LS3-A water bags

[[email protected]]

I want to remove the water bags in my LS3-A and check them for leaks.
The only hole I see at the wingtip is a 3/8 hole located on the bottom
about 2 or three inches from the tip. How do I get the bag out
without ruining the ability to get it back in?

Also, the seat belts have been in the ship since new. No tags on the
belts. They are in fair shape but I am replacing them anyway. My
question is, since these belts are original, and no TSO tags, how did
the annual get signed off every year? (I know how the annual got
signed off. 200 bucks and your done) But as owners of these
sailplanes we are legally responsible for the airworthiness of these
ships. How many of us are getting pencil-whipped anuals. Is this a
concern as the average age of the fleets is getting older? This may
be a beer-in-the bar discussion but I am curious as to who is getting
inspections done by an IA experienced in glass sailplanes or just
getting a quick sign off by the powered aircraft IA who works ourt of
the back of his truck?

Thanks
Mike Martin

[JJ Sinclair]

Well Mike, do you feel better now that you have bashed those who might
have the information you seek? I have answers to both of your
questions, but you won't getting them from me!
JJ Sinclair
Graduated from USAF A&E mechanic school, Shepard AFB, June 1952


On Dec 15, 5:27 am, wrote:
> I want to remove the water bags in my LS3-A and check them for leaks.
> The only hole I see at the wingtip is a 3/8 hole located on the bottom
> about 2 or three inches from the tip. How do I get the bag out
> without ruining the ability to get it back in?
>
> Also, the seat belts have been in the ship since new. No tags on the
> belts. They are in fair shape but I am replacing them anyway. My
> question is, since these belts are original, and no TSO tags, how did
> the annual get signed off every year? (I know how the annual got
> signed off. 200 bucks and your done) But as owners of these
> sailplanes we are legally responsible for the airworthiness of these
> ships. How many of us are getting pencil-whipped anuals. Is this a
> concern as the average age of the fleets is getting older? This may
> be a beer-in-the bar discussion but I am curious as to who is getting
> inspections done by an IA experienced in glass sailplanes or just
> getting a quick sign off by the powered aircraft IA who works ourt of
> the back of his truck?
>
> Thanks
> Mike Martin

[[email protected]]

On Dec 15, 7:18 am, JJ Sinclair > wrote:
> Well Mike, do you feel better now that you have bashed those who might
> have the information you seek? I have answers to both of your
> questions, but you won't getting them from me!
> JJ Sinclair
> Graduated from USAF A&E mechanic school, Shepard AFB, June 1952
>
> On Dec 15, 5:27 am, wrote:
>
>
>
> > I want to remove the water bags in my LS3-A and check them for leaks.
> > The only hole I see at the wingtip is a 3/8 hole located on the bottom
> > about 2 or three inches from the tip. How do I get the bag out
> > without ruining the ability to get it back in?
>
> > Also, the seat belts have been in the ship since new. No tags on the
> > belts. They are in fair shape but I am replacing them anyway. My
> > question is, since these belts are original, and no TSO tags, how did
> > the annual get signed off every year? (I know how the annual got
> > signed off. 200 bucks and your done) But as owners of these
> > sailplanes we are legally responsible for the airworthiness of these
> > ships. How many of us are getting pencil-whipped anuals. Is this a
> > concern as the average age of the fleets is getting older? This may
> > be a beer-in-the bar discussion but I am curious as to who is getting
> > inspections done by an IA experienced in glass sailplanes or just
> > getting a quick sign off by the powered aircraft IA who works ourt of
> > the back of his truck?
>
> > Thanks
> > Mike Martin- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

JJ,
My wife tells me that I have this ability to be to direct. The
internet seems to magnify this and what I. thought was an honset
question for discussion apparently offended you. I apoligize.

Your advise on this site has always been valuable. You have helped me
out on several other occasions. I would hate to lose that resource
because of my ill worded post to the internet. I hope you will change
your mind and help me out.

Mike Martin

[BT]

there are ways to do both..
ask the experienced sailplane mechanic to whom you paid for your last
annual.
BT

> wrote in message
...
>I want to remove the water bags in my LS3-A and check them for leaks.
> The only hole I see at the wingtip is a 3/8 hole located on the bottom
> about 2 or three inches from the tip. How do I get the bag out
> without ruining the ability to get it back in?
>
> Also, the seat belts have been in the ship since new. No tags on the
> belts. They are in fair shape but I am replacing them anyway. My
> question is, since these belts are original, and no TSO tags, how did
> the annual get signed off every year? (I know how the annual got
> signed off. 200 bucks and your done) But as owners of these
> sailplanes we are legally responsible for the airworthiness of these
> ships. How many of us are getting pencil-whipped anuals. Is this a
> concern as the average age of the fleets is getting older? This may
> be a beer-in-the bar discussion but I am curious as to who is getting
> inspections done by an IA experienced in glass sailplanes or just
> getting a quick sign off by the powered aircraft IA who works ourt of
> the back of his truck?
>
> Thanks
> Mike Martin

[01-- Zero One]

Mike,



The bags come out through the root end... not the tip.



Not terribly tricky... but you need to understand the whole system
before you start pulling them apart. And (WHATEVER YOU DO, BE SURE THAT
YOU DO NOT LET THE RETENTION CORD SLIP FROM THE PULLEY!!)



One way of checking them is to simply fill them with a few gallons of
water. However, leaks could be in a couple of different places instead
of the bags themselves. YMMV



Larry "01" Goddard

former LS3-a driver






" > wrote in message
:

> I want to remove the water bags in my LS3-A and check them for leaks.
> The only hole I see at the wingtip is a 3/8 hole located on the bottom
> about 2 or three inches from the tip. How do I get the bag out
> without ruining the ability to get it back in?
>
> Also, the seat belts have been in the ship since new. No tags on the
> belts. They are in fair shape but I am replacing them anyway. My
> question is, since these belts are original, and no TSO tags, how did
> the annual get signed off every year? (I know how the annual got
> signed off. 200 bucks and your done) But as owners of these
> sailplanes we are legally responsible for the airworthiness of these
> ships. How many of us are getting pencil-whipped anuals. Is this a
> concern as the average age of the fleets is getting older? This may
> be a beer-in-the bar discussion but I am curious as to who is getting
> inspections done by an IA experienced in glass sailplanes or just
> getting a quick sign off by the powered aircraft IA who works ourt of
> the back of his truck?
>
> Thanks
> Mike Martin

[Ian[_2_]]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:27:40 -0800, mmartin46 wrote:

> I want to remove the water bags in my LS3-A and check them for leaks.
> The only hole I see at the wingtip is a 3/8 hole located on the bottom
> about 2 or three inches from the tip. How do I get the bag out without
> ruining the ability to get it back in?

I have done this before:

1) Have a look at the manual. Also there is a works instruction from LS
on doing this. If possible get someone who has done it before to brief
you. Don't start before you know how it works inside.

2) There is a cord which goes from the end of the wingbag around a pulley
which is located inside the wing, near the tip, and back down the wing to
where it is tied, at the wing root. You need to untie this to get the bag
out, but as the bag comes out, the cord goes into the wing. If you let
the end of the cord disappear into the wing, you WILL need the services
of somebody with experience, ingenuity and skill of JJ to get the bag
back into the wing.

(The original cord, as installed by LS, is not long enough for the bag to
be removed without the end getting lost - so you have to extend it. Then
the joint between the original and the extension cord has to travel
around the pulley without getting jammed. All this is explained in the
manufacturers instructions).

3) There is a large diameter "nut" on the outlet pipe of the bag that you
have to loosen to get the bag out. You can only just get your hand into
the wing far enough to grip it and if it is tight you will never get
enough force on it to loosen it. We have a special tool that the previous
owner devised for loosening the nut.

Maybe you should join the LS owners forum on Yahoo groups. Many people
who have know how to do this are there.

Good Luck


Ian

[[email protected]]

On Dec 22, 2:17*pm, Ian > wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:27:40 -0800, mmartin46 wrote:
> > I want to remove the water bags in my LS3-A and check them for leaks.
> > The only hole I see at the wingtip is a 3/8 hole located on the bottom
> > about 2 or three inches from the tip. *How do I get the bag out without
> > ruining the ability to get it back in?
>
> I have done this before:
>
> 1) Have a look at the manual. Also there is a works instruction from LS
> on doing this. If possible get someone who has done it before to brief
> you. Don't start before you know how it works inside.
>
> 2) There is a cord which goes from the end of the wingbag around a pulley
> which is located inside the wing, near the tip, and back down the wing to
> where it is tied, at the wing root. You need to untie this to get the bag
> out, but as the bag comes out, the cord goes into the wing. If you let
> the end of the cord disappear into the wing, you WILL need the services
> of somebody with experience, ingenuity and skill of JJ to get the bag
> back into the wing.
>
> (The original cord, as installed by LS, is not long enough for the bag to
> be removed without the end getting lost - so you have to extend it. Then
> the joint between the original and the extension cord has to travel
> around the pulley without getting jammed. All this is explained in the
> manufacturers instructions).
>
> 3) There is a large diameter "nut" on the outlet pipe of the bag that you
> have to loosen to get the bag out. You can only just get your hand into
> the wing far enough to grip it and if it is tight you will never get
> enough force on it to loosen it. We have a special tool that the previous
> owner devised for loosening the nut.
>
> Maybe you should join the LS owners forum on Yahoo groups. Many people
> who have know how to do this are there.
>
> Good Luck
>
> Ian


Thanks Ian and Larry,
I have a maintenance manual but it makes no mention of the water
bags. Your description helps clarify the installation. I will email
DG and see if they have a copy of the service insturction you
mentioned.

I tried combing the yahoo groups and could not find any LS groups. If
you know of one could you you post it here?

Thanks and Merry Christmas
Mike

[01-- Zero One]

Mike, try .



Good luck,



Larry





" > wrote in message
:

> On Dec 22, 2:17 pm, Ian > wrote:
> > On Sat, 15 Dec 2007 05:27:40 -0800, mmartin46 wrote:
> > > I want to remove the water bags in my LS3-A and check them for leaks.
> > > The only hole I see at the wingtip is a 3/8 hole located on the bottom
> > > about 2 or three inches from the tip. How do I get the bag out without
> > > ruining the ability to get it back in?
> >
> > I have done this before:
> >
> > 1) Have a look at the manual. Also there is a works instruction from LS
> > on doing this. If possible get someone who has done it before to brief
> > you. Don't start before you know how it works inside.
> >
> > 2) There is a cord which goes from the end of the wingbag around a pulley
> > which is located inside the wing, near the tip, and back down the wing to
> > where it is tied, at the wing root. You need to untie this to get the bag
> > out, but as the bag comes out, the cord goes into the wing. If you let
> > the end of the cord disappear into the wing, you WILL need the services
> > of somebody with experience, ingenuity and skill of JJ to get the bag
> > back into the wing.
> >
> > (The original cord, as installed by LS, is not long enough for the bag to
> > be removed without the end getting lost - so you have to extend it. Then
> > the joint between the original and the extension cord has to travel
> > around the pulley without getting jammed. All this is explained in the
> > manufacturers instructions).
> >
> > 3) There is a large diameter "nut" on the outlet pipe of the bag that you
> > have to loosen to get the bag out. You can only just get your hand into
> > the wing far enough to grip it and if it is tight you will never get
> > enough force on it to loosen it. We have a special tool that the previous
> > owner devised for loosening the nut.
> >
> > Maybe you should join the LS owners forum on Yahoo groups. Many people
> > who have know how to do this are there.
> >
> > Good Luck
> >
> > Ian
>
>
> Thanks Ian and Larry,
> I have a maintenance manual but it makes no mention of the water
> bags. Your description helps clarify the installation. I will email
> DG and see if they have a copy of the service insturction you
> mentioned.
>
> I tried combing the yahoo groups and could not find any LS groups. If
> you know of one could you you post it here?
>
> Thanks and Merry Christmas
> Mike