US, Retrieve Cell service getting worse, Analog service disappearing.

[chris]

Did you know analog cell phone coverage is being sunset? Legally, a
FCC ruling says that all analog cell phone services can be shut off
after Feb. 18, 2008, aka the 'analog sunset' ?
And guess what, Verizon will do just that precisely on 2/18/2008!
See:
http://support.vzw.com/faqs/Wireless%20Issues/analog_retirement.html

There are still some rural areas without digital service, so after
2/18/2008 your retrieval call may just not be as easy ... Especially
out in Texas and other rural areas.


Now I wonder if keeping Verizon with their old digital technology or
if it is better to switch to AT&T and others using the GSM network.
Verizon digital is CDMA - it is the old digital standard, not as
modern as the GSM standard that AT&T now uses. I think CDMA is
currently on more towers.

I think the trimode phones I have is analog, CDMA & TDMA [even older
digital].

I think a lot of the world uses GSM but then in Europe they have much
higher population density than the Western US so I don't know how well
it works
outside the cities.

Which technology would have better reception OMN [out in middle of
nowhere]?

Short of a satellite phone what's the best cell service for a glider
geek?

Does it make sense to supplement a CDMA regular phone with a prepaid
phone on the GSM network?
Does anyone make dual mode CDMA/GSM?

Chris

[K l e i n]

On Dec 13, 7:37 pm, chris > wrote:
> Did you know analog cell phone coverage is being sunset? Legally, a
> FCC ruling says that all analog cell phone services can be shut off
> after Feb. 18, 2008, aka the 'analog sunset' ?
> And guess what, Verizon will do just that precisely on 2/18/2008!
> See:http://support.vzw.com/faqs/Wireless%20Issues/analog_retirement.html

This is actually a good thing unless you happen to be in love with
your old analog-only phone. All the digital technologies work better
than analog. The only time this has not been true is when the
cellular operators have decided, for business reasons, not to provide
digital service in remote areas because the revenue potential is too
small. This FCC action forces them to upgrade to digital.

> There are still some rural areas without digital service, so after
> 2/18/2008 your retrieval call may just not be as easy ... Especially
> out in Texas and other rural areas.

No, the carriers will be installing digital services in these areas.

> Now I wonder if keeping Verizon with their old digital technology or
> if it is better to switch to AT&T and others using the GSM network.
> Verizon digital is CDMA - it is the old digital standard, not as
> modern as the GSM standard that AT&T now uses. I think CDMA is
> currently on more towers.

Whose Koolaid have you been drinking? The GSM technology is the
obsolete old one, not CDMA. All other things being equal (such as
tower height, location, etc) CDMA, as a technology, has significantly
greater range than GSM. Perhaps you did not know that in Europe, they
are converting from the old TDMA GSM system to a version of CDMA
(incompatibly different from USA CDMA but not different in principle.)

> I think the trimode phones I have is analog, CDMA & TDMA [even older
> digital].

I doubt if anyone ever made an analog/CDMA/TDMA phone. Analog/CDMA/
GSM, yes, to provide worldwide coverage for frequent international
travelers. What you have is probably a tri mode phone where the 3
modes are 800 MHz analog, 800 MHz CDMA and 1900 MHz CDMA. These are
very common.

> I think a lot of the world uses GSM but then in Europe they have much
> higher population density than the Western US so I don't know how well
> it works
> outside the cities.

Not so good.

> Which technology would have better reception OMN [out in middle of
> nowhere]?

CDMA.

> Short of a satellite phone what's the best cell service for a glider
> geek?

CDMA. But a satellite phone wouldn't be a bad idea if you want to be
sure.

> Does it make sense to supplement a CDMA regular phone with a prepaid
> phone on the GSM network?

No. Supplement it with a satellite phone.

> Does anyone make dual mode CDMA/GSM?

Yes, but not using the USA GSM frequency bands. The one I mention
above uses EU GSM frequency bands.

K l e i n

[Greg Arnold]

K l e i n wrote:
> On Dec 13, 7:37 pm, chris > wrote:
>> Did you know analog cell phone coverage is being sunset? Legally, a
>> FCC ruling says that all analog cell phone services can be shut off
>> after Feb. 18, 2008, aka the 'analog sunset' ?
>> And guess what, Verizon will do just that precisely on 2/18/2008!
>> See:http://support.vzw.com/faqs/Wireless%20Issues/analog_retirement.html
>
> This is actually a good thing unless you happen to be in love with
> your old analog-only phone. All the digital technologies work better
> than analog. The only time this has not been true is when the
> cellular operators have decided, for business reasons, not to provide
> digital service in remote areas because the revenue potential is too
> small. This FCC action forces them to upgrade to digital.
>
>> There are still some rural areas without digital service, so after
>> 2/18/2008 your retrieval call may just not be as easy ... Especially
>> out in Texas and other rural areas.
>
> No, the carriers will be installing digital services in these areas.

How soon? I just looked at the Verizon coverage map, and much of Nevada
looks to lose coverage on Feb 18th.

[K l e i n]

On Dec 13, 8:59 pm, Greg Arnold > wrote:
> K l e i n wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 13, 7:37 pm, chris > wrote:
> >> Did you know analog cell phone coverage is being sunset? Legally, a
> >> FCC ruling says that all analog cell phone services can be shut off
> >> after Feb. 18, 2008, aka the 'analog sunset' ?
> >> And guess what, Verizon will do just that precisely on 2/18/2008!
> >> See:http://support.vzw.com/faqs/Wireless%20Issues/analog_retirement.html
>
> > This is actually a good thing unless you happen to be in love with
> > your old analog-only phone. All the digital technologies work better
> > than analog. The only time this has not been true is when the
> > cellular operators have decided, for business reasons, not to provide
> > digital service in remote areas because the revenue potential is too
> > small. This FCC action forces them to upgrade to digital.
>
> >> There are still some rural areas without digital service, so after
> >> 2/18/2008 your retrieval call may just not be as easy ... Especially
> >> out in Texas and other rural areas.
>
> > No, the carriers will be installing digital services in these areas.
>
> How soon? I just looked at the Verizon coverage map, and much of Nevada
> looks to lose coverage on Feb 18th.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yep, that's what the web site quoted by the OP says. Feb 18th, '08.
Enjoy your new digital phone. My personal favorites are the Samsung
u740 and the Samsung i760. The 740 is very thin and fits nicely in
the front pocket of my jeans. It is able to synchronize wirelessly to
the Outlook program on my desktop computer anytime/anywhere. The u760
is slightly larger, but has a much larger keyboard for easier
messaging, plus being a smart phone able to run pocket versions of
word/excel, etc.

K l e i n

[JS]

Don't see how anyone can say losing coverage is a good thing. You
actually trust that all the analog towers will be replaced with
digital?
There were already enough holes in Nevada without losing analog.
Ye olde CDMA/Analog phone died and had to be replaced with a just
CDMA phone. Must say that only having digital is inferior. GSM
coverage in CA/NV seems to be even worse. Looks like the only way to
get phone coverage in the Great Basin will be rental or prepaid sat
phones. Text messages may be possible from the cell phone, as the
phone keeps trying until it's sent. You can climb a mountain or two
and hopefully send the text from the top. Bring enough drinking water
and a spare phone battery.
Have ordered the SPOT Tracker to see if it works. Press a button and
a text message is sent to your crew with lat and lon. Anyone on RAS
try this thing yet? Seen some reviews, it appears to do what it
claims. Caveat: it cannot be wired to external power or antenna.
Australia is dealing with a similar cell phone problem, CDMA being
replaced by 3G and NextG. Had to replace the CDMA/Analog phone with
NextG. While NextG is excellent when it works and looks good on the
coverage map, the newer coverage is reportedly better in crowded areas
but worse in the countryside. And 3G uses the same antenna as CDMA so
the only changes that are done are on the ground. Telstra's claim is
something like "we cover 98% of the population". Better hope the cows
and sheep near where you land count as population.
Bring back the original Motorola analog brick. It had real transmit
power.
Jim

On Dec 13, 8:35 pm, K l e i n > wrote:
>
>
> > > This is actually a good thing unless you happen to be in love with
> > > your old analog-only phone.
> > > No, the carriers will be installing digital services in these areas.
>
> K l e i n

[Frank Whiteley]

On Dec 14, 10:46 am, JS > wrote:
> Don't see how anyone can say losing coverage is a good thing. You
> actually trust that all the analog towers will be replaced with
> digital?
> There were already enough holes in Nevada without losing analog.
> Ye olde CDMA/Analog phone died and had to be replaced with a just
> CDMA phone. Must say that only having digital is inferior. GSM
> coverage in CA/NV seems to be even worse. Looks like the only way to
> get phone coverage in the Great Basin will be rental or prepaid sat
> phones. Text messages may be possible from the cell phone, as the
> phone keeps trying until it's sent. You can climb a mountain or two
> and hopefully send the text from the top. Bring enough drinking water
> and a spare phone battery.
> Have ordered the SPOT Tracker to see if it works. Press a button and
> a text message is sent to your crew with lat and lon. Anyone on RAS
> try this thing yet? Seen some reviews, it appears to do what it
> claims. Caveat: it cannot be wired to external power or antenna.
> Australia is dealing with a similar cell phone problem, CDMA being
> replaced by 3G and NextG. Had to replace the CDMA/Analog phone with
> NextG. While NextG is excellent when it works and looks good on the
> coverage map, the newer coverage is reportedly better in crowded areas
> but worse in the countryside. And 3G uses the same antenna as CDMA so
> the only changes that are done are on the ground. Telstra's claim is
> something like "we cover 98% of the population". Better hope the cows
> and sheep near where you land count as population.
> Bring back the original Motorola analog brick. It had real transmit
> power.
> Jim
>
> On Dec 13, 8:35 pm, K l e i n > wrote:
>
>
>
> > > > This is actually a good thing unless you happen to be in love with
> > > > your old analog-only phone.
> > > > No, the carriers will be installing digital services in these areas.
>
> > K l e i n

I know ranchers and farmers that still carry the old lunch box analog
phones on their tractors for the reach.

Coverage on my cross country trips seems to be improving each year,
but there are still a lot of holes and analog roaming areas,
especially in the mountain west.

Frank Whiteley

[[email protected]]

On Dec 14, 10:46 am, JS > wrote:
> Don't see how anyone can say losing coverage is a good thing. You
> actually trust that all the analog towers will be replaced with
> digital?
> There were already enough holes in Nevada without losing analog.
> Ye olde CDMA/Analog phone died and had to be replaced with a just
> CDMA phone. Must say that only having digital is inferior. GSM
> coverage in CA/NV seems to be even worse. Looks like the only way to
> get phone coverage in the Great Basin will be rental or prepaid sat
> phones. Text messages may be possible from the cell phone, as the
> phone keeps trying until it's sent. You can climb a mountain or two
> and hopefully send the text from the top. Bring enough drinking water
> and a spare phone battery.
> Have ordered the SPOT Tracker to see if it works. Press a button and
> a text message is sent to your crew with lat and lon. Anyone on RAS
> try this thing yet? Seen some reviews, it appears to do what it
> claims. Caveat: it cannot be wired to external power or antenna.
> Australia is dealing with a similar cell phone problem, CDMA being
> replaced by 3G and NextG. Had to replace the CDMA/Analog phone with
> NextG. While NextG is excellent when it works and looks good on the
> coverage map, the newer coverage is reportedly better in crowded areas
> but worse in the countryside. And 3G uses the same antenna as CDMA so
> the only changes that are done are on the ground. Telstra's claim is
> something like "we cover 98% of the population". Better hope the cows
> and sheep near where you land count as population.
> Bring back the original Motorola analog brick. It had real transmit
> power.
> Jim
>
> On Dec 13, 8:35 pm, K l e i n > wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > > > This is actually a good thing unless you happen to be in love with
> > > > your old analog-only phone.
> > > > No, the carriers will be installing digital services in these areas.
>
> > K l e i n- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

there is a fair amount of info about the SPOT system at www.vansairforce.net
The guy who runs that site, Doug Reeves I think, uses it while flying
his Vans RV-X airplane. He is a big believer.

[5Z]

On Dec 14, 9:46 am, JS > wrote:
> Have ordered the SPOT Tracker to see if it works. Press a button and
> a text message is sent to your crew with lat and lon. Anyone on RAS
> try this thing yet? Seen some reviews, it appears to do what it
> claims. Caveat: it cannot be wired to external power or antenna.

Got one in early Nov and so far only made a single flight with it, and
made a few tests while driving and walking around. Works pretty much
as advertised.

Requires two lithium AA batteries (about $4.00 to replace), but
lifetime claims on batteries are pretty good. With live tracking,
they claim something like 14 (24 hour) days, if I read the docs
correctly. So that's a lot more than my typical soaring season of
around 150+ hours.

I think the live tracking option ($150.00/yr on top of the initial
$150.00 purchase price) is a "must have" extension to flying with an
ELT. Carry the SPOT in your shirt pocket and just before takeoff, arm
the live tracking. So now your friends can see your position every 10
minutes or so for the next 24 hours by visiting their website (still
under construction, currently one must use the owner's login to get to
it) to see a history of position reports on a Google map. While
airborne, I'm guessing there's a 99% or better chance that all
position reports will be successfully transmitted within a reasonable
time frame. If something bad happens to me, and I'm unable to press
the 911 button, unable to activate my PLB / ELT and the ELT fails to
trigger, then my track will at least get the search party to within 10
minutes of my last known location.

-Tom

[chris]

> How soon? I just looked at the Verizon coverage map, and much of Nevada
> looks to lose coverage on Feb 18th.-

In looking over the coverage maps there are a lot of good soaring
locations without any coverage, especially when Analog goes away:
http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/
http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController?requesttype=NEWREQUEST&lid=//global//plans//coverage+maps

I would assume that satellite phones are still rather expensive.
Chris

[Frank Whiteley]

On Dec 17, 9:03 am, chris > wrote:
> > How soon? I just looked at the Verizon coverage map, and much of Nevada
> > looks to lose coverage on Feb 18th.-
>
> In looking over the coverage maps there are a lot of good soaring
> locations without any coverage, especially when Analog goes away:http://www.wireless.att.com/coverageviewer/http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/CoverageLocatorController?requestt...
>
> I would assume that satellite phones are still rather expensive.
> Chris

http://www.physorg.com/news117481262.html

On-Star, alarm companies, and others will be affected.

Frank W.

[chris]

CNN has this on their site, other people are having the same issues,
and worse for people with embeded systems.

It did mention that some analog would be avialable for rural areas,
but i wonder if verizon would allow my cell phone to connect to it.

Analog cell-phone network going off air
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/12/24/cellular.sunset.ap/index.html