Fuel price this winter

[M[_1_]]

Dead in the winter, and 100LL is averaging $4.63/gallon at airnav.com,
higher than this summer. This is a first.

I try to be optimistic about flying and all, but it increasingly looks
like we'll have an average $5.5/gal summer in 2008.

[Stealth Pilot[_2_]]

On Thu, 20 Dec 2007 22:06:04 -0800 (PST), M > wrote:

>
>Dead in the winter, and 100LL is averaging $4.63/gallon at airnav.com,
>higher than this summer. This is a first.
>
>I try to be optimistic about flying and all, but it increasingly looks
>like we'll have an average $5.5/gal summer in 2008.

it isnt a thousand dollars a litre.

ffs just go flying!
if you cant afford the fuel price then save up for it, get a second
job etc. good grief!

it costs what it costs. everything costs, thats a fundamental aspect
of an economy ffs.

did you enjoy the flying?
did you take time to sniff the roses?

Stealth Pilot

[Jay Honeck]

> In Germany 2,21 EUR/Liter (100LL)
> Makes about 12 USDollar/Gal
> Why do you complain?
> Curt

Bluntly and succinctly put, Curt, we complain because we don't want to
end up like Germany.

The first step toward correcting a problem is recognizing that it
exists. What you call "complaining" we call "constructive
criticism"...

;-)

Taxing an activity until it becomes nearly impossible, as your
government has done to flying, has traditionally been verboten in
America. Unfortunately, the anti-smoking crowd has paved the way for
a whole new series of "social engineering through taxation" measures
that threaten many aspects of American life -- not just flying.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[kontiki]

Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> Taxing an activity until it becomes nearly impossible, as your
> government has done to flying, has traditionally been verboten in
> America. Unfortunately, the anti-smoking crowd has paved the way for
> a whole new series of "social engineering through taxation" measures
> that threaten many aspects of American life -- not just flying.

Well... you shouldn't be flying anyway Jay, it's too dangerous,
you might get hurt, and besides its causing global warming which
will destroy the planet and we are all going to die. You could
put your eye out.

[[email protected]]

On Dec 21, 6:49*am, kontiki > wrote:
> Jay Honeck wrote:
>
> > Taxing an activity until it becomes nearly impossible, as your
> > government has done to flying, has traditionally been verboten in
> > America. *Unfortunately, the anti-smoking crowd has paved the way for
> > a whole new series of "social engineering through taxation" measures
> > that threaten many aspects of American life -- not just flying.
>
> Well... you shouldn't be flying anyway Jay, it's too dangerous,
> you might get hurt, and besides its causing global warming which
> will destroy the planet and we are all going to die. You could
> put your eye out.

Only if he runs with scissors.. :<)..

Happy holidays kids.

Ben

[Jay Honeck]

> Well... you shouldn't be flying anyway Jay, it's too dangerous,
> you might get hurt, and besides its causing global warming which
> will destroy the planet and we are all going to die. You could
> put your eye out.

I am thankful that you are paying my government to look out for me.
Heck, just look at all they've done for me! They've convinced me to
quit smoking (21 years and counting), prevented me from buying an
electric car, incented me to shop outside of my local area, and made
it incredibly difficult to own a small business.

What more could I ask?

:-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[[email protected]]

On Dec 20, 10:06*pm, M > wrote:
> Dead in the winter, and 100LL is averaging $4.63/gallon at airnav.com,
> higher than this summer. *This is a first.
>
> I try to be optimistic about flying and all, but it increasingly looks
> like we'll have an average $5.5/gal summer in 2008.

Maybe take a look at soaring? Unpowered sailplanes are really cheap to
fly if there's lift. Back in 1994, I had one three day soaring trip at
Truckee, CA (a great soaring location admittedly), when I belonged to
a club, that cost me $90 for three tows (one per day, at $30 each) and
$10 for two nights lodging -- in the bunkhouse, with a sleeping bag.
The ship was no additional cost since I belonged to a club (then about
$70/month dues) and, during the week, I could reserve it for three
days at a time. Weekends are another matter. Today, I'd expect those
numbers are roughly double, but still way below what it costs to fly a
power plane.

Admittedly, there are some problems with getting from point A to point
B in a glider, but for the sheer fun of just being one with the air,
nothing beats it, especially if cost is an issue. If you want to get
places, maybe consider a motor glider. Since 1995, I have flown one
and burn less fuel going places than if I drove. Admittedly the
maintenance is a lot more than on a pure glider, where there's almost
nothing to go wrong, but no worse than a typical Cessna or Piper, and
probably better.

Soaring is not for everyone, or every use, but it is something that
more power pilots ought to consider. If you want to find a soaring
site, take a look at the SSA (Soaring Society of America) website's
"finder"

http://www.ssa.org/sport/wheretofly.asp

or check around in your local area as some may not be listed on the
above site.

Every power pilot I've spoken with who also has flown gliders agrees
that it makes you a better pilot. Among other things, if you should
ever lose your engine, there's no substitute for having done real dead
stick landings and seeing that they really can work, and the inability
to do a go around is a luxury, not a necessity.

Hoping this helps some people.

Martin

[Mike Noel]

Jay, I think you've picked on the wrong 'crowd' . The 'crowd' responsible
for high fuel prices has been blocking conservation measures like higher
CAFE standards that would have helped the demand side of the supply/demand
cost equation.
The same crowd gets a lot of their personal wealth from high fuel prices.
--
Best Regards,
Mike

http://photoshow.comcast.net/mikenoel


"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
...
>> In Germany 2,21 EUR/Liter (100LL)
>> Makes about 12 USDollar/Gal
>> Why do you complain?
>> Curt
>
> Bluntly and succinctly put, Curt, we complain because we don't want to
> end up like Germany.
>
> The first step toward correcting a problem is recognizing that it
> exists. What you call "complaining" we call "constructive
> criticism"...
>
> ;-)
>
> Taxing an activity until it becomes nearly impossible, as your
> government has done to flying, has traditionally been verboten in
> America. Unfortunately, the anti-smoking crowd has paved the way for
> a whole new series of "social engineering through taxation" measures
> that threaten many aspects of American life -- not just flying.
> --
> Jay Honeck
> Iowa City, IA
> Pathfinder N56993
> www.AlexisParkInn.com
> "Your Aviation Destination"

[Jim Logajan]

wrote:
....
> Soaring is not for everyone, or every use, but it is something that
> more power pilots ought to consider. If you want to find a soaring
> site, take a look at the SSA (Soaring Society of America) website's
> "finder"
>
> http://www.ssa.org/sport/wheretofly.asp
....
>
> Hoping this helps some people.

Helps me.

> Martin
>

Are you the Martin Hellman of the famous Diffie-Hellman-Merkle key exchange
protocol for public key encryption? If so - great to see you reading this
group! (I've physically met Ralph Merkle at a couple nanotechnology
conferences a few years ago, though only briefly. I understand you (or your
namesake! (sorry for the Lisp-looking remarks)) were the one who suggested
the change in name to the protocol to recognize his influence and
contribution.)

[[email protected]]

On Dec 21, 12:06 am, M > wrote:
> Dead in the winter, and 100LL is averaging $4.63/gallon at airnav.com,
> higher than this summer. This is a first.
>
> I try to be optimistic about flying and all, but it increasingly looks
> like we'll have an average $5.5/gal summer in 2008.

Prince Bandar can be expected to ratchet down prices for the 2008
election, maybe even an "Osama" capture to goose the faithful GOP
voters...JG

[Matt W. Barrow]

"Mike Noel" > wrote in message
. ..
> Jay, I think you've picked on the wrong 'crowd' . The 'crowd' responsible
> for high fuel prices has been blocking conservation measures like higher
> CAFE standards that would have helped the demand side of the
> supply/demand cost equation.

And would kill several thousand. But, hey...what's a few thousand kids, huh?

> The same crowd gets a lot of their personal wealth from high fuel prices.

And the other crowd gets a lot of their wealth by mooching as crisis mongers
and group-think pimps.

How about the groups that derives $BILLIONS for environuts, that keep
production down to 1970's levels...

Nah, can't have people living their own lives when the jackbooted thugs
comes marching under an environmental banner.

Scum bags.

[BT]

We are running about $4.05 this winter, it was as high at 4.17 last month.
Auto gas has also dropped from a high of $3.13 and is now $2.97
BT

"M" > wrote in message
...
>
> Dead in the winter, and 100LL is averaging $4.63/gallon at airnav.com,
> higher than this summer. This is a first.
>
> I try to be optimistic about flying and all, but it increasingly looks
> like we'll have an average $5.5/gal summer in 2008.

[Jay Honeck]

> Auto gas has also dropped from a high of $3.13 and is now $2.97

Same here.

Even though oil prices are MUCH higher now, gas prices are still
dropping. IMHO this is pretty good evidence that our troubles last
year really *were* caused by a drop in refining capacity.

(If I recall, one of the main refineries in the US was down for
maintenance last year, causing the spike in prices.)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

[Matt W. Barrow]

"Jay Honeck" > wrote in message
...
>> Auto gas has also dropped from a high of $3.13 and is now $2.97
>
> Same here.
>
> Even though oil prices are MUCH higher now, gas prices are still
> dropping. IMHO this is pretty good evidence that our troubles last
> year really *were* caused by a drop in refining capacity.
>
> (If I recall, one of the main refineries in the US was down for
> maintenance last year, causing the spike in prices.)

More like three, four or five (IMS), including a couple that were a couple
years behind on maintenance.

[kontiki]

Matt W. Barrow wrote:
>>
>> (If I recall, one of the main refineries in the US was down for
>> maintenance last year, causing the spike in prices.)
>
> More like three, four or five (IMS), including a couple that were a couple
> years behind on maintenance.
>

And there are now only two refineries left in the US that are capable
of making Avgas.

[Matt W. Barrow]

"kontiki" > wrote in message
...
> Matt W. Barrow wrote:
>>>
>>> (If I recall, one of the main refineries in the US was down for
>>> maintenance last year, causing the spike in prices.)
>>
>> More like three, four or five (IMS), including a couple that were a
>> couple years behind on maintenance.
>
> And there are now only two refineries left in the US that are capable
> of making Avgas.

And no source of the lead required for 100LL.

(Here cometh the folks who burn autogas.)

[M[_1_]]

On Dec 22, 1:58 pm, "Matt W. Barrow" >
wrote:

> > And there are now only two refineries left in the US that are capable
> > of making Avgas.
>
> And no source of the lead required for 100LL.
>
> (Here cometh the folks who burn autogas.)


Looks like China is still making them cheaply:

http://buy.ecplaza.net/search/1s1nf20sell/tetraethyl_lead_tetra_ethyl_lead.html

Anyone wants to stock up a 55 gallon drum of tetraethyl lead? Here's
your chance!