Flying in Germany

[Bob Fry]

http://jimsladesairlines.com/beil.html

I've known Harmut from many years ago when he was flying his Ercoupe
from the Bay Area. He returned to Germany a few years ago and wrote
this report from his native land on the differences between US and
German GA.
--
Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really
easy way; stop participating in it.
~ Noam Chomsky

[[email protected]]

> I've known Harmut from many years ago when he was flying his Ercoupe
> from the Bay Area. *He returned to Germany a few years ago and wrote
> this report from his native land on the differences between US and
> German GA.

That interesting. I lived in Berlin for a year or so. I'm not
surprised at the level of regulation or the fact that German law in
practice trusts "foreigners" more than Germans. The once Nazi country
can't be seen as being unwelcoming to non Germans.

[[email protected]]

Pretty interesting, didn't realize the rules are so bizarre in
Germany. AOPA would probably love to publish this.. with the dollar so
weak, it would be a steal for Europeans and others to come to the US
for flight training.

On Dec 25, 7:02 am, Bob Fry > wrote:
> http://jimsladesairlines.com/beil.html
>
> I've known Harmut from many years ago when he was flying his Ercoupe
> from the Bay Area. He returned to Germany a few years ago and wrote
> this report from his native land on the differences between US and
> German GA.
> --
> Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really
> easy way; stop participating in it.
> ~ Noam Chomsky

[Martin Hotze[_2_]]

schrieb:
> Pretty interesting, didn't realize the rules are so bizarre in
> Germany.

this is not only true for Germany.

> AOPA would probably love to publish this.. with the dollar so
> weak, it would be a steal for Europeans

It was already cheaper back then when the dollar was pretty expensive.

> and others to come to the US for flight training.

I know more than 10 people personally who *did* that back then (myself
included [1]) but excluded this country for a couple of years now for
further visits (not only for flying but also for leisure/pleasure).

I know only 2 guys personally who visited in resent years. One was there
for a type rating. It was OK, but he felt not really (hmm, what is the
correct word for this situation?) happy anymore - compared to his
earlier visits. The other one had to visit for business purpose (he is a
university professor in chemistry) and he had some bizzare experiences
and stories to tell.

#m

[1] I did it in 2002 (and earlier, too). Whith the money I spent then
I'd today fly probably double the hours.

[Jim Logajan]

Wolfgang Schwanke > wrote:
> Bottom line: Most of the facts are correct, but his viewpoint is very
> "American" and not very flexible. He makes it sound as if flying here
> is extremely hard or difficult to achive and as if the rules were a
> nightmare. Fact is that it's quite affordable and comparatively easy if
> you set your mind to it, and the rules (of which some are quite silly I
> agree) aren't really such a nuisance, and can be avoided if you know
> how to.

Interesting to see the different viewpoints - appreciated.

I suppose one way to compare affordability and ease of acquiring a license
or certificate is to compare the fraction of population that have acquired
them. For the U.S. I believe about 1 in 500 people have a pilot certificate
(~0.2%). (The FAA published stats on number of active certificate holders
on its web site.) Are there numbers available for other countries like
Germany?

[Stefan]

Jim Logajan schrieb:

> I suppose one way to compare affordability and ease of acquiring a license
> or certificate is to compare the fraction of population that have acquired
> them. For the U.S. I believe about 1 in 500 people have a pilot certificate
> (~0.2%). (The FAA published stats on number of active certificate holders
> on its web site.) Are there numbers available for other countries like
> Germany?

I don't know the number, but whatever it is, it doesn't tell much. Or,
it rather tells much about the different interests. Face it, most people
in Germany are interested in different things than most people in the
USA. E.g. soccer is probably the most popular sport in Germany, while
baseball is pretty much inexistant. Or, to stay with aviation: While
there may be less power pilots in Germany than in the USA, there are
many more glider pilots, probably even by the rough number, but
certainly by the percentage of the population. For most Germans, private
flying is just a sport and not a means of transport, for many reasons
other than money or regulation.

[Bob Fry]

>>>>> "WS" == Wolfgang Schwanke > writes:

WS> Haven't I been reading complaints about restricted flying
WS> around Washington DC here, and some whatchumacallit military
WS> zones that crop up in the US in all sorts of places?

Surely. I myself was caught in one of these "pop-up" Temporary Flight
Restrictions (TFRs) almost 2 years ago...only because our Vice,
Cheney, dropped in for a day to raise campaign money. These so-called
VIP TFRs are most annoying. Other TFRs, like for fires or other
disasters, make sense and can often be inferred while flying. For a while
Bush wanted to criminalize TFR violations! But that was shot down.
Only 13 more months of our own Nazi regime.
--
Do not mind anything that anyone tells you about anyone else. Judge
everyone and everything for yourself.
~ Henry James

[Thomas Borchert]

Wolfgang,

> Private pilots here simply don't do it, because the costs of acquiring
> and maintaining an IFR licence are prohibitive.
>

Uhm, objection! Getting the IR is very expensive. Maintaining it isn't.
Not by a long shot. That's because there is simply no difference in cost
for VFR and IFR flying below 2 tonnes MTOW. If you fly a sensible amount
of hours per year to remain VFR current, you'll be able to do the same
IFR. If, OTOH, you fly ultralights which cannot do IFR, that's another
story.

> but with some of the
> newer designs you're actually faster and more comfortable than some of
> the "real" pilots.
>

Except, you can't fly IFR which, depending on pilot attitude, might lead
to much riskier "scud running" flying.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)