Cleveland...Or Tost?

[Paul Hanson]

A Happy New Year to All! I am thinking about getting
a hydraulic disc conversion wheel/brake for my SZD-59.
I have not heard anything bad about Cleveland setups,
and have not anything bad the Tost equivalents either.
Both setups can/have been done. Both being about the
same price (read expensive), and both the same amount
of work to install, naturally I want the better of
the two. I hope this is not a religious war subject,
I just want to hear more opinions and I know there
are a few of those here...

Paul Hanson
"Do the usual, unusually well"--Len Niemi

[[email protected]]

On Jan 3, 10:35*am, Paul Hanson
> wrote:
> A Happy New Year to All! I am thinking about getting
> a hydraulic disc conversion wheel/brake for my SZD-59.
> I have not heard anything bad about Cleveland setups,
> and have not anything bad the Tost equivalents either.
> Both setups can/have been done. Both being about the
> same price (read expensive), and both the same amount
> of work to install, naturally I want the better of
> the two. I hope this is not a religious war subject,
> I just want to hear more opinions and I know there
> are a few of those here...
>
> Paul Hanson
> "Do the usual, unusually well"--Len Niemi

If you want it to stop Cleveland.

Al

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 3, 11:35*am, Paul Hanson
> I just want to hear more opinions and I know there
> are a few of those here...

I'd start by asking which brand current new sailplanes use.
Schleicher seems to have gone with Cleveland (ASW-28).

I'd also ask about price and availability of consumables. In 5 years
I have never needed to do anything to the brake on my 28 but I think
the Cleveland brake pads are easy to get.

It would be hard to fault the 28 brake. It's powerful, progressive,
does not drag, and needs no maintenance.

Andy

[[email protected]]

What Al said.

Cleveland brake is reliable, parts are readily available and braking
power is unsurpassed. I believe everything AS-W since the -20B came
with 500x5 Cleveland and I retrofitted one to my AS-W12 as well.

[Tim Mara]

after reading many of the responses to your message, typically never 100%
correct, what most don't realize is that most of the TOST Hydraulic brake
systems are, and most of the system parts used by the glider manufacturers
supplied to them by TOST are in fact......"Cleveland" Brake parts.....only
with some modifications by TOST, usually to change the fluid type to(DOT 4
brake fluid rather tan Hydraulic fluid)...What TOST has done has assemble
the brakes along with the brake components to make up the kit that is used
on gliders.
see my website page for some available kits on
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page32.htm
tim

Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com


"Paul Hanson" > wrote in message
...
>A Happy New Year to All! I am thinking about getting
> a hydraulic disc conversion wheel/brake for my SZD-59.
> I have not heard anything bad about Cleveland setups,
> and have not anything bad the Tost equivalents either.
> Both setups can/have been done. Both being about the
> same price (read expensive), and both the same amount
> of work to install, naturally I want the better of
> the two. I hope this is not a religious war subject,
> I just want to hear more opinions and I know there
> are a few of those here...
>
> Paul Hanson
> "Do the usual, unusually well"--Len Niemi
>
>

[Peter Thomas]

relining my 5' Tost drum brake shoes with a modern
compound(eg vintage motocycle racing) worked for me
(£25 and a friend sized them)

Pete

At 18:37 03 January 2008, Paul Hanson wrote:
>A Happy New Year to All! I am thinking about getting
>a hydraulic disc conversion wheel/brake for my SZD-59.
>I have not heard anything bad about Cleveland setups,
>and have not anything bad the Tost equivalents either.
>Both setups can/have been done. Both being about the
>same price (read expensive), and both the same amount
>of work to install, naturally I want the better of
>the two. I hope this is not a religious war subject,
>I just want to hear more opinions and I know there
>are a few of those here...
>
>Paul Hanson
>'Do the usual, unusually well'--Len Niemi
>
>
>

[hans]

Schempp-Hirth and Lange offer now the Beringer brakes
http://www.beringer.fr/



Paul Hanson schrieb:
> A Happy New Year to All! I am thinking about getting
> a hydraulic disc conversion wheel/brake for my SZD-59.
> I have not heard anything bad about Cleveland setups,
> and have not anything bad the Tost equivalents either.
> Both setups can/have been done. Both being about the
> same price (read expensive), and both the same amount
> of work to install, naturally I want the better of
> the two. I hope this is not a religious war subject,
> I just want to hear more opinions and I know there
> are a few of those here...
>
> Paul Hanson
> "Do the usual, unusually well"--Len Niemi
>
>

[bumper]

For use with Mil Spec 5606 fluid (the red petroleum based fluid that is
standard for small aircraft in the US), the O-rings and seals are normally
Buna-N rubber. If the Cleveland brake parts have been modified by Tost to
use DOT brake fluid, they do this by changing the O-rings and seals to EPDM
rubber to make them compatible with automotive DOT brake fluid. Stemme uses
such modified Cleveland calipers and DOT fluid in the S10-VT. Schleicher
uses unmodified Cleveland calipers and 5605 fluid in the ASH26E (and I
assume all their current gliders).

While automotive DOT fluids have advantages for high temperature braking
applications, the fluid attacks many paints, is hygroscopic, and thus will
sometimes promote corrosion in brake systems not specifically designed for
it (i.e. early Cleveland calipers and pucks with bare aluminum, as opposed
to anodized, will often corrode and cause fluid leakage at the seals. Some
automotive restorers will line the caliper bore with brass sleeves and
anodize the pucks to restore these corroded brake components.

For glider and small aircraft brakes, I prefer 5605 fluid.

bumper
zz
Minden NV
Quiet Vents and MKII high tech yaw strings






"Tim Mara" > wrote in message
...
> after reading many of the responses to your message, typically never 100%
> correct, what most don't realize is that most of the TOST Hydraulic brake
> systems are, and most of the system parts used by the glider manufacturers
> supplied to them by TOST are in fact......"Cleveland" Brake parts.....only
> with some modifications by TOST, usually to change the fluid type to(DOT 4
> brake fluid rather tan Hydraulic fluid)...What TOST has done has assemble
> the brakes along with the brake components to make up the kit that is used
> on gliders.
> see my website page for some available kits on
> http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page32.htm
> tim
>
> Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com
>
>
> "Paul Hanson" > wrote in
> message ...
>>A Happy New Year to All! I am thinking about getting
>> a hydraulic disc conversion wheel/brake for my SZD-59.
>> I have not heard anything bad about Cleveland setups,
>> and have not anything bad the Tost equivalents either.
>> Both setups can/have been done. Both being about the
>> same price (read expensive), and both the same amount
>> of work to install, naturally I want the better of
>> the two. I hope this is not a religious war subject,
>> I just want to hear more opinions and I know there
>> are a few of those here...
>>
>> Paul Hanson
>> "Do the usual, unusually well"--Len Niemi
>>
>>
>
>

[Andy[_1_]]

On Jan 3, 2:14*pm, "Tim Mara" > wrote:
> with some modifications by TOST, usually to change the fluid type to(DOT 4
> brake fluid rather tan Hydraulic fluid)...

Why did Tost find it necessary to change the fluid type and is that
change approved by Cleveland?

Andy

[[email protected]]

On Jan 3, 6:42 pm, hans > wrote:
> Schempp-Hirth and Lange offer now the Beringer brakeshttp://www.beringer.fr/

Thanks Hans for pointing this out. The Beringer is the best setup
I've had on any sailplane - light, great stopping power, beautifully
made. That said, it is a fair bit of work to replace an existing wheel
brake assembly.

If it was so easy to engineer, you wouldn't need to replace yours...

Hope that's helpful !
Best Regards, Dave "YO"

[Greg Arnold]

wrote:
> On Jan 3, 6:42 pm, hans > wrote:
>> Schempp-Hirth and Lange offer now the Beringer brakeshttp://www.beringer.fr/
>
> Thanks Hans for pointing this out. The Beringer is the best setup
> I've had on any sailplane - light, great stopping power, beautifully
> made. That said, it is a fair bit of work to replace an existing wheel
> brake assembly.
>
> If it was so easy to engineer, you wouldn't need to replace yours...
>
> Hope that's helpful !
> Best Regards, Dave "YO"


Photos of the new HpH 304S suggest it also has the Beringer brake.

The Beringer design does appear to better protected against rocks,
runway edges, etc. than the Cleveland brake.

[Albert Gold[_3_]]

wrote:

> What Al said.
>
> Cleveland brake is reliable, parts are readily available and braking
> power is unsurpassed. I believe everything AS-W since the -20B came
> with 500x5 Cleveland and I retrofitted one to my AS-W12 as well.

[Albert Gold[_3_]]

After reading Tim's post my partners and I are seriously considering
installing a Tost kit on our 1979 Twin Astir (the original retractable).
Has anyone out there installed one of these kits on any ship ? On a
Twin Astir? Hearing about your experience both with installation and
performance would be very helpful. Would you recommend having an A&E do
the job, or can it be handled by enthusiastic amateurs?

Thanks,

Al
Tim Mara wrote:
> after reading many of the responses to your message, typically never 100%
> correct, what most don't realize is that most of the TOST Hydraulic brake
> systems are, and most of the system parts used by the glider manufacturers
> supplied to them by TOST are in fact......"Cleveland" Brake parts.....only
> with some modifications by TOST, usually to change the fluid type to(DOT 4
> brake fluid rather tan Hydraulic fluid)...What TOST has done has assemble
> the brakes along with the brake components to make up the kit that is used
> on gliders.
> see my website page for some available kits on
> http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page32.htm
> tim
>
> Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com
>
>
> "Paul Hanson" > wrote in message
> ...
>
>>A Happy New Year to All! I am thinking about getting
>>a hydraulic disc conversion wheel/brake for my SZD-59.
>>I have not heard anything bad about Cleveland setups,
>>and have not anything bad the Tost equivalents either.
>>Both setups can/have been done. Both being about the
>>same price (read expensive), and both the same amount
>>of work to install, naturally I want the better of
>>the two. I hope this is not a religious war subject,
>>I just want to hear more opinions and I know there
>>are a few of those here...
>>
>>Paul Hanson
>>"Do the usual, unusually well"--Len Niemi
>>
>>
>
>
>