Gliding GP - terrific!

[Dan G]

I've just finished watching the final day's live coverage and I must
say it was terrific. The air-to-air and in-cockpit shots all worked as
advertised and the 3D graphics were very good, whether it was watching
Kawa in his Diana 2 creeping away from his rivals on the last leg to
win overall or seeing Pete Harvey outrun everyone to claim a day win.

One particularly interesting moment was seeing Bruce Taylor get low
while pushing for the lead - when they used to the graphics to see his
glide angle to the finish there were lots of "ooohs" and "aaahs" from
the first-rate commentary team, and indeed he did land-out filmed live
from a helicopter, poor bloke!

The GP format is far more exciting to watch than conventional
competitions. The final race was short - only 150 km or so due to the
late clearance of a front - but the race was surprisingly dynamic and
very watchable.


Dan

[Paul Remde]

Hi,

I enjoyed watching it as well.

The highpoint for me was when Uli Schwenk got far out ahead on Day 4 and
then got low and did a low save. He ended up in 2nd for that day.

I really enjoyed watching it live!

Paul Remde

"Dan G" > wrote in message
...
> I've just finished watching the final day's live coverage and I must
> say it was terrific. The air-to-air and in-cockpit shots all worked as
> advertised and the 3D graphics were very good, whether it was watching
> Kawa in his Diana 2 creeping away from his rivals on the last leg to
> win overall or seeing Pete Harvey outrun everyone to claim a day win.
>
> One particularly interesting moment was seeing Bruce Taylor get low
> while pushing for the lead - when they used to the graphics to see his
> glide angle to the finish there were lots of "ooohs" and "aaahs" from
> the first-rate commentary team, and indeed he did land-out filmed live
> from a helicopter, poor bloke!
>
> The GP format is far more exciting to watch than conventional
> competitions. The final race was short - only 150 km or so due to the
> late clearance of a front - but the race was surprisingly dynamic and
> very watchable.
>
>
> Dan

[Tim Taylor]

On Dec 23, 10:00 pm, Dan G > wrote:
> I've just finished watching the final day's live coverage and I must
> say it was terrific. ....
>
> Dan

I would like to second Dan's comments. The coverage improved everyday
and the last two days have been fantastic. To be able to see the
tactics and choices during the flight and to have a true sense of time
is fantastic.

After watching the shotgun start I am wondering how that would work in
a 50 or 60 glider contest. It would be fun to try in a regional at
least.

Again, congratulation to the FAI World GP Gliding Championship team
for putting a fantastic viewer spectacle together.

Tim

[Andreas Maurer[_1_]]

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:13:31 -0800 (PST), Tim Taylor
> wrote:


>Again, congratulation to the FAI World GP Gliding Championship team
>for putting a fantastic viewer spectacle together.

I have to admit that I cannot agree at all.

The first mention of this GP in German newspapers were articles after
Herbert's accident. Nearly all the major newspapers in Germany had
huge artilces about his accident.

In my local newspaper the GP got a complete, promotion-free page. Two
articles, each mentioning how dangerous gliding is, listing all the
people killed by gliding in the last 20 years.
Over and over again.

Definitely the mother of all PR disasters. Couldn't have been worse.



Bye
Andreas

[Paul Remde]

Hi Andreas,

I don't think the format of the contest (Grand Prix vs. a more standard
contest or even vs. general mountain soaring) had anything to do with the
accident. Soaring is dangerous. Accidents do unfortunately happen.
Mountain flying is dangerous too. But it is much more fun than spending
life on the ground.

Fly safe,

Paul Remde

"Andreas Maurer" > wrote in message
...
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:13:31 -0800 (PST), Tim Taylor
> > wrote:
>
>
>>Again, congratulation to the FAI World GP Gliding Championship team
>>for putting a fantastic viewer spectacle together.
>
> I have to admit that I cannot agree at all.
>
> The first mention of this GP in German newspapers were articles after
> Herbert's accident. Nearly all the major newspapers in Germany had
> huge artilces about his accident.
>
> In my local newspaper the GP got a complete, promotion-free page. Two
> articles, each mentioning how dangerous gliding is, listing all the
> people killed by gliding in the last 20 years.
> Over and over again.
>
> Definitely the mother of all PR disasters. Couldn't have been worse.
>
>
>
> Bye
> Andreas

[Jim[_13_]]

Dan G wrote:
> I've just finished watching the final day's live coverage and I must
> say it was terrific. The air-to-air and in-cockpit shots all worked as
> advertised and the 3D graphics were very good, whether it was watching
> Kawa in his Diana 2 creeping away from his rivals on the last leg to
> win overall or seeing Pete Harvey outrun everyone to claim a day win.
>
> One particularly interesting moment was seeing Bruce Taylor get low
> while pushing for the lead - when they used to the graphics to see his
> glide angle to the finish there were lots of "ooohs" and "aaahs" from
> the first-rate commentary team, and indeed he did land-out filmed live
> from a helicopter, poor bloke!
>
> The GP format is far more exciting to watch than conventional
> competitions. The final race was short - only 150 km or so due to the
> late clearance of a front - but the race was surprisingly dynamic and
> very watchable.
>
>
> Dan
Is there a web site where the coverage can be viewed? The Gliding Grand
Prix web site seems only to have information on last year's GP.

[Tim Taylor]

On Dec 24, 9:49 am, Jim > wrote:
> Dan G wrote:
> > I've just finished watching the final day's live coverage and I must
> > say it was terrific. The air-to-air and in-cockpit shots all worked as
> > advertised and the 3D graphics were very good, whether it was watching
> > Kawa in his Diana 2 creeping away from his rivals on the last leg to
> > win overall or seeing Pete Harvey outrun everyone to claim a day win.
>
> > One particularly interesting moment was seeing Bruce Taylor get low
> > while pushing for the lead - when they used to the graphics to see his
> > glide angle to the finish there were lots of "ooohs" and "aaahs" from
> > the first-rate commentary team, and indeed he did land-out filmed live
> > from a helicopter, poor bloke!
>
> > The GP format is far more exciting to watch than conventional
> > competitions. The final race was short - only 150 km or so due to the
> > late clearance of a front - but the race was surprisingly dynamic and
> > very watchable.
>
> > Dan
>
> Is there a web site where the coverage can be viewed? The Gliding Grand
> Prix web site seems only to have information on last year's GP.

The GP website: http://www.gpgliding.com/

The site with the Video: http://video.airsportslive.com/

[Tim Taylor]

On Dec 24, 7:24 am, Andreas Maurer > wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:13:31 -0800 (PST), Tim Taylor
>
> > wrote:
> >Again, congratulation to the FAI World GP Gliding Championship team
> >for putting a fantastic viewer spectacle together.
>
> I have to admit that I cannot agree at all.
>
> The first mention of this GP in German newspapers were articles after
> Herbert's accident. Nearly all the major newspapers in Germany had
> huge artilces about his accident.
>
> In my local newspaper the GP got a complete, promotion-free page. Two
> articles, each mentioning how dangerous gliding is, listing all the
> people killed by gliding in the last 20 years.
> Over and over again.
>
> Definitely the mother of all PR disasters. Couldn't have been worse.
>
> Bye
> Andreas

Andreas,

We are all saddened by the loss of Herbert Weiss during the contest,
but to blame the contest for his death is irrational. We all accept
the risk every time we fly or race. Should we end F1 racing or any
other sport where participants can die?

What we are saying is the new form of coverage with a shotgun start,
live gps tracking, in plane cameras and helicopter camera ship made
this a spectator sport for the first time. The ability for us to
watch it live all around the world and the future made for television
productions as well as the DVD will add to interest to the sport
overall.

Imagine day 4 without this type of coverage. We would have seen that
Bruce Taylor had won, but would have never seen the drama of Uli
Schwenk's great flight that had a lead of over 25 km at one point.
His save from only a few hundred feet to finish second for the day was
spectacular and heartbreaking at the same time. Even more telling was
the ability to have interviews live as the pilots got out of the
cockpit. Uli admitting that he had gotten very low and didn't want to
do that again.

The GP team is to be commended for pushing the edge of technology to
make our sport accessible to others in a new way. I can someday see
sailplane racing playing on a cable sports channel just as we see
other races. Where are Jeep and Nissan as sponsors for the Extreme
Sailplane Racing Series? I think it may happen one day.

[[email protected]]

Hi Tim - Tim McAllister here at the GP in Omarama:

This format of racing has real promise to revolutionize how our sport
is viewed in the wider media world.

PLUS, it is VERY fun to fly.

BTW - If anyone out there is interested in helping organize GP races
in the U.S., I would love to act as an advisor, consultant or even cd/
cm. Feel free to contact me through a reply to this email or through
my blog at www.echoyankee.com. I'll be back inthe states in about a
week and will get back to anyone after I am home.

However, back to your original point, many more than 15-20 gliders
using a single start line at one time would be way too dangerous.

Having flown three Gp events now (1st World Sailplane GP St. Auban,
Qualifier at Drakino Russia, 1st FAI GP World Championships here at
Omarama), I am probably the most experienced US Pilot in this format.
The "regatta" start line works as long as all pilots are very
professional and adhere to the rules. This was shown to spectacular
effect here at Omarama where I did not hear about or witness any
dangerous flying or discourteous conduct the entire week. Of course we
had some of the best pilots in the world here so the formation flying
was quite spectacular at times (think Blue Angels but 20 of them). But
the format is not to blame for Herbert's death in any way at all.

On to bringing this format to the U.S.. While a 50-60 ship "shotgun"
start would be a fools game, I could see a format where you break a
contest down into multiple heats of 10-20 gliders and run a sort of
ladder for the week's contest. By "ladder" I mean the top 5 in each
"heat" would then race against the top five from the other heats the
next day. Maybe add a "repechage" heat for the "losers" to advance
into a finals against he top pilots from the early heats. Then have a
B final for the rest at the end of the week.

Or maybe you use multiple start lines with multiple heats. Or anything
else that is safe and promotes good, close racing.
The GP Concept as written into the FAI GP Rules is jut a starting
point for some potentially very fun and exciting racing.

But for any of this to come to the USA, US glider pilots and the
contest community as a whole (organizers, SSA, etc.) needs to embrace
the concept and realize it is a new, dynamic form of glider race that
is growing by leaps and bounds in in Europe and around the world.
Unfortunately, the US is lagging behind in this new glider racing
format.

I hope to help change this state of affairs.

Tim McAllister EY

On Dec 24, 6:13 pm, Tim Taylor > wrote:
> On Dec 23, 10:00 pm, Dan G > wrote:
>
> > I've just finished watching the final day's live coverage and I must
> > say it was terrific. ....
>
> > Dan
>
> I would like to second Dan's comments. The coverage improved everyday
> and the last two days have been fantastic. To be able to see the
> tactics and choices during the flight and to have a true sense of time
> is fantastic.
>
> After watching the shotgun start I am wondering how that would work in
> a 50 or 60 glider contest. It would be fun to try in a regional at
> least.
>
> Again, congratulation to the FAI World GP Gliding Championship team
> for putting a fantastic viewer spectacle together.
>
> Tim

[Marc Ramsey[_2_]]

wrote:
> Having flown three Gp events now (1st World Sailplane GP St. Auban,
> Qualifier at Drakino Russia, 1st FAI GP World Championships here at
> Omarama), I am probably the most experienced US Pilot in this format.
> The "regatta" start line works as long as all pilots are very
> professional and adhere to the rules.

I hate to break this to you, but there have been six Grand Prix format
multi-lap races run at Truckee over the past three seasons, complete
with regatta start, tracking system, and spectators.

Regatta start (8 to 12 starters so far):

http://www.soartruckee.com/images/TAGARS/TAGARs_V2_start.jpg

High tech real-time tracking system:

http://www.soartruckee.com/images/TAGARS/Squadron_of_gliders.jpg

I'm sure you'd be welcome to participate, despite your lower experience
level 8^)

Marc

[[email protected]]

On Dec 24, 2:47 pm, Marc Ramsey > wrote:
> wrote:
> > Having flown three Gp events now (1st World Sailplane GP St. Auban,
> > Qualifier at Drakino Russia, 1st FAI GP World Championships here at
> > Omarama), I am probably the most experienced US Pilot in this format.
> > The "regatta" start line works as long as all pilots are very
> > professional and adhere to the rules.
>
> I hate to break this to you, but there have been six Grand Prix format
> multi-lap races run at Truckee over the past three seasons, complete
> with regatta start, tracking system, and spectators.
>
> Regatta start (8 to 12 starters so far):
>
> http://www.soartruckee.com/images/TAGARS/TAGARs_V2_start.jpg
>
> High tech real-time tracking system:
>
> http://www.soartruckee.com/images/TAGARS/Squadron_of_gliders.jpg
>
> I'm sure you'd be welcome to participate, despite your lower experience
> level 8^)
>
> Marc

Here we go again....lack of tact, lack of discipline, bickering and
arrogance.....I am still puzzled by why is this happening here in the
US....someone has a good intention and you decided to trash that
person (again).

Jacek

[Marc Ramsey[_2_]]

wrote:
> On Dec 24, 2:47 pm, Marc Ramsey > wrote:
>> wrote:
>>> Having flown three Gp events now (1st World Sailplane GP St. Auban,
>>> Qualifier at Drakino Russia, 1st FAI GP World Championships here at
>>> Omarama), I am probably the most experienced US Pilot in this format.
>>> The "regatta" start line works as long as all pilots are very
>>> professional and adhere to the rules.
>> I hate to break this to you, but there have been six Grand Prix format
>> multi-lap races run at Truckee over the past three seasons, complete
>> with regatta start, tracking system, and spectators.
>>
>> Regatta start (8 to 12 starters so far):
>>
>> http://www.soartruckee.com/images/TAGARS/TAGARs_V2_start.jpg
>>
>> High tech real-time tracking system:
>>
>> http://www.soartruckee.com/images/TAGARS/Squadron_of_gliders.jpg
>>
>> I'm sure you'd be welcome to participate, despite your lower experience
>> level 8^)
>>
>> Marc
>
> Here we go again....lack of tact, lack of discipline, bickering and
> arrogance.....I am still puzzled by why is this happening here in the
> US....someone has a good intention and you decided to trash that
> person (again).

Lacking a sense of humor, are we?

Marc

[Kloudy via AviationKB.com]

wrote:
>
>Here we go again....lack of tact, lack of discipline, bickering and
>arrogance.....I am still puzzled by why is this happening here in the
>US....someone has a good intention and you decided to trash that
>person (again).
>
>Jacek


I really thought Marc was being sarcastic.

Did you see their Hi-Tech tracking system...whoooo..impressive.

--
Message posted via AviationKB.com
http://www.aviationkb.com/Uwe/Forums.aspx/soaring/200712/1

[Marc Ramsey[_2_]]

Kloudy via AviationKB.com wrote:
> wrote:
>> Here we go again....lack of tact, lack of discipline, bickering and
>> arrogance.....I am still puzzled by why is this happening here in the
>> US....someone has a good intention and you decided to trash that
>> person (again).
>>
>> Jacek
>
>
> I really thought Marc was being sarcastic.
>
> Did you see their Hi-Tech tracking system...whoooo..impressive.
>

In fact, I wasn't being all that sarcastic, just throwing some humor at
the notion that GP format racing necessarily requires multi-million
dollar budgets and highly skilled pilots. In fact, the Truckee races
have shown that these events can be safe, fun, and spectator friendly
with essentially no budget at all.

I was peripherally involved in one (failed) attempt at running a GP
Qualifying race here in the US. Frankly, I think the realities of
geography, scheduling, and soaring community population density conspire
against doing so in the US during the summer soaring season.

I think a series of US regional GP races leading to a national
qualifying races (with the expectation that the majority of the pilots
would be from the US) would have a better chance of working...

Marc

[[email protected]]

On Dec 26, 11:35 am, Marc Ramsey > wrote:
> Kloudy via AviationKB.com wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> Here we go again....lack of tact, lack of discipline, bickering and
> >> arrogance.....I am still puzzled by why is this happening here in the
> >> US....someone has a good intention and you decided to trash that
> >> person (again).
>
> >> Jacek
>
> > I really thought Marc was being sarcastic.
>
> > Did you see their Hi-Tech tracking system...whoooo..impressive.
>
> In fact, I wasn't being all that sarcastic, just throwing some humor at
> the notion that GP format racing necessarily requires multi-million
> dollar budgets and highly skilled pilots. In fact, the Truckee races
> have shown that these events can be safe, fun, and spectator friendly
> with essentially no budget at all.
>
> I was peripherally involved in one (failed) attempt at running a GP
> Qualifying race here in the US. Frankly, I think the realities of
> geography, scheduling, and soaring community population density conspire
> against doing so in the US during the summer soaring season.
>
> I think a series of US regional GP races leading to a national
> qualifying races (with the expectation that the majority of the pilots
> would be from the US) would have a better chance of working...
>
> Marc

Now, here you go Marc....this is a constructive input....that is, I
think, good response.

Jacek
Pasco, WA

[Marc Ramsey[_2_]]

wrote:
> Now, here you go Marc....this is a constructive input....that is, I
> think, good response.

Jacek, I have a standard response to that type of comment, but since it
is the holiday season, I'll let it pass 8^)

Marc

[Dan G]

On Dec 26, 7:35*pm, Marc Ramsey > wrote:
> Kloudy via AviationKB.com wrote:
> > wrote:
> >> Here we go again....lack of tact, lack of discipline, bickering and
> >> arrogance.....I am still puzzled by why is this happening here in the
> >> US....someone has a good intention and you decided to trash that
> >> person (again).
>
> >> Jacek
>
> > I really thought Marc was being sarcastic.
>
> > Did you see their Hi-Tech tracking system...whoooo..impressive.
>
> In fact, I wasn't being all that sarcastic, just throwing some humor at
> the notion that GP format racing necessarily requires multi-million
> dollar budgets and highly skilled pilots. *In fact, the Truckee races
> have shown that these events can be safe, fun, and spectator friendly
> with essentially no budget at all.

Can I just say that I *totally* got Marc's post? I laughed out loud
when I saw the "tracking system", I really did :-).

> I think a series of US regional GP races leading to a national
> qualifying races (with the expectation that the majority of the pilots
> would be from the US) would have a better chance of working...

I've been thinking about how the format could work elsewhere, and came
up with the same idea. I really think Tim and a few other do'ers
should get together and make it happen.

One point though: it should be professional (or at least look it),
like the NZ championships. That's what sponsors and media partners
will buy into. Not kids toys, fun as they are :-).


Dan