Rental Checkride?

[Dallas]

I was just checking the rental terms at an FBO in the city I plan to visit
over Christmas.

I've got most of my hours in the type I wanted to rent and the FBO said
they want 3 takes offs and landings, then a power on and power off stall.
They charge the time to do this as dual.

I can see 20 minutes of landings, then a climb to do the power on and off
stalls... depending on traffic, it seems like it would take .75 to 1.0 dual
hobbs time. Basically, I'd spend more money on the checkride than I
intended to spend on the actual flight.

Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?

--
Dallas

[Robert M. Gary]

On Dec 6, 10:23 am, Dallas > wrote:
> I was just checking the rental terms at an FBO in the city I plan to visit
> over Christmas.
>
> I've got most of my hours in the type I wanted to rent and the FBO said
> they want 3 takes offs and landings, then a power on and power off stall.
> They charge the time to do this as dual.
>
> I can see 20 minutes of landings, then a climb to do the power on and off
> stalls... depending on traffic, it seems like it would take .75 to 1.0 dual
> hobbs time. Basically, I'd spend more money on the checkride than I
> intended to spend on the actual flight.
>
> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?

It's pretty normal. Sometimes they claim its an insurance requirement
but of the FBO policies I've seen I've not seen one that actually says
what a check out includes (other than landings).

-Robert

[Peter R.]

On 12/6/2007 1:23:39 PM, Dallas wrote:

> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?

I would say it is normal. The one time I rented far from home I had to go
through a three hours checkride for a C172S rental, a model in which I had
about 500 hours at the time, at an FBO in Palm Springs, CA.

Look at it this way: It is always valuable to have a different instructor
evaluating your piloting skills. If you are fortunate you might actually
receive some previously unknown tips or lessons from the instructor during
your checkride.

--
Peter

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Dallas wrote:
> I was just checking the rental terms at an FBO in the city I plan to visit
> over Christmas.
>
> I've got most of my hours in the type I wanted to rent and the FBO said
> they want 3 takes offs and landings, then a power on and power off stall.
> They charge the time to do this as dual.
>
> I can see 20 minutes of landings, then a climb to do the power on and off
> stalls... depending on traffic, it seems like it would take .75 to 1.0 dual
> hobbs time. Basically, I'd spend more money on the checkride than I
> intended to spend on the actual flight.
>
> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>
My check flights usually went like this;
I'd always start you off by asking you some weight and balance questions
based on the specific airplane being checked out.
By the time I had watched you preflight the airplane I pretty much knew
what to expect from you in the air.
By the time we reached the end of the runway I had either verified my
initial impression or based on your performance that far, made a mental
list of things I wanted to verify in the air.
By the time you rotated, climbed to altitude and leveled the airplane I
had a good idea of your general flying abilities.
At this point I would have you fly the airplane at minimum controllable
airspeed and note your skill and comfort level doing that.
Then I'd have you do a simple stall series power on and off going as
deep with the stall configurations as I deemed necessary as you
progressed while performing them.
Then we'd go into the pattern where we'd do a power approach and one
with no power available from the key position, preferably on a crosswind
runway.
If this all went well, you'd get the airplane.

Generally, this can be done in an hour if all goes well. This should be
about standard in the industry unless the pilot being checked out is
known to the operation and/or the check pilot. Expect this if coming in
cold asking for a check ride.

--
Dudley Henriques

[kontiki]

Dallas wrote:
> I was just checking the rental terms at an FBO in the city I plan to visit
> over Christmas.
>
> I've got most of my hours in the type I wanted to rent and the FBO said
> they want 3 takes offs and landings, then a power on and power off stall.
> They charge the time to do this as dual.
>
> I can see 20 minutes of landings, then a climb to do the power on and off
> stalls... depending on traffic, it seems like it would take .75 to 1.0 dual
> hobbs time. Basically, I'd spend more money on the checkride than I
> intended to spend on the actual flight.
>
> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>

That's not uncommon at all. After all, they don't know you
from Adam so they want to make sure you are in fact a safe
and competent pilot before they rent you an airplane.

Once you are checked out you will be able to rent from them
anytime.

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Dallas wrote:
>
> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>

It's more normal than not, in my experience.

On past sightseeing trips in places I don't go to often, I've just
brought the CFI with us, skipping the formal checkride.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

B A R R Y > wrote in news:H5Y5j.30695$Pv2.21285
@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:

> Dallas wrote:
>>
>> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>>
>
> It's more normal than not, in my experience.
>
> On past sightseeing trips in places I don't go to often, I've just
> brought the CFI with us, skipping the formal checkride.
>



Wise anyway. When I was a kid, one of the CFIs at the place I was working
gave one of his buds who had been flying a 727 for a living fly a rental
cherokee after only a couple of minutes checkout.
half an hour later, a 110 knot approach and touchdown rendered a brand new
cherokee environmentally friendly.


Bertie

[Maxwell]

"Dallas" > wrote in message
. ..
>
> I was just checking the rental terms at an FBO in the city I plan to visit
> over Christmas.
>
> I've got most of my hours in the type I wanted to rent and the FBO said
> they want 3 takes offs and landings, then a power on and power off stall.
> They charge the time to do this as dual.
>
> I can see 20 minutes of landings, then a climb to do the power on and off
> stalls... depending on traffic, it seems like it would take .75 to 1.0
> dual
> hobbs time. Basically, I'd spend more money on the checkride than I
> intended to spend on the actual flight.
>
> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>

Based on my experience, this is normal for a very reasonable FBO. Many
require as much as twice that.

[Ross]

B A R R Y wrote:
> Dallas wrote:
>
>>
>> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>>
>
> It's more normal than not, in my experience.
>
> On past sightseeing trips in places I don't go to often, I've just
> brought the CFI with us, skipping the formal checkride.

That's what I did when I rented a plane in England. I flew and he kept
me honest.

--

Regards, Ross
C-172F 180HP
KSWI

[Darkwing]

"Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
.. .
>B A R R Y > wrote in news:H5Y5j.30695$Pv2.21285
> @newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:
>
>> Dallas wrote:
>>>
>>> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>>>
>>
>> It's more normal than not, in my experience.
>>
>> On past sightseeing trips in places I don't go to often, I've just
>> brought the CFI with us, skipping the formal checkride.
>>
>
>
>
> Wise anyway. When I was a kid, one of the CFIs at the place I was working
> gave one of his buds who had been flying a 727 for a living fly a rental
> cherokee after only a couple of minutes checkout.
> half an hour later, a 110 knot approach and touchdown rendered a brand new
> cherokee environmentally friendly.
>
>
> Bertie

How bad did he screw it up?

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

"Darkwing" <theducksmail"AT"yahoo.com> wrote in
:

>
> "Bertie the Bunyip" > wrote in message
> .. .
>>B A R R Y > wrote in news:H5Y5j.30695$Pv2.21285
>> @newssvr23.news.prodigy.net:
>>
>>> Dallas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's more normal than not, in my experience.
>>>
>>> On past sightseeing trips in places I don't go to often, I've just
>>> brought the CFI with us, skipping the formal checkride.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Wise anyway. When I was a kid, one of the CFIs at the place I was
>> working gave one of his buds who had been flying a 727 for a living
>> fly a rental cherokee after only a couple of minutes checkout.
>> half an hour later, a 110 knot approach and touchdown rendered a
>> brand new cherokee environmentally friendly.
>>
>>
>> Bertie
>
> How bad did he screw it up?
>

He porpoised and bent the nosewheel up into the belly. Firewall, engine
mount, sudden stoppage..

He was in and out of the office for a couple of weeks and he admonished
me to stop snickering at him every time he came in..


Bertie
>
>

[Todd W. Deckard]

This is an excellent point Peter. I have never come away from an episode
of dual instruction without
feeling I had improved or restored some skill, or learned something
operational that I had never considered.

Sometimes, if there is an age, or experience, difference between myself and
the instructor I suggest
that even if they are an absolute hard ass about how I conduct myself in the
airplane for the next hour or two that
I'm still as likely to be a good friend and a frequent flying partner. I
am expecting a learner/mentor relationship
even in a straightforward rental check and am looking forward to a good
workout.

Also consider, unless the boys in the other thread successfully reform our
tort system-- the young men and women
who check us out, and the barely profitable operations which rent the
airplanes to us, are engendering some liability
when they engage us as customers. I am suprised most operations are not
more "defensive."

Todd


"Peter R." > wrote in message
...
> Look at it this way: It is always valuable to have a different instructor
> evaluating your piloting skills. If you are fortunate you might actually
> receive some previously unknown tips or lessons from the instructor during
> your checkride.
>
> --
> Peter

[Dallas]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 13:46:08 -0500, Peter R. wrote:

> I had to go through a three hours checkride for a C172S rental,
> a model in which I had about 500 hours at the time

Three hours? Can I assume a large part of that was on the ground?

Did you consider those requirements fair?


--
Dallas

[Thomas Borchert]

Dallas,

> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>

Totally normal.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

[B A R R Y[_2_]]

Todd W. Deckard wrote:
> This is an excellent point Peter. I have never come away from an episode
> of dual instruction without
> feeling I had improved or restored some skill, or learned something
> operational that I had never considered.

The Wings program has a flight portion for a reason.

[Sully]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:23:36 -0600, Dallas
> wrote:

>
>I was just checking the rental terms at an FBO in the city I plan to visit
>over Christmas.
>
>I've got most of my hours in the type I wanted to rent and the FBO said
>they want 3 takes offs and landings, then a power on and power off stall.
>They charge the time to do this as dual.
>
>I can see 20 minutes of landings, then a climb to do the power on and off
>stalls... depending on traffic, it seems like it would take .75 to 1.0 dual
>hobbs time. Basically, I'd spend more money on the checkride than I
>intended to spend on the actual flight.
>
>Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?

Our club requires an annual checkride with one of the instructors. The
catch there though is that the standing advice is to try and save some
money they recommend doing it as a Biennual so that you will always be
up to date or at the very least not have to pay for a checkride for
each. Slightly more involved than the checkout that the FBO is
requiring but then all your bases are covered.

[Arnold Sten]

B A R R Y wrote:
> Dallas wrote:
>>
>> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>>
>
> It's more normal than not, in my experience.
>
> On past sightseeing trips in places I don't go to often, I've just
> brought the CFI with us, skipping the formal checkride.
That's what I have done on two different occasions. I see no point in
spending an hour or two getting checked out when all that you want to do
is sight see for an hour. Plus, some CFIs can be awfully good tour
guides since they know the area.

[news.verizon.net[_2_]]

It's a very good idea if your just on vacation and won't be back again for
more then 90 days. I've done it several times as well and it works out
fine...
John

"Arnold Sten" > wrote in message
. ..
>B A R R Y wrote:
>> Dallas wrote:
>>> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>>>
>>
>> It's more normal than not, in my experience.
>>
>> On past sightseeing trips in places I don't go to often, I've just
>> brought the CFI with us, skipping the formal checkride.
> That's what I have done on two different occasions. I see no point in
> spending an hour or two getting checked out when all that you want to do
> is sight see for an hour. Plus, some CFIs can be awfully good tour guides
> since they know the area.

[[email protected]]

On 6 Dec, 18:23, Dallas > wrote:
> I was just checking the rental terms at an FBO in the city I plan to visit
> over Christmas.
>
> I've got most of my hours in the type I wanted to rent and the FBO said
> they want 3 takes offs and landings, then a power on and power off stall.
> They charge the time to do this as dual.
>
> I can see 20 minutes of landings, then a climb to do the power on and off
> stalls... depending on traffic, it seems like it would take .75 to 1.0 dual
> hobbs time. Basically, I'd spend more money on the checkride than I
> intended to spend on the actual flight.
>
> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>
> --
> Dallas

Normal, and I have a number of times used the rental checkout as a BFR
too. Its good value for money then.

It is what I would want to see if I was letting you borrow my plane.

[Dallas]

On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 00:21:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:

> It is what I would want to see if I was letting you borrow my plane.

Look what we get used to in this endeavor of ours:

At a Chicago Avis rental counter:

"I'd like to rent a Ford Taurus."

"Fine, I need to see your Driver's Licence and log of every mile you've
ever driven in your lifetime. Then you'll need to rent the car from us for
half a day, at your own expense of course, then drive around while our
manager of driving assurance decides whether or not we want to rent the car
to you. By the way, you'll have to pay the manager of driving assurance
while he evaluates you."

"But, I just rented and put 200 miles on a Ford Taurus in Denver... here's
the paperwork."

"Matters not... Just because you can drive a Ford Taurus in Denver doesn't
mean you can drive one in Chicago."

:-)

I'm goofing here, but would an FAA supplied rental currency form that could
be signed by a CFI stating that you have been checked out and found to be
proficient in a type work? That way you wouldn't need to be checked out
every single time you went to a new FBO.


--
Dallas

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Dallas wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 00:21:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:
>
>> It is what I would want to see if I was letting you borrow my plane.
>
> Look what we get used to in this endeavor of ours:
>
> At a Chicago Avis rental counter:
>
> "I'd like to rent a Ford Taurus."
>
> "Fine, I need to see your Driver's Licence and log of every mile you've
> ever driven in your lifetime. Then you'll need to rent the car from us for
> half a day, at your own expense of course, then drive around while our
> manager of driving assurance decides whether or not we want to rent the car
> to you. By the way, you'll have to pay the manager of driving assurance
> while he evaluates you."
>
> "But, I just rented and put 200 miles on a Ford Taurus in Denver... here's
> the paperwork."
>
> "Matters not... Just because you can drive a Ford Taurus in Denver doesn't
> mean you can drive one in Chicago."
>
> :-)
>
> I'm goofing here, but would an FAA supplied rental currency form that could
> be signed by a CFI stating that you have been checked out and found to be
> proficient in a type work? That way you wouldn't need to be checked out
> every single time you went to a new FBO.
>
>
Doubt it. Pilot proficiency and currency are issues demanding local
verification by each insurance underwriter. Logbooks and paperwork can
easily be cooked. Visual proof of competence satisfies the Insurance people.
Might as well give in Dallas; it's the way the system works. One side
benefit is that once you establish yourself and your competence at a
local operation and they know you and get their airplanes back in one
moving part that works each time you fly it, getting checked out in
other aircraft is a whole lot easier. :-))



--
Dudley Henriques

[Dallas]

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:01:37 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:

> Might as well give in Dallas; it's the way the system works.

Oh well, it's only money. (grumble :-)



--
Dallas

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Dallas wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:01:37 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:
>
>> Might as well give in Dallas; it's the way the system works.
>
> Oh well, it's only money. (grumble :-)
>
>
>
I know what you mean. It's getting damn expensive to fly these days.
When I was instructing (general instruction not private aerobatic
tutoring) you could walk in cold off the street, announce you wanted to
rent one of our 172's or Cherokees, fly with me for a half hour on the
Hobbs, hopefully learn at least one new thing in the process :-) and get
checked out to go off on your own for about 50 bucks.

--
Dudley Henriques

[Dallas]

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:43:42 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:

> checked out to go off on your own for about 50 bucks.

Yup... nowadays that 50 bucks is what it costs the FBO for just the fuel.


--
Dallas

[Jose]

> "I'd like to rent a Ford Taurus."
>
> "Fine, I need to see your Driver's Licence and log of every mile...

Would you lend your plane to a stranger, based only on his statement
that he flew a lot? That's all a logbook is anyway.

Maybe you'd lend your car out that way, but cars are a little easier to
operate. Flying, on the other hand, involves balancing your craft a
mile above the ground, on nothing more than a blast of air, for hundreds
of miles. This means many things, including that the condition of the
air is much more important than driving (i.e. weather, altitude), the
number of serious things that can go wrong is increased, the number of
options when they do go wrong is decreased (you can't just pull over and
call AAA), and the condition and mindset of the operator is more important.

Add to that the fact that most rental pilots have flown fewer hours in a
lifetime than a teenager has driven before he turns 21.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Dallas > wrote in
:

> On Sat, 8 Dec 2007 00:21:10 -0800 (PST), wrote:
>
>> It is what I would want to see if I was letting you borrow my plane.
>
> Look what we get used to in this endeavor of ours:
>
> At a Chicago Avis rental counter:
>
> "I'd like to rent a Ford Taurus."
>
> "Fine, I need to see your Driver's Licence and log of every mile
> you've ever driven in your lifetime. Then you'll need to rent the car
> from us for half a day, at your own expense of course, then drive
> around while our manager of driving assurance decides whether or not
> we want to rent the car to you. By the way, you'll have to pay the
> manager of driving assurance while he evaluates you."
>
> "But, I just rented and put 200 miles on a Ford Taurus in Denver...
> here's the paperwork."
>
> "Matters not... Just because you can drive a Ford Taurus in Denver
> doesn't mean you can drive one in Chicago."
>
>:-)
>
> I'm goofing here, but would an FAA supplied rental currency form that
> could be signed by a CFI stating that you have been checked out and
> found to be proficient in a type work? That way you wouldn't need to
> be checked out every single time you went to a new FBO.
>

I wouldn't honor it, anyway.

Bertie

[Morgans[_2_]]

"Dallas" > wrote in message
...
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:43:42 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:
>
>> checked out to go off on your own for about 50 bucks.
>
> Yup... nowadays that 50 bucks is what it costs the FBO for just the fuel.

Nah, that's not correct.

50 bucks is what it takes for the FBO to _start_ the fuel truck to fill up
the plane! <g>
--
Jim in NC

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Airbus wrote:
> In article >,
> says...
>>
>> Dallas wrote:
>>> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:01:37 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:
>>>
>>>> Might as well give in Dallas; it's the way the system works.
>>> Oh well, it's only money. (grumble :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I know what you mean. It's getting damn expensive to fly these days.
>> When I was instructing (general instruction not private aerobatic
>> tutoring) you could walk in cold off the street, announce you wanted to
>> rent one of our 172's or Cherokees, fly with me for a half hour on the
>> Hobbs, hopefully learn at least one new thing in the process :-) and get
>> checked out to go off on your own for about 50 bucks.
>>
>
>
> "These days" fine. . .
> But I recall an experience a couple decades ago - before I had a
> certificate myself. I went with a friend to a local airport to rent a C-150
> for some sightseeing. My friend was at the time an American Airlines first
> officer on Shorts 360, operating daily out of JFK - no matter, I waited on
> the ramp for the better part of two hours while they put her through every
> possible manoeuver - I think they had her doing wing-walking routines up
> there before they were willing to let her take the plane up. By the time
> they were done with her its was almost getting dark. We paid much more for
> the checkride than for the pleasure flight we had planned on. . .
>
No Offense here but being current in one aircraft is absolutely no
indication at all of competence in another. In fact, some of the most
extensive checkouts I ever had to give were for active airline pilots
seeking to rent Cessna 150's.
This doesn't mean these pilots were incompetent. It simply means that
handling light airplanes after handling large heavy airplanes sometimes
needs a bit of "refreshment dual :-)"
On the other hand, there certainly were FBO's out there when I was
active that could be unnecessarily profit oriented when doing checkouts.
I will say that in my entire career as a check pilot I never flew with a
pilot coming out of major big iron that needed any longer than an hour
to let loose.
Sorry you ran into a profit mill :-))

--
Dudley Henriques

[Stefan]

Dudley Henriques schrieb:

> I know what you mean. It's getting damn expensive to fly these days.
> When I was instructing (general instruction not private aerobatic
> tutoring) you could walk in cold off the street, announce you wanted to
> rent one of our 172's or Cherokees, fly with me for a half hour on the
> Hobbs, hopefully learn at least one new thing in the process :-) and get
> checked out to go off on your own for about 50 bucks.

Kind of reminds me of my grandfather who always told us how cheap a
bottle of beer had been when he was 20.

[Dudley Henriques[_2_]]

Stefan wrote:
> Dudley Henriques schrieb:
>
>> I know what you mean. It's getting damn expensive to fly these days.
>> When I was instructing (general instruction not private aerobatic
>> tutoring) you could walk in cold off the street, announce you wanted
>> to rent one of our 172's or Cherokees, fly with me for a half hour on
>> the Hobbs, hopefully learn at least one new thing in the process :-)
>> and get checked out to go off on your own for about 50 bucks.
>
> Kind of reminds me of my grandfather who always told us how cheap a
> bottle of beer had been when he was 20.

Hey, you're lucky!! I COULD have told you how we walked to school both
ways in the snow!
:-)))

--
Dudley Henriques

[Airbus]

In article >,
says...
>
>
>Dallas wrote:
>> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:01:37 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:
>>
>>> Might as well give in Dallas; it's the way the system works.
>>
>> Oh well, it's only money. (grumble :-)
>>
>>
>>
>I know what you mean. It's getting damn expensive to fly these days.
>When I was instructing (general instruction not private aerobatic
>tutoring) you could walk in cold off the street, announce you wanted to
>rent one of our 172's or Cherokees, fly with me for a half hour on the
>Hobbs, hopefully learn at least one new thing in the process :-) and get
>checked out to go off on your own for about 50 bucks.
>


"These days" fine. . .
But I recall an experience a couple decades ago - before I had a
certificate myself. I went with a friend to a local airport to rent a C-150
for some sightseeing. My friend was at the time an American Airlines first
officer on Shorts 360, operating daily out of JFK - no matter, I waited on
the ramp for the better part of two hours while they put her through every
possible manoeuver - I think they had her doing wing-walking routines up
there before they were willing to let her take the plane up. By the time
they were done with her its was almost getting dark. We paid much more for
the checkride than for the pleasure flight we had planned on. . .

[WJRFlyBoy]

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:37:22 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:

>> Kind of reminds me of my grandfather who always told us how cheap a
>> bottle of beer had been when he was 20.
>
> Hey, you're lucky!! I COULD have told you how we walked to school both
> ways in the snow!
> :-)))
>
> --
> Dudley Henriques

I did, both ways, part was uphill going and coming, though.
--
Remove numbers for gmail and for God's sake it ain't "gee" either!

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 12:23:36 -0600, Dallas
> wrote:

>
>I was just checking the rental terms at an FBO in the city I plan to visit
>over Christmas.
>
>I've got most of my hours in the type I wanted to rent and the FBO said
>they want 3 takes offs and landings, then a power on and power off stall.
>They charge the time to do this as dual.
>
>I can see 20 minutes of landings, then a climb to do the power on and off
>stalls... depending on traffic, it seems like it would take .75 to 1.0 dual
>hobbs time. Basically, I'd spend more money on the checkride than I
>intended to spend on the actual flight.
>
>Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?

It's normal.
You do have "Renters Insurance" don't you? Otherwise in many instances
it's you bend it, you fix it.

Have fun,

Roger (K8RI)

[Roger (K8RI)]

On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:20:06 -0500, Dudley Henriques
> wrote:

>Airbus wrote:
>> In article >,
>> says...
>>>
>>> Dallas wrote:
>>>> On Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:01:37 -0500, Dudley Henriques wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Might as well give in Dallas; it's the way the system works.
>>>> Oh well, it's only money. (grumble :-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I know what you mean. It's getting damn expensive to fly these days.
>>> When I was instructing (general instruction not private aerobatic
>>> tutoring) you could walk in cold off the street, announce you wanted to
>>> rent one of our 172's or Cherokees, fly with me for a half hour on the
>>> Hobbs, hopefully learn at least one new thing in the process :-) and get
>>> checked out to go off on your own for about 50 bucks.
>>>
>>
>>
>> "These days" fine. . .
>> But I recall an experience a couple decades ago - before I had a
>> certificate myself. I went with a friend to a local airport to rent a C-150
>> for some sightseeing. My friend was at the time an American Airlines first
>> officer on Shorts 360, operating daily out of JFK - no matter, I waited on
>> the ramp for the better part of two hours while they put her through every
>> possible manoeuver - I think they had her doing wing-walking routines up
>> there before they were willing to let her take the plane up. By the time
>> they were done with her its was almost getting dark. We paid much more for
>> the checkride than for the pleasure flight we had planned on. . .
>>
>No Offense here but being current in one aircraft is absolutely no
>indication at all of competence in another. In fact, some of the most

Ain't it da truth!

After flying the Deb for about 4 or 5 years I was having some work
done that was going to take a few weeks. I decided to rent a 172 just
to keep in shape.

A friend/CFI and I headed out to the practice area to get in a wee bit
of re familiarization. First up was a steep turn. As I've mentioned
before I had to learn them at 60 degrees so that's what I still do, or
in this case had intended to do. I rolled left and the nose went
right. I recognized my error immediately, accompanied by a rather
embarrassing moment of sideways flight. That skid reminded me I was
no longer flying the Deb.

After the laughter subsided from the right seat along with a few
comments about lazy pilots not using their feet the rest of the
checkout went fine and only took a bit over half an hour. Planning
ahead you can easily do every maneuver required for the PPL PTS in
less than half an hour...except the cross country part. <:-))

The only thing I noted over the next few weeks was that 172 sure
screwed up my mental flight planning on trips. Even short trips took
surprisingly longer than expected. After 4 or 5 years at 130 hours a
year in the Deb flying the 172 cross country was a shock. <:-))
However flying the pattern was little different than in the Deb. Well,
other than the 172 was like a kite coming down final with about half
the glide ratio of the Deb.

>extensive checkouts I ever had to give were for active airline pilots
>seeking to rent Cessna 150's.
>This doesn't mean these pilots were incompetent. It simply means that
>handling light airplanes after handling large heavy airplanes sometimes
>needs a bit of "refreshment dual :-)"

I was checked out to rent a Cherokee 180 over at Beverly field by an
ex WWII P-51 pilot. They told me to expect an hour or two. We took
off, headed north doing some S-turns, followed by a steep turn,
followed by a stall. He said, "Lets go back". He pulled the power on
down wind and I set 'er down right where he wanted. Total check out
was bout half an hour. 45 minutes counting the preflight.


>On the other hand, there certainly were FBO's out there when I was
>active that could be unnecessarily profit oriented when doing checkouts.
>I will say that in my entire career as a check pilot I never flew with a
>pilot coming out of major big iron that needed any longer than an hour
>to let loose.
>Sorry you ran into a profit mill :-))

And unless you are from the area it's difficult to know which FBO to
use.

Roger (K8RI)

[xyzzy]

On Dec 7, 5:51 pm, Arnold Sten > wrote:
> B A R R Y wrote:> Dallas wrote:
>
> >> Is this a little stiff or is it the normal practice?
>
> > It's more normal than not, in my experience.
>
> > On past sightseeing trips in places I don't go to often, I've just
> > brought the CFI with us, skipping the formal checkride.
>
> That's what I have done on two different occasions. I see no point in
> spending an hour or two getting checked out when all that you want to do
> is sight see for an hour. Plus, some CFIs can be awfully good tour
> guides since they know the area.

I just want to add my agreement to all the posters who said just take
the CFI on the sightseeing ride and skip the checkout. I've done this
several times, in places ranging from LA, NY, South Africa, and
England. It's a great way to fly and learn about flying from someone
new. The CFI works the radio and navigates, and you do the fun part
(fly the airplane and enjoy the sights!).

Oh, one additional tip for this plan: make sure you check out the CFI
on your camera before takeoff. I had a CFI in LA take what I thought
would be great pictures, turns out the camera had turned off, 5 minute
powersaver, and she didn't know it :) I'm still bummed I don't have
those pics of that KAL 747 taking off to the west as I flew over LAX.

[Peter R.]

On 12/7/2007 12:57:01 AM, Dallas wrote:

> Three hours? Can I assume a large part of that was on the ground?
>
> Did you consider those requirements fair?

In this case I got my money's worth: I had the instructor take me up to Big
Bear airport, an airport at 6,752 feet elevation about 45 minutes flight from
Palm Springs, for a high altitude airport checkout/lesson.

Now that you mention it there may have been some ground instruction; I don't
recall now. This was back in early 2003.


--
Peter

[Thomas Borchert]

Xyzzy,

> I'm still bummed I don't have
> those pics of that KAL 747 taking off to the west as I flew over LAX.
>

Reminds of the time I flew by SFO and the controller asked "Do you have
the KLM 747 on the runway in sight?" Duh! "Affirmative" "Maintain
visual separation from that traffic and proceed midfield" That was easy
;-)

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)