a
> private sentiment. I don't take things like this to work.
> During my years in flying, I've buried 32 of my friends and associates.
> It's a tough business where you are allowed emotion, but not at the office!
> I can give you a perfect example of what I've been talking about.
> I had a friend when I was younger, an ANG fighter pilot. He was killed
> flying an F86 Sabre when his engine threw a turbine bucket and exploded.
> He stayed with it too long, ejected low and out of the seat envelope and
> the chute couldn't deploy. The papers carried the oft used story in
> such situations about Jim staying with the airplane to avoid populated
> areas thus costing him his life. Even the ANG accident inquiry stated
> this as a probable cause of his death.
> Understanding that I loved this man, you can imagine how much this
> ending to his life meant to me.
> Many years later, acting as a flight safety advisor giving a safety
> lecture on low altitude emergency bailout, the issue of my friend's
> ejection came up in the Q&A.
> You can only imagine how difficult it was for me, now having thousands
> of hours of experience to stand there and contradict the accident report.
> The truth involved with low altitude bailout in high performance jets is
> that the pilot involved seldom has the time or even the inclination to
> either spot on the ground or attempt to avoid that "school house full of
> innocent children" down there. The pilot usually has his hands full
> controlling a stricken aircraft while trying to eject in time to save
> his own life. The simple fact is that unless the emergency is stable and
> the altitude situation dictates that the aircraft can be pointed to a
> large obviously open area, the pilot will have little control over
> exactly where the aircraft impacts the ground.
>
> In covering these aspects of low altitude ejection, I had to use the
> example of my closest friend as a negative example. I had to actually
> detract from what had been written about him to present a more
> reasonable probable cause.
> Knowing Jim, he would have wanted it this way, and this is but one
> example of the difference between flying for fun and flying professionally.
>
> --
> Dudley Henriques

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Tina wrote:
>> And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts
>> on your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.
>
> I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
> beginning to recite "High Flight"

Mostly ~I just don't want them to think I ****ed up


Bertie

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Tina wrote:
>>> And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts
>>> on your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.
>> I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
>> beginning to recite "High Flight"
>
> Mostly ~I just don't want them to think I ****ed up
>
>
> Bertie

Fear of failure in front of the peer group while keeping one's
proverbial butt in one piece at the same time.....good multi-tasking and
a highly motivating factor in the survival manual :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Tina wrote:
> On an IFR flight plan over PA last summer, maybe about 7000 feet, ATC
> gave us permission to deviate. There were canyons of clouds to play
> with along our route. My husband uses an airplane the way most use a
> car, as a tool, but the pleasure of the moment was there anyhow.
>
> Come on Dudley, you've been there. That's blood, not 100 octane low
> lead, in your veins. Even professionals smile. I knew a Pole a long
> time ago who flew bombers during WWII from England to Germany, and he
> talked about flying along the top surface of cirrus clouds, right at
> eye level. Fully alert (there were people around who wanted to kill
> him), fully involved, and alive enough to remember the moment..
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 6, 12:10 pm, Dudley Henriques > wrote:
>> Tina wrote:
>>> And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts on
>>> your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.
>> I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
>> beginning to recite "High Flight" during a pre-show brief of the
>> Thunderbirds or Blue Angels, or at a meeting at NAFEC discussing why the
>> #619 engine test bed F14 Tomcat was just lost as it spun into the bay.
>> I'm wondering just how long I would have lived had I taxied out to do a
>> low altitude display in one of our airplanes thinking to myself how
>> wonderful it was just to be allowed to experience the joys of flight.
>> I'm wondering if an airline pilot friend of mine who is flying today is
>> sitting up there in the cockpit enjoying the world going by, or thinking
>> about the approach he has to make in the next 30 minutes.
>>
>> I once sat in on a meeting with about 10 combat veterans, all fighter
>> pilots, all aces, some several times over. The discussion was about
>> survival in the combat arena.
>> Probably the single most talked about factor in that meeting was the
>> mental attitude of new pilots going into combat for the first time.
>> The guys all agreed that most pilots going through the training program
>> bring into the program with them, a feeling of high emotion concerning
>> flying and wanting to fly. Almost to an individual, these newbies are
>> flushed with the "excitement" and "wonder" of being one of the "lucky
>> ones" accepted to flight training after fierce competition to get there.
>>
>> All the veterans agreed that probably the first thing that had to be
>> accomplished with these newbies was to purge all that emotional feeling
>> out of their systems; the sooner the better.
>>
>> There was and still is a critical reason for this.
>>
>> When you choose to fly airplanes for a living or fly airplanes in any
>> high risk or extended exposure professional environment, the scenario
>> involving the "emotional approach" to flying is best left on the ground
>> if you intend living for any length of time in this environment.
>> The long and short of it is that in the professional cockpit, there's
>> little room for the "High Flight" types. The professional pilot has much
>> more important things to be concerned with.
>> As for the fighter pilots; it was the general consensus of the people in
>> that meeting that the newbies flying into combat who were still enamored
>> with their "wonder of it all" feelings about actually being there and
>> involved, didn't last very long as a group. In short, they were the ones
>> who got themselves killed early on after deployment into operational
>> squadrons.
>> All this I'm saying here doesn't mean that pilots like myself are cold
>> and hard and that we don't feel things as other people do. What it means
>> is that we might look at flying a bit differently than the average
>> pleasure pilot.
>> I happen to have a copy of High Flight hanging on the wall here in the
>> den. I actually know people who knew the Magees in South Africa. The
>> poem is a beautiful sentiment, but for pilots like myself, it's a
>> private sentiment. I don't take things like this to work.
>> During my years in flying, I've buried 32 of my friends and associates.
>> It's a tough business where you are allowed emotion, but not at the office!
>> I can give you a perfect example of what I've been talking about.
>> I had a friend when I was younger, an ANG fighter pilot. He was killed
>> flying an F86 Sabre when his engine threw a turbine bucket and exploded.
>> He stayed with it too long, ejected low and out of the seat envelope and
>> the chute couldn't deploy. The papers carried the oft used story in
>> such situations about Jim staying with the airplane to avoid populated
>> areas thus costing him his life. Even the ANG accident inquiry stated
>> this as a probable cause of his death.
>> Understanding that I loved this man, you can imagine how much this
>> ending to his life meant to me.
>> Many years later, acting as a flight safety advisor giving a safety
>> lecture on low altitude emergency bailout, the issue of my friend's
>> ejection came up in the Q&A.
>> You can only imagine how difficult it was for me, now having thousands
>> of hours of experience to stand there and contradict the accident report.
>> The truth involved with low altitude bailout in high performance jets is
>> that the pilot involved seldom has the time or even the inclination to
>> either spot on the ground or attempt to avoid that "school house full of
>> innocent children" down there. The pilot usually has his hands full
>> controlling a stricken aircraft while trying to eject in time to save
>> his own life. The simple fact is that unless the emergency is stable and
>> the altitude situation dictates that the aircraft can be pointed to a
>> large obviously open area, the pilot will have little control over
>> exactly where the aircraft impacts the ground.
>>
>> In covering these aspects of low altitude ejection, I had to use the
>> example of my closest friend as a negative example. I had to actually
>> detract from what had been written about him to present a more
>> reasonable probable cause.
>> Knowing Jim, he would have wanted it this way, and this is but one
>> example of the difference between flying for fun and flying professionally.
>>
>> --
>> Dudley Henriques
>
Be careful not to misread what I'm saying. Professional pilots are
normal people with normal feelings just like everyone else. We just
leave all this on the ground when working. Notice my use of the term
"working" instead of "flying". Highly indicative of what I've been
saying in this thread.

Hey.......I cried when our CAT died for God's sake!!! :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

[John Mazor[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "John Mazor" > wrote in
> news:%GV5j.5654$gi7.1190@trnddc04:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>>>> The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
>>>>> everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing
>>>>> something they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no
>>>>> dependents, so their fate was truly their own. Although death came
>>>>> to them too soon, it seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to
>>>>> so many alternatives.
>>>>
>>>> Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The
>>>> woman was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted
>>>> that she died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the
>>>> time -- being a young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that
>>>> statement at all. It sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older
>>>> and a pilot myself, I understand it.
>>>>
>>> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..
>>
>> Ditto, but on my 100th birthday, of course.
>
> And more than one husband , if possible.

"It was done by twelve of them, with the knife, in the Calais Coach." ("Murder on
the Orient Express")

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Dudley Henriques > wrote in news:ks-
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Tina wrote:
>>>> And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts
>>>> on your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.
>>> I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
>>> beginning to recite "High Flight"
>>
>> Mostly ~I just don't want them to think I ****ed up
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Fear of failure in front of the peer group while keeping one's
> proverbial butt in one piece at the same time.....good multi-tasking and
> a highly motivating factor in the survival manual :-))
>

Plus, I wouldn't be able to kick their asses for trashing me behind my
back!


Bertie

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"John Mazor" > wrote in
news:GLW5j.27278$o_6.9894@trnddc08:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "John Mazor" > wrote in
>> news:%GV5j.5654$gi7.1190@trnddc04:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>> Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
>>>> :
>>>>
>>>>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>>>>> The difference between the two events was striking. In the
>>>>>> former, everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died
>>>>>> doing something they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no
>>>>>> dependents, so their fate was truly their own. Although death
>>>>>> came to them too soon, it seemed almost a noble way to go,
>>>>>> compared to so many alternatives.
>>>>>
>>>>> Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The
>>>>> woman was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted
>>>>> that she died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the
>>>>> time -- being a young wife and mother -- I could not relate to
>>>>> that statement at all. It sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being
>>>>> older and a pilot myself, I understand it.
>>>>>
>>>> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..
>>>
>>> Ditto, but on my 100th birthday, of course.
>>
>> And more than one husband , if possible.
>
> "It was done by twelve of them, with the knife, in the Calais Coach."
> ("Murder on the Orient Express")
>
>
>
>

Bragging again?

Bertie

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Tina wrote:

Tina;

What would I have to do to get you to stop calling me "Mr. Dudley?" :-))
I'm just plain Dudley really.

I will say however that as a child in a Parochial boarding all boys
Military School; with the name Dudley Arthur Henriques the third, by the
time I reached the seventh grade I had to be either the toughest or the
fastest kid in school. Fortunately for me, I was a bit of both :-))


--
Dudley Henriques

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Tina wrote:
>
> Tina;
>
> What would I have to do to get you to stop calling me "Mr. Dudley?" :-))
> I'm just plain Dudley really.

is there a Peanut Dudley as well?


Bertie

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in news:ks-
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Tina wrote:
>>>>> And then, Mr Dudley, there were John Gillespie Magee, Jr's thoughts
>>>>> on your profession. I doubt you've lost that joy and awe.
>>>> I am struck with the humor I envision merely from the thought of
>>>> beginning to recite "High Flight"
>>> Mostly ~I just don't want them to think I ****ed up
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> Fear of failure in front of the peer group while keeping one's
>> proverbial butt in one piece at the same time.....good multi-tasking and
>> a highly motivating factor in the survival manual :-))
>>
>
> Plus, I wouldn't be able to kick their asses for trashing me behind my
> back!
>
>
> Bertie

I always told my buds on the show circuit that if I dug a hole in the
ground and they all came out and started roasting marshmallows on the
fire, I hoped they singed their dingies :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Tina wrote:
>>
>> Tina;
>>
>> What would I have to do to get you to stop calling me "Mr. Dudley?" :-))
>> I'm just plain Dudley really.
>
> is there a Peanut Dudley as well?
>
>
> Bertie

Actually yes. My wife says to tell you that the top of my head would be
the perfect place to put a little M&M stamp. :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Tina wrote:
>>>
>>> Tina;
>>>
>>> What would I have to do to get you to stop calling me "Mr. Dudley?"
>>> :-)) I'm just plain Dudley really.
>>
>> is there a Peanut Dudley as well?
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> Actually yes. My wife says to tell you that the top of my head would
> be the perfect place to put a little M&M stamp. :-)



Oooohkaaay.


Obviously she's a future saint.


Bertie

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Tina wrote:

> Come on Dudley, you've been there. That's blood, not 100 octane low
> lead, in your veins. Even professionals smile.

Actually, for me this would have been 130 octane (if I could find it)
and when my wife got the bill for 180 gallons of that, I can tell you,
she wasn't smiling :-)
--
Dudley Henriques

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Tina wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Tina;
>>>>
>>>> What would I have to do to get you to stop calling me "Mr. Dudley?"
>>>> :-)) I'm just plain Dudley really.
>>> is there a Peanut Dudley as well?
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>> Actually yes. My wife says to tell you that the top of my head would
>> be the perfect place to put a little M&M stamp. :-)
>
>
>
> Oooohkaaay.
>
>
> Obviously she's a future saint.
>
>
> Bertie

You don't know the HALF of that statement :-) Putting up with the likes
of me for 40 years and running, this woman deserves a permanent place in
heaven.

--
Dudley Henriques

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

>
> You don't know the HALF of that statement :-) Putting up with the likes
> of me for 40 years and running, this woman deserves a permanent place in
> heaven.
>
I do not doubt it!

Bertie

[Jim Stewart]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in
> :
>
>> Crash Lander wrote:
>>> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
>>> ...
>>>> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.
>>> Poignant words indeed.
>>> The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd
>>> "He died doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the
>>> wrong way for some reason.
>>
>> Screw them. Doesn't make the words false.
>
>
> I think it does...
>
> Well, maybe not false, but they don't ring true and they're zero
> consolation.

I think all of us would prefer to spend a
long life flying airplanes, riding motorcycles,
having sex, and then die relatively quickly
in bed. I know I would.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Jim Stewart > wrote in news:3OudnZLEyej-
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in
>> :
>>
>>> Crash Lander wrote:
>>>> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
>>>> ...
>>>>> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.
>>>> Poignant words indeed.
>>>> The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd
>>>> "He died doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the
>>>> wrong way for some reason.
>>>
>>> Screw them. Doesn't make the words false.
>>
>>
>> I think it does...
>>
>> Well, maybe not false, but they don't ring true and they're zero
>> consolation.
>
> I think all of us would prefer to spend a
> long life flying airplanes, riding motorcycles,
> having sex, and then die relatively quickly
> in bed. I know I would.



Yeah, but I do find the "Died what he loved doing" just annoys me.

As does the "these things happen for a reason"


Bertie

[Jim Stewart]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Jim Stewart > wrote in news:3OudnZLEyej-
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Crash Lander wrote:
>>>>> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
>>>>> ...
>>>>>> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.
>>>>> Poignant words indeed.
>>>>> The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd
>>>>> "He died doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the
>>>>> wrong way for some reason.
>>>> Screw them. Doesn't make the words false.
>>>
>>> I think it does...
>>>
>>> Well, maybe not false, but they don't ring true and they're zero
>>> consolation.
>> I think all of us would prefer to spend a
>> long life flying airplanes, riding motorcycles,
>> having sex, and then die relatively quickly
>> in bed. I know I would.
>
>
>
> Yeah, but I do find the "Died what he loved doing" just annoys me.
>
> As does the "these things happen for a reason"

Right. Nobody says that when an 18-year old
dies on his motorcycle. I wonder why they
think it appropriate for a 50-60 year old.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Jim Stewart > wrote in
:

>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, but I do find the "Died what he loved doing" just annoys me.
>>
>> As does the "these things happen for a reason"
>
> Right. Nobody says that when an 18-year old
> dies on his motorcycle. I wonder why they
> think it appropriate for a 50-60 year old.
>

People do say that when an 18 YO dies on his motorcycle!

I suppose people just don;t know what to say and so come up with the made
for TV movie cliche that pops into their heads.


Bertie

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Jim Stewart > wrote in
> :
>
>>>
>>> Yeah, but I do find the "Died what he loved doing" just annoys me.
>>>
>>> As does the "these things happen for a reason"
>> Right. Nobody says that when an 18-year old
>> dies on his motorcycle. I wonder why they
>> think it appropriate for a 50-60 year old.
>>
>
> People do say that when an 18 YO dies on his motorcycle!
>
> I suppose people just don;t know what to say and so come up with the made
> for TV movie cliche that pops into their heads.
>
>
> Bertie
>
God only knows I've seen enough death in my day to have seen this
behavior in action, and I've indeed seen it happen many times. Mostly
when I've witnessed it, its involved spectators at air show deaths.
I really think most people are genuine when they use these cliche's,
especially peope who love aviation and are present when these things
happen. I have however seen exceptions to the rule. I in fact decked a
guy out cold at the Cape May Race mess in 71.
I think the average Joe out here just wants to express some sorrow when
these things happen and the words are just not there. In most cases they
realize they are not directly involved and as such really not in the
protocol to say anything at all....but they feel they want to say
something....anything, to express their feelings.
So out it comes....some cliche that even as they say it they realize it
doesn't fit or sound right.
I don't know.....I've been in this business too long I guess. I think I
do understand why it's done. I know I don't do it, and most of the
people I know in aviation don't do it either.
I guess in the end it's just a matter of personal perspective. I tend
not to fault the people who do this for the above reasons unless I know
for a fact that it's disingenuous which is rare. I've been known to let
some people know the facts of life in no uncertain terms at times. My
bad there, but then again, nobody's perfect :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

[Tina]

I am reminded of the story told of Bob Hope. When asked where he'd
like to be buried, he said "Surprise me."

As for death? Take me when I wonderful plans for tomorrow, rather than
when all I have are memories of yesterdays, or no memory at all.



On Dec 6, 1:41 pm, Jim Stewart > wrote:
> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> > "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com> wrote in
> :
>
> >> Crash Lander wrote:
> >>> "Paul Tomblin" > wrote in message
> ...
> >>>> If I should die while diving at least I didn't die in bed.
> >>> Poignant words indeed.
> >>> The last line makes for a fitting replacement for the ever clichéd
> >>> "He died doing what he loved!", which always seems to rub people the
> >>> wrong way for some reason.
>
> >> Screw them. Doesn't make the words false.
>
> > I think it does...
>
> > Well, maybe not false, but they don't ring true and they're zero
> > consolation.
>
> I think all of us would prefer to spend a
> long life flying airplanes, riding motorcycles,
> having sex, and then die relatively quickly
> in bed. I know I would.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Jim Stewart > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, but I do find the "Died what he loved doing" just annoys me.
>>>>
>>>> As does the "these things happen for a reason"
>>> Right. Nobody says that when an 18-year old
>>> dies on his motorcycle. I wonder why they
>>> think it appropriate for a 50-60 year old.
>>>
>>
>> People do say that when an 18 YO dies on his motorcycle!
>>
>> I suppose people just don;t know what to say and so come up with the
>> made for TV movie cliche that pops into their heads.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>>
> God only knows I've seen enough death in my day to have seen this
> behavior in action, and I've indeed seen it happen many times. Mostly
> when I've witnessed it, its involved spectators at air show deaths.
> I really think most people are genuine when they use these cliche's,
> especially peope who love aviation and are present when these things
> happen. I have however seen exceptions to the rule. I in fact decked a
> guy out cold at the Cape May Race mess in 71.
> I think the average Joe out here just wants to express some sorrow
> when these things happen and the words are just not there. In most
> cases they realize they are not directly involved and as such really
> not in the protocol to say anything at all....but they feel they want
> to say something....anything, to express their feelings.
> So out it comes....some cliche that even as they say it they realize
> it doesn't fit or sound right.
> I don't know.....I've been in this business too long I guess. I think
> I do understand why it's done. I know I don't do it, and most of the
> people I know in aviation don't do it either.
> I guess in the end it's just a matter of personal perspective. I tend
> not to fault the people who do this for the above reasons unless I
> know for a fact that it's disingenuous which is rare. I've been known
> to let some people know the facts of life in no uncertain terms at
> times. My bad there, but then again, nobody's perfect :-))
>

Oh I'd agree. it's not somethng you get a lot of practice for.

Still don't want anyone to say "He died what he loved doing" though.
For one thing, I like to do lots of stuff, so it doesn't narow it down
much.

Bertie

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Jim Stewart > wrote in
>>> :
>>>
>>>>> Yeah, but I do find the "Died what he loved doing" just annoys me.
>>>>>
>>>>> As does the "these things happen for a reason"
>>>> Right. Nobody says that when an 18-year old
>>>> dies on his motorcycle. I wonder why they
>>>> think it appropriate for a 50-60 year old.
>>>>
>>> People do say that when an 18 YO dies on his motorcycle!
>>>
>>> I suppose people just don;t know what to say and so come up with the
>>> made for TV movie cliche that pops into their heads.
>>>
>>>
>>> Bertie
>>>
>> God only knows I've seen enough death in my day to have seen this
>> behavior in action, and I've indeed seen it happen many times. Mostly
>> when I've witnessed it, its involved spectators at air show deaths.
>> I really think most people are genuine when they use these cliche's,
>> especially peope who love aviation and are present when these things
>> happen. I have however seen exceptions to the rule. I in fact decked a
>> guy out cold at the Cape May Race mess in 71.
>> I think the average Joe out here just wants to express some sorrow
>> when these things happen and the words are just not there. In most
>> cases they realize they are not directly involved and as such really
>> not in the protocol to say anything at all....but they feel they want
>> to say something....anything, to express their feelings.
>> So out it comes....some cliche that even as they say it they realize
>> it doesn't fit or sound right.
>> I don't know.....I've been in this business too long I guess. I think
>> I do understand why it's done. I know I don't do it, and most of the
>> people I know in aviation don't do it either.
>> I guess in the end it's just a matter of personal perspective. I tend
>> not to fault the people who do this for the above reasons unless I
>> know for a fact that it's disingenuous which is rare. I've been known
>> to let some people know the facts of life in no uncertain terms at
>> times. My bad there, but then again, nobody's perfect :-))
>>
>
> Oh I'd agree. it's not somethng you get a lot of practice for.
>
> Still don't want anyone to say "He died what he loved doing" though.
> For one thing, I like to do lots of stuff, so it doesn't narow it down
> much.
>
> Bertie
>
You're right. It kind of takes on a new meaning when considering that
some people "love" to swim with Great White Sharks.

I actually watched some dumb ass yesterday on a film clip bury himself
under some RR ties at a train station then let a train run over him as
his buds watched and cheered him on. Unbelievable. The sad thing is that
idiots like this aren't really proving how brave they are but how stupid
they are. It's like putting your puss on international TV in front of
the entire world and shouting at the top of your lungs,

"HEY, look at ME!! I'M a f*****g idiot!!! :-)))

--
Dudley Henriques

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:


It's like putting your puss on international TV in front of
> the entire world and shouting at the top of your lungs,
>
> "HEY, look at ME!! I'M a f*****g idiot!!! :-)))
>

Like it? It's exactly what they're doing. I have to admit, an FO I was
flying with recently had Jackass the movie on his laptop and I laughed like
hell at it..
The bit where they put handlebars on a rocket al'a Wiley Coyote was just
brilliant.


Bertie

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
> :
>
>
> It's like putting your puss on international TV in front of
>> the entire world and shouting at the top of your lungs,
>>
>> "HEY, look at ME!! I'M a f*****g idiot!!! :-)))
>>
>
> Like it? It's exactly what they're doing. I have to admit, an FO I was
> flying with recently had Jackass the movie on his laptop and I laughed like
> hell at it..
> The bit where they put handlebars on a rocket al'a Wiley Coyote was just
> brilliant.
>
>
> Bertie
I haven't seen Jackass but I think our son mentioned it a while back.
Crazy people doing suicide stuff??

I still have to give my vote (of course not done on purpose) to the guy
flying that Yak 9 a while back. I think it was Sean Carroll but not
certain. THAT one actually made me wince. :-)

--
Dudley Henriques

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Nomen Nescio wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: Tina >
>
>> I am reminded of the story told of Bob Hope. When asked where he'd
>> like to be buried, he said "Surprise me."
>
> Not for me.
> My Will clearly requests that my "Funeral" will be a dinner, at a favorite
> beach side restaurant for my closest friends during which each will be asked
> to say the most negative thing they can think of about me. After which everyone
> is invited to walk down to the beach where my ashes will be laid out on a table
> in a line. They will then be asked to, collectively and simultaneously, Blow Me.

Just a thought here old buddy, but considering the wind almost always
present on any beach at any time, I'll be amazed if you don't get
"blown" before anybody has a chance to blow you :-))


--
Dudley Henriques

[Peter R.]

On 12/6/2007 3:20:00 PM, Nomen Nescio wrote:

> They will then be asked to, collectively and simultaneously, Blow Me.

Think of the children, man.

--
Peter

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Dudley Henriques > wrote in
:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Dudley Henriques > wrote in
>> :
>>
>>
>> It's like putting your puss on international TV in front of
>>> the entire world and shouting at the top of your lungs,
>>>
>>> "HEY, look at ME!! I'M a f*****g idiot!!! :-)))
>>>
>>
>> Like it? It's exactly what they're doing. I have to admit, an FO I
>> was flying with recently had Jackass the movie on his laptop and I
>> laughed like hell at it..
>> The bit where they put handlebars on a rocket al'a Wiley Coyote was
>> just brilliant.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
> I haven't seen Jackass but I think our son mentioned it a while back.
> Crazy people doing suicide stuff??

Some suicide stuff. For instance, they were blinfolding themselves and
standing in the mniddle of a bullring and then playing chicken with the
bull.
Some of the other stuff is just funny, if a tad uncomfortable for them.
Like getting shot with rubber bullets.


>
> I still have to give my vote (of course not done on purpose) to the
> guy flying that Yak 9 a while back. I think it was Sean Carroll but
> not certain. THAT one actually made me wince. :-)

Yeah, saw it when it was cruising Youtube.. Yipes!

Bertie

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Nomen Nescio wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>
> From: Dudley Henriques >
>
>> Hey.......I cried when our CAT died for God's sake!!! :-)
>
> Always knew there was a human hiding there, somewhere. :)
> The little *******s kinda grow on you, don't they?
>
> Yea.............Me too.
> Every one of them.

That was one of the damn hardest days I ever spent in my entire life. I
never had any idea how much that big fur ball meant to us until I walked
back into the house again after taking him to the vet and realizing he
would never again be there to greet me as he had always been for 15
years of our lives.




--
Dudley Henriques

[Paul Riley]

Hi Dudley,

Been there, done that. Felt just like you did. Cried just like you did, felt
like I had lost my closest friend--and to be honest, I think I did.

THEN, about 6 months later, his twin brother wandered into the yard, adopted
us, and he is still here, 14 years later. We (the vet and I) figure he is
about 17 years old. When he goes, I will feel just as bad as I did before.

They really do get under your skin. And I would not have it any other
way!!!!!

Paul

"Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
...
> Nomen Nescio wrote:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>
>> From: Dudley Henriques >
>>
>>> Hey.......I cried when our CAT died for God's sake!!! :-)
>>
>> Always knew there was a human hiding there, somewhere. :)
>> The little *******s kinda grow on you, don't they?
>>
>> Yea.............Me too.
>> Every one of them.
>
> That was one of the damn hardest days I ever spent in my entire life. I
> never had any idea how much that big fur ball meant to us until I walked
> back into the house again after taking him to the vet and realizing he
> would never again be there to greet me as he had always been for 15 years
> of our lives.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dudley Henriques

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Paul Riley wrote:
> Hi Dudley,
>
> Been there, done that. Felt just like you did. Cried just like you did, felt
> like I had lost my closest friend--and to be honest, I think I did.
>
> THEN, about 6 months later, his twin brother wandered into the yard, adopted
> us, and he is still here, 14 years later. We (the vet and I) figure he is
> about 17 years old. When he goes, I will feel just as bad as I did before.
>
> They really do get under your skin. And I would not have it any other
> way!!!!!
>
> Paul
>
> "Dudley Henriques" > wrote in message
> ...
>> Nomen Nescio wrote:
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>
>>> From: Dudley Henriques >
>>>
>>>> Hey.......I cried when our CAT died for God's sake!!! :-)
>>> Always knew there was a human hiding there, somewhere. :)
>>> The little *******s kinda grow on you, don't they?
>>>
>>> Yea.............Me too.
>>> Every one of them.
>> That was one of the damn hardest days I ever spent in my entire life. I
>> never had any idea how much that big fur ball meant to us until I walked
>> back into the house again after taking him to the vet and realizing he
>> would never again be there to greet me as he had always been for 15 years
>> of our lives.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dudley Henriques
>
>
I think we're their pets instead of the other way around :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

[Rich Ahrens[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
> :
>
>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>> The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
>>> everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing something
>>> they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no dependents, so their
>>> fate was truly their own. Although death came to them too soon, it
>>> seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to so many alternatives.
>> Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The woman
>> was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted that she
>> died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the time -- being a
>> young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that statement at all. It
>> sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older and a pilot myself, I
>> understand it.
>>
> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..

Mrs. Bunyip would be so disappointed to hear this...

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Rich Ahrens > wrote in
ouse.com:

> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>> Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
>> :
>>
>>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>>> The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
>>>> everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing
>>>> something they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no
>>>> dependents, so their fate was truly their own. Although death came
>>>> to them too soon, it seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to
>>>> so many alternatives.
>>> Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The
>>> woman was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted
>>> that she died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the
>>> time -- being a young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that
>>> statement at all. It sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older
>>> and a pilot myself, I understand it.
>>>
>> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..
>
> Mrs. Bunyip would be so disappointed to hear this...
>
If she did a different death would be on the cards.


Bertie

[Matt Whiting]

Dudley Henriques wrote:

> I think we're their pets instead of the other way around :-))

As the saying goes:

"To a dog, you are his best friend"
"To a cat, you are staff!"

Matt

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

"Tina" > wrote in message
...
>I am reminded of the story told of Bob Hope. When asked where he'd
>like to be buried, he said "Surprise me."
>
>As for death? Take me when I wonderful plans for tomorrow, rather than
>when all I have are memories of yesterdays, or no memory at all.



I just don't want to end up like either of my parents...

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate

[Matt Whiting]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
> Tina wrote:
>
> Tina;
>
> What would I have to do to get you to stop calling me "Mr. Dudley?" :-))
> I'm just plain Dudley really.
>
> I will say however that as a child in a Parochial boarding all boys
> Military School; with the name Dudley Arthur Henriques the third, by the
> time I reached the seventh grade I had to be either the toughest or the
> fastest kid in school. Fortunately for me, I was a bit of both :-))

Well, DAH beats DUH, right? :-)

Matt

[Rich Ahrens[_2_]]

Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
> Rich Ahrens > wrote in
> ouse.com:
>
>> Bertie the Bunyip wrote:
>>> Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>>>> The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
>>>>> everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing
>>>>> something they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no
>>>>> dependents, so their fate was truly their own. Although death came
>>>>> to them too soon, it seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to
>>>>> so many alternatives.
>>>> Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The
>>>> woman was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted
>>>> that she died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the
>>>> time -- being a young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that
>>>> statement at all. It sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older
>>>> and a pilot myself, I understand it.
>>>>
>>> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..
>> Mrs. Bunyip would be so disappointed to hear this...
>>
> If she did a different death would be on the cards.

No doubt.

[ManhattanMan]

Dudley Henriques wrote:
>
> Hey.......I cried when our CAT died for God's sake!!! :-)


Over a decade back, our 16 yr old Schnauzer had to be put to sleep. She was
deaf, 75% blind, had several benign tumors, and her brain had turned to
silly putty. Took her to the vet, went into the exam room, they picked her
up, and I felt the melt down coming, told the vet "I wasn't going to do
this!!!"..... Cried like I hadn't cried for fifty years, and kept it up at
least fifteen minutes - the vet just closed the door and left me alone.
Damn, I'm tearing up just writing this..... But the memories -
unforgettable!

Cheers'n beers.. [_])
Don

BTW - when I go, I'd like to keep it going until *I* decide enough is
enough, don't wake me and pull the plug around 0200. Yeah, right..........

[muff528]

> There is something ignoble about the sense of gravitas and authority that
> people assume with these things.
> Its like the NASCAR crowd (the smallest component) that want something
> dramatic to happen to fill some kind of Walter-Mitty void in their lives.
> Some of the skydiving crowd really gave me the creeps in this regard.
>

?!? .......Although most incidents in skydiving usually get a transparent,
clinical examination, most jumpers I know just want to have some fun. Just
about all the facts that are learned are laid out for all to see and
evaluate in terms of their own experiences. Any discovered issues concerning
equipment are usually swiftly and openly discussed and addressed by
manufacturers and riggers......just as judgemental or procedural errors on
the part of the involved jumper(s) are also examined in depth. Usually an
unbroken chain of events leading to a fatality can be derived with
reasonable certainty. I certainly don't know any jumpers who just sit around
and dream of ways to put themselves in risky situations just for the
imagined thrill of it. That is not the same as pushing the envelope in an
informed, experimental way to gain knowledge and to go forward with
technology........even if it's in the name of "fun". Good examples are the
recent youtube videos of the wingsuit jumpers or the guy with the jets and
folding wings. I'm sure that data gained from these "stunts" will reappear
in the future in ways that we haven't imagined yet. Just as the relative
safety that the sport enjoys today was paid for by innovation, good or bad,
and by the deaths of people who were just having fun......not pretending to
be some sort of James Bond. I really mean that most skydivers really do take
the risks very seriously and are intimately knowledgable about their
equipment and limitations..............but we're not doing it to scare
ourselves.. we do it because it's a hoot!

Blue Skies! Black Death!.........NO, scrap that! I'll go with.........Blue
Skies! Black Crotchless Underwear!!.

TP

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

ManhattanMan wrote:
> Dudley Henriques wrote:
>> Hey.......I cried when our CAT died for God's sake!!! :-)
>
>
> Over a decade back, our 16 yr old Schnauzer had to be put to sleep. She was
> deaf, 75% blind, had several benign tumors, and her brain had turned to
> silly putty. Took her to the vet, went into the exam room, they picked her
> up, and I felt the melt down coming, told the vet "I wasn't going to do
> this!!!"..... Cried like I hadn't cried for fifty years, and kept it up at
> least fifteen minutes - the vet just closed the door and left me alone.
> Damn, I'm tearing up just writing this..... But the memories -
> unforgettable!
>
> Cheers'n beers.. [_])
> Don
>
> BTW - when I go, I'd like to keep it going until *I* decide enough is
> enough, don't wake me and pull the plug around 0200. Yeah, right..........
>
>
Somebody once said that pets were the only love money could buy. They
were right.

--
Dudley Henriques

[Stella Starr]

Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
if I had been an astronaut my wife would
> have a tape to release to the media with a speech saying, in a nut shell, "I
> knew this was dangerous and thought it was worth the risk. Please don't let
> my death be used as an excuse to cease or even slow man's exploration of
> space."
>
And don't forget "I don't want anydamnbody filing a lawsuit over my
death. If there's one way I want to be remembered, it's NOT being the
jackpot in the white-trash lottery!"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Stella Starr > wrote in
:

> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> if I had been an astronaut my wife would
>> have a tape to release to the media with a speech saying, in a nut
>> shell, "I knew this was dangerous and thought it was worth the risk.
>> Please don't let my death be used as an excuse to cease or even slow
>> man's exploration of space."
>>
> And don't forget "I don't want anydamnbody filing a lawsuit over my
> death. If there's one way I want to be remembered, it's NOT being the
> jackpot in the white-trash lottery!"
>
>
>

Actually, that I might like, depending..

Maybe I'll go over to McDOnalds when I get old and choke on something.

Bertie

[AJ]

On Dec 6, 10:47 am, wrote:
> On Dec 6, 7:38 am, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I'd rather have a few seconds of terror
> > followed by the deep peace that comes
> > with acceptance of impending death than to
> > sit in a nursing home waiting for my cancer to eat me alive.
>
> Your comparison completely ignores the decades of life that are likely
> lost in a fatal plane crash (on average, crash victims are decades
> younger than the life expectancy for adults). Surely that loss far
> outweighs any preference one might have concerning the manner of death
> itself.

Using Mortimer's example of "sit[ting] in a nursing home waiting for
my cancer to eat me alive," I say death by airplane is better than
death in slow increments anytime. Just as long as I don't take anyone
with me.

[[email protected]]

On Dec 7, 10:14 am, AJ > wrote:
> On Dec 6, 10:47 am, wrote:
> > Your comparison completely ignores the decades of life that are likely
> > lost in a fatal plane crash (on average, crash victims are decades
> > younger than the life expectancy for adults). Surely that loss far
> > outweighs any preference one might have concerning the manner of death
> > itself.
>
> Using Mortimer's example of "sit[ting] in a nursing home waiting for
> my cancer to eat me alive," I say death by airplane is better than
> death in slow increments anytime.

But you're just repeating the same manner-of-death comparison, again
ignoring the far more important consideration that's at stake: the
decades of life that could, if not for the fatal crash, precede the
onset of your eventual slow death (or, just as plausibly, your
eventual instant death while you sleep).

I don't question your preference about how to die (though I don't
share it myself). I do question whether it's desirable to forfeit,
say, 25% or more of your life just to secure a death you like better.

[John Mazor[_2_]]

"Stella Starr" > wrote in message
...
> Gig 601XL Builder wrote:
> if I had been an astronaut my wife would
>> have a tape to release to the media with a speech saying, in a nut shell, "I knew
>> this was dangerous and thought it was worth the risk. Please don't let my death be
>> used as an excuse to cease or even slow man's exploration of space."
> And don't forget "I don't want anydamnbody filing a lawsuit over my death. If
> there's one way I want to be remembered, it's NOT being the jackpot in the
> white-trash lottery!"

Sorry, GetErDone, but you already got the lifetime award for that.

[[email protected]]

On Dec 6, 10:23 am, Bertie the Bunyip > wrote:
> Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
> :
>
> > Jay Honeck > wrote:
> >> The difference between the two events was striking. In the former,
> >> everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died doing something
> >> they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no dependents, so their
> >> fate was truly their own. Although death came to them too soon, it
> >> seemed almost a noble way to go, compared to so many alternatives.
>
> > Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The woman
> > was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted that she
> > died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the time -- being a
> > young wife and mother -- I could not relate to that statement at all. It
> > sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being older and a pilot myself, I
> > understand it.
>
> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..
>
> Bertie

Much better than 'death by tipping over backwards' in MSFS. ;-)

[John Mazor[_2_]]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
> "John Mazor" > wrote in
> news:GLW5j.27278$o_6.9894@trnddc08:
>
>>
>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>> .. .
>>> "John Mazor" > wrote in
>>> news:%GV5j.5654$gi7.1190@trnddc04:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>> .. .
>>>>> Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
>>>>> :
>>>>>
>>>>>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>>>>>> The difference between the two events was striking. In the
>>>>>>> former, everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died
>>>>>>> doing something they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left no
>>>>>>> dependents, so their fate was truly their own. Although death
>>>>>>> came to them too soon, it seemed almost a noble way to go,
>>>>>>> compared to so many alternatives.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The
>>>>>> woman was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was comforted
>>>>>> that she died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At the
>>>>>> time -- being a young wife and mother -- I could not relate to
>>>>>> that statement at all. It sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being
>>>>>> older and a pilot myself, I understand it.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..
>>>>
>>>> Ditto, but on my 100th birthday, of course.
>>>
>>> And more than one husband , if possible.
>>
>> "It was done by twelve of them, with the knife, in the Calais Coach."
>> ("Murder on the Orient Express")
>
> Bragging again?

Nah, fantasizing.

A man's gotta have a dream, don't he?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"John Mazor" > wrote in news:akf6j.15$0O1.4@trnddc05:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>> "John Mazor" > wrote in
>> news:GLW5j.27278$o_6.9894@trnddc08:
>>
>>>
>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>> .. .
>>>> "John Mazor" > wrote in
>>>> news:%GV5j.5654$gi7.1190@trnddc04:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
>>>>> .. .
>>>>>> Shirl > wrote in news:Xmnushal8y-
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jay Honeck > wrote:
>>>>>>>> The difference between the two events was striking. In the
>>>>>>>> former, everyone (even the parents) said "As least they died
>>>>>>>> doing something they loved" -- and meant it. Our friends left
no
>>>>>>>> dependents, so their fate was truly their own. Although death
>>>>>>>> came to them too soon, it seemed almost a noble way to go,
>>>>>>>> compared to so many alternatives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Before I was flying, we knew a couple who were both pilots. The
>>>>>>> woman was killed in a crash, and the husband said he was
comforted
>>>>>>> that she died doing something she loved. They had no kids. At
the
>>>>>>> time -- being a young wife and mother -- I could not relate to
>>>>>>> that statement at all. It sounded too matter-of-fact. Now, being
>>>>>>> older and a pilot myself, I understand it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't. I'd much rather die at the hands of a jealous husband..
>>>>>
>>>>> Ditto, but on my 100th birthday, of course.
>>>>
>>>> And more than one husband , if possible.
>>>
>>> "It was done by twelve of them, with the knife, in the Calais
Coach."
>>> ("Murder on the Orient Express")
>>
>> Bragging again?
>
> Nah, fantasizing.
>
> A man's gotta have a dream, don't he?
>
>

Twoo, vewy twoo.

Bertie
>
>

[Peter Dohm]

> wrote in message
...
> On Dec 6, 7:38 am, "Mortimer Schnerd, RN" <mschnerdatcarolina.rr.com>
> wrote:
>> I'd rather have a few seconds of terror
>> followed by the deep peace that comes
>> with acceptance of impending death than to
>> sit in a nursing home waiting for my cancer to eat me alive.
>
> Your comparison completely ignores the decades of life that are likely
> lost in a fatal plane crash (on average, crash victims are decades
> younger than the life expectancy for adults). Surely that loss far
> outweighs any preference one might have concerning the manner of death
> itself.

I prefer the sudden means, and the plane crash will do about as well as any.