Re: Sims

[Jay Honeck]

> So I've seen. An impressive set-up. And I think it's good that you expose
> real pilots to the potential of simulation. Even pilots who love to fly for
> real cannot necessarily do so as often as they might like, and simulation is a
> way to help hold off symptoms of withdrawal.

This is a good point WRT our Kiwi.

Every Tuesday we have "Movie Night at the Inn" where we show a free
aviation-related movie to anyone who shows up. (This coming Tuesday
is a double-feature with "Target for Tonight" and a short on the
Golden Age of Flight.)

Before and after the movie we offer free time on the Kiwi.

There are a couple of "regulars" who are older pilots on fixed
incomes. They may have lost their medicals, and almost certainly have
no discretionary income to **** away on "$100 hamburger" flights.

The Kiwi is a terrific outlet for these guys. They get their flying
"fix" each week without spending a nickel, and the rest of us get to
enjoy their company.

Is it as good as flying to Janesville for brunch? Hell, no! But the
price is certainly right.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mxsmanic]

Jay Honeck writes:

> There are a couple of "regulars" who are older pilots on fixed
> incomes. They may have lost their medicals, and almost certainly have
> no discretionary income to **** away on "$100 hamburger" flights.

Are they guests of the hotel, or do you allow anyone to come in and fly the
sim?

> The Kiwi is a terrific outlet for these guys. They get their flying
> "fix" each week without spending a nickel, and the rest of us get to
> enjoy their company.

How does it compare to real flying for them? If zero is nothing and ten is
real flight, where does simulation rank?

> Is it as good as flying to Janesville for brunch? Hell, no! But the
> price is certainly right.

That's one of the huge attractions to simulation: the cost is essentially nil.
Personally, I would not trade my 900 or so hours of online simulation for the
half-hour or so of real flight that I could get for the same money. You have
to draw the line somewhere, and it's a bit surrealistic to insist that even a
few minutes of real flight trumps days, months, or years of simulation.

Additionally, since a lifetime on the ground is only one failed medical away
for every pilot, it would be wise for pilots to familiarize themselves with
simulation, just in case. Playing on a simulator is a lot more fun than
sitting in a recliner pining for unattainable experience in a real aircraft.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Jay Honeck writes:
>
>> There are a couple of "regulars" who are older pilots on fixed
>> incomes. They may have lost their medicals, and almost certainly
>> have no discretionary income to **** away on "$100 hamburger"
>> flights.
>
> Are they guests of the hotel, or do you allow anyone to come in and
> fly the sim?

Nobody flies sims, moron.


Bertie

[[email protected]]

> I would not trade my 900 or so hours of online simulation for the
> half-hour or so of real flight that I could get for the same money. You have
> to draw the line somewhere, and it's a bit surrealistic to insist that even a
> few minutes of real flight trumps days, months, or years of simulation.

A single take-off at the controls, even as a student pilot, trumps all
the time I've EVER spent pretending to fly planes in any of three
simulators I've tried. I would happily trade that simulator time
against real flight time.

If you openly admit you don't want to be a pilot, and you also don't
want to spend any time at all as a student pilot -- then why are you
posting on a piloting forum?

Your actions are not just surreal -- they're quite obviously insane.

[Mxsmanic]

writes:

> A single take-off at the controls, even as a student pilot, trumps all
> the time I've EVER spent pretending to fly planes in any of three
> simulators I've tried. I would happily trade that simulator time
> against real flight time.

We all have our priorities. I have my doubts about you actually maintaining
this opinion if it were actually to be applied to reality. It's easy to make
such sweeping statements when you know that they'll never be implemented in
the real world.

> If you openly admit you don't want to be a pilot, and you also don't
> want to spend any time at all as a student pilot -- then why are you
> posting on a piloting forum?

Because I like flight simulation.

Besides, I don't necessarily _not_ want to be a pilot; it's just inaccessible
and impratical at this time, and it is not a driving force in my life.
Perhaps if I had a great deal of time and money I might try my hand at
piloting, although there are extreme constraints on how far one can go as an
actual pilot. Here in France, for example, I'd be forever limited to flying
very tiny airplanes from one dusty little uncontrolled field to another, as
virtually nothing else is allowed or economically feasible.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> writes:
>
>> A single take-off at the controls, even as a student pilot, trumps
>> all the time I've EVER spent pretending to fly planes in any of three
>> simulators I've tried. I would happily trade that simulator time
>> against real flight time.
>
> We all have our priorities.

Yes, we fly and you jerk off.


Bertie

[[email protected]]

> > If you openly admit you don't want to be a pilot, and you also don't
> > want to spend any time at all as a student pilot -- then why are you
> > posting on a piloting forum?
>
> Because I like flight simulation.

Oh. You're confused.

Here's a forum focused on what you're interested in
(comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim):

http://groups.google.com/group/comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.flight-sim/topics

[Jay Honeck]

> > There are a couple of "regulars" who are older pilots on fixed
> > incomes. They may have lost their medicals, and almost certainly have
> > no discretionary income to **** away on "$100 hamburger" flights.
>
> Are they guests of the hotel, or do you allow anyone to come in and fly the
> sim?

"Movie Night" is open to the public. You don't have to be a hotel
guest. In fact, most attendees are *not* hotel guests.

> > The Kiwi is a terrific outlet for these guys. They get their flying
> > "fix" each week without spending a nickel, and the rest of us get to
> > enjoy their company.
>
> How does it compare to real flying for them? If zero is nothing and ten is
> real flight, where does simulation rank?

Well, that's a totally subjective topic. Personally, I put flying
the sim at somewhere around a "5" on a 1 to 10 scale, with real flying
being a 10. For the older guys who are now unable to fly "for real",
it's something of a moot point. For them, it's all there is.

> > Is it as good as flying to Janesville for brunch? Hell, no! But the
> > price is certainly right.
>
> That's one of the huge attractions to simulation: the cost is essentially nil.
> Personally, I would not trade my 900 or so hours of online simulation for the
> half-hour or so of real flight that I could get for the same money.

I would not trade my first solo flight for any amount of money. It
was a magical mixture of joy, excitement, personal satisfaction, and
wonder that could never be duplicated or replaced. Even if I had
never flown again, all the time, money and effort I had invested would
have made that 30-minute flight worthwhile.

Until you've felt the wings get light while being in complete control,
you will never be able to fully appreciate flying.

Discovery flights (at least in America) are cheap. You really owe it
to yourself to just take a single flight lesson -- it can be a life-
changing event.

> Additionally, since a lifetime on the ground is only one failed medical away
> for every pilot, it would be wise for pilots to familiarize themselves with
> simulation, just in case. Playing on a simulator is a lot more fun than
> sitting in a recliner pining for unattainable experience in a real aircraft.

I think most pilots are familiar with flight sims, although in my
experience much of their knowledge-base is pretty out-dated, being
based on what flight simulator could do years (or even decades) ago.
Many real pilots are quite amazed at what our Kiwi can do.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Jay Honeck > wrote in
:

>> > There are a couple of "regulars" who are older pilots on fixed
>> > incomes. They may have lost their medicals, and almost certainly
>> > have no discretionary income to **** away on "$100 hamburger"
>> > flights.
>>
>> Are they guests of the hotel, or do you allow anyone to come in and
>> fly the sim?
>
> "Movie Night" is open to the public. You don't have to be a hotel
> guest. In fact, most attendees are *not* hotel guests.
>
>> > The Kiwi is a terrific outlet for these guys. They get their
>> > flying "fix" each week without spending a nickel, and the rest of
>> > us get to enjoy their company.
>>
>> How does it compare to real flying for them? If zero is nothing and
>> ten is real flight, where does simulation rank?
>
> Well, that's a totally subjective topic. Personally, I put flying
> the sim at somewhere around a "5" on a 1 to 10 scale, with real flying
> being a 10. For the older guys who are now unable to fly "for real",
> it's something of a moot point. For them, it's all there is.
>
>> > Is it as good as flying to Janesville for brunch? Hell, no! But
>> > the price is certainly right.
>>
>> That's one of the huge attractions to simulation: the cost is
>> essentially nil. Personally, I would not trade my 900 or so hours of
>> online simulation for the half-hour or so of real flight that I could
>> get for the same money.
>
> I would not trade my first solo flight for any amount of money. It
> was a magical mixture of joy, excitement, personal satisfaction, and
> wonder that could never be duplicated or replaced. Even if I had
> never flown again, all the time, money and effort I had invested would
> have made that 30-minute flight worthwhile.
>
> Until you've felt the wings get light while being in complete control,
> you will never be able to fully appreciate flying.
>
> Discovery flights (at least in America) are cheap. You really owe it
> to yourself to just take a single flight lesson -- it can be a life-
> changing event.
>
>> Additionally, since a lifetime on the ground is only one failed
>> medical away for every pilot, it would be wise for pilots to
>> familiarize themselves with simulation, just in case. Playing on a
>> simulator is a lot more fun than sitting in a recliner pining for
>> unattainable experience in a real aircraft.
>
> I think most pilots are familiar with flight sims, although in my
> experience much of their knowledge-base is pretty out-dated, being
> based on what flight simulator could do years (or even decades) ago.
> Many real pilots are quite amazed at what our Kiwi can do.
> --
Bull****. I use state of the art stuff and it's still just a toy.


Bertie
>

[Mxsmanic]

Jay Honeck writes:

> For the older guys who are now unable to fly "for real",
> it's something of a moot point. For them, it's all there is.

Alas, older guys are not the only ones who cannot fly for real.

> I would not trade my first solo flight for any amount of money. It
> was a magical mixture of joy, excitement, personal satisfaction, and
> wonder that could never be duplicated or replaced. Even if I had
> never flown again, all the time, money and effort I had invested would
> have made that 30-minute flight worthwhile.

So the hours of real flight after that weren't as good? And you _would_ be
able to trade those subsequent hours for a suitable amount of simulation?

> Discovery flights (at least in America) are cheap. You really owe it
> to yourself to just take a single flight lesson -- it can be a life-
> changing event.

I've investigated flying in France a bit further, and the more I learn, the
worse it looks.

> I think most pilots are familiar with flight sims, although in my
> experience much of their knowledge-base is pretty out-dated, being
> based on what flight simulator could do years (or even decades) ago.
> Many real pilots are quite amazed at what our Kiwi can do.

That is my impression also.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Jay Honeck writes:
>
>> For the older guys who are now unable to fly "for real",
>> it's something of a moot point. For them, it's all there is.
>
> Alas, older guys are not the only ones who cannot fly for real.


More than you can do

>
>> I would not trade my first solo flight for any amount of money. It
>> was a magical mixture of joy, excitement, personal satisfaction, and
>> wonder that could never be duplicated or replaced. Even if I had
>> never flown again, all the time, money and effort I had invested
>> would have made that 30-minute flight worthwhile.
>
> So the hours of real flight after that weren't as good?


You're an idiot.



>
> I've investigated flying in France a bit further, and the more I
> learn, the worse it looks.


They wouldn;t have you and you wouldn't be able to do it anyway.

>
>> I think most pilots are familiar with flight sims, although in my
>> experience much of their knowledge-base is pretty out-dated, being
>> based on what flight simulator could do years (or even decades) ago.
>> Many real pilots are quite amazed at what our Kiwi can do.
>
> That is my impression also.
>

Yes, gleaned from your vast experience of jerking off.

Bertie

[Jay Honeck]

> > I would not trade my first solo flight for any amount of money. It
> > was a magical mixture of joy, excitement, personal satisfaction, and
> > wonder that could never be duplicated or replaced. Even if I had
> > never flown again, all the time, money and effort I had invested would
> > have made that 30-minute flight worthwhile.
>
> So the hours of real flight after that weren't as good? And you _would_ be
> able to trade those subsequent hours for a suitable amount of simulation?

Um, no -- that's not what I said.

I wouldn't trade a minute of real flying for an hour of sim time.
Every moment I can spend in actual flight is another minute in
heaven. (Or as close to it as one can get in this life...)

Remember, time spent aloft is *not* deducted from one's lifespan...

The same can't be said for sim time...

;-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Mxsmanic]

Nomen Nescio writes:

> Speaking strictly for myself....No, there has never been a moment
> of flying that has been quite as good as my first solo. There were many
> moments that were close. But no, never quite as good as the first time
> I sat at the end of the runway and pushed the throttle forward knowing that
> once I cleared the ground, nobody but ME was going to get that plane back
> down in one piece.
>
> Of course, you will never understand that, let alone experience it.

Yes, nobody _ever_ experiences a moment of independence except for pilots on
their first solo.

[Bertie the Bunyip[_19_]]

Mxsmanic > wrote in
:

> Nomen Nescio writes:
>
>> Speaking strictly for myself....No, there has never been a moment
>> of flying that has been quite as good as my first solo. There were
>> many moments that were close. But no, never quite as good as the
>> first time I sat at the end of the runway and pushed the throttle
>> forward knowing that once I cleared the ground, nobody but ME was
>> going to get that plane back down in one piece.
>>
>> Of course, you will never understand that, let alone experience it.
>
> Yes, nobody _ever_ experiences a moment of independence except for
> pilots on their first solo.


Oow, for you it will be the first time you go down the corner shop to buy
candy!


good luck with that, BTW, We're all rooting for you.


Bertie